Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Roarty, Francis X]

Axil,
 nice citation, the math is beyond my pay grade but I believe 
the gist of the paper is that macro Casimir materials and geometries can now be 
calculated much more easily, and this agrees with what authors of "Advances in 
Casimir Effect" were predicting in 2009 as methods for calculating different 
geometries were still being investigated and simplified... I think it was 
Bordag who commented on it but there were 4 authors and I don't recall for 
certain.
Fran

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 1:39 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1103.0187v3

Casimir effect from macroscopic quantum electrodynamics
Authors: T.G. 
Philbin<http://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Philbin_T/0/1/0/all/0/1>
(Submitted on 1 Mar 2011 (v1<http://arxiv.org/abs/1103.0187v1>), last revised 9 
Jun 2011 (this version, v3))
Abstract: The canonical quantization of macroscopic electromagnetism was 
recently presented in New J. Phys. 12 (2010) 123008. This theory is here used 
to derive the Casimir effect, by considering the special case of thermal and 
zero-point fields. The stress-energy-momentum tensor of the canonical theory 
follows from Noether's theorem, and its electromagnetic part in thermal 
equilibrium gives the Casimir energy density and stress tensor. The results 
hold for arbitrary inhomogeneous magnetodielectrics and are obtained from a 
rigorous quantization of electromagnetism in dispersive, dissipative media. 
Continuing doubts about the status of the standard Lifshitz theory as a proper 
quantum treatment of Casimir forces do not apply to the derivation given here. 
Moreover, the correct expressions for the Casimir energy density and stress 
tensor inside media follow automatically from the simple restriction to thermal 
equilibrium, without the need for complicated thermodynamical or mechanical 
arguments.

On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 9:04 AM, Roarty, Francis X 
mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com>> wrote:
Hi Ed,
I got lost trying to address everything so am just going to 
focus on this paragraph [snip] Just how the field can cause a force is 
difficult to explain. Photons obviously do not work as an explanation. Now you 
suggest that the force is related to gravity and inertia.  This seems to be an 
odd kind of force to invoke. Gravity passes right through ordinary matter yet, 
if it causes the Casimir force, it can apparently transfer momentum when a 
small gap is created. Inertia only occurs when the velocity of mass is changed. 
I see no connection between the behaviors.[/snip]
I feel your pain because the creation of a real photon is one of the 
possibilities that suppression of vacuum wavelengths can lead to as 
demonstrated by recent experiments with SQUIDS cited by Jones.. It can also 
lead to anomalous radioactive decay of gases exposed to the confinement. 
According to "Cavity 
QED"<http://th-www.if.uj.edu.pl/acta/vol27/pdf/v27p2409.pdf> by Zofia 
Bialynicka-Birula it also breaks the isotropy of gravity meaning gas atoms will 
receive the changes in momentum as they pass between regions with different 
gravitational constants  - at the macro scale it would be like force fields we 
could step thru where gravity is different on each side.. the agitation we feel 
stepping between gravity fields is analogues  to DCE or catalytic action. The 
theory that space inside a Casimir cavity modifies gravity was first proposed 
by Di Fiore et all in a 2002 paper "Vacuum fluctuation force on a rigid Casimir 
cavity in a gravitational field<http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0109091>". They 
proposed the possibility of verifying the equivalence principle for the 
zero-point energy of quantum electrodynamics, by evaluating the force, produced 
by vacuum fluctuations, acting on a rigid Casimir cavity in a weak 
gravitational field. Their calculations show a resulting force has opposite 
direction with respect to the gravitational acceleration. They stacked numerous 
cavities in an attempt to modify macro gravity but were unable to prove their 
claims.. My posit of a relativistic interpretation of Casimir force would agree 
that their experiment should have failed because "suppression" only 
"segregates" vacuum pressures and for every concentrated region in a cavity 
there will be an equal and opposite diluted region dispersed over the exterior 
area of the plates to balance out any bias from accumulating. The opportunity 
is there to expose physical matter such as gas atoms to these regions in a 
biased manner to accumulate effects but the cavities themselves will always 
balance out to zero.  My posit is that these vacuum wavelengts are 
electromagnetic but  traveling transverse to our 3D plane and thereby escape 
any Faraday caging, intersecting with all physical matter in our universe as if 
we were an ant farm or thi

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Axil Axil]

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1103.0187v3

Casimir effect from macroscopic quantum electrodynamics
Authors: T.G. 
Philbin<http://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Philbin_T/0/1/0/all/0/1>
(Submitted on 1 Mar 2011 (v1 <http://arxiv.org/abs/1103.0187v1>), last
revised 9 Jun 2011 (this version, v3))

Abstract: The canonical quantization of macroscopic electromagnetism was
recently presented in New J. Phys. 12 (2010) 123008. This theory is here
used to derive the Casimir effect, by considering the special case of
thermal and zero-point fields. The stress-energy-momentum tensor of the
canonical theory follows from Noether's theorem, and its electromagnetic
part in thermal equilibrium gives the Casimir energy density and stress
tensor. The results hold for arbitrary inhomogeneous magnetodielectrics and
are obtained from a rigorous quantization of electromagnetism in
dispersive, dissipative media. Continuing doubts about the status of the
standard Lifshitz theory as a proper quantum treatment of Casimir forces do
not apply to the derivation given here. Moreover, the correct expressions
for the Casimir energy density and stress tensor inside media follow
automatically from the simple restriction to thermal equilibrium, without
the need for complicated thermodynamical or mechanical arguments.



On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 9:04 AM, Roarty, Francis X <
francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote:

>  Hi Ed,
>
> I got lost trying to address everything so am just going
> to focus on this paragraph [snip] Just how the field can cause a force is
> difficult to explain. Photons obviously do not work as an explanation. Now
> you suggest that the force is related to gravity and inertia.  This seems
> to be an odd kind of force to invoke. Gravity passes right through ordinary
> matter yet, if it causes the Casimir force, it can apparently transfer
> momentum when a small gap is created. Inertia only occurs when the velocity
> of mass is changed. I see no connection between the behaviors.[/snip]
>
> I feel your pain because the creation of a real photon is one of the
> possibilities that suppression of vacuum wavelengths can lead to as
> demonstrated by recent experiments with SQUIDS cited by Jones.. It can also
> lead to anomalous radioactive decay of gases exposed to the confinement.
> According to “Cavity 
> QED”<http://th-www.if.uj.edu.pl/acta/vol27/pdf/v27p2409.pdf>by Zofia 
> Bialynicka-Birula it also breaks the isotropy of gravity meaning
> gas atoms will receive the changes in momentum as they pass between regions
> with different gravitational constants  - at the macro scale it would be
> like force fields we could step thru where gravity is different on each
> side.. the agitation we feel stepping between gravity fields is analogues
>  to DCE or catalytic action. The theory that space inside a Casimir cavity
> modifies gravity was first proposed by Di Fiore et all in a 2002 paper “Vacuum
> fluctuation force on a rigid Casimir cavity in a gravitational 
> field<http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0109091>“.
> They proposed the possibility of verifying the equivalence principle for
> the zero-point energy of quantum electrodynamics, by evaluating the force,
> produced by vacuum fluctuations, acting on a rigid Casimir cavity in a weak
> gravitational field. Their calculations show a resulting force has opposite
> direction with respect to the gravitational acceleration. They stacked
> numerous cavities in an attempt to modify macro gravity but were unable to
> prove their claims.. My posit of a relativistic interpretation of Casimir
> force would agree that their experiment should have failed because
> “suppression” only “segregates” vacuum pressures and for every concentrated
> region in a cavity there will be an equal and opposite diluted region
> dispersed over the exterior area of the plates to balance out any bias from
> accumulating. The opportunity is there to expose physical matter such as
> gas atoms to these regions in a biased manner to accumulate effects but the
> cavities themselves will always balance out to zero.  My posit is that
> these vacuum wavelengts are electromagnetic but  traveling transverse to
> our 3D plane and thereby escape any Faraday caging, intersecting with all
> physical matter in our universe as if we were an ant farm or thin ribbon.
> When a 3d cavity is suppressed to near 2d these wavelengths can somewhat
> modify their angle of incidence to this “ribbon” in the same manner as an
> object with a velocity approaching C changes it’s angle of incidence in a
> Pythagorean relationship to C.
>
> All the clues say these are relativistic effects but we are reluctant to
> embrace all that implies…
>
> Regards
>
> Fran  
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Edmund Storms [ma

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Roarty, Francis X]

Hi Ed,
I got lost trying to address everything so am just going to 
focus on this paragraph [snip] Just how the field can cause a force is 
difficult to explain. Photons obviously do not work as an explanation. Now you 
suggest that the force is related to gravity and inertia.  This seems to be an 
odd kind of force to invoke. Gravity passes right through ordinary matter yet, 
if it causes the Casimir force, it can apparently transfer momentum when a 
small gap is created. Inertia only occurs when the velocity of mass is changed. 
I see no connection between the behaviors.[/snip]
I feel your pain because the creation of a real photon is one of the 
possibilities that suppression of vacuum wavelengths can lead to as 
demonstrated by recent experiments with SQUIDS cited by Jones.. It can also 
lead to anomalous radioactive decay of gases exposed to the confinement. 
According to "Cavity 
QED"<http://th-www.if.uj.edu.pl/acta/vol27/pdf/v27p2409.pdf> by Zofia 
Bialynicka-Birula it also breaks the isotropy of gravity meaning gas atoms will 
receive the changes in momentum as they pass between regions with different 
gravitational constants  - at the macro scale it would be like force fields we 
could step thru where gravity is different on each side.. the agitation we feel 
stepping between gravity fields is analogues  to DCE or catalytic action. The 
theory that space inside a Casimir cavity modifies gravity was first proposed 
by Di Fiore et all in a 2002 paper "Vacuum fluctuation force on a rigid Casimir 
cavity in a gravitational field<http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0109091>". They 
proposed the possibility of verifying the equivalence principle for the 
zero-point energy of quantum electrodynamics, by evaluating the force, produced 
by vacuum fluctuations, acting on a rigid Casimir cavity in a weak 
gravitational field. Their calculations show a resulting force has opposite 
direction with respect to the gravitational acceleration. They stacked numerous 
cavities in an attempt to modify macro gravity but were unable to prove their 
claims.. My posit of a relativistic interpretation of Casimir force would agree 
that their experiment should have failed because "suppression" only 
"segregates" vacuum pressures and for every concentrated region in a cavity 
there will be an equal and opposite diluted region dispersed over the exterior 
area of the plates to balance out any bias from accumulating. The opportunity 
is there to expose physical matter such as gas atoms to these regions in a 
biased manner to accumulate effects but the cavities themselves will always 
balance out to zero.  My posit is that these vacuum wavelengts are 
electromagnetic but  traveling transverse to our 3D plane and thereby escape 
any Faraday caging, intersecting with all physical matter in our universe as if 
we were an ant farm or thin ribbon. When a 3d cavity is suppressed to near 2d 
these wavelengths can somewhat modify their angle of incidence to this "ribbon" 
in the same manner as an object with a velocity approaching C changes it's 
angle of incidence in a Pythagorean relationship to C.
All the clues say these are relativistic effects but we are reluctant to 
embrace all that implies...
Regards
Fran


From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:38 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Fran, I combined your two responses.

As I understand, an attraction is measured between two materials, which is 
sensitive to the kind of material and the distance between them. That is the 
only observation on which this complex theory is based.  Chemical attraction is 
known to occur, but assumptions are made about how to subtract this force.

People assume that corrections have been properly made for the chemical force.  
If no other explanation had been suggested, all of the force would have been 
attributed to chemical attraction. But, people want to assume that something 
exists in vacuum space that can be detected. So they assume some of this force 
is caused by this proposed energy field.

Just how the field can cause a force is difficult to explain. Photons obviously 
do not work as an explanation. Now you suggest that the force is related to 
gravity and inertia.  This seems to be an odd kind of force to invoke. Gravity 
passes right through ordinary matter yet, if it causes the Casimir force, it 
can apparently transfer momentum when a small gap is created. Inertia only 
occurs when the velocity of mass is changed. I see no connection between the 
behaviors.

If the gap has a critical size, quantum interference is proposed to stop a flux 
of something, thereby creating an unbalanced force. But, the field does not 
interact with ordinary material, so how does the force become unbalanced such 
that it will interact with the atoms in the material?  In additio

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Edmund Storms]

Fran, I combined your two responses.

As I understand, an attraction is measured between two materials,  
which is sensitive to the kind of material and the distance between  
them. That is the only observation on which this complex theory is  
based.  Chemical attraction is known to occur, but assumptions are  
made about how to subtract this force.


People assume that corrections have been properly made for the  
chemical force.  If no other explanation had been suggested, all of  
the force would have been attributed to chemical attraction. But,  
people want to assume that something exists in vacuum space that can  
be detected. So they assume some of this force is caused by this  
proposed energy field.


Just how the field can cause a force is difficult to explain. Photons  
obviously do not work as an explanation. Now you suggest that the  
force is related to gravity and inertia.  This seems to be an odd kind  
of force to invoke. Gravity passes right through ordinary matter yet,  
if it causes the Casimir force, it can apparently transfer momentum  
when a small gap is created. Inertia only occurs when the velocity of  
mass is changed. I see no connection between the behaviors.


If the gap has a critical size, quantum interference is proposed to  
stop a flux of something, thereby creating an unbalanced force. But,  
the field does not interact with ordinary material, so how does the  
force become unbalanced such that it will interact with the atoms in  
the material?  In addition, if a flux of something is stopped, where  
does its energy go? If something is moving such that it can cause  
something else to move (create a force), then energy is involved in  
the process. This is a basic condition. When that motion is stopped,  
the energy must be converted to a different form. Something else must  
move, thereby creating heat, which is caused by random motion of  
atoms.  Hand-waving using the idea of quantum effects that are  
invisible and impossible for people to imagine seems like a copout to  
me.  Whatever happens at the quantum level and whatever its cause, the  
result later enters our non-quantum reality and has to be consistent  
with the laws we know operate in the normal reality. Conservation of  
energy is one of these basic laws. If energy exists in the vacuum and  
if this energy can be experienced in our reality, than the process  
must be consistent with the Law of Conservation of Energy. The energy  
lost by the source, i.e. vacuum, must be equal to the energy acquired  
by the material being studied.  So, a description of the Casimir  
effect must show exactly how this energy transfer occurs. Instead, the  
description seems to ramble, use obscure concepts, and gives no  
insight. This is worse than the descriptions of cold fusion. :-)


 Fran, no gas atoms are present, as you incorrectly describe below.  
The Casimir effect is caused in vacuum.  Consequently, I have no idea  
what you are talking about and what rectifying energy means.  You are  
wandering off into totally confusing ideas and descriptions. You  
introduce behavior into the discussion that has no relationship to  
observation and is real only in your imagination, yet you state it as  
fact. Consequently, I have no idea how to respond.


Ed



On May 19, 2013, at 7:51 PM, francis wrote:


Ed,
   I have been without pc all weekend but see that Mark  
and Jones made a far better response than I could have managed,  
someone made reference to the Haisch Rhueda paper on inertia which  
bears heavily on your questions about if this is normal  photon  
radiation … if they are correct than it is not photon radiation. We  
are talking about the same waveforms that are responsible for  
gravity and inertia and this is why there is no Farady shielding,  
everything is permeated at 90 degrees to the physical plane, these  
waveforms approach and depart from a nonphysical dimension like time  
winking into and out of existence only as they cross through the   
Present.   I suspect that HUP or jitter is just these virtual  
particles growing into then contracting out of our 3d ant farm plane  
and the random displacement of all physical matter from within the  
tiniest subatomic particles on up in response to these inter  
dimensional interlopers.  According to Puthoff these virtual  
particles create a pressure that is responsible for the ground state  
of everything from quarks up to and beyond the periodic table, they  
form a sea or river, a medium that he believes can be engineered  
using Casimir geometry with other techniques to concentrate and  
extend this natural phenomenon we see commonly all around us in the  
form of colloids like mayonnaise or the stiction we see making it  
difficult to sort nanotubes.   My posit is that we are causing  
breaks in micro gravity..  cavity QED says the isotropy can be  
broken at this geometry where the inverse of Casimir boundary  
spacing cubed can trump the n

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Roarty, Francis X]

On Fri May 17 Ed Storms said [snip] Your description proposes that a certain 
size  
gap blocks a fraction of the radiation coming from a particular  
direction.  In other words, the photons are stopped in the gap and  
their energy heats the walls of the gap.  The other photons pass right  
through the material without interacting or producing a force.[/snip]

Hi Ed, 
There is no heat generated by an empty cavity, it is only when gas atoms 
passing through this cavity environment react with the quantum effect of the 
walls and each other that anomalous energy is released. When Jones cited the 
importance of DCE it also underlined the importance for changes in casimir 
force to result in any net energy capture... Many people, myself included, are 
convinced that this translation between different geometries must be 
accomplished in an asymmetrical manner to rectify any energy..if atoms come in, 
translate to different geometries and then exit the NAE without any 
interactions / reactions there will be no energy release. In the MACRO world it 
would be silly to construct a device that performs half a cycle at no gravity 
and then lands on a planet to perform the other half cycle because you are 
doing the work with your ships propulsion system. OTOH in the NANO world we are 
suggesting a way to exploit HUP/gas motion to perform equivalent propulsion 
while exploiting gravity warps created by quantum effects /geometry. We don't 
have to wait for the slow square law of a gravity well to accomplish chain 
because this geometry trumps the square law and creates breaches in the 
isotropy that equate to sudden jumps in a particles position within the gravity 
well..or actually the gravity hill in this case as we outside the cavity 
represent the bottom of a well even if we were free floating in space. 
Supression allows us to warp space time negative relative to zero gravity. My 
point being we can create or self assemble a bulk powder device with conditions 
like my silly analogy of half cycles using a spaceship without supplying any 
propulsion energy..the reacting gas atoms only have to move between different 
breaks in the isotropy and that motion is supplied for free by HUP.
Fran



-Original Message-
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 2:56 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more  
questions. I'm sure all of these issues have been addressed.

I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher  
frequency than is normally encountered.  When such radiation passes  
through a material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in  
the material, or it passes through without any change in energy or any  
effect on the material.  Your description proposes that a certain size  
gap blocks a fraction of the radiation coming from a particular  
direction.  In other words, the photons are stopped in the gap and  
their energy heats the walls of the gap.  The other photons pass right  
through the material without interacting or producing a force.

  What produces the force?  The photons that are captured by the gap  
pass through the material without interacting until they reach the  
gap. Only at the gap is their presence felt by the material, but in  
the form of heat energy.  For a force to be felt by the material, the  
photons must interact and transfer momentum.  Does this mean all  
vacuum photons change direction when passing through a material and  
the gap simply removes a momentum vector such that a net force remains  
perpendicular to the gap?

If this is the explanation, we have still another assumption - a  
photon can bounce off an atom without changing its energy (frequency)  
and in the process transfer momentum to the atom while the photon goes  
in a different direction.  Normally, a photon interacts with an  
electron, sending it in a different direction but at the same time  
ionizing the atom to which the electron was attached. Why does this  
process not occur when the vacuum photons interact with matter?

Ed Storms


On May 17, 2013, at 11:22 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

> Ed:
> Two things...
>
> 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir
> effect... (sorry Fran).
> Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range  
> of
> frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably  
> approaching the
> Plank frequency).  Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will  
> ONLY
> exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the  
> plates.  This
> is what creates the unbalanced forces which want to push the plates
> together.  All vacuum frequencies are pushing on the outside  
> surfaces of the
> plates, but a limited range of frequencies are between the plates,  
> s

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[francis]

Ed,

   I have been without pc all weekend but see that Mark and
Jones made a far better response than I could have managed, someone made
reference to the Haisch Rhueda paper on inertia which bears heavily on your
questions about if this is normal  photon radiation . if they are correct
than it is not photon radiation. We are talking about the same waveforms
that are responsible for gravity and inertia and this is why there is no
Farady shielding, everything is permeated at 90 degrees to the physical
plane, these waveforms approach and depart from a nonphysical dimension like
time winking into and out of existence only as they cross through the
Present.   I suspect that HUP or jitter is just these virtual particles
growing into then contracting out of our 3d ant farm plane and the random
displacement of all physical matter from within the tiniest subatomic
particles on up in response to these inter dimensional interlopers.
According to Puthoff these virtual particles create a pressure that is
responsible for the ground state of everything from quarks up to and beyond
the periodic table, they form a sea or river, a medium that he believes can
be engineered using Casimir geometry with other techniques to concentrate
and extend this natural phenomenon we see commonly all around us in the form
of colloids like mayonnaise or the stiction we see making it difficult to
sort nanotubes.   My posit is that we are causing breaks in micro gravity..
cavity QED says the isotropy can be broken at this geometry where the
inverse of Casimir boundary spacing cubed can trump the normal square law we
experience as denizens of a gravity well in the macro world. When Jones
mentioned dynamic Casimir effect in regards to recent evidence using
transistor like device called SQUIDS they are effectively moving one of the
Casimir boundaries  at luminal velocities. In these metal powders or
skeletal cats the conjecture is that there are boundaries everywhere and of
different sizes, a tapestry of different suppression values that the gas
atoms are migrating through with the help of the "normally" unusable energy
called gas motion..  

 

Fran

 

Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions. I'm
sure all of these issues have been addressed. 

 

I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher frequency
than is normally encountered. When such radiation passes through a material,
the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material, or it
passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the material.
Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a fraction of the
radiation coming from a particular direction. In other words, the photons
are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls of the gap. The
other photons pass right through the material without interacting or
producing a force. 

 

What produces the force? The photons that are captured by the gap pass
through the material without interacting until they reach the gap. Only at
the gap is their presence felt by the material, but in the form of
 heat
energy. For a force to be felt by the material, the photons must interact
and transfer momentum. Does this mean all vacuum photons change direction
when passing through a material and the gap simply removes a momentum vector
such that a net force remains perpendicular to the gap? 

 

If this is the explanation, we have still another assumption - a photon can
bounce off an atom without changing its energy (frequency) and in the
process transfer momentum to the atom while the photon goes in a different
direction. Normally, a photon interacts with an electron, sending it in a
different direction but at the same time ionizing the atom to which the
electron was attached. Why does this process not occur when the vacuum
photons interact with matter? 

 

Ed Storms

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Jack Cole]

Very good.  Thanks Ed for the insight.


On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Edmund Storms wrote:

> Jack, you would have more success and not waste your time if you applied
> some basic chemistry.  More hydrogen does not result in more loading. Only
> the pressure and temperature determine the amount of loading. In addition,
> Constantan does not dissolve much H in any case.  Addition of aluminum will
> do nothing to the Constantan.  Cold fusion may be hard to understand but it
> does not mean the laws of chemistry have creased to function.
>
> Ed Storms
>
> On May 18, 2013, at 4:43 PM, Jack Cole wrote:
>
> As Dr. Storms has already tried NiAl, I'm giving the following a try:
>  Constantan wire with aluminum wire twisted around it in electrolysis with
> KOH.  It appears to be producing hydrogen very vigorously at the cathode.
>  I've also considered wrapping nickel in aluminum foil.  Seems like it
> can't hurt to have more hydrogen available for loading, but I don't know
> that this will be advantageous compared with a gas-loaded cell.
>
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 6:55 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:
>
>> Agreed, and it *is* only a matter of time...
>> but can they please hurry up since I want to see it happen!
>> -m
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
>> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 4:13 PM
>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>> Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> A force is provocative -- but a dynamic effect is what we want to see for
>> "free" energy.
>>
>> Recently, the DCE or dynamical Casimir effect has been shown to be real
>>
>>
>> http://phys.org/news/2013-03-nihilo-dynamical-casimir-effect-metamaterial.ht
>> ml
>>
>> Is it only a matter of time... ?
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: MarkI-ZeroPoint
>>
>> Let's put some numbers to it...
>>
>> From Dr. Milonni's YouTube presentation:
>>
>> F = ((pi^2)*hbar*c) / (240d^4)  (force per unit area, Casimir original
>> derivation in 1948)
>>
>> F = 0.013 dyne for 1cm square plates separated by 1um.
>> Which is comparable to the Coulomb force on the electron in the H atom.
>>
>> -mark
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net]
>> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:12 PM
>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>> Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
>>
>> Hi Ed,
>>
>> I want to extend a sincere thank you for engaging the inquisitive minds
>> here
>> and helping to focus some of the discussions.  I have been too busy to
>> participate in what have been some very good exchanges, and fortunately
>> too
>> busy so as to avoid others!  ;-)  Most of the regular-posting Vorts are
>> open-minded, but not without a healthy level of skepticism.  We also are
>> not
>> concerned about discussing potentially 'career limiting/destroying'
>> topics.
>>
>> I will be starting a new vortex thread and I want to ask (you) some very
>> specific questions about the NAE; please look for it.  Now on to your
>> question...
>>
>> RE: "I assume its "normal" EM radiation?"
>> Not sure... but I don't think 'vacuum quantum fluctuations' are considered
>> normal EM radiation.
>>
>> I think the best (i.e., most accurate) explanation should come from the
>> experts, like Lamoreaux and Peter Milonni (also LANL).  The LANL Directory
>> shows both as Retired Fellows... perhaps one of them is still in the area,
>> and you could meet up for lunch to discuss in more detail?
>>
>> Here's a youtube presentation by Dr. Milonni, and a few papers if you
>> want a
>> more accurate explanation:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12yjbyunRdM
>> "Casimir Effects: Peter Milonni's lecture at the Institute for Quantum
>> Computing"
>>
>> http://cnls.lanl.gov/casimir/PresentationsSF/Force_Control-talk.pdf
>> "Precise Measurements of the Casimir Force: Experimental Details"
>> (Presentation format so has excellent graphics)
>>
>> http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dalvit/Talks_files/Piriapolis_09.pdf
>> "Towards Casimir force repulsion with metamaterials"
>> (Presentation format so has excellent graphics)
>>
>> http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dcr/CasimirDrag_ContPhys.pdf
>> "... research suggesting that scattering quantum fluctuations might cause
>> drag in a superfluid moving at any speed."
>

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Edmund Storms]

Jack, you would have more success and not waste your time if you  
applied some basic chemistry.  More hydrogen does not result in more  
loading. Only the pressure and temperature determine the amount of  
loading. In addition, Constantan does not dissolve much H in any  
case.  Addition of aluminum will do nothing to the Constantan.  Cold  
fusion may be hard to understand but it does not mean the laws of  
chemistry have creased to function.


Ed Storms
On May 18, 2013, at 4:43 PM, Jack Cole wrote:

As Dr. Storms has already tried NiAl, I'm giving the following a  
try:  Constantan wire with aluminum wire twisted around it in  
electrolysis with KOH.  It appears to be producing hydrogen very  
vigorously at the cathode.  I've also considered wrapping nickel in  
aluminum foil.  Seems like it can't hurt to have more hydrogen  
available for loading, but I don't know that this will be  
advantageous compared with a gas-loaded cell.



On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 6:55 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint > wrote:

Agreed, and it *is* only a matter of time...
but can they please hurry up since I want to see it happen!
-m

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 4:13 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Mark,

A force is provocative -- but a dynamic effect is what we want to  
see for

"free" energy.

Recently, the DCE or dynamical Casimir effect has been shown to be  
real


http://phys.org/news/2013-03-nihilo-dynamical-casimir-effect-metamaterial.ht
ml

Is it only a matter of time... ?



-Original Message-
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint

Let's put some numbers to it...

From Dr. Milonni's YouTube presentation:

F = ((pi^2)*hbar*c) / (240d^4)  (force per unit area, Casimir original
derivation in 1948)

F = 0.013 dyne for 1cm square plates separated by 1um.
Which is comparable to the Coulomb force on the electron in the H  
atom.


-mark

-Original Message-
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net]
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:12 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Hi Ed,

I want to extend a sincere thank you for engaging the inquisitive  
minds here

and helping to focus some of the discussions.  I have been too busy to
participate in what have been some very good exchanges, and  
fortunately too
busy so as to avoid others!  ;-)  Most of the regular-posting Vorts  
are
open-minded, but not without a healthy level of skepticism.  We also  
are not
concerned about discussing potentially 'career limiting/destroying'  
topics.


I will be starting a new vortex thread and I want to ask (you) some  
very

specific questions about the NAE; please look for it.  Now on to your
question...

RE: "I assume its "normal" EM radiation?"
Not sure... but I don't think 'vacuum quantum fluctuations' are  
considered

normal EM radiation.

I think the best (i.e., most accurate) explanation should come from  
the
experts, like Lamoreaux and Peter Milonni (also LANL).  The LANL  
Directory
shows both as Retired Fellows... perhaps one of them is still in the  
area,

and you could meet up for lunch to discuss in more detail?

Here's a youtube presentation by Dr. Milonni, and a few papers if  
you want a

more accurate explanation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12yjbyunRdM
"Casimir Effects: Peter Milonni's lecture at the Institute for Quantum
Computing"

http://cnls.lanl.gov/casimir/PresentationsSF/Force_Control-talk.pdf
"Precise Measurements of the Casimir Force: Experimental Details"
(Presentation format so has excellent graphics)

http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dalvit/Talks_files/Piriapolis_09.pdf
"Towards Casimir force repulsion with metamaterials"
(Presentation format so has excellent graphics)

http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dcr/CasimirDrag_ContPhys.pdf
"... research suggesting that scattering quantum fluctuations might  
cause

drag in a superfluid moving at any speed."


-Mark Iverson

-Original Message-
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:56 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more  
questions. I'm

sure all of these issues have been addressed.

I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher  
frequency

than is normally encountered.  When such radiation passes through a
material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the  
material,

or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the
material.  Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a
fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction.  In  
other
words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the  
walls

of the gap.  The other photons pass right through the mater

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Harry Veeder]

Thanks for the reference, but I meant the sort of drag one experiences
when moving through a fluid at a constant velocity.
I found this link which gives a qualitative account of their theory of mass
http://www.calphysics.org/haisch/sciences.html
and they say because the Zero Point Field (ZPF) is Lorentz invariant it
does not create a drag at constant velocity.
Instead they say acceleration of charged matter through the ZPF creates a
kind of counterforce which we interpret as inertia.

All the efforts to explain the origin of inertia as an effect of some other
force or energy field look for theoretical justification to question the
validity
of the law of inertia. However, if we let experience be our guide we don't
need theoretical justification to question the law. For example, the law is
not respected
by the motion of a thrown pebble. The pebble demonstrates a capacity
for acceleration. Of course, the modern convention is to imagine the Earth
exerting a force because it is assumed a priori that the apple is
continuously obeying the law even while it is in free fall. ( General
relativity retains the doctrine of the continuity of natural law but
"bends" the law in order to account for the acceleration). Instead the
Earth can be viewed as providing a stimulus for the apple's acceleration
and the law of inertia comes into effect again when the apple hits the
ground.

Harry


On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 5:20 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

> Yes, it’s called inertia…
>
> Bernie Haisch and Alfonso Rueda derived it (F=ma), and published it in
> Physical Revue A in 1994.
>
> -mark
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Harry Veeder [mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2013 11:44 AM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
>
> ** **
>
> Assuming the casimir force  is the best explanation of the observed force
> on the plates, wouldn't the vacuum energy produce a drag on all moving
> bodies? 
>
>  
>
> Harry
>
> ** **
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 1:22 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint 
> wrote:
>
> Ed:
> Two things...
>
> 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir
> effect... (sorry Fran).
> Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range of
> frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably approaching
> the
> Plank frequency).  Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY
> exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates.
>  This
> is what creates the unbalanced forces which want to push the plates
> together.  All vacuum frequencies are pushing on the outside surfaces of
> the
> plates, but a limited range of frequencies are between the plates, so
> forces
> pushing plates apart is less than outside forces pushing plates together.
> This effect only becomes significant for very small plate separation.
>
> 2. Empirical evidence for the Casimir effect is now fairly well
> established,
> and has been tested by several groups, including Steve Lamoreaux from your
> old stomping ground of Los Alamos.  It has also become a practical issue
> now
> that nanotechnology has reached the commercialization stage. The following
> is from the Wikipedia article:
> -
> One of the first experimental tests was conducted by Marcus Sparnaay at
> Philips in Eindhoven, in 1958, in a delicate and difficult experiment with
> parallel plates, obtaining results not in contradiction with the Casimir
> theory,[22][23] but with large experimental errors. Some of the
> experimental
> details as well as some background information on how Casimir, Polder and
> Sparnaay arrived at this point[24] are highlighted in a 2007 interview with
> Marcus Sparnaay.
>
> The Casimir effect was measured more accurately in 1997 by Steve K.
> Lamoreaux of Los Alamos National Laboratory,[25] and by Umar Mohideen and
> Anushree Roy of the University of California at Riverside.[26] In practice,
> rather than using two parallel plates, which would require phenomenally
> accurate alignment to ensure they were parallel, the experiments use one
> plate that is flat and another plate that is a part of a sphere with a
> large
> radius.
>
> In 2001, a group (Giacomo Bressi, Gianni Carugno, Roberto Onofrio and
> Giuseppe Ruoso) at the University of Padua (Italy) finally succeeded in
> measuring the Casimir force between parallel plates using
> microresonators.[27]
> ---
>
> -Mark
>

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Jack Cole]

As Dr. Storms has already tried NiAl, I'm giving the following a try:
 Constantan wire with aluminum wire twisted around it in electrolysis with
KOH.  It appears to be producing hydrogen very vigorously at the cathode.
 I've also considered wrapping nickel in aluminum foil.  Seems like it
can't hurt to have more hydrogen available for loading, but I don't know
that this will be advantageous compared with a gas-loaded cell.


On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 6:55 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

> Agreed, and it *is* only a matter of time...
> but can they please hurry up since I want to see it happen!
> -m
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 4:13 PM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
>
> Mark,
>
> A force is provocative -- but a dynamic effect is what we want to see for
> "free" energy.
>
> Recently, the DCE or dynamical Casimir effect has been shown to be real
>
>
> http://phys.org/news/2013-03-nihilo-dynamical-casimir-effect-metamaterial.ht
> ml
>
> Is it only a matter of time... ?
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: MarkI-ZeroPoint
>
> Let's put some numbers to it...
>
> From Dr. Milonni's YouTube presentation:
>
> F = ((pi^2)*hbar*c) / (240d^4)  (force per unit area, Casimir original
> derivation in 1948)
>
> F = 0.013 dyne for 1cm square plates separated by 1um.
> Which is comparable to the Coulomb force on the electron in the H atom.
>
> -mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net]
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:12 PM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
>
> Hi Ed,
>
> I want to extend a sincere thank you for engaging the inquisitive minds
> here
> and helping to focus some of the discussions.  I have been too busy to
> participate in what have been some very good exchanges, and fortunately too
> busy so as to avoid others!  ;-)  Most of the regular-posting Vorts are
> open-minded, but not without a healthy level of skepticism.  We also are
> not
> concerned about discussing potentially 'career limiting/destroying' topics.
>
> I will be starting a new vortex thread and I want to ask (you) some very
> specific questions about the NAE; please look for it.  Now on to your
> question...
>
> RE: "I assume its "normal" EM radiation?"
> Not sure... but I don't think 'vacuum quantum fluctuations' are considered
> normal EM radiation.
>
> I think the best (i.e., most accurate) explanation should come from the
> experts, like Lamoreaux and Peter Milonni (also LANL).  The LANL Directory
> shows both as Retired Fellows... perhaps one of them is still in the area,
> and you could meet up for lunch to discuss in more detail?
>
> Here's a youtube presentation by Dr. Milonni, and a few papers if you want
> a
> more accurate explanation:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12yjbyunRdM
> "Casimir Effects: Peter Milonni's lecture at the Institute for Quantum
> Computing"
>
> http://cnls.lanl.gov/casimir/PresentationsSF/Force_Control-talk.pdf
> "Precise Measurements of the Casimir Force: Experimental Details"
> (Presentation format so has excellent graphics)
>
> http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dalvit/Talks_files/Piriapolis_09.pdf
> "Towards Casimir force repulsion with metamaterials"
> (Presentation format so has excellent graphics)
>
> http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dcr/CasimirDrag_ContPhys.pdf
> "... research suggesting that scattering quantum fluctuations might cause
> drag in a superfluid moving at any speed."
>
>
> -Mark Iverson
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:56 AM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Cc: Edmund Storms
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
>
> Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions.
> I'm
> sure all of these issues have been addressed.
>
> I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher
> frequency
> than is normally encountered.  When such radiation passes through a
> material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material,
> or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the
> material.  Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a
> fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction.  In other
> words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls
> of the gap.  The other photons pass right through the material without
> interacting or producing a fo

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Eric Walker]

On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 4:55 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

Agreed, and it *is* only a matter of time...
> but can they please hurry up since I want to see it happen!
> -m
>

I would be worried that the energy density of any system that is worked out
would be low, since we're talking about the ground state.

Eric

RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

Agreed, and it *is* only a matter of time... 
but can they please hurry up since I want to see it happen!
-m

-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 4:13 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Mark,

A force is provocative -- but a dynamic effect is what we want to see for
"free" energy.

Recently, the DCE or dynamical Casimir effect has been shown to be real

http://phys.org/news/2013-03-nihilo-dynamical-casimir-effect-metamaterial.ht
ml

Is it only a matter of time... ?



-Original Message-
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint 

Let's put some numbers to it...

>From Dr. Milonni's YouTube presentation:

F = ((pi^2)*hbar*c) / (240d^4)  (force per unit area, Casimir original
derivation in 1948) 

F = 0.013 dyne for 1cm square plates separated by 1um.
Which is comparable to the Coulomb force on the electron in the H atom.

-mark

-Original Message-
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net]
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:12 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Hi Ed,

I want to extend a sincere thank you for engaging the inquisitive minds here
and helping to focus some of the discussions.  I have been too busy to
participate in what have been some very good exchanges, and fortunately too
busy so as to avoid others!  ;-)  Most of the regular-posting Vorts are
open-minded, but not without a healthy level of skepticism.  We also are not
concerned about discussing potentially 'career limiting/destroying' topics.

I will be starting a new vortex thread and I want to ask (you) some very
specific questions about the NAE; please look for it.  Now on to your
question...

RE: "I assume its "normal" EM radiation?"
Not sure... but I don't think 'vacuum quantum fluctuations' are considered
normal EM radiation.
  
I think the best (i.e., most accurate) explanation should come from the
experts, like Lamoreaux and Peter Milonni (also LANL).  The LANL Directory
shows both as Retired Fellows... perhaps one of them is still in the area,
and you could meet up for lunch to discuss in more detail?

Here's a youtube presentation by Dr. Milonni, and a few papers if you want a
more accurate explanation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12yjbyunRdM
"Casimir Effects: Peter Milonni's lecture at the Institute for Quantum
Computing"

http://cnls.lanl.gov/casimir/PresentationsSF/Force_Control-talk.pdf
"Precise Measurements of the Casimir Force: Experimental Details"
(Presentation format so has excellent graphics)

http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dalvit/Talks_files/Piriapolis_09.pdf
"Towards Casimir force repulsion with metamaterials"   
(Presentation format so has excellent graphics)

http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dcr/CasimirDrag_ContPhys.pdf
"... research suggesting that scattering quantum fluctuations might cause
drag in a superfluid moving at any speed."


-Mark Iverson

-Original Message-
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:56 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions. I'm
sure all of these issues have been addressed.

I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher frequency
than is normally encountered.  When such radiation passes through a
material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material,
or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the
material.  Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a
fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction.  In other
words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls
of the gap.  The other photons pass right through the material without
interacting or producing a force.

  What produces the force?  The photons that are captured by the gap pass
through the material without interacting until they reach the gap. Only at
the gap is their presence felt by the material, but in the form of heat
energy.  For a force to be felt by the material, the photons must interact
and transfer momentum.  Does this mean all vacuum photons change direction
when passing through a material and the gap simply removes a momentum vector
such that a net force remains perpendicular to the gap?

If this is the explanation, we have still another assumption - a photon can
bounce off an atom without changing its energy (frequency) and in the
process transfer momentum to the atom while the photon goes in a different
direction.  Normally, a photon interacts with an electron, sending it in a
different direction but at the same time ionizing the atom to which the
electron was attached. Why does this process not occur when the vacuum
photons interact with matter?

Ed Storms


On May 17, 2013, at 11:22 AM, MarkI

RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Jones Beene]

Mark,

A force is provocative -- but a dynamic effect is what we want to see for
"free" energy.

Recently, the DCE or dynamical Casimir effect has been shown to be real

http://phys.org/news/2013-03-nihilo-dynamical-casimir-effect-metamaterial.ht
ml

Is it only a matter of time... ?



-Original Message-
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint 

Let's put some numbers to it...

>From Dr. Milonni's YouTube presentation:

F = ((pi^2)*hbar*c) / (240d^4)  (force per unit area, Casimir original
derivation in 1948) 

F = 0.013 dyne for 1cm square plates separated by 1um.
Which is comparable to the Coulomb force on the electron in the H atom.

-mark

-Original Message-
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] 
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:12 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Hi Ed,

I want to extend a sincere thank you for engaging the inquisitive minds here
and helping to focus some of the discussions.  I have been too busy to
participate in what have been some very good exchanges, and fortunately too
busy so as to avoid others!  ;-)  Most of the regular-posting Vorts are
open-minded, but not without a healthy level of skepticism.  We also are not
concerned about discussing potentially 'career limiting/destroying' topics.

I will be starting a new vortex thread and I want to ask (you) some very
specific questions about the NAE; please look for it.  Now on to your
question...

RE: "I assume its "normal" EM radiation?"
Not sure... but I don't think 'vacuum quantum fluctuations' are considered
normal EM radiation.
  
I think the best (i.e., most accurate) explanation should come from the
experts, like Lamoreaux and Peter Milonni (also LANL).  The LANL Directory
shows both as Retired Fellows... perhaps one of them is still in the area,
and you could meet up for lunch to discuss in more detail?

Here's a youtube presentation by Dr. Milonni, and a few papers if you want a
more accurate explanation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12yjbyunRdM
"Casimir Effects: Peter Milonni's lecture at the Institute for Quantum
Computing"

http://cnls.lanl.gov/casimir/PresentationsSF/Force_Control-talk.pdf
"Precise Measurements of the Casimir Force: Experimental Details"
(Presentation format so has excellent graphics)

http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dalvit/Talks_files/Piriapolis_09.pdf
"Towards Casimir force repulsion with metamaterials"   
(Presentation format so has excellent graphics)

http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dcr/CasimirDrag_ContPhys.pdf
"... research suggesting that scattering quantum fluctuations might cause
drag in a superfluid moving at any speed."


-Mark Iverson

-Original Message-
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:56 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions. I'm
sure all of these issues have been addressed.

I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher frequency
than is normally encountered.  When such radiation passes through a
material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material,
or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the
material.  Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a
fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction.  In other
words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls
of the gap.  The other photons pass right through the material without
interacting or producing a force.

  What produces the force?  The photons that are captured by the gap pass
through the material without interacting until they reach the gap. Only at
the gap is their presence felt by the material, but in the form of heat
energy.  For a force to be felt by the material, the photons must interact
and transfer momentum.  Does this mean all vacuum photons change direction
when passing through a material and the gap simply removes a momentum vector
such that a net force remains perpendicular to the gap?

If this is the explanation, we have still another assumption - a photon can
bounce off an atom without changing its energy (frequency) and in the
process transfer momentum to the atom while the photon goes in a different
direction.  Normally, a photon interacts with an electron, sending it in a
different direction but at the same time ionizing the atom to which the
electron was attached. Why does this process not occur when the vacuum
photons interact with matter?

Ed Storms


On May 17, 2013, at 11:22 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

> Ed:
> Two things...
>
> 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir 
> effect... (sorry Fran).
> Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range 
> of frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff fr

RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

Let's put some numbers to it...

>From Dr. Milonni's YouTube presentation:

F = ((pi^2)*hbar*c) / (240d^4)  (force per unit area, Casimir original
derivation in 1948) 

F = 0.013 dyne for 1cm square plates separated by 1um.
Which is comparable to the Coulomb force on the electron in the H atom.

-mark

-Original Message-
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] 
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:12 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Hi Ed,

I want to extend a sincere thank you for engaging the inquisitive minds here
and helping to focus some of the discussions.  I have been too busy to
participate in what have been some very good exchanges, and fortunately too
busy so as to avoid others!  ;-)  Most of the regular-posting Vorts are
open-minded, but not without a healthy level of skepticism.  We also are not
concerned about discussing potentially 'career limiting/destroying' topics.

I will be starting a new vortex thread and I want to ask (you) some very
specific questions about the NAE; please look for it.  Now on to your
question...

RE: "I assume its "normal" EM radiation?"
Not sure... but I don't think 'vacuum quantum fluctuations' are considered
normal EM radiation.
  
I think the best (i.e., most accurate) explanation should come from the
experts, like Lamoreaux and Peter Milonni (also LANL).  The LANL Directory
shows both as Retired Fellows... perhaps one of them is still in the area,
and you could meet up for lunch to discuss in more detail?

Here's a youtube presentation by Dr. Milonni, and a few papers if you want a
more accurate explanation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12yjbyunRdM
"Casimir Effects: Peter Milonni's lecture at the Institute for Quantum
Computing"

http://cnls.lanl.gov/casimir/PresentationsSF/Force_Control-talk.pdf
"Precise Measurements of the Casimir Force: Experimental Details"
(Presentation format so has excellent graphics)

http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dalvit/Talks_files/Piriapolis_09.pdf
"Towards Casimir force repulsion with metamaterials"   
(Presentation format so has excellent graphics)

http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dcr/CasimirDrag_ContPhys.pdf
"... research suggesting that scattering quantum fluctuations might cause
drag in a superfluid moving at any speed."


-Mark Iverson

-Original Message-
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:56 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions. I'm
sure all of these issues have been addressed.

I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher frequency
than is normally encountered.  When such radiation passes through a
material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material,
or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the
material.  Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a
fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction.  In other
words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls
of the gap.  The other photons pass right through the material without
interacting or producing a force.

  What produces the force?  The photons that are captured by the gap pass
through the material without interacting until they reach the gap. Only at
the gap is their presence felt by the material, but in the form of heat
energy.  For a force to be felt by the material, the photons must interact
and transfer momentum.  Does this mean all vacuum photons change direction
when passing through a material and the gap simply removes a momentum vector
such that a net force remains perpendicular to the gap?

If this is the explanation, we have still another assumption - a photon can
bounce off an atom without changing its energy (frequency) and in the
process transfer momentum to the atom while the photon goes in a different
direction.  Normally, a photon interacts with an electron, sending it in a
different direction but at the same time ionizing the atom to which the
electron was attached. Why does this process not occur when the vacuum
photons interact with matter?

Ed Storms


On May 17, 2013, at 11:22 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

> Ed:
> Two things...
>
> 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir 
> effect... (sorry Fran).
> Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range 
> of frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably 
> approaching the Plank frequency).  Closely spaced, parallel conducting 
> plates will ONLY exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing 
> between the plates.  This is what creates the unbalanced forces which 
> want to push the plates together.  All vacuum frequencies are pushing 
> on the outside sur

RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

Hi Ed,

I want to extend a sincere thank you for engaging the inquisitive minds here
and helping to focus some of the discussions.  I have been too busy to
participate in what have been some very good exchanges, and fortunately too
busy so as to avoid others!  ;-)  Most of the regular-posting Vorts are
open-minded, but not without a healthy level of skepticism.  We also are not
concerned about discussing potentially 'career limiting/destroying' topics.

I will be starting a new vortex thread and I want to ask (you) some very
specific questions about the NAE; please look for it.  Now on to your
question...

RE: "I assume its "normal" EM radiation?"
Not sure... but I don't think 'vacuum quantum fluctuations' are considered
normal EM radiation.
  
I think the best (i.e., most accurate) explanation should come from the
experts, like Lamoreaux and Peter Milonni (also LANL).  The LANL Directory
shows both as Retired Fellows... perhaps one of them is still in the area,
and you could meet up for lunch to discuss in more detail?

Here's a youtube presentation by Dr. Milonni, and a few papers if you want a
more accurate explanation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12yjbyunRdM
"Casimir Effects: Peter Milonni's lecture at the Institute for Quantum
Computing"

http://cnls.lanl.gov/casimir/PresentationsSF/Force_Control-talk.pdf
"Precise Measurements of the Casimir Force: Experimental Details"
(Presentation format so has excellent graphics)

http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dalvit/Talks_files/Piriapolis_09.pdf
"Towards Casimir force repulsion with metamaterials"   
(Presentation format so has excellent graphics)

http://cnls.lanl.gov/~dcr/CasimirDrag_ContPhys.pdf
"... research suggesting that scattering quantum fluctuations might cause
drag in a superfluid moving at any speed."


-Mark Iverson

-Original Message-
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:56 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more questions. I'm
sure all of these issues have been addressed.

I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher frequency
than is normally encountered.  When such radiation passes through a
material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in the material,
or it passes through without any change in energy or any effect on the
material.  Your description proposes that a certain size gap blocks a
fraction of the radiation coming from a particular direction.  In other
words, the photons are stopped in the gap and their energy heats the walls
of the gap.  The other photons pass right through the material without
interacting or producing a force.

  What produces the force?  The photons that are captured by the gap pass
through the material without interacting until they reach the gap. Only at
the gap is their presence felt by the material, but in the form of heat
energy.  For a force to be felt by the material, the photons must interact
and transfer momentum.  Does this mean all vacuum photons change direction
when passing through a material and the gap simply removes a momentum vector
such that a net force remains perpendicular to the gap?

If this is the explanation, we have still another assumption - a photon can
bounce off an atom without changing its energy (frequency) and in the
process transfer momentum to the atom while the photon goes in a different
direction.  Normally, a photon interacts with an electron, sending it in a
different direction but at the same time ionizing the atom to which the
electron was attached. Why does this process not occur when the vacuum
photons interact with matter?

Ed Storms


On May 17, 2013, at 11:22 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

> Ed:
> Two things...
>
> 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir 
> effect... (sorry Fran).
> Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range 
> of frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably 
> approaching the Plank frequency).  Closely spaced, parallel conducting 
> plates will ONLY exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing 
> between the plates.  This is what creates the unbalanced forces which 
> want to push the plates together.  All vacuum frequencies are pushing 
> on the outside surfaces of the plates, but a limited range of 
> frequencies are between the plates, so forces pushing plates apart is 
> less than outside forces pushing plates together.
> This effect only becomes significant for very small plate separation.
>
> 2. Empirical evidence for the Casimir effect is now fairly well 
> established, and has been tested by several groups, including Steve 
> Lamoreaux from your old stomping ground of Los Alamos.  It has also 
> become a practical is

RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

Yes, it's called inertia.

Bernie Haisch and Alfonso Rueda derived it (F=ma), and published it in
Physical Revue A in 1994.

-mark

 

From: Harry Veeder [mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:44 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

 

Assuming the casimir force  is the best explanation of the observed force on
the plates, wouldn't the vacuum energy produce a drag on all moving bodies? 

 

Harry

 

On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 1:22 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint 
wrote:

Ed:
Two things...

1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir
effect... (sorry Fran).
Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range of
frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably approaching the
Plank frequency).  Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY
exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates.  This
is what creates the unbalanced forces which want to push the plates
together.  All vacuum frequencies are pushing on the outside surfaces of the
plates, but a limited range of frequencies are between the plates, so forces
pushing plates apart is less than outside forces pushing plates together.
This effect only becomes significant for very small plate separation.

2. Empirical evidence for the Casimir effect is now fairly well established,
and has been tested by several groups, including Steve Lamoreaux from your
old stomping ground of Los Alamos.  It has also become a practical issue now
that nanotechnology has reached the commercialization stage. The following
is from the Wikipedia article:
-
One of the first experimental tests was conducted by Marcus Sparnaay at
Philips in Eindhoven, in 1958, in a delicate and difficult experiment with
parallel plates, obtaining results not in contradiction with the Casimir
theory,[22][23] but with large experimental errors. Some of the experimental
details as well as some background information on how Casimir, Polder and
Sparnaay arrived at this point[24] are highlighted in a 2007 interview with
Marcus Sparnaay.

The Casimir effect was measured more accurately in 1997 by Steve K.
Lamoreaux of Los Alamos National Laboratory,[25] and by Umar Mohideen and
Anushree Roy of the University of California at Riverside.[26] In practice,
rather than using two parallel plates, which would require phenomenally
accurate alignment to ensure they were parallel, the experiments use one
plate that is flat and another plate that is a part of a sphere with a large
radius.

In 2001, a group (Giacomo Bressi, Gianni Carugno, Roberto Onofrio and
Giuseppe Ruoso) at the University of Padua (Italy) finally succeeded in
measuring the Casimir force between parallel plates using
microresonators.[27]
---

-Mark

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Edmund Storms]

Thanks Mark, this is making more sense. But I have a few more  
questions. I'm sure all of these issues have been addressed.


I assume the radiation is normal photon radiation, but at a higher  
frequency than is normally encountered.  When such radiation passes  
through a material, the radiation is either absorbed, creating heat in  
the material, or it passes through without any change in energy or any  
effect on the material.  Your description proposes that a certain size  
gap blocks a fraction of the radiation coming from a particular  
direction.  In other words, the photons are stopped in the gap and  
their energy heats the walls of the gap.  The other photons pass right  
through the material without interacting or producing a force.


 What produces the force?  The photons that are captured by the gap  
pass through the material without interacting until they reach the  
gap. Only at the gap is their presence felt by the material, but in  
the form of heat energy.  For a force to be felt by the material, the  
photons must interact and transfer momentum.  Does this mean all  
vacuum photons change direction when passing through a material and  
the gap simply removes a momentum vector such that a net force remains  
perpendicular to the gap?


If this is the explanation, we have still another assumption - a  
photon can bounce off an atom without changing its energy (frequency)  
and in the process transfer momentum to the atom while the photon goes  
in a different direction.  Normally, a photon interacts with an  
electron, sending it in a different direction but at the same time  
ionizing the atom to which the electron was attached. Why does this  
process not occur when the vacuum photons interact with matter?


Ed Storms


On May 17, 2013, at 11:22 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:


Ed:
Two things...

1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir
effect... (sorry Fran).
Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range  
of
frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably  
approaching the
Plank frequency).  Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will  
ONLY
exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the  
plates.  This

is what creates the unbalanced forces which want to push the plates
together.  All vacuum frequencies are pushing on the outside  
surfaces of the
plates, but a limited range of frequencies are between the plates,  
so forces
pushing plates apart is less than outside forces pushing plates  
together.

This effect only becomes significant for very small plate separation.

2. Empirical evidence for the Casimir effect is now fairly well  
established,
and has been tested by several groups, including Steve Lamoreaux  
from your
old stomping ground of Los Alamos.  It has also become a practical  
issue now
that nanotechnology has reached the commercialization stage. The  
following

is from the Wikipedia article:
-
One of the first experimental tests was conducted by Marcus Sparnaay  
at
Philips in Eindhoven, in 1958, in a delicate and difficult  
experiment with
parallel plates, obtaining results not in contradiction with the  
Casimir
theory,[22][23] but with large experimental errors. Some of the  
experimental
details as well as some background information on how Casimir,  
Polder and
Sparnaay arrived at this point[24] are highlighted in a 2007  
interview with

Marcus Sparnaay.

The Casimir effect was measured more accurately in 1997 by Steve K.
Lamoreaux of Los Alamos National Laboratory,[25] and by Umar  
Mohideen and
Anushree Roy of the University of California at Riverside.[26] In  
practice,
rather than using two parallel plates, which would require  
phenomenally
accurate alignment to ensure they were parallel, the experiments use  
one
plate that is flat and another plate that is a part of a sphere with  
a large

radius.

In 2001, a group (Giacomo Bressi, Gianni Carugno, Roberto Onofrio and
Giuseppe Ruoso) at the University of Padua (Italy) finally succeeded  
in

measuring the Casimir force between parallel plates using
microresonators.[27]
---

-Mark

-Original Message-
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:42 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Thanks for the description Fran. Let's focus on one subject at a  
time, in

this case the Casimir effect.

While you use and value theory, I see no value in a theory unless it  
fits an
observation. So, let's look at the Casimir effect in this context.   
The
evidence for the theoretical idea called the Casimir effect is based  
on a
force being measured between two slabs of material that form a  
narrow gap
between them. The assumption is that the material blocks the vacuum  
energy

from entering the gap. As a result, more force is pushing inward than
outward. Such a force results from all at

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Harry Veeder]

Assuming the casimir force  is the best explanation of the observed force
on the plates, wouldn't the vacuum energy produce a drag on all moving
bodies?

Harry


On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 1:22 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

> Ed:
> Two things...
>
> 1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir
> effect... (sorry Fran).
> Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range of
> frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably approaching
> the
> Plank frequency).  Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY
> exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates.
>  This
> is what creates the unbalanced forces which want to push the plates
> together.  All vacuum frequencies are pushing on the outside surfaces of
> the
> plates, but a limited range of frequencies are between the plates, so
> forces
> pushing plates apart is less than outside forces pushing plates together.
> This effect only becomes significant for very small plate separation.
>
> 2. Empirical evidence for the Casimir effect is now fairly well
> established,
> and has been tested by several groups, including Steve Lamoreaux from your
> old stomping ground of Los Alamos.  It has also become a practical issue
> now
> that nanotechnology has reached the commercialization stage. The following
> is from the Wikipedia article:
> -
> One of the first experimental tests was conducted by Marcus Sparnaay at
> Philips in Eindhoven, in 1958, in a delicate and difficult experiment with
> parallel plates, obtaining results not in contradiction with the Casimir
> theory,[22][23] but with large experimental errors. Some of the
> experimental
> details as well as some background information on how Casimir, Polder and
> Sparnaay arrived at this point[24] are highlighted in a 2007 interview with
> Marcus Sparnaay.
>
> The Casimir effect was measured more accurately in 1997 by Steve K.
> Lamoreaux of Los Alamos National Laboratory,[25] and by Umar Mohideen and
> Anushree Roy of the University of California at Riverside.[26] In practice,
> rather than using two parallel plates, which would require phenomenally
> accurate alignment to ensure they were parallel, the experiments use one
> plate that is flat and another plate that is a part of a sphere with a
> large
> radius.
>
> In 2001, a group (Giacomo Bressi, Gianni Carugno, Roberto Onofrio and
> Giuseppe Ruoso) at the University of Padua (Italy) finally succeeded in
> measuring the Casimir force between parallel plates using
> microresonators.[27]
> ---
>
> -Mark
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

Yes, **wavelengths** larger (=lower frequencies) than the plate spacing will
be excluded...
Thx for the correction Andy!
-m

-Original Message-
From: Andy Findlay [mailto:andy_find...@orange.net] 
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:25 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Hi Mark,

Possible typo alert:

I think you meant to say 'wavelengths', not 'frequencies'.

Andy.

On 17/05/13 18:22, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:
> Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY exclude vacuum 
> frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates.

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Andy Findlay]

Hi Mark,

Possible typo alert:

I think you meant to say 'wavelengths', not 'frequencies'.

Andy.

On 17/05/13 18:22, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY
exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates.

RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

Ed:
Two things...

1. I don't think Fran's explanation adequately explained the Casimir
effect... (sorry Fran).
Theory posits that the vacuum is made up of almost an infinite range of
frequencies (some have proposed a cutoff frequency, probably approaching the
Plank frequency).  Closely spaced, parallel conducting plates will ONLY
exclude vacuum frequencies LARGER than the spacing between the plates.  This
is what creates the unbalanced forces which want to push the plates
together.  All vacuum frequencies are pushing on the outside surfaces of the
plates, but a limited range of frequencies are between the plates, so forces
pushing plates apart is less than outside forces pushing plates together.
This effect only becomes significant for very small plate separation.

2. Empirical evidence for the Casimir effect is now fairly well established,
and has been tested by several groups, including Steve Lamoreaux from your
old stomping ground of Los Alamos.  It has also become a practical issue now
that nanotechnology has reached the commercialization stage. The following
is from the Wikipedia article:
-
One of the first experimental tests was conducted by Marcus Sparnaay at
Philips in Eindhoven, in 1958, in a delicate and difficult experiment with
parallel plates, obtaining results not in contradiction with the Casimir
theory,[22][23] but with large experimental errors. Some of the experimental
details as well as some background information on how Casimir, Polder and
Sparnaay arrived at this point[24] are highlighted in a 2007 interview with
Marcus Sparnaay.

The Casimir effect was measured more accurately in 1997 by Steve K.
Lamoreaux of Los Alamos National Laboratory,[25] and by Umar Mohideen and
Anushree Roy of the University of California at Riverside.[26] In practice,
rather than using two parallel plates, which would require phenomenally
accurate alignment to ensure they were parallel, the experiments use one
plate that is flat and another plate that is a part of a sphere with a large
radius.

In 2001, a group (Giacomo Bressi, Gianni Carugno, Roberto Onofrio and
Giuseppe Ruoso) at the University of Padua (Italy) finally succeeded in
measuring the Casimir force between parallel plates using
microresonators.[27]
---

-Mark

-Original Message-
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:42 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Thanks for the description Fran. Let's focus on one subject at a time, in
this case the Casimir effect.

While you use and value theory, I see no value in a theory unless it fits an
observation. So, let's look at the Casimir effect in this context.  The
evidence for the theoretical idea called the Casimir effect is based on a
force being measured between two slabs of material that form a narrow gap
between them. The assumption is that the material blocks the vacuum energy
from entering the gap. As a result, more force is pushing inward than
outward. Such a force results from all atoms in the material being affected,
not just those atoms you might identify as part of a quantum process.

This model assumes the material blocks the vacuum radiation. However, such
blocking has no justification. If no blocking or only partial blocking
occurred, the measurements would have no relationship to the proposed
theory.  Yet, people carry on as if this measurement supports the theory.
This looks like an idea that is accepted only because it was expected based
on an assumption - the assumption being that energy exists in vacuum that is
blocked by matter. As with all ideas, anything can be explained with a few
assumptions and the mathematical tools that are available, whether the
effect is real or not.  That is why the initial assumptions have to be
correct.

Let's go one step further. Let's assume energy does exist in the vacuum,
which I agree is likely to be the case. This energy will  
obviously have many effects. The question is: What are the effects?   
If the energy is blocked by matter, then it can not get into materials and
affect any process that takes place inside of any container or inside of any
material, such as radioactivity as you proposed. If matter is transparent,
the radiation can affect behavior inside of containers but not produce the
Casimir effect. If matter is opaque, the Casimir effect would work, but
nothing inside of a container or solid material could be affected by the
radiation.  In other words, the idea seems to have a logical conflict. How
is this conflict resolved?

Ed Storms


On May 17, 2013, at 9:42 AM, Roarty, Francis X wrote:

> Hi Ed,
>   Vacuum energy can never be totally blocked by Casimir geometry or 
> anything physical, even an ideal metal with optimum geometry won't 
> totally block vacuum energy since it needs to permeate all matter in a 
> Wave Structure of Matter kind of way -cant have

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Edmund Storms]

vacuum pressure on the nucleus and electron where the well between  
is created by this moving sea of virtual particles passing through  
our plane where more pressure is exerted on the nucleus and leaves  
the electrons' attraction to forever chase the nucleus thru time.


Casimir effect is on a different scale and needs quantum effects but  
IMHO it employs the same sort of relativistic methods to suppress  
the vacuum. The formula makes it clear how the energy is  
proportional to surface area and the cube of the spacing between  
suppression boundaries.. a good analogy is the venturi effect where  
buildings act as sails opposing the flow / creating pressure on  
outside surfaces while the gap between buildings tries to alleviate  
the pressure and "virtual particles" rush to exit the time axis via  
the spatial cavity created by the geometry. Effectively accelerating  
time on average at various rates according to the most local  
suppression geometry.. this is why skeletal catalysts and casimir  
geometry are related, changes in casimir geometry are catalytic. A  
paper from Cornell confirms catalytic action at openings and defects  
of nanotubes. The changes in "pressure" according to cavity topology  
experienced by gas atoms is just strong catalytic action. I think  
normal catalytic action is a lesser combination of this rate of  
change in vacuum pressure while these claims of anomalous heat  are  
examples of super catalytic action where the average suppression  
rate is much higher and dynamic changes in geometry more abrupt to  
the point where they can discount reversible reactions to OU.  
Surface area, figures of merit perhaps it is time to add  
geometry for cat selection?


I didn't respond to your point of "thin" metal plates suppressing  
radiation because frankly I don't know how the effect is modified  
with thickness -whether 10 atom sheets to make casimir plates would  
measure the same value as single atom plates.. I would guess several  
layers would reinforce the quantum effect of the surface layers  
forming the cavity.


Fran


-Original Message-
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:22 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Fran and Andy, I have always wanted to ask someone who believes in the
Casimir effect why they think the vacuum energy would be blocked by a
thin wall of material.  The vacuum energy is proposed to have a very
large frequency, which normally would be expected to pass right
through matter. Therefore, why would a cavity created by a few atoms
within a crystal structure have any effect on such radiation?

If the material is opaque to the radiation, the vacuum radiation would
not even reach the cavities within the interior of the material and
have no effect on what might happen there. If the material is not
opaque, then the cavity does not exist as far as the radiation is
concerned.  People keep trying to apply this model to cold fusion.
Cold fusion is difficult enough to understand without applying an
effect that itself makes no sense.

Ed Storms


On May 16, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Andy Findlay wrote:


Hi Fran,

Raney Nickel would indeed appear to be perfect territory for Casimir
effects to be taking place. But I'd need some therapeutic maths
counselling to comment sensibly on any relativistic effects.

Andy.

On 16/05/13 19:58, Roarty, Francis X wrote:

Also skeletal catalysts like Rayney nickel are an inverse form of
Casimir geometry with pit sizes in the same sweet spot for strong
suppression of virtual particles as casimir plates. This was the
first clue that lured me in to believing these claims regarding
powders and skeletal cats like those used by Mills are all related
to the same underlying environment...supression of longer vacuum
wavelengths. All the claims regarding modified half lives and
relativistic energies leads me to believe the "suppression" is
actually relativistic and that the longer vacuum wavelengths remain
unchanged to a local observer in the pit of a skeletal cat or
cavities formed between powders grains or cracks in lattice of
Casimir geometry.
Fran

-Original Message-
From: Andy Findlay [mailto:andy_find...@orange.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:01 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Hi Jack,

I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more
interesting
when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel
(google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very  
interesting

properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel
'metallic foam' with Hydrogen.

I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I
suspect not.

Andy.

On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote:

Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with
aluminum to produc

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[ChemE Stewart]

s act as sails opposing the flow /
> creating pressure on outside surfaces while the gap between buildings tries
> to alleviate the pressure and "virtual particles" rush to exit the time
> axis via the spatial cavity created by the geometry. Effectively
> accelerating time on average at various rates according to the most local
> suppression geometry.. this is why skeletal catalysts and casimir geometry
> are related, changes in casimir geometry are catalytic. A paper from
> Cornell confirms catalytic action at openings and defects of nanotubes. The
> changes in "pressure" according to cavity topology experienced by gas atoms
> is just strong catalytic action. I think normal catalytic action is a
> lesser combination of this rate of change in vacuum pressure while these
> claims of anomalous heat  are examples of super catalytic action where the
> average suppression rate is much higher and dynamic changes in geometry
> more abrupt to the point where they can discount reversible reactions to
> OU. Surface area, figures of merit perhaps it is time to add geometry
> for cat selection?
>
> I didn't respond to your point of "thin" metal plates suppressing
> radiation because frankly I don't know how the effect is modified with
> thickness -whether 10 atom sheets to make casimir plates would measure the
> same value as single atom plates.. I would guess several layers would
> reinforce the quantum effect of the surface layers forming the cavity.
>
> Fran
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:22 PM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Cc: Edmund Storms
> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
>
> Fran and Andy, I have always wanted to ask someone who believes in the
> Casimir effect why they think the vacuum energy would be blocked by a
> thin wall of material.  The vacuum energy is proposed to have a very
> large frequency, which normally would be expected to pass right
> through matter. Therefore, why would a cavity created by a few atoms
> within a crystal structure have any effect on such radiation?
>
> If the material is opaque to the radiation, the vacuum radiation would
> not even reach the cavities within the interior of the material and
> have no effect on what might happen there. If the material is not
> opaque, then the cavity does not exist as far as the radiation is
> concerned.  People keep trying to apply this model to cold fusion.
> Cold fusion is difficult enough to understand without applying an
> effect that itself makes no sense.
>
> Ed Storms
>
>
> On May 16, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Andy Findlay wrote:
>
> > Hi Fran,
> >
> > Raney Nickel would indeed appear to be perfect territory for Casimir
> > effects to be taking place. But I'd need some therapeutic maths
> > counselling to comment sensibly on any relativistic effects.
> >
> > Andy.
> >
> > On 16/05/13 19:58, Roarty, Francis X wrote:
> >> Also skeletal catalysts like Rayney nickel are an inverse form of
> >> Casimir geometry with pit sizes in the same sweet spot for strong
> >> suppression of virtual particles as casimir plates. This was the
> >> first clue that lured me in to believing these claims regarding
> >> powders and skeletal cats like those used by Mills are all related
> >> to the same underlying environment...supression of longer vacuum
> >> wavelengths. All the claims regarding modified half lives and
> >> relativistic energies leads me to believe the "suppression" is
> >> actually relativistic and that the longer vacuum wavelengths remain
> >> unchanged to a local observer in the pit of a skeletal cat or
> >> cavities formed between powders grains or cracks in lattice of
> >> Casimir geometry.
> >> Fran
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Andy Findlay [mailto:andy_find...@orange.net]
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:01 PM
> >> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> >> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)
> >>
> >> Hi Jack,
> >>
> >> I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more
> >> interesting
> >> when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel
> >> (google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very interesting
> >> properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel
> >> 'metallic foam' with Hydrogen.
> >>
> >> I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I
> >> suspect not.
> >>
> >> Andy.
> >>
> >> On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote:
> >>> Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with
> >>> aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis
> >>> with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting.  Any thoughts?
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of
> >>> KOH or
> >>> NaOH without electrolysis.  I don't know if the hydrogen produced
> >>> would load into the lattice.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Jack
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[torulf.greek]

Is aluminium metal good for absorb hydrogen? 
I also wonder which metals how is bad to absorb hydrogen?
Its not but to find good materials for hydrogen loading but also to
avoid de-loading.
For example a connecting cord to an anode can de-lode hydrogen from Ni
or Pd in an electrolytic experiment. 
It may take H/D from the anode out to the air.
Even Cu may absorb some hydrogen.
A "simple" thing as make a bad connecting for an anode may ruin a
potential good experiment. What is good to use as connecting metal and
for solder?


On Thu, 16 May 2013 12:11:41 -0600, Edmund Storms
 wrote:
> I studied Raney Ni and found no evidence for extra heat. The material
> is actually an Ni-Al alloy that contains a small fraction of Al. It
> is  very reactive to oxygen, unreactive to water and unreactive to H2.
> It  is dangerous to use without care.
> 
> Ed Storms
> On May 16, 2013, at 12:00 PM, Andy Findlay wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jack,
>>
>> I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more  > interesting 
>> when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces  > Raney Nickel 
>> (google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has  > very interesting 
>> properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the  > Raney Nickel 'metallic 
>> foam' with Hydrogen.
>>
>> I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I  > 
>> suspect not.
>>
>> Andy.
>>
>> On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote:
>>> Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with  >> 
>>> aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis  >> 
>>> with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting.  Any thoughts?
>>>
>>> Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH  >> or 
>>> NaOH without electrolysis.  I don't know if the hydrogen  >> produced would 
>>> load into the lattice.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Jack
>>

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Roarty, Francis X]

Hi Ed,
Vacuum energy can never be totally blocked by Casimir geometry or 
anything physical, even an ideal metal with optimum geometry won't totally 
block vacuum energy since it needs to permeate all matter in a Wave Structure 
of Matter kind of way -cant have matter [a persistent waveform / canoe stuck in 
the waterfall] without this medium passing through our plane.  All matter even 
at the smallest subatomic scale has 8 sides, 6 spatial and 2 that we call 
temporal. Relativity teaches us that a spaceship can travel along this temporal 
axis without being aware of the difference to a stationary frame until 
comparing for time dilation upon return. We are in effect, a 3D ant farm where 
the glass separates us from past and future but vacuum radiation fills the 
entire 4D void. My neo Lorentzian posit is that whatever rate these virtual 
particles/vacuum wavelengths from the void transgress through our 3d ant farm 
plane we will always perceive locally as C. We will locally see the full 
spectrum of vacuum wavelengths whether we are stationary at a spaceship 
approaching C or a tiny hydrogen atom inside a vacuum suppressed cavity. I am 
convinced that whenever scientists talk about experiments where they suppress 
certain vacuum wavelengths/virtual particles in a lattice it is actually 
dialation/ Lorentzian contraction they are observing. HUP can be envisioned as 
virtual particles from this void growing into one side of our ant farm plane 
and then contracting out the other side at whatever rate this medium happens to 
be passing thru..and these virtual particles push matter randomly in every 
direction to make room for their passage -jitter. Puthoff refers to a "vacuum 
pressure" when these virtual particles encounter matter and this interaction 
being the clock works behind ZPE and the ground states upon which physics 
/periodic chart is based. I think radioactivity and pyrophoricity are examples 
where this interface is less stable but already normalized / rolled into our 
science while Casimir effect will allow for a new science that Puthoff refers 
to as vacuum engineering. My pet theory remains that this new science will 
allow for the presently considered unusable energy of HUP / gas motion to be 
exploited. 


>From a temporal perspective our physical universe is a flat ribbon [ant farm] 
>where even the subatomic matter of molten metals in the earths core are all 
>equally exposed to the time axis, as the virtual particles pass thru they 
>impart ground state energy to all physical matter and are responsible for all 
>our physical laws at different scales. I like to consider the atomic scale as 
>the difference in vacuum pressure on the nucleus and electron where the well 
>between is created by this moving sea of virtual particles passing through our 
>plane where more pressure is exerted on the nucleus and leaves the electrons' 
>attraction to forever chase the nucleus thru time.

Casimir effect is on a different scale and needs quantum effects but IMHO it 
employs the same sort of relativistic methods to suppress the vacuum. The 
formula makes it clear how the energy is proportional to surface area and the 
cube of the spacing between suppression boundaries.. a good analogy is the 
venturi effect where buildings act as sails opposing the flow / creating 
pressure on outside surfaces while the gap between buildings tries to alleviate 
the pressure and "virtual particles" rush to exit the time axis via the spatial 
cavity created by the geometry. Effectively accelerating time on average at 
various rates according to the most local suppression geometry.. this is why 
skeletal catalysts and casimir geometry are related, changes in casimir 
geometry are catalytic. A paper from Cornell confirms catalytic action at 
openings and defects of nanotubes. The changes in "pressure" according to 
cavity topology experienced by gas atoms is just strong catalytic action. I 
think normal catalytic action is a lesser combination of this rate of change in 
vacuum pressure while these claims of anomalous heat  are examples of super 
catalytic action where the average suppression rate is much higher and dynamic 
changes in geometry more abrupt to the point where they can discount reversible 
reactions to OU. Surface area, figures of merit perhaps it is time to add 
geometry for cat selection?

I didn't respond to your point of "thin" metal plates suppressing radiation 
because frankly I don't know how the effect is modified with thickness -whether 
10 atom sheets to make casimir plates would measure the same value as single 
atom plates.. I would guess several layers would reinforce the quantum effect 
of the surface layers forming the cavity. 

Fran
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:22 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: Edmund Storms
Sub

RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Roarty, Francis X]

Jones,
 I only read your top citation so far but it does indicate the 
emissions recorded may have been due to ZPE [snip] We analyzed the emission 
from different gases and cavities to determine its origin. None of the 
conventional thermodynamic models we applied to our data fully explain it, 
leaving open the possibility that it is due to Casimir-cavity-induced emission 
from ZP fields.[/snip]
 Even this is surprising if you consider the submicron pores mentioned are 
probably the 100 nm scale from their original patent and stacked layer 
prototype [alternating conductive/insulating layers with tunnels drilled thru 
the stack]... too large for any vigorous Casimir force..their original intent 
was to pursue a Lamb Pinch effect to collect far less energy but cycled rapidly 
 via gas flow through numerous layers to accumulate the effect. I don't believe 
their sub micron pore size  is anywhere near Rayney nickel or Rossi's tubules - 
granted the tubule size is also near micron scale but I believe the shape and 
protrusions of a tubule can create spacing voids between tubules much smaller 
than the tubule when they clump together to form a bulk powder. There also 
remains the open question with tubules that the secret sauce is backfilling the 
geometry between tubules making them a super catalyst.
Best Regards
Fran  




-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:32 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

http://ecee.colorado.edu/~moddel/QEL/Papers/DmitriyevaModdel12.pdf

Garret Moddel at Colorado has a patent application and has been looking for
Casimir/ZPE heating for several years in nanocavities. Success has been
marginal at best.

http://www.google.com/patents/WO2008039176A3?cl=en&dq=Garret+Moddel&hl=en&sa
=X&ei=3E6VUajuMoKxiwKzhoGQAw&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAQ




-Original Message-
From: Andy Findlay 

Yes, Terry, but note I was talking about anomalous heat.

Terry Blanton wrote:

>> I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. Whether
they look or not, they often find heat considering that the material is
flammable.

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Terry Blanton]

On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Andy Findlay  wrote:
> Yes, Terry, but note I was talking about anomalous heat.

Yeah, it was intended as a bit of humor.

RE: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Jones Beene]

http://ecee.colorado.edu/~moddel/QEL/Papers/DmitriyevaModdel12.pdf

Garret Moddel at Colorado has a patent application and has been looking for
Casimir/ZPE heating for several years in nanocavities. Success has been
marginal at best.

http://www.google.com/patents/WO2008039176A3?cl=en&dq=Garret+Moddel&hl=en&sa
=X&ei=3E6VUajuMoKxiwKzhoGQAw&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAQ




-Original Message-
From: Andy Findlay 

Yes, Terry, but note I was talking about anomalous heat.

Terry Blanton wrote:

>> I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. Whether
they look or not, they often find heat considering that the material is
flammable.

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Edmund Storms]

Fran and Andy, I have always wanted to ask someone who believes in the  
Casimir effect why they think the vacuum energy would be blocked by a  
thin wall of material.  The vacuum energy is proposed to have a very  
large frequency, which normally would be expected to pass right  
through matter. Therefore, why would a cavity created by a few atoms  
within a crystal structure have any effect on such radiation?


If the material is opaque to the radiation, the vacuum radiation would  
not even reach the cavities within the interior of the material and  
have no effect on what might happen there. If the material is not  
opaque, then the cavity does not exist as far as the radiation is  
concerned.  People keep trying to apply this model to cold fusion.  
Cold fusion is difficult enough to understand without applying an  
effect that itself makes no sense.


Ed Storms


On May 16, 2013, at 1:20 PM, Andy Findlay wrote:


Hi Fran,

Raney Nickel would indeed appear to be perfect territory for Casimir  
effects to be taking place. But I'd need some therapeutic maths  
counselling to comment sensibly on any relativistic effects.


Andy.

On 16/05/13 19:58, Roarty, Francis X wrote:
Also skeletal catalysts like Rayney nickel are an inverse form of  
Casimir geometry with pit sizes in the same sweet spot for strong  
suppression of virtual particles as casimir plates. This was the  
first clue that lured me in to believing these claims regarding  
powders and skeletal cats like those used by Mills are all related  
to the same underlying environment...supression of longer vacuum  
wavelengths. All the claims regarding modified half lives and  
relativistic energies leads me to believe the "suppression" is  
actually relativistic and that the longer vacuum wavelengths remain  
unchanged to a local observer in the pit of a skeletal cat or  
cavities formed between powders grains or cracks in lattice of  
Casimir geometry.

Fran

-Original Message-
From: Andy Findlay [mailto:andy_find...@orange.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:01 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Hi Jack,

I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more  
interesting

when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel
(google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very interesting
properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel
'metallic foam' with Hydrogen.

I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I
suspect not.

Andy.

On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote:

Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with
aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis
with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting.  Any thoughts?

Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of  
KOH or

NaOH without electrolysis.  I don't know if the hydrogen produced
would load into the lattice.

Best regards,
Jack

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Andy Findlay]

Thanks, Ed.

The implied question in my response to the original post was really 
directed more towards the actual process of producing  Raney Nickel than 
what you can do with it thereafter. The chemical reaction is apparently 
strongly exothermic (in and of itself) and progresses faster at higher 
temperatures, so any anomalous heat could easily be overlooked - or 
dismissed as being the heat of combustion due to contact with O2.


Might be worth a look though, I think.

Andy.
On 16/05/13 21:22, Edmund Storms wrote:

Hi Andy,

I heat it with H2 and looked for heat and radiation. I saw nothing 
unusual.  I did not explore this in depth because I did not expect it 
to be active.  Nevertheless, it might be active under other conditions 
I did not explore.  I was more interested in other materials that were 
active.


Ed

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Edmund Storms]

Hi Andy,

I heat it with H2 and looked for heat and radiation. I saw nothing  
unusual.  I did not explore this in depth because I did not expect it  
to be active.  Nevertheless, it might be active under other conditions  
I did not explore.  I was more interested in other materials that were  
active.


Ed
On May 16, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Andy Findlay wrote:


HI Ed,

Yes, I should have mentioned the dangers involved but for some  
reason or another I was assuming people would read up on it before  
trying anything.


I am curious to know, though, whether you were looking at heat  
during the production of Raney Nickel, or how it behaves in a Rossi  
type setup?


Andy.

On 16/05/13 19:11, Edmund Storms wrote:
I studied Raney Ni and found no evidence for extra heat. The  
material is actually an Ni-Al alloy that contains a small fraction  
of Al. It is very reactive to oxygen, unreactive to water and  
unreactive to H2. It is dangerous to use without care.


Ed Storms
On May 16, 2013, at 12:00 PM, Andy Findlay wrote:


Hi Jack,

I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more  
interesting when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction  
produces Raney Nickel (google it - it is a nano-porous material)  
which has very interesting properties. The reaction effectively  
pre-loads the Raney Nickel 'metallic foam' with Hydrogen.


I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process.  
I suspect not.


Andy.

On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote:
Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with  
aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in  
electrolysis with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting.  Any  
thoughts?


Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of  
KOH or NaOH without electrolysis.  I don't know if the hydrogen  
produced would load into the lattice.


Best regards,
Jack

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Andy Findlay]

Yes, Terry, but note I was talking about anomalous heat.

On 16/05/13 19:12, Terry Blanton wrote:

On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Andy Findlay  wrote:


I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process.

Whether they look or not, they often find heat considering that the
material is flammable.

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Andy Findlay]

Hi Fran,

Raney Nickel would indeed appear to be perfect territory for Casimir 
effects to be taking place. But I'd need some therapeutic maths 
counselling to comment sensibly on any relativistic effects.


Andy.

On 16/05/13 19:58, Roarty, Francis X wrote:

Also skeletal catalysts like Rayney nickel are an inverse form of Casimir geometry with 
pit sizes in the same sweet spot for strong suppression of virtual particles as casimir 
plates. This was the first clue that lured me in to believing these claims regarding 
powders and skeletal cats like those used by Mills are all related to the same underlying 
environment...supression of longer vacuum wavelengths. All the claims regarding modified 
half lives and relativistic energies leads me to believe the "suppression" is 
actually relativistic and that the longer vacuum wavelengths remain unchanged to a local 
observer in the pit of a skeletal cat or cavities formed between powders grains or cracks 
in lattice of Casimir geometry.
Fran

-Original Message-
From: Andy Findlay [mailto:andy_find...@orange.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:01 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Hi Jack,

I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more interesting
when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel
(google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very interesting
properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel
'metallic foam' with Hydrogen.

I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I
suspect not.

Andy.

On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote:

Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with
aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis
with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting.  Any thoughts?

Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH or
NaOH without electrolysis.  I don't know if the hydrogen produced
would load into the lattice.

Best regards,
Jack

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Roarty, Francis X]

Also skeletal catalysts like Rayney nickel are an inverse form of Casimir 
geometry with pit sizes in the same sweet spot for strong suppression of 
virtual particles as casimir plates. This was the first clue that lured me in 
to believing these claims regarding powders and skeletal cats like those used 
by Mills are all related to the same underlying environment...supression of 
longer vacuum wavelengths. All the claims regarding modified half lives and 
relativistic energies leads me to believe the "suppression" is actually 
relativistic and that the longer vacuum wavelengths remain unchanged to a local 
observer in the pit of a skeletal cat or cavities formed between powders grains 
or cracks in lattice of Casimir geometry. 
Fran

-Original Message-
From: Andy Findlay [mailto:andy_find...@orange.net] 
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:01 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

Hi Jack,

I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more interesting 
when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel 
(google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very interesting 
properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel 
'metallic foam' with Hydrogen.

I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I 
suspect not.

Andy.

On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote:
> Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with 
> aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis 
> with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting.  Any thoughts?
>
> Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH or 
> NaOH without electrolysis.  I don't know if the hydrogen produced 
> would load into the lattice.
>
> Best regards,
> Jack

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Andy Findlay]

HI Ed,

Yes, I should have mentioned the dangers involved but for some reason or 
another I was assuming people would read up on it before trying anything.


I am curious to know, though, whether you were looking at heat during 
the production of Raney Nickel, or how it behaves in a Rossi type setup?


Andy.

On 16/05/13 19:11, Edmund Storms wrote:
I studied Raney Ni and found no evidence for extra heat. The material 
is actually an Ni-Al alloy that contains a small fraction of Al. It is 
very reactive to oxygen, unreactive to water and unreactive to H2. It 
is dangerous to use without care.


Ed Storms
On May 16, 2013, at 12:00 PM, Andy Findlay wrote:


Hi Jack,

I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more 
interesting when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces 
Raney Nickel (google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has 
very interesting properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the 
Raney Nickel 'metallic foam' with Hydrogen.


I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I 
suspect not.


Andy.

On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote:
Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with 
aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis 
with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting.  Any thoughts?


Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH 
or NaOH without electrolysis.  I don't know if the hydrogen produced 
would load into the lattice.


Best regards,
Jack

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Terry Blanton]

On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Andy Findlay  wrote:

> I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process.

Whether they look or not, they often find heat considering that the
material is flammable.

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Edmund Storms]

I studied Raney Ni and found no evidence for extra heat. The material  
is actually an Ni-Al alloy that contains a small fraction of Al. It is  
very reactive to oxygen, unreactive to water and unreactive to H2. It  
is dangerous to use without care.


Ed Storms
On May 16, 2013, at 12:00 PM, Andy Findlay wrote:


Hi Jack,

I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more  
interesting when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces  
Raney Nickel (google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has  
very interesting properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the  
Raney Nickel 'metallic foam' with Hydrogen.


I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I  
suspect not.


Andy.

On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote:
Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with  
aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis  
with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting.  Any thoughts?


Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH  
or NaOH without electrolysis.  I don't know if the hydrogen  
produced would load into the lattice.


Best regards,
Jack

Re: [Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Andy Findlay]

Hi Jack,

I had the same idea a couple of years ago. It gets even more interesting 
when you realize that the NiAl + NaOH reaction produces Raney Nickel 
(google it - it is a nano-porous material) which has very interesting 
properties. The reaction effectively pre-loads the Raney Nickel 
'metallic foam' with Hydrogen.


I wonder if anyone has looked for anomalous heat in this process. I 
suspect not.


Andy.

On 16/05/13 17:21, Jack Cole wrote:
Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with 
aluminum to produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis 
with KOH or NaOH might prove interesting.  Any thoughts?


Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH or 
NaOH without electrolysis.  I don't know if the hydrogen produced 
would load into the lattice.


Best regards,
Jack

[Vo]:Nickel Aluminum (NiAl)

[Jack Cole]

Since either potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide react with aluminum to
produce hydrogen, I wonder if NiAl wire in electrolysis with KOH or NaOH
might prove interesting.  Any thoughts?

Perhaps even simpler would be adding this wire to a solution of KOH or NaOH
without electrolysis.  I don't know if the hydrogen produced would load
into the lattice.

Best regards,
Jack