the creation of mankind continues to this day !!! # 12 is coming into this world in about 30 minutes .. PapaJohn is outahere!!
PTL
jd
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > When I say that I'm not a strict creationist, I'm refering to the > idea that > t
In the recent article posted by Lance from Torrance, the theologican says this:
"Nowhere is this more apparent than in the case of the popular minister where everything centers on him, and the whole life of the congregation is built round him. What is that but Protestant sacerdotalism, sacerdota
copywright info duly noted, brother bro
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"1 Lord, you have been our dwelling place throughout all generations.
2 Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from eve
It is a girl -- 6 pounds 6 ounces -- 17 3/4 inches long
Claire Wilken
the KJV is inspired ??
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Only necessary for the non inspired versions JD
The KJV has no Copyright ie: Freely, freely, you have received..
On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 04:45:38 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
copyw
Thank you and yes I am. Children are awesome beings !! I have coached kids sports for 25 years, maybe a little more, soccer, baseball and wrestling, and I do it as much because of the uniqueness of the experience as for anything. If you ever think you have seen or heard it all, just hang ou
Let's not forget that Paul and Christ Himself were very well educated. Luke and Matthew were bprobably better educated than most, as well. Most of the apostles, in fact, knew two -- maybe three - languages.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTE
More than one observation: There are plenty of reasons for believing that "day" in the creation account does not mean a 24 hour period. First , the Hebrew word itself is not limited in definition to this meaning. Secondly, Adam and Eve did not die in the "day" they transgressed unless, of cou
As far as I know, Torrance believed that salvation was offered to all -- not a Calvinist opinion, my dear. And you are much more the Calvinist that he.
His comments below gives us a consistent explanation of the biblical notion that man is justified apart from obedience to the law. It beats
:-)
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
All of Canada chimes in 'bishop'.
Lance
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 18, 2006 07:06
Subject: Re:
Yes, and the importance of this conclusion -- It is Justification by Grace alone that guards the Gospel from corruption by "Evangel icals," "Liberals," and Romans alike. is lost to those who think that their think don't stink.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "
Notation after the fact: perhaps only the last paragraph is worth reading -- hopefully.
jd
One of the more important debates in the world of psychology is whether or not thoughts define a person. I rather think the heart of man is emotion. If the emotion is not given serious nou
The pastor's comments in blood red.
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:48:37 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
More than one observation: There are plenty of reasons for believing that "day" in the creation account do
If anyone has expressed a belief in "total depravity," it is Judy Taylor -- what with her notion of the "generaltional curse"and all. She denies the use of phrase "total depravity" while esposing the teaching.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL P
First, I do not beleive that you believe that scripture interprets scripture. What you actually mean to say is "this scripture defuncts that scripture." I AM using scripture to define scripture just as surely as anything you do with scripture.
How do I know what they knew? Well, I guess
Thanks for you substantive statement of fact versus opinion. But, I shall continue with my opinion in light of numerous JudyPosts in my possession.
And you did not answer Lance's question about TFT. In your words, specifically, what is Torrance's position as relates to Calvinism? I serious
On second thought, Judy, don't bother - as if you were going to answer the question, anyway !! Lance is correct -- if we have but a week remaining, trying to squeeze a real answer out of you on this one is not worth the effort. I will just say that you did and move on.
jd
---
On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:25:44 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
First, I do not beleive that you believe that scripture interprets scripture. What you actually mean to say is "this scripture defuncts that scripture." I AM using scripture to define scripture just as surely as anything you
From what I know of the two men, it appears to me that Calvin was the better theologican and Luther the more involved pastor. They were not fully correct in their expressed theologies, but then, that just might be an impossibility for us all.
jd
-- Original message
I understand two things about "them." One is that they
are , indeed, in need of love and (#2) they deny the Living
Christ , His gospel , His holy Spirit and blaspheme the Faith
nearly as often as they opportunity -- that is when they
are collecting monies from the far right.
jd
I have no intentions of defending myself against nonsensical accusation that have no basis in anything other than a desire to insult. I submit that there is no one on this forum who can honestly ask of me, "Do you call God a liar?" By the way, this is not a response to "moderator." It is a
To your first question , "no."
To your second question, either you did not read my post or you have decided to insult my presentation?
jd
John, I have a couple questions for you.1. Have you ever read John Whitcomb's theological treatment concerning the length of the day in Genesis 1? I h
I am asking the "right" question, David. Surely it is appropriate to ask such a question of one who writes as it she knows of Torrance's "Calvinistic" belief system. Until she answers the question, why should we assume that she knows what she is talking about as concerns the above matter?
Your suspicion is misquided, of course. And what is wrong with point # 2. Do you know of any orthodox Jews who do not deny the Christ? And why does that not have any meaning to you? I will give my money to the needy, thank you very much.
jd
-- Original message -
Frankly, I am not interested in what's his name. Post it to the group, if you like -- but don't do it on my account. I know what I believe on the matter.
Secondly, one's motivation for taking a particular position is quite unimportant. If you need an answer on that, hear me say "intel
One other thought on the creation thread. I wrote my remarks more because of Conor than for any other reason. My comments can stand on their own, I believe. I do not believe in a 6000 year old earth nor do I beleive the bible teaches such - for the reasons stated. Could the earth be onl
It has occurred to me that legalism, although unattractive as it is, is not my real complaint. Henceforth and forever more, I will be opposed to sectarianism. The legal content of the sectarian is often different -- but the sectarian is the same kind of cat, regardless of his/her stripes. T
I see no conflict.
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Judy quotes a mentor of Lance: > > Out of sheer respect for the majesty of > > the Truth as it is revealed in the Holy > > Scriptures, we have to do our utmost > > to speak correctly and
Dean is anti- charismatic. He would challenge most of your theology as relates to faith and healing. No surprise.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
What this reminds me of is when the Pharisees complained about Jesus healing on
Unitarians, of course, have beliefs.
Here is a definition of sectarian that allows many to escape the curse of "Sectarian !!"
Sectarianism refers (usually pejoratively) to a rigid adherence to a particular sect or party or denomination. It often implies discrimination, denunciation, or violen
Actually, when sectarians become angry, which is most of the time, they call others "sectarian" just to complicate things. One cannot read Romans 14 and come away believing that Pual was "secatarian." Further, his role in revealing the mystery of the gospel, that Jews were not the only ones
George Bush, the man. David Warren. The Ottawa Citizen Sunday, September 11, 2005There's plenty wrong with America, since you asked. I'm tempted to say that the only difference from Canada is that they have a few things right. That would be unfair, of course -- I am often pleased to discover thing
No, Lance. You are misapplying things you have read. Based on my reading> of Torrance, I'm with him on this one. I believe God operates with logic,--- dm
Demonstrate that you and Torrance are 'as one' on this point, David. My goodness but you esteem yourself highly ("I don't expect
A discussion between DM and a practicing scientist would be most interesting !!
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
As to the former, I agree. As to the latter, that's what I'm suggesting to David but, he seems not to want engagement
You might plead lack of intelligence or that the Holy Spirit is not a rationalist or any number of things, but it is quite simple and true that if you do not keep the commandments, you are not in Christ. Here is the reason that you and I cannot understand one another concerning the characteristic
David , in other posts of the day, I find you saying that yoou and Torrance are in agreement concerninglogic. I may ahve misunderstood your wording, but that was what you said according to my perspective.
Below you say this:
If you define "rationalist" in the more esoteric sense of th
You can't answer my question so you try a distraction, instead.
The man is an anti-Christ ... a political Jewish leader who denies the Living Christ.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Funny all you focus on is the (in y
What did I say that was insulting to David or are you just mouthing off again.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
No, he prefers to put up with your insults this week. iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
We shall be one as He and the Father are one, someday, Judy. Right now, unity inspite of diversity is all we've got. Because you and I are not of the same Christ does not mean that unity in diversity does not exist.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[E
How long did it take God to say "let there be light?" David? You and I both know the answer to that question. Tell me again that "day" and "the evening and the morning" mark out literal 24 hour periods when the whole of creation, taken in literal biblical terms , only took seconds to speak
Ah, yet another question you cannot answer.
-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Your disrespect is obvious in your comments. Love and kindness is scarce around here. iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] O
Honest questions, only, please.
-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I assume you refer to Rabbi Lapin? He is the same as any lost person. But he is a visionary who realizes that the Evangelical church is the best friend Israel ever
Ah, honest question, only, please.
-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
So which one of you does that make anti-Christ? iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, March 19,
Couldn't have said it better myself.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> DAVEH: The Lord has provided a way for us to avoid it.ShieldsFamily wrote:
What is the positive message about hell? iz
Do you ever warn people about the FI
dH, hopefully, you will not feel the need to respond to Kevin's
pretense that you shy away from a Mormon defense. It is apparent
to any thinking person on this forum that such is not the case. Rather
it is Kevin who avoids such opportunities, time after time.
I would not take seriously the
It should be obvious why G does this.
It is to some of us.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hey Iz; you and your husband are in the medical field. What do they say about ppl
who like to dialogue with themselves all the time lik
David:4. Will you kindly name those 'believing scientists' with whom you've engaged? I'll name but two for now with whom you might 'engage'. 1. John Polkinghorne (See his newest: 'Science and The Trinity - The Christian Encounter with Reality' 2004 2. Alexei V. Nesteruk 'Light from the East - Th
You don't see it ianywhere in scripture??? Try reading Romans 14. Or look to the solutions offered in Acts 15. Unity in diversity is the very theme of those passages.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
If your idea were so JD then Je
Why not form your own list, Judy. I would be interested in seeing just how that would work. And you miss the point of G's monologue, altogether -- IMO. Hint: it has to do with the possibility for a reply that leaves open the notion of true exchange -- from G's perspective, maybe the
Romans 14 is not a discussion of how to treat the weak brother TO THE EXCLUSION OF DIVERSITY. The problem in Romans 14 is clearly that of diversity. The principle used to deal with doctrinal diversity is stated in 14:4 and is the only way unity within the fellowship can exist. Answer this que
God bless on this !! How many came to Christ at this event.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sometimes you just dont know the will of God, but at the end of the > day one can connect the dots and your eyes are open. Sunday was the
Are the carnal "babes in Christ" saved?
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Only in your "book" Lance; the Lamb's Book contains those who are His disciples
and hereticks do not qualify. They have a different root along with different fruit in
Since you cannot possibly know if I hate anyone, your question is not a serious one.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Im VERY serious. iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Here is what I said, Linda.: "Do you know of any orthodox Jews who do not deny the Christ? And why does that not have any meaning to you? I will give my money to the needy, thank you very much. " There in not one hateful word in that comment -- not one.
You can choose to continue to
Bill Taylor, last time I heard, believes that all are saved to start with, salvation being something you loose. Kinda sounds like you and my dear brother are in full agreement on this one. Good to have you aboard.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EM
I think David might say, It IS logical, all of it -- we just don't know all the facts as of yet."
I would think all our discussion about logic as applied to the knowing of God suffers from this present time limitation, making necessary the self-revealing that TFT speaks of. Am I off c
Bill Taylor, last time I heard, believes that all are saved to start with, salvation being something you lose. Kinda sounds like you and my dear brother are in full agreement on this one. Good to have you aboard.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor
First , I am not a dispensationalist -- never have been and very likely never will be. It is an American theological invention. a man named Darby being its first major proponent, and Scolfield along with Dallas Theological Seminary being the back bone of its critical acclaim.
Secondly,
1. "Faith" is used with two considerations in Romans 14 -- "the Faith" and "faith." The FOUR brethren disagreed on The Faith, Judy. Now if you do not think that "The Faith" includes doctrine, we must agree to disagree.
2. We have the eating of meats AND the observance of holy days p
In short, Modalism !!
Modalism The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
REPENT -- HURRY !!
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
LOL for Lance's comment.
Also, Linda, when someone spoke of the "anti - Christ" in first century times, whommm do you think they would envision -- the RCC which wasn't in existence or some form of Judaism, which did exist and was very anti-Christ??? What would be the message in "anti
I stand corrected.
Judy, modal--m was heresy thousands of years ago for the same reasons it is today - among other things, it denies the person of God the Father and the person of Christ, His eteranl son.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL P
Actually, Smithson Theologgy versus [apparently] Deegan Theology and/or differently stated than Muir Theology or Taylor Theology or Ottoson Theology.
Can't we all just get along -- seriously?
jd
-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Replaceme
Judy, I have no idea as to the connection between your comments and my mine, below?
Also, do you not believe that "forever" can also mean "a long period of time?"
One more thing, quickly. I am not saying that "covenant Israel" is unimportant to the biblical text or to our circumstance, to
There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I disregard.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Jd, I never said the Jew
What good is theology if it doesn't hit the ground running in the midst of our city, our culture?
(a question asked by another)
jd
You are not required to make up lies about a person -- the judgment you offer is the judgment you will receive. Have a nice day.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Fine with me; Im only required to warn you. iz
From: [
The world in which we live would reject any mention of God in the evolutionary process, IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical fundamentalist take-over of the culture?
But to allow a mere statement that suggests God is somehow in
Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
John wrote:
> The world in which we live wou
Well --- I really do not know his reasoning.. hence the wording "perhaps " I have a friend, a math teacher in high school. He had to teach biology for a semester. He decided he was put his career on the line and make a statement , in class, that was pro-creation. Befo
And we all talk as if "David and Judy" agree on matters of critical importance. They do not. I leave TT knowing without any doubt of the discord that exists between pundents of the radical fundy side of the aisle. Their only concern is to continue the debate until the libs give up and walk awa
It is a shame we will not be able to finish this thread, I suppose, but I must say something here -- the conflict (speaking for myself) is not between science and religion. It is between religion and fundamentalism (radical fundamentalism, if you will.) Knowing that the first step will
Go back to sleep, Judy, and the problem just might resolve itself.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Oophs! The mockers have been emboldened ...
Anarchy is at the door
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:47:26 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ???
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
So?
There isn't a single fiew of the whole church that is agreed upon
by the whole church e
Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GOES INTO THE SCHOOL CURRICULUM -- HUH ??!! Be sure to answer with "the right one, John -- duh !!" or will that be Linda's piece of intellectual contribuation for the day?
jd
-- Original message --
Paul opposed the intolerant legalists in the church and so will I while, at the same time, writing the words of Romans 14. He is one of my mentors -- I will do the same.
A Rad Fundy is not defined by the words she reads but by the froth of mouth as she "evangelizes" the lost.
If the
How busy are you , for the Lord, my dear southern plantation owner ?? Gave away any unwanted furniture lately? I would be careful with such criticism when one's duff is permanently shaped to her favority chair !!
jd
-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAI
Likewise, here. It will go onto the shelf next to my "Little Black Box" or something like that.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I will give it a read, David. > > > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECT
What's you oldest "Batman and Robin" edition?
jd
-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From one book worm to another.
I read a book a week, love reading, I guess I just read the WRONG books!
I have a personal library room and a few collecti
Or maybe, just maybe, her adaptations have to do with what she eats.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I think she adjusts and adapts to the perceived depth of those she is addressing Lance
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 "Lanc
There is no point in such posts. You can't get it right with Stone/Campbell. no point in believing you can get it right concerning anything else. Information sources need to be predictably accurate -- not just predictable. .
jd
-- Original message -- From: Kev
froth around the edges of the lips.
-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Then maybe you can flesh it out for the rest of us.
I am sure Lance can not/will not
I am sure we can see the difference, but just what are the symptoms of that particular
So which fundamentalist version of creation do you support. That A & E were spirit people. A 6000 year date or a 10,000 or an "unknown" e.t. ? The version that says it took God 144 hours to speak words that can be spoken in 24 seconds !!! I just did it in 24 big ones !! including a d
I think I now have enough evidence to put you in the slammer -- for beinging a "peeping tom." Big time mistake, THIS time.
-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Your MUTHA wears Combat boots![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Go back to sleep, Judy,
We are still waitig !
-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Someone said
render to Cesear what is Cesear's [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So which fundamentalist version of creation do you support. That A & E were spirit people. A 6000 year da
I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systems and you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing
Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system ... I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That
what on earth are you talking about, Judy !!! Secret things ??? So you decided to just stay off subject? Whatever.
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Some ppl are willing to let God be God JD
The secret things belong to the Lord a
And sure enough, you did this very thing -- Be sure to answer with "the right one, John -- duh !! Your wording a little different, but it is the same ridiculous non-answer.
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Well of course you couldn't
"Believe in God's word" is fundy code for "believe as I do."
When we have been dispersed, take with you the knowledge that not one single Rad Fundy has given any of us a clue as to what "doctrine" they are talking about.
You must obey the commandments !!! they yell to the others. W
In a message dated 3/9/2004 1:55:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
we get in to in these "Trinity" discussions arise not because of the threeness idea of the Trinity but because of the oneness idea we have about "God."
Another new guy on the list. Hi.
I am thinking tha
In a message dated 3/9/2004 4:05:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Are you willing to go that far?
Absolutely. Understand that I (we?) are not talking about the sinful use of unbiblical wording. Trinity is a good word, I suppose --- but it is not biblical. Person, as
In a message dated 3/9/2004 5:11:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The answer now, it seems to me, is not to trash the language -- as if that
will make the controversy go away -- but to learn how to speak it in a way
that is both historically and biblically accurate, while me
In a message dated 3/10/2004 4:18:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Welcome to TT John Smithson, you write in part:
"I am educated by the Word; I am entertained by history."
Truly wisdom from above,
judyt
Hi judyt: i am thinking we agree. Right?
God bless and I am lo
In a message dated 3/10/2004 5:21:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
DAVEH: I hope you don't mind my intrusion, John. First.welcome to TT and this thread. it is great to speak with you
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The problem with "person" (and I have used this m
In a message dated 3/10/2004 12:01:14 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
JS'
What is JS
John -- the new guy
In a message dated 3/10/2004 5:21:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up
In a message dated 3/10/2004 5:26:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What a great line Is that original? Can I steal it?
Terry
Yes but can have it --- send the anticipated revenues to my worship therapist - I am musically challenged. It is so bad that on one occ
In a message dated 3/10/2004 6:17:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
A little less hyperbole, a little less certainty, might go a long way. When you equate your statement(s) of the truth with the Truth Himself you're already moving away from the Truth. Lance
By this phrase "
In a message dated 3/10/2004 6:27:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Kevin has made several arguments about how the Book of Mormon has no
historical basis and therefore should not be trusted. If we accept the
idea that history has entertainment value but not educational value
In a message dated 3/10/2004 6:42:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Perry wrote:
> I must say that I am in the same camp as Kevin
> with respect to not seeing Mel Gibson's movie.
> My position is that it is not "the Passion"...
> it is an RCC commentary about "the Passion"
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