Title: DVD Review - Dirty War
Dirty War
Review by Guido
Henkel
Dirty
War(2004)HBO Home Video
Length: 90
mins.Rated:Not
RatedFormat: Anamorphic Widescreen ·
Talk about coming 'full circle'! DM 'read' MOC G
but, was unable to apprehend it.Let me go on to say that he is syntactically
capable. He is, IMO, along with many Evangelicals, in bondage to a 'system'.
This 'system' extends to their political beliefs along with the theological.
They do
Perhaps it is time I stuck my neck out and said
something.
I think Judy is closer to the truth on this one
than either David or JD, at least in terms of the severity of the human
condition. We are all born with the "disease" and therefore manifestits
symptoms, and it infects all aspects
I am not sure it is a disease that we are talking about. I do not see Adam and Eve as being any different in nature than myself or they would have never sinned. I have come to believe that the it is a mistake to think that God created them as perfected individuals. The Garden was never the goal.
JD wrote:
I have read B Valentine for years. Trust me.
You two do not agree.
I can't trust you on this, JD, because you have read me for years and you do
not understand me, so how can you tell whether Valentine and me agree on
this piece that you shared with us? Wouldn't you have to
JD wrote:
So, when I say that Judy argues for
an inheritance of sin, you agree?
Yes.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you
David Miller wrote:
Do you agree or disagree that we have
inherited our flesh from Adam?
Are we genetically related to Adam?
JD wrote:
I think my ex wife and her family
inherited Adsm's flesh.
So does that mean you do too, or are you just trying to be funny?
David Miller asks JD:
Do you
David Miller wrote:
Do you now understand what
legalistic grace is?
DAVEH:
Do you have a short explanation you
can share, DavidM?
Legalistic grace is reducing the concept of grace to doctrine and dogma. It
is basically the way John treats grace, as a legal get out of jail free
card. Our
Lance wrote:
DM 'read' MOC G but, was unable to apprehend
it. Let me go on to say that he is syntactically capable.
What about the Mediation of Christ do you think I was unable to apprehend?
Lance wrote:
They do with the Bible what Rush does with
sound bites and the text from newspapers.
I
Debbie wrote:
I do not believe Scripture teaches that we are
born innocent or oriented towards God. David,
your dualism obliges you to say that, since you
posit a separate spirit-entity specially created by
God, but I don't see support anywhere in Scripture
for our coming into the world
Terry wrote:
Was reading in Leviticus yesterday, chapter 25 if I
remember correctly. It was talking about the Jubilee
year and how things were supposed to be returned
and debts were to be forgiven and bond servants were
to be freed. In this chapter, it said that the Land was
never to
FYI, I agree with David's perspective on this completely. We are not born
guilty of sin, but with a fleshly bent towards sin. No one except Jesus has
lived sinlessly. I still wonder how He did it--so amazing.
Question for DM or Debbie, or anyone on TT. How would you define sin? izzy
David Miller wrote:
The quote from which JD takes his we have sinned
is yanked out of context to say something exclusive
of the context in which it was said.
JD wrote:
Part of the context of the first 7 chapters of Romans
is the theme that man is a sinner; a second theme is
GOD SAVES US
ShieldsFamily wrote:
FYI, I agree with David's perspective on this completely. We are not born
guilty of sin, but with a fleshly bent towards sin. No one except Jesus has
lived sinlessly. I still wonder how He did it--so amazing.
Question for DM or Debbie, or anyone on TT. How would you
- Original Message -
From: Hughes Jonathan
To: Lance Muir
Sent: August 17, 2005 12:38
Subject: RE: [BULK] Fw: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of
us
I agree that the garden was never the goal (the goal being
inclusion in the relationship of the Father, Son, and Spirit
In some respects/contexts, I do.
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: August 17, 2005 12:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
Lance wrote:
DM 'read' MOC G but, was unable to apprehend
it. Let me go
- Original Message -
From: Lance Muir
To: Hughes Jonathan
Sent: August 17, 2005 14:46
Subject: Fw: [BULK] Fw: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of
us
THIS, my literate, theologically informed
friend, is why you should be on TT. Some still fail to note that the
Terry, how do you know when you have missed the mark? izzy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 12:08 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
Wow. You and Jonathan remain out there
Lanceroo. And the hatred you impute to DM is purely projection on your part. izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005
12:47 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
I am using disease metaphorically to carry
the points (a) thatour sinfulnesscannot be reduced to wrong actions
but is a condition, and (b) that we are helpless to do anything about
it.These two points are related. Jonathan's word "organic" is probably a
better way to express this; I am
Lance Muir wrote:
-
Original Message -
From:
Hughes Jonathan
To: Lance Muir
Sent: August 17, 2005 12:38
Subject: RE: [BULK] Fw: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the
rest of us
I agree that the garden was
never the goal (the goal being inclusion in the
ShieldsFamily wrote:
Terry, how do you know when you have missed the mark? izzy
Two ways. The first,obviously, is read the Bible. The second is to
listen to your conscience. Ever since Adam ate, mankind has had a
Okay, I agree. But I guess my question is this: Can you write a sentence
defining what sin is??? izzy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:26 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re:
Our conscience can by no means be relied upon
toreveal good and evil. If it could, we would all have identical
consciences, but conscience varies from person to person and from society to
society in space and time. It is a social construct. By it we know only that we
do or do not measure up
ShieldsFamily wrote:
Okay, I agree. But I guess my question is this: Can you write a sentence
defining what sin is??? izzy
I can, but it is probably not the life changing information for which
you search.
1.Since God is angry with the sinner every day, sin is anything that
angers God.
this is exactly why I say you and Bobby Valentine do not agree. Contrary to popular belief, I understand your thinking on "grace" exactly as you have stated it in this post and an earlier post you wrote (today) to Debbie.
Gracethat saves is found in (eis) Christ. It is amatter ofrelationships
Jonathan said:
grasping for autonomy
I think this is the nub. We could add that instead of seeking autonomy we
might also willingly give ourselves over to some other god or power rather
than the Father.
Trying to identify and box in sinful acts misses the point about sin. I
think it also
Debbie wrote:
I would also agree, though, that humanity before
the fall was less than what we-in-Christ are and
will be.
The way I understand it, human life prior to the fall was characterized as
having:
1. No death.
2. No sickness or disease.
3. No influence of evil spirits of the air.
Ok, DM, let's get it right. Before I "accept Christ," I have this dualism that expresses itself in a conflict between good and evil.Evil finds a source for _expression_ within my very "flesh" (bones, bloodvessels, flat arches and the like) and reigns as victor untilI accept the invitation and
I don't want to make this all-important, David, but
I do want to respond and make sure Ihaven't misunderstood you.
You say that we are not born oriented towards God,
andthatwhen you were a child your spirit had no inclination towards
God until you were prodded by the Holy Spirit. Do you
Debbie wrote:
I just heard someone say that Christian perfection
is not success in avoiding sinful acts, it is having our
attention completely absorbed by Christ.
Hey, I like that! Very well said.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned
Lance wrote:
DM 'read' MOC G but, was unable to apprehend
it. Let me go on to say that he is syntactically capable.
David Miller asks:
What about the Mediation of Christ do you think
I was unable to apprehend?
It seemed like a rather straight forward and uncomplicated book to me.
Please
Debbie Sawczak wrote:
How do we know we are sinners? It
has been revealed to us by the only One who can reveal it.
Debbie
===
We know, because the Bible says "All have sinned".
-
Jonathan (and BT) both have had much to say on this issue in the past. Obviously, if they are correct, it hasn't sunk in on me. On line or privately -- I don't care -- but I would like to exchange some thoughts on this.
Quick question -- when we think of sininterms of do's and don'ts, in terms
If the nourishment you are receiving is not leading to
"obedience" then it is not from the "living Christ" JD
because they fit together like siamese twins.
jt
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 17:47:35 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
As time goes on, I grow more to manhood (if you will) because
I have neversaid otherwise.I would not say, howeer, that "they fit together." One (Christ) is the imperative of the other (obedience.)
JD-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:31:49
You can use the six million dollar words JD, but bottom
line is that he can not do it without us.
God is not into the "forcing" business and anyway noone
can be "forced" to love.
Since love fulfills the law and scripture defines sin
as lawlessness. Our job is tovoluntarily love
and when we
You think "imperative" is asix million dollar word? Let me put it another way - one commands the other. we are not saved by obedience but by His life . Of course weare partners withHim - I think the Bible calls it "fellowship of the Spirit."We are joint participants.BUT, He commands the obedience
Again -- I have included my understanding of yourposition.Where am I wrong? Perhaps you could rewrite my statement using the correct wording or ideas.
JD-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:02:24 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
ou will) because of the nourishment I receive from the living
Christ and NOT because of obedience. If that sounds like legalism to you, so be it. We all
have our moments of silliness.
JD
I'm not surewhere the problem lies. Yes, what
Christ accomplished deals with all the negatives, butgoes beyond that, and
I thought you said as much yourself in an earlier post (which I can't take the
time to find right now; you used our future judging of angels as an
example--remember?).
Ditto.
Debbie
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:38
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and
the rest of us
Someone like TF
Torrancewritingabout'The Mediation of Christ'
-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 13:41:42 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
David Miller wrote:
The quote from which JD takes his "we have sinned"
is yanked out of context to say
bullseye!
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:06:00 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
you exclude "for all have sinned" and the
concept that we alone are accountable for our situation
Nope. Theyknew instincitively. It is right there in the Ro 2 text. The SP were all home charging their bullhorn batteries.
JD-Original Message-From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 20:55:04 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin -
You mean the spirit of the law vs the letter of the
law? jt
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:16:08 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It is the difference between the Living Christ and the letter of the
law.
I can'tbelieve that you disagree. I don't know anyone
personally who denies this
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:45:11 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You think "imperative" is asix million dollar word? Let me put it another way -
one commands the other. we are not saved by obedience but by His life .Of
course weare partners withHim - I think the Bible
calls
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:06:00 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:You just made it
a major point, David the Scholar. You are self taught the last I
heard. I am not.Since you have decided to make your point while
putting me down - we will follow this through. By the
way - what was your PhD
To love truth for truth's sake is the principal part of human perfection in
this world, and the seed-plot of all other virtues. -John Locke,
philosopher (1632-1704)
--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
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