Oh well, as was said before, one of the biggest problems working on
something like this can be the watching and the waiting, but sometimes it
might
be worth the wait, and sometimes having a bit of luck thrown in along the
way can be quite handy too:-)
As mentioned earlier, I'd implemented
So that's it folks, after all this it would now seem that all that's
needed to enable a Ref-1 unit stand alone is to link together J5 pins 2, 10, 12,
and 15, and to ground pin 3 to pin 8, and then just hang around for hours
and hours on end with yer fingers crossed:-)
I don't know if it's
I have now tested 3 pairs of these units (full Z3810AS system), always
in pairs. One Z3811 box was DOA. It drew power at the appropriate
level, but the lights did not light up and there was no response on
the SatStat port. AECI quickly swapped it for a working unit, and
even paid return
The rapid clicking of slave clocks in schools was a design feature of IBM (and
later Simplex) clocks. The master clock sent out minute pulses to the slave
clocks for the first 50 minutes of each hour on the A side of the circuit.
Slave clocks operating on-time would automatically switch to the
Hi
Here’s a thought:
If you are going to “fit” a unit with a more modern GPS and translate it to
“Lucent speak”, are you better off simply starting with an outboard GPS?
The main GPS talks to the second box over the 15 pin connector. One would guess
that what comes over is a pretty
Time-Nutters--
I have been tempted to build a (hacked) wall clock
(after Lord Vetinari) that has an erratic second hand
that sometimes skips ticks and sometimes ticks
several times very rapidly but still keeps correct
time. I would love to put one of these up on a doctor's
patient waiting room
Hi
We’ve gone around on this one a few times. The group seem to divide into two
groups. One group suggests that anything other than perfect accuracy is not a
TimeNut subject. The other group seems to come up with “that’s neat … do it
this way”. Part of it seems to depend a bit on having read
Ooh err, whoops, and oh dear !!
Arthur, I've only just had a chance to look at your latest photos, and
unless I've really got my wires crossed, if you'll pardon the expression:-),
your links on J5 are not shown on pins 2, 10, 12, and 15, but on pins 4, 6,
11, and 13.
As far as I'm aware
Oh well, and perhaps not too surprisingly, the J5 pin 3 to ground option on
its own was not that much of a raging success.
However, the unit did eventually come up indicating Standby, and at that
point pulling out the pin 3 to ground link and inserting the previously
made up plug switched
Hi
Ok, we have a 15 pin connector, Pin 8 is the common ground between them.
Pins 1 - 7 cross over (in order) to pins 9-15.
PairEnd A End B
A 1 9
B 2 10
C 3 11
D
Hi
Well I for one am not getting at all bored at seeing what you are doing. I find
it very encouraging that somebody is sharing all the ins and outs of figuring
out what’s going on. Far to often we simply get the end result and not much
detail (I for one have been rightly criticized for that
Oh, ok, thanks for that, and thanks too for the further information on the
interface connector.
For now though, it's me back to sleep for a while:-)
Regards
Nigel
GM8PZR
In a message dated 02/11/2014 14:53:01 GMT Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org
writes:
Hi
Well I for one am not getting
I found that in the unit with the GPS, near U206, there are 3 resistor
not populated: the squared 10MHz is present, so if resistor are added
and the capacitor (I presume some 100pF) you ruote the 10MHz under the
GPS antenna connector. Resistor are 100OHM, as seen on the unit
without the GPS.
On
Hi
Be a bit careful there. 10 MHz times some nutty number comes up in the middle
of the GPS passband (harmonics are spaced 10 MHz apart …). The GPS module may
not be very happy with a CW jammer right on top of the signal it’s trying to
receive. The logic chips involved to have rise times
Pretty funny. As a ham radio operator I have had 4 clocks on the walls for
years.
I obtained 5 IBM clocks quite a while ago and built drivers and such for
them. Actually ran them for a while but found the noise annoying. Replaced
them with cheap wall clocks internal drivers removed and a master
I made one and replaced a normal wall clock at work. No-one really noticed
unless it was pointed out.
I got it from here:
www.akafugu.jp/posts/products/vetinariclock/
Out of stock at the moment though.
On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 5:59 AM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
We’ve gone around on
Hi
On Nov 2, 2014, at 4:42 AM, Stewart Cobb stewart.c...@gmail.com wrote:
I have now tested 3 pairs of these units (full Z3810AS system), always
in pairs. One Z3811 box was DOA. It drew power at the appropriate
level, but the lights did not light up and there was no response on
the
Charles, John and Bob,
Many thanks for your advices.
1) Charles Steinmetz wrote: I would suggest trying a few of the oscillators
again (no need to try them all), using the Isotemp OCXO as the time base for
the Pendulum by connecting it to the Pendulum's REF input and selecting
External
I am curious about which GPS and rev is used in these units. Could someone post
the response from :DIAG:IDEN:GPS? from one of these units?
Also, I'm curious if anyone has a Z38XX plot for one of these devices that has
been in operation for greater than 48 hours, I'm particuarly interested in
System has been fired up for about 48 hours and seems to have settled down a
bit by watching scope trace movement between Lucent and thunderbolt (has been
on for months).
I hooked up Lucent to input of 3586 (sync with thundebolt) and measured 15625
khz with spectrum lab for 8 hours - sample
Am 02.11.2014 15:08, :
Ooh err, whoops, and oh dear !!
Arthur, I've only just had a chance to look at your latest photos, and
unless I've really got my wires crossed, if you'll pardon the expression:-),
your links on J5 are not shown on pins 2, 10, 12, and 15, but on pins 4, 6,
11, and 13.
On Sunday, November 2, 2014, Mike Baker mp...@clanbaker.org wrote:
Time-Nutters--
I have been tempted to build a (hacked) wall clock
(after Lord Vetinari) that has an erratic second hand
that sometimes skips ticks and sometimes ticks
several times very rapidly but still keeps correct
time.
Hi Ed,
This was copied by hand between two units, so there may be minor typos.
COPYRIGHT 1991-1997 MOTOROLA INC. ,SFTW P/N # 98-P36848P,SOFTWARE VER # 2
,SOFTWARE REV # 2,SOFTWARE DATE APR 24 1998,MODEL # R5122U1152,HDWR
P/N # 5 ,SERIAL # R04RMW,MANUFACTUR DATE 9C19 ,
here you are:
COPYRIGHT 1991-1997 MOTOROLA INC.,SFTW P/N # 98-P36848P
,SOFTWARE VER # 2 ,SOFTWARE REV # 2 ,SOFTWARE
DATE APR 24 1998,MODEL #R5122U1152 ,HWDR P/N # 5
,SERIAL # R08FG1 ,MANUFACTUR DATE 0E05 ,
Götz
Am 02.11.2014 14:55, :
I am
Hi
Here’s one other little tidbit. The original mod notes from Arthur on all this
show:
“ Pin 4: High = 2.4V, low = 0, Stop flashing = 1.35V”
That’s exactly what you would expect to see if you are driving one side of a
RS-422 differential receiver. If pair D is one side of an RS-422, then the
Hi Ed
It's a Motorola Oncore UT plus R5122U1152, listed as one of their standard
versions with version 2.2 firmware.
A google search on motorola oncore tech note, with or without the quotes,
should bring up relevant data from TAPR and other sources.
I haven't had one running for very
Thanks to a fellow Time-Nut I order one of these yesterday. I had been
deleting the messages about some surplus widget. Should see it in a week so
will take advantage of every ones work to date. Thanks.
I did want to share an item with respect to batteries on the GPS engine.
I added 2 aa
Hi Gotz
That's great stuff, thank you, I'll try that later.
At this rate we'll soon be finding ways of doing this without any wiring
whatsoever, perhaps we could start with just standing it upside down in a
dark corner on the night of the full moon:-)
Regards
Nigel
GM8PZR
In a
Hi
No, once we get the GPS end worked out, we need to do the same thing for the
non-GPS end. If we can fake it into working with just a PPS, it’s the perfect
thing to use to attach an OCXO to a newer GPS (like the Jackson Labs part …).
Bob
On Nov 2, 2014, at 2:15 PM, GandalfG8--- via
Hi Bob,
There's also the option of the SSR-6Tr and adapter board from Synergy GPS. It
should plug right in. You'd need the Oncore compatible version. Kinda pricey
though.
Bob
From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org
To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Ah, I had wondered about that but was probably being a bit selfish as I
only have the GPS based units:-)
Given the similarity, I would assume where we've got to on these wouldn't
be a bad starting point, and at least identifying the 1PPS input on the
interface connector should be
Hi
It *might* plug in the GPS version. It also might report more sat’s than the
firmware expects and everything would quickly die. That’s certainly the case
with retrofitting some of the other early GPSDO’s. I think I’d rather play with
faking out non-GPS version.
Bob
On Nov 2, 2014, at
Hi
Yes, getting the GPS version worked out is certainly the thing most people will
be after. Doing the other box is a bit further down the road. The main thing
(to me) is documenting the 15 pin connector as best we can. That way whatever
somebody decides to do in the future, they have a good
By the way the z3801 is off most of the year so the drains quite small.
I think that's backwards. The battery is only used when there is no power to
the GPS module.
AAs are roughly 2800 mA hours. There are 8760 hours in a year. That's 319
microamp years. (How's that for a SI unit?) So
Given the expected close proximity of these units, presumably it was only
ever intended that they should work as a pair, and I remember Stu Cobb
commenting on how short the supplied link cable is, I wouldn't be too surprised
if there turns out to be no serial comms between the units but
Hi
The numbers quoted earlier (and they sound right) were 20 uA at 2.5V. That
would be well under your 100uA. My *guess* is that self discharge / aging on a
normal AA is going to limit things faster than a 20 uA drain.
Now, if you have the more normal tiny coin cell involved with 1/10 or
Hi
The supplied cable is indeed very short. It’s also quite stiff and a bit flakey
(intermittent). I would bet at least one cold order of fries that there is no
bi-directional serial between the two units. If there was, I doubt our little
pin shorting exercises would get things running.
If
Hi Bob
The UT+ data sheet from 1998 quotes an external backup supply of 2.5 to
5.35V with a drain of 5uA typical at 2.5 Volts.
Regards
Nigel
GM8PZR
In a message dated 02/11/2014 20:41:44 GMT Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org
writes:
Hi
The numbers quoted earlier (and they sound right)
On Sun, 2 Nov 2014 12:13:34 +0300, you wrote:
Mode has been switch from Frequency to TI - result is much better now. It was
the main improvement in my measurement. Thanks a lot!
Picture of ADEV OCXO result -
Just another thought though, does the diagnostic port on the slave also
communicate with SatStat etc?
That would imply at least a transfer of serial data in one direction, even
if not for the control functions.
Regards
Nigel
GM8PZR
In a message dated 02/11/2014 20:49:49 GMT Standard
Hi
So then the question becomes - What is the real cutoff voltage?
Your pair of AA’s will start off at 3.1V, but they will get to 2.5 long before
they are truly dead. Is the RAM gone at 2.5000 or 2.4 or “about 2 volts” ….
Bob
On Nov 2, 2014, at 3:54 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts
Hi
Good point. They could have GPS data simply to make the diag stuff happy, but
not use it for the disciplining side of things. I had not considered that
possibility.
Others have reported SatStat working on the slave, so there is at least *some*
data coming out that port.
Bob
On Nov 2,
Ah, just found an Engineering Note in my files that again quotes 5uA at
2.5V but also quotes 100uA at 5.0V, perhaps not too relevant at 3.1V but
that's quite an increase.
The same document quotes the following specs for the optional onboard
lithium battery...
Voltage -- 3V
Capacity --
See the link for the latest progress!
http://www.leapsecond.com/corby/maser/
Cheers,
Corby
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions
Hi
It’s those little onboard batteries that I have the experience with. After a
while, you are doing well to get a month out of them. Play for a bit longer and
they are down to a couple weeks. That’s not a surprising thing, the charging
circuit on some of this stuff is often less than perfect.
Hi
The fact that the plots are still going down (as 1/tau) past the 1.0x10^-13
point at 1,000 seconds is also a pretty good indication that it's not really
ADEV of an OCXO.
The 100 ps rated single shot accuracy of the counter would give you 1.0 x10^-10
at 1 second and a 1/tau slope.
Bob
Karen wrote:
Mode has been switch from Frequency to TI - result is much better
now. It was the main improvement in my measurement.
Your plot shows all traces starting at ~1e-9 at 0.1 second and
dropping almost ruler-straight at 10x per decade.
Any real crystal oscillator will flatten out
Hi
It’s been way too many years since my last Maser play session …
Will it fire up *without* the Teflon coating on the bulb? Yes it works *better*
with the Teflon (less wall interaction). Getting the bulb re-coated might be a
major pain. It does look ugly in it’s current state. I’m wondering
Such a clock would be regularly irregular in medical jargon. You could put
it in a cardiologist's waiting room where patients with rhythm disorders are
waiting but it might upset them :-)
Morris
--
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 08:48:09 -0500
From: Mike
On Sun, 2 Nov 2014 16:28:47 -0500
Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote:
It’s been way too many years since my last Maser play session …
Will it fire up *without* the Teflon coating on the bulb? Yes it works
*better* with the Teflon (less wall interaction). Getting the bulb
re-coated might be a
Good conversation
I am accurate in what I am saying about the z3801. Its off most of the time
so it is drawing against the the AA batteries most of the time. One more
note my bad, they are AAAs.
Like Bob says most likely self discharge and such will get them first. No
matter they get changed next
kb...@n1k.org said:
The numbers quoted earlier (and they sound right) were 20 uA at 2.5V. That
would be well under your 100uA. My *guess* is that self discharge / aging on
a normal AA is going to limit things faster than a 20 uA drain.
20 uA would last 15 years. (assuming no
Hi Attila,
On 11/02/2014 10:43 PM, Attila Kinali wrote:
On Sun, 2 Nov 2014 16:28:47 -0500
Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote:
It’s been way too many years since my last Maser play session …
Will it fire up *without* the Teflon coating on the bulb? Yes it works
*better* with the Teflon (less wall
If you are going to back up the clock with AA cells, use lithium primary AA
cells. They will last longer, plus they don't leak. EVERY alkaline cell will
eventually leak... they don't call 'em Alkaleaks for nuthin'
Hi
The 15 pin cable is:
PairEnd A End B
A 1 9
B 2 10
C 3 11
D 4 12
E 5 13
F 6
Hi
OK, it works better if it bounces off the wall. The line width is narrower.
Does it work at all (is there a line you can find) without the coating?
Yes you would need to find a paper from the 1960’s to find anybody trying to
run one that way.
Bob
On Nov 2, 2014, at 5:04 PM, Magnus
Hi
After spending some quality time with Mr. Google, I dug out some of the old UT+
information. The little beast does indeed forget everything it ever knew once
you loose battery / super cap / whatever backup power. You can force a
position, but it’s not persistent once you loose RAM.
If
Another mystery - what is on the three short pins? Usually that is done for
hot-plugging things and connects the ground first before the power is
applied. In this case, maybe it is some critical data lines that do not want
dirty signals? I will play some more later tonight.
Regards,
Tom
Thanks Gotz
2 and 3 grounded works fine for me too, although I still have one unit that
insists on flashing the ON light rather than bringing it on solid. In all
other respects both units seem to match. Two more should be arriving
sometime in the next couple of weeks so will see how they
Mode has been switch from Frequency to TI - result is much better now. It was
the main improvement in my measurement. Thanks a lot!
Picture of ADEV OCXO result -
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21338179/hamradio/OCXO_Adev/OCXO%
20ADEV%20TI%20mode%2020141102.jpg
If you're taking a
Hi
I bet (again the order of fries) that the ground on pin 13 that crosses to is
some sort of “other box plugged in” indicator.
So:
The 15 pin cable is:
PairEnd A End B
A 1 9
B 2 10
C
Hi
It looks like (for what ever reason) both of the pins we have called grounds
are short pins. The other short pin is a CMOS input that we use to fake the
slave present mode.
Bob
On Nov 2, 2014, at 5:36 PM, Tom Miller tmiller11...@verizon.net wrote:
Another mystery - what is on the three
Bob,
Yes, but your Q will suffer.
Yes, I've dug out *aged* papers. I was sad to see that JPLs server was
taken down before I got to download their wealth of papers. Naturally it
happen just after I found out it also had a hydrogen maser section, but
also Chuck's papers was lovely to have
Hi
On Nov 2, 2014, at 6:09 PM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org
wrote:
Bob,
Yes, but your Q will suffer.
Ok, so it might / might not work depending on how high a Q it needs to start
functioning. I think I might try it before I went crazy coating he bulb. There
will be a
It would seem that the hunt for 1PPS will need to be attempted by someone
with two units coupled together.
I don't know if there's some sort of handshake enablement but with just the
Ref-1 unit I've not been able so far to find 1PPS on the Interface
connector, either during the boot up
On 11/1/2014 6:03 PM, Hal Murray wrote:
dan-timen...@drown.org said:
I'm experimenting with using a temperature sensor to estimate local
oscillator frequency changes. My goal is to have a decent holdover clock
for a NTP server with not so great GPS antenna placement.
This is for ntpd rather
Bob,
On 11/03/2014 12:19 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
On Nov 2, 2014, at 6:09 PM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
Bob,
Yes, but your Q will suffer.
Ok, so it might / might not work depending on how high a Q it needs to start
functioning. I think I might try it before I went
On 11/2/14, 3:09 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
Bob,
Yes, but your Q will suffer.
Yes, I've dug out *aged* papers. I was sad to see that JPLs server was
taken down before I got to download their wealth of papers. Naturally it
happen just after I found out it also had a hydrogen maser section, but
Yes, but your Q will suffer.
Ok, so it might / might not work depending on how high a Q it needs to start
functioning. I think I might try it before I went crazy coating he bulb.
There will
be a *lot* of weird things to debug and associated tear downs to find them.
Having a fragile
Jim,
On 11/03/2014 12:42 AM, Jim Lux wrote:
On 11/2/14, 3:09 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
Bob,
Yes, but your Q will suffer.
Yes, I've dug out *aged* papers. I was sad to see that JPLs server was
taken down before I got to download their wealth of papers. Naturally it
happen just after I found
On 1 Nov 2014 16:50, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:
behind a scintillator)
The 40 GHz stuff these days is not nearly as exotic as it used to be. The
challenge might be test equipment when you're debugging your 40 GHz
synthesis chain.
There's a fair amount of test equipment around to 40.0
Yes the diagnostic port on the slave unit diaplay's gps data just like
the Z3811. Therefore there must be serial data being exchanged on the 15
pin interconnect.
Mike
N2LYM
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 15:58:20 -0500
From: gandal...@aol.com
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re:
Dave,
On 11/03/2014 01:29 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote:
On 1 Nov 2014 16:50, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:
behind a scintillator)
The 40 GHz stuff these days is not nearly as exotic as it used to be. The
challenge might be test equipment when you're debugging your
what power is need at 40GHz?
73
Alex
On 11/2/2014 4:44 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
Dave,
On 11/03/2014 01:29 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote:
On 1 Nov 2014 16:50, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:
behind a scintillator)
The 40 GHz stuff these days is not nearly as
HI John,
Did you ever resolve this?
I am curious if adjusting the VCXO to exactly 18,000,000 Hz
correctly shows the gain/loss of a watch?
I'm buying a MTG 1900 that has exactly the same VCXO
and the same adjustment
Cheers,
Ingo
___
time-nuts mailing
Hi
Well here’s some data to think about:
Pin GPS box Slave box
1 o.c.1.1 K
2 10 K10 K
3 1.1 K 1.1 K
4 1.1
Hi
On Nov 2, 2014, at 6:59 PM, John Miles j...@miles.io wrote:
Yes, but your Q will suffer.
Ok, so it might / might not work depending on how high a Q it needs to start
functioning. I think I might try it before I went crazy coating he bulb.
There will
be a *lot* of weird things to
HI
So at least there is one way communications from the GPS box to the slave box.
Bidirectional com would be a bit complex given the lack of UART’s on the pc
board. I’d bet it just runs through a standard set of messages on the GPS and
watches the results. The way to quickly prove I’m wrong
In retrospect, it looks like their teflon coating is even simpler
done. It looks like what they did is take very finely sectioned
teflon powder, and make a slurry in probably acetone.
They cleaned the vessel very well first with acetone and second,
probably a little distilled water to etch the
Hi
Here’s another way to look at the data:
pin pin res res
Pairfromto fromto
A 1 9 oc/1k 10k
B 2 10 10K
I respectfully disagree. Before getting totally submerged in time nuts
issues I did extensive work on signal sources up to 40 GHz as a hobby. So I
have since the early 90's sweeper, synthesizer, power meter, mixer for the HP
7 series, attenuates and most important frequency counter and
I would think that making the teflon coating would be pretty easy.
What I would try is to put a nichrome boat, and some teflon into the
vessel, and pull it down to a good vacuum. Then heat up the boat,
and the teflon should sublime, and condense on the walls of the
vessel.
The nichrome boat
Hi
On Nov 2, 2014, at 9:49 PM, Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com wrote:
In retrospect, it looks like their teflon coating is even simpler
done. It looks like what they did is take very finely sectioned
teflon powder, and make a slurry in probably acetone.
They cleaned the vessel very well
Hi Bob,
I am only able to communicate with my system through the REF-0/slave unit. I
had thought this was normal behavior till someone, you perhaps, posted that
that was not correct. So, I've emailed Aecis to request a replacement REF-1.
Bob From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org
To: Discussion of
I just recently got myself a HP 5334B universal counter and wanted to
communicate with it using my PC. I don't have any GPIB hardware but I found
GLExPIB (https://code.google.com/p/glexpib/source/checkout) that uses a
standard parport.
I hacked and modified the library slightly and wrote a simple
This reminds me of a similar MSDOS utility that I bought years ago for
talking to HPIB plotters via the parallel port. The software came with a
cable. At the time, it was much less expensive than buying a GPIB card.
Joe Gray
W5JG
On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 7:54 PM, Tom Wimmenhove
Does anyone know if Forth is the native tongue of these boards? I have yet to
fire my pair up.
Don
Bob Stewart
Hi Bob,
I am only able to communicate with my system through the REF-0/slave unit. I
had thought this was normal behavior till someone, you perhaps, posted that
that was not
87 matches
Mail list logo
