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Am Freitag, 20. Juni 2008 13:43:00 schrieb Ted Husted:
But why does web application still seem so difficult or so
time-consuming? Are there time bandits that still suck days or weeks
out of your development schedule? Are there time gremlins that
nickel-and-dime you every hour of every day? Is
: [OT] What slows you down?
When I read this I was being slowed down by constant stopping
and starting of Tomcat from within Eclipse...
- make a change in an action class
- start tomcat
- test it... not working
- stop tomcat
- make a java change
- repeat
In this case I
--- On Sat, 6/21/08, Jeromy Evans wrote:
Internet Explorer
+1
What a pile.
Dave
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2008/6/22 Jeromy Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Internet Explorer
Ok let's start a flame war: Windows, Websphere, RAD :-D
Antonio
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Anyone else?
Martin
- Original Message -
From: Greg Lindholm [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: user@struts.apache.org
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] What slows you down?
When I read this I was being slowed down by constant stopping
and starting of Tomcat from within
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] What slows you down?
When I read this I was being slowed down by constant
stopping
and starting of Tomcat from within Eclipse...
- make a change in an action class
- start tomcat
- test it... not working
- stop tomcat
-Original Message-
From: Jim Kiley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 3:37 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [OT] What slows you down?
Gah, I have been using MyEclipse for two years and never noticed the JSP
debugger. How embarrassing.
jk
lol
.
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Since it's friday, let me pose a question to the group ...
Even with rock-solid frameworks like Apache Struts, it still seems
like web application development takes longer than it should. Some
frameworks, like Ruby on Rails, speak directly to time to market
concerns and have been gathering many
Web Design :). I can code it in a few days, but getting it to look
pretty so that users don't complain, thats a b**ch.
Seriously though, one of the things we could do is a something link Suns
blueprints or a cookbook of code recepies where we have pages which show
and explain the code
I think a web page generator from action/model would be a huge shot in the
arm. Of course it would need to be gussied up a bit, but doing these by
hand is a leach on time. I recall a product back in the day that would
generate pages from db tables. Perhaps it's now open source and could be
2008/6/20 Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
But why does web application still seem so difficult or so
time-consuming?
IMHO it's the presence of too many layers of applications. For a
simple thing like a search result you have to do (for example in
Struts 1):
- the JSP page
- the DAO
- the service
That's pretty accurate! You know, these reoccurring cycles could be
patterned into framework base classes now that Java support generics. Db4o
works fine in this manner and needs no 2D mappings at all. In fact, I have
a single class that handles all persistence/search behaviors for all my
On Friday 20 June 2008 15:07:17 Al Sutton wrote:
Web Design :). I can code it in a few days, but getting it to look
pretty so that users don't complain, thats a b**ch.
That shouldn't be my problem. I'm a developer not a graphic designer. What
would be nice though, would be if it were easier
--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Antonio Petrelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
IMHO it's the presence of too many layers of applications.
+1
The most productive environment I've worked in is Lisp (and Smalltalk, I
guess). Config, code, HTML, everything was generated from Lisp. I had usable
IDE assistance
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think a web page generator from action/model would be a huge shot in the
arm. Of course it would need to be gussied up a bit, but doing these by
hand is a leach on time. I recall a product back in the day that would
generate pages from db tables.
The is a company
With Struts 2 I've got testability right down the spine of the application.
There's very little Java I can write that I can't test. And testing really
does speed up your application development cycle, as I'm sure the pros here
know.
The stuff I can't test is what slows me down: JSP, and the gap
I would have to say: people. It doesn't matter how good frameworks
are, for some reason, some people decide to write their own
frameworks, and they do a terrible job at it. I always land on these
companies :). Some examples I have seen in my current and last
company:
1. Custom MVC (makes me want
--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Jim Kiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't have a JSP debugger, and JSPs don't generate
log statements (wow, wouldn't it be awesome if they
could?).
AFAIK they can, although I'll often just use a println. What environment are
you using that you don't have a JSP debugger,
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Dave Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Jim Kiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't have a JSP debugger, and JSPs don't generate
log statements (wow, wouldn't it be awesome if they
could?).
AFAIK they can, although I'll often just use a
Gah, I have been using MyEclipse for two years and never noticed the JSP
debugger. How embarrassing.
jk
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Jim Kiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Dave Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Jim Kiley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gah, I have been using MyEclipse for two years and never
noticed the JSP debugger. How embarrassing.
*lol*
I almost never use JSP debuggers, but on occasion they're *really* handy :)
Dave
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Actually, I applaud you. If you need to debug jsp pages, you have bigger
problems!
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Jim Kiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gah, I have been using MyEclipse for two years and never noticed the JSP
debugger. How embarrassing.
jk
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:31 AM,
Martin
- Original Message -
From: Dave Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Struts Users Mailing List user@struts.apache.org
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] What slows you down?
--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Jim Kiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't have a JSP debugger, and JSPs
)
for debugging check out console out c:out
http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/sandbox/doc/iterators-doc/index.html
HTH
Martin
- Original Message - From: Dave Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Struts Users Mailing List user@struts.apache.org
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] What slows
This is an excellent question, Ted, thanks for bringing it up. At
Atlassian, we've been rolling out a few new internal applications
built on Grails and have been amazed how easy it can be. They take
production-ready libraries like Hibernate and Spring, then tie
everything together in a seamless
Part of what's going on for me is that Struts 2 provides me with such a
large improvement in productivity over the last two Java web frameworks that
I used (Struts 1 and JSF) I haven't yet gotten over my pleasure with the
framework. I haven't gotten ticked off at it yet, because even when
:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne av Ted
Husted
Sendt: 20. juni 2008 13:43
Til: Struts Users Mailing List
Emne: [OT] What slows you down?
Since it's friday, let me pose a question to the group ...
Even with rock-solid frameworks like Apache Struts, it still seems
like web application development
generating too much noise.
Mvh
Frode T. Johansen
-Opprinnelig melding-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne av Ted
Husted
Sendt: 20. juni 2008 13:43
Til: Struts Users Mailing List
Emne: [OT] What slows you down?
Since it's friday, let me pose a question
In the context of Struts 2 and from my personal experience as a Struts
framework (pure java-centric) user that does not do webapps development
for a living I would have very much appreciated:
1-. A rather colorful set of Struts Blank applications where you could
get out of the box:
a)
-Opprinnelig melding-
Fra: Musachy Barroso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 20. juni 2008 17:14
Til: Struts Users Mailing List
Emne: Re: [OT] What slows you down?
I won't comment on all this, because, I am totally biased, and it is
friday after all, but here:
Look to php zend
Musachy abused the first rule, dont' feed the trolls... :)
Subject: SV: [OT] What slows you down?
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:27:10 +0200
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: user@struts.apache.org
As I said:
I'm not that a great coder, and not an expert php or java coder.
Coding pure logic
List
Subject: [OT] What slows you down?
Since it's friday, let me pose a question to the group ...
Even with rock-solid frameworks like Apache Struts, it still seems
like web application development takes longer than it should. Some
frameworks, like Ruby on Rails, speak directly to time to market
-Original Message-
From: Sarr, Nathan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 10:29 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] What slows you down?
2. Validation - since I'm using Yahoo User Interface Libraries
(YUI) and my actions are returning JSON
Hi David,
That sounds great - thanks for tip. I'm going to grab the Beta release
ASAP.
-Nate
-Original Message-
From: Karr, David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 1:47 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] What slows you down?
-Original Message
Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] What slows you down?
Hi David,
That sounds great - thanks for tip. I'm going to grab the
Beta release ASAP.
-Nate
-Original Message-
From: Karr, David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 1:47 PM
To: Struts Users
--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Frode T. Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-Debugging.
What does the request.paramterMap contains of variables
form post/get? I have a small code for printing that...
just pain to use the debugger for it.
What does the valuestack contains? I don't know...
Or use
lol, another one that didn't read the sign ;)
musachy
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Dave Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Frode T. Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-Debugging.
What does the request.paramterMap contains of variables
form post/get? I have a small code
--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Musachy Barroso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
lol, another one that didn't read the sign ;)
I'm really bad at that game; they get me every time.
Dave
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I'd like to +1 the sentiment that we have too many layers and too many
options for each layer.
I'll resist the temptation to try to list various layers and options --
there are just too many.
What I'd like to add to the discussion is the theory that there is a
natural selection/evolutionary
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