Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Yes, I hope the moderators stop it soon!! On 8/26/16, pegkan...@gmail.com wrote: > > I agree with you wholeheartedly, I do not understand why this topic > continues I think it has been blown out of the water and the moderators need > to stop it soon it's getting a little bit

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, I do not understand why this topic continues I think it has been blown out of the water and the moderators need to stop it soon it's getting a little bit ridiculous everyone is allowed to have their own opinions. Peggy Sent from my IPhone. > On Aug 26, 2016,

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

The only other thing I have to say is that I know first hand that the NFB is very pro guide dog. Numerous members have them and there is a very active national division for guide dog users and a number of states have divisions as well. Does the NFB endorce one school over another, no, but they

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Hello. I have to agree about the email bug. I mean, they've had a year to fix it, now. On 26/08/16 03:16, Christopher Chaltain wrote: Well, I think we're talking about more than just a few inconveniences. I was one of those who was hit with that bug where VoiceOver would hang almost every time

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

for those that want to discuss this continue this off list please. -Original Message- From: Eric Oyen Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 11:07 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""] and yet, the NFB

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Hi this is blank > On 26 Aug 2016, at 04:54, Richard Turner wrote: > > > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

-- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

I'm not sure how anyone can know if this is a true statement or not. The fact is, as other's have pointed out, the NFB has taken other companies to task in the past, including Microsoft and Google. The NFB has also applauded and awarded Apple on multiple occasions in the past. I think tossing

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Sorry. More blind people use windowsLess said about Windows 10 accessiblity better. But microsoft pays for the convention and is let off the hook. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2016, at 11:06 AM, Dacia Cole wrote: > > Thank you for the support of the NFB!!

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Sadly because apple doesn't sponsor conventions. They are singled out. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2016, at 10:34 AM, Mário Navarro wrote: > > > > NFB forever! > thank you for all you do for us ... > the ios 10 public beta 6, is very stable and have much

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

heheh. hey tony, thats one hell of a pet peeve. :) yeah, you use the groups about the same way I do. they are supposed to be representing us, aren't they? -eric On Aug 25, 2016, at 3:26 PM, Tony wrote: > Thank you for giving me the opportunity to point out the arrogance of people > like you

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

and yet, the NFB passed a resolution specifically targeting Apple when apple was clearly the best in the field accessibility wise. I have far less issues with their OS (on the laptop or the iPhone) than I do with the windows machine (using jaws or NVDA or even narrator) At least when an app

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

t;> Às 17:46 de 25/08/2016, Dave Mitchel escreveu: >>> you have no idea what others have done for themselves and for the blind >>> community. stop your gushing and learn when it is best to keep your mouth >>> shut. >>> >>> Dave >>>

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Well, I think we're talking about more than just a few inconveniences. I was one of those who was hit with that bug where VoiceOver would hang almost every time I got a call and I had to hard reset my phone. Sure people who weren't hit by this bug can say it's no big deal, but IMHO, that's

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

I agree with what you say about the software engineering process, but I don't think the release early and release often is just an MS issue. When was the last time you saw Apple postpone a release to fix a quality issue or a serious bug? The ramifications of Apple slipping a release would be

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

I probably shouldn't go there, but I use both IOS and Android, and I definitely wouldn't characterize Android as an old rickety house. On 25/08/16 13:34, Devin Prater wrote: Yeah, it'll be exciting once apps release updates designed for it, and maybe I'll be surprised in a good way. I sure

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

And don't forget the awards the NFB gave Apple in 2009 and 2010 for their work on accessibility and including VoiceOver across all of their product lines making their products accessible out of the box. I'm not defending or praising the NFB, but I do think people should look at the whole

RE: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

This messages crashed my system. From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Devin Prater Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 5:10 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain"&

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Well, I may have gotten a bit carried away in my last post – particularly in the post script! I will apologize for that remark about in a be sticking its nose where doesn't belong – but I don't think that organization or any other organization has the right to be critical of someone who prefers

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

There are a couple of points I would like to make in response to some of the pro – NFB emails post it out here. First of all, when the low-quality iOS releases came out both for 8.0 and 9.0 I immediately called Apple support complaining about the fact that obviously the marketers had taken

RE: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to point out the arrogance of people like you who only want to condemn those of us who champion different causes. Last week I was trying to select a funeral home to plan for my wife’s upcoming demise. One of the sites had less than adequate

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Thank you for that information, Wane. I appreciate it. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2016, at 4:55 PM, Wayne Merritt wrote: > > After reading a few messages on this thread, I submit the following: > To those that say that the NFB hasn't spoken against other major tech

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

After reading a few messages on this thread, I submit the following: To those that say that the NFB hasn't spoken against other major tech companies, like Microsoft, Google and Amazon: if you look back at the NFB resolutions since 2009, you will find around 20 passed that were directed either in

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Well said Jonathan! I was not going to get into this fight. I have had some issues also. However, I really understood what Jonathan was saying. I am deeply grateful to Apple for putting a screen reader directly in its operating system, but they truly can do better just as we all can. NFB only

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 10:28 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""] david, be careful what you write ... it's just a advice ... Às 17:46 de 25/08/2016, Dave Mitchel escreveu: you have no idea w

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

n it is best to keep your mouth shut. Dave -Original Message- From: Mário Navarro Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 9:08 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""] you are of those only has intellig

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

bla, bla, bla, bla, bla. that's what you are. blah. ok, I get that. you like to take pictures, and show yourself to everyone. oh let me guess. You also are photographer? go take pictures to other side. Here no one wants them. Às 19:00 de 25/08/2016, Ed Worrell escreveu: Actually Mario, I

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

um. I beg to differ with that. there are times when the NFB (of which I am a member) makes decisions not based on facts, but simply as a means of getting attention. THis appears to be one of those times. Also, apple is the only company that hasn't contributed to the fund that the others have.

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

is best to keep your mouth >> shut. >> >> Dave >> >> >> -Original Message- From: Mário Navarro >> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 9:08 AM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play &quo

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Yeah, it'll be exciting once apps release updates designed for it, and maybe I'll be surprised in a good way. I sure hope so. But until then, Linux will stay on my Mac, and I'll continue trying to figure out how one lives within the open fields of Android, where you're given an old rickedy

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Can’t say anything more than “ditto”. Excited for it to go out of beta. > On 25 Aug 2016, at 15:40, Ed Worrell wrote: > > Actually the NFB had done nothing for the accessibility of iOS 10. Apple was > devoted to improving the accessibility of iOS 10 from the very first

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Google and Microsoft have probably made donations or sponsored a convention or two, so attacking them wouldn't be in the NFB's best interests. I think the main problem with Google's efforts is that there aren't that many people on the team, or they may not know what we need. There's only one

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

. -Original Message- From: Mário Navarro Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 10:28 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""] david, be careful what you write ... it's just a advice ... Às 17:46 de 25/0

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Actually Mario, I am a co-owner of my own assistive technology training company. I volunteer at a training center once a month helping newly blinded adults, I work with the National Library Services Montana Talking Book library, I am the president of the Great Falls chapter of the Montana

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

- From: Mário Navarro Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 9:08 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""] you are of those only has intelligence to criticize what others do for you ... You should criticiz

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

, 2016 9:29 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""] Mary, my answer to you is: read the post from Jonathan Mosen. http://mosen.org/that-nfb-resolution/ Às 17:15 de 25/08/2016, Mary Otten escreveu: Mario, Sin

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""] you are of those only has intelligence to criticize what others do for you ... You should criticize less and work more for the cause of the blind and accessibility. instead, you are those who are always waiting for

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Mario, no one is questioning that Apple has bugs in their software at times and some of those bugs are problematic. However, it seems a little disingenuous to me that the national Federation of the blind criticizes Apple for their excess ability yet doesn't say anything about other companies

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Mary, my answer to you is: read the post from Jonathan Mosen. http://mosen.org/that-nfb-resolution/ Às 17:15 de 25/08/2016, Mary Otten escreveu: Mario, Since you don't know me or anything about my history, you are way out of bounds with your criticism. Just because I don't fall into

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Mario, Since you don't know me or anything about my history, you are way out of bounds with your criticism. Just because I don't fall into lockstep, and I'm not willing to ignore the fact that the Federation gets money from other vendors, whom they didn't do not criticize and resolutions,

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

you are of those only has intelligence to criticize what others do for you ... You should criticize less and work more for the cause of the blind and accessibility. instead, you are those who are always waiting for others to do for you. NFB never done anything for you? read this and learn.

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Two years in a row, and if he has had resolutions which specifically called out Apple. At the first of those conventions, they were calling Google and accessibility champion. Why doesn't NFB spend equal time on other companies, especially google, which is still behind Apple and someways, but

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

They didn't get any money from Apple. It's very simple. Mary Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2016, at 6:44 AM, Roger Frischenmeyer > wrote: > > I find it interesting that the resolution is critical of Apple for not > testing their releases for excess ability

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Hi Bill, I have to agree with you. If NFB had any influence on Apple, good. I doubt it, but the point is the hypocrisy. They called Google and excess ability champion, because Google gave them money. This was before all the talkback improvements. There were no damning resolutions for Google,

RE: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

ps.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mário Navarro Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 9:35 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""] NFB forever! thank you for all you do for us ... the ios

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 6:54 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""] While I haven't heard about the mentioned resolution, I have had personal

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Thank you for the support of the NFB!! I'm glad it has provided a better stable beta cycle. No, we don't always make the most popular decisions, but we have the progress of all blind people in mind when we pass these resolutions. thanks, Dacia On 8/25/16, Bill Gallik

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

The truth is that Apple had those improved procedures in place long before NFB ever opened its’ collective mouth. You have no idea of the long term planning that goes into the software life cycle. Being a retired software engineer (Bell Labs) I’m accutely aware of the lead time that goes into

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

To The Jay hawk Fan specifically and all members of the list in general, Thank you, that was precisely my point. Apple certainly is not perfect in the accessibility realm, but other tech companies who have a history of not caring in the least about accessibility seemingly get a free pass on

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

So if the national Federation for the blind is so powerful, why aren't they making other operating systems more accessible? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2016, at 9:34 AM, Mário Navarro wrote: > > > > NFB forever! > thank you for all you do for us ... > the

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Actually the NFB had done nothing for the accessibility of iOS 10. Apple was devoted to improving the accessibility of iOS 10 from the very first betas. The first betas happened before the NFB resolutions even were passed. Apple will do what Apple wants to do. This cycle of betas were focused

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

NFB forever! thank you for all you do for us ... the ios 10 public beta 6, is very stable and have much less issues than in previous betas systems. I'm testing the cycle of ios 10 betas and I can tell you had never before tested a system as so stable for accessibility. this is the system

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

I now use Linux on my Apple computer. I also have an Android tablet, but that's more for seeing if I want my nexp phone to be Android. I have nothing against the people at Apple, I just would rather have more control and freedom on my devices, and know that there are plenty people where that

RE: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 6:54 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""] While I haven't heard about the mentioned resolution, I have had personal experience with NFB personnel at v

RE: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 7:21 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""] More criticism of the NFB that they're enfatuated wi

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

I find it interesting that the resolution is critical of Apple for not testing their releases for excess ability and issues around the voiceover software, yet no resolution called on any other technology company to even work to make their product. Fully accessible. I wonder if there is a little

Re: nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

Here is a link to all the resolutions that we voted on for the 2016 convention. As someone who was there, there was lots of discussion about the apple resolution and the general consensus was that we love what apple is doing, but that there is always room for improvement.

nfb RESOLUTION [WAS "Re: Let's Play "King of the Mountain""]

More criticism of the NFB that they're enfatuated with Apple than I have that they're Apple bashers. I tend to think neither is true and this is more the view of the individual making this claim than it is of the entire NFB organization. I'd suggest looking at the whole issue, all of the