Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.
Re Debbie's post . I rest my case. judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.
I have the Word of the Lord myself Lance in a lot of different translations that somehow all harmonize under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit. Why do I need other women to give me a word? If in fact they do have something to say then I will check it out and if in line with what is written I will gladly hear them... judyt
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.
Not exactly Debbie; loving Jesus and obeying His Word ensures that one's position on what is important is correct. There is so much out there that doesn't matter one way or the other that ppl are willing to die for... judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.
Lance men can use what you call "scriptural data" to support all kinds of weird and ungodly ideas. The question should be "Is this the image of Christ? Is this what Jesus said and by his actions endorsed?" The Jews were mortified that Jesus gave equal status to women and even allowed one to sit at his feet and learn. No wonder he had a group of them following him about to minister to his temporal needs. It was women who discovered the empty tomb and a woman who first ran into town to proclaim the gospel. judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.
I would say that most of the church like most church theology follows the teachings of men, (like church fathers etc) so that we have male leadership in an ungodly fashion which is no different from secular leadership out there where the rich lord it over the poor and the strong lord it over the weak and the intellectual lord it over those who don't know as many fancy words or expressions as they do. Humility along with true wisdom is fallen in the street. judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Fem. God- Dave H. get bathing suit.
I don't agree with Adam Clark on this point Dean. Gen 3:16 is part of the curse spoken over the woman at the time of the transgression. Being joint heirs of the grace of God is New Covenant reality. The rest of what Adam Clark wrote pertained to Jewish customs and was not God's way. Even under the Law of Moses God wanted women and children also to congregate and hear the reading of the law every seven years. If women were to be like zombies with male gurus as the Jews seemed to prefer then why would this be necessary. God at different times deals with women aside from men. He even put some of them in leadership positions when there was no man willing or available. I do personally believe in male leadership when handled the right way which is rare in our generation. judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
Dean, I don't think you are misreading; and I do think we are saying the same thing which is that Jesus did not come into this world with a heathen sin nature. Sin is not just an action. When we receive an occult thought and accept it as ours we are on our way to the action; the scriptures say that "A man without understanding is like the beasts that perish" Jesus had understanding - from the time he was 12yrs old and amazing the teachers of the law. Where in all of the scriptures is this genital thing elaborated on? He is the seed of the woman who was born into the family line of David. All we can possibly know is what the scriptures tell us. Speculation is on the same level as manipulation. On TT this morning it seems both abound. I am at a disadvantage as we are on the road headed to TX and I am using WIFI at the motel so don't have access to any study helps. judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] 'i DON'T UNDERSTAND' -David Miller'
Bill are you aware that manipulation is sin? Backing a person into a corner with a "repent or fight" attitude has never been God's modus operandi although I do see it in the Crusades and Islam. You are wrong! My prayer for you is that you will eventually receive understanding from God, lay down your religious idols and find freedom in Christ. judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
The rcc may have been and still are messed up Bill but they were not brazen enough to give Jesus a sin nature as you and other theologians have done in our generation. All this shows is that you know nothing about God's ways and are blind to sin, judgment, and righteousnes as well. judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
No JD Billy T has not solved the conflict for you because "death reigned from Adam to Moses even for those who had not sinned" because they were "sinners" - they all died anyway.
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Interesting observation
Why am I not surprised that you have a different teaching about this also Bill. Jesus Himself said the unforgivable sin was not against himself or the father. It was blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Nice little play on words there Bill. judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
Job is not alluding to what you are trying to say JD. You need to study what God has to say rather than trying to put words in His mouth like you do with the rest of us constantly. Sin comes down generationally by way of the father. I understand Mary had a father also but that's just the way it is. You see Israel in Nehemiah's day as a nation repenting for the iniquities of their fathers. Maybe you should take a seminar with Bill and he can teach you word meanings. judyt.
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Interesting observation
Perceptive post Lance? Give me a break! You ppl are so into opinions ... Morality is a thing to be desired so why malign this also by adding the "self" like you know something that nobody else is aware of. You've not even heard the first one of them preaching on the street have you? To JD .. blaspheming the name of Jesus is not what gets you in trouble, it is blaspheming the Holy Spirit that is the unpardonable sin and you don't appear to have a clue about Him. Judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
Christ is not the literal seed of David's genitals Bill and by your insistance that he is you have far more scripture to explain away than I do. The reason the Messiah was to be born of the woman was because she is less responsible than Adam for the transgression. She was deceived, Adam was not. He shirked his responsibility and then chose to go with the woman rather than take a stand for righteousness. The curse comes by way of the father and Jesus is the ONLY one begotten this way. I could go on and on but I won't. judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
David, Can you imagine any ordinary 12 year old boy being so caught up in the things of God that he goes to the temple, loses all track of time, and amazes the men of the cloth there with the understanding shown by his questions? Then when his parents find him after a three day absence he asks them if they didn't know that he had to be about his Father's business... judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
David, I don't see the immaculate conception and the assumption of Mary as divinely inspired ideas; both are the thinking of religious spirits through men of the cloth. Also I believe that going on and on about David's genitals is equally bizarre. What is too difficult for God? Does he have to do things the same way every time? Scripture says Jesus was born of the woman and he was born pure and holy - without the taint of the first Adam. This is what I believe. judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] 'i DON'T UNDERSTAND' -David Miller'
JD you are too full of your own importance and you exaggerate everything out of all proportion; we are all just sheep - plain old professing believers and you say as many outrageous and outlandish things as the next person. I would not be found sitting in the seat of the scornful if I were you. judyt
Re: Fw: Fw: [TruthTalk] The spirit of anti-christ
It's from the parable of the wedding fest which you may have relegated to some other dispensation. However, I believe it will happen and those who have not been feasting on His Word but have been occupied with the dregs of this fallen world will get to spend eternity being entertained by what they have chosen. judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
I'd have to disagree with every point made by Bill in his post about the two Adams; Bill you are totally into flesh and blood - even your theology is earthly. The first Adam was fruitful and he did multiply - in the flesh. He had Cain, Abel, Seth and no telling how many others since he lived for 967 or so years. The second Adam, contrary to your claim was not born into the fall. He is the Lord from Heaven; and was the Lord of life from His birth. He didn't generate any physical life though and he died unmarried and childless. judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
David, Actually I am saying the same as Dean. I believe Jesus walked about in a flesh and blood body. I just don't accept that it was a fallen (under the Adamic curse) flesh and blood body which is what I am understanding the rest of you to be saying. Dean is the only one whose Christology I can relate to.
Re: Fw: Fw: [TruthTalk] The spirit of anti-christ
He has invited all to the banquet JD but most are too busy to bother which is evident by their rhetoric. So too many will not be properly attired when the wedding feast actually happens. Sadly!!!
Re: [TruthTalk] Apologetic for the eternal sonship of Christ
Kevin hasn't written his epistle yet and you are not viewing the epistle of his life with a completely unbiased view Lance. I figure you would find Paul in the flesh just as unfeeling and obnoxious in your view anyway because he confronted ppl - what about the girl who followed Paul and Silas around prophesying for the devil - she was telling the truth but they cost her employer his livlihood. Also the people who made a living from Diana of the Ephesians? judyt -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Apologetic for the eternal sonship of Christ
Idealogically blinded Lance??? My husband and I listened to servicemen who had been in Iraq and Guantanamo all afternoon yesterday calling in to say how perverted reports on the media have been and since they are the ones there I have to wonder what you have been hearing. I doubt you are getting any first hand reports from Canadian soldiers. The ones who are there speak of Iraquis who help and who want nothing more than for their children to live in a free and democratic society. Not all of them are blinded by irrational hatred. judyt -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Apologetic for the eternal sonship of Christ
Lance, I have not been trained in "Aristotle" - are you trying to say that there is no logic outside of Aristotle and Plato? Outside of the Greeks noone could possibly be logical at all? Maybe we need a course in Wisdom 101 which contrasts the wisdom of God and the wisdom of this world - food for thought I don't see Aristotle in the content of what DavidM writes - only in the way he constructs his answers. judyt -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Apologetic for the eternal sonship of Christ
What about Paul in Athens JD? He spoke about their monument to "the unknown god" and then explained to them that they could know the "unknown God". Waving these idolatrous objects around may be a little different - but not all that much and it is especially bold considering they are in Mormon territory and in the vicinity of the Mormon temple. Do you think Paul was being insensitive to the Athenians also? judyt At the Outer Banks in NC -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Apologetic for the eternal sonship of Christ
Yes, Nathan was the prophet and his words were inspired by God since this was the anointing for his ministry - fourfold restitution was what is required under the law of Moses. So what is the problem Bill? Nathan was not trying to interpret anything; he was confronting a man who could have had him killed in a heartbeat as a servant of God in obedience. judyt -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Apologetic for the eternal sonship of Christ
You may all do this Bill but one speaking as the "oracles of God" says what God says using God's Words. What if Jesus had used licence during His earthly ministry - you sure wouldn't have seen any works then, just like we don't see any today because ppl are all doing their own thing. I wonder if Kevin gets out on the street using great philosophical words and currently popular terms to try and persuade ppl to come to some man-made concept. Reaping what we sow is God's righteous judgment. Sowing even to righteous sounding philosophical flesh will not bring a godly harvest any more than the anger of man brings the righteousness of God. judyt -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Street preacher repents and joins LDS Church
Blaine: Thank you for the full story, Kevin. >From : Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Save to Address Book To : TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject : Re: [TruthTalk] Street preacher repents and joins LDS Church Date : Fri, 13 May 2005 07:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Move message to...InboxJunk MailTrash [ Printable Version ] This is just more Boob Bait for the BUBBA's, brought to you direct from the office of "Membership Elightenment" in the Church Office building room # 666 ! If you can't defend your Faith because you have a weak foundation, make up some news! Brad Holt's testimony of being an EX - Anti is the product of an over Active Imagination (at "Membership Enlightenment") or too much Burning in the Boosom keeping him up nights! http://www.new-jerusalem.com/CLASSICS/testimonies/bholt.html When my friends introduced me to the missionaries, I wanted to leave, but rather than risk being rude to them, (funny how that is sometimes), I endured my first missionary discussion. I could have puked! Topics like the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith made me sick, but I held a pleasent facade. The dicussion ended, and I was asked to attend another. I really did not want to, but the "rude/polite factor" outweighed my recent discontented discussion. The next discussion had more topics that I was interested in hearing. I liked talking about faith, repentance, baptism, the Holy Ghost, and the Atonement. I even involved myself much more during the second discussion, and finally it ended. These faithful Elders must have been very sensitive to the prompting of the spirit, because they then asked me to be baptized. The room quieted and all eyes were upon me. To everyone's amazement, mine mostly, I nodded my head. Sometimes I wonder whether or not an angel just took me by the back of my head and shook it for me. Every thing that I had grown to be, every belief, action, and word...every thing contradicted that nod. I could have not done it myself. I believe the Lord must have helped me to do it. Then the room broke its silence and hugs and tears were shared. WOW! From Anti to Mormon. What was the crucial key to the conversion, you ask? Get ready for this, it was that overpowering question, "Do you want to get Baptized?" OoooH PLEAaze! AND There goes that ever present "ANGEL of LIGHT" again! http://www.reachouttrust.org/articles/lds/ldsmissdisc1.htm Missionary discussion #1 INSTRUCTIONS TO MISSIONARIES "Your goal is to help investigators become converted by the Spirit...To do this you must help them feel and recognise the influence of the Spirit. As they feel the Spirit, you will be able to help them make and keep the commitments that lead to conversion and baptism." Can't you just FEEL the Spirit now? "do you, want to be baptized?" Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Brad Holt, a former Mormon basher and dedicated street preacher, appeared on >Channel 2 10:00 News yesterday (May 11). He is now a High Priest and President >of the LDS Deaf Branch in Washington DC. He said he listened to LDS >Missionaries and realized they had the truth. He was asked if he wanted to be >baptized, and said "Yes!" He appeared very radiant and happy as he talked >about his conversion on TV. >Blaine > > Please note: message attached --- Begin Message --- This is just more Boob Bait for the BUBBA's, brought to you direct from the office of "Membership Elightenment" in the Church Office building room # 666 ! If you can't defend your Faith because you have a weak foundation, make up some news! Brad Holt's testimony of being an EX - Anti is the product of an over Active Imagination (at "Membership Enlightenment") or too much Burning in the Boosom keeping him up nights! http://www.new-jerusalem.com/CLASSICS/testimonies/bholt.html When my friends introduced me to the missionaries, I wanted to leave, but rather than risk being rude to them, (funny how that is sometimes), I endured my first missionary discussion. I could have puked! Topics like the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith made me sick, but I held a pleasent facade. The dicussion ended, and I was asked to attend another. I really did not want to, but the "rude/polite factor" outweighed my recent discontented discussion. The next discussion had more topics that I was interested in hearing. I liked talking about faith, repentance, baptism, the Holy Ghost, and the Atonement. I even involved myself much more during the second discussion, and finally it ended. These faithful Elders must have been very sensitive to the prompting of the spirit, because they then asked me to be baptized. The room quieted and
[TruthTalk] Street preacher repents and joins LDS Church
Brad Holt, a former Mormon basher and dedicated street preacher, appeared on Channel 2 10:00 News yesterday (May 11). He is now a High Priest and President of the LDS Deaf Branch in Washington DC. He said he listened to LDS Missionaries and realized they had the truth. He was asked if he wanted to be baptized, and said "Yes!" He appeared very radiant and happy as he talked about his conversion on TV. Blaine ___ Get Juno Platinum for as low as $4.97/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/half to sign up today! -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Anti-Christian
ShieldsFamily wrote: God decides who is anti-Christian. It is anyone who is against Christ and His true gospel. That includes JSmith and all his devotees, however misguided. Izzy Blaine: Izzy, I hate having to point this out--believe me, it hurts me to say this--but it seems there is something contradictive when you say, first, that God decides who is anti-Christian, then you follow this up by telling us who is anti-Christian. I have to ask--and please take this as a strictly impersonal question--are you God? ___ Get Juno Platinum for as low as $4.97/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/half to sign up today! -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
I liked Canada when I went there some time ago. My family is from
Ontario--Middleville, to be exact. Borrowman's there are all related to me.
We are Scots, by name at least. They have enough good Scottish sense not to
put up with the ACLU, for sure.
Please note: message attached
--- Begin Message ---
They would probably end up in jail. No ACLU up
here. No first amendment. Then they will be able to preach to the "perverts" and
"sodomites" in prison. Perhaps that will be God's plan for them. Don't worry, I
hear Canadian jails are kinder and gentler places than American
jails.
Love,
Caroline
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 2:58
PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
baptism
And that would be your loss Lance ... Pray they will
grace Ontario with a visit - jt
On Wed, 11 May 2005 15:50:06 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
I wouldn't cross the street to see the 'cow
suit' or, for that matter, Kevin.
From: Judy Taylor
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>I
know Jesus.
Kevin is no Jesus. Very bad illustration, Charles Perry Locke.
(heretofor 'Chuckie' after the films)
The Jesus you know is not the
same being Lance.
Yours is complacent and has a gospel that was
never preached by Paul or any of the apostles.
Have you heard Kevin preaching on the
street or are you judging what you have experienced
and
giving your opinion re something you know nothing of? I thought the tactics of Chuck
Spingola were
a little over the top - But have repented of that
because - They are out there I'll go to see Ruben in
his cow suit if he ever comes to VA
- Waving that underwear gets more
than a yawn :). jt
From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
Lance, do you think Jesus was giving Christianity a "bad rap" when
he> overturned the moneylenders' tables in the temple? Instead,
should he have> quoted some 2nd century BC greek philospopher on
the existential qualities> of selling in the temple, then entered
into meaningful dialog about what the> philosopher really meant,
whether or not it applies today, and then> discussed how different
interpretations of the scripture (OT) fit in with> the philosophy?
Lets be Real Christians, okay?> >From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
>It amazes me that could could ask this of Dave, Perry! ,at least
without a> >'smiley'. Kevin is a jerk and, he comes accross as
one (I probably do as> >well) on TT. I bet he does 'on the
street' also. It is such that give> >christianity a bad rep. He
probably sees himself as 'suffering for the> >cause>
>of Christ' whereas it's just the 'jerk factor' in play.>
>> >Kevin:Speaking JtoJ we ought to keep this in
mind.
> >From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >
> Dave,> > > I can't understand why you
do not hang on every word Kevin posts!He> > > backs up
all of his biblical claims with scripture references, and not>
>just> > > one or two, with several to many. He backs up
what he claims about the> > > Mormon church with statements
from your own non-prophets and leaders.He> >has> >
> a passion for the Lord, and quite evidently has been called to
usethis> > > passion, and his knowledge of the Word, to
spread the gospel. I would> >expect> > > him to act
no differently on TT than he does on the street. Justbecause>
>he> > > does not fit your idea of what Truth Talk should
be does not mean that> >his> > > exchanges are not
meaningful. In fact, in terms of proclaiming the>
>gospel> >to> > > the unsaved, Kevin is probably
doing more on TT than any other poster.> >He> > >
steadfastly sticks to the message, not straying into the>
>pseudo-intellectual> > > realms of so many posts. Those
things are often titillating and fun to> > > ponder, but when
it comes down to it, either you believe or you don't.> >
>> > > Perry> > >> > > >From:
Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >
> >Reply-To: Tr
Re: [TruthTalk] Founder of Mormonism, was Mormon Underwear, was "bapti sm"
Kevn wrote: Satans footprints are all over your "religion" because he is the father of it. Joe was an occultist, "seized" by Satan see JSH 1 BLAINE: What do Satan's footprints look like, Kevin? What size shoe does he wear? You seem to recognize something no one else sees. Please be more descriptive/explicit. I saw pitures of some dinosaur footprints once in a book--there were some man's prints next to them--both were petrified, of course, very old. Just where are these footprints you are talking about? I want to see them and maybe photo them, then maybe I will get my name in some book and become a celebrity, like you and Ruben!! :-) Please note: message attached --- Begin Message --- Satans footprints are all over your "religion" because he is the father of it. Joe was an occultist, "seized" by Satan see JSH 1"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blaine: Yeah, I read it, Kevin. I am off work today, so have plenty of time. All it seems to be saying is that whenever the Saints are about to receive spiritual gifts, or other manifestations of God's love and mercy, the "man of sin," or the devil, tries to block it. He is the opposition. He works through you, Kevin, as you go to great lengths to discourage us from learning the truth. Wierd, though, often what you write has the opposite of your intended effect. It sure does on me. I actually enjoy some of what you dig up. LOLANYONE INTERESTED IN FOLLOWING this?Joe meets the ANGEL of LIGHT and is SEIZED and binds tongueJSH http://scriptures.lds.org/js_h/1 I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocallyAfter I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction I saw a pillar of lightWhat is with the SPIRIT of DUMBNESS?HC V1 p 175 HC chap XVON the 3rd1 of June, the Elders from the various parts of the country where they were laboring; Important came in; and the conference before appointed, convened in Kirtland; and the Lord displayed His power to the most perfect satisfaction of the Saints. The man of sin was revealed,2 and the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood was manifested and conferred for the first time upon several of the EldersfootnoteThe manner in which the man of sin was revealed and the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood manifested is related by John Whitmer in his History of the Church (ch. 7). After giving the names of those who were ordained High Priests the day on which the two powers were manifested he says: Joseph Smith, Jun. prophesied the day previous that the man of sin would be revealed While the Lord poured out His Spirit upon His servants the devil took a notion to make known his power He bound Harvey Whitlock and John Murdock so that they could not speak, and others were affected but the Lord showed to Joseph, the seer the design of the thing he commanded the devil in the name of Christ and he departed to our joy and comfort. CAN YOU SEE THE SIGNS?Parley P Pratt Autobiography p 72 "In this conference much instruction was given by President Smith, who spoke in great power, as he was moved upon by the Holy Ghost: and the spirtit of power and of testimony rested down upon the Elders in a marvelous manner. here also were some STRANGE MANIFESTATIONS of FALSE SPIRITS, which were immediately rebuked." SAME MANIFESTATION THAT OVERTOOK JOE IN THE SACRED GROVEIn Kirtland, Ohio, in June, 1831,... the first High Priests were ordained When they were ordained, right there at the time, the devil caught and bound Harvey Whitlock so he could not speak, his face twisted into demon-like shape. Also John Murdock and others were caught by the devil in a similar manner. Now brethren, do you not see that the displeasure of the Lord was upon their proceedings, in ordaining High Priests? Of course it was (AATABIC, pp...64-65).Account of missionaries to great britain Church History and Modern Revelation by Joseph Fielding Smith, pp. 98,99.It is recorded that about daybreak Sunday, July 10, 1837, Elder Isaac Russell who had been selected to preach at the Obelisk in Preston marketplace that day, and who occupied the second story of the lodging of the elders in Wilford Street, went up to the third loft where Elders Hyde and Kimball were sleeping, and called upon them to pray for him, that he might be delivered from the evil spirits that were tormenting him to such a degree that he felt he could not live long unless he obtained relief. The story is a most interesting one, but one that chil
[TruthTalk] To Sir With Love
Blaine: Hey has anyone read the Book, To Sir, With Love? Its almost out of print, maybe it is anyway, but I found it in the Syracuse, Utah public library--it was very good, left me with a "Noblesse Oblige" sort of feeling. Its about a Black man who was having a hard time finding a job using his training as an engineer, and ended up teaching school in a London slum school. He did a great job, and eventually won the hearts of his White-trash students, teaching them magnanimity towards other races, rather than their traditional bigotry. Inspiring book. ___ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] An Editorial on Mormons 2
Blaine you are straining so hard you are gonna hurt yourself. Your arguments are absurd. It is a shame you can never backup your ludicrous assertions. What are my evil deeds/words? ANSWER PLEASE I expect your usual answer " Blaine: My usual answer is: Teaching the gospel of Tradition mixed with a few selected scriptures--deceiving the people. Please note: message attached --- Begin Message --- Blaine you are straining so hard you are gonna hurt yourself. Your arguments are absurd. It is a shame you can never backup your ludicrous assertions. What are my evil deeds/words? ANSWER PLEASE I expect your usual answer " ""[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Judy wrote:Those are martyrs who died for the faith - such as the apostles who were all crucified under Nero, beheaded, or died in some other violent way. Kevin may join their number if he keeps tangling with Sodomites and others given to violence because ppl in overt sin don't want to hear about it. You, DaveH, Raymond, and Lance might not stone him literally but he regularly takes a beating with words... judytBlaine: Sadam Hussein takes a beating for his words, Hitler took and continues to take a beating for his words, Madonna takes a beating because of her wickedness, Christina Aguilera has been severely criticized, even by her own peers, etc. Taking a beating does not make one a martyr. There is a difference between a martyr and a person who suffers because of evil deeds/words. Just because Kevin goes out shouting a message does not mean anyone listens. I need data! If he has data, that he has been listened to, I would be glad to hear it. But I can't usually hear what Kevin says, because . . . Lance? Can you tell what I am thinking? :-)Please note: message attachedTo: truthtalk@mail.innglory.orgDate: Wed, 11 May 2005 14:50:00 -0400Subject: [TruthTalk] An Editorial on Mormons 2From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Judy: I don't know who this man is Blaine; all I can say is that "MAN LOOKS AT THE OUTWARD APPEARANCE" whereas God looks at the heart/motivation. **BLAINE: What tells us more about motivation that what a man or a church does? If Mormons do well, can you say they mean to do evil? As Jesus said, "A house divided against itself, cannot stand." Things are more often than not opposite to the way they appear - God's wisdom says "There is a way that seems right to a man and appears straight before him, but at the end of it is the way of death" (Prov 16:25 Ampl). I'm sure it's true that there are a lot of good (deceived) Mormon ppl. **Blaine: That's mighty charitable of you, Judy. Except I am absolutely convinced we are not at all deceived. It seems as though the deception if there is one is being carried out by the ministers who negate Mormonism at every turn, in any way possible. Do they ever say any good comes from Mormonism? Nope. If the foundations are wrong Blaine there is not much else a minister in good conscience can say. They don't want anyone to know the great amount of good Mormons do. In all honesty, I can't think of a single church that actually does the good the LDS Church does daily. I was on a mission for the LDS Church, among the poor. The Church has almost unlimited resources to help the worthy poor. I never saw a Mormon Bishop turn anyone down, worthy or no, for that matter. Feeding the body does not validate the spiritual poison being spread Blaine. God used Egypt for a season to feed His ppl during a time of famine but later He judged them. There is also the other side of the story; statistics from Utah which I'm sure Kevin could find as he has posted them before. **Blaine: Good thing for the negate-the-Mormons King, Kevin! He sure is good at finding dirt. If there is any anywhere, he will be sure to dig it up. LOL I believe I've written in the past about our daughter's friend who was born and raised in SLC. He gives an entirely other scenario about what it is like to live there as a non Mormon. and the scandals such as the false prophet who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart - and the Gary Gilmore saga; insisting on being shot through the heart because of some misguided teaching he had about "blood atonement" jt **BLAINE: Scandals? Since the fall of Adam, many unfortunate men of all faiths have done horrendous acts. Judas, after being under the direct influence of Jesus Christ, the perfect man, chose to betray his master. Cain, after the many righteous teachings he surely received from his righteous father Adam, nevertheless took his brother's life. Judas was destined to be the "son of perdition" and is the ONLY one Jesus lost of those
Re: [TruthTalk] Founder of Mormonism, was Mormon Underwear, was "bapti sm"
tly heard these spirits talk and express their wrath and hellish designs against us. However, the Lord delivered us from them, and blessed us exceedingly that day." Elder Hyde supplemented this description as follows: "Every circumstance that occurred at that scene of devils is just as fresh in my recollection at this moment as it was at the moment of its occurrence, and will ever remain so. After you were overcome by them and had fallen, their awful rush upon me with knives, threats, imprecations and hellish grins, amply convinced me that they were no friends of mine. While you were apparently senseless [page 100] and lifeless on the floor and upon the bed (after we had laid you there), I stood between you and the devils and fought them and contended with them face to face, until they began to diminish in number and to retreat from the room. The last imp that left turned around to me as he was going out and said, as if to apologize, and appease my determined opposition to them, 'I never said anything against you!' I replied to him thus: 'It matters not to me whether you have or have not; you are a liar from the beginning! In the name of Jesus Christ depart!' He immediately left, and the room was clear. That closed the scene of devils for the time." D.H.C. 2:503. "Life of Heber C. Kimball," pp. 130 131.) Missionary Letter dated: Sept. 2, 1837by Apostle Heber C. Kimball From The Elder's Journal, pp. 4-7 A singular circumstance occurred before morning, which I will quote from Brother Hyde's journal, as he wrote it down. He commences as follows: "Elder Russell was much troubled with evil spirits and came into the room where Elder Kimball and myself were sleeping and desired us to lay our hands on him and rebuke the evil spirit. I arose upon the bed and Br. Kimball got upon the floor and I sat upon the bed. We laid our hands on him and Brother Kimball rebuked and prayed for him but just before he had finished his prayer, his voice faltered and his mouth was shut and he began to tremble and reel to and fro and fell on the floor like a dead man, and uttered a deep groan. I immediately seized him by the shoulder and lifted him up, being satisfied that the devils were exceeding angry because we attempted to cast them out of Brother Russel and they made a powerful attempt upon Elder Kimball as if to dispatch him at once. They struck him senseless and he fell to the floor. Brother Russel and myself then laid our hands on Elder Kimball and rebuked the evil spirits, in the name of Jesus Christ, and immediately he recovered his strength in part so as to get up. The sweat began to roll from him most powerfully and he was almost as wet as if he had been taken out of the water. We could very sensibly hear the evil spirits rage and foam out their shame. Brother Kimball was quite weak for a day or two after. It seems that the devils are determined to destroy us and prevent the truth from being declared in England." The devil was mad because I was going to baptize and he wanted to destroy me that I should not do those things the Lord sent me to do. We had a great struggle to deliver ourselves from his hands. Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Perry wrote:>>Holey skivvies with masonic emblems on them...the square and the compass. >>Tools of the craft.Raymond wrote:>H... It's clear that you are in attack mode.Since when is mentioning a fact about mormon undergarments an attack? How can we reasonably discuss facts if, when I mention them, you perceive it as an attack?>But I would have you know that there major difference between masonic >rituals and LDS temple ceremony. Although, you wouldn't know that would >you.I know that there are differences...but it is the similarities that interest me. As for what I do and do not know, I am neither a freemason nor a mormon. So, I have learned what I know by reading about both. There may be errors in what I have read. If you see error in what I have read, and stated, then please correct me, but please give me references so I can verify them for myself.>The teachings in the temple have nothing to do with 'Tools of the craft.' >You've been reading to much anti-Mormon literature. You should spend more >time learning truth.I did not say that the teachings in the temple have anything to do with 'Tools of the craft'. I was referring specifically to the square and compass being 'tools of the craft', where 'the craft' is freemasonry, and their presence on mormon underwear. Do you know anyting about freemasonry? Are you a freemason?The thing that interests me about the 'tools of the craft' (freemasonry being 'the craft') being embroidered onto the mormon underwear is why JS chose to use these symbols of freemasonry on the underwear. Did he 'borrow' the symbology from fre
RE: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Darn! Another poor display of vocabulary. Izzy Blaine: I must be losing it, Izzy, what do you mean by this short but sweet comment? I am not experiencing any warm fuzzies from it. (serious) Please note: message attached --- Begin Message --- Darn! Another poor display of vocabulary. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 5:13 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Because you like it short: No! "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I appreciate your efforts, Raymond, but you have been misled by someone who mixed the Bible with a fairy tale and came up with a polluted message, a lie straight from the devil himself. I am sorry that you bought it; even sorrier that you do not seem inclined to question it. I realize that I cannot from a distance hope to change what you have been taught by those close to you. Only you can help yourself by diligently searching the real scriptures with a heart turned toward God. I will add you to my prayer list, but the Lord won't force you to change on my behalf. Too bad. I wish you could see. Terry BLAINE: Terry, will you also pray for me? Will you condescend to lower the ladder in my behalf? But . . . if, when the ladder is lowered, I find your ladder is leaning against a wall of straw, and it won't support me, will I nevertheless try to climb up to join you in your "heaven?" Probably not. Neither do I think Raymond will appreciate your condescension. Better that you pray for your own soul, and for the souls of those whom you deceive, and are deceived by the traditions, mixed here and there with a little bit of scripture, you put your trust in. But I will pray for you tonight, before I retire to my bed of sweet dreams, and see what God will do for you. I will let you know. Stay tuned, please. Please note: message attached Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:57:02 -0500 From: Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my gloryto bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first e
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
Blaine: Would you like me to pray for you too, Kevin? You sometimes seem so far out in left field. By the way, what do you think of the ACLU? They are, definitively, in left field, wouldn't you say? Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Because you like it short: No! "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I appreciate your efforts, Raymond, but you have been misled by someone who mixed the Bible with a fairy tale and came up with a polluted message, a lie straight from the devil himself. I am sorry that you bought it; even sorrier that you do not seem inclined to question it. I realize that I cannot from a distance hope to change what you have been taught by those close to you. Only you can help yourself by diligently searching the real scriptures with a heart turned toward God. I will add you to my prayer list, but the Lord won't force you to change on my behalf. Too bad. I wish you could see. Terry BLAINE: Terry, will you also pray for me? Will you condescend to lower the ladder in my behalf? But . . . if, when the ladder is lowered, I find your ladder is leaning against a wall of straw, and it won't support me, will I nevertheless try to climb up to join you in your "heaven?" Probably not. Neither do I think Raymond will appreciate your condescension. Better that you pray for your own soul, and for the souls of those whom you deceive, and are deceived by the traditions, mixed here and there with a little bit of scripture, you put your trust in. But I will pray for you tonight, before I retire to my bed of sweet dreams, and see what God will do for you. I will let you know. Stay tuned, please. Please note: message attached Please note: message attached --- Begin Message --- Are Jesus and Satan brothers? Because you like it short: No!"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I appreciate your efforts, Raymond, but you have been misled by someone who mixed the Bible with a fairy tale and came up with a polluted message, a lie straight from the devil himself. I am sorry that you bought it; even sorrier that you do not seem inclined to question it. I realize that I cannot from a distance hope to change what you have been taught by those close to you. Only you can help yourself by diligently searching the real scriptures with a heart turned toward God. I will add you to my prayer list, but the Lord won't force you to change on my behalf.Too bad. I wish you could see.TerryBLAINE: Terry, will you also pray for me? Will you condescend to lower the ladder in my behalf? But . . . if, when the ladder is lowered, I find your ladder is leaning against a wall of straw, and it won't support me, will I nevertheless try to climb up to join you in your "heaven?" Probably not. Neither do I think Raymond will appreciate your condescension. Better that you pray for your own soul, and for the souls of those whom you deceive, and are deceived by the traditions, mixed here and there with a little bit of scripture, you put your trust in. But I will pray for you tonight, before I retire to my bed of sweet dreams, and see what God will do for you. I will let you know. Stay tuned, please.Please note: message attachedDate: Wed, 11 May 2005 16:57:02 -0500From: Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry Im glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you dont mind, Id like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Fathers firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be Gods Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.&
Re: [TruthTalk] An Editorial on Mormons 2
Judy wrote: Those are martyrs who died for the faith - such as the apostles who were all crucified under Nero, beheaded, or died in some other violent way. Kevin may join their number if he keeps tangling with Sodomites and others given to violence because ppl in overt sin don't want to hear about it. You, DaveH, Raymond, and Lance might not stone him literally but he regularly takes a beating with words. judyt Blaine: Sadam Hussein takes a beating for his words, Hitler took and continues to take a beating for his words, Madonna takes a beating because of her wickedness, Christina Aguilera has been severely criticized, even by her own peers, etc. Taking a beating does not make one a martyr. There is a difference between a martyr and a person who suffers because of evil deeds/words. Just because Kevin goes out shouting a message does not mean anyone listens. I need data! If he has data, that he has been listened to, I would be glad to hear it. But I can't usually hear what Kevin says, because . . . Lance? Can you tell what I am thinking? :-) Please note: message attached --- Begin Message --- From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Judy: I don't know who this man is Blaine; all I can say is that "MAN LOOKS AT THE OUTWARD APPEARANCE" whereas God looks at the heart/motivation. **BLAINE: What tells us more about motivation that what a man or a church does? If Mormons do well, can you say they mean to do evil? As Jesus said, "A house divided against itself, cannot stand." Things are more often than not opposite to the way they appear - God's wisdom says "There is a way that seems right to a man and appears straight before him, but at the end of it is the way of death" (Prov 16:25 Ampl). I'm sure it's true that there are a lot of good (deceived) Mormon ppl. **Blaine: That's mighty charitable of you, Judy. Except I am absolutely convinced we are not at all deceived. It seems as though the deception if there is one is being carried out by the ministers who negate Mormonism at every turn, in any way possible. Do they ever say any good comes from Mormonism? Nope. If the foundations are wrong Blaine there is not much else a minister in good conscience can say. They don't want anyone to know the great amount of good Mormons do. In all honesty, I can't think of a single church that actually does the good the LDS Church does daily. I was on a mission for the LDS Church, among the poor. The Church has almost unlimited resources to help the worthy poor. I never saw a Mormon Bishop turn anyone down, worthy or no, for that matter. Feeding the body does not validate the spiritual poison being spread Blaine. God used Egypt for a season to feed His ppl during a time of famine but later He judged them. There is also the other side of the story; statistics from Utah which I'm sure Kevin could find as he has posted them before. **Blaine: Good thing for the negate-the-Mormons King, Kevin! He sure is good at finding dirt. If there is any anywhere, he will be sure to dig it up. LOL I believe I've written in the past about our daughter's friend who was born and raised in SLC. He gives an entirely other scenario about what it is like to live there as a non Mormon. and the scandals such as the false prophet who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart - and the Gary Gilmore saga; insisting on being shot through the heart because of some misguided teaching he had about "blood atonement" jt **BLAINE: Scandals? Since the fall of Adam, many unfortunate men of all faiths have done horrendous acts. Judas, after being under the direct influence of Jesus Christ, the perfect man, chose to betray his master. Cain, after the many righteous teachings he surely received from his righteous father Adam, nevertheless took his brother's life. Judas was destined to be the "son of perdition" and is the ONLY one Jesus lost of those given to Him by the Father. Cain was warned about "sin lying at the door" - Oh and incidentally following the fall Adam was not righteous, he had chosen another master. You may condemn the sinner, but not the Church or righteous man that taught him to abstain from sin. You have to discriminate between what they were actually taught by their respective religions, and what they took it upon themselves to do by their own choices. No Mormon was ever taught by the LDS Church to do any of these things. As for Gary Gilmore, the Bible teaches blood atonement!! The Bible does not teach what Gary Gilmore believed. He is not now righteous because he went in front of a firing squad to atone for killing that gas station attendant. There is only one way to become righteous and Gary Gilmore was not taught that way. His mother was a devout Mormon and his father was abusive
RE: [TruthTalk] An Editorial on Mormons 2
Blaine: Now, now. She would have a choice, as all decent girls do, whether Mormon or no. Granted, some girls-of-the-world like going naked, or near so. I see them on TV more and more often. Names such as Brittany Spears, Christina Aguilara, Madonna, etc. Too bad these girls did not get an early dose of Mormonism . . . But then, they would never have been celebrities, huh? I wonder if this heathen realizes what kind of underwear his daughter would be forced to wear. Izzy Now that I have daughters of my own, some of their boys have dated my daughters. I would be privileged if one of them were to be my son-in-law. Please note: message attached --- Begin Message --- I wonder if this heathen realizes what kind of underwear his daughter would be forced to wear. Izzy Now that I have daughters of my own, some of their boys have dated my daughters. I would be privileged if one of them were to be my son-in-law. --- End Message ---
RE: [TruthTalk] baptism
BLAINE: LOL Ummm, actually, no. There you go, taking things out of context--again!! -- "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You were describing Mormons, correct? Izzy -Original Message- BLAINE:Neither of them believe the Bible unless it just happens to fit their peculiar (very peculiar) set of beliefs/un-beliefs. They rationalize constantly to make a "fit" between what they want others to believe and what is actually being taught by the Bible. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ___ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism
Perry wrote: In fact, in terms of proclaiming the > >gospel > >to > > > the unsaved, Kevin is probably doing more on TT than any other poster. > >He > > > steadfastly sticks to the message, not straying into the > >pseudo-intellectual > > > realms of so many posts. Those things are often titillating and fun to > > > ponder, but when it comes down to it, either you believe or you don't. > > > > > > Perry BLAINE: I don't. Not the gospel of traditions, popular gain-sayings, etc., mixed with a few selected scriptures that Kevin teaches, at least. :-) Please note: message attached --- Begin Message --- Wasn't it Lance's buddy who left TT after cursing at me? Jail? What are you talking about? Is canaDuH that messed up?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I think that some time in the hoosegow (do they still call it that Terry?) would do Kevin a world of good. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 11, 2005 15:58 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism And that would be your loss Lance ... Pray they will grace Ontario with a visit - jt On Wed, 11 May 2005 15:50:06 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I wouldn't cross the street to see the 'cow suit' or, for that matter, Kevin. From: Judy Taylor From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>I know Jesus. Kevin is no Jesus. Very bad illustration, Charles Perry Locke. (heretofor 'Chuckie' after the films) The Jesus you know is not the same being Lance. Yours is complacent and has a gospel that was never preached by Paul or any of the apostles. Have you heard Kevin preaching on the street or are you judging what you have experienced and giving your opinion re something you know nothing of? I thought the tactics of Chuck Spingola were a little over the top - But have repented of that because - They are out there I'll go to see Ruben in his cow suit if he ever comes to VA - Waving that underwear gets more than a yawn :). jt From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> Lance, do you think Jesus was giving Christianity a "bad rap" when he> overturned the moneylenders' tables in the temple? Instead, should he have> quoted some 2nd century BC greek philospopher on the existential qualities> of selling in the temple, then entered into meaningful dialog about what the> philosopher really meant, whether or not it applies today, and then> discussed how different interpretations of the scripture (OT) fit in with> the philosophy? Lets be Real Christians, okay?> >From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >It amazes me that could could ask this of Dave, Perry! ,at least without a> >'smiley'. Kevin is a jerk and, he comes accross as one (I probably do as> >well) on TT. I bet he does 'on the street' also. It is such that give> >christianity a bad rep. He probably sees himself as 'suffering for the> >cause> >of Christ' whereas it's just the 'jerk factor' in play.> >> >Kevin:Speaking JtoJ we ought to keep this in mind. > >From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > Dave,> > > I can't understand why you do not hang on every word Kevin posts!He> > > backs up all of his biblical claims with scripture references, and not> >just> > > one or two, with several to many. He backs up what he claims about the> > > Mormon church with statements from your own non-prophets and leaders.He> >has> > > a passion for the Lord, and quite evidently has been called to usethis> > > passion, and his knowledge of the Word, to spread the gospel. I would> >expect> > > him to act no differently on TT than he does on the street. Justbecause> >he> > > does not fit your idea of what Truth Talk should be does not mean that> >his> > > exchanges are not meaningful. In fact, in terms of proclaiming the> >gospel> >to> > > the unsaved, Kevin is probably doing more on TT than any other poster.> >He> > > steadfastly sticks to the message, not straying into the> >pseudo-intellectual> > > realms of so many posts. Those things are often titillating and fun to> > > ponder, but when it comes down to it, either you believe or you don't.> > >> > > Perry> > >> > > >From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> > > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> > > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] baptism> > > >Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 23:
Re: [TruthTalk] Are Jesus and Satan brothers?
I appreciate your efforts, Raymond, but you have been misled by someone who mixed the Bible with a fairy tale and came up with a polluted message, a lie straight from the devil himself. I am sorry that you bought it; even sorrier that you do not seem inclined to question it. I realize that I cannot from a distance hope to change what you have been taught by those close to you. Only you can help yourself by diligently searching the real scriptures with a heart turned toward God. I will add you to my prayer list, but the Lord won't force you to change on my behalf. Too bad. I wish you could see. Terry BLAINE: Terry, will you also pray for me? Will you condescend to lower the ladder in my behalf? But . . . if, when the ladder is lowered, I find your ladder is leaning against a wall of straw, and it won't support me, will I nevertheless try to climb up to join you in your "heaven?" Probably not. Neither do I think Raymond will appreciate your condescension. Better that you pray for your own soul, and for the souls of those whom you deceive, and are deceived by the traditions, mixed here and there with a little bit of scripture, you put your trust in. But I will pray for you tonight, before I retire to my bed of sweet dreams, and see what God will do for you. I will let you know.Stay tuned, please. Please note: message attached --- Begin Message --- Bothoms wrote: Hi Terry– I’m glad to see that you are open-minded and willing to let me respond to these questions. If you don’t mind, I’d like to answer these questions one at a time. DO LATTER-DAY SAINTS BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND SATAN ARE OR WERE BROTHERS? To give a proper answer, this will take a bit of explanation. First, most non-LDS Christians believe in the pre-mortality of Jesus. We do also. We also believe that all who live on this earth, past and present, lived before with God in Heaven. We believe that God is literally the Father of our spirits. "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb 12:9) "Have we not all one father?..." (Mal 2:10a) "One God and Father of all..." (Eph 4:6a) "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl 12:7) Being children of God we were all brothers and sisters. Jesus, known as Jehovah in the OT, was our Father’s firstborn. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. (Heb 1:6) In mortality, Jesus would be God’s Only Begotten. Jeremiah was informed that he lived before he was born. "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:4-5) Our Father presented a plan to us. "And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:38-40) While we were in the presence of God we walked by sight; now, our memories are taken away and we walk by faith. "There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." (Eccl 1:11) "And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; and we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; and they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abr 4:24-26) Lucifer seeks power. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne about the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most high." (Isa 14:13-14) A Savior is Chosen. "And I, the Lord God, sake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name on mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
BLAINE: I maintain as usual that Kevin and Perry are a pair of wolves in sheep's clothing. Neither of them believe the Bible unless it just happens to fit their peculiar (very peculiar) set of beliefs/un-beliefs. They rationalize constantly to make a "fit" between what they want others to believe and what is actually being taught by the Bible. Their stance on Baptism is a perfect example. Jesus was not only baptized "to fulfill ALL righteousness," (TO SET THE PERFECT EXAMPLE,) but went about himself baptizing. In the very last chapter of Luke, next to last verse, he commissioned the apostles to go forth to all the world. He said: "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, BAPTIZING them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe ALL things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end." By the way, when Mormons baptize, they say these exact words: "Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." It is a set prayer. So I must ask, who does the Father's will as outlined clearly in the Bible, Mormons, or Kevin and Perry? Kevin and Perry, are you guys even Christians? Lance wrote: Kevin is no Jesus. Very bad illustration, Charles Perry Locke. (heretofor 'Chuckie' after the films) The Jesus you know is not the same being Lance. Yours is complacent and has a gospel that was never preached by Paul or any of the apostles. Have you heard Kevin preaching on the street or are you judging what you have experienced and giving your opinion re something you know nothing of? I thought the tactics of Chuck Spingola were a little over the top - But have repented of that because - They are out there I'll go to see Ruben in his cow suit if he ever comes to VA - Waving that underwear gets more than a yawn :). jt ___ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk]
Well, here I am again, and still on JUNO. They don't really totally un-subscribe you just 'cause you ask--you get free e-mail instead, but with more ads and far less storage space--from 32MB down to two. But at no cost, I can't complain. So, just send me a little note once in awhile. I am still listening. If I find a carrier I like, I will subscribe to it, but meanwhile, JUNO is where it is at. Blaine -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It amazes me that could could ask this of Dave, Perry! ,at least without a 'smiley'. Kevin is a jerk and, he comes accross as one on TT. I bet he does 'on the street' also. It is such that give christianity a bad rep. He probably sees himself as 'suffering for the cause of Christ' whereas it's just the 'jerk factor' in play. BLAINE: As you said, Lance, "truth is the operative word." (: I never heard of the 'jerk factor.' That's a new one. ROTFL ___ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] Fw: Urgent: Gay marriage coming to Utah?
-- Forwarded Message -- - Original Message - From: "Grassfire.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:29 AM Subject: Urgent: Gay marriage coming to Utah? > + + A new Massachusetts court case aims to bring > homosexual "marriage" to Utah > > (Please forward to your friends) > > > 5/10/05 > > Wayne, > > The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court has taken up a case > that could greatly impact children and families in Utah. > > Because you have stood with Grassfire to save marriage, we are > rushing you this update. Here's what's happening. > > The same Massachusetts court that first forced "gay marriage" on > the American people, has announced that it will hear a challenge > to a Massachusetts law that prohibits out-of-state citizens from > marrying in Massachusetts. > > The goal of this new case is to export Massachusetts "gay > marriages" to your state. > > You see, homosexual activists and their radical allies are not > content to have destroyed marriage in one state. They want to > destroy marriage -- as the union of male and female -- in every > state in the nation . . . including Utah. > > If they succeed in this case, homosexual activists from Utah > will be able to go to Massachusetts and then bring so-called > homosexual "marriage" back to your state. And they will sue in > federal court to have all of your state marriage laws -- including > any state marriage amendment -- struck down by a federal > judge. > > Of course, what they will really be bringing to Utah will > NOT be marriage at all. They will be forcing the destruction of > marriage -- as understood by humanity for millennia -- on the > children and families of Utah. > > The American people -- and the people of Utah -- want the > law to send a positive message to children about marriage, family > and their own future. But homosexual organizations -- backed by > activist judges in Massachusetts -- are determined to overcome > the will of the people. > > + + Action Item #1 > > Grassfire is working with our partners at Alliance For Marriage > to rally citizens to stand against this legal assault on marriage. > Here are two important action items: > > #1 Please ask your friends to sign our "Stop the Legal Attack on > Marriage" petition. Right now, the hottest battles for marriage > are taking place in the courts and we want to rally an additional > 50,000 citizens right away: > > http://www.grassfire.net/58/petition.asp?PID=8474687 > > + + Action Item #2 > > Our partners at AFM are at the center of these legal battles, > having filed legal briefs across the nation. But AFM needs your > help to fight these battles and continue to rally millions in > support of marriage. > > Would you please consider a special gift today to help > AFM right now? Click here: > > http://www.grassfire.net/6032/offer.asp?rid=8474687 > > + + Gift to you > > If you can help with any gift, our friends at AFM will send you > one of their newly-designed "Protect Marriage" bumper stickers. > These stickers make a strong statement for marriage at this > crucial time. > > Please click here: > > http://www.grassfire.net/6032/offer.asp?rid=8474687 > > Thanks again for standing for marriage! > > > Your friends at Grassfire > Partner with Alliance For Marriage > > P.S. Utah residents could be greatly impacted by this new > Massachusetts case. This is an effort to destroy the laws of your > state -- with negative consequences for our children and > grandchildren! Please help Grassfire stand with our partners at > Alliance For Marriage on this crucial issue. > > P.P.S. If you can donate $20 or more, AFM will send you three > "Protect Marriage" stickers -- one to keep and two to share with > friends. > > + + Sign our "Stop the Legal Attack on Marriage" petition: > > http://www.grassfire.net/58/petition.asp?PID=8474687 > > + + Help AFM and receive a special gift: > > http://www.grassfire.net/6032/offer.asp?rid=8474687 > > --- > For Wayne Holmes to unsubscribe, please click: > http://www.grassfire.net/unsubscribe_form.asp?CID=58&RID=8474687 > --- > > You are signed up as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your email address: > Change > email > > > > ___ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
Debbie, I thought I had missed your reply, but am glad I found it, delayed though it was. From the general tone of your reply(s)I can tell you are one of the "sincere" Christians DaveH described when he welcomed Raymond to TT. There are several others on TT who may fit this category, too, but there are also a few I have DEEP reservations about. They seem to like arguing, and seem to know certain scriptures that support their views, but otherwise I believe they fit the definition of "ravenous wolves" who enter the flock in sheep's clothing. (: I am not asking you to share my perceptions, of course, but you nevertheless probably know who I am referring to. (: I will be going off TT on May 11th, because I have cancelled my subscription to JUNO, my internet carrier. I tried twice to unsubscribe to TT, but for some reason, I am still getting messages, and that being the case, I figured I might as well continue answeriing messages. At least I got to read your reply. (: I may have to re-subscribe later, after I find what I am looking for in the way of a provider. Take Good Care, BlaineRB -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk]
Hi folks, I need to apologize for the very inappropriate behavior of Charles Perry Locke, the TT'r who boldly sent all of you a message and invitation to join TT after I had done so myself. I made the mistake of including TT on the message, and once Perry got ahold of it, it was out of my hands. I am hereby withdrawing my invitation for any of you to join the site, although if you choose to do so, good luck. I initially tried to unsubscribe from TT in order to temporarily reduce the volume, as I was in process of changing my net carrier. I am very unhappy with JUNO. But I now see TT as being similar to some sites where you have to shut off your computer to escape! (: All of my attempts to unsubscribe have gone unheeded! This is too compulsive for me. As of May 11th, any messages sent to me will be automatically returned. Juno does not provide for keeping messages or addresses stored on my computer--everything is kept on the Juno computers, and one has to constantly access Big Brother Juno to carry on e-mail activities. I have copied your addresses from my list, and will contact you when and IF I find another internet provider I like. Take Care, sorry for the bother. BlaineBorrowman -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] baptism
ideth for ever." John 5:24, "Verily, verily, I say onto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." In addition the verse shows that there must be TWO births (Born again - second birth) one physical "born of flesh" (vs 6) as when in the "Mothers Womb" the "water" brakes and one spiritual birth "born of spirit" (vs 6). in verse 12 we have the contrast again of "earthly things"(physical) and "heavenly things"(spiritual) Now don't miss this; NOTICE in verse 6 Jesus says That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit Notably he does not say, That which is born of water and the Spirit. nor "he that is born of Baptism" So he is talking of two Births here: BORN of FLESH & BORN of SPIRIT! If it is still not clear see verse 15 which tells us who is saved "whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have eternal life." Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Question who is the one that is damned? "he that BELIEVETH not" It all hinges on Believing! It is good to be baptised but not essential. Baptism is a PUBLIC profession of a spiritual new birth. It does not save. It declares salvation. EXAMPLES of those that were saved independent of baptism Acts 10:43 Peter says to the non-Christian Cornelius and his household, whoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter is still preaching, the Holy Spirit is poured out on this group, without Baptism. Luke 7:37-50 "Wherefore I say unto thee, Her SINS, which are many, are FORGIVEN; for she loved much: but to whom little is FORGIVEN, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy SINS are FORGIVEN. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy FAITH hath SAVED thee; go in peace." Jesus plainly stated that the women was immediately forgiven and was now saved by faith. She knelt at the feet of Jesus, trusted Him, and went away a saved woman. She was saved without baptism. Luke 18:35-43 healing/conversion of a blind man. VS 42 "And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee." The publican, Luke 18:13, 14 Standing there in the Temple, he prayed saying: "God be merciful to me a sinner," Jesus says "I tell you, this man went down to his house justified!" The thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43 Was not baptised. One was saved that we might have hope One was LOST that we might not presume. The Book of Mormon is described as containing the fullness of the everlasting gospel DC 27:5 Why does the Book of Mormon not contain such teaching, if Baptism is a central teaching of the LDS Church? Where then is the EVIDENCE that the people of the BoM knew of or practised baptism, let alone PROXY Baptism? The Book of Mormon teaches baptism is a covenant for mortal life. Mosiah 18:13 And when he had said these words, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him, and he said, Helam, I baptize thee, having authority from Almighty God, as a testimony that ye have entered into a covenant to serve him until you are dead, as to the mortal body. Alma 34:34,35, teaches " Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis [death], that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. "For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked" "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Folks, just thought I'd send a little sample of what keeps my thoughts sharpened re: the gospel--I belong to TruthTalk, an e-group dedicated (?) to the truth. (: Instructions for joining this group are forthcoming in the next e-mail--it would be fun to have a bunch of dedicated MORMONS on with Dave Hansen and myself!!! KEVIN is one of the street preachers who descend on Salt Lake City during the Spring and Autumn conferences of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He does not believe baptism is necessary for salvation. He (and Izzy) thinks Mormons are not Christians, even. (: BLAINE: I wrote the below some time ago--have not as yet seen an answer--maybe I missed something? Hey Kevin, why did Jesus insist on being baptized? Answer that question d
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?
Blaine: Yes. Just three that post, although I believe there are others who read the posts but are seldom active. DaveH has been here forever. He's a pro. I have been here twice or so, sometimes get too busy to handle all the volume. There are some very sincere Christians here, but unfortunately deceived! (: Hi Blaine-- It's good to be posting with you again. We make a good team. I also look forward to reading DaveH's posts. Are the three of us the only LDS here? --Raymond "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: BLAINE: Amen, Raymond, Amen. We needed some new blood on TT. These guys been gangin' up on poor little ol' DaveH and me. (: -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?
Blaine: Yes. Just three that post, although I believe there are others who read the posts but are seldom active. DaveH has been here forever. He's a pro. I have been here twice or so, sometimes get too busy to handle all the volume. There are some very sincere Christians here, but unfortunately deceived! (: Hi Blaine-- It's good to be posting with you again. We make a good team. I also look forward to reading DaveH's posts. Are the three of us the only LDS here? --Raymond "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: BLAINE: Amen, Raymond, Amen. We needed some new blood on TT. These guys been gangin' up on poor little ol' DaveH and me. (: -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?
lot of people. I know a few.-- I dont think you know much about masonry, nor do you know much about Joseph Smith. You know even less about the temple ceremony except for the rhetoric that you have learned to spout. You would do well to learn and follow the counsel of Gamaliel. And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: but if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. (Acts 5:38-39) --Raymond -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
Blaine: Just for the record, so as to answer the question, what is faith, I reply the following: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Now, I have a question for Debbie and TT's in general: The stance taken by many on TT has been that the Bible is the only word of God. If this is so, then why do you all deny so many parts of it? Take Baptism for instance. Kevin and, I assume Perry too, deny it is needed for salvation, yet it is clearly practiced as a fundamental ordinance throughout the NT. The same for Revelation beyond what is written in the Bible. How come you are so inconsistent here? This makes me conclude you people are just arguing for argument's sake, and are not interested in the truth. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] CAUTION: Mormon redefinition Alert!
Dear Perry, For an answer to your questions, Perry, please read section 76 of the D&C--it is, I understand, on-line. As to a general reply, I can only say that you seem to have the truth confused with what is familiar to just little ol' you. If it is not in the Bible, or within the realm of your limited experience, it can't be true, is that your theme? This is not only narrow reasoning, but actually sounds a little silly to the ear of one like myself who is open to all truth, regardless of where it might occur or be found. I think you believe you are a Christian, yet you do not believe as Christians did in the apostolic church. Baptism is an issue currently being discussed, what is your stand--needed or not needed for salvation? I have noticed Kevin seems to be having a tough time defending his position that baptism is not needed for salvation. Please, let's stay with this until we are perhaps able to draw some mutually agreed upon conclusions. Your many questions below are too many for me to answer in the first place, and are, I think, calculated to draw us away from this critical issue of Baptism. Blaine -- "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blaine, I know when you say "paradise", as a mormon, you men something differnt than when a Christian says "Paradise". And now our fellow TT'rs do, too. Thanks for pointing that out. But I must also warn our wary readers that when a mormon says "hell", it may sound as though they are talking about the same "Hell" as Christians, but they are not. Will you tell the good people a few things (unless you decide to ignore these questions like the ones for which I continue to wait for an answer. I know, the dog ate your homework, or whatever). Why not tell the good people of TT who the mormon hell is reserved for, and the difference between the mormon hell and the real Hell. Then, tell us who ends up in hell, and who makes it to the terrestrial, telestial, and celestial kingdoms of mormondom. By the way, to whom must obedient mormons give the secret handshake to enter the celestial kingdom? And, who gets called out of their grave by their secret name, and who does calls out that name? And they (the mormons) say they are not a cult. Thanks, Perry >From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] baptism >Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 20:17:44 GMT > > > >BLAINE: Good point. I read something on that the other day--it has to do >with the word "paradise." I will have to find out where I was reading >that, but I think the word was the result of a mistranslation, and simply >meant "the world of spirits." I would not, however, pretend to judge the >thief and contest that he ended up in any place other than a good one, as I >believe God is just and takes many things into consideration. For example, >what about little children who die without baptism, as millions of third >world children do? And do we consign all Muslims to hell? Hardly. God is >just, as well as merciful, and only He can make judgements regards these >cases that fall outside the Christian view. As a Mormon Christian, I >believe God has told us some things that apply to us, but many of his >judgements he reserves to Himself. Judge not (rashly), that ye be not >judged (rashly), in other words; or, "Judgement is mine," saith the Lord. > >-- > >"ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >BTW, Blaine, maybe you covered this already, but how did the guy on the >cross next to Jesus go to Paradise if he wasn't baptized? Izzy > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:12 PM >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] baptism > >Blaine, FYI you are not one who is in a position to determine who is/isn't >a >Christian, since you aren't one. Therefore, I, being a Christian, can >assure >you that Kevin is one. Izzy > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:34 PM >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] baptism > > >BLAINE: As I have said many times before, Kevin has his own religion, >which >is not Christian. He selects obscure passages that justify his vanity. >Hey >Kevin, why did Jesus insist on being baptized? Answer that question >directly without trying to get the issue sidetracked, OK? (HINT: to >fulfill ALL righteouness) > >Faith - without works > >B
RE: [TruthTalk] baptism
Hi Folks, just thought I'd send a little sample of what keeps my thoughts sharpened re: the gospel--I belong to TruthTalk, an e-group dedicated (?) to the truth. (: Instructions for joining this group are forthcoming in the next e-mail--it would be fun to have a bunch of dedicated MORMONS on with Dave Hansen and myself!!! KEVIN is one of the street preachers who descend on Salt Lake City during the Spring and Autumn conferences of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He does not believe baptism is necessary for salvation. He (and Izzy) thinks Mormons are not Christians, even. (: BLAINE: I wrote the below some time ago--have not as yet seen an answer--maybe I missed something? Hey Kevin, why did Jesus insist on being baptized? Answer that question directly without trying to get the issue sidetracked, OK? (HINT: to fulfill ALL righteouness--duh) Receiving an assurance of her salvation did not mean the woman in question (see Kevin's comments below)did not need baptism, as baptism was obviously an ordinance the Lord required of all of his disciples. He said so Himself Much is not included in the Bible, so we don't have a record of this woman's actual baptism, nor the baptisms of many other disciples. Yet reason tells us that if baptism was needed by the Lord of Heaven "to fulfill all righeousness," it was needed by this woman and ALL others, as well. I assure you, Kevin, this woman and all other disciples who were physically able to do so were baptized. See some (but not all) references to the need for baptism below: John 3:5: "Except a man be born of the water, . . . " John 3:22: "After these things came Jesus and His disciples into the land of Judea; and there He tarried with them AND BAPTIZED." Mark 16:15-16: "And He (Jesus) said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED; BUT HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT SHALL BE DAMNED. ETC., ETC., ETC., BLAINE says "I think the word was the result of a mistranslation" Why is it that when a TT'er can't answer it is Always a problem with the Bible??? WHOA hold on before you go all over looking for loopholes in Paradise! WHAT OF THESE??? EXAMPLES of those that were saved independent of baptism Skip the 3 card monty stuff, answer please. Luke 7:37-50 "Wherefore I say unto thee, Her SINS, which are many, are FORGIVEN; for she loved much: but to whom little is FORGIVEN, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy SINS are FORGIVEN. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy FAITH hath SAVED thee; go in peace." JUST IN CASE U MISSED IT: Jesus plainly stated that the women was immediately forgiven and was now SAVED by faith. She knelt at the feet of Jesus, trusted Him, and went away a saved woman. She was saved without baptism. Luke 18:35-43 healing/conversion of a blind man. VS 42 "And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath SAVED thee." The publican, Luke 18:13, 14 Standing there in the Temple, he prayed saying: "God be merciful to me a sinner," Jesus says "I tell you, this man went down to his house JUSTIFIED!" The thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43 Was not baptised. One was saved that we might have hope One was LOST that we might not presume. "ShieldsFamily" wrote: BTW, Blaine, maybe you covered this already, but how did the guy on the cross next to Jesus go to Paradise if he wasn't baptized? Izzy "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: BLAINE: Good point. I read something on that the other day--it has to do with the word "paradise." I will have to find out where I was reading that, but I think the word was the result of a mistranslation, and simply meant "the world of spirits." I would not, however, pretend to judge the thief and contest that he ended up in any place other than a good one, as I believe God is just and takes many things into consideration. For example, what about little children who die without baptism, as millions of third world children do? And do we consign all Muslims to hell? Hardly. God is just, as well as merciful, and only He can make judgements regards these cases that fall outside the Christian view. As a Mormon Christian, I believe God has told us some things that apply to us, but many of his judgements he reserves to Himself. Judge not (rashly), that ye be not judged (rashly), in other words; or, "Judgement is mine," saith the Lord. -- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:12 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] baptism
RE: [TruthTalk] baptism
BLAINE: I wrote the below some time ago--have not as yet seen an answer--maybe I missed something? Hey Kevin, why did Jesus insist on being baptized? Answer that question directly without trying to get the issue sidetracked, OK? (HINT: to fulfill ALL righteousness) Receiving an assurance of her salvation did not mean the woman in question did not need baptism, as baptism was obviously an ordinance the Lord required of all of his disciples. He said so Himself Much is not included in the Bible, so we don't have a record of this woman's actual baptism, nor the baptisms of many other disciples. Yet reason tells us that if baptism was needed by the Lord of Heaven "to fulfill all righteousness," it was needed by this woman and ALL others, as well. I assure you, Kevin, this woman and all other disciples who were physically able to do so were baptized. See some (but not all) references to the need for baptism below: John 3:5: "Except a man be born of the water, . . . " John 3:22: "After these things came Jesus and His disciples into the land of Judea; and there He tarried with them AND BAPTIZED." Mark 16:15-16: "And He (Jesus) said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED; BUT HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT SHALL BE DAMNED. ETC., ETC., ETC., BLAINE says "I think the word was the result of a mistranslation" Why is it that when a TT'er can't answer it is Always a problem with the Bible??? WHOA hold on before you go all over looking for loopholes in Paradise! WHAT OF THESE??? EXAMPLES of those that were saved independent of baptism Skip the 3 card monty stuff, answer please. Luke 7:37-50 "Wherefore I say unto thee, Her SINS, which are many, are FORGIVEN; for she loved much: but to whom little is FORGIVEN, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy SINS are FORGIVEN. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy FAITH hath SAVED thee; go in peace." JUST IN CASE U MISSED IT: Jesus plainly stated that the women was immediately forgiven and was now SAVED by faith. She knelt at the feet of Jesus, trusted Him, and went away a saved woman. She was saved without baptism. Luke 18:35-43 healing/conversion of a blind man. VS 42 "And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath SAVED thee." The publican, Luke 18:13, 14 Standing there in the Temple, he prayed saying: "God be merciful to me a sinner," Jesus says "I tell you, this man went down to his house JUSTIFIED!" The thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43 Was not baptised. One was saved that we might have hope One was LOST that we might not presume. "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: BLAINE: Good point. I read something on that the other day--it has to do with the word "paradise." I will have to find out where I was reading that, but I think the word was the result of a mistranslation, and simply meant "the world of spirits." I would not, however, pretend to judge the thief and contest that he ended up in any place other than a good one, as I believe God is just and takes many things into consideration. For example, what about little children who die without baptism, as millions of third world children do? And do we consign all Muslims to hell? Hardly. God is just, as well as merciful, and only He can make judgements regards these cases that fall outside the Christian view. As a Mormon Christian, I believe God has told us some things that apply to us, but many of his judgements he reserves to Himself. Judge not (rashly), that ye be not judged (rashly), in other words; or, "Judgement is mine," saith the Lord. -- "ShieldsFamily" wrote: BTW, Blaine, maybe you covered this already, but how did the guy on the cross next to Jesus go to Paradise if he wasn't baptized? Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:12 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] baptism Blaine, FYI you are not one who is in a position to determine who is/isn't a Christian, since you aren't one. Therefore, I, being a Christian, can assure you that Kevin is one. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:34 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] baptism BLAINE: As I have said many times before, Kevin has his own religion, which is not Christian. He selects obscure passages that justify his vanity. Hey Kevin, why did Jesus insist on being baptized? Answer that question directly without trying to get
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
BLAINE: Sorry Kevin, I guess I just like to needle people who tell me all the time I am not a christian. (: Don't take it personally, you are a well beloved person, who never fails to answer my e-posts. Guess you can't be too bad, huh? (: BLAINE: Does this mean you don't like to work for a living, Kevin? (: Is this some kind of Character attack? I hold a very pressure, filled high intensity job. It carries much responsibility. What are you saying & where does this come from? -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] baptism
BLAINE: Good point. I read something on that the other day--it has to do with the word "paradise." I will have to find out where I was reading that, but I think the word was the result of a mistranslation, and simply meant "the world of spirits." I would not, however, pretend to judge the thief and contest that he ended up in any place other than a good one, as I believe God is just and takes many things into consideration. For example, what about little children who die without baptism, as millions of third world children do? And do we consign all Muslims to hell? Hardly. God is just, as well as merciful, and only He can make judgements regards these cases that fall outside the Christian view. As a Mormon Christian, I believe God has told us some things that apply to us, but many of his judgements he reserves to Himself. Judge not (rashly), that ye be not judged (rashly), in other words; or, "Judgement is mine," saith the Lord. -- "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: BTW, Blaine, maybe you covered this already, but how did the guy on the cross next to Jesus go to Paradise if he wasn't baptized? Izzy -Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:12 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] baptism Blaine, FYI you are not one who is in a position to determine who is/isn't a Christian, since you aren't one. Therefore, I, being a Christian, can assure you that Kevin is one. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:34 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] baptism BLAINE: As I have said many times before, Kevin has his own religion, which is not Christian. He selects obscure passages that justify his vanity. Hey Kevin, why did Jesus insist on being baptized? Answer that question directly without trying to get the issue sidetracked, OK? (HINT: to fulfill ALL righteouness) Faith - without works BLAINE: Does this mean you don't like to work for a living, Kevin? (: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: DAVEH: I concur, Kevin. Faith is certainly a key element of salvation, but I do not think it is the only element necessary for salvation. How do you see it, Kevindo you believe faith is the only necessary element of salvation? DAVEH: Hey KevinDo you have a problem with me using 1Cor 15:29 in support of other Biblical passages that become cumulative evidence that the Primitive Christians believed a water baptism was necessary for salvation? It does lead one to that logical conclusion, does it not? Christians of all ages accept the clear teaching that salvation is by Faith -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] baptism
Hiya Izzy! First of all, I hate arguing with beautiful women, especially Christians. On the other hand, I love giving people who say I am not a Christian a hard time, especially Kevin. (: Now, what kind of dilemma are you posing for me? I will defer any further comment . . . for now, at least, OK? Blaine -- "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blaine, FYI you are not one who is in a position to determine who is/isn't a Christian, since you aren't one. Therefore, I, being a Christian, can assure you that Kevin is one. Izzy -Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:34 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] baptism BLAINE: As I have said many times before, Kevin has his own religion, which is not Christian. He selects obscure passages that justify his vanity. Hey Kevin, why did Jesus insist on being baptized? Answer that question directly without trying to get the issue sidetracked, OK? (HINT: to fulfill ALL righteouness) Faith - without works BLAINE: Does this mean you don't like to work for a living, Kevin? (: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: DAVEH: I concur, Kevin. Faith is certainly a key element of salvation, but I do not think it is the only element necessary for salvation. How do you see it, Kevindo you believe faith is the only necessary element of salvation? DAVEH: Hey KevinDo you have a problem with me using 1Cor 15:29 in support of other Biblical passages that become cumulative evidence that the Primitive Christians believed a water baptism was necessary for salvation? It does lead one to that logical conclusion, does it not? Christians of all ages accept the clear teaching that salvation is by Faith -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
Kevin wrote: Christians of all ages accept the clear teaching that salvation is by Faith BLAINE: As a Christian, I also believe salvation is by faith, since only by faith can we please God. However, we show our faith by accepting the straight and narrow way into heaven--Baptism by water and fire are the requisites we must fulfill, "In order to fulfill ALL righteousness." (see Matthew 3:13-15) We cannot assume that the gospel is a buffet, allowing us to pick and choose whichever requirements we like, and rejecting the rest. Only a FALSE PROPHET will tell you baptism doesn't matter . . . KEVIN? (: "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat. Because strait is the gate , and narrow the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it. Beware of FALSE PROPHETS, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves." >Matthew 7:13-15< -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] Fw: Smiles From The Bible
Sunday is a good day for a humorous scripture quiz Me Q. What kind of man was Boaz before he married? A. Ruthless. Q. What do they call pastors in Germany? A. German Shepherds. Q. Who was the greatest financier in the Bible? A Noah. He was floating his stock while everyone else was in liquidation. Q. Who was the greatest female financier in the Bible? A. Pharaoh's daughter. She went down to the bank of the Nile and drew out a little prophet. Q. What kind of motor vehicles are in the Bible? A. Jehovah drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden in a Fury. David's Triumph was heard throughout the land. Also, probably a Honda, because the apostles were all in one Accord. Q. Who was the greatest comedian in the Bible? A. Samson. He brought the house down. Q. What excuse did Adam give to his children as to why he no longer lived in Eden? A. Your mother ate us out of house and home. Q. Which servant of God was the most flagrant lawbreaker in the Bible? A. Moses. He broke all 10 commandments at once. Q. Which area of Palestine was especially wealthy? A. The area around Jordan. The banks were always overflowing. Q. Who is the greatest baby sitter mentioned in the Bible? A. David. He rocked Goliath to a very deep sleep. Q. Which Bible character had no parents? A. Joshua, son of Nun. Q. Why didn't they play cards on the Ark? A. Because Noah was standing on the deck. PS... Did you know it's a sin for a woman to make coffee? Yup, it's in the Bible. It says . . "Hebrews" -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] Fw: Joke
-- Forwarded Message -- With hope that nobody who happens to be one of these religions is offended... Just laugh at the others. :) Joan Great decisions made by committee: regarding the simple light bulb ... 1. How many Charismatics does it take to change a light bulb? One to change the bulb and nine to pray against the spirit of darkness. 2. How many Calvinists does it take to change a light bulb? None. God has predestined when the light will be on. Calvinists do not change light bulbs. They simply read the instructions and pray the light bulb will be one that has been chosen to be changed. 3. How many Southern Baptists does it take to change a light bulb? One to change the bulb, and 16 million to boycott the maker of the old bulb for bringing darkness into the Church. 4. How many neo-orthodox does it take to change a light bulb? No one knows. They can't tell the difference between light and darkness. 5. How many TV evangelists does it take to change a light bulb? One. But for the message of light to continue, send in your donation today. 6. How many independent fundamentalists does it take to change a light bulb? Only one, because any more might result in too much cooperation. 7. How many liberals does it take to change a light bulb? At least ten,as they need to hold a debate on whether or not the light bulb exists. Even if they can agree upon the existence of the light bulb, they still might not change it, to keep from alienating those who might use other forms of light. 8. How many Catholics does it take to change a light bulb? None. They always use candles. 9. How many worship leaders who use guitars does it take to change a light bulb? One. But soon all those around can warm up to its glowing. 10. How many members of an established Bible teaching church that is over 20 years old does it take to change a light bulb? One to actually change the bulb, and nine to say how much they liked the old one. 11. How many Lutherans does it take to change a light bulb? N-o-o-o! Joan We haven't journeyed this far because we're made of sugar candy.--Winston Churchill -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] A really good quitler!
Hiya Izzy!! You are a slick-lookin' chick!! You look all the better next to that old cowboy. (: Blaine: -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
BLAINE: As I have said many times before, Kevin has his own religion, which is not Christian. He selects obscure passages that justify his vanity. Hey Kevin, why did Jesus insist on being baptized? Answer that question directly without trying to get the issue sidetracked, OK? (HINT: to fulfill ALL righteouness) Faith - without works BLAINE: Does this mean you don't like to work for a living, Kevin? (: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: DAVEH: I concur, Kevin. Faith is certainly a key element of salvation, but I do not think it is the only element necessary for salvation. How do you see it, Kevindo you believe faith is the only necessary element of salvation? DAVEH: Hey KevinDo you have a problem with me using 1Cor 15:29 in support of other Biblical passages that become cumulative evidence that the Primitive Christians believed a water baptism was necessary for salvation? It does lead one to that logical conclusion, does it not? Christians of all ages accept the clear teaching that salvation is by Faith -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Traditional Christians--real or imaginary, or, Bap tism 4 dead?
Hiya Carolyn, You are right, there is truth and merit in all systems of belief. I admire the Muslims for their health rules and keeping their bodies free from drugs. I admire the Catholics for their large families and emphasis on family life. I admire the Protestant tradition of breaking away from the false doctrines of the mother church, and for their leading out to make scriptures available to the common man. I even believe some street preachers do some good once in awhile. (: (: Even Kevin has some Merit (: (Any merit badges, from your old scouting days, Kevin?) (: Sorry I impress you as being a "Spirits of Religion, or a fanatic, in other words, right? (: You may be up-front with me, I am used to it. On the day I was born, the planet Mars was aspecting my Sun with an exact aspect, known as a square. The Sun was 17 degrees Virgo, Mars was exactly 17 degrees Sagittarius. This is considered a very intensely religious aspect, since Sagittarrius is well-known to have a religious bent. Also, Jupiter, the ruler of Sagittarius, was aspecting my sun from Capricorn, again, an exact aspect, but this time a trianglular aspect, known for its beneficial influence. Jupiter represents expansion, magnanimity, philosophy, religion, etc. But again, a religious bent was indicated. With Capricorn rising, Jupiter, the ruler of Sagittarius, was not only in my first house, but my sun was in the ninth house, ruled by Sagittarius and Jupiter--again, indicating a religious bent. So, what can I say. I am what I was destined to be. (: Take Care, and keep truckin' for the truth. You may have found it in an unpopular place, unfortunately, so good luck. I just hope you are able to see through the snowstorm Kevin and his disciples set up to keep you from finding your way to . . whatever you are sincerely and truthfully looking for. (:>) Hagoneh--Navajo/Dine' for, "go in peace." BlaineRB -- "Caroline Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello Blaine; There are lots of belief systems and it takes great wisdom to navigate all of them. I believe there is truth and merits in all these systems as well as errors and problems. Fortunately for us, God is love and is great in mercy towards us. He knows we're all trying to honour and worship him and that we go by the light that we have. >From my brief sojourn into the strange realm of territorial warfare, I've come across fallen angels who are, for want of better terms, "spirits of religion". They are clothed in white and well meaning in that they are zealous for God's holiness and name. They are quite deceived but they think it's us who are deceived and needs correcting. I believe Mohammed met up with one. He told the Prophet that Islam and the Koran was needed to correct the abuses of Christianity. Christians were given a message of forgiveness and grace and their sinful behaviour has profaned God. Islam will be the more perfect way. There are some others who were also told that what was given at an earlier time was not enough or got corrupted. This leaves us with an interesting dilemma. From the perspective of Group A, Group B is adding to what was revealed and intended by God and therefore falling into error. From the perspective of Group B, Group A does not have full revelation. You could read my post and say those spirits in white that I encountered were not fallen angels but real messengers of God and that I've warred against them to the peril of my soul. You could be right. Meanwhile, I firmly believe they are fallen angels, the bane of church history, the cause of much bloodshed and disunity and I oppose them. God have mercy on us all. Love, Caroline - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 10:48 PM Subject: Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Traditional Christians--real or imaginary, or, Bap tism 4 dead? > > > > -- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If there are no further revelations since 1st century AD, then all the > visions David Miller has are false. > > **BLAINE: Carolyn, If you want to worship DavidM, and accept his visions > as a basis for religious doctrine, then please be my guest. I neither > accept nor reject David's visions (I only am aware of one!), as I have not > had the spirit indicate either for or against them. I will say, I do not > believe DavidM is inspired by anyone but the men who taught him his brand > of religion, which is the same as to say I think he stands in his own > light, added to by the professors of religion who taught him. I am aware > of much of what he believes and thinks, having been on TT before, and > having had a number of discussions with him. He is intelligent and > apparently well-educated--that is the best I can say. As for his beliefs, > I believe he is more
[TruthTalk] going off Juno
TTrs, I have been very unhappy with my present web service, Juno. It is not as it was--it has changed, and not for the better, as far as I am concerned. I am therefore unsubscribing from TT until I can arrange to get a more efficient service. Take Care, you people are great to have put up with my "hardliner" defense of Mormonism. (: See ya all later, I hope. BlaineRB -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Traditional Christians--real or imaginary, or, Bap tism 4 dead?
-- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If there are no further revelations since 1st century AD, then all the visions David Miller has are false. **BLAINE: Carolyn, If you want to worship DavidM, and accept his visions as a basis for religious doctrine, then please be my guest. I neither accept nor reject David's visions (I only am aware of one!), as I have not had the spirit indicate either for or against them. I will say, I do not believe DavidM is inspired by anyone but the men who taught him his brand of religion, which is the same as to say I think he stands in his own light, added to by the professors of religion who taught him. I am aware of much of what he believes and thinks, having been on TT before, and having had a number of discussions with him. He is intelligent and apparently well-educated--that is the best I can say. As for his beliefs, I believe he is more enlightened than many, except that I believe DavidH is not only smarter, but far more a child of the truth than anyone else on TT, including DavidM. As for me, I am a child of the Mormon belief system through and through. Like DavidH, I consider this system to be far superior to any other on the ear th today. There are many churches and many doctrines and many belief systems. Some are more "intelligent" than others. There are also many enlightened people, some more "intelligent," or enlightened than others. God is the most intelligent of all, and he called upon Joseph Smith and others, knowing the calamity that was about to overtake the inhabitants of the earth. The doctrines He taught Joseph by way of angelic messengers and inspired visions/revelations of various sorts are the most "intelligent" of all--or most enlightened. There is truth about, here and there--but remember, Satan has many priesthoods. God has but one. He has revealed/restored it to men on this earth in these last days, to prepare them for the coming of His Son--just as John was sent to prepare the way in the meridian of time. But this time, the angelic messenger delivered a message for all the inhabitants of the earth--not just those in and about Jerusalem. The proselyting that must be done, therefore, is on a far grander scale. There are curren tly about 52,000 Mormon missionaries in the field, all with the message of the restored, "everlasting gospel" to be preached to all nations, kindreds, tongues, etc. A good start, but the work is actually just beginning to gain momentum. It will continue until the "Kingdom" fills all the earth. What has DavidH done lately? (: Surely Kevin does not believe that. Perhaps what he meant is that God will never say or do anything that will contradict what has been revealed by Jesus and the bible. **BLAINE: Kevin believes whatever he must to make a rebuttal to whomever opposes his self-enlightened doctrines. (: Kevin, more than any other on TT, stands in his own light. Love, Caroline > > From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2005/04/28 Thu AM 12:06:35 EST > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Traditional Christians--real or imaginary, or, > Baptism > 4 dead? > > > > > > > BLAINE: It is ON-GOING REVELATION that Kevin does not believe in. His theme > is, as always, that revelation ceased with the apostles' deaths. Can you or > Kevin furnish me with any scripture that substantiates this false--VERY > false--doctrine? > > > > Blaine, check out Jude 3. The faith was apparently delivered "once for all". > > BLAINE: Wow, that is the cat's me-ow, huh, that you came up with one little > ol' scripture!! Ha! Talk about making up a doctrine based upon one > teeny-tiny scripture!! But that is about the speed we see on so-called > "Christian" doctrines that are, like the cheap CZ on a teenager's ring, > glittery in appearance, but MANMADE!! That doctrine has one thing and only > one thing going for it--it is an "easy-sell!" The discussion between you > boys and DavidH says it all. 'nuf said, let's get down to reality now and > admit you evangelical boys are not true Christians, 'cuz you don't believe > God can intervene in the affairs of men by speaking to a prophet, to reveal > his mind and will concerning current conditions. What kind of faith is that? > Even the Pope admits such. You evangelicals do not actually have a leg to > stand on--it is either between the Catholic Church, which claims direct-line > authority from the apostles, or it is the Mormons, who claim restored > authority. > "Where there is no vision, the people perish." (Proverbs 29:18) > >"if any man lack wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all m
Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
BLAINE: As DavidH indicates, the truth should always be obvious, otherwise how could the common man be expected to recognize it? You evangelicals rely too much on those who are dressed in scholarly robes, and "seek deep" to manufacture doctrine. ". . . for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid." (Isaiah 29:14) What is so complicated with this perspective? It does not fit the LDS preconceived indoctrination mindset David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: DAVEH wrote: > I think this is an example where Occam's Razor applies. > Why make some convoluted assumptions when the obvious > makes much more senseunless it steps on the toes of > traditional beliefs. I think Kevin's perspective is the more simple one. The hurdle that your perspective faces is the switch from "we" to "they" that Paul invokes. Considering that the word "baptize" was not an ecclesiastical term, but one that simply meant "immersing" and was used in the Greek secular writings often in this way, is it not possible to you that some people washed dead bodies before burying them? Why would they wash dead bodies? Maybe they believed that they would rise again? Maybe it was a common cultural practice just like we regularly preserve bodies with formaldehyde? What do you think? What is so complicated with this perspective? Peace be with you. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Traditional Christians--real or imaginary, or, Baptism 4 dead?
BLAINE: It is ON-GOING REVELATION that Kevin does not believe in. His theme is, as always, that revelation ceased with the apostles' deaths. Can you or Kevin furnish me with any scripture that substantiates this false--VERY false--doctrine? Blaine, check out Jude 3. The faith was apparently delivered "once for all". BLAINE: Wow, that is the cat's me-ow, huh, that you came up with one little ol' scripture!! Ha! Talk about making up a doctrine based upon one teeny-tiny scripture!! But that is about the speed we see on so-called "Christian" doctrines that are, like the cheap CZ on a teenager's ring, glittery in appearance, but MANMADE!! That doctrine has one thing and only one thing going for it--it is an "easy-sell!" The discussion between you boys and DavidH says it all. 'nuf said, let's get down to reality now and admit you evangelical boys are not true Christians, 'cuz you don't believe God can intervene in the affairs of men by speaking to a prophet, to reveal his mind and will concerning current conditions. What kind of faith is that? Even the Pope admits such. You evangelicals do not actually have a leg to stand on--it is either between the Catholic Church, which claims direct-line authority from the apostles, or it is the Mormons, who claim restored authority. "Where there is no vision, the people perish." (Proverbs 29:18) "if any man lack wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all men liberally, . . . " (James 1:5) "and I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to all . . " (Rev. 14:6) etc, etc. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] Fw: Courtesy of KFalls Barbie, a Jokester
Subject: GETTING OLD AIN' T FOR SISSIES A couple in their nineties are both having problems remembering things. They decide to go to the doctor for a checkup. The doctor tells them that they're physically okay, but they might want to start writing things down to help them remember. Later that night while watching TV, the old man gets up from his chair. His wife asks, "Where are you going?" "To the kitchen" he replies. "Will you get me a bowl of ice cream?" "Sure." "Don't you think you should write it down so you can remember it?" she asks. "No, I can remember it." "Well, I'd like some strawberries on top, too. You'd better write it down because you know you'll forget it." He says, "I can remember that! You want a bowl of ice cream with strawberries." "I'd also like whipped cream. I'm certain you'll forget that, so you'd better write it down!" she retorts. Irritated, he says, "I don't need to write it down, I can remember it" Leave me alone! Ice cream with strawberries and whipped cream - I got it, for goodness sake!" Then he grumbles into the kitchen... After about 20 minutes, the old man returns from the kitchen and hands his wife a plate of bacon and eggs. She stares at the plate for a moment and says "Where's my toast?" -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] Fwd: FW: FW: Sneeze
-- > >Sneeze > > > >They walked in tandem, each of the ninety-three students filing into > > the already crowded auditorium. With rich maroon gowns flowing and the > > traditional caps, they looked almost as grown up as they felt. > > > >Dads swallowed hard behind broad smiles, and moms freely brushed away > > tears. This class would not pray during the commencements - not by > > choice but because of a recent court ruling prohibiting it. The principal > > and several students were careful to stay within the guidelines allowed by > > the ruling. They gave inspirational and challenging speeches, but no one > > mentioned divine guidance and no one asked for blessings on the graduates > > or their families. The speeches were nice, but they were routine.until > > the final speech received a standing ovation. > >A solitary student walked proudly to the microphone. He stood still and > > silent for just a moment, and then, it happened. All 92 students, every > > single one of them, suddenly SNEEZED The student on stage simply > > looked at the audience and said," GOD BLESS YOU, each and every one of > > you!" And he walked off stage... The audience exploded into applause The > > graduating class found a unique way to invoke God's blessing on their > > future with or without the court's approval. > > > >Isn't this a wonderful story? Pass it on to all your > > friends.and GOD BLESS YOU > > In God We Trust, United We Stand. > > > > -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] James 1:5-8 to Caroline, Kevin ????(formerly saved, s alvation ... )
BLAINE: Kevin, you said exactly what I anticipated you would say--you even bore your testimony, exactly as I predicted. I have heard it all before from other anti-Mormon activists. I can only say that many men ask, but not in faith. Faith is a gift of God to those who love him, and please him. I am not your judge, but from what you are telling me, I have to conclude you did not ask in faith. You asked with a foregone conclusion of what you would receive. The gifts of the spirit are rampant in the LDS Church, among its members. These gifts are available to all if they will. Charity is the greatest of the gifts of God. Why? Because with it, all truth comes into focus. Have charity for Joseph Smith and other Latter-day Saints, and you will find your entire outlook will change. I have charity for Joseph Smith and for others who lead and have led the LDS Church. I try to have charity for all, including you, otherwise I would not stay on TT. I believe there is good in all men . . . (and women) (: What Joseph S. did by asking is actually a repeatable experiment. ALL MEN may ask and expect to receive an answer, according to the epistle of James. They will get one, IF (getting an answer IS conditional)they ask in faith with nothing wavering. (James 1:5-8) I did ask in Faith with "real Intent" from a honest quest for the Truth. God answered me and showed me, but i got a different answwer than you. We can't both have a TRUE contradictory testimonies. . I bear you my testimony that Joe Smith was a False Prophet, that the LDS church is not the one true church and that it's real founder is that Devil the Angel of Light as the LDS own documents testify to that fact. Moroni 10:3-5 "Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts. And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." I do not need to pray about whether it is right to steal to give to the poor. God's word already tells me do not steal. The Book of Mormon fails the basic test of comparison with the Bible Is 8:20 Those that were more noble searched the scriptures daily to see if things were so. Act 17:11 Beloved believe not every spirit but TRY them Don't pray about it. Test it! Compare it with the "Book-of-books." If you've been adrift on the sea of feelings, pushed this way and that by impressions and impulses that could easily be from the dark side, throw your anchor onto the Biblical bedrock. Don't put your faith in feelings but put your faith in the One who said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6) D&C 9:8 "But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right." I also studied it out and know with my mind that there is no such thing as Reformed Egyptian for example. "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: BLAINE: Kevin has access to a lot of stuff written by Mormon authorities. I proudly congratulate him on getting the items below correctly. But the problem is, IF God told Joseph what Joseph says he did, then that is the way it is, despite denials, rationalizations, arguments, put-downs, outright lies, etc to the contrary. What Joseph S. did by asking is actually a repeatable experiment. ALL MEN may ask and expect to receive an answer, according to the epistle of James. They will get one, IF (getting an answer IS conditional)they ask in faith with nothing wavering. (James 1:5-8) "My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt . . ." (Joseph Smith, "History of the Church, Vol. 1, page 5-6.) It was this directive that caused Smith to establish his chu
Re: [TruthTalk] James 1:5-8 to Caroline, Kevin ????(formerly saved, salvation ... )
BLAINE: Kevin has access to a lot of stuff written by Mormon authorities. I proudly congratulate him on getting the items below correctly. But the problem is, IF God told Joseph what Joseph says he did, then that is the way it is, despite denials, rationalizations, arguments, put-downs, outright lies, etc to the contrary. What Joseph S. did by asking is actually a repeatable experiment. ALL MEN may ask and expect to receive an answer, according to the epistle of James. They will get one, IF (getting an answer IS conditional)they ask in faith with nothing wavering. (James 1:5-8) "My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt . . ." (Joseph Smith, "History of the Church, Vol. 1, page 5-6.) It was this directive that caused Smith to establish his church in 1830. It was this directive that caused God (if you believe The Book of Mormon is inspired) to reveal that there are only two churches the church of the Devil and the church of the Lamb (1 Nephi 14:10). It was this directive that caused LDS Apostle Orson Pratt to teach that marriages outside of the LDS church were illegal and the children of those marriages are illegitimate. It was this directive that caused LDS Apostle Charles W. Penrose to state in his Rays of Living Light Divine Authority that Christian creeds are valueless and that Christendom has no inspired apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers and hence no authority. It was this directive that caused the LDS church to produce a tract in 1982 titled Which Church Is Right? which states that other churches cannot save souls and that they have no divine authority. "We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsenseMyself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century."( Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 167 - 1858) Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I don't know where the Mormon Boys have gone, they've been quiet - must be either busy or overwhelmed - so I can't check with them - but Kevin isn't this the same song and dance Joseph Smith came up with before he found the golden plates that he deciphered with the urim and thummin that later became the Book of Mormon. Everybody had bad theology and all the Churches were messed up so God had to enlighten him so he could start all over again and add a whole new book to the Word of God. jt On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:43:19 -0500 "Caroline Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Sorry Kevin, I often delete your messages without reading them thoroughly and that one must have zipped by. Because I know bad theology has dogged Christianity from the beginning, and that great theologians (not to mention pastors, elders and the ordinary joes on the pew) have errors in their theology, I would never claim that all I believe is right and true. I remember NT Wright saying 1/3 of what he teaches is probably wrong; the only problem is he didn't know which third. We all laughed when he said that because he is a very good theologian. I doubt his error rate is as high as one third but there is definitely error. If NT Wright has that humility about his great understanding and learning, can I do less? Augustine was reputed to have said, "I was wrong" on his deathbed. C.S. Lewis said the first thing he'll probably say when he gets to heaven is "I was wrong". And I'm far lesser in understanding than these two men. I have great confidence in what I believe about the Person I believe in. But I keep an open mind. Now before you jump on your keyboard and type "so open your brains fall out" I'll add that 23 years immersed in the Word and scripture have left an indelible impression on my brains. Every time I hear something, I remember what I've read in the bible, and what other people have said on the same topic and I come to a reasoned conclusion. I'm sure you do the same. :-) Do you have humility in your theology? Love, Caroline -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to recei
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?
BLAINE: Where did Kevin get such a fancy--and inappropriate--word? This word--necromancy--refers to communicating with the DEAD. Notice the emphasis on the word, "DEAD." Joseph Smith's doctrine of baptism for the dead did not come from the single passage in 1 Corinthians 15:29. The doctrine of Baptism for the dead came by way of revelation from Jesus Christ, a living breathing fully alive personage. Joseph described him as being "glorious beyond description." This does not sound like "necromancy." to me. Are you saying you believe Jesus Christ, and maybe God the father, are Necromantic?--those who are dead, communicating with the living? NECROMANCY BAPTISM is essential for the faith? C'MON Blaine 1 Co. Chapter 15: Verses 1,2,3,9,10,11,12,14,15,17,19 Contains FIRST Person pronouns, "we" "our" "you" "your" "ye", Paul is speaking to his Christian audience about things that pertain to them. 1 Co 15:29 Else what shall THEY do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? Here Paul abruptly switches gear and refers to a group outside of the Christians he had been refering to throughout the whole chapter. He now uses the THIRD person pronoun "they", since he is refering to PAGANs and Heathens. Is Paul mentioning or teaching here? Is he questioning or putting forth an essential teaching? If Paul was endorsing the teaching he would have said "what shall WE do" instead he excludes himself from the practice in his use of "THEY" Baptism for the dead was not a teaching of the primitive Church. The church father Tertullian, writing in about A.D. 180, makes this comment on 1 Corinthians 15:29 His [Pauls] only aim in alluding to it was that he might all the more firmly insist upon the resurrection of the body, in proportion as they who were VAINLY baptized for the dead resorted to the practice from their belief of such a resurrection. The Five Books Against Marcion, V,10 in The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, no date), 3:449 Vs 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? Paul is refuting false teachings including this wrong teaching, from "some among you" It is not wise to build a whole doctrine on a single verse and a question not a statement at that! The Book of Mormon is described as containing the fullness of the everlasting gospel DC 27:5 Why does the Book of Mormon not contain such teaching, if Baptism is a central teaching of the LDS Church? Where then is the EVIDENCE that the people of the BoM knew of or practised baptism? If Baptism is essential to the Gospel & Salvation, then why does Paul say? 1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel They are 2 separate things, on the one hand Baptism (NOT sent), the other Gospel (sent). If baptism was an essential part of the Gospel, then he would have been "sent" to perform such. Instead he was sent to Preach the Gospel. "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blaine: You are arguing with a dead piece of wood, DaveH. Kevin is not a Christian, or he would believe in revelation, and baptism, which are essential Christian doctrines. He has his own religion. I have no idea where he gets it, but it appears quite consistently anti-Christian. On the other hand, Kevin claims to love God and worship Jesus Christ--also consistently. I wonder, Kevin, are you a fulfillment of the words of God to Joseph Smith when He said, "They worship me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me?" DAVEH: Hey KevinDo you have a problem with me using 1Cor 15:29 in support of other Biblical passages that become cumulative evidence that the Primitive Christians believed a water baptism was necessary for salvation? It does lead one to that logical conclusion, does it not? Kevin Deegan wrote: C'MON JD, Who scripture twists? If you use any scripture at all, most of the time we get book citations or personal revelation from you. Besides doctrine should not be built on ONE lone verse anymore than a doctrine should be built on a verse that is a question. Such as we see with "what shall they do that are baptised for the dead?" that our Necromancing Mormon friends are so fond of. NECROMANCY BAPTISM is essential for the faith? C'MON Blaine 1 Co. Chapter 15: Verses 1,2,3,9,10,11,12,14,15,17,19 Contains FIRST Person pronouns, "we" "our" "you" "your" "ye", Paul is speaking to his Christian audience about things that pertain to them. 1 Co 15:29 Else what shall THEY do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? Here Paul
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?
Judy wrote: Kevin, can you believe it? It's Blaine who has been reading Augustine on the side and now here he is trying to make a doctrine out of one scripture.. :-) BLAINE: I like your little smilie, Judy. That means you are trying to be nice, huh? (:>) But seriously, it is a misrepresentation of the truth to say Joseph Smith manufactured his doctrine of Baptism for the Dead from the single scripture, 1 Cor.. 15:29. Kevin's analysis of that particular scripture seems OK by me, but he fails to see the big picture, which is that the doctrine of Baptism for the Dead came by way of revelation to Joseph Smith. It is ON-GOING REVELATION that Kevin does not believe in. His theme is, as always, that revelation ceased with the apostles' deaths. Can you or Kevin furnish me with any scripture that substantiates this false--VERY false--doctrine? "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to ALL MEN liberally . . ." James 1:5 -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 dead?
KEVIN WROTE: If Baptism is essential to the Gospel & Salvation, then why does Paul say? 1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel They are 2 separate things, on the one hand Baptism (NOT sent), the other Gospel (sent). If baptism was an essential part of the Gospel, then he would have been "sent" to perform such. Instead he was sent to Preach the Gospel. BLAINE: Now, who is trying to make a doctrine from a single scripture? Kevin, maybe? The doctrine of Baptism, and it's being necessary for one's salvation, is made clear--very clear--in various places. None more clearly though than when the Lord himself said, "Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (John 3:5) Who was greater, Paul, or the Messiah himself? I'd say you better go with the statements attributed to Jesus Christ, and go from there to figure out what Paul was trying to say. I am sure he did not mean what he said to be taken as an "out" from the need for Baptism. As I said, Kevin has his own religion, which is not even Christian. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] Fw: The Reward...
-- Forwarded Message -- > > > Subject: The Reward... > > > > One dark night outside a small town in Wisconsin, a fire started inside > the > local chemical plant and in a blink of an eye it exploded into massive > flames. The alarm went out to all the fire departments for miles around. > > When the volunteer fire fighters appeared on the scene, the chemical > company president rushed to the fire chief and said, "All our secret > formulas are in the vault in the center of the plant. They must be saved. > I > will give $50,000 to the fire department that brings them out intact." > > But the roaring flames held the firefighters off. > > Soon more fire departments had to be called in as the situation became > desperate. As the firemen arrived, the president shouted out that the > offer > was now $100,000 to the fire department who could bring out the company's > secret files. > >>From the distance, a lone siren was heard as another fire truck came into > sight. It was the nearby Norwegian rural township volunteer fire company > composed mainly of Norwegians over the age of 65. To everyone's amazement, > that little run-down fire engine roared right past all the newer sleek > engines that were parked outside the plant. > > Without even slowing down it drove straight into the middle of the > inferno. > Outside, the other firemen watched as the Norwegian old timers jumped off > right in the middle of the fire and fought it back on all sides It was a > performance and effort never seen before. > > Within a short time, the Norske old timers had extinguished the fire and > had saved the secret formulas. The grateful chemical company president > announced that for such a superhuman feat he was upping the reward to > $200,000, and walked over to personally thank each of the brave fire > fighters. > > The local TV news reporter rushed in to capture the event on film, asking > their chief, "What are you going to do with all that money?" > > "Vell," said Ole Larsen, the 70-year-old fire chief, "Da first thing ve > gonna do is fix da brakes on dat old truck!" > > _ > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > > -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] More wisdom from Dallas Willard
Blaine: You are arguing with a dead piece of wood, DaveH. Kevin is not a Christian, or he would believe in revelation, and baptism, which are essential Christian doctrines. He has his own religion. I have no idea where he gets it, but it appears quite consistently anti-Christian. On the other hand, Kevin claims to love God and worship Jesus Christ--also consistently. I wonder, Kevin, are you a fulfillment of the words of God to Joseph Smith when He said, "They worship me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me?" DAVEH: Hey KevinDo you have a problem with me using 1Cor 15:29 in support of other Biblical passages that become cumulative evidence that the Primitive Christians believed a water baptism was necessary for salvation? It does lead one to that logical conclusion, does it not? Kevin Deegan wrote: C'MON JD, Who scripture twists? If you use any scripture at all, most of the time we get book citations or personal revelation from you. Besides doctrine should not be built on ONE lone verse anymore than a doctrine should be built on a verse that is a question. Such as we see with "what shall they do that are baptised for the dead?" that our Necromancing Mormon friends are so fond of. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and the pi gpen
BLAINE: There is only one true meaning to the scripture below from Isaiah--it was fulfilled when Joseph Smith received the golden plates and began translating them. He found a portion of the plates sealed. When a learned man, Charles Anthon, was contacted to verify that the writings were authentic, he wanted to translate them but was told a portion of the record was sealed. His reply was, "I cannot read a sealed book." How much plainer can it be? Does it have to smack you in the face between the eyes? All this other nonsense you write in an effort to rationalize the meaning is just that--nonsense. IS 29:11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Hows does this Mormon concept work
The subject here is the secterian doctrine of the Trinity . . . see my comments after Dave's . . . who is writing to a person affiliated with the street Preachers who descend on Salt Lake City every Mormon Conference . . . Blaine DavidH wrote: DAVEH: HmLet me see if I understand this, Perry. LDS theology believes the Bible teaches about God the Father, His Son, Jesus Christ who is also a God.and, the Holy Ghost which is also a God. The Bible suggests these 3 Gods consist of the Godhead. Do not Christians recognize this aspect of the nature of the Godhead of the Bible? Contrast that to your perspective of believing in a Triune God that at the insistence of a non Christian political figure was defined by a group of religious people with diverse opinions of doctrines several centuries after the advent of Jesus. These men were brought together to hammer out a doctrine that was acceptable to the majority of them to keep peace in the kingdom, so to speak. In the process they coined some non Biblical terms (viz triune and trinity) and obfuscated the true nature of the Godhead by introducing a paradoxical dilemma that is only palatable by cloaking it in mystery. After pondering all that, I do find it curious that you would claim Mormons believe a differ ent Jesus than is found in the Bible. BLAINE: That says it all very well, DaveH. We ought to copy the choicer parts of this onto a sign board and put it up at the Fall conference in Salt Lake City, with a heading reading, "Street Preachers' Doctrine Sucks." (:>) -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] to Perry on heretics--an apology
Blaine: The doctrine of deification is quite plain in the Bible. As I said in a post to DavidM, I did not really need to go to the Eastern Church for support, except for the fact that apparently you are either ignorant of the Biblical passages supporting this doctrine, or you choose to ignore them.On the one hand you claim to believe the Bible, on the other hand you ignore much of what it says plainly and clearly. I thought if you would not believe the Bible, perhaps you would realize the same doctrine is taught by another group with much the same roots as your own, yet having diverged on that doctrinal point and accepted the scriptures as plain evidence of the veracity of deification as a doctrine. You have me both astounded and confused--what more can I do than what I have done? I can only conclude that your stance of condemning the Mormon version of this doctrine as heretical is anti-Bible, and even anti-Christian, not to mention being anti-Mormon. -- "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thanks, Blaine. I appreciate that. But, I just reflected your statement back to you, but changed the names. from me to you, and etc. I did this to demonstrate that the same relationship you examined between the orthodox and protestant church can be said between the protestant and mormon church. We are not going to arrive at the truth by comparing religions. We need a hard standard by which ALL religions can be equally judged. The Bible is that standard. It is the only one accepted (with some slight variations in included books) by all of the religions that refer to themselves as "Christian". I know that there will be some disagreement in what the Bible is actually saying in some instances. Some disagreement will be in translation, interpretation, bias, and other forms of misunderstanding. But, I feel that the essential doctrine, that is, the doctrine that will determine one's salvation, is pretty clear for all who read the bible, regardless of the translation, to understand: We are saved by the Blood of Christ, and by faith through grace. What could be easier? All of the other arguments are intellectual volleying. What difference, for example, does it make if the "burning" of hell is a literal fire, or if it is merely a sensation, or even just a symbol of the pain that iwll be felt. The net effect of hte message is that it will be a torturous place to be for eternity. Now, my biggest concern with the Mormon church is that they truly worship a different jesus and god than the Jesus and God of the Bible. Will that condemn them? I certainly hope that their error is not great enough to disqualify them from salvation. but from what I can tell from the Bible, I believe it is, since that is worshipping a false god. Fortunately, I do not make the final call. Perry >From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] to Perry on heretics--an apology >Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 03:51:51 GMT > > > >Sorry I called you a heretic, bro. Perry--the spirit just got through >reprimanding me for doing that. Apparently the Lord thinks you are not to >be referred to by that name!! >Blaine > >-- "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Gee, another heretical sect. > > >From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hows does this Mormon concept work > >Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:15:22 GMT > > > > > >Charles Perry Locke wrote: And, although mormons apparently > >cannot bear the thought that there are some aspects of God that we >(humans) > >simply do not understand, there certainly are. > > > >To think otherwise is to make oneself equal with God...and that is >what > >Mormons are trying to do with their un-biblical "men-to-gods" heresy. > > > > > > > >BLAINE: I find it very interesting that the Eastern Orthodox Church has > >always without wavering accepted the doctrine of Deification, a doctrine > >almost identical to the revealed religion of Joseph Smith wherein he > >claimed man may become like God, through the atonement of Jesus Christ. > >They claim dervation from, and continuity with, the most ancient of > >Christian traditions. They believe the Western churches have apostatized > >from these original doctrines. > >Important points of comparison between Eastern Orthodox Christianity and > >Mormonism: > >1. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that because of Christ's >victory, > >deified humans will receive theri PHYSICAL bodies in a
Re: [TruthTalk] Hows does this Mormon concept work
-- "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blaine wrote: > ... the Eastern Orthodox Church has more members/adherants than > Protestantism and Catholicism combined. They just never got into > all the apostasy of the Western Churches, therefore are closer > to original doctrines. ... Before you write more to condemn that > which you OBVIOUSLY know little about, you should read up > on the truth LOL. Do you realize that there is no one church known as the Eastern Orthodox Church? They believe in the concept of more than one church and have maintained such, although they have apparently lost sight of the city church concept. They also would reject the LDS structure of having a President / Prophet over one church. Do you have a reference for the statistic that there are more Eastern Orthodox members than Protestants and Catholicism combined? I'm skeptical but I don't have time right now to check out the veracity of this statistic. **BLAINE: You undoubtedly know more about the EOC than I do, but from what I have read, there are GENERALLY about 175 million adherants to the basic doctrine of deification, or man becoming as God through the grace of Jesus Christ. The article I posted from one of the sites I found on the net indicated several scriptures, all of which support the doctrine. The doctrine is plain enough in the Bible, I didn't really need to go to the EOC beliefs for help, except for the fact that since Bro. Perry is familiar with the Bible, he should have knowledge of the scriptures, yet remains convinced the Mormon version of this doctrine is heretical!! I find this astounding!!! Perry is not the only one I find incredible on this point--as you are probably aware, several others contest this point, apparently oblivious to scriptural support for it. My only reasonable conclusion is that they are so locked into the doctrines of their respective anti-Mormon religions, they are as blind leading the blind . . . and look to one another for support, which support seems to be more important to them than the truth--in this case, Biblical truth!! (:>) By the way, I agree with your argument that believers partake of the divine nature. I think your argument would be stronger by appealing to Scripture rather than the Eastern Orthodox tradition. 2 Peter 1:4 (4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Hows does this Mormon concept work
DavidM wrote: By the way, I agree with your argument that believers partake of the divine nature. I think your argument would be stronger by appealing to Scripture rather than the Eastern Orthodox tradition. 2 Peter 1:4 (4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. Peace be with you. David Miller. BLAINE: Thanks for the supportive scripture, Perry needs this more than I do, since he will be convinced only by Bible scripture, if he is convinced at all. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Perfect Church?
Hey Kevin, you must have been a busy fellow tramping down the grass at the conference, huh? (:>) I chose not to go there, mainly because in my old age I was not feelin' quite up to it. Buy, hey, you and DavidM have it all wrong!! A perfect God must have a perfect church. Since such a phenomenon is not found among the churches of the Protestant evangelical reformation, there had to be a restoration. Every reformationist had a different slant, and many of them admitted they were just taking shots in the dark--many of them confessed the need for a restoration, in fact. It is a false and misleading doctrine that there does not need to be a restored perfect church. Blaine NO NEED for a restoration! There was NO Total Apostacy. The Church has existed thru ALL AGES, the very Gates of HELL will not prevail 'oer' it AND no need for delivering a Restored Faith since the True faith was ONCE delivered never LOST! ( and for you LDS - Joe never restored anything he just modified) Ep 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: John S. wrote: >> ... there was no time when the RIGHT CHURCH >> EXISTED except in the Mind of God and via the >> blood of Christ. The First Church was steeped >> in legalism. DAVEH: > Is this a commonly accepted theory of Protestantism? > LDS folks believe such thinking is flawed It is somewhat common in Protestant circles to think this way, but not all Protestants think this way. John's background is the Church of Christ, which is a restorationist movement somewhat like Mormonism. Many of the Church of Christ sects have been labled as cults by other Protestants just like Mormonism has. One of the themes in the Church of Christ is to get back to first century Christianity. Apparently, John has rejected much of the Church of Christ teachings, and one of them is apparently the theme that there is some kind of perfect church that we need to restore. In considering this question of whether or not it is possible to have a perfect church, I consider the churches addressed by Christ in the book of Revelation. I notice that two of the churches were without rebuke. That tells me that there have been churches that were perfect. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"?( to jd)
Hi Jd, I was just wondering after reading your discussion on the saving merits of Jesus Christ--do you believe this doctrine is of value in this life only? It seemed as I read your very well developed message that it referred to salvation in this life only? BlaineRB --- Begin Message --- Et al: I have been doing a little thinking about various aspects of my counseling ministry in view of the triune considerations. And I see, almost daily, the value of the teaching. In II Cor 5:21, we are told that Christ became sin (assumed all sin) so that in Him, we might become righteous. Righteousness in II Cor is a gift of grace. Such a statement parallels with Romans 4 and the claim that His faith (or "faith" - let's not argue on this) is exchanged for our righteousness. The point being that we are made righteous by Another. In Col 1:17ff, we find the fact of reconciliation presented and the purpose of this reconciliation put forth. We have been reconciled so that we might be holy, blameless and above reproach in His sight. How can young people benefit from this teaching -- the full presentation; the fact and the purpose? Think about it: if we do not approach the effort to holiness with the view in mind of securing our salvation; if we understand that our salvation is secured by other influences then the purpose of holiness is for our own health, for our own good. If we are not saved via holiness, what, then is the benefit? Sanctification and spiritual maturity. Our youth need to see the blessing of holy pursuits and the scandal of selfish impatience. When Christian young people deliberately choose to indulge themselves with no concern for others (and that is exactly what they are doing), they make themselves no different in function from those who hate God and give Him no acclaim. THAT is the scandal, as I see it. It is the scandal in my life, for sure. I was quite the sexual activist in my younger days --- me a Christian and forever (it seemed) a leader within our youth group and at Christian college. One day, I asked myself this question: "how in the hell am I different from the atheists? I mean, I am doing these things ON PURPOSE, deliberately IGNORING my own conscience, just because I don't want to wait. I am insulting the very authority of God, my loving and patient spiritual Father will He run out of patience with me? Will he conclude that I am none of His BECAUSE THAT IS THE WAY I AM LIVING MY LIFE? " Even a loving and patient father wonders these things when he sees his own destroying their lives and, after all is said and done, CANNOT STOP THEM. And so Christ stands over the city and weeps. He CANNOT COMMAND FAITH. Grace is free but not cheap and we all have to make that concept a truth in our lives. Thinking out loud Jd --- End Message ---
Re: [TruthTalk] to Perry on heretics--an apology
Sorry I called you a heretic, bro. Perry--the spirit just got through reprimanding me for doing that. Apparently the Lord thinks you are not to be referred to by that name!! Blaine -- "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Gee, another heretical sect. >From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hows does this Mormon concept work >Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:15:22 GMT > > >Charles Perry Locke wrote: And, although mormons apparently >cannot bear the thought that there are some aspects of God that we (humans) >simply do not understand, there certainly are. > >To think otherwise is to make oneself equal with God...and that is what >Mormons are trying to do with their un-biblical "men-to-gods" heresy. > > > >BLAINE: I find it very interesting that the Eastern Orthodox Church has >always without wavering accepted the doctrine of Deification, a doctrine >almost identical to the revealed religion of Joseph Smith wherein he >claimed man may become like God, through the atonement of Jesus Christ. >They claim dervation from, and continuity with, the most ancient of >Christian traditions. They believe the Western churches have apostatized >from these original doctrines. >Important points of comparison between Eastern Orthodox Christianity and >Mormonism: >1. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that because of Christ's victory, >deified humans will receive theri PHYSICAL bodies in a glorius >resurrection. Mormons believe the same >2. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe they may participate in the >"grace, power and glory of God." Mormons believe the same. >3. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that humans enter the realm of >infinity, becoming "eternal like God, without losing their humanity" >Mormons believe the same. >4. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that even though they may become >gods, they will never cease to worship God, nor will they somehow replace >Him as God, because they become gods by grace. Mormons believe the same > >Before you write with such condescension, Perry, maybe you should acquaint >yourself with other beliefs that have come down without interuption from >early Christian times. They are REVEALING!! > >-- "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Dave, > >Let's be fair here. Private conversations with your comrades, whether >in >the temple or without, is a bit different than what the temple endowmwents >contain. I do not ask you what you pray, or to whom you pray. I do not ask >you about a personal conversation you had with your bishop, or Blaine, or >anyone else. Besides, as you have pointed out, the temple endowmwments are >publicized all over the web and in numerous books. What is private about >that? > >As far as the Trinity. You shall never understand it. The fact that >there >is a Trinity is a fact. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Trinity. The >nature of the Trinity...the way in which the Three are addressed in the >bible, where all three share the attributes of God, is clear. Yet, we also >know from scripture that there is only ONE God. There must be a resolution >to this apparent dilemma. There are basically two...whether the Three are >of >the same God, combined in some mystical way that we do not (yet) >understand...or there are three Gods. Christians, in general, choose the >first option. Joseph Smith chose the second. The doctrine of the Trinity, >while the nature of the union is not (cannot be) fully understood this side >of Heaven, is the ony one that adequately deals with ALL aspects of the >nature of the Three revealed in the Holy Word of God. All others have to >abuse ignore some aspect of the text to make it fit their view. Some say >Christ was not deity, yet the Bible makes it clear that he was. Some make >them three separate gods, yet the scripture makes it clear that there is >only one God. Some make them all separate manifestations (appearances) of >the one God, yet they can appear separately at separate times and interact >with one another. A truly mystical union. It has been called a "hypostatic >union", but I am not even sure what that means, nor do I think it matters. > >Some argue that since the word "Trinity" is not in the bible, there is >no >such thing. The word "Trinity" is the word used to represent the mystical >union of the Three as a single God. Because we can't understand it's very >nature does not mean that it does not exist. Life is full of such >mysteries...things that we know, but cannot explain or fully und
[TruthTalk] broaden horizons with truth
s."{33}
Fourth, it is a social process. The second most important commandment is to
love our neighbors as ourselves. We don't become divinized by ourselves. We
realize the divine likeness as we live a common life with other believers such
as that of the Trinity. "As the three persons of the Godhead 'dwell' in one
another, so we must 'dwell' in our fellow humans."{34} Fifth, deification is
very practical. It involves the hands on application of Christian love, such as
feeding the hungry, caring for the sick, etc. Sixth, it "presupposes life in
the Church, life in the sacraments," fo
r it is here that we commune with God. "Church and sacraments are the means
appointed by God whereby we may acquire the sanctifying Spirit and be
transformed into the divine likeness."{35}
Evangelicals who are used to emphasizing a rational understanding of doctrine
grounded in Scripture might find all this too vague. How can we hold to a
doctrine of deification without falling into polytheism or pantheism? Once
again we must take note of Orthodox mystical theology. Significant doctrines
aren't always clearly parsed and laid out for understanding. Orthodox have a
very "face value" kind of theology: if Scripture says we are gods, then we are
gods.
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Hows does this Mormon concept work
-- "Charles Perry Locke" wrote: Gee, another heretical sect. BLAINE: OoooH! Your ignorance and narrowness are showing, Perry--the Eastern Orthodox Church has more members/adherants than Protestantism and Catholicism combined. They just never got into all the apostasy of the Western Churches, therefore are closer to original doctrines. YOU are the apostates, the heretics, the sects. Before you write more to condemn that which you OBVIOUSLY know little about, you should read up on the truth and BROADEN your horizens!!! -- "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Gee, another heretical sect. >From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hows does this Mormon concept work >Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 01:15:22 GMT > > >Charles Perry Locke wrote: And, although mormons apparently >cannot bear the thought that there are some aspects of God that we (humans) >simply do not understand, there certainly are. > >To think otherwise is to make oneself equal with God...and that is what >Mormons are trying to do with their un-biblical "men-to-gods" heresy. > > > >BLAINE: I find it very interesting that the Eastern Orthodox Church has >always without wavering accepted the doctrine of Deification, a doctrine >almost identical to the revealed religion of Joseph Smith wherein he >claimed man may become like God, through the atonement of Jesus Christ. >They claim dervation from, and continuity with, the most ancient of >Christian traditions. They believe the Western churches have apostatized >from these original doctrines. >Important points of comparison between Eastern Orthodox Christianity and >Mormonism: >1. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that because of Christ's victory, >deified humans will receive theri PHYSICAL bodies in a glorius >resurrection. Mormons believe the same >2. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe they may participate in the >"grace, power and glory of God." Mormons believe the same. >3. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that humans enter the realm of >infinity, becoming "eternal like God, without losing their humanity" >Mormons believe the same. >4. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that even though they may become >gods, they will never cease to worship God, nor will they somehow replace >Him as God, because they become gods by grace. Mormons believe the same > >Before you write with such condescension, Perry, maybe you should acquaint >yourself with other beliefs that have come down without interuption from >early Christian times. They are REVEALING!! > >-- "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Dave, > >Let's be fair here. Private conversations with your comrades, whether >in >the temple or without, is a bit different than what the temple endowmwents >contain. I do not ask you what you pray, or to whom you pray. I do not ask >you about a personal conversation you had with your bishop, or Blaine, or >anyone else. Besides, as you have pointed out, the temple endowmwments are >publicized all over the web and in numerous books. What is private about >that? > >As far as the Trinity. You shall never understand it. The fact that >there >is a Trinity is a fact. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Trinity. The >nature of the Trinity...the way in which the Three are addressed in the >bible, where all three share the attributes of God, is clear. Yet, we also >know from scripture that there is only ONE God. There must be a resolution >to this apparent dilemma. There are basically two...whether the Three are >of >the same God, combined in some mystical way that we do not (yet) >understand...or there are three Gods. Christians, in general, choose the >first option. Joseph Smith chose the second. The doctrine of the Trinity, >while the nature of the union is not (cannot be) fully understood this side >of Heaven, is the ony one that adequately deals with ALL aspects of the >nature of the Three revealed in the Holy Word of God. All others have to >abuse ignore some aspect of the text to make it fit their view. Some say >Christ was not deity, yet the Bible makes it clear that he was. Some make >them three separate gods, yet the scripture makes it clear that there is >only one God. Some make them all separate manifestations (appearances) of >the one God, yet they can appear separately at separate times and interact >with one another. A truly mystical union. It has been called a "hypostatic >union", but I am not even sure what that means, nor do I think it matters. > >Some argue that since the word "Trinity&
Re: [TruthTalk] Hows does this Mormon concept work
Charles Perry Locke wrote: And, although mormons apparently cannot bear the thought that there are some aspects of God that we (humans) simply do not understand, there certainly are. To think otherwise is to make oneself equal with God...and that is what Mormons are trying to do with their un-biblical "men-to-gods" heresy. BLAINE: I find it very interesting that the Eastern Orthodox Church has always without wavering accepted the doctrine of Deification, a doctrine almost identical to the revealed religion of Joseph Smith wherein he claimed man may become like God, through the atonement of Jesus Christ. They claim dervation from, and continuity with, the most ancient of Christian traditions. They believe the Western churches have apostatized from these original doctrines. Important points of comparison between Eastern Orthodox Christianity and Mormonism: 1. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that because of Christ's victory, deified humans will receive theri PHYSICAL bodies in a glorius resurrection. Mormons believe the same 2. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe they may participate in the "grace, power and glory of God." Mormons believe the same. 3. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that humans enter the realm of infinity, becoming "eternal like God, without losing their humanity" Mormons believe the same. 4. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that even though they may become gods, they will never cease to worship God, nor will they somehow replace Him as God, because they become gods by grace. Mormons believe the same Before you write with such condescension, Perry, maybe you should acquaint yourself with other beliefs that have come down without interuption from early Christian times. They are REVEALING!! -- "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave, Let's be fair here. Private conversations with your comrades, whether in the temple or without, is a bit different than what the temple endowmwents contain. I do not ask you what you pray, or to whom you pray. I do not ask you about a personal conversation you had with your bishop, or Blaine, or anyone else. Besides, as you have pointed out, the temple endowmwments are publicized all over the web and in numerous books. What is private about that? As far as the Trinity. You shall never understand it. The fact that there is a Trinity is a fact. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Trinity. The nature of the Trinity...the way in which the Three are addressed in the bible, where all three share the attributes of God, is clear. Yet, we also know from scripture that there is only ONE God. There must be a resolution to this apparent dilemma. There are basically two...whether the Three are of the same God, combined in some mystical way that we do not (yet) understand...or there are three Gods. Christians, in general, choose the first option. Joseph Smith chose the second. The doctrine of the Trinity, while the nature of the union is not (cannot be) fully understood this side of Heaven, is the ony one that adequately deals with ALL aspects of the nature of the Three revealed in the Holy Word of God. All others have to abuse ignore some aspect of the text to make it fit their view. Some say Christ was not deity, yet the Bible makes it clear that he was. Some make them three separate gods, yet the scripture makes it clear that there is only one God. Some make them all separate manifestations (appearances) of the one God, yet they can appear separately at separate times and interact with one another. A truly mystical union. It has been called a "hypostatic union", but I am not even sure what that means, nor do I think it matters. Some argue that since the word "Trinity" is not in the bible, there is no such thing. The word "Trinity" is the word used to represent the mystical union of the Three as a single God. Because we can't understand it's very nature does not mean that it does not exist. Life is full of such mysteries...things that we know, but cannot explain or fully understand. Besides, I do not find any of the Mormon characters from the novel called "The Book of Mormon" mentioned in the Bible. Nor do I find any of the Mormon temple endowments described in the Bible doctrine (although I do see them in handbooks on Masonic rites). For that matter, I do not find the mormon jesus, mormon satan, or mormon god in the Bible, either. In spite of this, you would argue that they are there. You statement "it seems the T-Doctrine was politically contrived to actually mystify the Trinity in an effort to bring a lot of diverse beliefs under one theological umbrella" just sounds like anti-christian crap. What is your reference for that statement? Is it yours, or is it standard Mormon patter? The Trinity doctrine is merely man's best a
Re: [TruthTalk] Indians with Beards
BLAINE: I am happy to hear you think of me, Perry!! Does this mean we can be friends? (: I love LA, have been there many times. I was stationed at Edwards AFB (Flight Test Center)in the Mojave Desert for 3 years, we had a small LDS Branch there, and I was the assistant/counselor to the President of the Branch. Hey I have a friend in LA whom I visit once in awhile. Maybe we could stop by your place and see ya, huh? Too bad about those tiles being so difficult to read some meaning from. Maybe THE ARCHEOLOGISTS could try the LA Mormon temple, where I received my original endowments... On the side, it says, THE HOUSE OF THE LORD--HOLINESS TO THE LORD. I bet the baptismal font inside would really give them pause, huh? ): During the dedicatory prayer for that temple, it was promised that those who stood on the temple grounds could feel the presence of a holy spirit there--you should give that a try...? -- "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blaine, I was on a rail platform a few days ago, catching the light rail from El Segundo to Norwalk (Los Angeles area). I noticed that the floor of the platform occasionally had a tile that had been sculpted by an artist and that they expressed various themes. Some of the bas relief pictures were not real distinguishable as to what they were. As I walked around the platform looking at these tiles, Blaine, I thought of you, and thought of what some archaeologist might think about them 2000 years from now. Maybe they will be viewed as "proof" that there was intelligent life in the City of Angels (Ciudad de Los Angeles)! Perry >From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Indians with Beards >Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 05:56:21 GMT > > > >KEVIN WROTE: > >Jews have beards Indians do not. >No Biology degree required. > >BLAINE: Numerous stelae in at least two different places in Meso America >show ample evidence that there once lived in that area an entire race of >people with Caucasion features and beards. How can you account for these, >Kevin? They are there. Are you denying it? Your comments above sound >like it. >The BoM gives a simple explanation for this phenomenon. You don't have to >accept it, but I believe it is one which any reasonable person would >consider worthy of investigation. >-- >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) >http://www.InnGlory.org > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine a Disappointment to Bro. Perry--formerly Hell=p hysical torture
BLAINE: Hmmm, well let's see now. How about the one regards Joseph Smith's revelations/prophecies?You and Kevin fulfill one of them every day, as do most street Preachers. See below: D&C 1:16 "They seek not the Lord nor his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own God, WHOSE IMAAGE IS IN THE LIKENESS OF THE WORLD,..." Or, here's another one that has been fulfilled and is being fulfilled daily: D&C 1:30 "And also those to whom these commandments were given, might HAVE POWER TO LAY THE FOUNDATION OF THIS CHURCH, AND TO BRING IT FORTH OUT OF OBSCURITY..." Initial church membership was six--currently now about 12 million, and increasing fast--very fast--120 new temples, thousands of ward and stake meeting houses scattered throughout the world--a world church now, not just an American church. This is just for starters--I could write much more on this, if you like. I know some have limited attention spans, however. :) -- "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blaine, First, we are brothers in that we both descended from Adam, but we are not brothers in Christ, and this is due to the fact that your jesus and god are different than the Jesus and God of hte Bible, the ones I beleive in. You have been duped into believing that they are the same, but the extra-biblical LDS works and writings of the Mormon non-prophets demonstrate otherwise. In fact, DaveH has rcently been demonstrating that fact here ion TT by showing us how his god is so different from the God of the Bible. Furthermore, we are not brothers based on the fact that the little 'g' mormon god from Kolob had sex with one of his many spiritual wives and made me and you as spiritual brothers to each other, and to jesus, and to lucifer. That is non-biblical hogwash. You may have to give the secret handshake and password to Joseph Smith to get into the little 'h' heaven, but they will not be required of true believers to enter the big 'H' Heaven. If somehow JS ends up in Heaven, I will ask him what this Momron stuff is all about. But, if he does not, then you ask him. It is not that you did not answer the several questions I asked...I really expected you to dodge them. You certainly could have picked one and answered it had you wanted to. My main complaint about your post is that for almost 2.5 years I have been giving justification for my beliefs about the Mormon church, and yet you come across like I have never posted any justification at all. I wondered if you were hoping I would blindly agree with you, or not read your post, or if perhaps you really have not read a thing I have posted in the last 2.5 years (and, you were on TT before I was). My guess is that you were building the best defense you had, and that is by feigning ignorance to my many posts and justifications. Now, as far as my original questions...you can take them one by one in the order I posted them and give your justification. Perry >From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine a Disappointment to Bro. Perry--formerly >Hell=p hysical torture >Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 05:33:08 GMT > > >Blaine: Sorry I am such a disappointment to you brother Perry, but I was >just being truthful when I declined to try answering all those issues you >raised, mainly because I didn't know where to start. If you will take one >issue at a time, your choice, I will discuss whatever you choose--just keep >it simple--I have a one-track mind, for one thing, and I do have limited >time. (: > >-- "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Blaine, > >I have repeatedly posted my justification for the things I beleive to >be >true regarding the Mormons. I have also repeatedly described in detail why >the Mormon jesus and mormon god cannot be the same Jesus and God that are >in >the Bible. I have demonstrated the cultic nature of the Mormon temple >ceremonies, and its obvious tie to freemasonry, another cult. And, in a >recent post, I asked you to enumerate the prophecies of JS and how they >have >come true, which you dodged by saying I asked too many questions. So, >perhaps it is you that are ignoring them! I think the burden of >demonstrating that his prophecies came true is on you...you are the one >stating that his prophecies "obviously are either fulfilled or in process >of >being fulfilled". If it so so obvious, send them in! I also have listed two >of JS' prophecies in a recent post that I know have not come true...and >their time for fulfilment has passed. TWO! It only takes one to make him a >false prophet. T
Re: [TruthTalk] Question for Blaine.
BLAINE: Oh darn! Ruben, what am I going to do now? I can't deal with this! And you had me all but convinced you were on the verge of calling in the Elders for an emergency baptism. Shoot! Dang! Darn it! -- "RUBEN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: BLAINE: I am not in Salt Lake City environs anymore, and getting to the location of the temple is really difficult for me, during conference at least. I can't promise anything, but if I show up, I show up. If I don't, I don't. I will do whatever the spirit moves me to do. Thanks for the invitation, hope you have a good time with your FUTILE and TIME-WASTING efforts in Salt Lake City, Ruben. (:>) But whatever, do good every chance you get during the rest of the year and at places other than the LDS Conference Center, at least, huh? Ruben: What? Well YOU JUST TURNED ME OFF FROM BECOMING A mormon Blaine...HOPE YOU AND Joe ARE HAPPY? Keep it up Kevin, you and Perry are doing great!!! Ruben Israel -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Question for Blaine.
BLAINE: Oh darn! Ruben, what am I going to do now? I can't deal with this! And you had me all but convinced you were on the verge of calling in the Elders for an emergency baptism. Shoot! Dang! Darn it! -- "RUBEN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: BLAINE: I am not in Salt Lake City environs anymore, and getting to the location of the temple is really difficult for me, during conference at least. I can't promise anything, but if I show up, I show up. If I don't, I don't. I will do whatever the spirit moves me to do. Thanks for the invitation, hope you have a good time with your FUTILE and TIME-WASTING efforts in Salt Lake City, Ruben. (:>) But whatever, do good every chance you get during the rest of the year and at places other than the LDS Conference Center, at least, huh? Ruben: What? Well YOU JUST TURNED ME OFF FROM BECOMING A mormon Blaine...HOPE YOU AND Joe ARE HAPPY? Keep it up Kevin, you and Perry are doing great!!! Ruben Israel -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] God's Hate and God's Wrath
BLAINE: Interesting, Perry, you can be very wise (Surprise!). (: -- "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >From: Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >How 'bout we take one of us each week, put that person on a chopping block >and then the rest of us can verbally hack at him or her until all the >victim's shortcomings lay bare. Terry, in the proper environment this can be very healthy towards increasing introspection and building one's character, but in an environment such as TT, I feel it would only serve to destroy good people. I say this because, as long as the people that commant 1) truly are our good friends, love us, and want to help us, and 2) can be honest wihthout being intentionally hurtful, then this will benefit those involved. However, I see so much on TT that is intended to hurt, that I feel in the TT environment such an exercise would only server to destroy. In such an emotionally charged environment, where most everyone's theology is the only right one, it would not be a pretty sight. I was involved in an experiment a few (20) years ago where I was asked to approach my three closest friends, thell them of the experiment, then ask them to be totally honest with me and tell me exactly how they see me as a person. Believe me, there are many I would not have asked, even though I considered them friends, because I felt they could not be objective and to serve the good of the experiment, and not bring in their own baggage and intentionally slice me up, looking for an opportunity to better themselves at my expense. So, I chose very carefully. I chose those friends that I felt truly loved me, and wanted to help me better myself. I chose wisely, and the information they provided caused me to reflect heaviliy on myself, and hopefully to improve my character. It is extremely beneficial to see yourself as others see you...but, you have to be able to trust that they have no agenda, and that they see you accurately without thier own colored spectacles getting in the way. Perry -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] A little history from a memer of my family
Excellent Historical review! I was in my car about an hour ago and received such a salute, and I am not even French! Come to think of it, I doubt that Black guy in the Pink Caddy was English, either.(: blaine -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Why hasn't a single BoM site been identified?
Kevin wrote: TRUTH IS NOT DETERMINED BY FEELINGS OR REVELATION BLAINE:That's funny, I guess you and I have different Bibles as well as a different Jesus: See below : 1 Cor. 12:3 "NO MAN CAN SAY JESUS IS THE LORD BUT BY THE HOLY GHOST." John 10:4 "...sheep follow him: for they know his voice." Matt 7:7: "Ask, and it shall be given you." John 14:21: "I will...manifest myself to him." John 16:13: "Spirit of truth...will show you things to come." James 1:5 "IF ANY OF YOU LACK WISDOM, LET HIM ASK OF GOD, WHO GIVETH TO ALL LIBERALLY,..." Luke 10:22 "...he to whomsoever the Son will REVEAL him..." Proverbs 29:18 "WHERE THERE IS NO VISION,THE PEOPLE PERISH." Etc, etc, etc etc etc etc!!! Kevin needs to read his Bible once in awhile, instead of promoting his own false doctrines! See revelation/prophecy below given to Prophet Joseph Smith fulfilled in Kevin: D&C 1:16 "They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own God, whose image is in the likeness of the world,..." -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Indians with Beards
KEVIN WROTE: Jews have beards Indians do not. No Biology degree required. BLAINE: Numerous stelae in at least two different places in Meso America show ample evidence that there once lived in that area an entire race of people with Caucasion features and beards. How can you account for these, Kevin? They are there. Are you denying it? Your comments above sound like it. The BoM gives a simple explanation for this phenomenon. You don't have to accept it, but I believe it is one which any reasonable person would consider worthy of investigation. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Different Jesus of Mormonism
BLAINE: Whew! I just wish I had time to discuss all this with you, Kevin. I work all day, and have a home and family that takes much time--what about you? Do you have a job? A family? I keep wondering this, so I guess I might as well ask. OK? No offense intended. Please select one issue and let me know which one, and I will try to find time to discuss it. I can't deal well with your "shotgun approach!!! (:>) You just seem to rely on what you have read, usually some crackpot stuff that is, like your own writing, designed to ridicule, label Everyone that is critical of the Mormon Church is automatically LABELED ANTI and usually some "crackpot" If you are against such behavior why do you practice it? Can't help it? 3. You assert/assume Joseph Smith was a false prophet, yet ignore his many revelations, prophecies OK show us one! 4. You assert/assume the Mormon concept of Jesus Christ to represent a "different" Jesus Things that are not the same are "different"! Details in the dictionary The Mormon's different Jesus LITERAL son of a god and his goddess wife; NOT born of the Holy Spirit - MD p547,742; JoDv1 p51 The brother of all spirits born in heaven - MD 192,589,281; Gospel Principles p9 Was a married & a POLYGAMIST - JoD v1 p346, v2 p210 One of 3 "gods" in the godhead - MD p576 The Trinity is three separate gods - TPJS p370 Had a beginning - MD p250 HoC v6 p305 A MORTAL, FALLEN, MAN who progressed, became god - MD p129,321,751 DC 93:12-14,21 Atoned for sin on the cross AND the garden of Gethsemene - Gospel Principles p58 1978ed Was born in Jerusalem of the of the Tribe of Benjamin - BoM: Alma 7:9,10 Josh 18:21-28 Is the Brother of Lucifer - Gospel Principles p15, Moses 5:17;JoD v6 p207 Jesus' sacrifice not able to cleanse from all sins - JoD v3,p 247, 2Nep2:26,25:23, MD p92 There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God - D of S: v 1. 188 LDS Jesus a created being. Yet the BoM Title Page says "Jesus is the Christ the Eternal God" AND TO SETTLE ALL ARGUMENT! "The traditional Christ of whom they speak is NOT the Christ of whom I speak." Gordon B.Hinckley LDS Prophet, Revelator & Seer The Real Biblical Jesus Not literal son of a god & his goddess wife. Born of the Holy Spirit - LK 1:34; MT 1:20; Is 7:14 Not the brother of all spirits born in heaven - Col 1:16 Was not married and did not have wives - Rev 21:9; Ep 5:23 Not one of 3 gods in the GODHEAD - Rm 3:30; 1 Co 8:4; Gal 3:20; 1Tim 2:5 The TRINITY is 3 persons in one God - Col 1:15,2:9; Heb 1:3; Gen 1;26 ETERNAL : NO Beginning or End - JN 1:1; IS 9:6; JN 8:58; Hb 13:8 ETERNAL, IMMORTAL, SINLESS God who LOWERED himself to become flesh, not progressed from flesh to become a "god" - PH 2:6; JN1:1,14; 2Co5:21; 1Tim 3:16 ATONED for all sin on the cross alone - Col 2:14; HB 9:12,28; 10:12,14 Was born in Bethlehem of the Tribe of Judah - Micah 5:2; MT 2:5; Rev 5:5 Not the brother of Lucifer - Col 1:16; EZ 28:15 His atoning death on the CROSS was able to CLEANSE ALL SINS - 1 JN 1:7; RM 10:4 Jesus is the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE - JN 11:25; 14:6; Ep 4:21 The Bibles Jesus is PRAYED TO - Acts 7:55-60; Zech 13:9 with 1 Cor. 1:1-2 The Bibles Jesus is WORSHIPPED - Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9; JN 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6 The Bibles Jesus is called GOD - JN 1:1; 20:28; Heb. 1:8; Titus 2:13; 2Pt 1:1; Is 7:14 Jesus "there is none other NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we MUST be SAVED." Acts 4:12 -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Blaine a Disappointment to Bro. Perry--formerly Hell=p hysical torture
Blaine: Sorry I am such a disappointment to you brother Perry, but I was just being truthful when I declined to try answering all those issues you raised, mainly because I didn't know where to start. If you will take one issue at a time, your choice, I will discuss whatever you choose--just keep it simple--I have a one-track mind, for one thing, and I do have limited time. (: -- "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Blaine, I have repeatedly posted my justification for the things I beleive to be true regarding the Mormons. I have also repeatedly described in detail why the Mormon jesus and mormon god cannot be the same Jesus and God that are in the Bible. I have demonstrated the cultic nature of the Mormon temple ceremonies, and its obvious tie to freemasonry, another cult. And, in a recent post, I asked you to enumerate the prophecies of JS and how they have come true, which you dodged by saying I asked too many questions. So, perhaps it is you that are ignoring them! I think the burden of demonstrating that his prophecies came true is on you...you are the one stating that his prophecies "obviously are either fulfilled or in process of being fulfilled". If it so so obvious, send them in! I also have listed two of JS' prophecies in a recent post that I know have not come true...and their time for fulfilment has passed. TWO! It only takes one to make him a false prophet. The other 50 or so false prophecies are insurance. You dodged that, too. How can you say I give no justification or reasons? Are you asleep? Do you not read my posts? Have short term memory loss? It is certainly not because I have not justified my postion, and on several occasions. Please check the TT archives and get back to me on that, okay? Perry >From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Hell = Physical Torture? >Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 01:06:14 GMT > > > > >-- "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Your mind has been polluted by the heretical LDS >works. If you relied on his Word you would clearly see that your >impressions >of God are all wrong. > >BLAINE: I keep noticing that you do a lot of labeling, usually in >reference to LDS stuff, Perry. Yet I seldom if ever read any solid >reasoning or evidence to support your assertions. You just seem to rely on >what you have read, usually some crackpot stuff that is, like your own >writing, designed to ridicule, label, etc., and which seems to be rooted in >a set of commonly agreed upon assumptions that themselves have never been >too well defined--just asserted to be true. For instance: >1. You assume/assert the BoM to be fiction, but have never proven your >case. Neither has anyone else, for that matter. >2. You assert/assume that the LDS Church is a cult, but again this has not >been well enough defined to be shown to be true beyond reasonable doubt. >3. You assert/assume Joseph Smith was a false prophet, yet ignore his many >revelations, prophecies, etc. that obviously are either fulfilled or in >process of being fulfilled. >4. You assert/assume the Mormon concept of Jesus Christ to represent a >"different" Jesus, yet seem to shy away from actually delineating why this >is being assumed. >I suppose I could go on, but for the sake of limiting discussion, will >stop, waiting for your reply. I probably will not go to sites with >anti-Mormon literature, which you often refer me to. I feel if the >concepts are all that clear, you should be able to just jot them down >succinctly in Perry-digested form. :) > > >From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >So Perry.getting back to Goddo you really think a Perfect > >Parent would want to eternally torture their wayward children? To > >me./that /is illogical. > > > >No. As I said before, God would like for NONE of us to perish...you >intentionally cast God in a bad light, even though you have been told >otherwise many times before, you just do not want to accept it. You have to >make God out to be an ogre through the eyes of your "protestants" so your >mormon god seems bigger. It seems illogical to you because you use >extra-biblical and non-biblical references to try to define God instead of >relying solely on his Word. Your mind has been polluted by the heretical >LDS >works. If you relied on his Word you would clearly see that your >impressions >of God are all wrong. > >Perry -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you d
Re: [TruthTalk] Question for Blaine.
In a message dated 3/18/2005 8:31:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Its main theme has always been that the true church and the true gospel as it was in Jesus' time was restored through a prophet. Beginning with Pentecost, when did the "true church" and the true gospel stray from it's established and pure beginnings? Jd BLAINE: Briefly, I would say the gospel actually bagan to stray during the time of Paul, as the "wolves" began coming into the flocks and tearing them apart. This disarray really didn't get going, however, until the death of the Apostles, and perhaps as much as 300 years afterwards. Apostacy was fully blown by the time of the Protestant reformers, who, despite courageous efforts, especially along lines of making the scriptures available to the common man, were not able to find common ground among themselves, leading to the present state of disorder in terms of doctrines, practices, and, most of all, authority. You can't take a living branch from off a dead tree . . . -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
