DAVEH: Michael, I've been so busy keeping up with Glenn, that I almost
overlooked your post! Though it is late, and I'm behind on
my work, I'll try to briefly answer your questions below.
Michael Douglas wrote:
Michael D: Dave H.,You
say that the Father created Jesus.
DAVEH: Yes. Do
Quote of the Day
"It isn't what you have, or who you are, or where you are, or what you
are doing that makes you happy or unhappy. It is what you think about."
- Dale Carnegie
--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
--
"Let your spee
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glenn
- I think you missed the point. The point is... Mormons claim how
simple the BoM is in explaining the Bible. This shows the BoM is
not plain and simple like Mormons claim.
DAVEH: Sure it is. Both Blaine and myself even explained it
to you to make it simpler to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I
have explained to you in the past what Biblical belief is. I guess
you don't understand since you wrote below. This makes me wonder
(not sure) if you are trully saved.
DAVEH: Why you would wonder about that, I'm not sure. "I
have explained to you in the past what
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glenn
- You didn't take the whole sentence. Notice the last line which
I underlined for your convenience.
DAVEH: Sometimes I read between the lines!
Anyone
who would continue to make the claim Mormonism is not divided, after the
historical evidence is presented, th
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My
good friend, since you don't have much time, how about dropping the paradigm
stuff and just answer the questions. Most are very simple and can
be answered yes or no.
DAVEH: You sound like a pharisee trying to trick the Lord!
It is impossible to answer a quest
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Right,
however I don't hold a test of heaven or hell, over silence of the scripture
like you do.
DAVEH: I'm not sure what you are getting at with that comment.
For
example, the Bible is silent on the baptism of infants. I don't believe
in infant baptism, BUT I
DAVEH: Glenn..you are driving me nuts trying to figure out who
you are speaking to. Is this post meant for me??? In the future,
will you please preface your remarks with some notation as to who you wish
to respond.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I
believe Jesus while on earth was both God and ma
DAVEH: Yikes..You guys are way beyond me on this. What
are you talking about??? What do you think we are keeping secret?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Whatever
they know, it seems they want to keep it secret among themselves.
10/3 g:
What do they
know about it?
On Thu, 3 Oct
2002 22:00:24 EDT [
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Wrong.
BoM has divided many Mormons on many doctrinal issues.
DAVEH: OK Glenn..I'll biteWhich "doctrinal
issues" are you referring to?
I
contend that virtually all BofM factions are not divided on doctrines such
as this that have confused traditional "Christi
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks
for the answers.
DAVEH: You are welcome!
I
believe if Jesus is God he is not created.
DAVEH: I believe Jesus is the son of his/our Father in Heaven.
If
Jesus was created Jesus is not God.
DAVEH: I respectfully disagree. Cannot God create another God?
Both
David Miller wrote:
> DaveH wrote:
> > ... there seem to be many Protestant factions who
> > are divided over this issue [baptism]. Why are they
> > divided? Because the Bible lacks explicit information
> > regarding it, and then men have concocted their own
> > doctrines and theories in p
DAVEH: Thanx for your detailed explanation, DavidM. That helps a lot. You didn't
say which camp you sleep incare to comment? And..care to comment about how
literally you believe Jesus is the "Son of man"? Thanx in advance. (BTW.I'll be
out of town for the next few days.)
Davi
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That
is not the question does Jesus equal Christ. Jesus is the Christ,
one in the same.
DAVEH: I agree, and my answer to G did answer his comment.
"*what happened to Jesus(?)--it's obvious that Mormonism like Satan
in defiance of Scripture wants nothing to do with fai
Does anyone have any understanding as to the question, "Does this maintain that intermarriage and cohabitation between angels and human beings took place?"
Glenn wrote:
> I've told you this before. If it CAN be taken
> literal it MUST be taken literal.
DAVEH wrote:
> Is your above reasoning a commonly accepted method
> of understanding the Bible amongst other Protestants?
> Andis it accepted amongst Bible scholars? Oris
> this just your pe
DaveH wrote:
> ... there seem to be many Protestant factions who
> are divided over this issue [baptism]. Why are they
> divided? Because the Bible lacks explicit information
> regarding it, and then men have concocted their own
> doctrines and theories in place of what is missing from
> the B
Glenn wrote:
> He is according to John 1:1 equal to God.
> He is not the brother of anyone. He is God.
"For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one:
for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren." (Heb. 2:11)
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
"L
In a message dated 10/3/2002 9:17:32 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
DAVEH: I'm sorry to jump into your conversation with Blaine, Laura..but I'm really curious as to who you think created Lucifer?
Satan is a fallen angel and a deceiver. You are being deceived by Satan
Thanks for the answers. I believe if Jesus is God he is not created. If Jesus was created Jesus is not God. Both cannot be true in my mind. He is according to John 1:1 equal to God. He is not the brother of anyone. He is God. This is why I wonder if Mormons believe in the same Jesus as I do.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When
you refuse to answer a question yes or not, it sends up the red flag.
This
is an easy question.
DAVEH: But you made it extremely hard when you added "half-brother".
I still don't know what that means, and you don't seem to want to explain
it. So why should I ans
Wrong. BoM has divided many Mormons on many doctrinal issues.
I contend that virtually all BofM factions are not divided on doctrines such as this that have confused traditional "Christian churches" but are explained in detail in the BofM.
Whatever they know, it seems they want to keep it secret among themselves.
10/3 g:
What do they know about it?
On Thu, 3 Oct 2002 22:00:24 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
..if you are wrong, Gary, then a Mormon will tell us
I think you are pulling the "switch-a-rue" because you did not answer my question. You just asked another question. I am not interested in another question, until I have this one answered. Is Jesus the half-brother of Satan? Is Jesus the brother of Satan? Is Jesus God. THE QUESTION WAS NOT, I
I believe Jesus while on earth was both God and man. I think this is pretty much common belief among evangelical Christians. What do you believe about this?
Now I understand from you, you don't have a firm belief on whether Jesus had many wives or not. Correct? But remember, the Bible is not si
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glenn
- You are pulling the "switch-a-rue" here again. The facts are Mormons
disagree with Jesus on hell fire.
I
am more and more inclined to believe the Mormon Jesus is not the Biblical
Jesus as I can't even get a yes or no on the question; is Jesus the half-brother
o
10/3
g:
What do they
know about it?
On Thu, 3 Oct 2002 22:00:24 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
..if you are
wrong, Gary, then a Mormon will tell
us
Right,
however I don't hold a test of heaven or hell, over silence of the scripture like you do. For example, the Bible is silent on the baptism of infants. I don't believe in infant baptism, BUT I don't believe people are under the influence of Satan because they baptize infants. THAT I
My good friend, since you don't have much time, how about dropping the paradigm stuff and just answer the questions. Most are very simple and can be answered yes or no.
For example, if you ask me if I believe Jesus had many wives I could answer with one word, no. When you can't give me s
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just
because (maybe I don't know and I don't think you have studied what the
136 different Mormon divisions believe) Mormonism is not divided over infant
baptism does not mean they are not divided over many other matters.
David M pointed some of them out.
Again
this i
This is not a difficult tricky question. It seems to me, if you are wrong, Gary, then a Mormon will tell us. John 1:1. "In the beginning was the Christ, Christ was with God, and Christ was God."
10/3 g:
the 'Christ' Mormons follow is not JC/God himself>>
On Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:34:25 EDT [EM
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Of
course I am asking you to speculate! Mormonism is built on speculation
not revelation.
DAVEH: Again, you completely misunderstand. Our knowledge comes
from revelation. Speculation may be fun, but you have a way of beating
a soul over the head with it.
Seriously,
<<10/3 g:
the 'Christ' Mormons follow is
not JC/God himself>>
On Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:34:25 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
...
DOES JESUS EQUAL GOD?
LONDON (Oct. 3) - Drum roll, please - an online search for the world's
funniest joke has produced a winner.
In a year-long experiment called LaughLab, a British psychology professor
asked thousands of people around the world to rate the humor value of a list
of jokes; they could also add thei
Of course I am asking you to speculate! Mormonism is built on speculation not revelation. Seriously, I am asking you to tell me if you believe Jesus had many wives?
AGAIN, I can't get answers.
Glenn - Do DaveL, believe Jesus had many wives?
DAVEH: How can I answer, Glenn...the Bible is sile
Just because (maybe I don't know and I don't think you have studied what the 136 different Mormon divisions believe) Mormonism is not divided over infant baptism does not mean they are not divided over many other matters. David M pointed some of them out.
Again this is a "switch-a-rue" here. NO
Glenn - You are pulling the "switch-a-rue" here again. The facts are Mormons disagree with Jesus on hell fire.
I am more and more inclined to believe the Mormon Jesus is not the Biblical Jesus as I can't even get a yes or no on the question; is Jesus the half-brother of Satan?
I get both no an
When you refuse to answer a question yes or not, it sends up the red flag.
This is an easy question.
You seem to be saying below that this is true. I have a hard time reading spin. Drop the half stuff then, is Jesus the brother of Satan? Is Jesus the cousin of Satan? Is Jesus God? John 1:
That is not the question does Jesus equal Christ. Jesus is the Christ, one in the same. THE QUESTION IS: DOES JESUS EQUAL GOD?
PS. This is an easy question.
ttxpress - Does Jesus equal God?
DAVEH: I respectfully disagree with your conclusion, G. If you think the "Christ" I follow is not
On Thu, 3 Oct 2002 07:55:35 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Does Jesus
equal God?
DAVEH: I respectfully disagree with your
conclusion, G. If you think the "Christ" I follow is not the "Jesus"
you are referring to, then I don't know what else to say to you.I think
David Miller wrote:
>> The Book of Mormon is apparently difficult
>> to understand, especially in this place, and has
>> led us to different interpretations regarding its
>> meaning.
DAVEH:
> As I've said before, if you don't understand LDS theology,
> just ask and I'll explain how I understand i
You my friend. :-) Blainer tells me off and tells me I am going to the place Divas went too. That is until you being the "be nice" spin. Then he reverses his statement.
So the answer to my question is yes. This is like the Church of Christ. This is a form of brainwashing. It is know
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glenn
- Do DaveL, believe Jesus had many wives?
DAVEH: How can I answer, Glenn...the Bible is silent on that,
isn't it? Or.are you asking me to speculate?
2.
Jesus Christ had many wives.
DAVEH:
There have been some LDS folks who have believed such and som
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > Michael D: That's interesting. You are saying that we were all angels at
> > one time and subsequently took on flesh. What authoratative LDS scripture
> > references confirm this, if any...
>
>I'm still an angel! LOL Laura
Michael D: I'm sure that you a
Michael D: Dave H.,You say that the Father created Jesus. I have a couple questions I would like you to give the LDS explanation for. If you can, I would appreciate some LDS quotes that substiantiate the answers.
I am curious to know where did the Father come from?
What was He before He beca
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I
will accept lack of doctrinal differences on infant baptism, but there
are many more in the 136 divisions within Mormonism.
DAVEH: The point was whether those who believe in the BofM are divided
in their belief about the BofM. Those who are divided from the LDS
Chur
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message
dated 10/3/2002 1:35:42 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Blainer)
Where did you get the half-brother idea? If he was a brother,
he was a full-brother.
Jacob and Esau were full-brothers, but one was
evil and the other was righteous.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glenn
- I need some help here. I understood that the way I interpret the
Bible is generally accepted among evangelical Christians.
DAVEH: If that is truly the case, then would you not think that our
Father in Heaven is a man? For does not the Bible testify that Jesus
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glenn
- OK, are you and Blainer denying that Jesus is the half-brother of
Satan?
DAVEH: I thought both Blaine and I explained it to you. Perhaps
it would be best if you explain what you mean by "" before I answer with
a yes or no. To reiterate my belief, I believe t
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I
had a Mormon tell me that the more he was persecuted from Christians the
more rewards he had in heaven. Do you belief that?
DAVEH: HmmI think not necessarily. But if one person
were to deserve a big reward in heaven for putting up with your haranguing,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glenn
- Not all the time. Jesus ran them out of the temple.
DAVEH: I agree. However, I'm a little more timid than Jesus
in such cases.
I
still see "respectfully disagree" as a red flag that means you are wrong
and cannot explain it further.
DAVEH: I "respectfully
d
In a message dated 10/3/2002 8:39:37 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Michael D: That's interesting. You are saying that we were all angels at one time and subsequently took on flesh. What authoratative LDS scripture references confirm this, if any...
I'm still an angel! L
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > > Blainer) I have never heard anything about Satan and Jesus being
> > > half-brothers.
> > > What I have heard about is that we are all spirit brothers and
> > sisters,
> > > offspring of God. If Satan is a spirit, he must therefore
> > logically be a
>
You might not, but Mormon doctrine teaches I am under the influence of Satan because I follow the Bible in it's current form only and reject so called Mormon "revelation". You, DaveL, differ from Mormonism on this point.
DAVEH: I cannot speak for the choices they made (other than to respectful
Then you are divided just like Protestants. Mormon revelation has failed to bring unity.
DAVEH: I suppose we have a particular fondness for factions that believe the BofM as we do, but we do not believe they have the "proper authority" any more than Protestants.
I beleive in the priesthood of all believers.
DAVEH: Yeah...from our "proper authority" standpoint, it boils down to either the RCC or the LDS. It seems that few others claim a "proper authority", but instead assume a "believers authority".
Glenn - Not all the time. Jesus ran them out of the temple. I still see "respectfully disagree" as a red flag that means you are wrong and cannot explain it further.
Davel - That is why I often times simply say that I "respectfully disagree" instead of letting the discussion degenerate into a m
I had a Mormon tell me that the more he was persecuted from Christians the more rewards he had in heaven. Do you belief that?
DAVEH: AnnndI would include you too! Others however have found my "brotherly association" not to be to their liking, so I've tried to avoid being too chummy
And certainly THE JESUS PERSPECTIVE!
DAVEH: While I probably wouldn't argue against that point, on the other hand I don't believe that simply being a Protestant dooms them to damnation as some may think I believe! Furthermore, let me say again that my perspective of eternal damnation is
signifi
I have explained to you in the past what Biblical belief is. I guess you don't understand since you wrote below. This makes me wonder (not sure) if you are trully saved. Your nephew said he was not saved. Now he is in New Orleans teaching people how to NOT BE SAVED.
DAVEH: I guess that is
Glenn - No I am not confused about your explanation. Your explanation is not true. You are confused on division within Christianity. If what you say is true about Mormonism, THEN BY YOUR DEFINITION CHRISTIANITY IS NOT DIVIDED EITHER.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
EVERYTHING YOU ARE SAYING HERE C
Glenn - OK, are you and Blainer denying that Jesus is the half-brother of Satan? That is a simple question without all the spin. If you and Blainer are denying Jesus is the half brother of Satan, are there not many Mormons who thus believe?
Glenn to Blainer - Here's what I hear you saying. Y
Glenn - I need some help here. I understood that the way I interpret the Bible is generally accepted among evangelical Christians. Does anyone know? There are numerous books on Biblical interpretation.
Glenn - I've told you this before. If it CAN be taken literal it MUST be taken literal.
DAV
Glenn to DaveL - I would have to agree with you. Many times I have no idea where Mormons get their speculations on which to build a financial empire. I do know where they do NOT get their speculations. They do not get their speculations in the Bible.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glenn - If you tal
I have read it many times in "unofficial" books. Do you believe Jesus is the half-brother of Jesus? Do you believe Jesus is God? John 1:1.
Blainer) Where did you get the half-brother idea? If he was a brother,
he was a full-brother. Jacob and Esau were full-brothers, but one was
evil and
Glenn - I think it could be both. If anyone has a different point of view on this, I would like to hear it.
Blainer) either or both--have ti wait and see what happens.
Glenn - This is an answer to a question I am not asking. I don't care about it. I think it is bunk, in order to make it look like Mormons know something Christians don't know. If the Bible doesn't say, then there is no way to know.
I live by inspiration not speculation.
ARE YOU GOING TO
Glenn - You didn't address the point. You just said Protestants are guilty too. Sure they are guilty too, but not guilty in the Jesus belief that He is the half-brother of Satan. Do you believe Jesus to be God? John 1:1.
On Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:02:40 -0400 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writ
In a message dated 10/3/2002 1:35:42 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Blainer) Where did you get the half-brother idea? If he was a brother,
he was a full-brother. Jacob and Esau were full-brothers, but one was
evil and the other was righteous. I don't know why that idea i
I will accept lack of doctrinal differences on infant baptism, but there are many more in the 136 divisions within Mormonism.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Wrong.
DAVEH: "Wrong"??? I don't think DavidM pointed out any doctrinal differences between Mormon factions regarding infant baptism, which is
Glenn - I think you missed the point. The point is... Mormons claim how simple the BoM is in explaining the Bible. This shows the BoM is not plain and simple like Mormons claim. Frankly, when I read it I found it extremely boring and answering questions I was not asking.
> (1 Nephi 13:29)
>
> P
Glenn - What is not in the Bible is because God did not want it in the Bible.
I will base my eternal security on inspiration not speculation.
I will not base my salvation on speculation of a child molester.
DAVEH: Again, it is what is not in the Bible (or any Scripture, for that matter) that al
Glenn - You left out the phrase "not official doctrine" on this one? Is it "official" doctrine? Do you DaveL, believe Jesus is the half-brother of Satan?
Yes, I disagree that Jesus is the half-brother of Satan. John 1:1.
3. Jesus Christ is the half-brother of Satan.
DAVEH: As Jesus is a creat
Glenn - Do DaveL, believe Jesus had many wives?
2. Jesus Christ had many wives.
DAVEH: There have been some LDS folks who have believed such and some have even written books supporting their theories, but it is a matter of speculation on their part and NOT official doctrine of The Church of Je
Glenn - You didn't take the whole sentence. Notice the last line which I underlined for your convenience. Anyone who would continue to make the claim Mormonism is not divided, after the historical evidence is presented, then they are either liars or brainwashed. I do not believe you to be a liar
Does Jesus equal God?
DAVEH: I respectfully disagree with your conclusion, G. If you think the "Christ" I follow is not the "Jesus" you are referring to, then I don't know what else to say to you.I think I've made that association (Jesus = Christ) quite obvious over the past 3 years I've bee
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