Re: [Vo]:Cold Fusion and the Star Trek Economy

2011-12-15 Thread Alain Sepeda
interesting vision. basic income is a liberal version of the basic public interest services : basic education, transport, food, culture... it can be criticized because nothing prevent you to use basic income to gamble on horses or drink, instead of educating your kids or building your

Re: [Vo]:Cold Fusion and the Star Trek Economy

2011-12-15 Thread Alain Sepeda
just a link http://davecline.posterous.com/the-implications-of-free-energy some good ideas 2011/12/14 Zell, Chris chrisz...@wetmtv.com

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.netwrote: http://www.heise.de/tp/**artikel/35/35803/1.htmlhttp://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/35/35803/1.html English translation http://translate.google.com/**translate?sl=detl=enjs=n**

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: The other tests cannot be faked as far as I know. No skeptic has come up with a plausible method. After all this time, I do not think any skeptic will come up with anything. At least, not with anything that can be

Re: [Vo]:entanglement broadcasting

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: This experiment supports my contention that entanglement, a key mechanism in the cold fusion process, can be broadcast from one entangled ensemble to induce entanglement in another ensemble even at high temperatures.

[Vo]:The first half of the third part of my Cold Fusion History.

2011-12-15 Thread Peter Gluck
My dear friends, please read: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2011/12/my-cold-fusion-history-iii.html This is a very personal (I apologize!) and absolutely sincere writing. In the previous part: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2011/05/my-cold-fusion-history-ii.html the most tragic one, I

Re: [Vo]:entanglement broadcasting

2011-12-15 Thread Berke Durak
Axil Axil wrote: I think I can safely say no one understands quantum mechanics, the late physicist Richard Feynman once famously explained. Does anyone know if and how entanglement effects are explained in stochastic electrodynamics? -- Berke Durak

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote: The other tests cannot be faked as far as I know. No skeptic has come up with a plausible method. Jed, your memory must be even worse than mine. I mean it. Take your analysis here: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/Rossi6Oct2011Review.pdf

Re: [Vo]:Cold Fusion and the Star Trek Economy

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: just a link http://davecline.posterous.com/the-implications-of-free-energy some good ideas I disagree with one of the author's main points, which is: Although it might seem that way on first ponder, unfortunately free energy would fail to release

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion tells a reader : visit us

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
If they are going to allow visits, they should start by inviting Stremmenos. - Jed

RE: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Robert Leguillon
Jed, You should read the report you cite again. He doesn't ignore that the reactor remained at boiling temperatures for four hours. He takes it head-on. Go straight to pages 8 and 9. Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 09:31:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz From:

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 8:31 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: You ignore the central fact about this test which is that the reactor remained at boiling temperatures for four hours with no input power. Big deal. It weighs 100 kg. Ten kg is enough to stay at boiling for 40 hours,

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: You should read the report you cite again. He doesn't ignore that the reactor remained at boiling temperatures for four hours. He takes it head-on. Go straight to pages 8 and 9. I saw that. That is an attempt to explain the Tout

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: 1. Stored energy can only cause the temperature to decline monotonically, very rapidly at first (Newton's law of cooling). Yet this heat increased during the event. Not true. If the inside is hotter than the outside,

[Vo]:E-cat impact

2011-12-15 Thread Peter Gluck
Found this: http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/267375/20111215/cold-fusion-impact-rossi-s-e-cat.htm -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

RE: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Yamali Yamali
The fact that it remained hot is all the proof you need. I don't get it. If there was no nuclear reaction and all of the energy came from thermal storage, then in deed the device will stay hot for a long time. However if all the heat came from a nuclear reaction, I'd expect it to cool down

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Horace Heffner
On Dec 15, 2011, at 5:31 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote: The other tests cannot be faked as far as I know. No skeptic has come up with a plausible method. Jed, your memory must be even worse than mine. I mean it. Take your analysis here:

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion tells a reader : visit us

2011-12-15 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 6:55 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: If they are going to allow visits, they should start by inviting Stremmenos. LOL!

Re: [Vo]:E-cat impact

2011-12-15 Thread Mary Yugo
Meanwhile, Rossi continues to enrich the English language. His latest contribution is cinfudential. I assume it has something to do with Elmer Fudd but I am not sure what. Andrea Rossi December 14th, 2011 at 6:02 PM Dear Paolo Accomazzi: I will publish the theory when I will have the

Re: [Vo]:E-cat impact

2011-12-15 Thread Peter Gluck
Dear Mary, it is not elegant to pick such minor things.Do not forget what has told Buffon about Style. The letters u, i and o are adjacent on QWERTY so this is a natural typo. I do similar things when in hurry, my cataract is of great help. Please focus on the essentials. Peter On Thu, Dec 15,

[Vo]:eCat Electric COP : 2

2011-12-15 Thread Alan J Fletcher
Andrea Rossi December 15th, 2011 at 2:46 AM Dear Aussie Guy: To make 1 thermal MWh/h of energy you will need 160 kWh/h (thermal or electric). This system will yield 300-330 kWh/h of electric energy. This, with the best available conversion system we got so far. In sustained mode this can be

RE: [Vo]:eCat Electric COP : 2

2011-12-15 Thread Robert Leguillon
Obviously, you just buy three 1MW reactors, and feed the output of the first to the inputs of the other two. Voila! COP=4 Simply buy 15 E-Cats, feed 1 into 2, into 4, into 8 and you'll have a COP of 16. Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 09:39:17 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: a...@well.com

Re: [Vo]:eCat Electric COP : 2

2011-12-15 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:39 AM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: I haven't run the numbers, but that seems marginally economical to me. Of course, you still get COP 4 of (lower grade) heat out of it, so as a mixed system it may be OK. ** ** (lenr.qumbu.com -- analyzing the

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote: Your choice of my paper as an example is diversionary because (1) it only deals with one test . . . I have dealt with the other tests, separately, as have others. Some of them are also definitive. The last one was not! and (2) it assumes a

[Vo]:Crowd-funded test? List of pro-LENR scientists

2011-12-15 Thread Alan J Fletcher
A couple of articles on my daily scan : A Crowd Funding Approach to E-Cat Testing http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/12/1499/ ... One idea that has been brought up on this site recently that might serve to break the deadlock is that interested people might purchase a 1 MW plant through a

Re: [Vo]:E-cat impact

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Meanwhile, Rossi continues to enrich the English language. His latest contribution is cinfudential. It is a typo for crying out loud. Don't be such a pill. Rossi's English is probably better than your Italian, so do not criticize. As Peter said, this is

RE: [Vo]:eCat Electric COP : 2

2011-12-15 Thread Robert Leguillon
Or, if Rossi's claims of taming the wild cat really have merit, it's much more simple. If it needs 160 kw electrical input, feed 160 kw of the 300-330 output, and have a 140 to 170 kW generator with no electrical input. COP = infinity. And a TRUE self-sustaining device exists. From:

[Vo]:WAY OFF TOPIC Baby Seal Enters House, Sleeps On Couch

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
This is unbearably cute. Baby Seal Enters House, Sleeps On Couch (PHOTOS) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/14/baby-seal-house-couch_n_1146980.html - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Crowd-funded test? List of pro-LENR scientists

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
Spending a million bucks for this is crazy. The machine will be obsolete in six months. Unless you have a need for 1 MW of heat, it will be useless. If you have $1 million burning a hole in your pocket, give it to me that I will have this thing replicated in no time. People such as Miley could

Re: [Vo]:Crowd-funded test? List of pro-LENR scientists

2011-12-15 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Spending a million bucks for this is crazy. The machine will be obsolete in six months. Unless you have a need for 1 MW of heat, it will be useless. If you have $1 million burning a hole in your pocket, give it to me

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion tells a reader : visit us

2011-12-15 Thread Peter Heckert
Am 14.12.2011 21:05, schrieb Mary Yugo: On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Charly Sistovaris charlysi...@gmail.comwrote: That's in Athens, not Xanthi which is a town in the North. You often bring up good arguments, but the bickering is a tiresome. I simply copied the information given by

Re: [Vo]:E-cat impact

2011-12-15 Thread OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
I'd be dead without spell checker. I suspect I'm not alone on that. I wonder if MY is taking lessons from Mr. Krivit. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Crowd-funded test? List of pro-LENR scientists

2011-12-15 Thread Akira Shirakawa
On 2011-12-15 19:08, Jed Rothwell wrote: If you have $1 million burning a hole in your pocket, give it to me that I will have this thing replicated in no time. People such as Miley could replicate most of it in a short time if they had ~$50,000 in funding. Or $5,000. Would he really be able

Re: [Vo]:E-cat impact

2011-12-15 Thread Mary Yugo
It was joke-- pls. lighten up!

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion tells a reader : visit us

2011-12-15 Thread Peter Heckert
Am 15.12.2011 19:12, schrieb Peter Heckert: Am 14.12.2011 21:05, schrieb Mary Yugo: On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Charly Sistovaris charlysi...@gmail.comwrote: That's in Athens, not Xanthi which is a town in the North. You often bring up good arguments, but the bickering is a tiresome. I

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Yamali Yamali
  Stored heat can only emerge. It cannot stay hot. It has cool monotonically, according to Newton's law: You're burning the last point I held for Rossi (which was that I wondered whether scientists could be fooled so easily - apparently they can). Newton's law would not be violated, of course.

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Horace Heffner
On Dec 15, 2011, at 6:21 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: You should read the report you cite again. He doesn't ignore that the reactor remained at boiling temperatures for four hours. He takes it head-on. Go straight to pages 8 and 9. I

Re: [Vo]:Crowd-funded test? List of pro-LENR scientists

2011-12-15 Thread Alan J Fletcher
At 10:14 AM 12/15/2011, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Would he really be able to replicate sustained kW-level excess heat (of course, with watt-level input) with just $50,000 in funding or so? Serious question. Without the secret Magic Unicorn dust? Probably not.

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion tells a reader : visit us

2011-12-15 Thread Alan J Fletcher
At 10:32 AM 12/15/2011, Peter Heckert wrote: The mechanism is constructed in such a way that any hard x-rays so far, so good ... or external gamma measurements are detected and it will trigger. How can you detect an EXTERNAL gamma measurement? Or do you mean that an attempt to probe the

Re: [Vo]:Crowd-funded test? List of pro-LENR scientists

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I can't believe that Miley can't get $5K or even $100K of funds a year. That's chump change for any large company. Well, he and I have been beating the bushes trying to get funding. Nothing yet. If you know a company with that kind of chump change, please

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion tells a reader : visit us

2011-12-15 Thread Peter Heckert
Am 15.12.2011 19:50, schrieb Alan J Fletcher: At 10:32 AM 12/15/2011, Peter Heckert wrote: The mechanism is constructed in such a way that any hard x-rays so far, so good ... or external gamma measurements are detected and it will trigger. How can you detect an EXTERNAL gamma measurement?

Re: [Vo]:Crowd-funded test? List of pro-LENR scientists

2011-12-15 Thread ecat builder
I think DKG will have a Hyperion for a demo very soon. Take a few barrels of water, a watch, thermometer and run it with power going through a 3A fuse. Heat a barrel of water in an hour, or a whole pool in a couple of days. If DKG does it right, they'll have a number of scientists and reporters on

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Alan J Fletcher
At 10:45 AM 12/15/2011, Horace Heffner wrote: Just to be clear, no one is talking about heating the outside box metal envelope. My focus is entirely the inside box, the 30 cm x 30 cm x 30 cm inside box, the insides of which no one has seen. It is easy to place a thermal mass inside this

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote: 3. The data shows that the reactor cools in ~40 min. when the power is cut. That is the actual, measured limit of stored heat with this system, at these temperatures and inputs. That is merely a measure of the stored heat and thermal

Re: [Vo]:entanglement broadcasting

2011-12-15 Thread pagnucco
A pretty counter-intuitive phenomenon. So were super-conductivity and lasing. I believe both emission and absorption of radiation can be strongly enhanced in a volume of entangled (coherent) particles - even when it's spatial extent is greater than the radiation wave-length. See:

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: As for the rest of your comments . . . I am not the only one who disagrees with you. So do all of the knowledgeable people I asked to review your paper. I suggest you ask one of them for a critique. Does he know who

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Does he know who these knowledgeable people are? Do we? Cold fusion researchers who know a lot about calorimetry. The usual suspects. Horace is well acquainted with them, and generally held in high regard, I believe. - Jed

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Does he know who these knowledgeable people are? Do we? Cold fusion researchers who know a lot about calorimetry. The usual suspects. Horace is well acquainted with them, and

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Horace Heffner
On Dec 15, 2011, at 8:49 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote: Your choice of my paper as an example is diversionary because (1) it only deals with one test . . . I have dealt with the other tests, separately, as have others. Some of them are also

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: So these people support your views about the impossibility of storing enough heat during the warmup period in the large Ottoman E-cat of October 6 to account for the results? It would be more correct to say I support their views, or we arrived at the

[Vo]:Bob Park is back!

2011-12-15 Thread Peter Gluck
In his Dec 01 (?) What's New, Bob Park speaks in his usual style about cold fusion see- LET ME COUNT THE WAYS: PSEUDOSCIENCE IS AN ENORMOUS FIELD CF is on the first place! -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
I have bowed out of this discussion, but let me clarify this point: Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote: Oh come now. I have dealt with fraud by pointing that Yugo's claims of stage magic is not falsifiable. Uhhh how does that differ from just ignoring it? It is a problem

Re: [Vo]:Bob Park is back!

2011-12-15 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: In his Dec 01 (?) What's New, Bob Park speaks in his usual style about cold fusion see- LET ME COUNT THE WAYS: PSEUDOSCIENCE IS AN ENORMOUS FIELD CF is on the first place! You must be on his mailing list. The

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: It is a problem of logic, as I explained to Yugo. An assertion that cannot be tested or falsified cannot be debated. I cannot dispute it. Or agree with it, for that matter. It is meaningless. You keep saying that but

Re: [Vo]:Bob Park is back!

2011-12-15 Thread Peter Gluck
no link yet, sorry but this is the relevant text: 3. LET ME COUNT THE WAYS: PSEUDOSCIENCE IS AN ENORMOUS FIELD There are, I think, many more of them than there are of us. Let me mention just a few of the more notorious: Stanley Pons and Martin Fleishman, who gave us Cold Fusion in 1989, are the

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Alan J Fletcher
At 11:08 AM 12/15/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote: I need to add phase-change salts (and possibly even ceramic bricks) to my fakes paper. Can you give me / point me to a likely candidate? http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~meam502/project/reviewexample2.pdf (2007) Very few with a melting-point above 100C

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: It is a problem of logic, as I explained to Yugo. An assertion that cannot be tested or falsified cannot be debated. I cannot dispute it. Or agree with it, for that matter. It is meaningless. You keep saying that but other people and I keep pointing out

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: I am talking about YOUR STATEMENT, taken in isolation, strictly from a logical point of view. I am NOT TALKING ABOUT what Rossi can or cannot do. Apart from everything else, why on earth would you want to do that?

Re: [Vo]:Bob Park is back!

2011-12-15 Thread OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
Thanks for posting the actual paragraph, Peter. 3. LET ME COUNT THE WAYS: PSEUDOSCIENCE IS AN ENORMOUS FIELD There are, I think, many more of them than there are of us. Let me mention just a few of the more notorious:  Stanley Pons and Martin Fleishman, who gave us Cold Fusion in 1989, are

Re: [Vo]:entanglement broadcasting

2011-12-15 Thread Axil Axil
Does anyone know if and how entanglement effects are explained in stochastic electrodynamics? -- See: Second entanglement and (re)Born wave functions in Stochastic Electrodynamics http://nonloco-physics.0catch.com/aip05.pdf On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com

[Vo]:Thoughts about Mass and Gravitation and zeropoint.

2011-12-15 Thread Peter Heckert
Hi, my thesis is that matter sucks up energy and this is the reason for gravity. I dont know in which frequency range this happens, but I think matter sucks up zeropoint energy and converts it to matter. There was a similar theory that was discussed by Clerk Maxwell and Boltzmann and others.

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Stephen A. Lawrence
On 11-12-15 03:52 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I am talking about YOUR STATEMENT, taken in isolation, strictly from a logical point of view. I am NOT TALKING ABOUT what Rossi can

Re: [Vo]:Bob Park is back!

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
The whole thing is related to pseudoscience and ignorance, and it's all relevant. Here it is: 1. HACKS: SHODDY PRESS COVERAGE OF SCIENCE. The Leveson Inquiry into the standards and ethics of the UK press, headed by Lord Justice Brian Leveson, was prompted by the News of the World phone- hacking

Re: [Vo]:Bob Park is back!

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone seriously question the possibility that Park remains unaware of Rossi, Defkalion, and the rest of the eCat gang? Seriously? It hasn't been in the mass media much. I don't anyone who has discussed this with Park . . .

Re: [Vo]:Bob Park is back!

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Most confirmed skeptics refuse to read anything. It's not refusal. It's that they are not interested. Most skeptics are satisfied that if the grandiose claims were real, simple and obvious demonstrations would not only

Re: [Vo]:Bob Park is back!

2011-12-15 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: If he attacks cold fusion I do not think he would hold back from attacking Rossi. Everyone I know thinks they are the same phenomenon. Guess you don't know me! I think there might possibly be something to cold

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: The problem with Jed's point is that it's vulnerable to a reductio ad absurdum. Specifically, it leads to a rather obvious logical conclusion, which goes something like this: If you can't think of a specific way this scientist's work could have

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Oh come now. I have dealt with fraud by pointing that Yugo's claims of stage magic is not falsifiable. I don't know who you think is convinced by that. Of course it's falsifiable. Just run the experiment long enough

Re: [Vo]:Bob Park is back!

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo also says she has read no papers. No longer the case. I slogged through a couple, was not impressed by their clarity and robustness and stopped reading them. If you find McKubre, Miles or Storms difficult to read then you are not very good at

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: The power between 150 and 250 shown in the cooling loop is more or less stable, meaning the thing has reached the terminal temperature. It has achieved a balance between input and output. It's stable because it's

Re: [Vo]:eCat Electric COP : 2

2011-12-15 Thread Alain Sepeda
by the way the COP=6 is first conservative, but the need is not of electricity but of heat... of course today he use electricity because it is easy to control. in fact it seems that hyperion, and maybe soon e-cat will self sustain quite long. also as said here, if you can produce electricity,

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.netwrote: Rossi's tests and explanations are full of holes and self contradictions, impossibilities. It is Rossi's tests and explanations that matter. All the blather from the peanut gallery is irrelevant, except possibly

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: I need to add phase-change salts (and possibly even ceramic bricks) to my fakes paper. Can you give me / point me to a likely candidate? You might also consider reversible metal-hydride reactions.

Re: [Vo]:Crowd-funded test? List of pro-LENR scientists

2011-12-15 Thread Alain Sepeda
paying for a demo could be proposed, but since if true it will be done next year, that would just for impatient fan. about cash, don't forget the escrowed cash... but once you have the machine, the best would be to find a good usage. who knows someone needing 1MW thermal ? vegetable farmer,

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Other than Talbot Chubb every researcher I have discussed this with believes most of the claims. Not many on record though. It will be interesting if the ecat comes to nothing, to see how they will rationalize their

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: It is a problem of logic, as I explained to Yugo. An assertion that cannot be tested or falsified cannot be debated. I cannot dispute it. Or agree with it, for that matter. It is meaningless. This sounds like the

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: At 11:08 AM 12/15/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote: I need to add phase-change salts (and possibly even ceramic bricks) to my fakes paper. Can you give me / point me to a likely candidate?

Re: [Vo]:eCat Electric COP : 2

2011-12-15 Thread Aussie Guy E-Cat
When you feed the output back into the input and there is additional power to supply energy to an external load, then the COP is infinite as also occurs in a Fossil or Nuclear plant which also have infinite COPs if you exclude the energy obtained from the fuel. So claiming a LENR generator has

Re: [Vo]:eCat Electric COP : 2

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: For the E-Cat or any other LENR generator to make inroads into the global energy generation market, the LCOE per kWh of delivered energy must be lower than from any other comparable energy sources or there is simply no market for it. Yup.

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I am saying that as a rule of logic, all assertions much be falsifiable, Resorting to misunderstood rules is the refuge of people who have no good arguments left. Falsifiability just means it should be possible to

Re: [Vo]:eCat Electric COP : 2

2011-12-15 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: For the E-Cat or any other LENR generator to make inroads into the global energy generation market, the LCOE per kWh of delivered energy must be lower than from any

Re: [Vo]:Bob Park is back!

2011-12-15 Thread OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
Jed, Peter can correct me if I error on this point but I believe he has repeatedly attempted to contact Dr. Park specifically in regard to the Rossi saga. Numerous times. I believe Peter as posted the fact that Park has never responded to any of his repeated inquiries. I'm sure others have

Re: [Vo]:eCat Electric COP : 2

2011-12-15 Thread Aussie Guy E-Cat
That is why I'm not fussed about why it works as long as it works and the LCOE fits my target market. When either Leonardo or DGT announce their Ac kWh devices, with prices, then we can determine into which markets these devices can and can not be sold. For any new energy generation

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: If you can't think of a specific way this EXPERIMENTAL scientist's work could have jumped the tracks, then you have no basis to challenge the conclusions. I can't think of any way (much less a specific way) that

[Vo]:Possible Proof of Peter's theory of gravity and New Matter Accrual

2011-12-15 Thread Wm. Scott Smith
Peter, your thoughts about matter sucking ZPE and accruing mass may be extremely important. Your theory is a fascinatingly possible explanation for how the Earth has grown to its present size. If I brought you a box of broken glass, then assembled it into a perfect sphere, with no leftover

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: If you can't think of a specific way this EXPERIMENTAL scientist's work could have jumped the tracks, then you have no basis to challenge the conclusions. First of all, there are many specific ways suggested to

Re: [Vo]:eCat Electric COP : 2

2011-12-15 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I don't understand any of that in the slightest. Then I suggest you read Christensen and some other books about business. Some of these ideas are complicated. You have to do your homework. The device as it is supposed to be would immediately and

Re: [Vo]:Bob Park is back!

2011-12-15 Thread Charles Hope
It's not relevant, because his criticism is against innumeracy, which applies to such delusions as astrology and homeopathy, but not cold fusion, where the most serious advocates are scientists, who certainly know their differential equations. Why would anyone mention cold fusion in 2011, and

[Vo]:CF as a historical phenomenon

2011-12-15 Thread Charles Hope
Are there any examples of pathological science persisting 20 years without being properly debunked? Are there any examples of new science remaining on the fringe for 20 years before being finally accepted into the mainstream?

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Stephen A. Lawrence
On 11-12-15 06:11 PM, Joshua Cude wrote: Falsifiability just means it should be possible to conceive of an experimental result that would contradict the assertion. It's intended to avoid religious claims in a scientific arena. It actually has much broader applications than just that. Hang

Re: [Vo]:eCat Electric COP : 2

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Then I suggest you read Christensen and some other books about business. Some of these ideas are complicated. You have to do your homework. An amazing new revolutionary technology promising to replace fossil fuels...

Re: [Vo]:Bob Park is back!

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Charles Hope lookslikeiwasri...@gmail.comwrote: It's not relevant, because his criticism is against innumeracy, which applies to such delusions as astrology and homeopathy, but not cold fusion, where the most serious advocates are scientists, who certainly know

Re: [Vo]:eCat Electric COP : 2

2011-12-15 Thread Aussie Guy E-Cat
Apparently you don't understand LCOE (Levelized Cost Of Energy)? May I suggest you do some googling. ALL of the ways we generate energy have an infinite COP if you take away the energy content of the fuel that you need to supply to the generator. With some generators such as wind, solar,

Re: [Vo]:eCat Electric COP : 2

2011-12-15 Thread Stephen A. Lawrence
On 11-12-15 06:19 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: I don't understand any of that in the slightest. The device as it is supposed to be would immediately and without any changes be an excellent heat source. ... But this is very silly conjecture. If the device worked, which is very doubtful at this

Re: [Vo]:E-cat article by Haiko Leitz

2011-12-15 Thread Robert Lynn
On 15 December 2011 15:21, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: 1. Stored energy can only cause the temperature to decline monotonically, very rapidly at first (Newton's law of cooling). Yet this heat increased during the event. It is easy to create a system in which heat transfer is

Re: [Vo]:CF as a historical phenomenon

2011-12-15 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Charles Hope lookslikeiwasri...@gmail.comwrote: Are there any examples of pathological science persisting 20 years without being properly debunked? Are there any examples of new science remaining on the fringe for 20 years before being finally accepted into the

[Vo]:Was Technetium ever detected in LENR experiments?

2011-12-15 Thread Daniel Rocha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technetium * Technetium* ([image: play] /http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English t http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Keyɛhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key k

[Vo]:Why big energy wants to kill the LRET

2011-12-15 Thread Aussie Guy E-Cat
Interesting read: http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/why-big-energy-wants-kill-lret Now imagine what would happen with a LENR generator with a LCOE below coal.

Re: [Vo]:CF as a historical phenomenon

2011-12-15 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
There is an example that is interesting. Gravitational wave detection. As a practical field was created more than 40 years ago and no detection has been done yet. The theoretical prediction of gravitational waves by Einstein happened about 90 years ago. He claimed it was an interesting theoretical

Re: [Vo]:CF as a historical phenomenon

2011-12-15 Thread Jouni Valkonen
On 16 December 2011 02:47, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: Contrary to popular argument, science actually celebrates novelty and revolution, and scientists are not afraid of disruptive experiments; they crave them. Fame, glory, funding, and adoration come to those who make

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