Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-13 Thread Erik Christiansen
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 01:45:53PM -0400, AK wrote: I'm working on a plugin right now that I think allows a much more flexible and easy way to store and lookup notes, snips and references. It uses an sqlite database ... Ahem ... cough ... splutter, the whole _purpose_ of vim-edited plain

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-12 Thread Steve
Hi Tony, Thanks for your answer. Sorry, I hadn't noticed you are still on Vim 7.2. No problem. In that case I recommend to upgrade. See http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Getting_the_Vim_source_with_Mercurial http://users.skynet.be/antoine.mechelynck/vim/compunix.htm about how to get the

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-12 Thread Tony Mechelynck
On 12/04/11 11:00, Steve wrote: Hi Tony, Thanks for your answer. Sorry, I hadn't noticed you are still on Vim 7.2. No problem. In that case I recommend to upgrade. See http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Getting_the_Vim_source_with_Mercurial

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-12 Thread Christian Brabandt
On Tue, April 12, 2011 11:18 am, Tony Mechelynck wrote: :h helphelp.txt There is a copy of the help online, but alas, it is still the Vim 7.2 version of the help. :-( http://vimhelp.appspot.com/helphelp.txt.html regards, Christian -- You received this message from the vim_use maillist. Do

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-12 Thread Steve
Le 12-04-2011, à 12:04:07 +0200, Christian Brabandt (cbli...@256bit.org) a écrit : On Tue, April 12, 2011 11:18 am, Tony Mechelynck wrote: :h helphelp.txt There is a copy of the help online, but alas, it is still the Vim 7.2 version of the help. :-(

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-12 Thread Erik Christiansen
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 06:41:34PM -0400, AK wrote: On 04/11/2011 05:04 PM, Adam Monsen wrote: Erik Christiansen wrote: Simply capitalising keywords in the file allows rapid access to the desired information How does that work? Will you share an example? Also, will you share your .vimrc?

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-12 Thread Magnus Woldrich
So when copy pasting a long part of code, it's not very convenient. But I'm sure there is a way to do that also with vim. Just didn't find it yet. If you have any ideas, please share. :set paste :h paste -- Magnus Woldrich m...@japh.se http://japh.se -- You received this message from the

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-12 Thread Steve
Le 12-04-2011, à 13:01:50 +0200, Magnus Woldrich (m...@japh.se) a écrit : So when copy pasting a long part of code, it's not very convenient. But I'm sure there is a way to do that also with vim. Just didn't find it yet. If you have any ideas, please share. :set paste :h paste Brilliant!

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-12 Thread Christian Brabandt
On Tue, April 12, 2011 1:01 pm, Magnus Woldrich wrote: So when copy pasting a long part of code, it's not very convenient. But I'm sure there is a way to do that also with vim. Just didn't find it yet. If you have any ideas, please share. :set paste :h paste See also the faq at:

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-12 Thread Ben Fritz
On Apr 12, 5:49 am, Steve dl...@bluewin.ch wrote: The only thing with which I have problem is the movement keys, hjkl. I'm so used to the arrow keys that I get cramps in my fingers when putting them on those hjkl keys (and I'm not that old :-)). I probably use hjkl more than I realize, and I

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-12 Thread Gary Johnson
On 2011-04-12, Christian Brabandt wrote: On Tue, April 12, 2011 1:01 pm, Magnus Woldrich wrote: So when copy pasting a long part of code, it's not very convenient. But I'm sure there is a way to do that also with vim. Just didn't find it yet. If you have any ideas, please share. :set paste

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-12 Thread AK
On 04/12/2011 06:52 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote: On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 06:41:34PM -0400, AK wrote: On 04/11/2011 05:04 PM, Adam Monsen wrote: Erik Christiansen wrote: Simply capitalising keywords in the file allows rapid access to the desired information How does that work? Will you share

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-12 Thread Christian Brabandt
Hi Gary! On Di, 12 Apr 2011, Gary Johnson wrote: On 2011-04-12, Christian Brabandt wrote: On Tue, April 12, 2011 1:01 pm, Magnus Woldrich wrote: So when copy pasting a long part of code, it's not very convenient. But I'm sure there is a way to do that also with vim. Just didn't find it

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-12 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 11, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Adam Monsen wrote: On 04/07/2011 06:13 PM, Eric Weir wrote: Hope to find some free time in the next few days just to mess around with it -- actually, to do the tutorial -- and maybe get over the initial hump of total bafflement. Based on your participation on

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-11 Thread eNG1Ne
Main use of vim - preparing music scores with mup. Copying scores in is easiest with a spreadsheet, but once that's done it's over to vim to sort it all out Then comes drafting translations or new content for docs - using vim on a portable and writing mml to be finished with FrameMaker once I get

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-11 Thread Steve
Hi there, Very interresting thread, but : Le 09-04-2011, à 08:53:30 +0200, Tony Mechelynck (antoine.mechely...@gmail.com) a écrit : There is also, as I said before, help on using help, obtained by typing :help helphelp.txt Sorry, no help for helphelp.txt (my translation from

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-11 Thread Christian Brabandt
On Mon, April 11, 2011 3:46 pm, Steve wrote: Hi there, Very interresting thread, but : Le 09-04-2011, à 08:53:30 +0200, Tony Mechelynck (antoine.mechely...@gmail.com) a écrit : There is also, as I said before, help on using help, obtained by typing :help helphelp.txt Sorry, no

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-11 Thread Dotan Cohen
On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 07:52, Magnus Woldrich m...@japh.se wrote: I use vim for everything. And I have vim-bindings in *every* application that I use. Here's my setup:                  Browser: Firefox with pentadactyl [6]             Writing Mail: mutt, with editor set to vim 6:

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-11 Thread Steve
Le 11-04-2011, à 15:49:08 +0200, Christian Brabandt (cbli...@256bit.org) a écrit : There is also, as I said before, help on using help, obtained by typing :help helphelp.txt Sorry, no help for helphelp.txt (my translation from French). All the other online help seems

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-11 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 10, 2011, at 8:55 PM, AK wrote: The way I think about this is.. it does have quite a learning curve and even though others will disagree, my feeling is that the documentation and help system are very, very far from ideal for a new user (although both are near perfect as a reference

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-11 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 11, 2011, at 2:11 AM, eNG1Ne wrote: My take on the learning curve and the documentation? it's a bit tricky to learn vim _and_ editing at the same time, but if you come to vim because you know what you want to do and you're looking for a competent tool to do it ... my editor of choice.

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-11 Thread Tony Mechelynck
On 11/04/11 15:46, Steve wrote: Hi there, Very interresting thread, but : Le 09-04-2011, à 08:53:30 +0200, Tony Mechelynck (antoine.mechely...@gmail.com) a écrit : There is also, as I said before, help on using help, obtained by typing :help helphelp.txt Sorry, no help for

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-11 Thread Tony Mechelynck
On 11/04/11 17:27, Tony Mechelynck wrote: On 11/04/11 15:46, Steve wrote: Hi there, Very interresting thread, but : Le 09-04-2011, à 08:53:30 +0200, Tony Mechelynck (antoine.mechely...@gmail.com) a écrit : There is also, as I said before, help on using help, obtained by typing :help

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-11 Thread Adam Monsen
On 04/07/2011 06:13 PM, Eric Weir wrote: Hope to find some free time in the next few days just to mess around with it -- actually, to do the tutorial -- and maybe get over the initial hump of total bafflement. Based on your participation on this list, looks like you've got plenty of free time

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-11 Thread Adam Monsen
Erik Christiansen wrote: Simply capitalising keywords in the file allows rapid access to the desired information How does that work? Will you share an example? Also, will you share your .vimrc? -- You received this message from the vim_use maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-11 Thread AK
On 04/11/2011 05:04 PM, Adam Monsen wrote: Erik Christiansen wrote: Simply capitalising keywords in the file allows rapid access to the desired information How does that work? Will you share an example? Also, will you share your .vimrc? I think Erik simply meant searching for Mykey will

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-10 Thread AK
On 04/07/2011 04:15 PM, Eric Weir wrote: I've downloaded and installed a copy of MacVim. I've peeked at a few of the help topics. [I'd like to run the tutorial, but haven't figured out how to do that, yet.] I'm not a programmer. Far from it. I'm intrigued for a least a couple reasons, the

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-09 Thread Anthony Campbell
On 08 Apr 2011, Eric Weir wrote: [snip] My preference, in my current state of ignorance, anyway, would be to never insert hard line breaks. I do have to share most of my writing with people who don't know anything but Word. So when ready for sharing I would import into another

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-09 Thread lith
My preference, in my current state of ignorance, anyway, would be to never insert hard line breaks. I do have to share most of my writing with people who don't know anything but Word. So when ready for sharing I would import into another application for formatting. Apple's TextEdit is

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-09 Thread Erik Christiansen
On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 09:43:16PM -0400, Eric Weir wrote: Well, I found time to work through the vim tutor exercise. Pretty basic. Not sure I remember what I learned -- I liked that it said don't try to memorize, to learn by doing -- and in a fog about some things I'm clear about, e.g., how

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-09 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 10:39 PM, Ben Fritz wrote: On Apr 8, 8:43 pm, Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote: Haven't the faintest idea how to use the manual, i.e., how to open the files listed in the table of contents. I think I need to get one of the books.

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-09 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 9, 2011, at 2:53 AM, Tony Mechelynck wrote: There is also, as I said before, help on using help, obtained by typing :help helphelp.txt Thanks for the reminder, Tony. -- Eric Weir Decatur,

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-09 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 9, 2011, at 4:20 AM, Anthony Campbell wrote: When I have to import a Vim file into OOWriter (Libreoffice as it now is) I use this command, kindly supplied by Tim Chase in an earlier thread (thanks, Tim): :g/\%^\|\n\@=\s*\n/,/\n\n\|\%$/j This converts each paragraph into a

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-09 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 9, 2011, at 5:42 AM, lith wrote: HTML actually is a great format for exchange documents. See here for some tools that could prove useful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightweight_markup_language Thanks, Tom. I'll keep it in mind.

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-09 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 9, 2011, at 6:06 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote: Dunno if it suits your learning style, but many years ago I started keeping (very brief) notes of the most immediately useful stuff, using vim. The act of condensing a concept, and writing it down, together with the relevant commands, help

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Anthony Campbell
On 08 Apr 2011, Magnus Woldrich wrote: On 2011-04-07 16:15, Eric Weir wrote: So, I'm wondering if there are any ordinary, nonprogrammer writers here who've gotten comfortable with Vim as a writer's editor -- or is that just ridiculous to think of? Though they sure are programmers, I'd like

RE: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Vera, Pedro L.
On 2011-04-07 16:15, Eric Weir wrote: So, I'm wondering if there are any ordinary, nonprogrammer writers here who've gotten comfortable with Vim as a writer's editor -- or is that just ridiculous to think of? I am not a programmer. I use Vim to create and edit text and generate publication

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Sasha
Don't be intimidated. Vim can be used like a simple DOS-era editor without unusual difficulty, and you can learn the more advanced facilities at your own pace. Most of the adjustment is just getting comfortable with a new set of keys. Despite first appearances, this should not be fundamentally

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 7, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Tim Chase wrote: On 04/07/2011 08:05 PM, Tim Gray wrote: I feel like to get the most out of it you need to a) put the time in to learn it and b) put the time in *configuring* to make it work for you. While I certainly agree with (a), I'm at the other end of

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 9:14 AM, Sasha wrote: Don't be intimidated. Vim can be used like a simple DOS-era editor without unusual difficulty, and you can learn the more advanced facilities at your own pace. Most of the adjustment is just getting comfortable with a new set of keys. Despite first

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 7, 2011, at 11:20 PM, Scott Bicknell wrote: On Thu, Apr 07, 2011 at 04:15:37PM -0400, Eric Weir wrote: Still, as I imagine many are, I'm a bit intimidated complexity of the commands and the steep learning curve. So, I'm wondering if there are any ordinary, nonprogrammer writers here

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 12:58 AM, Magnus Woldrich wrote: Indeed, the help in vim is fantastic. Other than that, I'd recommend just reading this list; look up stuff people talk about, don't be afraid to ask. Thanks, Magnus.

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 12:43 AM, lith wrote: There is also the question how you get text edited with vim into some format you can submit. vim isn't particularly good at editing text with no hard line breaks (tw=0), i.e. soft wrap. In order to get some text formatting into e.g. Word, most

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Anthony Campbell
On 08 Apr 2011, Eric Weir wrote: In addition to my other handicap -- not being a programmer -- I'm old. Don't if I'll get where you are before my life ends. Just getting comfortable with Vim as an editor is challenge enough for now. I don't think age is a barrier to learning Vim. I'm 78

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 4:30 AM, Anthony Campbell wrote: I dislike word processors. (I've been forced to use OpenOffice for one particular purpose recently and hate it.) I think that the process of generating prose should be separate from producing print-ready copy. So I do all my composing in

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Ben Fritz
On Apr 7, 8:13 pm, David Lam david.k.l...@gmail.com wrote: hmm, well I use Vim for programming mainly, but personally I'd use it for anything involving text two more features you might find useful for plain ol' writing:      - spell checking   :h spell   (basically, :set spell, then z= to

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 8:22 AM, Vera, Pedro L. wrote: I am not a programmer. I use Vim to create and edit text and generate publication ready pdfs, using latex (in particular the vim-latex suite). I have used Vim and latex to produce scientific articles, book chapters, applications to

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 11:19 AM, Anthony Campbell wrote: I don't think age is a barrier to learning Vim. I'm 78 next month and Vim doesn't worry me (admittedly, I started using it quite a few years ago). I find it useful to browse through the documentation when I've nothing better to do; I quite

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Tim Gray
On Apr 08, 2011 at 11:25 AM -0400, Eric Weir wrote: A question regarding a concern raised by another respondent: How do you deal with the absence of word wrap. [Or is that even an issue with latex?] Vim does soft wrap, but it only wraps at the edge of the screen. It can also be set to soft

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 11:22 AM, Ben Fritz wrote: 1. Text objects. Things like cap (change a paragraph) and dis (delete a sentence) would be amazing for writing prose. There are also text objects for text inside quotes, text inside parentheses, and more. See :help text-objects within Vim. These

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Boyko Bantchev
There is also the question how you get text edited with vim into some format you can submit. vim isn't particularly good at editing text with no hard line breaks (tw=0), i.e. soft wrap. In order to get some text formatting into e.g. Word, most likely requires the use of some command line

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Benjamin R. Haskell
On Fri, 8 Apr 2011, Tim Gray wrote: On Apr 08, 2011 at 11:25 AM -0400, Eric Weir wrote: A question regarding a concern raised by another respondent: How do you deal with the absence of word wrap. [Or is that even an issue with latex?] Vim does soft wrap, but it only wraps at the edge of the

RE: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Vera, Pedro L.
Eric Weir [eew...@bellsouth.net] wrote: A question regarding a concern raised by another respondent: How do you deal with the absence of word wrap. [Or is that even an issue with latex?] It's not an issue. Latex will typeset your document according to its (Latex's) own format and syntax

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 11:37 AM, Tim Gray wrote: Vim does soft wrap, but it only wraps at the edge of the screen. It can also be set to soft wrap at word breaks instead of in the middle of words. Thanks, Tim. That much would be good enough for starters, especially if the Vim window is kept at

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread lith
Hi, Well, guess I'm not so old after all. But still old. Usually people are worried about vi(m) being old. :-) vi is 35 years old. (According to wikipedia it was first written 1976). And vim turned 20 this year it seems. Regards, Tom -- You received this message from the vim_use maillist.

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Anthony Campbell
On 08 Apr 2011, Eric Weir wrote: On Apr 8, 2011, at 4:30 AM, Anthony Campbell wrote: I dislike word processors. (I've been forced to use OpenOffice for one particular purpose recently and hate it.) I think that the process of generating prose should be separate from producing

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Tim Chase
On 04/08/2011 10:22 AM, Ben Fritz wrote: 1. Text objects. Things like cap (change a paragraph) and dis (delete a sentence) would be amazing for writing prose. As a matter of fact, almost *all* my usage of the is and as text objects are used when editing prose. They don't serve much purpose

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 11:43 AM, Vera, Pedro L. wrote: Eric Weir [eew...@bellsouth.net] wrote: A question regarding a concern raised by another respondent: How do you deal with the absence of word wrap. [Or is that even an issue with latex?] It's not an issue. Latex will typeset your

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 11:54 AM, lith wrote: Usually people are worried about vi(m) being old. :-) Maybe Vim is old like me -- in some ways, in some [important] ways not. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Tim Gray
On Apr 08, 2011 at 12:17 PM -0400, Eric Weir wrote: That's the way I'd want to go -- and as I've said, the way I worked between MaxThink and word processors for a long time. Well if that's the way you want to go, you could also do straight Latex from Vim. That works very well for many types

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 11:39 AM, Boyko Bantchev wrote: You can compose plain text in Vim so that each paragraph is a single `physical' line (Vim will still form as many screen lines as needed to fit the text in). When you are finished, Word (or whatever so called word processor) will take

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Tim Chase
On 04/08/2011 09:51 AM, Eric Weir wrote: On Apr 7, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Tim Chase wrote: http://oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/ask_tim/1999/unix_editor.html Thanks, Tim. The note on this link recommends O'Reilly's book on Vi and when you go to the O'Reilly pages linked in it their are rave comments

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Grahame Blackwood
Hi All On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 05:02 PM, Anthony Campbell a...@acampbell.org.uk wrote: On 08 Apr 2011, Eric Weir wrote: On Apr 8, 2011, at 4:30 AM, Anthony Campbell wrote: I dislike word processors. (I've been forced to use OpenOffice for one particular purpose recently and hate

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Tony Mechelynck
On 08/04/11 17:08, Eric Weir wrote: On Apr 8, 2011, at 12:52 AM, Magnus Woldrich wrote: Here's my setup: IRC: irssi with vi-mode [0] and ii [1] with vim [2] PDF: apvlv [3] Shell: zsh with set -o vi Music:

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Tony Mechelynck
On 08/04/11 18:01, Eric Weir wrote: On Apr 8, 2011, at 11:43 AM, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: Unfortunately, even with these options, this is an area that vim seems to fall down a little bit on. Other text editors I've used have the capability to soft wrap at user defined columns, while also

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 1:39 PM, Tim Chase wrote: The biggest skill to have when learning Vim is to reflect on what your doing to the point where you see yourself repeating certain actions and then asking (yourself, the help, the mailing list, a book, a Vim wiki, etc.) how you can improve

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 5:33 PM, Tony Mechelynck wrote: Compiling Vim is not really hard, and I've written a couple of how-to pages about it; but by all means get comfortable with Vim as an editor first, and then later on (especially if you aren't on Windows, because on Windows there are

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 5:04 PM, Grahame Blackwood wrote: I am not a programmer but do most of my written work with Vim, aided and abetted by other software to produce good looking documents, even if they are only reports or letters. For reports and longer texts, my use is similar to Anthony's

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread John Little
On Apr 9, 3:08 am, Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote: In addition to my other handicap -- not being a programmer -- I'm old. IMO, and IME, it's the opposite: being young is a handicap for learning to use a decent text editor. Young people get spoon-fed with brain-dead ways of doing things

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
Well, I found time to work through the vim tutor exercise. Pretty basic. Not sure I remember what I learned -- I liked that it said don't try to memorize, to learn by doing -- and in a fog about some things I'm clear about, e.g., how to open a file, how to find out where a file is being saved,

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 8, 2011, at 8:50 PM, John Little wrote: On Apr 9, 3:08 am, Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote: In addition to my other handicap -- not being a programmer -- I'm old. IMO, and IME, it's the opposite: being young is a handicap for learning to use a decent text editor. Young people

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Tim Chase
On 04/08/2011 08:43 PM, Eric Weir wrote: Well, I found time to work through the vim tutor exercise. Pretty basic. Not sure I remember what I learned -- I liked that it said don't try to memorize, to learn by doing Nothing like practice to burn it in :) As mentioned in a previous email, I

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-08 Thread Ben Fritz
On Apr 8, 8:43 pm, Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote: Haven't the faintest idea how to use the manual, i.e., how to open the files listed in the table of contents. I think I need to get one of the books. http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Learn_to_use_help -- You received this message from the

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread tux.
Eric Weir schrob am 07.04.2011 22:15: So, I'm wondering if there are any ordinary, nonprogrammer writers here who've gotten comfortable with Vim as a writer's editor -- or is that just ridiculous to think of? I use Vim (also) as a blog draft editor, so, mainly, yes. However, the full power

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread David Ohlemacher
The way I learned vi: 1. Start a cheatsheet. Don't download one. Make your own. Making it will help you learn. I use Tomboy Notes, but at the beginning, paper is better. 2. Every time you find you don't know how to do something, like joining lines, look it up ( use :help join or google

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Tony Mechelynck
On 07/04/11 22:15, Eric Weir wrote: I've downloaded and installed a copy of MacVim. I've peeked at a few of the help topics. [I'd like to run the tutorial, but haven't figured out how to do that, yet.] I'm not a programmer. Far from it. I'm intrigued for a least a couple reasons, the main one

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Tim Gray
On Apr 07, 2011 at 04:15 PM -0400, Eric Weir wrote: Still, as I imagine many are, I'm a bit intimidated complexity of the commands and the steep learning curve. So, I'm wondering if there are any ordinary, nonprogrammer writers here who've gotten comfortable with Vim as a writer's editor -- or

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread David Kahn
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 3:38 PM, tux. der_tux...@arcor.de wrote: Eric Weir schrob am 07.04.2011 22:15: So, I'm wondering if there are any ordinary, nonprogrammer writers here who've gotten comfortable with Vim as a writer's editor -- or is that just ridiculous to think of? I use Vim (also)

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Paul Stewart
Hi Eric, Firstly, I do use vim for programming (mainly php and sql), but, I also use it as a text editor for typing and writing out stuff. For example, I use it to keep minutes of meetings I attend while I am listeningthe commands allow me to skip around the page so much faster than if I was

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread John Degen
On Apr 7, 11:11 pm, Tim Gray tg...@protozoic.com wrote: On Apr 07, 2011 at 04:15 PM -0400, Eric Weir wrote: Still, as I imagine many are, I'm a bit intimidated complexity of the commands and the steep learning curve. So, I'm wondering if there are any ordinary, nonprogrammer writers here

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread David Kahn
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 3:59 PM, David Ohlemacher dohlemac...@scisol.comwrote: The way I learned vi: 1. Start a cheatsheet. Don't download one. Make your own. Making it will help you learn. I use Tomboy Notes, but at the beginning, paper is better. Agreed... I copied and pasted to an

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 7, 2011, at 4:59 PM, David Ohlemacher wrote: 1. Start a cheatsheet. Don't download one. Make your own. Making it will help you learn. I use Tomboy Notes, but at the beginning, paper is better. After a fairly short time, you'll start getting irritated with all the rest of

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 7, 2011, at 5:03 PM, Tony Mechelynck wrote: And finally, don't hesitate to use the help. When, in one of the posts in this mailing list, you come across a command, an option, etc., which is obscure to you, go find its help. The Vim help is infinitely better than what most other

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 7, 2011, at 5:11 PM, Tim Gray wrote: With that thought, I'd recommend looking at BBEdit (or it's free 'light' version, Textwrangler) or Textmate. Though these programs don't have the modal nature of vim, you can do most if not all of your work in them all through the keyboard:

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 7, 2011, at 5:19 PM, David Kahn wrote: What you can remember is aside from a few things, you can use macvim with the mouse as you get used to it. I actually did my learning curve in about 6-8 hours and got productive (I am a programmer), and for about a week kept looking things up

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Tim Gray
On Apr 07, 2011 at 08:58 PM -0400, Eric Weir wrote: Thanks for the suggestion, Tim. I'll keep it in mind. No problem. I've really been enjoying vim, but I feel like to get the most out of it you need to a) put the time in to learn it and b) put the time in *configuring* to make it work for

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 7, 2011, at 5:27 PM, Paul Stewart wrote: Firstly, I do use vim for programming (mainly php and sql), but, I also use it as a text editor for typing and writing out stuff. For example, I use it to keep minutes of meetings I attend while I am listeningthe commands allow me to

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Eric Weir
On Apr 7, 2011, at 5:33 PM, John Degen wrote: I used to be a translator. In the final years of this 'career' I used Gvim as a sort of frontend to Microsoft Word and translation software. I found that combination of autocompletion, autocorrection, marks, sessions, the convenience of keyboard

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread David Lam
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote: I've downloaded and installed a copy of MacVim. I've peeked at a few of the help topics. [I'd like to run the tutorial, but haven't figured out how to do that, yet.] I'm not a programmer. Far from it. I'm intrigued for a

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Tony Mechelynck
On 08/04/11 02:56, Eric Weir wrote: [...] Wow! Even help for help. Cool. I'd gotten the sense already that Vim's help was really good. But help for help. Pretty cool. With a documentation as voluminous as Vim's, you need ways to help you find what you're looking for: analytical table of

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Tim Chase
On 04/07/2011 08:05 PM, Tim Gray wrote: I feel like to get the most out of it you need to a) put the time in to learn it and b) put the time in *configuring* to make it work for you. While I certainly agree with (a), I'm at the other end of the spectrum on (b). One of the things I like most

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread David Ohlemacher
I have .vim and .vimrc check into my svn repo along with all my environment files (tcsh). Then keeping in sync is just a svn up away. On 04/07/2011 10:20 PM, Tim Chase wrote: On 04/07/2011 08:05 PM, Tim Gray wrote: I feel like to get the most out of it you need to a) put the time in to

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Tony Mechelynck
On 08/04/11 04:20, Tim Chase wrote: On 04/07/2011 08:05 PM, Tim Gray wrote: I feel like to get the most out of it you need to a) put the time in to learn it and b) put the time in *configuring* to make it work for you. While I certainly agree with (a), I'm at the other end of the spectrum on

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Scott Bicknell
On Thu, Apr 07, 2011 at 04:15:37PM -0400, Eric Weir wrote: Still, as I imagine many are, I'm a bit intimidated complexity of the commands and the steep learning curve. So, I'm wondering if there are any ordinary, nonprogrammer writers here who've gotten comfortable with Vim as a writer's

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread lith
Hi, On Thursday, April 7, 2011 10:15:37 PM UTC+2, Eric Weir wrote: Still, as I imagine many are, I'm a bit intimidated complexity of the commands and the steep learning curve. So, I'm wondering if there are any ordinary, nonprogrammer writers here who've gotten comfortable with Vim as a

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Magnus Woldrich
On Apr 7, 2011, at 4:59 PM, David Ohlemacher wrote: After a fairly short time, you'll start getting irritated with all the rest of the apps that make you pick up the mouse. You'll start to hit 'i' out of habit in your email appand not like seeing an i. I use vim for everything. And I have

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Magnus Woldrich
On 2011-04-07 20:56, Eric Weir wrote: Wow! Even help for help. Cool. I'd gotten the sense already that Vim's help was really good. But help for help. Pretty cool. Indeed, the help in vim is fantastic. Other than that, I'd recommend just reading this list; look up stuff people talk about, don't

Re: Any non-programmer users of Vim here?

2011-04-07 Thread Magnus Woldrich
On 2011-04-07 16:15, Eric Weir wrote: So, I'm wondering if there are any ordinary, nonprogrammer writers here who've gotten comfortable with Vim as a writer's editor -- or is that just ridiculous to think of? Though they sure are programmers, I'd like to point out that Tom Christiansen used