OTOH, on Nickeland/or Stainless Steel surfaces that have been
exposed to atmospheric O2 the O2 dissociates into bound
O atoms ( 2 * 55.39 = 110.78 kcal/mole free energy)
and adsorbed water dissociates to bound H + OH.
Typically Raney Nickel has a surface area of 100 Square Meters
per
t;Alice"
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber
To: vortex-l
Sent: 5/29/2006 2:14:00 AM
Subject: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
OTOH, on Nickeland/or Stainless Steel surfaces that have been
exposed to atmospheric O2 the O2 dissociates into bound
delta G, Gibbs Free Energy from CRC tables.
H-OH - 56.687
OH + 8.18
HO-OH - 28.78
H +48.58
H2 0.00
O + 55.39
O2 0.00
H + OH + E = H-OH
E = - 56.69+ 8.18 +48.58 = 0.073
2 H-OH + O2 + E = 4 OH
E = 2 (56.687) + 4 ( 8.18)
E = 113.374 + 32.72
E = 146.094
4 OH + E = 2 HO-OH
E = 2 (-28.78)
THE INTERACIION OF WATER WITH SOLID SURFACES:
FUNDAMENTAL ASPECTS
http://www.physics.rutgers.edu/~wchen/Madey_page/Full_Publications/PDF/madey_SSR_1987_T.pdf
5 Dlssoclatlve adsorptlon on clean metals
5 1 Eqmhbrmm conslderatlons a survey of the Perlodlc Table
5 2 Kmetlc bamers
5 3 Examples of
Cell "pilot current".
Not bad if the "auto-electrolysis" is occurring on the 316 stainless steel electrode
surfaces.
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber
To: vortex-l
Sent: 5/25/2006 5:24:49 AM
Subject: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
Accord
-Original Message-
From: Frederick Sparber
In trying to ascertain my own sanity, if the engine combustion process
is normal and using the 4.8E8 joule 4 gallon gasoline equivalent
in a 2 hour (7200 second) 50 mph 100 mile trip it begs the question
of how much free auto-electrolysis
Terry wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Frederick Sparber
In trying to ascertain my own sanity, if the engine combustion process
is normal and using the 4.8E8 joule 4 gallon gasoline equivalent
in a 2 hour (7200 second) 50 mph 100 mile trip it begs the question
of how much free
Some basics on Nickel-Chromium oxidation covered here(50 page pdf)
http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/Teaching/mat1b/courseB/BH1-BH9.pdf
1, The battery voltage B - and B+ is divided bythe floating plates F across the 4 cells.
2, The naturally formed H3O + (or H + ) and OH - ions of the water collected at the floating
plate interface allows the the electron of the OH - to go through the floated plates to neutralize
the H3O + or
: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
1, The battery voltage B - and B+ is divided by the floating plates F
across the 4 cells.
2, The naturally formed H3O + (or H + ) and OH - ions of the water
collected at the floating
plate interface allows the the electron of the OH
Michel Jullian wrote.
Fred, here are two interesting related articles. They are right on topic
and
make the link between the Gibbs Free Energy change we were discussing the
other day and equilibrium concentrations of reactants and products:
That part is easy Michel, there are lots of data
Here it is. All 175 Pages :-)
P A Thiel, T E Madey / The interaction of water with solid surfaces:
http://www.physics.rutgers.edu/~wchen/Madey_page/Full_Publications/PDF/madey
_SSR_1987_T.pdf
P A Thiel, T E Madey / The interaction of water with solid surfaces:
http://www.physics.rutgers.edu/~wchen/Madey_page/Full_Publications/PDF/madey
_SSR_1987_T.pdf
Finally, the magnitude of the chemical bond which water forms with metal
surfaces is typically on the order of 40 to 65 kJ/mol (10 to
Posted earlier.
With our cell adding a very small amount of baking
soda increased the current from 2 milliamperes up
to 21 milliamperes.
Gas yield tests are under way using balloons so that
pressure or vacuum in the electrolysis chamber can be handled.
At 17-19 milliamperes, several
hysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/electric/capcyl.html
"the capacitance per unit length is defined as"
2 (pi) K * eo/ ln [b/a]
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber
To: vortex-l
Sent: 5/22/2006 1:27:24 AM
Subject: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell
PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
This is the backbone of Ultracapacitor-Supercapacitor Technology.
http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm
Helmholtz envisaged
PM
Subject: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
This is the backbone of Ultracapacitor-Supercapacitor Technology.
http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm
Helmholtz envisaged a capacitor-like separation of anionic and
cationic
charges across
Interfacial Energy Etc.
Getting to the Energy (joules per square meter) at the
Water-Metal-Metal Oxide Interface.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_tension
Effect of NaOH (raises surface tension of water)
Detergents lower surface tension.
Effect on Electrolysis of Water at Interface.
tal
or Water-Metal Oxide Interface?
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber
To: vortex-l
Sent: 5/18/2006 1:50:33 AM
Subject: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
Interfacial Energy Etc.
Getting to the Energy (joules per square meter) at the
Water
Home recipes for dishwashers suggests a 50-50 mix
of Borax and Baking Soda.
In the electrolysis cell might this aid the interfacial
Water-Metal or Water-Metal Oxide "wetting" or
will it act in a deleterious effect?
With our cell adding a very small amount of baking
soda increased the current
Frederick Sparber wrote:
That is interesting Harry.
But why use the feeble electrostatic motors
Aesthetics.
I like how charge is directly converted into kinetic motion.
Anyway, with ultracapacitors couldn't you make them more
powerful?
when you can use the helium balloon tethered
fair
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
Michel Jullian wrote:
I don't know what you're after Fred (power from surface effects? All I
Michel Jullian writes:
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
Michel Jullian wrote:
I don't know what you're after Fred
Title: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
Of related interest.
Ben Franklin's electrostatic motor:
http://www.todaysengineer.org/2002/Aug/heritage.asp
Harry
Frederick Sparber wrote:
Richard's off-hand quip about static electricity reminded me of
an Electrostatic
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:46 AM
I'm after that ~ 80,000 joule/mole Spontaneous Free Energy in the
Autoionization of Water
( 0.83 eV per H-OH bond, 2 H2O --- H3O+ + OH -)
Fred do you
Title: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
They're called Electrostatic Voltmeters, Harry.
OTOH. If you tie a high gain antenna with a series diode
to the positive plate (anode) and earth ground the
cathode, you can use all of that "Free Energy" from
Cell Phones
Michel Jullian wrote.
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:46 AM
I'm after that ~ 80,000 joule/mole Spontaneous Free Energy in the
Autoionization of Water
( 0.83 eV per H-OH bond, 2 H2O ---
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
They're called Electrostatic Voltmeters, Harry.
OTOH. If you tie a high gain antenna
Title: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
But it can also function as a motor. (Maybe nanoscale motors work this way.)
What I was wondering is whether the friction of motion could
be used to replenish the static charges and keep the motor turning.
Harry
Frederick
That is interesting Harry.
But why use the feeble electrostatic motors
when you can use the helium balloon tethered
fair weather field collector voltage-current to make
OH and H gas to run a ICE?
You can also store the fair weather field energy in a capacitor
or storage battery then dump it
A 0.1 volt "Zeta Potential" across the 0.2 nanometer Metal-Water
interface is 500 million volts per meter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fowler-Nordheim_equation
" The Fowler-Nordheim equation in solid state physics relates current, work and electric field strength to determine field emission.
16, 2006 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
A 0.1 volt Zeta Potential across the 0.2 nanometer Metal-Water
interface is 500 million volts per meter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fowler-Nordheim_equation
The Fowler-Nordheim equation in solid state physics
2=water.AB.OS=IN/Klein+AND+ABST/waterRS=IN/Klein+AND+ABST/water
Fred
Michel
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: Helmholtz Layer Metal-Water Interface, Joe Cell Etc
A 0.1 volt
Richard's off-hand quip about static electricity reminded me of
an "Electrostatic Dragster"post I made along those lines 17 June 2005.
One might do a lot better on Electrolysis Over-Unity by tying
the negative (cathode) to Earth Ground as opposed to "floating"
it using a battery supply only.
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