the Mormon doctrine (official church doctrine) Christ's atonement
for the sins of the world.
DAVEH: As I understand it, the atonement took place in the Garden of
Gethsemane, and was finalized (sealed, so to speak) by Jesus' death on
the cross.
I'm certainly not an authority on this topic,
I see power in the cross. You see defeat.
DAVEH: The power of the cross as I see it was the ability of it to
actually bring death to Jesus. That is not to say that I don't
think Jesus had any power over the cross to prevent his death from
occurring on it. Quite the contrary.I think
DAVEH: Naw Terry..no prairie dogs in Western Oregon. But, we've
been able to combine two popular sports that may attract you
instead..out here we just shoot fish in a barrel. ;-)
Terry Clifton wrote:
My wife is from Washington state. We have lived in cold weather
before, but
I think you named the apostles correctly. It appears that your list of
names of the others goes down hill from there. You did not even mention
Joseph Smith. Certainly he was as much a (False) prophet as Calvin and
more influential than any of the liberals you chose to honor.
You might want
In a message dated 12/26/2005 11:52:23 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Add to
this the fact that JS was himself a mason of at least the 32nd
degree,
Blainerb: I assure you there are not anywhere near 32 degrees
in Mormon temple ceremonies. There are NO degrees
I am not aware of one, except to say, as JS did, that he joined the
Freemasons to obtain whatever friendship and support they might offer in times
of duress--as you are probably aware, he was arrested on false charges many
times--0ver 40 times, as I recall--and abused both physically and
I appreciate your comments, Dave. This helps me to better understand
what you have either been taught or come to believe. If I may, I would
like to take the liberty of pointing out some differences in our views.
I see Jesus sweating out the coming event in the garden much as I sweat
out a trip
In a message dated 12/26/2005 11:52:23 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Blaine,
I beg to differ. I have read two books, side by side, one
of the Mormon temple endowment, and one of Freemasonry, and the
similarities are unmistakable, from the the clothing and
In a message dated 12/26/2005 11:52:23 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Lets add to this some new information...the Freemasons, in
their ceremonies, pay homage to several Egyptian gods. Now, you have told
us that JS writes in the PoGP that one of hte names of god
Well JD the tone of your email was negative so I read
it as something other than a compliment along with the fact
that most of the time cute little rich girls are
spoiled pagans. Do you know of one cute little rich girl celebrity
who
is a "steadfast" believer in the Lord Jesus
Christ? If
Terry,
Well said. The wages of sin is death, and since Jesus paid the price for
our sins, it is his death that paid that price...not the stress He felt in
Gethsemene, as great as it was. If that were so, the billions of animals
that have been sacrificed by the Jews in in ages past for thier
I have read the same Blaine and the Freemasonry
rituals are based on the old Fertility Cult mystery religions which is
the same kind of paganism that got the Canaanite Nations exiled from the Promised Land and
destroyed. There is a
sexual aspect to both. jt
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:06:14 EST
You surprised me. J Smith was not an illuminary of the biblcial scriptures. He and Calvin are worlds apart. And Calvin's work certainly kept The Discussion alive for the established and Christian church. If you believe that one can be wrongabout something and remain connected to Christ, then you
The power of the cross is found in the "turn the other cheek" doctrine of
Christ. Jesus said that his disciples must take up their cross and follow
him. It is the doctrine of self denial, illustrated most perfectly by
Jesus going to the cross to die for us. Without the cross, you have just
And to compare the range of influence of J Smith with any on the list is spurious, at best. There is a big difference between one who creates a "new religion" and one who works within given boundaries to explain and definition a religion. J Smith has NO INFLUENCE outside his religion. Many on my
Back to your old tactics of adding words and meaning to my post.
If you cannot accept my explanation of what I wrote AND, at the
same time, feel the need to add wording to the post, I see no
point in continuing the discussion.
jd
-- Original message --
His condition was "If you abide in Me and My Words
abide in you" Tell me how does one meet the
condition with other words abiding in them. Also
how can one be a doer of the Word if they reject the true
and embrace the false?
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:16:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I take care not to add words or meaning to the words of
scripture, however
your words are not in the same category JD. I
just can't figure why you would
send such a comment as this. jt
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:24:48 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Back to your old tactics of adding words
myth (e.g.,
evidence shows that you'verevise/d the meaning of the book of James
toaccommodate your private doctrinal demands)
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:33:23 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I take care not to add words or meaning to the words
of scripture,
||
Blainerb: Freemasonry is obviously descended from the
time when the Jews returned from the Babylonian captivity to Jerusalem to
rebuild their temple and the walls of the city. It is one thing to
say such as you have stated below, but quite another to show beyond reasonable
doubt that your
My thinking, too, jd. In fact, I wonder if Marlin
collects antiques. Marlin, do you hold onto the past in other ways,
too?
Blainerb
In a message dated 12/25/2005 9:57:09 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hello Marlin. Christmas has a very different definition
Blainerb: I believe most people, being children of God, experience
spiritual experiences, possibly termed miracles, at some time or other in
their lives.I read of such accounts in crediblesources quite
often. I have no real reason to doubt the sincerity of these people, who
are not even
An apprehension of the crossis so important that it truly makes a
difference between those who are born from above and those who are not.
DAVEH: Do you believe the Primitive Christians had that apprehension?
David Miller wrote:
The power of the cross is found in the "turn the
rituals are based on the old Fertility Cult mystery
religions which is
the same kind of paganism that got the Canaanite Nations
exiled from the Promised Land and destroyed.
DAVEH: Could not the same argument be made about Christmas and
Easter, Judy?
http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p235.html
DAVEH:
Do you believe the Primitive Christians had
that apprehension?
Yes, absolutely. Just look at how much the New Testament writes about the
cross. The earliest of the church fathers also wrote about the cross.
Ignatius of the first century magnified the cross even more than Paul did.
Just think about your family ending up raped,
tortured, and in one of those terrorist mass graves.
And remember 9-11. iz
If the survival of my nation isof
no ultimateimportance to God {let's keep in mind that America is a
Gentile and secualr nation to the exclusion of all
Just to protect your sorry .
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005
12:55 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Real men
kill people
perhaps..partic
while
I was truly hoping my son would drop a big J-dam right on Osama's nose. In
fact, I'd be proud to kill him myself. (Think Jael!) iz
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 12:36 PM
To:
So what does that have to do with
anything? (Nothing at all.)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005
5:43 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Real men
kill people
perhaps
Okay. Think King David, a man after Gods
own heart. Think Peter, Paul, Samson, Moses, Joshua. You get the idea. iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005
12:33 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re:
Only if you are working for the US railroad I
suppose. White folks arent allowed otherwise on Indian reservations.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 6:27
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re:
How judgmental you are jd. We will all
give account for our words one day. And, as Ive explained more than
once, I came from poverty. iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005
5:47 PM
To:
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
His condition was "If you abide in Me and My Words abide in you" Tell me how does one meet the
condition with other words abiding in them.There is no reason to believe that any other word than the word of God
then it's true, as
evidence shows, that youkeep neitheryour own laws,nor
God's
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:22:27 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Just to protect your
sorry .
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of
[EMAIL
what's the
relationship betw your 'virtue' your 'value/s'?
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:22:27 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
So what does that
have to do with anything? (Nothing at all.)
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf
You do add words to the posts of others and you do it often. Here are some words added to my post -- ".most of the time cute little rich girls are spoiled pagans. Do youknow of one cute little rich girl celebrity whois a "steadfast" believer in the Lord Jesus Christ? If not then
"vengenance" is your answer? !! I am not surprised. I think the question I have asked is a good one and deserving of an intellectual answer. Emotional bias is not what I even care about.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Just
I am not sure your escape from poverty has been completed.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
How judgmental you are jd. We will all give account for our words one day. And, as Ive explained more than once, I came from poverty. iz
Forget about the "cute" part. Little rich girls who talk like sailors do not qualify.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Just to protect your sorry
.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL
some differences in our views.
DAVEH: To boil it down, Terry..It seems to me the main difference
is that you believe it necessary for the pain to be inflicted on Jesus
from a 3rd party to make the atonement work. From my perspective,
Jesus took our sins upon himself and suffered because
Dave wrote:
some differences in our views.
I see Jesus sweating out the coming event in the garden
DAVEH: I understand your perspective on this, but for Jesus to
literally sweat blood worrying about what is to come seems a bit
oddeffectively, it would seem the anticipation is
-- Original message -- From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] some differences in our views.DAVEH: To boil it down, Terry..It seems to me the main difference is that you believe it necessary for the pain to be inflicted on Jesus from a 3rd party to make the atonement work.
The(biblical)fact is this: He died
on the cross at the hands of others.
DAVEH: I agree, John. What do you think caused Jesus to suffer so
much in the Garden of Gethsemane?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
some
differences in our views.
DAVEH: To boil it
There is no doubt that the cross was extremely important and
emphasized by the primitive Christians, much more so than by most Christians
today.
DAVEH: I've found a few comments that suggest some early Christians
were less than enamored by the cross
The use of the cross as a
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The job of the apostles was not to write the Bible,Matthew, Mrak (probably under the supervision of the Apostle Peter), John's gospel and letters, Paul's authorship including Hebrews, James, and (perhaps)
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