RE: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
> -Original Message- > From: Rainer Duffner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 4:52 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP > > > Am Mi, den 08.09.2004 schrieb Michael Bowe um 23:20: > > > But! whenever I demonstrate the vpopmail software to any of the guys > > at my new place of employment, they are the ones who are marvelling at > > the ease of use and features of vpopmail. > > Indeed. > Postfix _is_ nice (cyrus is debatable, IMO), but what use is a mailserver without any webinterface for customers to add/modify/delete their users? > > There are lots of bits and pieces around, but no complete package. Just compare what is available to postfix with > qmail+patches^3+vpopmail+qmailadmin and see which one you want to start > with. > > > > cheers, > Rainer > -- > === > ~ Rainer Duffner - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ > ~ Freising - Munich - Germany ~ > ~Unix - Linux - BSD - OpenSource - Security ~ > ~ http://www.ultra-secure.de/~rainer/pubkey.pgp ~ === > Somehow I worry the discussion of MTA+MDA will venture to an evangelistic argument/discussion (much like that between linux/windows/mac etc). When we first came to the need for a more powerful MTA back in 1999, qmail+vpopmail+qmailadmin seemed to be the best features wise, and administration wise. In dealing with the ever growing spam, a re-evaluation in 2003 lead us to believe that qmail+vpopmail+qmailadmin still had a slight edge over the others, including postfix. As Rainer said, it seems that postfix has more upfront, but it still seems that qmail can be patched very well. Currently, I'm running qmail+vpopmail+qmailadmin, qmail-scanner w/ClamAV, mailfilter invoking SpamAssassin for userbased SA. Qmails only holdback is the lack of development (but does a stable secure MTA need development?), patches add features as needed. But, its not like MTA requirements has changed over the years, it's the MDA, and that's easy to plug something else in its place. --joey
Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
- Original Message - From: "Chris Ess" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Ooh... While we're at it, we could add vpopmail support for sendmail... Once vpopmail is abstracted from qmail that would be easy. :) I fully realize that everyone who uses vpopmail also uses qmail. Me too. A lot of people like qmail. Others would like to be able to use vpopmail (which is great) with other MTA that they are more familiar with or just prefer. This isn't anti-qmail its pro-vpopmail. -Steve
Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
At 08:41 AM 9/9/2004, you wrote: - Original Message - From: "Paul Theodoropoulos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > What, precisely, is gained by supporting postfix? i don't see the point. Are you being sarcastic? no. Paul Theodoropoulos http://www.anastrophe.com http://www.smileglobal.com
Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
At 08:39 AM 9/9/2004, you wrote: On Thursday 09 September 2004 11:20 am, Paul Theodoropoulos wrote: > What, precisely, is gained by supporting postfix? i don't see the point. Postfix is a MODERN sendmail replacement. Qmail is not. You don't need to patch Postfix. Patches suck. :) well, qmail isn't a ronco pocket fisherman either. that doesn't make it less than an excellent MTA. patching? okay, you've got me there. doesn't bother me however. i've run qmail since 1997. works great. no security issues. why muck with what works. i despise sendmail and will do anything in my power not to deal with sendmail. so a 'modern sendmail replacement' doesn't exactly make me do cartwheels. but i digress. Paul Theodoropoulos http://www.anastrophe.com http://www.smileglobal.com
Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Jesse Guardiani wrote: > On Thursday 09 September 2004 11:20 am, Paul Theodoropoulos wrote: > > What, precisely, is gained by supporting postfix? i don't see the point. > > Postfix is a MODERN sendmail replacement. Qmail is not. You don't need > to patch Postfix. Patches suck. :) (in re 'MODERN') I disagree. Despite the age of the original code base, qmail is still a modern and viable replacement for sendmail. However, it's not very featureful -- which is fine for replacing most versions of sendmail anyway. I believe that the majority of sendmail installations do not use STARTTLS or SMTP AUTH. (in re patches) Funny. I've never thought so. One thing I like about having to patch qmail is the ability to decide at compile-time what extensions I want to use. This allows me to limit the amount of unused code compiled into my MTA. (In the era of modern computing and the prevalence of CPU's well over 2GHz, this may not mean a lot. However, I run qmail on a 50MHz SparcStation LX and I'm a bit picky about what goes into it.) Having only ever compiled Postfix once (and many moons ago at that), I do not know if the same option is present there. But I'm wandering off topic for the vpopmail list. Ooh... While we're at it, we could add vpopmail support for sendmail... ^_~ Sincerely, Chris Ess System Administrator / CDTT (Certified Duct Tape Technician)
Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
- Original Message - From: "Paul Theodoropoulos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > What, precisely, is gained by supporting postfix? i don't see the point. Are you being sarcastic? -Steve > At 02:45 PM 9/8/2004, you wrote: > >- Original Message - > >From: "Michael Bowe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > The perfect world would be a vpopmail mailbox management combined with > > > postfix MTA :-) > > > >Yes! I keep saying that. I had heard that there is work going on to create > >an abstraction layer between vpopmail and qmail (i.e. vpopmail functions do > >X rather than doing X with qmail). I promptly joined the development list > >but its low traffic and I don't really see a lot of those types of changes > >happening... nor do I see a well defined path layed out where anyone else > >can help to make this happen without either just doing it all themselves or > >contributing work with your fingers crossed. > > > >The main/only developers on vpopmail seem VERY fixated on qmail and for some > >reason are unwilling to work towards supporting other MTA. > > > >-Steve > > Paul Theodoropoulos > http://www.anastrophe.com > http://www.smileglobal.com > > >
Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
On Thursday 09 September 2004 11:20 am, Paul Theodoropoulos wrote: > What, precisely, is gained by supporting postfix? i don't see the point. Postfix is a MODERN sendmail replacement. Qmail is not. You don't need to patch Postfix. Patches suck. :) > At 02:45 PM 9/8/2004, you wrote: > >- Original Message - > >From: "Michael Bowe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > The perfect world would be a vpopmail mailbox management combined with > > > postfix MTA :-) > > > >Yes! I keep saying that. I had heard that there is work going on to create > >an abstraction layer between vpopmail and qmail (i.e. vpopmail functions do > >X rather than doing X with qmail). I promptly joined the development list > >but its low traffic and I don't really see a lot of those types of changes > >happening... nor do I see a well defined path layed out where anyone else > >can help to make this happen without either just doing it all themselves or > >contributing work with your fingers crossed. > > > >The main/only developers on vpopmail seem VERY fixated on qmail and for some > >reason are unwilling to work towards supporting other MTA. > > > >-Steve > > Paul Theodoropoulos > http://www.anastrophe.com > http://www.smileglobal.com > > > > -- Jesse Guardiani, Systems Administrator WingNET Internet Services, P.O. Box 2605 // Cleveland, TN 37320-2605 423-559-LINK (v) 423-559-5145 (f) http://www.wingnet.net
Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
What, precisely, is gained by supporting postfix? i don't see the point. At 02:45 PM 9/8/2004, you wrote: - Original Message - From: "Michael Bowe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > The perfect world would be a vpopmail mailbox management combined with > postfix MTA :-) Yes! I keep saying that. I had heard that there is work going on to create an abstraction layer between vpopmail and qmail (i.e. vpopmail functions do X rather than doing X with qmail). I promptly joined the development list but its low traffic and I don't really see a lot of those types of changes happening... nor do I see a well defined path layed out where anyone else can help to make this happen without either just doing it all themselves or contributing work with your fingers crossed. The main/only developers on vpopmail seem VERY fixated on qmail and for some reason are unwilling to work towards supporting other MTA. -Steve Paul Theodoropoulos http://www.anastrophe.com http://www.smileglobal.com
Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
- Original Message - From: "Michael Bowe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > The perfect world would be a vpopmail mailbox management combined with > postfix MTA :-) Yes! I keep saying that. I had heard that there is work going on to create an abstraction layer between vpopmail and qmail (i.e. vpopmail functions do X rather than doing X with qmail). I promptly joined the development list but its low traffic and I don't really see a lot of those types of changes happening... nor do I see a well defined path layed out where anyone else can help to make this happen without either just doing it all themselves or contributing work with your fingers crossed. The main/only developers on vpopmail seem VERY fixated on qmail and for some reason are unwilling to work towards supporting other MTA. -Steve
Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
Am Mi, den 08.09.2004 schrieb Michael Bowe um 23:20: > But! whenever I demonstrate the vpopmail software to any of the guys at my > new place of employment, they are the ones who are marvelling at the ease of > use and features of vpopmail. Indeed. Postfix _is_ nice (cyrus is debatable, IMO), but what use is a mailserver without any webinterface for customers to add/modify/delete their users? There are lots of bits and pieces around, but no complete package. Just compare what is available to postfix with qmail+patches^3+vpopmail+qmailadmin and see which one you want to start with. cheers, Rainer -- === ~ Rainer Duffner - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ ~ Freising - Munich - Germany ~ ~Unix - Linux - BSD - OpenSource - Security ~ ~ http://www.ultra-secure.de/~rainer/pubkey.pgp ~ ===
Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
- Original Message - From: "Davide Giunchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Il mer, 2004-09-08 alle 19:55, Jesse Guardiani ha scritto: > > Howdy folks, > > > > Sorry for the flame bait, but I'm just curious what all you > > seasoned vpopmail veterans have to say about Postfix + Cyrus. > > > > Back in 2002 when my company chose to go with QMail + Vpopmail > > I thought it was the Right Choice, but these days I'm hearing a lot > > about Postfix + Cyrus. For a while there, it seemed like vpopmail > > development was grinding to a halt, but these days it seems to > I don't think that the problem is vpopmail, the problem is qmail: > after 6 years since 1.03 version there's no modific to the original > version, now you always need addictional feature like antivirus > integration, more spam filters, a lot of other things... this lead to a > patch-over-patch phenomenon that is an headace for the qmail > administrator. Yes I agree I extensively used qmail/vpopmail at the ISP I used to own. However, I sold the business to a larger ISP last year, and now "I work for them". They use postfix as their standard mail server. Since being exposed to this software I marvel at all the fabulous features compared with qmail. In particular the ease that you can perform a vast array of checks / filtering on incoming mail. The more I see of postfix, the more I understand just how out-of-date that qmail really is. But! whenever I demonstrate the vpopmail software to any of the guys at my new place of employment, they are the ones who are marvelling at the ease of use and features of vpopmail. The perfect world would be a vpopmail mailbox management combined with postfix MTA :-) Michael.
Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
Il mer, 2004-09-08 alle 19:55, Jesse Guardiani ha scritto: > Howdy folks, > > Sorry for the flame bait, but I'm just curious what all you > seasoned vpopmail veterans have to say about Postfix + Cyrus. > > Back in 2002 when my company chose to go with QMail + Vpopmail > I thought it was the Right Choice, but these days I'm hearing a lot > about Postfix + Cyrus. For a while there, it seemed like vpopmail > development was grinding to a halt, but these days it seems to No, i don't think that the vpopmail development is on a halt, i think that it's the opposite: vpopmail dev was stopped on v5.2.x version when was developed only by inter7, since Tom Collins has joined (or better: maintaned) the development vpopmail has get a big sprint. I don't think that the problem is vpopmail, the problem is qmail: after 6 years since 1.03 version there's no modific to the original version, now you always need addictional feature like antivirus integration, more spam filters, a lot of other things... this lead to a patch-over-patch phenomenon that is an headace for the qmail administrator. So you need a toaster like netqmail-1.05 + bill shupp patches, but sometimes this is not enoght. On the other hand postfix is active developed even on the core. So i think that the problem of qmail is its license and it's author's ego. > be picking back up again. Even QMail seems to be at least partially > back under development with the Netqmail package. It's giving me > hope for the platform that I've invested so much of my personal time > into. > > For those of you who have had the opportunity to work with BOTH > systems, which do you prefer and why? > > BTW, I currently run QMail + vpopmail & friends + courier-imap + sqwebmail. > Don't use sqwebmail, use squirrel. Regards. -- Davide Giunchi
[vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
Howdy folks, Sorry for the flame bait, but I'm just curious what all you seasoned vpopmail veterans have to say about Postfix + Cyrus. Back in 2002 when my company chose to go with QMail + Vpopmail I thought it was the Right Choice, but these days I'm hearing a lot about Postfix + Cyrus. For a while there, it seemed like vpopmail development was grinding to a halt, but these days it seems to be picking back up again. Even QMail seems to be at least partially back under development with the Netqmail package. It's giving me hope for the platform that I've invested so much of my personal time into. For those of you who have had the opportunity to work with BOTH systems, which do you prefer and why? BTW, I currently run QMail + vpopmail & friends + courier-imap + sqwebmail. Thanks! -- Jesse Guardiani, Systems Administrator WingNET Internet Services, P.O. Box 2605 // Cleveland, TN 37320-2605 423-559-LINK (v) 423-559-5145 (f) http://www.wingnet.net