Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: First round of Working Group members

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi All,

as someone around for 10+ years I must say never really felt reached out to
by these initiatives.

As the years passed I saw smaller and smaller chance to "get in" anywhere
without building some sort of a(n) (international) wiki career first, what
means years of stepping up on a corporate-esque ladder, spending the
appropriate time on each level, before becoming eligible to step up.

Note, we talk about an advisory board here, not decision making.

This pretty much kills volunteerism in the wikimedia movement.

If one suggestion can be shouted in from the sideline, I'd suggest to think
about excluding all who currently has or had in the past 12 months any
formal position in the movement (board members, committee members,
employees and all equivalent).

If anyone is interested in new voices.

Regards,
Balazs

Paulo Santos Perneta  ezt írta (2018. július 27.,
péntek):

> Hello Jane,
>
> >
> ​
> I think that we are in fact split down the middle into parties that believe
> "some languages are better than others" and "let's save all existing
> languages on the planet, including all of their fonts ever used on- and
> offline".
>
> ​I don't know why do you wrote this, as I never had this impression, at
> all. We are split by languages since ​the Babel Tower was embargoed by God,
> but I never, ever remember hearing someone saying or even hinting that
> "some languages are better than others".
>
> All the best,
>
> Paulo
>
>
> 2018-07-25 8:28 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell :
>
> > Hmm. Yes and no. Yes the May 2017 conference suffered from some
> interesting
> > selection bias, but no the people there were not all brainwashed into
> > forgetting their "wildness". We are all still wild wild Wikipedians at
> > heart, speaking for the 2006 cohort in its entirety. I really doubt
> whether
> > the WMF is trying to shove us all in a direction of their choosing.
> > ​​
> > I think
> > that we are in fact split down the middle into parties that believe "some
> > languages are better than others" and "let's save all existing languages
> on
> > the planet, including all of their fonts ever used on- and offline". Then
> > there is a huge discrepancy in workflow for these people and the folks
> who
> > work in just one language and never think of language as a movement topic
> > at all. Among this monolingual crowd (many of whom do not subscribe to
> any
> > mailing list or other communication outlets) are the overlapping groups
> > between the "field workers" and the "library workers". The field workers
> > tend to operate more by a "drive-by" methodology, and the "library
> workers"
> > tend to operate more by a "step-by-step" methodology. I respectfully
> submit
> > that we have all dabbled in all of these worlds and therefore we all have
> > enough common sense to shout "Whoa!" if something really really wrong
> gets
> > proposed. But in the past I have felt quite strongly that something was
> > really really wrong, but it turned out it was just a factor of me being
> > unaware of workflow difficulties experienced by others. So e.g.
> personally
> > I was against the idea of "protected pages" but have come around to
> seeing
> > they are useful - even on Wikidata.
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:12 PM, Anders Wennersten <
> > m...@anderswennersten.se> wrote:
> >
> > > As I see it the strategy process is run for the functionaries in the
> > > movement and by them. People with focus on contributing to the projects
> > are
> > > not involved, when volunteers is mentioned it is mostly people running
> > > worskhops for beginners etc, a kind of semi functionaries, not the hard
> > > core contributes.
> > >
> > > This could be a good thing and foster a new set of moment leaders,
> fully
> > > in agreement with goals and strategy. It could also be seen as a
> > weakness,
> > > as we do not recognize the more "wild" (but creative)y culture in our
> > > communities and only have the "nice" and obedient culture being
> accepted.
> > >
> > > Facts
> > >
> > > The vision  was really created in Wikiconf 2017 by functionaries
> > >
> > > The way forward was defined by Wikiconf 2017 by functionaries
> > >
> > > The set up of work groups was from the beginning set up  to include
> > (only)
> > > functionaries (time requirement, and first it was also talked of
> > candidates
> > > should be endorsed by local chapters). And the actual selection was not
> > > done transparent as is the culture of the communities but by "boss"
> > > selection (I only feel the movement is starting to resemble a big
> > company,
> > > not the vibrant communities)
> > >
> > > Anders
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Den 2018-07-24 kl. 21:29, skrev Yaroslav Blanter:
> > >
> > >> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 9:16 PM, David Cuenca Tudela <
> dacu...@gmail.com
> > >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I do not know what really happened but if I listen to what has been
> said
> > >> here and earlier on similar occasions, my conclusion is that for the
> > >> Strategy Team we - volunteer

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France Governance review

[Balázs Viczián]

Thank you Asaf. This seems to be a mixture of ppl mgmt and org skills,
shifted heavily towards the latter. The last time I was at wmcon was 2014
[1] when this was bearly a topic at all, only touched it here and there a
bit, when it was inevitable.

Good to see the progress on this.

Hi Mike,

perhaps in the future one could undergo such a review before a crisis
happens. Like a medical checkup, not yearly thoufh, but say every 3-5 years
to prevent/treat in early stage such events.

So far all governance reviews (including this) were responses to a collapse.

[1]  https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2014



Michael Peel  ezt írta (2018. július 12., csütörtök):

> Nominally, the WMF is going to be the next Wikimedia organisation to do a
> governance review, as per:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/FDC_recommendations/2015-2016_
> round_2#Wikimedia_Foundation
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Minutes/2017-11-17,
> 18,19#Governance_Review
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> > On 11 Jul 2018, at 02:36, Balázs Viczián 
> wrote:
> >
> > This report is pretty useful in terms of comparing my chapter's policies
> to
> > this. Probably some fine tuning will follow. Thank you for sharing!
> >
> > Note the pattern: UK, Germany, France, all 'big' chapters. My guess is
> that
> > the next one will very likely to be another 'large' chapter (100+
> members,
> > multiple employees, many paralel projects etc)
> >
> > As the report says very few has at least some experience in running
> > organizations (true worldwide) so no suprise such events happen every few
> > years, not to say those that stay 'local'.
> >
> > Just having 50-100-150k edits is not enough to be a 'boss'
> >
> > Would love to see people management skills workshops, and organizational
> > skills (logistics) workshops...but I attend an event only every 2-3 years
> > (or less), so this is just an almost silent suggestion :)
> >
> > Balazs
> >
> > 2018. júl. 10. 7:44 ezt írta ("Alphos OGame" ):
> >
> > Forgive my (usual ?) bluntness, but I don't think congratulations are in
> > order for undertaking the governance review ;-)
> >
> > As a member and unwilling observer, I can tell you it was dearly needed,
> be
> > it by internal or external auditors, and mandated by the WMF.
> >
> > However, as a long time member of the community and of Wikimedia France,
> I
> > do salute the effort of publishing the results of the review, as the
> > previous board of directors probably wouldn't have wanted to publish
> > anything critical of their method of governance ; and the review covers
> > both old and more recent times.
> > That indeed deserves credit, so thank you Nadine !
> >
> > @ Cornelius : smart thinking on your part, collecting them in one place.
> I
> > hope there won't be any more crisis requiring a governance review in one
> of
> > our chapters, but in any case it will be interesting for all chapters to
> > know what to avoid in the future, and where to look for it, so thank you
> as
> > well.
> >
> > Roger / Alphos
> >
> >
> >
> >> Le 9 juil. 2018 à 13:44, Chris Keating  a
> > écrit :
> >>
> >> Congratulations to Wikimedia France for undertaking this review and
> >> publishing the results.
> >>
> >> I believe all of the 3 governance reviews are important reading for
> >> anyone involved with the WMF or any of the affiliates, and all have
> >> important lessons for the movement. It's interesting to note that this
> >> is the first one that touches on the WMF-affiliate relationship in
> >> much detail.
> >>
> >> Also - while so far governance reviews have only happened as a result
> >> of a crisis, this doesn't have to be the case! I would urge Wikimedia
> >> affiliates to take external advice on their governance, the
> >> suggestions offered by governance experts who know the laws, norms and
> >> cutlure in which you operate will be very helpful for you.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >> (who was Chair of Wikimedia UK at the point we had a governance
> review...)
> >>> On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 10:43 PM Nadine Le Lirzin <
> nlelir...@wikimedia.fr>
> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> As announced last month on this list[1], the Governance Assessment
> Report
> >>> by external auditors "Associés en gouvernance" has been published, and
> we
> >>> want t

[Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France Governance review

[Balázs Viczián]

This report is pretty useful in terms of comparing my chapter's policies to
this. Probably some fine tuning will follow. Thank you for sharing!

Note the pattern: UK, Germany, France, all 'big' chapters. My guess is that
the next one will very likely to be another 'large' chapter (100+ members,
multiple employees, many paralel projects etc)

As the report says very few has at least some experience in running
organizations (true worldwide) so no suprise such events happen every few
years, not to say those that stay 'local'.

Just having 50-100-150k edits is not enough to be a 'boss'

Would love to see people management skills workshops, and organizational
skills (logistics) workshops...but I attend an event only every 2-3 years
(or less), so this is just an almost silent suggestion :)

Balazs

2018. júl. 10. 7:44 ezt írta ("Alphos OGame" ):

Forgive my (usual ?) bluntness, but I don't think congratulations are in
order for undertaking the governance review ;-)

As a member and unwilling observer, I can tell you it was dearly needed, be
it by internal or external auditors, and mandated by the WMF.

However, as a long time member of the community and of Wikimedia France, I
do salute the effort of publishing the results of the review, as the
previous board of directors probably wouldn't have wanted to publish
anything critical of their method of governance ; and the review covers
both old and more recent times.
That indeed deserves credit, so thank you Nadine !

@ Cornelius : smart thinking on your part, collecting them in one place. I
hope there won't be any more crisis requiring a governance review in one of
our chapters, but in any case it will be interesting for all chapters to
know what to avoid in the future, and where to look for it, so thank you as
well.

Roger / Alphos



> Le 9 juil. 2018 à 13:44, Chris Keating  a
écrit :
>
> Congratulations to Wikimedia France for undertaking this review and
> publishing the results.
>
> I believe all of the 3 governance reviews are important reading for
> anyone involved with the WMF or any of the affiliates, and all have
> important lessons for the movement. It's interesting to note that this
> is the first one that touches on the WMF-affiliate relationship in
> much detail.
>
> Also - while so far governance reviews have only happened as a result
> of a crisis, this doesn't have to be the case! I would urge Wikimedia
> affiliates to take external advice on their governance, the
> suggestions offered by governance experts who know the laws, norms and
> cutlure in which you operate will be very helpful for you.
>
> Chris
> (who was Chair of Wikimedia UK at the point we had a governance review...)
>> On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 10:43 PM Nadine Le Lirzin 
wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As announced last month on this list[1], the Governance Assessment Report
>> by external auditors "Associés en gouvernance" has been published, and we
>> want to share it with you.
>>
>> The auditors did a great work, first in their rather good understanding
of
>> our movement complexity, and then in the numerous improvement suggestions
>> they delivered.
>>
>> The consultation of our members – to fully associate them to the
rebuilding
>> – is still in progress. Main changes will be submitted to a vote at next
>> General Assembly, by the end of the year.
>>
>> The document has been translated in English and is now available on
>> Commons[2].
>>
>> May these suggestions be useful not only for Wikimédia France, but also
for
>> any other chapter or affiliate that would be in need of governance advice
>> or ideas.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Nadine Le Lirzin
>> *Wikimedia France Board Secretary*
>>
>>
>> [1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2018-
June/090413.html
>> [2]
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_France_-_
Governance_Assessment_Report_-_2018.pdf
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Emerging Communities: a proposed new definition

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi Asaf et All,

Hope I won't get skipped because I barely talk on this list or in general
on an international level but this proposal could have a long term effect
on my chapter.

Happy to see WMF is ready to start giving up at least a bit on geography or
census numbers and shift focus to existing communities based on their
actual state and health.

I would suggest not stopping here but going forward by completely
abandoning geography and such overgeneralization where the entire world can
be described by 3 (that is three) labels.

Instead evaluate each community topic by topic.

Say one: governance. Even WMF itself had such a crisis, not to say the
British, German and now the French "developed" chapters. For them, better
organized but ever labeled "emerging" communities might have been able to
provide support, if their category would not be discouraging them from
stepping in.

Discouraging, yup. Put your hands on your hearts and be honest. We all
think that at least on a general level the "developed" should teach and
support the "emerging" and not the other way around, right?

Yet said governance as an example appears to be a lot more problematic for
the ever "developed" than the ever "emerging".

This proposal does not recognize such patterns but it is a big step forward
nevertheless as it shifts more focus on the existing communities. The
labels are in my subjective opinion are somewhat patronizing as per above.

Balazs,
from an ever "emerging" community

On Sep 27, 2017 19:30, "Asaf Bartov"  wrote:

> Dear Wikimedians,
>
> Years ago, as part of the first Strategy process of 2009-2010, a
> distinction entered our lives, between Global North and Global South
> countries.  That distinction was borrowed from a United Nations agency
> named ITU, and it was used as shorthand to refer to communities the
> Foundation considered to need additional resources and help to achieve
> impact on our mission of creating and sharing free knowledge.
>
> However, the distinction was never a very good fit for us.  It was based on
> UN notions like the Human Development Index, and gave much weight to
> nation-wide economic conditions.  Its binary nature did not allow for
> distinguishing between countries where Wikimedia work is possible and
> happening, albeit with difficulty, and ones where no Wikimedia work, or
> next to none, is happening, or possible.  It also looked only at geography,
> whereas much of our work is defined by language communities and not by
> geographies.  And it was political and alienating to many people.
>
> In short, it was both not as useful as we needed it to be as well as
> unloved and rejected by many.
>
> The Community Resources team at the Wikimedia Foundation has been thinking
> about replacing that distinction with a more nuanced one, that would be a
> much better fit with our needs, would take into account the actual state of
> editing communities, would consider multiple axes beyond geography, and
> would be less controversial.
>
> We began using the term "emerging communities" two years ago, first as a
> replacement for the term Global South, but it has always been our intention
> to define Emerging Communities ourselves.  Finishing the proposed
> definition took a back seat for a while due to other priorities, but we are
> ready to share the proposed definition today:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Engagement/
> Defining_Emerging_Communities
>
>
> We welcome your thoughts, on the talk page (ideally) or on this thread.
> The definition is already our working definition, but we are open to
> incorporating changes to both wording and substance through October 31st.
>
> Be sure to take a look at the FAQ supplied at the bottom of the page, too.
> :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Asaf
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What kind of ED would you like to see?

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi all,

reading all the above, my 2 cents would be: Internal promotion (in a
broader sense: a current or ex-employee or someone 'close and experienced
enough').

First as interim (as a 'probation period') then if the staff feedback meets
the pre-agreed satisfaction level on agreed key areas, as permanent.

Balazs
2016.02.27. 5:24, "George Herbert"  ezt írta:

> On the Vision thing -
>
> There is a leadership vision, and an organizational/movement vision.
>
> The leader should articulate theirs.  The organizational one needs to come
> from everyone but would likely be articulated by the ED after that process.
>
> George William Herbert
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 26, 2016, at 4:58 PM, Greg Grossmeier  wrote:
> >
> > 
> >> Greg, agree 100%, but that's not how I understood the question and the
> >> results of the staff survey. It seemed the staff expected the vision
> from
> >> the ED/Management.
> >
> > I think you're misinterpreting.
> >
> > The agree/disagree statement was:
> > "Senior leadership at Wikimedia have communicated a vision that
> > motivates me"  (7% agree)
> >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-01-06/News_and_notes#WMF_staff_morale
> >
> > See also, this quote in glassdoor, quoted in the Signpost as well:
> > "The Executive Director unveils a new strategy every three months or
> > so."
> >
> > So, it's not that people wanted the vision solely from the
> > ED/Management, it's that they wanted a not constantly changing one.
> >
> > This is getting off topic, however.
> >
> > The point is, a vision does not need to come from one person, which you
> > agree with. A good vision comes from many people working together
> > collaboratively. Then sticking with it to see it through. Consistency is
> > needed in an ED.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > --
> > | Greg GrossmeierGPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
> > | identi.ca: @gregA18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

[Balázs Viczián]

As long as the "cabal" who "took full control" of Wikimania is capable of
fully organizing it (or able to set up an organizing team anywhere in the
world), I think this is nothing else but a step called: professionalisation.

Actually if it works well, it can bring this event to regions and places
where otherwise it could not be made (i.e. lack of or insufficient or
unreliable local volunteer manpower / no local org / whatever ) reducing
the location problem only to logistics, thus widening the possibilities
greatly.

I would love to see a fix event organizer team, let it be volunteer based
(like the CEE meeting, which was a success) or paid staff (like WMDE has).

Balázs

2015-10-05 15:53 GMT+02:00 Steffen Prößdorf :

> Am 04.10.2015 um 20:06 schrieb Ilario Valdelli:
>
>> On 04.10.2015 19:48, Pavel Richter wrote:
>>
>>> 2015-10-04 17:42 GMT+02:00 Florence Devouard :
>>>
>>> Le 04/10/15 16:15, Theo10011 a écrit :
 Now, beside head rolling... (uh, ouch :)) what do you suggest to fix
 that ?

>>>
>>>
>>> So, what happened? The Wikimania committee came to the conclusion
>>> that the
>>> current process to select the next Wikimania host is broken (and I think
>>> the committee was right about that). So something needed to happen - and
>>> the committee did something that we
>>> ​see ​
>>> not often enough in Wikimedia-land: *they made a decision*.
>>>
>>
>> This is good.
>>
>> But I think that the main point to fix is that a decision is valid as
>> soon it is communicated.
>>
>> At the moment it does not seem that the local communities were
>> informed in order to know that the process was broken.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
> This fits in quite a number of decisions. Better no one can say that
> Wikimania isn't a community event anymore, but a Foundation event instead
> of.
>
> Why asking anyone else?
>
> Fuck the community, who cares?
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2014-15 Wikimedia Fundraising Report

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

This job is pretty impressive, congratulations to the team :)

Is there a per country breakdown available somewhere?

Balázs

2015-10-02 18:56 GMT+02:00 Megan Hernandez :

> Hi Rodrigo,
>
> Thank you for the question and for all your help with the latest Brazil
> campaign!  I've copied your question over to the talk page and replied
> there to keep track of the comments together in one spot.
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fundraising/2014-15_Report#Latin_America_Question
>
> Thanks!
>
> Megan
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 11:38 PM, Rodrigo Padula 
> wrote:
>
> > Excellent report!
> >
> > I'm really impressed with the low level of donations from Latina America.
> >
> > We need to do something to stimulate people to contribute a little bit
> more
> > to our mission.
> >
> > During the first two weeks of the campaign in Brasil, I received a lot of
> > messages from friends requesting information about the Wikipedia banners
> > asking for donations, a lot of people thought that it was spam, spyware
> or
> > something fake. So, I guess the low level of donations from Brasil
> > (specially) can be linked with that issue.
> >
> > In August I started a local effort talking to some journalists regarding
> > the importance of the donations to our movement.
> >
> > I contacted some of our contacts to spread it, and many posts was
> published
> > here regarding the fund-raising campaign, with a really good impact.
> >
> >
> http://bit.blog.br/wikipedia-pede-doacoes-para-ajudar-a-manter-site-no-ar/
> > ( interview replicated on twitter and facebook of
> > http://diariodepernambuco.com.br/ to more than 800.000 followers)
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.gazetadopovo.com.br/vida-e-cidadania/wikipedia-comeca-nova-campanha-de-doacoes-para-manter-site-funcionando-cdlzioae60haolfoz3l6ohm1c
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.tecmundo.com.br/wikipedia/84931-wikipedia-volta-pedir-doacoes-leitores-manter-ar.htm
> >
> >
> >
> http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/tec/2015/08/1670681-wikipedia-comeca-nova-campanha-de-doacoes-para-manter-site-funcionando.shtml
> >
> >
> >
> http://g1.globo.com/tecnologia/noticia/2015/08/wikipedia-pede-doacoes-para-se-manter-independente.html
> >
> > What we can do to help to improve the local level of donations? I'm
> really
> > interested to help with that problem here and our user group can spend
> some
> > time on it, for sure it is something that need some attention.
> >
> > How can I get more information about the donations from Brasil, mainly to
> > identify if after the news published by the local media it improved(or
> not)
> > the level of donations?
> >
> > There are any way to track it?
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Rodrigo Padula
> > Project Manager / User Group Coordinator
> > Wikimedia Brazilian Community User Group of Education and Research
> > http://www.wikimedia.org.br
> >
> > 2015-09-30 22:36 GMT-03:00 Megan Hernandez :
> >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > >
> > > The fundraising team is happy to share the report on the 2014-15 fiscal
> > > year fundraising.  Please take a look at the report
> > > 
> and
> > we
> > > look forward to your feedback on the report talk page
> > > .
> > >
> > > Thank you to Wikimedia volunteers, readers, donors, staff and
> fundraising
> > > team for making this the most successful year yet.
> > >
> > > Megan Hernandez
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Megan Hernandez
> > >
> > > Director of Online Fundraising
> > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > ___
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel

[Balázs Viczián]

My two cents would be that of what evil giant corporations do: move their
departments to the best place possible regarding costs/competition.
Software development in SF, customer service to India :)

For example keeping the sofware somewhere in the Bay Area would keep the
potential to attract highly qualified software guys. While others, for
example grantmaking would do better in my opinion in the old continent
(that is 'Yurp'). In London or Paris or Berlin, you can select from a wide
and deep pool of experts yet still cheaper than SF. Note, about 50-70
percent of the chapters/thorgs/etc. would be within 2-4 hrs of flight and
virtually all would be on a direct flight. Lots of saving on travelling
costs for those that has to travel the most.

You can play with the rest as you wish. Finance for example don't travel
anywhere except the top management (1-2 ppl), so they can be in East St
Louis :)

My British company where I work has its finance in the Czech Republic, and
its IT support in India for instance.

Balazs

2015-04-08 20:29 GMT+02:00 Steven Walling :

> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 9:58 PM Pine W  wrote:
> >
> > Questions:
> >
> > What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its
> current
> > location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for the
> > remodel by the building owner?
> >
> > I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco market
> > area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds, have
> > less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is this
> > being considered?
> >
>
> Keep in mind that the WMF already mitigates the cost and competition of the
> San Francisco Bay Area market by recruiting remote employees.
>
> According to the recent report (
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:State_of_the_Wikimedia_Foundation.pdf
> )
> a large number are based either in other U.S. states or internationally.
> Out of 202 employees, 77% are US-based in 19 states and 23% are based
> abroad in 19 countries.
>
> Combine the remote employees in the U.S. and abroad, I wouldn't be
> surprised if close to half of staff are based remotely. On engineering
> teams especially, it's not uncommon for a majority of employees to be
> remote.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel

[Balázs Viczián]

Relocating within the US or worldwide?

Relocating the whole office or just some departments?

Vince

2015-04-08 7:07 GMT+02:00 Aleksey Bilogur :

> A logistical non-starter! They've got 200+ staff members, any gains to
> recruitment competitiveness will be quickly lost to the drain that losing
> whatever significant percent of the staff that doesn't make the move incurs
> on the organization.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Events and editathons with journalists

[Balázs Viczián]

Wikimedia Hungary did a workshop as well with sport journalists.

What we learnt is to keep it simple (teaching the basics is enough) and
brake it into multiple rounds (we broke it into two rounds - not enough)
and make it interactive (edit together from the first to the last sec).

Hope I helped a bit :)

Balázs
2015.02.27. 0:42, "Winifred Olliff"  ezt írta:

> Hello, Andrea:
>
> This sounds like an interesting project!
>
> Here are some examples that popped into my head right away:
> *CIS (is planning a workshop for journalists as part of Kannada language
> outreach)
> *Wikimedia CH (did some work building a network of journalism schools)
> *Wikimedia Argentina (did at least one workshop for journalists back in
> 2012 in Rosario City)
> *Wikimedia Deutschland (did at least one workshop back in 2013 with
> journalists from ZDF Berlin)
> *The Malayalam community did a workshop for journalists as part of the
> events leading up to their community's 2013 conference
>
> Not sure if everyone I've listed is working on this currently, but these
> groups may have some experience to share. And there must be others I
> haven't listed here! Seems like a good opportunity to share some learning
> patterns on this topic, since I haven't found much there about working with
> journalists! :)  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns
>
> Cheers and best of luck with your project! We look forward to the results.
>
> Winifred
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Andrea Zanni 
> wrote:
>
> > Dear all,
> > I was wondering if anyone, in the Wikimedia movement,
> > has done editathons and wiki-events with *journalists*.
> > In April, Wikimedia Italia will host a workshop at the International
> > Journalism Festival, and we'd welcome tips and suggestions.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Aubrey
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> --
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> Program Officer
> Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Our final email

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

Ok and thanks for the links!

these "cabal cases" are pretty interesting usually.

Balazs

2014-12-29 11:41 GMT+00:00 Fæ :

> Hi Vince,
>
> You can read more at
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Long-term_abuse/India_Against_Corruption_sock-meatfarm
> - note the sentience:
> Tactic as of 2014 has been to launch various claims of copyright
> violation, impersonation, defamation, sexual harassment, paid editing,
> racism, pornography, forgery, and "violations of terms of use"
>
> I recommend taking care to avoid being misled by accounts pretending
> to be established Wikimedians.
>
> Fae
>
>
> On 29 December 2014 at 11:28, Balázs Viczián
>  wrote:
> > I think Fae, that this was plain rude either.
> >
> > Where can I read more about this case?
> >
> > Vince
> >
> > 2014-12-23 8:56 GMT+00:00 Fæ :
> >
> >> On 23 December 2014 at 08:43, Golf Today  >
> >> wrote:
> >> > Attention : LILA TETRIKOV
> >> 
> >>
> >> Thread hijacking is plain rude. As for Joe Jobbing Wikimedians, it is
> >> a despicable and malicious form of cyberbullying.
> >>
> >> Can't someone come up with a way of slapping these prawns down for good?
> >>
> >> Fae
> >> --
> >> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Our final email

[Balázs Viczián]

I think Fae, that this was plain rude either.

Where can I read more about this case?

Vince

2014-12-23 8:56 GMT+00:00 Fæ :

> On 23 December 2014 at 08:43, Golf Today 
> wrote:
> > Attention : LILA TETRIKOV
> 
>
> Thread hijacking is plain rude. As for Joe Jobbing Wikimedians, it is
> a despicable and malicious form of cyberbullying.
>
> Can't someone come up with a way of slapping these prawns down for good?
>
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Magyarország Board Elections

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi all,

WMHU had its general assembly last Saturday where a new board was elected
for the 2014 December - 2016 December period.

Gervai, Péter - president (reelected)
Balogh, Mónika - financial vice president (reelected)
Bihary, Gábor - executive vice president
Gyenes, Orsolya - board member
Mészöly, Tamás - board member

Please join me in congratulating and wishing them a successful term.

Cheers,
Balazs
(the outgoing executive VP of WMHU)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] FDC funds allocation recommendation is up

[Balázs Viczián]

Supporting individual English teachers in rural Poland and reviewing
hundred thousand to million dollar grants from all around the World
are barely comparable to each other if they can be at all, but
definitely can be counted as relevant experience. Anyways I meant to
give an overall positive critic,

I am sorry that you focused on the negative parts only and took it
personal, it was never my intention.

Vince

2014-11-25 18:38 GMT+01:00, Lodewijk :
> I don't think it is very helpful to the discussions that have to be had to
> turn this into a conversation about personal qualifications... Only rarely
> I have seen such a discussion to bear fruit.
>
> The people on the Committee is only a small factor in the whole puzzle -
> the instructions they get, the process and the number of applications has
> at least a similar impact. Let us first discuss what (if anything) should
> be different in the process, in the outcomes, before we even start
> discussing the people.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak 
> wrote:
>
>> Balazs,
>>
>> if you read the link you've just provided, you'd probably notice e.g. the
>> following sentence: "He also has served on the Funds Dissemination
>> Committee of the "English Teaching" program (aimed at improving language
>> skills of English teachers in rural areas of Poland) coordinated by
>> Fundacja Nida from the funds of Polish-American Freedom Foundation over
>> the
>> last 8+ years".
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Balázs Viczián <
>> balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > Dariusz, as you said: it is not on your public FDC profile.
>> >
>> > How should I know all of this about you if it is completely missing
>> > from
>> > there?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Members/Dariusz_Jemielniak
>> >
>> > Vince
>> >
>> > 2014-11-25 15:13 GMT, Dariusz Jemielniak :
>> > > we're clearly looking at different pages. My description indicates 8
>> > years
>> > > of sitting on a funds dissemination committee of Nida Foundation. It
>> > > is
>> > > true that I have not listed my experience on Kopernik Science Center
>> > Board,
>> > > or Interkl@sa, even though I did at the point of candidacy to the
>> > > FDC.
>> > >
>> > > If exactly such experience (sitting on the committee distributing
>> funds)
>> > > does not count, I am not certain what can satisfy your requirements.
>> > >
>> > > Additionally, I believe that your argument is flawed. True, we do
>> > > need
>> > > people with such experience on the FDC, but just as equally we need
>> > people
>> > > with experience from chapter boards, for instance.
>> > >
>> > > best,
>> > >
>> > > dariusz "pundit"
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Balázs Viczián <
>> > balazs.vicz...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Dariusz, I do not feel it is ungrounded at all.
>> > >>
>> > >> If you read carefully, all FDC members (including you) are talking
>> about
>> > >> writing grants (if any), none has written in their profile that they
>> had
>> > >> any specific experience in _reviewing_ them.
>> > >>
>> > >> To keep it simple, I bet you as a professor know the difference
>> between
>> > >> writing tests and reviewing tests written by others :)
>> > >>
>> > >> Vince
>> > >>
>> > >> 2014-11-25 13:25 GMT+00:00 Dariusz Jemielniak :
>> > >>
>> > >>> yes, that I understood, I just believe that your statement that
>> > >>> that
>> > >>> members of the FDC initially had zero or minimal experience needed
>> for
>> > >>> bodies of this sort is basically ungrounded :)
>> > >>>
>> > >>> best,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> dj
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Balázs Viczián
>> > >>> > > >>> > wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>>> Hi,
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> "initial" was meant to refer to the times when th

Re: [Wikimedia-l] FDC funds allocation recommendation is up

[Balázs Viczián]

Dariusz, as you said: it is not on your public FDC profile.

How should I know all of this about you if it is completely missing from there?

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Members/Dariusz_Jemielniak

Vince

2014-11-25 15:13 GMT, Dariusz Jemielniak :
> we're clearly looking at different pages. My description indicates 8 years
> of sitting on a funds dissemination committee of Nida Foundation. It is
> true that I have not listed my experience on Kopernik Science Center Board,
> or Interkl@sa, even though I did at the point of candidacy to the FDC.
>
> If exactly such experience (sitting on the committee distributing funds)
> does not count, I am not certain what can satisfy your requirements.
>
> Additionally, I believe that your argument is flawed. True, we do need
> people with such experience on the FDC, but just as equally we need people
> with experience from chapter boards, for instance.
>
> best,
>
> dariusz "pundit"
>
> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Balázs Viczián 
> wrote:
>
>> Dariusz, I do not feel it is ungrounded at all.
>>
>> If you read carefully, all FDC members (including you) are talking about
>> writing grants (if any), none has written in their profile that they had
>> any specific experience in _reviewing_ them.
>>
>> To keep it simple, I bet you as a professor know the difference between
>> writing tests and reviewing tests written by others :)
>>
>> Vince
>>
>> 2014-11-25 13:25 GMT+00:00 Dariusz Jemielniak :
>>
>>> yes, that I understood, I just believe that your statement that that
>>> members of the FDC initially had zero or minimal experience needed for
>>> bodies of this sort is basically ungrounded :)
>>>
>>> best,
>>>
>>> dj
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Balázs Viczián
>>> >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> "initial" was meant to refer to the times when the FDC (and its
>>>> preceding processes) were set up. Sorry if I was misunderstandable.
>>>>
>>>> Vince
>>>>
>>>> 2014-11-25 13:00 GMT+00:00 Dariusz Jemielniak :
>>>>
>>>>> I mean 50 thousand, which positions the organization I ran at the
>>>>> level
>>>>> of
>>>>> really small chapters in our movement.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not understand your point about stakeholders at all. Are you
>>>>> assuming
>>>>> that the FDC is acting as a WMF proxy?  We are an independent,
>>>>> community-ran body advising to the Board (which, again IS NOT the
>>>>> Foundation).
>>>>>
>>>>> Additionally, we as the FDC, do not require external funding, so your
>>>>> further argument is even more confusing. We're only advising to get it
>>>>> whenever possible, but absolutely accept (a) explanations why it isn't
>>>>> just
>>>>> as well as (b) failed attempts.
>>>>>
>>>>> best,
>>>>>
>>>>> dj "pundit"
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:49 PM, Ilario Valdelli 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > ~50k means 50.000 Euros or 500.000 Euros?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The value is important because cutting 20% or 30% in biggest budget
>>>>> means
>>>>> > to justify that to the stakeholders.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The model that FDC is bringing to the chapters is more complex than
>>>>> > previously because the chapters have to find external funds.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This means that the group of stakeholders has to be enlarged (a
>>>>> > lot).
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I would give you the definition of stakeholders from ITIL: "those
>>>>> > individuals or groups that have an interest in an organization,
>>>>> service or
>>>>> > project and are potentially interested or engaged in the activities,
>>>>> > resources, targets or deliverables".
>>>>> >
>>>>> > WMF is one stakeholders.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The submitters of a project are stakeholders, the members of the
>>>>> > associations are stakeholders, the editor of Wikimedia projects are
>>>>> > stakeholders and so on.
>>>>> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] FDC funds allocation recommendation is up

[Balázs Viczián]

In regards to the original problem brought up by Gerard, FDC is more
or less on its maximum I think.

Its members never did such (or similar) job(s) before FDC (the closest
would be credit checks, but that is like and IEG grant review - it is
pretty far from such a comprehensive grant - technically a
full "business plan" - review)

Despite the little to zero initial experience of its members,
all-volunteer setup and the ever changing circumstances (global goals,
focus points, etc.) and how in general awful it sounds if you say it
out lout that an all-amateur (in the good sense) and inexperienced
group of people are handling
out USD 6 million every year in their free time and for free, it works
pretty well.

Not perfect but you can not demand or expect perfection from such a setup.

That is why there is a whole process now to correct the mistakes that
arise from this "non-professional system", including a dedicated
ombudsperson for the case(s).

I think this is fair enough, the quality of the reviews are visibly
improving from year to year and for the first time there is a real
possibility to fix the mistakes and errors made, like the
"incoherentness" of reviews.

Things from this point could be better only through radical changes to
the system imo.

Balazs

2014-11-25 9:41 GMT, Ilario Valdelli :
> In my opinion the work of the FDC cannot be limited to compare three years,
> to evaluate three budgets and to evaluate three impacts.
>
> I would say that it's *out of context*.
>
> I have had this feeling when I have read that the FDC consider that Amical
> is the best example to follow.
>
> How "to follow"? Amical operates in a different context than other
> chapters. The question that a good example can be *cloned* is surrealistic.
>
> Ok, nothing to say but:
> a) Amical operates in small community where the language is a strong glue
> within the community
> b) Amical has a strong inter-relation Wikimedia projects = organization
> c) Amical has no big internal conflicts generated by external or internal
> questions (may be the opposite)
> d) the territory where Amical operates is relatively small
>
> A good example to compare Amical is with Wikimedia Israel.
>
> I would not speak in the specific case of WM DE but I suggest to look in
> the history of the German projects and in the German chapter and to check
> how many external decisions have had an impact in the German community to
> generate a bias. I don't think that these decisions have been a good
> solution to improve the community participation to the projects.
>
> What I see is that the numbers of editors is decreasing a lot in the
> biggest projects.
>
> It may be caused by a wrong strategy where is privileged the diversity and
> the Global South but without paying attention that the historical
> communities and to the "usual" editors. May be I am wrong but there are
> more online projects becoming attractive for the "potential" editors and
> the change of the target is not producing a real impact.
>
> So it's not a question of comparison of three budget.
>
> If the problem is critical the solution to limit the decreasing is not
> beneficial.
>
> regards
>
>
> Il 24/Nov/2014 19:14 "Sydney Poore"  ha scritto:
>
>> Hi Patrik,
>>
>>
>> During this round of the FDC evaluating the requests, the majority of the
>> organizations that we were looking at had submitted requests to the FDC
>> for
>> the past 3 years. While we have seen improvement around strategic
>> planning,
>> budget planning and evaluation, there is still a great amount of room for
>> improvement from everyone in the wikimedia movement (including the WMF.)
>>
>> If you read the recommendations, FDC is primarily asking the largest
>> organizations to re-evaluate their current capacity to deliver impact to
>> the movement in line with the funds that they are using. In many instances
>> it involves looking at the organizations overall capacity to develop and
>> execute a strategic plan. Because the FDC is making recommendations about
>> unrestricted funds, rather than focusing on a specific project or program,
>> often the reductions in funds is linked to concerns about an organizations
>> capacity to grow (eg., hire and manage more staff, do more complicated
>> projects.)
>>
>>
>> Warm regards,
>>
>> Sydney Poore
>> User:FloNight
>> Member FDC
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics

[Balázs Viczián]

Rupert,

I doubt volunteer accounting is fun; most people actually hate it. Further
mor, most people actually can not do it as it should at all. No wonder this
is a separate profession.

People can discuss your statement that wikipedia is not multinational on
200+ language version wikipedias :)

It is global and it is multinational.

About half of the WMF staff was born and raised (and lived most of their
lives) outside the USA, including the past and the present EDs. Or check
the finance fellows for example :)

Accounting is the core of all activities; try not doing your personal tax
report and you'll see.

Wherever a single penny is changing hands, it has to be reported and
properly accounted. It is not only required by the law everywhere but
required for the sake of transparency and _accountability_

Balázs
2014.11.21. 19:45, "rupert THURNER"  ezt írta:

> While this might sound attracting at a first glance the effect might be
> exactly the opposite what is desired.
>
> First, The wikimedia movement is not multinational like coca Cola which
> just buys what it needs. Wikimedia depends on volunteers. I would never
> donate money if it is not spent on the people sweating for Wikipedia. So
> behaving like a cold money hungry multinational driven by quarterly reports
> poses a reputational risk.
>
> Second, The goal is to target as much money as possible to the mission.
> Invent some non-core effort and then shifting it to a paid resource is
> killing such a goal. The effort should ideally disappear, not being
> outsourced.
>
> And, at the end of the day established (reporting ) standards should be
> easy to follow for everybody, without the need of a "translator ". Just
> like we know well from laws and other standards.
>
> Rupert
> Hmm...I would love to *outsource *financial reporting to WMF together with
> a couple of other tasks as well (program evaluation for example).
>
> Imo the best would be to contact our (that is WM Hungary) accountant
> directly so they can get the data organized as wanted, on time, with
> explanations requested, etc.
>
> In long terms I would love to see a global contract with KPMG (as WMF is
> using them, or another of the big four) where KPMG (or an alternative firm
> if not present there) would take this task over from local chapters.
>
> That would ensure that the data is collected the exact same way (with same
> definitions and methodology used) in every single country, without delays
> or errors in reporting and on the best dates for WMF.
>
> Not to mention that it would decrease the workload of the chapters what I
> think barely if ever happened yet.
>
> Balazs
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi Richard,

I think I was a bit misunderstandable here.

I'm not talking about the local reports but about the "translations" of
them for WMF. I would be more than happy if WMF would do it themselves.
This is what these fellows are doing as of my understanding in the next 6
months.

The bright future for me would be the "automated" version of this: WMF pays
for an accounting firm preferably a "big four" company (Deloitte, KPMG,
Ernst & Young or PriceWaterhouseCoopers) to do the accounting for all the
chapters.

Why?

Because they are present in almost every country in the world.

For small/new chapters and other current and future formations in need to
present an audited statement for the WMF it would be definitely a benefit
to have someone do the job. If they would do the local "regular" accounting
imo it would be even better.

So I have two levels here. One "normal": the local and one "translated" for
WMF. These big firms are capable of doing both. Maybe if we look into that
deeply it can turn out that on a global level we might end up saving on the
accounting costs with such a contract. But that is just my idea, no data to
support it. The fellows will be definitely able to answer such a question
though in six months time.

Balazs

2014-11-21 12:46 GMT+00:00 Richard Symonds :

> Hi Balazs,
>
> This, while at first glance a credible idea, wouldn't work for a number of
> reasons:
>
>- it misunderstands how major accounting firms work. Even if one
>accounting group carried out the work, the people doing the work would
> be
>the local accounting firms (eg KPMG Hungary, KPMG UK). These firms would
>have different methodologies and practices.
>- Some chapters, including WMUK, have a legal responsibility to be
>independent. Having someone else report our finances would jeopardise
> that
>independence.
>- Bigger chapters - and some smaller ones - already have established
>reporting procedures and practices, which in some cases are better than
> the
>WMF's systems. It would be extremely difficult to update our systems
> from
>our own, to WMF-led ones.
>- There would still be delays and errors in reporting - and the dates
>would still change because each country has different tax years (etc).
>- Every organisation measures things differently - we all have different
>cost centres, nominal codes, departments etc - having the WMF come in
> and
>change them would be very difficult and would run the risk of some
>organisations losing accuracy in their reporting (or would run the risk
> of
>having a massively complex system to account for everything). At its
>simplest level, definitions of things like "governance" or "office
> costs"
>vary from country to country. For example, in WMUK, we count general
>postage of letters as office costs, but items that fall under the Royal
>Mail definition of parcels instead come out of the budget for a
> project. If
>you're to have the same reporting for every country, you need to all be
>using the same definition of "parcel"!
>- Finally, every organisation's goals are different - and indeed our
>funding streams are different. WMUK is mostly funded from outside the
>movement, and as a result we are able to use our resources to fund
>non-Wikimedia projects - for example, OpenStreetMap, or OpenCorporates,
> if
>we wanted to. We can even fund political lobbying to a fair degree,
> which
>is something the WMF can't do as easily. This means that the WMF has no
>interest in counting that expenditure, because lobbying for open
> knowledge
>is not a WMF goal in the same way that it's a WMUK goal. It would be
> funded
>without using WMF funds, and would be spent on non-WMF goals.
>
> Very complicated, and I'm sorry to write such a long email, but
> standardising financial systems across continents is a very difficult thing
> to do!
>
> All the best,
>
> Richard Symonds
> Wikimedia UK
> 0207 065 0992
>
> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
> United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
>
> *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
> over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
>
> On 21 November 2014 11:38, Balázs Viczián 
> wrote:
>
> > Hm

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics

[Balázs Viczián]

Hmm...I would love to *outsource *financial reporting to WMF together with
a couple of other tasks as well (program evaluation for example).

Imo the best would be to contact our (that is WM Hungary) accountant
directly so they can get the data organized as wanted, on time, with
explanations requested, etc.

In long terms I would love to see a global contract with KPMG (as WMF is
using them, or another of the big four) where KPMG (or an alternative firm
if not present there) would take this task over from local chapters.

That would ensure that the data is collected the exact same way (with same
definitions and methodology used) in every single country, without delays
or errors in reporting and on the best dates for WMF.

Not to mention that it would decrease the workload of the chapters what I
think barely if ever happened yet.

Balazs
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi all,

what Rubin says I think is that when the decision was made, WMF did not
notify WM RU.

The complete lack of communication.

NOT what was discussed above; that was a complete misunderstanding of his
words.

What Rubin says in my reading is that once WMF made the decision, they
should have

1) analyze what questions and reaction will it generate and identify in
which community(-ies)
2) prepare taylor-made answers for the expected and a reply strategy with
clear guidelines for the unexpected questions (even better: a press-release)
3) notify the affected (WMRU) about the decision, prepare them for the
situation, give them the questions and teach them the answers and the reply
strategy (and probably do the same with other closely knit communities,
like WM UKR) and/or give them the press release
4) only then execute the decision and close the Russian donation channels.

this is imo a pretty clear and reasonable request. Not to say very common
act at large international companies when they for example close a factory
somewhere.

Balázs
2014.11.14. 22:01, "rubin.happy"  ezt írta:

> That's not the first, and even not the 10th attempt of our authorities to
> create own Wikipedia, own YouTube and so on.
>
> They will talk about it, they could even spend some budget but it's not
> likely to result in something that will be sustainable and popular.
>
> PS: I really believed that we will see some sufficient comment from WMF
> about particular reasons, local laws changed that caused such block of
> fundraising, etc. but my trust in WMF is leaving me from day to day. I am
> really disappointed that WMF puts some own interests as a priority and
> ignores questions from the local community of not the smallest project -
> Russian Wikipedia.
>
> Imagine that such user as me who is the oldest 'crat of ru.wiki, has long
> history of contribution to local and global Wikimedia activities, already
> doesn't believe that it was a justified and reasonable decision and not
> political action by WMF. And now imagine what new or inexperienced readers
> and editors in Russia should think when they hear about such an unfriendly
> action from company based in the USA, the country we have not perfect
> relations with at the moment
>
> I am tired of knocking to the closed door, so, let it be as it is, I don't
> care about it anymore: we have local activities, we have sensible editors
> (not only in ru.wiki but also in other projects as comments to this mailing
> list have shown), so, we should work for the overall idea despite some
> existing inefficiencies like WMF.
> 14 нояб. 2014 г. 23:31 пользователь "Federico Leva (Nemo)" <
> nemow...@gmail.com> написал:
>
> > Dorożyński Janusz, 14/11/2014 14:59:
> >
> >> Really, we want help and we can help, especially locals, i.e. Russian
> >> folks.
> >>
> >
> > Too late? It seems the Russian government immediately seized the
> > opportunity of a weaker position of Wikipedia in the public opinion. (You
> > probably already saw, but anyway.)
> >
> http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/11/14/us-russia-wikipedia-alternative-
> > idINKCN0IY1YT20141114
> >
> > They have a habit of sanctions and counter-sanctions by now...
> >
> > Nemo
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference[1] 2015

[Balázs Viczián]

imo (but maybe I'm sitting on the wrong direction on this horse) but once
we have a program it can be installed to any suitable location.

I think it would be great moving that way. WMF and a few chapters have
dedicated people for event organizing, why not use them. Bidding would be
then for _hosting only_, what I am sure would generate dozens of
applications per event.

Not to mention how much easier would it be to keep up the consistency and
the continuity (contentwise) of the events.

Balazs
2014.10.16. 4:24, "Asaf Bartov"  ezt írta:

> Hello, everyone.
>
> Weeks go by, and the previous conversation was throughly derailed, so out
> of a profound interest in ensuring a high-value event, I am bringing this
> up again: we[3] *need to make progress* with planning the
>
> working-meeting-featuring-Wikimedia-affiliates-and-WMF-and-the-WMF-Board-and-AffCom[4],
> whatever we may end up calling it[1].
>
> In the interest of moving on to focus on more substantive issues, and in
> light of there being only a single bid submitted so far[5], may I
> boldly *suggest
> that it be accepted* and that we devote the rest of the time until the
> spring to ensuring the lessons[6] of the previous years be heeded in
> *significant
> preparatory work* by the program team and the affiliates?
>
>Asaf
>
> [1] or whatever we may choose to rename it.  The previous thread was
> successfully killed by the digression into the event's name.  Let's try to
> keep this one on track, and discuss the name ELSEWHERE[2], shall we?
> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Conference_2015
> [3] yes, not all the hundreds of people on this mailing list.  But this is
> still the channel that reaches the greatest number of Wikimedia affiliates.
> [4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2015
> [5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2015/Bids
> [6]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference
> --
> Asaf Bartov
> Wikimedia Foundation 
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Chapters] Recognition of Wikimedia Belgium as a Wikimedia chapter by the WMF Board

[Balázs Viczián]

Congrats from Wikimedia Hungary!

Balázs
2014.09.02. 19:46, "Carlos M. Colina"  ezt írta:

>  Dear all,
>
> It is an honour for me to announce that during Wikimania, the WMF resolved
> [1] to recognise Wikimedia Belgium as a Wikimedia chapter. The resolution
> was made public a few days ago.
>
> The first discussions towards the establishment of a Belgian chapter
> started many years ago, with the local community doing projects related to
> freedom of knowledge since then, like organisation of WLM Belgium &
> Luxembourg in 2011, 2012 and 2013. Along with these and other activities,
> the idea of a chapter grew and evolved to the moment when, the decision was
> taken to start officially the chapter creation process.
>
> This process took longer than usual, due to many reasons, among those the
> change in the chapter approval process by the WMF Board last year.
> Nevertheless, after months of intensive discussion and interaction between
> all parties involved, a recommendation from the AffCom was sent to the WMF
> regarding Wikimedia Belgium. And here we are :-)
>
> Please welcome the newest member of the family of Wikimedia affiliates!
>
> Regards,
> Carlos
>
>
> 1:
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Recognition_of_Wikimedia_Belgium
>
> --
> "*Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee wayuukanairua
> junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka. Ayatashi waya junain."
> Carlos M. Colina
> Vicepresidente, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 |
> www.wikimedia.org.ve 
> Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations Committee
> Phone: +972-52-4869915
> Twitter: @maor_x
>
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> https://intern.wikimedia.ch/lists/listinfo/chapters
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New movement org?

[Balázs Viczián]

how did you find them? (and that fast)

Balazs
2014.08.23. 22:45, "Richard Farmbrough"  ezt írta:

> Note that while it *is* a trademark issue, it isn't *just* a trademark
> issue.
>
>
> On 21 August 2014 18:44, Gregory Varnum  wrote:
>
> > Thank you Richard for bringing this to everyone's attention.
> >
> > So folks know, WMF Legal and the Affiliations Committee are investigating
> > and will be reaching out to the group soon.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > -greg aka varnent
> > Wikimedia Affiliations Committee Vice Chair
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Richard Symonds <
> > richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks all!
> > >
> > > I have passed this over to WMF legal to deal with as it's a trademark
> > > issue.
> > >
> > > Richard Symonds
> > > Wikimedia UK
> > > 0207 065 0992
> > >
> > > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England
> and
> > > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
> Registered
> > > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
> > 4LT.
> > > United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> > > movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation
> (who
> > > operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> > >
> > > *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal
> control
> > > over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
> > >
> > >
> > > On 21 August 2014 17:31, Risker  wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 21 August 2014 12:21, James Forrester 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 21 August 2014 09:13, Nathan  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Richard, any links to where you found this information?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ​The ever-excellent OpenCorporates has its entry:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_mi/71656Y
> > > > >
> > > > > … leading to the official US state of Michigan's entry:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/bcs_corp/dt_corp.asp?id_nbr=71656Y
> > > > >
> > > > > No information about the officers, sadly, just a filing office.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Incorporation documents here:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/bcs_corp/image.asp?FILE_TYPE=ELF&FILE_NAME=D201408\2014224\E0091608.TIF
> > > >
> > > > President:  Scott Perry
> > > > Vice President:  Ann Perry
> > > > Secretary:  Danielle Lewis
> > > >
> > > > Someone else can figure out how to copy/paste.
> > > >
> > > > Risker/Anne
> > > > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Options for the German Wikipedia

[Balázs Viczián]

It seems that poor (and insufficient) communication is a pretty widespread
problem at WMF.

Balazs


2014-08-12 13:25 GMT+02:00 Chris Keating :

> > Does either of you or anyone else see a valid reason to deny this
> > seemingly reasonable and considered request? It's quite obvious that
> hacks
> > to achieve the same ends are far from ideal. Why not simply disable
> > MediaViewer by default on the German Wikipedia, as requested?
> >
>
> In my view, the technical configuration and user experience of WMF wikis
> are areas where community discussion is advisory rather than decisive.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Egypt Wikimedians User Group

[Balázs Viczián]

Let me join the line: Congrats, keep up the good work :)

Balazs from WMHU

2014-07-30 23:35 GMT+01:00 Samir Ibrahim :

> Thanks for your delicate words everyone and thanks a million to Carlos for
> his support.
>
> I hope we can serve and support the Wiki community and the wiki movement
> everywhere, especially in Egypt.
>
> Samir,
> Member and co-founder of Egypt Wikimedians user group.
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia User Group China

[Balázs Viczián]

Congratulations from 匈牙利 ! (hope it will read "Hungary" :) )

Balazs


2014-07-31 10:56 GMT+01:00 Katie Chan :

> Congratulations and 歡迎。
>
>
> On 30 July 2014 22:22, Cristian Consonni  wrote:
>
> > 2014-07-30 19:16 GMT+02:00 Tonmoy Khan :
> > > That's a great news! Congratulations to WM User Group China.
> >
> > Wow! Great news!
> >
> > Cristian
> >
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Katie Chan
> Volunteer Support Organiser
> Wikimedia UK
> +44 (0) 20 7065 0990
> +44 (0) 7885 980 534
>
> PGP Key-ID: 0x483767A3
>
> Wikimedia UK is a Charitable Company registered in England and Wales.
> Registered Company No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
> Registered Office: 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street,
> London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom.
> Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
> Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
> Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
>
> Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
> over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Subject for Wikimedia Hackathon(s) 2014-2015: CoSyne

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

can someone sum up in a few sentences the discussion held on hangout
earlier this week?

Balazs
2014.07.17. 13:57, "Balázs Viczián"  ezt írta:

> Hi,
>
> thanks for the offer :)
>
> It would be highly useful.
>
> Cheers,
> Balazs
>
> 2014-07-14 19:38 GMT+01:00, Frans Grijzenhout :
> > Hi Balázs, WMNL hosted the international hackaton in 2013. Documentation
> is
> > archived and thus still available and we are more than willing to help
> you
> > in preparing the international hackaton in 2015.
> > Regards, Frans
> >
> >
> >
> > *Frans Grijzenhout*, voorzitter / chair
> > fr...@wikimedia.nl
> > +31 6 5333 9499
> > http://www.wikimedia.nl/
> >
> > *Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland*
> > *Postadres*: *Bezoekadres:*
> > Postbus 167   Mariaplaats 3
> > 3500 AD  Utrecht        3511 LH Utrecht
> >
> > ABNAMRO NL33 ABNA 0497164833 - Kamer van Koophandel 17189036
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2014-07-14 16:56 GMT+02:00 Balázs Viczián :
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> WMHU would be interested in *hosting *a Hackathon in Hungary (anywhere)
> >> but
> >> we would need a couple of international volunteers to help filling the
> >> core
> >> of event (finding topics and speakers or building up the content in
> >> general). In exchange, the rest (from side events to the smallest
> details)
> >> can be left with us :)
> >>
> >> Balazs
> >>
> >>
> >> 2014-07-14 14:53 GMT+02:00 Frans Grijzenhout :
> >>
> >> > Hi Romaine, this is to remind you that the CoSyne project was a
> research
> >> > project, sponsored by the EU and conducted by different partners. The
> >> > research has been concluded and the results have been reported early
> >> > 2013..The technical infrastructure has sinds then been dismantled, so
> it
> >> > will not be that easy to restart CoSyne. Regards, Frans
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > *Frans Grijzenhout*, voorzitter / chair
> >> > fr...@wikimedia.nl
> >> > +31 6 5333 9499
> >> > http://www.wikimedia.nl/
> >> >
> >> > *Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland*
> >> > *Postadres*: *Bezoekadres:*
> >> > Postbus 167   Mariaplaats 3
> >> > 3500 AD  Utrecht3511 LH Utrecht
> >> >
> >> > ABNAMRO NL33 ABNA 0497164833 - Kamer van Koophandel 17189036
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 2014-07-09 23:44 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki :
> >> >
> >> > > I doubt if these tools are similar. But I do think they can benefit
> >> from
> >> > > each other.
> >> > >
> >> > > Romaine
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > 2014-07-09 16:03 GMT+02:00 Antoine Musso :
> >> > >
> >> > > > Le 09/07/2014 14:33, Romaine Wiki a écrit :
> >> > > > > As a subject of one/more hackathons I would like to recommend
> >> CoSyne
> >> > > [1].
> >> > > > > CoSyne is translation and multilingual synchronisation tool. The
> >> > > project
> >> > > > > was set up by Wikimedia Netherlands together with several
> >> > universities
> >> > > > and
> >> > > > > other partners, including the EU. The tool makes it possible to
> >> > > translate
> >> > > > > much more easier from one Wikipedia (etc) to another with much
> >> better
> >> > > > > quality translations than existing translating tools. It does
> not
> >> > > matter
> >> > > > if
> >> > > > > an article is already written, it is possible with this tool to
> >> > expand
> >> > > > > existing articles and to update articles with a new section when
> >> > > > > on
> >> > one
> >> > > > > Wikipedia this was added. It makes it possible to exchange
> >> > information
> >> > > in
> >> > > > > more languages and helps users to keep the articles up-to-date.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I have tested the Bèta version of this tool and these tests were
> >> very
> >> > > > > successful.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > &g

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Subject for Wikimedia Hackathon(s) 2014-2015: CoSyne

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

WMHU would be interested in *hosting *a Hackathon in Hungary (anywhere) but
we would need a couple of international volunteers to help filling the core
of event (finding topics and speakers or building up the content in
general). In exchange, the rest (from side events to the smallest details)
can be left with us :)

Balazs


2014-07-14 14:53 GMT+02:00 Frans Grijzenhout :

> Hi Romaine, this is to remind you that the CoSyne project was a research
> project, sponsored by the EU and conducted by different partners. The
> research has been concluded and the results have been reported early
> 2013..The technical infrastructure has sinds then been dismantled, so it
> will not be that easy to restart CoSyne. Regards, Frans
>
>
> *Frans Grijzenhout*, voorzitter / chair
> fr...@wikimedia.nl
> +31 6 5333 9499
> http://www.wikimedia.nl/
>
> *Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland*
> *Postadres*: *Bezoekadres:*
> Postbus 167   Mariaplaats 3
> 3500 AD  Utrecht3511 LH Utrecht
>
> ABNAMRO NL33 ABNA 0497164833 - Kamer van Koophandel 17189036
>
>
>
>
> 2014-07-09 23:44 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki :
>
> > I doubt if these tools are similar. But I do think they can benefit from
> > each other.
> >
> > Romaine
> >
> >
> > 2014-07-09 16:03 GMT+02:00 Antoine Musso :
> >
> > > Le 09/07/2014 14:33, Romaine Wiki a écrit :
> > > > As a subject of one/more hackathons I would like to recommend CoSyne
> > [1].
> > > > CoSyne is translation and multilingual synchronisation tool. The
> > project
> > > > was set up by Wikimedia Netherlands together with several
> universities
> > > and
> > > > other partners, including the EU. The tool makes it possible to
> > translate
> > > > much more easier from one Wikipedia (etc) to another with much better
> > > > quality translations than existing translating tools. It does not
> > matter
> > > if
> > > > an article is already written, it is possible with this tool to
> expand
> > > > existing articles and to update articles with a new section when on
> one
> > > > Wikipedia this was added. It makes it possible to exchange
> information
> > in
> > > > more languages and helps users to keep the articles up-to-date.
> > > >
> > > > I have tested the Bèta version of this tool and these tests were very
> > > > successful.
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/CoSyne
> > > >
> > > > Romaine
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Seems it is very similiar to the content translation Wikimedia i18n
> team
> > > is working on:
> > >
> > > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation
> > >
> > > Demo video:
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:CX_Section_Alignment_Preview_and_Basic_Editing.webm
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Antoine "hashar" Musso
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Interest in a community strategic planning meeting?

[Balázs Viczián]

Bear in mind WikiPedia =/= WikiMedia.

Imo all of the below and about 70-80% of the topics previously brough up in
this thread can be solved/actioned/discussed/amended/etc by the community
solely through Village Pump (or other relevant forums) without a single
person involved (ever) from WMF or any of the chapters.

Balazs

1) exposing missing, confusing, or outdated local policies by using policy

> comparisons cross-wiki
> 2) handling multi-language issues such as highlighting article-for-deletion
> discussions for each language in which the article exists, not just the
> local one
> 3) defining an "embedded system" factor by automatic checking of similarity
> of metadata of articles across languages and projects
> 4) how can we emphasize techniques that attract contributions that are 100%
> non-controversial and fun at the same time?
> 5) how can we organize local x-language meet-up days across the globe using
> our international network of chapters?
> 6) how can we set up a new "Wikicouch" project whereby Wikipedians can
> couch surf (I mean more group editting rather than sleeping) with other
> Wikipedians' across the globe
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Anders Wennersten <
> m...@anderswennersten.se> wrote:
>
> > I am interested in community strategy but have very different topics in
> > mind
> > *how should we handle the 50-100 projects that today in practice are
> dead.
> > They are open for anyone (besides vandals that already infest these) to
> > hi-jack
> > *how should we handle the 5-10 projects that are already hi-jacket and
> > spreading info contradictory to our values? (think belarous wikipedia)
> > *Could we find means to help struggling communitiies, there are several
> > having a hard time neutrilizing POV, internal fight and even having
> problem
> > neutralising vandal attacks
> > *how could we spread best practice to make certain our project do not
> > unnecessary diverge
> > *and the complex of bot generation over several projects - wikidata where
> > efforts for the moment are not harmonized as they ought to
> > etc
> >
> > Anders
> >
> > Pine W skrev 2014-07-14 09:25:
> >
> >  Hi community members,
> >>
> >> I'm wondering how many people might be interested in having an IRC
> meeting
> >> regarding the community's relationship to WMF and potentially developing
> >> our own strategic plan that would be independent of WMF. In the past few
> >> days I've heard some defense of WMF but mainly criticism and pessimism,
> >> especially people recalling past hurts and feeling powerless to
> negotiate
> >> with WMF. Perhaps it's time that we in the community create our own
> >> strategic plan and develop strategic options.
> >>
> >> Please note that this would be a long-term planning meeting and we are
> not
> >> likely to make major decisions, but we would start brainstorming and
> >> laying
> >> some foundations.
> >>
> >> Topics of possible discussion regarding our relationship with WMF:
> >>
> >> 1. Strategic options, such as finding alternative organizations to WMF
> for
> >> hosting Wikimedia sites or creating a new hosting organization that is
> >> aligned with community values.
> >>
> >> 2. Activism at the Board and grassroots levels.
> >>
> >> Topics of possible discussion regarding other strategic issues:
> >>
> >> 3. Internal reform of the community, such as a fresh look at Wikimedia's
> >> founding principles and the Five Pillars, including civility.
> >>
> >> 4. What we can do as a community about our active editor statistics.
> >>
> >> I expect this would be an interesting meeting if people are interested
> in
> >> participating, and I hope that we would brainstorm some ideas about how
> we
> >> want to move forward on all of these questions and others if we have
> time.
> >> If there are many participants, which would be *great*, then we may need
> >> additional meetings or to move the conversation on-wiki.
> >>
> >> If you're interested, you can respond on list but feel free to respond
> to
> >> me off-list also. I'm just trying to get a sense of the interest level
> of
> >> the community. I hear a lot of people being upset but what I feel we
> need
> >> to know is how many people would be interested in creating a long-term
> >> strategic plan and brainstorming strategic options.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Pine
> >> ___
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> >>
> >
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Quality on different language version

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

I guess mgwp is in Malagasy, not Hungarian :)

Cheers,
Balazs

being done.

>
> To ?provoke? I therefor list here my subjective impression after daily
> looking into the different version for 5-15 articles (new ones being
> created on sv.wp) (I list them in order how often I use them to calibrate
> the svwp articles).
>
> enwp- a magnitude better then any other. main weakeness are articles on
> marginal subjects that seems to be allowed to exist there, even if rather
> bad, and without templates (noone cares to patrol these?)
>
> eswp - a very  good version, which in the general discussion are not
> getting appropriate credit
>
> dewp - good when the articles exist, but many serious holes. Is the
> elitist way of running it, discouraging new editors in non obvious subjects
> (that after time passes gets very relevant)?
> frwp - also good, but somewhat scattered quality both in coverage and the
> different articles (even in same subject area)
> nlwp - very good coverage in the geographic subjects, decent quality on
> articles but limited "world" coverage in areas like biographies
> itwp - good articles but a bit italiancentered,
>
> nowp - small but decent articles. Their short focused articletext
> sometimes give more easyaccessed knowledge then an overly long one in other
> languages
>
> ptwp - the real disappointment. it is among the top ten in volume and
> accesses but clearly missing a lot, and even existing articles are uneven.
> I now use it even less then Ukrainian and Russian which I use very seldom
> as the different alphabet makes it hard to understand the article content
>
> (arabic, chinese and japanese I almost never use, too complicated)
>
> (I also use some smaller ones like sqwp and mgwp (hungarian), in these
> versions I have seen serious quality problems not to be found in any of the
> above ones, I am not sure they even have basic patrolling in place)
>
> Anders
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Input needed: Cooperation with zoos?

[Balázs Viczián]

Thanks :)

We spent ~100k HUF on each. That is ~330 EUR or ~$450 per project.

Balazs

2014-05-30 2:04 GMT+02:00 Daniel Mietchen :

> That looks impressive, Balazs - thanks to the Hungarian community!
>
> Daniel
> --
>
> http://www.naturkundemuseum-berlin.de/en/institution/mitarbeiter/mietchen-daniel/
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Daniel_Mietchen/Publications
> http://okfn.org
> http://wikimedia.org
>
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 12:42 AM, Balázs Viczián
>  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I haven't heared any issues with animal treatment in Hungarian zoos
> > (moreover the news I can recall reports continous improvement, like
> > expanding getting renovated/modernised, etc.)
> >
> > I have no idea about the Serbian ones or the rest of the world.
> >
> > We've just completed a QR-project with a zoo in Hungary; it might be
> > interesting for you.
> >
> > Find the documentation (google translator needed as it is in
> > Hungarian-only) here:
> >
> http://hu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikip%C3%A9dia%3AMiskolc-m%C5%B1hely%2FGLAM-ZOO
> >
> > in short: 80 articles were (mostly significantly) improved plus 34 new
> > created (114 articles in total) and the same number of QR codes put out
> and
> > our cooperation won't stop here :)
> >
> > If you're concerned about animal treatment, think about something else
> > then, for example botanical gardens :)
> >
> > Also a QRpedia project, also recently completed, but not finished (as the
> > cooperation will continue beyond mainenance) with the country's largest
> and
> > most prestigeous botanical garden and also Hungarian-only documentation:
> >
> http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:N%C3%B6v%C3%A9nyek_m%C5%B1helye/V%C3%A1cr%C3%A1t%C3%B3t
> >
> > Both were conducted by Wikipedia project groups thus both had a team of
> > editors behind them.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Balazs
> > 2014.05.29. 23:45, "Milos Rancic"  ezt írta:
> >
> >> There is ongoing Microgrants project in Wikimedia Serbia. In brief, we
> >> asked people to give us ideas, so we could talk about them. There are
> >> some interesting ideas and a number of not so relevant.
> >>
> >> We've got the offer to cooperate with one of the zoos from Serbia. At
> >> this moment of time, there is just their idea, nothing more precise.
> >>
> >> Before I proceed with the application (give suggestion to WMRS Board),
> >> I want your input. In reality, I don't know that any zoo is perfect in
> >> relation to the treatment of animals. In reality, it's likely
> >> impossible to check that, as well as animal rights are not that well
> >> protected in Serbia like the case is in, let's say, in the most of EU
> >> countries.
> >>
> >> So, I am interested in prevalent opinion. What's more important to us:
> >> free knowledge or not cooperating with an institution which likely has
> >> issues with the treatment of animals -- the question is just about the
> >> level.
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org
> >
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Input needed: Cooperation with zoos?

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

I haven't heared any issues with animal treatment in Hungarian zoos
(moreover the news I can recall reports continous improvement, like
expanding getting renovated/modernised, etc.)

I have no idea about the Serbian ones or the rest of the world.

We've just completed a QR-project with a zoo in Hungary; it might be
interesting for you.

Find the documentation (google translator needed as it is in
Hungarian-only) here:
http://hu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikip%C3%A9dia%3AMiskolc-m%C5%B1hely%2FGLAM-ZOO

in short: 80 articles were (mostly significantly) improved plus 34 new
created (114 articles in total) and the same number of QR codes put out and
our cooperation won't stop here :)

If you're concerned about animal treatment, think about something else
then, for example botanical gardens :)

Also a QRpedia project, also recently completed, but not finished (as the
cooperation will continue beyond mainenance) with the country's largest and
most prestigeous botanical garden and also Hungarian-only documentation:
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:N%C3%B6v%C3%A9nyek_m%C5%B1helye/V%C3%A1cr%C3%A1t%C3%B3t

Both were conducted by Wikipedia project groups thus both had a team of
editors behind them.

Cheers,
Balazs
2014.05.29. 23:45, "Milos Rancic"  ezt írta:

> There is ongoing Microgrants project in Wikimedia Serbia. In brief, we
> asked people to give us ideas, so we could talk about them. There are
> some interesting ideas and a number of not so relevant.
>
> We've got the offer to cooperate with one of the zoos from Serbia. At
> this moment of time, there is just their idea, nothing more precise.
>
> Before I proceed with the application (give suggestion to WMRS Board),
> I want your input. In reality, I don't know that any zoo is perfect in
> relation to the treatment of animals. In reality, it's likely
> impossible to check that, as well as animal rights are not that well
> protected in Serbia like the case is in, let's say, in the most of EU
> countries.
>
> So, I am interested in prevalent opinion. What's more important to us:
> free knowledge or not cooperating with an institution which likely has
> issues with the treatment of animals -- the question is just about the
> level.
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] FDC staff proposal assessments for 2013-2014 Round 2 are posted

[Balázs Viczián]

>
>
> You may also visit an overview of the financial information presented in
> these proposals, which includes information for all proposals in this
> round:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/Financial_overview
>
>
This page is empty.

Vince
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Organizational development for the Wikimedia movement

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi Salvador, I beleive we have at least three (or more) "basises for
inspiration and future success" already. All started from scratches and all
of them almost completely ignored all previous attempts.

My 2 cents here is to lower the level of such ignorance as much as possible
and build them in into this proposal; at least by pointing out what to
avoid based on their failures (not to mention to learn what could work as
showed popular) to speed up the process

Balazs
2014.04.28. 19:12, "Salvador A"  ezt írta:

> If a topic merge regularly only means that is an overwhelming worry that
> must be solved.
>
> I don't see Chris' proposal as "reinventing the wheel" but as a new attempt
> to give answers to an inconclude question. If past attempts have failed
> that doesn't mean that this one must do it either. Non sequitur. Even if it
> fails it can be the basis or inspiration for a future success. Remember one
> of our principles: Be bold!
>
> The members of AffComm are willing to support any initiative related to
> development of affiliates. Please Chris, feel comfortable asking us
> whatever you need. One of our members will follow up your efforts. Finally,
> we encourage the community to participate.
>
>
> 2014-04-28 11:30 GMT-05:00 Balázs Viczián :
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > pls correct me if I'm wrong, but WCA was aimed to do this (and already
> > collected some materials) but ultimately failed due to the fact that from
> > this basic idea it was quickly developed into an "uber-chapter"-like
> thing,
> > not to mention the other problems.
> >
> > Anyways, I would highly recommend to stop reinventing the wheel every
> year
> > as there are at least 2 or more similar (or like-minded) initiatives from
> > the past years. Plus those that I'm not aware of.
> >
> > Rather collect and merge them into a single proposition as there are
> plenty
> > to learn from their failure than starting again (what you just did btw)
> >
> > Imo.
> >
> > Cheers, Balazs
> > 2014.04.28. 8:30, "Lodewijk"  ezt írta:
> >
> > > Thanks Philippe for the pointer. Sounds like an interesting angle, she
> > has
> > > been hired very recently it seems? I'm looking forward to the slightly
> > more
> > > details description on the user page that is apparently forthcoming :)
> > >
> > > Lodewijk
> > >
> > >
> > > 2014-04-28 4:39 GMT+02:00 Philippe Beaudette :
> > >
> > > > Hi Chris,
> > > >
> > > > Have you approached Anna Stillwell  -
> > > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/User:AStillwell_(WMF) - about
> > this?
> > > >  She seems a natural person to include in your discussions and
> > thinking.
> > > >  Having worked with her some, I think she'll have some real insights
> > for
> > > > you.  :-)
> > > >
> > > > pb
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
> > > > Foundation, Inc.
> > > >  T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  phili...@wikimedia.org  |  :
> > > > @Philippewiki<https://twitter.com/Philippewiki>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Chris Keating
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I've started a page on Meta which I hope will act as a hub for
> > > > > documentation and ideas around the training and development needs
> of
> > > > > Wikimedia movement organisations:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Organisational_development
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd ask anyone who's interested in this kind of thing to have a
> look
> > > and
> > > > > add examples and thoughts for the future.
> > > > >
> > > > > As many people will know from my contributions to this year's and
> > last
> > > > > year's Wikimedia conference, or from the training workshop we held
> in
> > > > > London in early March, this is an issue where I feel the movement
> > (or,
> > > at
> > > > > least, the part of the movement that is involved in movement
> > > > > organisations!) can and should do better.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was interested to read the Signpost coverage of the Wikimedia
> > > > > Conference(1) which evid

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Organizational development for the Wikimedia movement

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi all,

pls correct me if I'm wrong, but WCA was aimed to do this (and already
collected some materials) but ultimately failed due to the fact that from
this basic idea it was quickly developed into an "uber-chapter"-like thing,
not to mention the other problems.

Anyways, I would highly recommend to stop reinventing the wheel every year
as there are at least 2 or more similar (or like-minded) initiatives from
the past years. Plus those that I'm not aware of.

Rather collect and merge them into a single proposition as there are plenty
to learn from their failure than starting again (what you just did btw)

Imo.

Cheers, Balazs
2014.04.28. 8:30, "Lodewijk"  ezt írta:

> Thanks Philippe for the pointer. Sounds like an interesting angle, she has
> been hired very recently it seems? I'm looking forward to the slightly more
> details description on the user page that is apparently forthcoming :)
>
> Lodewijk
>
>
> 2014-04-28 4:39 GMT+02:00 Philippe Beaudette :
>
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > Have you approached Anna Stillwell  -
> > https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/User:AStillwell_(WMF) - about this?
> >  She seems a natural person to include in your discussions and thinking.
> >  Having worked with her some, I think she'll have some real insights for
> > you.  :-)
> >
> > pb
> >
> >
> > *Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
> > Foundation, Inc.
> >  T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  phili...@wikimedia.org  |  :
> > @Philippewiki
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Chris Keating
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I've started a page on Meta which I hope will act as a hub for
> > > documentation and ideas around the training and development needs of
> > > Wikimedia movement organisations:
> > >
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Organisational_development
> > >
> > > I'd ask anyone who's interested in this kind of thing to have a look
> and
> > > add examples and thoughts for the future.
> > >
> > > As many people will know from my contributions to this year's and last
> > > year's Wikimedia conference, or from the training workshop we held in
> > > London in early March, this is an issue where I feel the movement (or,
> at
> > > least, the part of the movement that is involved in movement
> > > organisations!) can and should do better.
> > >
> > > I was interested to read the Signpost coverage of the Wikimedia
> > > Conference(1) which evidently comes from a similar point of view!
> > >
> > > We are slightly hampered by the fact that there is no single body
> > > responsible for doing this kind of training and development work, so I
> > > would invite everyone with a stake in this (WMF, FDC, AffCom, Chapters,
> > > Thorgs, User Groups, interested individuals) to treat this as something
> > > where everyone can play a role in sharing experience, scoping out the
> way
> > > forward, and building a better way of doing this for the future!
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > (1)
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-04-23/Special_report
> > > ___
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> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Assessing this round of FDC proposals, including the WMF's proposal

[Balázs Viczián]

imo WMF is a mid-to-large sized IT company operating on a non-pofit basis.

Whoever has _both_ the skillset (and history) of reviewing IT companies and
charities, both types above 100+ employees can be considered capable of
reviewing WMF as a whole.

Cheers,
Balazs
2014.04.25. 21:17, "Michael Peel"  ezt írta:

> Hi Risker,
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
>
> > Instead I suggest that the FDC seek authorization from the Board for an
> > independent third party review if it feels that there is not the
> necessary
> > ability for the FDC to produce its own assessment.
>
> I'm personally curious to know whether you have any suggestions of third
> parties that might be able to carry out this sort of review, considering
> the requisite knowledge of the Wikimedia movement? It might be an option
> worth thinking about in future years.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] How Wikimedia could help languages to survive

[Balázs Viczián]

imo there are a whole bunch of organizations and projects much better aimed
and developed towards this question; I'd rather map them and contact the
most developed ones instead of reinventing the wheel.

Cheers,
Balazs

PS: This "because we can" reasoning is very very thin btw. (source?)

2014-04-20 5:46 GMT+02:00 Milos Rancic :

> There are ~6000 languages in the world and around 3000 of them have
> more than 10,000 speakers.
>
> That approximation has some issues, but they are compensated by the
> ambiguity of the opposition. Ethnologue is not the best place to find
> precise data about the languages and it could count as languages just
> close varieties of one language, but it also doesn't count some other
> languages. Not all of the languages with 10,000 or more speakers have
> positive attitude toward their languages, but there are languages with
> smaller number of speakers with very positive attitude toward their
> own language.
>
> So, that number is what we could count as the realistic "final" number
> of the language editions of Wikimedia projects. At the moment, we have
> less than 300 language editions.
>
> * * *
>
> There is the question: Why should we do that? The answer is clear to
> me: Because we can.
>
> Yes, there are maybe more specific organizations which could do that,
> but it's not about expertise, but about ability. Fortunately, we don't
> need to search for historical examples for comparisons; the Internet
> is good enough.
>
> I still remember infographic of the time while all of us thought that
> Flickr is the place for images. It turned out that the biggest
> repository of images is actually Facebook, which had hundred times
> more of them than the Twitpic at the second place, which, in turn, had
> hundred times more of images than Flickr.
>
> In other words, the purpose of something and general perception of its
> purpose is not enough for doing good job. As well as comparisons
> between mismanaged internet projects and mismanaged traditional
> scientific and educational organizations are numerous.
>
> At this point of time Wikimedia all necessary capacities -- and even a
> will to take that job. So, we should start doing that, finally :)
>
> * * *
>
> There is also the question: How can we do that? In short, because of
> Wikipedia.
>
> I announced Microgrants project of Wikimedia Serbia yesterday. To be
> honest, we have very low expectations. When I said to Filip that I
> want to have 10 active community members after the project, he said
> that I am overambitious. Yes, I am.
>
> But ten hours later I've got the first response and I was very
> positively surprised by a lot of things. The most relevant for this
> story is that a person from a city in Serbia proper is very
> enthusiastic about Wikipedia and contributing to it (and organizing
> contributors in the area). I didn't hear that for years! (Maybe I was
> just too pessimistic because of my obsession with statistics.)
>
> Keeping in mind her position (she said that she was always complaining
> about lack of material on Serbian Wikipedia, although at this point of
> time it's the encyclopedia in Serbian with the most relevant content)
> and her enthusiasm, I am completely sure that many speakers of many
> small languages are dreaming from time to time to have Wikipedia in
> their native language.
>
> Like in the case of a Serbian from the fifth or sixth largest city in
> Serbia, I am sure that they just don't know how to do that. So, it's
> up to us to reach them.
>
> English Wikipedia has some influences on contemporary English language
> ("citation needed", let's say). It has more influences on languages
> with smaller number of speakers, like Serbian is (Cyrillic/Latin
> cultural war in Serbia was over at the moment when Serbian Wikipedia
> implemented transliteration engine; it's no issue now, while it was
> the issue up to mid 2000s).
>
> But it's about well developed languages in the cultural sense. What
> about not that developed ones? While I don't have an example of the
> effects (anyone, please?), counting the amount of the written
> materials in some languages, Wikipedia will (or already has) become
> the biggest book, sometimes the biggest library in that language; in
> some cases Wikipedia will create the majority of texts written in
> particular language!
>
> While we think about Wikipedia as valuable resource for learning about
> wide range of the topics, significance of Wikipedia for those peoples
> would be much higher. If we do the job, there will be many monuments
> to Wikipedia all over the world, because Wikipedia would preserve many
> cultures, not just the languages.
>
> * * *
>
> There is the question "How?", at the end. There are numerous of
> possible ways and there are also some tries to do that, but we have to
> create the plan how to do that systematically, well, according to our
> principles and goals and according to the reality.
>
> What we know from our previous experiences:
>
> * The nu

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Funding of decentralized organizational structure

[Balázs Viczián]

Imo having a centralized funding model is very good against corruption (we
had a couple of cases already and unfortunately we will some in the future)

As a side comment, it would be nice if we could learn the total
donations/country figures ( for example: Hungary 2013: $12,345.67) If this
info is already public then sorry, I was unable to locate it myself.

Balazs

2014-04-10 16:20 GMT+02:00 :

> Hi,
>
> > Message du 10/04/14 15:28
> > De : "Anders Wennersten"
> > A : wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Copie à :
> > Objet : Re: [Wikimedia-l] Funding of decentralized organizational
> structure
> >
> (...)
> And I would be unhappy if the divergence between project became too big,
> POV paid editing etc we will be stronger as a totality if we abide to the
> same base guidelines So I question your urge and need to decentralize. For
> am as a contributer the most important part is that I know my inputs is
> securely stored and will not be misused by actors like google or plain
> advertising. And for this reason I believe in a centralized structure as
> about today (for now) Anders
>
> I don't tink that Ting Chen is disputing that the WMF should keep the core
> work. Yet the core work may mean about 20% of the movement resources
> instead of 90%...
>
> Mathias
> [[User:Astirmays]]
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

[Balázs Viczián]

Imo the lines were said by a member of a board of a chapter in her official
capacity as she was attending a board training paid fully by the "global
community" (unless she paid everything on her own and never got reimbursed
for anything)

If you keep up with this approach (which will for sure culminate in actions
clearly ignoring/"fucking" the community) in one day you will reach the
point when the community will say "so, then fuck you too".

Obviously not today, neither tomorrow, but when it comes, that day will be
the last day, when you were able to "buy free stuff" or travel around the
world for "free" or in short: have money. Until that day comes it is true
that this is not an issue, you can get away with it, 'nuff said.

The main issue here are her solution(s) to problem solving/fulfilling the
"mission". Even worse that a handful of people supports it in this thread,
namely a) spending money or b) spending more money. This is very poor/lazy
thinking.

Those having these two only in mind (or as primary solutions), should leave
their chapter positions for more creative people.

Cheers,

Vince

PS: this thread strenghtens my impression [1] that some chapters are rather
breakaway groups than (integral) parts of their local community.

[1]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AFuture_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference&diff=5611433&oldid=5611349


2014.04.08. 12:21, "Gerard Meijssen"  ezt írta:

> Hoi,
> One reason is that the license of Wikidata is questioned by members of the
> Wikidata community.
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
>
> On 8 April 2014 11:27, Martijn Hoekstra  wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Gerard Meijssen
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hoi,
> > > From where I stand ie Wikidata, the license we use is CC-0. When a GLAM
> > > wants to share data it has to be CC-0. When it is CC-by or CC-by-sa, we
> > > cannot use it. We do not retrieve it from their database we will find
> the
> > > same data from elsewhere where there is no such burden.
> > >
> > > When people use CC-by-sa data in for instance Wikipedia, we do harvest
> > that
> > > information because once it is embedded in Wikipedia, it is no longer
> > part
> > > of the original database that prohibits us from using it based on the
> > > database rights. At that point it is part of a completely different set
> > of
> > > information. It is retrieved one factoid at a time and the origin of
> the
> > > data is no longer an issue.
> > > Thanks,
> > >   GerardM
> > >
> >
> > Why are we talking about the license of Wikidata in this thread?
> >
> > Come to think of it, why are we still talking at all in this thread?
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8 April 2014 10:40, Jane Darnell  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Gerard,
> > > > I think you mean "There are organisations that want to share CC-0
> > > > information with us under a CC-0 license and there are those who want
> > > > to share CC-0 information under a CC-by
> > > > license." We are fine with organizations sharing CC-by information
> > > > under a CC-by license, no?
> > > >
> > > > O and I agree completely on the Wikidata thing.
> > > >
> > > > Jane
> > > > PS: I also agree that the person who said these words is, in fact a
> > > > member of the community like the rest of us and therefore has every
> > > > right to use those words in a meeting during which community issues
> > > > are being discussed. I have heard worse in discussions by members of
> > > > one part of the community (Commons people) talking about other
> members
> > > > of the community (Dutch Wikipedians) and the other way around. Maybe
> > > > it's a cultural thing and we swear a lot in our internal meetups in
> > > > the Netherlands, dunno about that, but I never felt offended when I
> > > > heard these statements and in context have agreed with both parties.
> > > >
> > > > 2014-04-08 8:22 GMT+02:00, Gerard Meijssen <
> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
> > >:
> > > > > Hoi,
> > > > > Take one step back. What our aim is, is to share in the sum of all
> > > > > knowledge. Arguably, this is the main and overriding objective of
> > what
> > > we
> > > > > do. There are many strategies to get to the point where we share
> > > > > information. From where I stand, with Wikidata we have the
> > opportunity
> > > to
> > > > > do better than with an only Wikipedia strategy: with Wikipedia we
> > share
> > > > the
> > > > > sum of knowledge that is available in one Wikipedia and with
> Wikidata
> > > we
> > > > > share in the sum of all the knowledge that is available to us.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wikidata provides access to more information than any Wikipedia by
> a
> > > > large
> > > > > margin.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are those in our communities who aim to restrict the
> practices
> > > that
> > > > > realise Wikidata as the resource of information that is available
> to
> > > us.
> > > > To
> > > > > say it in a political correct way, they can be and should be
> ignored.
> > > > There
> > > > > are organisations that want to share 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose of WMConf ( was: Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014)

[Balázs Viczián]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AFuture_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference&diff=5611433&oldid=5611349

imo.

Vince



2014-04-02 20:32 GMT+02:00 Cornelius Kibelka :

> Yes, finally the discussion we need!  Pity that it happens only one week
> before the conference itself.
>
> My point of view:
> We have different types of conference: GLAMCamp, EduWiki, Wikimania,
> whatever.
>
> Beside Wikimania, which is quite a "fruit salad" of topics and themes and
> seen as *the* gathering of the global Wikimedia community, all of thoses
> confereces have quite a special, limited scope. I see the Wikimedia
> Conference as the highly political, meta level conference. This is the only
> meeting in the year where we can discuss governance, strategy, movement
> politics issues only, excluding all the programmatic work. As it is the
> only meeting of this type during the year, at least a part of the programme
> team tried to keep all the sessions in this meta scope. We felt a need for
> those topics, which can't be discussed at those other meetings.
>
> Obviously, it doesn't seem to be so clear for many people. Maybe the
> majority even thinks that we don't even need that type of conference. Who
> knows.., all discussion adressing this issue fizzled out in the last three
> past.
>
> However, please think about this! It's important. At the conference we'll
> have a special session about this, the session is called actually "Future
> of the Wikimedia Conference". We need input from everyone to see how we
> should continue and what should happen next year.
>
> Best
> Cornelius
>
> 
> Cornelius Kibelka
>
> Twitter: @jaancornelius
> Mobile:+351-91-9860232 (Vodafone PT)
> German number currently offline
>
>
>
>
> On 2 April 2014 19:16, Chris Keating  wrote:
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am genuinely puzzled as to why, if nobody on the WMUK board (such as
> > > the CEO or the current Chairman) is sure what the purpose of the
> > > conference is, they should chose to invest the donor's money in
> > > sending 5 trustees and 3 full time employees to it (presumably the
> > > employees are being paid for their time rather than going as
> > > volunteers).
> > >
> > >
> > Just to be clear, I know what the benefits we will get out of it are,
> and I
> > can tell you the direction that I would like the conference to take in
> > future; I'm just wondering whether others have the same perception.
> >
> > This is not a new question, as Nathan has pointed out, and he is probably
> > right to say it is best to continue it here;
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference
> >
> > Chris
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Extensive feedback from WMDE to the FDC process

[Balázs Viczián]

My five cents here would be that how about considering longer time frames
for grants, like 2-3-5 years (I was too tired to understandably explain
this yesterday to Anasuya)

Here in Hungary individuals can offer 1% of their income tax to nonprofit
organizations (these are accounted and transferred to the nonprofits by the
state) These funds must be spent within 3 years (so not 1 but 3) from their
reception (unused funds has to be transferred back at the end of the 3rd
year).

Cheers,
Vince

*Balazs Viczian*
Executive Vice President
*Wikimédia Magyarország Egyesület*

Tel: +36 70 633 6372
Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazin
Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia 


2014/1/17 Anders Wennersten 

> While I believe the "FDC process" by now is well understood and
> communicated, I feel the understanding of the actual group, "FDC" and the
> deliberation we perform is less well understood (and communicated)
>
> And if WMDE feedback will be elaborated upon, I think it will be of value
> understanding "FDC" and the deliberation process and I have therefor put
> down a short description of this on the talkpage, based on my own
> experience as one of its member (1)
>
> I see very much in this feedback related to the prerequisites to the FDC,
> not how we have implemented our inputs into recommendations. Also I think
> some of the wanted more detailed feedback and interaction with the FDC as a
> group is very hard to implement considering how our deliberation process
> for now is set up .  But feedback is always a good thing and hopefully this
> feedback can be processed to improve the process and give all involved a
> happier feeling of the funds dissemination in the future.
>
> Anders
>
> (1) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/FDC_
> portal/Comments/Extensive_feedback_from_WMDE_to_the_FDC_
> process#FDC_as_a_group
>
> Pavel Richter skrev 2014-01-15 17:36:
>
>  Hello everybody,
>>
>> I have just posted an extensive feedback from WMDE on the FDC process here
>> on meta:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/FDC_portal/
>> Comments/Extensive_feedback_from_WMDE_to_the_FDC_process
>>
>> The statement was drafted by WMDE's Supervisory Board and myself.
>>
>> We are very much looking forward to a discussion and I would like to
>> encourage everybody to share their thoughts. At the same it would be great
>> if we could keep the discussion on meta so that we have everything in one
>> place.
>>
>> All the Best,
>>
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>
>> Pavel Richter
>> Vorstand
>>
>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
>> Tel.: +49 - 30 - 219 158 260
>> Twitter: @pavel
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Basic income & Wikimedians

[Balázs Viczián]

I like such proposals (sarcasm).

where do you get the money from, what you wish to distribute?

In general free money -> less people will work (why to work if I still get
money? - see the masses living on unemployment benefits - libre time :) )
-> less people working -> higher taxes -> people will be :( on both ends.
Higher minimum! Lower taxes! Down with the government! Yay.

Printing money would lead to inflation - more money worth less.

And these are the basic, most visible IRL effects.

Pls forget these economical nonsenses.

Cheers,
Vince


2014/1/9 Risker 

> I'd suggest that income is not a particularly significant factor in whether
> or not people participate in the Wikimedia movement, particularly as
> editors.  Infrastructure including internet access, education, and
> availability of technology are far more significant.
>
> These are all abundantly available in Europe, where we have probably the
> highest concentration of editors per capita (with the possible exception of
> the US).
>
> In fact, I can't help wondering how a discussion of a European basic
> minimum income really comes across to our colleagues who live in countries
> where daily wages are the equivalent of the cost of a cup of coffee and
> a pastry in most of Europe, North America, and other "wealthy"
> countries.  It's bothering me, and I live in one of those well to do
> countries.
>
> Risker
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Registration open for Chapter Board workshop

[Balázs Viczián]

Well, this answer should be amongst the "how not" examples, worthy having
an own topic itself.

Another topic not related to the event but highly relevant for the "answer"
from Chris: "freebies". Obvious issue never spoken of.

This event can be held anywhere in the world as long as it is "free" for
the participants (no own money spent), you'll always have full house. You
don't really need anything else than covering expenses. No problem with
last minute programming, declined WMF funding or whatever. Expenses
covered? They'll be there.

Cheers,
Balazs

2013/12/6 Chris Keating 

> Thanks Balazs! All 20 spaces on the workshop are now taken. :)
>
>
> On 6 Dec 2013 18:48, "Balázs Viczián"  wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > As this event supposed to target guys like me, let me give you a short
> > feedback about the program.
> >
> > I see nothing practical, nothing useful in it. It is full of defining
> this,
> > defining that sessions. And they are extremely long.
> >
> > Not a word about financial planning, not a word about community
> management
> > (as "chapter's community") nothing about volunteer recruitement, not a
> word
> > about negotiating (as negotiating skills, including convincing techniques
> > and other related knowledge) cost management (cost cutting, replanning),
> > managerial approaches and attitudes (managerial skills and styles, best
> > practices), etc. etc. The line is long.
> >
> > I see no practical skills discussed, except if the aim is to make us able
> > to discuss chapter-related __theoretical__ things in a much deeper way
> than
> > before. Ever. Nice to have clear visions for the future though but what
> > this event covers is about 20% of what is called "management" altough I
> had
> > to admit, it is the most interesting 20%. For me too.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Balazs
> >
> > *Balazs Viczian*
> > Executive Vice President
> > *Wikimédia Magyarország Egyesület*
> >
> > Tel: +36 70 633 6372
> > Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
> > Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazin<
> > http://huwiki.blogspot.hu>
> > Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia <https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia>
> >
> >
> > 2013/12/6 Chris Keating 
> >
> > > Hi Laura,
> > >
> > > Actually I hope both larger and smaller organisations will gain from
> this
> > > event. Larger organisations' boards certainly need training and support
> > as
> > > much as smaller ones, though there are different challenges at
> different
> > > stages of development.
> > >
> > > I'm pleased to say of the people who have registered so far there is a
> > > broad mixture from three continents and I hope we will be able to fund
> as
> > > many people as possible.
> > >
> > > It would certainly be great if there was more support available for
> > > organisations just starting out, available for free. So far as I know,
> > > no-one has ever taken a synoptic look at the support and development
> > needs
> > > of Wikimedia movement organisations and tried to work out how to meet
> > them.
> > > Who might take that on and how it might be funded is an open question.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Chris
> > > Hi Chris,
> > >
> > > If there is only one Wikimedia Foundation board recognised thematic
> > > organization, why did you chose to use a plural?  And The Wikinewsie
> > Group
> > > has aff-comm recognition, and as the Board has never rejected an
> aff-comm
> > > recommendation, I don't particularly see the problem.
> > >
> > > What I do see as problematic is WM-UK organizing this conference,
> talking
> > > about chapters moving towards professionalism in the context of the
> > > Wikimedia Movement while charging chapters and a thematic organization
> to
> > > attend, selecting a hotel for participants to stay at that costs above
> > the
> > > per diem rate that the WMF funds for, and then saying there is the
> > > expectation that it will not be an issue for people to attend with the
> > high
> > > registration fee and high accomodation costs because these will not be
> > > incurred by individuals but by their organizations.
> > >
> > > As the Movement appears to be having a discussion about finacial
> > > responsibility and effect use of donor funds, that sort of approach
> > appear

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Registration open for Chapter Board workshop

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi all,

As this event supposed to target guys like me, let me give you a short
feedback about the program.

I see nothing practical, nothing useful in it. It is full of defining this,
defining that sessions. And they are extremely long.

Not a word about financial planning, not a word about community management
(as "chapter's community") nothing about volunteer recruitement, not a word
about negotiating (as negotiating skills, including convincing techniques
and other related knowledge) cost management (cost cutting, replanning),
managerial approaches and attitudes (managerial skills and styles, best
practices), etc. etc. The line is long.

I see no practical skills discussed, except if the aim is to make us able
to discuss chapter-related __theoretical__ things in a much deeper way than
before. Ever. Nice to have clear visions for the future though but what
this event covers is about 20% of what is called "management" altough I had
to admit, it is the most interesting 20%. For me too.

Cheers,
Balazs

*Balazs Viczian*
Executive Vice President
*Wikimédia Magyarország Egyesület*

Tel: +36 70 633 6372
Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazin
Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia 


2013/12/6 Chris Keating 

> Hi Laura,
>
> Actually I hope both larger and smaller organisations will gain from this
> event. Larger organisations' boards certainly need training and support as
> much as smaller ones, though there are different challenges at different
> stages of development.
>
> I'm pleased to say of the people who have registered so far there is a
> broad mixture from three continents and I hope we will be able to fund as
> many people as possible.
>
> It would certainly be great if there was more support available for
> organisations just starting out, available for free. So far as I know,
> no-one has ever taken a synoptic look at the support and development needs
> of Wikimedia movement organisations and tried to work out how to meet them.
> Who might take that on and how it might be funded is an open question.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
> Hi Chris,
>
> If there is only one Wikimedia Foundation board recognised thematic
> organization, why did you chose to use a plural?  And The Wikinewsie Group
> has aff-comm recognition, and as the Board has never rejected an aff-comm
> recommendation, I don't particularly see the problem.
>
> What I do see as problematic is WM-UK organizing this conference, talking
> about chapters moving towards professionalism in the context of the
> Wikimedia Movement while charging chapters and a thematic organization to
> attend, selecting a hotel for participants to stay at that costs above the
> per diem rate that the WMF funds for, and then saying there is the
> expectation that it will not be an issue for people to attend with the high
> registration fee and high accomodation costs because these will not be
> incurred by individuals but by their organizations.
>
> As the Movement appears to be having a discussion about finacial
> responsibility and effect use of donor funds, that sort of approach appears
> to run counter to all of that.  No explanation other than "We talked down
> the price!" appears to have been forth coming as to why a place was
> selected that costs roughly USD$200 a night.  There is no agenda for this
> conference to understand why the conference is worth that expensive costs.
>  The people presenting clearly are not in need of the conference as it is
> Wikimedia UK, Wikimedia DE, Wikimedia PL, Wikimedia France.  These are by
> and large the chapters with FDC funding or access to independent sources of
> funding.  They are clearly not being targetted for training.  The people
> who appear to be targetted as attendees are ones who have no money... and
> you're off to charge them large amounts.
>
> I don't see how these costs, which you expect to be absorbed by donor
> funds, are a good use of those funds.  I don't see how expecting people to
> incur expenses over around USD$850 to attend a two day conference ($400 for
> two nights, $65 for registration, $230 for a flight from somewhere close in
> Europe, $50 to get to the event from the airport, $100 in food) where the
> thing starts out by violating WMF guidelines.
>
> What knowledge exactly are you planning to pass on to people from less
> developed chapters?  Fiscal responsibility, best use of donor funds,
> following WMF's best practices for grant funding...  These are off the
> table?  What else is there?
>
> Sincerely,
> Laura Hale
>
> On Friday, December 6, 2013, Chris Keating wrote:
>
> > Hi Laura, you can bypass the registration fee by selecting "other payment
> > option" in the way I said.
> >
> > In response to another off list query, I should point out that
> > unfortunately this workshop is only open to existing (incorporated &
> > recognised) chapters/thorgs, not those still in planning or awaiting
> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who will host Wikimedia Conference 2014? Bidding process is open!

[Balázs Viczián]

I wrote a sort of a programme proposal on the talk page in June. If nothing
else comes up, you may take that as a basis to start the discussion from
somewhere.

Find it under "content".

Cheers,
Balazs
User:Vince

2013/10/2 Nicole Ebber 

> Hey Chris,
>
> it's all on meta. I was hoping for someone to pick up this topic and
> call for members.
>
> Here we go, anyone interested in working on the heart of the
> conference – the programme?
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference#Programme_team
>
> (I thought programme team sounded a bit more suitable then committee. ;))
>
> Cheers,
> Nicole
>
> On 30 September 2013 21:02, Chris Keating 
> wrote:
> > Indeed! Given that a while back people were asking whether this
> conference
> > would happen *at all* it is very good to see that there are four chapters
> > willing to host. Many thanks to Germany, Sweden, India and Italy. :-)
> >
> > I am not sure whether anyone has called for a "programme committee" or
> > similar yet - is that part of the process?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Chris
> > Wikimedia UK Chair
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Cristian Consonni
> > wrote:
> >
> >> ... and there's also Italy!
> >>
> >> WM-IT wants to put to good use the 2013's experience, so here's our
> >> application:
> >>
> >>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference#Application_4:_WMI
> >>
> >> (also, the venue for this WMConf is very close to the location of this
> >> bid for Wikimania[1], the bid as been started by some WM-IT and the
> >> chapter as a whole will a vote to officially support the bid during
> >> the General Assembly on October 19th, 2013)
> >>
> >> Four bids, exciting!
> >>
> >> Cristian
> >> [1]
> >>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015_bids/Lake_Como_(Esino_Lario)
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> 
> >>
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
>
>
> --
> Nicole Ebber
> International Affairs
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0
>
> http://wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who will host Wikimedia Conference 2014? Bidding process is open!

[Balázs Viczián]

You;re still not getting my point so let me reword myself: I'm debating
wheter specifically this event (in its current form, as it seemingly lacks
general interest plus turns into a 'mini Wikimania') is the best way for
that what Jon says; no argument against wheter it is necessary or not.

Small, dedicated workshops are usually have more success and value than
such general conferences. Also, I saw many arguments that these
unscheduled, here-and-there advertised thematic meetups (paralel to the
main body of the conference) were more useful and fruitful than the main
body. A lot of guys holding 'important' positions are usually missing the
main body of the event at all due to these. Then why to stick to a
conference? Set up workshops: you may put them paralell if you want for
cost effectiveness. (for example 3 days, 6 workshops in two streams)

Balazs


2013/9/20 Craig Franklin 

> Hi,
>
> A few people asked me with varying degrees of seriousness about this in
> Hong Kong, so I'll just put this out there and say that Wikimedia Australia
> will not be in a position to host this event in 2014.
>
> Regards,
> Craig Franklin
> President - Wikimedia Australia
>
>
> On 16 September 2013 22:11, Nicole Ebber 
> wrote:
>
> > Dear Wikimedia friends,
> >
> > following up on the emails Asaf and I sent a few weeks ago, I have now
> > drafted the bidding process to decide upon the location for next
> > year’s Wikimedia Conference. This event will not only host the annual
> > Chapters’/Affiliates’ conference, but also the WMF board, FDC and
> > AffCom meetings and is meant to take place in April 2014 (tbc).
> >
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference#Bidding_process_for_hosting_the_next_Wikimedia_Conference
> >
> > == LOCATION COMMITTEE ==
> > I would like to see a small location committee (3 representatives of
> > affiliates, 1 AffCom and 1 WMF) to decide about the hosting chapter.
> > Asaf and Bence already agreed upon joining the committee, and it would
> > be nice to see someone from WMIT there, as they have the freshest
> > experience. So if you have severe experience with conference
> > organisation, please consider joining the committee now!
> >
> > == WANNA HOST WMCON 2014? ==
> > All chapters who are interested in organising the conference in 2014
> > are invited to place a short bid on Meta. The bids should be made
> > until 30 September, a decision should be available before 15 October.
> > The winning organisation will be responsible for all the logistics, as
> > in: venue, catering, travel and visa arrangements, accommodation,
> > technical equipment, social events, communication with and support for
> > the participants, coordination with the programme committee and the
> > facilitators.
> >
> > I hope that if we can take the logistics and location for granted,
> > this will help us focus on the content and sustainability of the
> > event. I have written more about the programme part on Meta.
> >
> > Thanks to Asaf and Bence for giving their valuable input to the set-up
> > of this process. Since WMDE has kind of a traditional interest in
> > having a good conference, I am happy to take a leading role in
> > organising this process. Any help is highly appreciated! I am looking
> > forward to an exciting Wikimedia Conference 2014. \o/
> >
> > Nicole
> >
> >
> > --
> > Nicole Ebber
> > International Affairs
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
> > Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0
> >
> > http://wikimedia.de
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
> > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> > unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> > Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who will host Wikimedia Conference 2014? Bidding process is open!

[Balázs Viczián]

I think you miss my point: I see an event that is being pushed despite no
sufficient visible interest in it from those whom you are targeting with
it...

Sure you'll have more applications than vacant slots, it is pretty easy to
find people to travel for free virtually from an to anywhere in the world.
Also, everybody loves to talk. If you measure success that way, it will be
a 100% success.

Balázs
2013/9/18 Asaf Bartov 

> Balasz, you miss the point: certainly, conferences _can_ be organized in
> any major city.  That's not what this conversation is trying to establish.
>  We are trying to get the deafeningly-silent majority of chapter/ThOrg
> board members on this list to _participate_ in determining the location,
> and later the program, of next year's WMCON.
>
> If the level of interest expressed so far is a fair reflection of the
> actual level of interest, and given WMDE has expressed interest in hosting,
> we could default to that and forego this whole bid process.  The point of
> the bid was to accommodate a perceived interest in sharing the burden (and
> joys) of hosting; if that perception is incorrect, we don't need this
> process.
>
> So which is it, dear colleagues?  Is everyone else just happy for
> Someone to handle this?  Is everyone else just waiting for the
> invitation to the actual event, and the program put together by others?
>
>A.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Nicole Ebber  >wrote:
>
> > Hey Marc,
> >
> > you can find all requirements on Meta.
> >
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference#Logistical_needs_for_the_annual_Wikimedia_Conference_2
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > Nicole
> >
> > On 18 September 2013 19:19, Marc A. Pelletier  wrote:
> > > On 09/18/2013 06:58 AM, Jon Davies wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Can we have it in that place that hosts Groundhog day?
> > >
> > >
> > > I fully intend to prepare a bid for Montreal to host this, once the
> > > requirements are made slightly clearer.  I already have all the
> contacts
> > > with venues and government levels from my organization of the 2011
> > Wikimania
> > > bid and plan to use the success story of that conference to shore up
> > > Montreal's bid to host a Wikimania.  :-)
> > >
> > > -- Marc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Nicole Ebber
> > International Affairs
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
> > Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0
> >
> > http://wikimedia.de
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
> > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> > unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> > Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Asaf Bartov
> Wikimedia Foundation 
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who will host Wikimedia Conference 2014? Bidding process is open!

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

This event can be installed to any city: given the requirements I can
organize it at any city having a conference centre large enough, from
Sopron, Hungary (
http://www.prokultura.hu/hu/konferenciak/rendezvenytermek.html , 5 section
rooms, 2 large halls, a theatre, etc.) to Mexico City, Mexico (
http://www.centrobanamex.com.mx/en/installations/ this technically a
stadium) and anywhere in between each direction. All of these locations
have staff, therefore it is just a matter of how much WMF is willing to
spend on it.

The thing is that you should start building from the bottom, not from the
top. A venue can be secured as late as 3 months before the event to give
everyone enough time to plan and get cheap tickets (and I mean first
minute, not last minute). Most airline and international train tickets are
the cheapest if you buy them ~3 months in advance. Not much later, nor
earlier, because both are being "penalized" by higher fees. We can find out
where to have the event as late as early January

Balazs


2013/9/18 Balázs Viczián 

> Hi,
>
> necessity and meaningfulness are not going hand-by-hand together.
>
> Frankly this event can be installed to any city: given the requirements I
> can organize it at any city having a conference centre large enough, from
> Sopron, Hungary (
> http://www.prokultura.hu/hu/konferenciak/rendezvenytermek.html , 5
> section rooms, 2 large halls, a theatre, etc.) to Mexico City, Mexico (
> http://www.centrobanamex.com.mx/en/installations/ this technically a
> stadium) and anywhere in between each direction.
>
> The thing is that you should start building from the bottom, not from the
> top. A venue can be secured as late as 3 month before the event to give
> everyone enough time to plan and get cheap tickets (and I mean first
> minute, not last minute). Most airline and international train tickets are
> the cheapest if you buy them ~3 months in advance. Not much later, nor
> earlier, because both are being "penalized" by higher fees. We can find out
> where to have the event as late as early January.
>
> Balazs
>
>
>
> 2013/9/18 Cornelius Kibelka 
>
>> Vince,
>>
>> That may be true. But maybe you remember that Nicole some months ago tried
>> to initiate a discussion process about the Conference, almost nobody
>> replied or was engaged in the discussion.
>>
>> So now we have to hurry up, if we want a conference or a meeting at all in
>> early 2014. After that or even at the Conference itself we can discuss the
>> future of this type of gathering.
>>
>> I think, personally, an Affiliate conference is absolutely necessary. The
>> design of the conference itself is up to the future programme committee.
>> Of
>> course, as you suggest, more thematic slots are (more) useful instead of
>> the three days talking about the state of the chapters. However, that's an
>> other discussion.
>>
>> Best
>> Cornelius
>> 
>> Cornelius Kibelka
>>
>> Mobile: +49-1520-7226062
>> Twitter: @jaancornelius
>> Am 18.09.2013 10:01 schrieb "Balázs Viczián" > >:
>>
>> > Imo would be nice to know what to bid for before bidding at all...
>> >
>> > If it is that struggling to find out what is WMConf is about, I suggest
>> > dropping it at all (as per the evolution of Wikimania, it would be a
>> > reasonable decision) and create small, thematic workshops instead (see
>> the
>> > PED workshop in Budapest in July)
>> >
>> > Vince
>> >
>> >
>> > 2013/9/17 Nicole Ebber 
>> >
>> > > Hi Balázs,
>> > >
>> > > thanks for asking. I wanted to focus on the location committee first,
>> > > and then send a call for input and volunteers for the programme
>> > > committee within the next days.
>> > >
>> > > Best,
>> > > Nicole
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 16 September 2013 21:31, Balázs Viczián <
>> balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > would be nice to learn more about the "programme committee"; who are
>> > > they,
>> > > > what are their duties, etc.
>> > > >
>> > > > Cheers,
>> > > > Balázs
>> > > >
>> > > > 2013/9/16 Nicole Ebber 
>> > > >
>> > > >> Dear Wikimedia friends,
>> > > >>
>> > > >> following up on the emails Asaf and I sent a few weeks ago, I have
>> now
>> > > >> drafted the bidding process to decide upon the location

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who will host Wikimedia Conference 2014? Bidding process is open!

[Balázs Viczián]

Imo would be nice to know what to bid for before bidding at all...

If it is that struggling to find out what is WMConf is about, I suggest
dropping it at all (as per the evolution of Wikimania, it would be a
reasonable decision) and create small, thematic workshops instead (see the
PED workshop in Budapest in July)

Vince


2013/9/17 Nicole Ebber 

> Hi Balázs,
>
> thanks for asking. I wanted to focus on the location committee first,
> and then send a call for input and volunteers for the programme
> committee within the next days.
>
> Best,
> Nicole
>
>
>
> On 16 September 2013 21:31, Balázs Viczián 
> wrote:
> > would be nice to learn more about the "programme committee"; who are
> they,
> > what are their duties, etc.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Balázs
> >
> > 2013/9/16 Nicole Ebber 
> >
> >> Dear Wikimedia friends,
> >>
> >> following up on the emails Asaf and I sent a few weeks ago, I have now
> >> drafted the bidding process to decide upon the location for next
> >> year’s Wikimedia Conference. This event will not only host the annual
> >> Chapters’/Affiliates’ conference, but also the WMF board, FDC and
> >> AffCom meetings and is meant to take place in April 2014 (tbc).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference#Bidding_process_for_hosting_the_next_Wikimedia_Conference
> >>
> >> == LOCATION COMMITTEE ==
> >> I would like to see a small location committee (3 representatives of
> >> affiliates, 1 AffCom and 1 WMF) to decide about the hosting chapter.
> >> Asaf and Bence already agreed upon joining the committee, and it would
> >> be nice to see someone from WMIT there, as they have the freshest
> >> experience. So if you have severe experience with conference
> >> organisation, please consider joining the committee now!
> >>
> >> == WANNA HOST WMCON 2014? ==
> >> All chapters who are interested in organising the conference in 2014
> >> are invited to place a short bid on Meta. The bids should be made
> >> until 30 September, a decision should be available before 15 October.
> >> The winning organisation will be responsible for all the logistics, as
> >> in: venue, catering, travel and visa arrangements, accommodation,
> >> technical equipment, social events, communication with and support for
> >> the participants, coordination with the programme committee and the
> >> facilitators.
> >>
> >> I hope that if we can take the logistics and location for granted,
> >> this will help us focus on the content and sustainability of the
> >> event. I have written more about the programme part on Meta.
> >>
> >> Thanks to Asaf and Bence for giving their valuable input to the set-up
> >> of this process. Since WMDE has kind of a traditional interest in
> >> having a good conference, I am happy to take a leading role in
> >> organising this process. Any help is highly appreciated! I am looking
> >> forward to an exciting Wikimedia Conference 2014. \o/
> >>
> >> Nicole
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Nicole Ebber
> >> International Affairs
> >>
> >> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
> >> Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0
> >>
> >> http://wikimedia.de
> >>
> >> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
> >> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> >> unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> >> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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>
>
>
> --
> Nicole Ebber
> International Affairs
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0
>
> http://wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who will host Wikimedia Conference 2014? Bidding process is open!

[Balázs Viczián]

Umm...I already wrote there a lot a month ago under my usernamed: Vince.

Cheers,
Balázs

2013.09.16. 21:42, "Asaf Bartov"  ezt írta:
>
> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 12:31 PM, Balázs Viczián <
> balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu> wrote:
>
> > would be nice to learn more about the "programme committee"; who are
they,
> > what are their duties, etc.
> >
>
> Would be even nicer to take an active part in shaping the answers to those
> questions by engaging on the wiki.  :)
>
> This is an event important to all of us (I hope).  Let's stop waiting for
> Someone to do-it-for-us-and-tell-us-what-was-decided, and get
> involved...
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference#Bidding_process_for_hosting_the_next_Wikimedia_Conference
>
>A.
> --
> Asaf Bartov
> Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who will host Wikimedia Conference 2014? Bidding process is open!

[Balázs Viczián]

would be nice to learn more about the "programme committee"; who are they,
what are their duties, etc.

Cheers,
Balázs

2013/9/16 Nicole Ebber 

> Dear Wikimedia friends,
>
> following up on the emails Asaf and I sent a few weeks ago, I have now
> drafted the bidding process to decide upon the location for next
> year’s Wikimedia Conference. This event will not only host the annual
> Chapters’/Affiliates’ conference, but also the WMF board, FDC and
> AffCom meetings and is meant to take place in April 2014 (tbc).
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference#Bidding_process_for_hosting_the_next_Wikimedia_Conference
>
> == LOCATION COMMITTEE ==
> I would like to see a small location committee (3 representatives of
> affiliates, 1 AffCom and 1 WMF) to decide about the hosting chapter.
> Asaf and Bence already agreed upon joining the committee, and it would
> be nice to see someone from WMIT there, as they have the freshest
> experience. So if you have severe experience with conference
> organisation, please consider joining the committee now!
>
> == WANNA HOST WMCON 2014? ==
> All chapters who are interested in organising the conference in 2014
> are invited to place a short bid on Meta. The bids should be made
> until 30 September, a decision should be available before 15 October.
> The winning organisation will be responsible for all the logistics, as
> in: venue, catering, travel and visa arrangements, accommodation,
> technical equipment, social events, communication with and support for
> the participants, coordination with the programme committee and the
> facilitators.
>
> I hope that if we can take the logistics and location for granted,
> this will help us focus on the content and sustainability of the
> event. I have written more about the programme part on Meta.
>
> Thanks to Asaf and Bence for giving their valuable input to the set-up
> of this process. Since WMDE has kind of a traditional interest in
> having a good conference, I am happy to take a leading role in
> organising this process. Any help is highly appreciated! I am looking
> forward to an exciting Wikimedia Conference 2014. \o/
>
> Nicole
>
>
> --
> Nicole Ebber
> International Affairs
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0
>
> http://wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The next Wikimedia Conference (AKA "Chapters' Meeting")

[Balázs Viczián]

There was some discussions between Claudia (WMAT) and Andrea (WMHU) during
the PED worshop held in Budapest about hosting a joint Wikimedia Conference
next year, maybe in Sopron (50mins from Vienna by train) or in Győr (1,5hrs
from three major airports int the region - Budapest, Vienna and Bratislava)

Balázs

2013/8/30 Charles Andrès 

> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Events/upcoming
>
>
> done
>
> Wikimedia CH step in for the Hackathon in 2014 and for the Wikimedia
> Conference 2015
>
>
> sincerely
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> ___
> I use this email for mailing list only.
>
> « Je donne mon avis non comme bon mais comme mien.  » (Michel de Montaigne)
>
> Charles ANDRES
> "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
> www.wikimedia.ch
> Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
>
> Le 30 août 2013 à 18:39, Ziko van Dijk  a écrit :
>
> > Hello,
> > Another coincidence: WMNL is very much interested in hosting a big
> > international GLAM event in 2015. How about if there is a page on Meta
> > where we collect the intentions and plans for the following years, with
> > regard to the major conventions:
> > * Wikimania
> > * WM Conference, the former chapters meeting
> > * GLAM event
> > * Hackathon
> > * Education event?
> > Kind regards
> > Ziko
> >
> >
> >
> > Am Freitag, 30. August 2013 schrieb Nicole Ebber :
> >
> >> Hey, what a coincidence. Minutes ago I posted a suggestion to
> >> chapters-l and copied it to the talk page of the "Future of the
> >> Wikimedia Conference" page. Glad the we bring the discussion to the
> >> next level now. Thanks, Asaf! :)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference#Coming_up_with_a_location_first
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Nicole
> >>
> >> On 30 August 2013 16:45, Asaf Bartov  wrote:
> >>> Hello All:
> >>>
> >>> Following our most recent, successful, community gathering in Hong Kong
> >> - A
> >>> BIG thank you, again, to everyone who made it such an event to
> remember -
> >>> we are looking ahead to the annual Wikimedia Conference (AKA Chapters'
> >>> Meeting.)
> >>>
> >>> As many of you know, we typically await the offer of a specific group
> to
> >>> host the event each year.  While this process has more or less worked
> in
> >>> the past, we are increasingly aware that waiting until close to the
> >>> gathering to decide on the date and the location creates an unnecessary
> >>> inconvenience to those planning to attend and results in higher fees
> for
> >>> travel and lodging that could be avoided if we worked together to plan
> >>> further ahead.
> >>>
> >>> Wikimedia Deutschland had helpfully started a conversation about the
> >> future
> >>> of the Wikimedia Conference, on Meta[1], including the question of
> >> settling
> >>> the host group.  Regrettably, there has been practically no engagement
> >> with
> >>> that page so far.  (For my part, I have deliberately been waiting for a
> >> few
> >>> movement groups to speak first, as I wanted to avoid "priming" the
> >>> conversation with the (perceived) weight of WMF's voice.)
> >>>
> >>> It has occurred to us that two of the reasons that we are not able to
> >> plan
> >>> further ahead may be 1. the somewhat vague nature of the planning
> process
> >>> and 2. that groups who may want to host hesitate because of an
> >> uncertainty
> >>> regarding the costs involved in hosting such a large event.
> >>>
> >>> Therefore, we would like to provide some basic information about the
> >>> Wikimedia Conference and begin a community conversation regarding how
> me
> >>> might work together to set the date and location by, say, November of
> the
> >>> year preceding the event; thus giving those who want to attend plenty
> of
> >>> time to plan and saving the movement and each of the groups the higher
> >> cost
> >>> of last minute lodging arrangements and airline ticket purchases.
> >>>
> >>> Additionally, planning ahead will allow all of the chapters who wish to
> >>> send participants to contribute to the agenda for the gathering; thus
> >>> making sure that all of the issues that the participants would like to
> >>> discuss are addressed at this annual conference.
> >>>
> >>> *==First a bit about the purpose of the Wikimedia Conference==*
> >>> *An opportunity for Wikimedia movement organizations to meet
> face-to-face
> >>> and share ideas about projects and practices and to discuss any
> >> unresolved
> >>> issues that may have come up during the past year.
> >>> *A venue for one of the quarterly Wikimedia Foundation Board of
> Trustees
> >>> meetings and an opportunity for the Wikimedia Foundation Board of
> >> Trustees
> >>> and Wikimedia movement organizations to meet and talk.
> >>> *A venue for the Funds Dissemination Committee to meet to assess the
> >>> funding proposals for Round 2 of the current year and provide
> >>> recommendations on those proposals to the WMF Board.
> >>>
> >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF's New Global South Strategy

[Balázs Viczián]

What about making it simply global...?

Balázs
2013.08.30. 2:44, "Asaf Bartov"  ezt írta:

> On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 5:30 PM, MZMcBride  wrote:
>
> >
> > The first section was removed? I got excited to see the term "Global
> > South" with a line through it (in the agenda index), but I think I
> > initially misunderstood its meaning.
>
>
> No, the strikethrough was a visual cue that the _term_ "Global South" is
> emphatically not on the agenda.
>
>
> > The term "Global South" is pretty
> > awful and deserves a quick death.
>
>
> Agreed...
>
>
> > But based on the title of the
> > presentation and this e-mail thread... I'm not hopeful that it's dead
> yet.
> >
>
> ...but what do we replace it with?  This has been rehashed quite a bit, but
> no one has come up with a compelling alternative that's reasonably concise
> and is politically acceptable.  (Personally I am happy with "developing
> world" and "developing nations", but of course those terms are euphemistic
> as well, and apparently no longer acceptable in some circles.)
>
> I have stated before that the term, for us, is just shorthand for a list of
> countries, and we make no essentialist assumptions about some uniformity
> throughout all these countries.  It is my understanding that most of the
> consternation (kittens dying etc.) the term causes is due to the assumption
> that we _are_ making an essentialist assumption and treating all GS
> countries the same.  I hope it is by now evident we are not.
>
> Once again, I find no point to debating this.  All who _are_ interested are
> welcome to hash it out somewhere, and submit a consensual term (or a
> shortlist) to WMF for consideration.  If a superior term arises, I promise
> to make an effort to adopt it across WMF.  Until then, let's focus on the
> actual work rather than the nomenclature.
>
>
> > I'm a little confused about whether the ongoing programs in Brazil and
> > India will continue. There's a note that reads "No WMF contractors on the
> > ground any more", but it's unclear whether this means a discontinuation
> of
> > the current folks. And the final slides focus on future engagements. Does
> > the "no contractors on the ground" line mean only full-time staff will be
> > working with (engaging with, if you prefer) areas in the future?
> Full-time
> > staff and local chapter folks, I guess? And simply no Wikimedia
> Foundation
> > contractors?
> >
>
> There are no WMF employees outside the US, so "no contractors on the
> ground" (in the GS context -- we still have engineers around the world!)
> means that (once the Brazil transition is complete -- this is in progress),
> no program work in the GS will be done by WMF contractors, but only by
> local partners (movement affiliates -- chapters, thematic organizations,
> and user groups -- and unaffiliated partners), some of whom would be WMF
> grantees.
>
> Cheers,
>
>A.
> --
> Asaf Bartov
> Wikimedia Foundation 
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF's New Global South Strategy

[Balázs Viczián]

What about making it simply global...?

Balázs
2013.08.30. 2:44, "Asaf Bartov"  ezt írta:

> On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 5:30 PM, MZMcBride  wrote:
>
> >
> > The first section was removed? I got excited to see the term "Global
> > South" with a line through it (in the agenda index), but I think I
> > initially misunderstood its meaning.
>
>
> No, the strikethrough was a visual cue that the _term_ "Global South" is
> emphatically not on the agenda.
>
>
> > The term "Global South" is pretty
> > awful and deserves a quick death.
>
>
> Agreed...
>
>
> > But based on the title of the
> > presentation and this e-mail thread... I'm not hopeful that it's dead
> yet.
> >
>
> ...but what do we replace it with?  This has been rehashed quite a bit, but
> no one has come up with a compelling alternative that's reasonably concise
> and is politically acceptable.  (Personally I am happy with "developing
> world" and "developing nations", but of course those terms are euphemistic
> as well, and apparently no longer acceptable in some circles.)
>
> I have stated before that the term, for us, is just shorthand for a list of
> countries, and we make no essentialist assumptions about some uniformity
> throughout all these countries.  It is my understanding that most of the
> consternation (kittens dying etc.) the term causes is due to the assumption
> that we _are_ making an essentialist assumption and treating all GS
> countries the same.  I hope it is by now evident we are not.
>
> Once again, I find no point to debating this.  All who _are_ interested are
> welcome to hash it out somewhere, and submit a consensual term (or a
> shortlist) to WMF for consideration.  If a superior term arises, I promise
> to make an effort to adopt it across WMF.  Until then, let's focus on the
> actual work rather than the nomenclature.
>
>
> > I'm a little confused about whether the ongoing programs in Brazil and
> > India will continue. There's a note that reads "No WMF contractors on the
> > ground any more", but it's unclear whether this means a discontinuation
> of
> > the current folks. And the final slides focus on future engagements. Does
> > the "no contractors on the ground" line mean only full-time staff will be
> > working with (engaging with, if you prefer) areas in the future?
> Full-time
> > staff and local chapter folks, I guess? And simply no Wikimedia
> Foundation
> > contractors?
> >
>
> There are no WMF employees outside the US, so "no contractors on the
> ground" (in the GS context -- we still have engineers around the world!)
> means that (once the Brazil transition is complete -- this is in progress),
> no program work in the GS will be done by WMF contractors, but only by
> local partners (movement affiliates -- chapters, thematic organizations,
> and user groups -- and unaffiliated partners), some of whom would be WMF
> grantees.
>
> Cheers,
>
>A.
> --
> Asaf Bartov
> Wikimedia Foundation 
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About the concentration of resources in SF (itwas: "Communication plans for community engagement"

[Balázs Viczián]

Would be nice to see feasibility checks before outsourcing some tasks to
chapters to make sure they are prepared for the task.

Cheers,
Balazs


2013/8/26 Nathan 

> Hi Romaine,
>
> In the absence of any practical description of what an office on each
> populated continent would do, or what concrete organizational role it
> would fulfill (other than "bringing communities together"), it seems
> unlikely that the WMF is going to immediately reverse its relatively
> recent decision to follow a strategy directly contrary to what you
> propose. The model that Quim outlines makes much more sense; the work
> of the movement can be dispersed more naturally when stakeholders take
> on projects and initiatives that the WMF can support with grant
> funding. These projects have evidently had far and away more success
> than either "general funding" of WMF affiliates or expanding the WMF
> itself into far-away lands.
>
> ~Nate
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal - Training for Wikimedia movement boards

[Balázs Viczián]

If you wish to educate board people, I think mailing lists and acronyms
should not cover a full bulletpoint of the event because they should have
that knowledge already

I miss volunteer management in particular what is imo amongst the basic
skills (it is totally different in many ways from paid staff mgmt) and
fundraising. (Omg, we got a donation...what to do now? :)

I'd go for general project (and time and workflow...) management instead of
particular this and that kinda specific things. Imo first get the "big
picture", than the specific ones (Glam, editathon, etc.)

Are you plannig to hire a professional NGO trainer (individual[s])? A
training company specialized on NGOs? Or we should educate each other?

Cheers,
Balázs

2013/8/13 Ziko van Dijk 

> Hello,
> Indeed it seems to me possible to fill a whole master studies with the
> things a board member should know :-) but I know that he meant something
> different. It would be a could idea to have board members going to
> trainings to be a board member in the specific country where they live. A
> course of a weekend, for example, would be already a good help. Everything
> must remain a little bit realistic.
> Possibly, some board members are more open to other Wikimedians than people
> from the "outside world" - possibly not. Narrowing the target group down to
> chapter board members to "staff chapters" is a good step, and I share the
> arguments on the Meta page. Maybe one should let participants apply for the
> seminar in a similar way as to Wikimania, in order to have those
> participants most likely to succeed. For example, if someone is already
> more than a year board member and likely to remain at least on a board for
> another year, that would be a pro.
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
>
> Am Dienstag, 13. August 2013 schrieb David Gerard :
>
> > On 13 August 2013 15:39, Federico Leva (Nemo)  >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > True. Even worse, many do not even try to be board members (or active
> > > chapter members, for that matter) because they (think they) don't have
> > > enough experience. It's crucial to ensure the availability of growing
> > paths
> > > (usually informal) for volunteers or you lose them and they lose
> > > opportunities.
> > > For me, it's been crucial to be told by a prof. "you can learn the job
> > of a
> > > [university] board member in 6 months" (so it's inexcusable if you
> don't,
> > > but you must try). He was right.
> >
> >
> > A very useful book: Nonprofit Kit For Dummies by Stan Hutton and
> > Frances Phillips. I so wish I'd read it 25 years before I did. Very
> > US-centric, but informative outside that.
> >
> >
> > - d.
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >  > ?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> 
> Ziko van Dijk
> voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
> deputy chair Wikimedia Chapters Association Council
>
> Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
> Postbus 167
> 3500 AD Utrecht
> http://wikimedia.nl
>
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About the concentration of resources in SF (it was: "Communication plans for community engagement"

[Balázs Viczián]

Well, both Hungary and Budapest aims to be the R&D center of the region.
There are multiple government and munipal funds and programmes plus a lot
of favouring policies on both administrative levels, including a full
dedicated neighbourhood on the bank of the Danube, named Infopark (since
1996 [1])

Setting up a formally for-profit company who's only contractor would be the
WMF (and/or other chapters) in BP can be funded well over 50% from non
movement funds (or low/no interest loans) during the first few years and
would be much much cheaper than any parts of Western Europe and most of the
CEE. Doing so though WMHU or a separate non-profit way - probaly also
doable.

However having one such department for the sake of having one is a total
waste of time, money and efforts everywhere in the World, so the main
question is: are there enough projects that could make establishing such a
department/spearate entity reasonable?

Balázs

[1] http://www.infopark.hu/lang/en/




> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 2:39 PM, rupert THURNER
>  wrote:
>
> > If WMF is serious about letting development activities grow in other
> > countries this might be taken into account in FDCs allocation policy.
>
> For my part, I'm happy to offer feedback to the FDC on plans related
> to the development of engineering capacity in FDC-funded
> organizations. I'm sure Wikimedia Germany, too, would be happy to
> share its experiences growing the Wikidata development team. I'd love
> to find ways to bootstrap more engineering capacity across the
> movement, as so many of our shared challenges have a software
> engineering component. If any folks on-list want to touch base on
> these questions at Wikimania, drop me a note. :)
>
> Erik
>
> --
> Erik Möller
> VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About the concentration of resources in SF (it was: "Communication plans for community engagement"

[Balázs Viczián]

Is WMF planning to outsource any of its engineering activities in the
future? Or are there enough projects in the queue that makes the effort
reasonable?

Otherwise I believe there is no point for any chapter to build out any
software engineering capacity above their local needs or at all.

Balázs



2013/7/24 Erik Moeller 

> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:44 AM, David Cuenca  wrote:
> > I don't agree with Romaine's view that it is a cultural problem, but it
> is
> > true that the WMF management seems to prefer to have all development
> > concentrated in SF.
>
> Hardly. About half of WMF's engineering staff is distributed (both
> inside and outside the US), and we've encouraged and supported
> software engineering efforts by chapters. I'd actually love to see
> much more of that happen, and see other chapters build engineering
> capacity over time. It's legally challenging for WMF to have office
> presence in multiple jurisdictions, but having independent orgs like
> Wikimedia chapters build out development teams doesn't suffer from
> that challenge.
>
> We're an open source project; being able to decentralize effort is our
> strength. The caveat I would add is that you actually need to ensure
> that complex projects are resourced sufficiently. Wikidata is a
> success in part because it's a well-resourced, well-managed team, and
> the partnership in areas where WMF does need to help was carefully
> negotiated.
>
> So, which other chapters are up for building out serious software
> engineering capacity?
>
> Erik
> --
> Erik Möller
> VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: change in article edits after visual editor roll-out (was Re: Feedback for the Wikimedia Foundation)

[Balázs Viczián]

Log out and try editing.

I tried editing anonymously on enwiki a few days ago; Visual Editor simply
did not save my edit, instead it froze after hitting the save button after
leaving an edit comment, what is seemingly mandatory now. So when I hit
"save page" the second time.

Hope this helps a bit.

Cheers,
Balázs
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: The most controversial topics in Wikipedia: A multilingual and geographical analysis

[Balázs Viczián]

When I started editing in 2006 it was already the norm; ever since people
are encouraging each other to place their questions about a given article
rather on the village pump or a project page, than on the actual article's
talk page, reasoning that there is larger trafficwhat generates even
larger traffic on those pages making article talks even more sparse :)

I guess only a socio-cultural research could answer the question: why is it
like that on huwiki. Maybe one day in the bright (and hopefully not so far)
future Wikimedia Hungary will order a similar research so you can use that
later on in your own research ;)

Üdv,
Balázs


2013/7/22 Taha Yasseri 

> That's very interesting to know. Thanks for telling me. We were quite
> surprised by seeing very spars talk pages in Hungarian Wiki.
> I'm sure you know better than me that article talk pages are for different
> purposes that user talks and the village pump. However that's interesting
> that Hungarian Wikipedia prefer to take the discussion to other places than
> talk pages.
>
> szervusz
> Taha.
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Balázs Viczián <
> balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
> > wrote:
>
> > As a Hungarian, it is really interesting to read something specific
> > about the Hungarian Wikipedia :)
> >
> > I read somewhere (correct me if I'm wrong) that you found little to no
> > discussions on article talk pages on the Hungarian Wikipedia,
> > indicating that users barely discuss the content (or anything at all
> > about the given article).
> >
> > Actually these discussions are either quickly moving to the village
> > pump after 1-2 comments or happening there entirely. The most common
> > is that the users discuss it on their user talk pages by directly
> > messaging each other about the changes they made/content, creating
> > 2-3-4 paralel threads on each others's user talks. Article talks for
> > this reason are generally considered "deserted lands" on huwiki, what
> > almost nobody reads.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Balázs
> >
> > 2013/7/22 Taha Yasseri 
> > >
> > > Anders,
> > > I really like your idea on "universal" articles. given the fact that
> > > translation and communication cross languages is not a very task these
> > days
> > > any more.
> > >
> > > By the way, in a blog post, I have release some more data on languages
> > like
> > > Japanese, Chinese, and Portugies, in case anyone's interested:
> > >
> >
> http://tahayasseri.wordpress.com/2013/05/27/wikipedia-modern-platform-ancient-debates-on-land-and-gods/
> > >
> > > bests,
> > > Taha
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Anders Wennersten <
> > m...@anderswennersten.se
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I see the difference on the different version as most interesting and
> > to
> > > > have some insight into Arabic version, I have not had before
> > > >
> > > > On a "small version" like sv:wp we are very used to "steal with
> pride"
> > > > content from other versions, primary en:wp but also de:wp and others
> > and we
> > > > do this especially for controversial subjects that are not specific
> > for a
> > > > country/culture. But are en:wp and other big versions doing the same?
> > It is
> > > > very refreshing for a clinched discussion to start with an almost all
> > new
> > > > textversion.
> > > >
> > > > Also I wonder over articles like Homeopathy
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*
> > > > *Homeopathy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy> which seems to
> > be
> > > > in top of controversies. Would it be an idea to compile an unverisal
> > > > article with help from different versions, ie do we really utilize
> the
> > > > power of us having many versions and many experts?
> > > >
> > > > Anders
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Osmar Valdebenito skrev 2013-07-22 16:13:
> > > >
> > > >  I was interviewed a few days ago from a Chilean newspaper because of
> > this
> > > >> paper. For those interested that can read Spanish here is the full
> > > >> article:
> > > >> http://www.latercera.com/**noticia/tendencias/2013/07/**
> > > >> 659-533645-9-estudio-dice-que-**chile-es-el-articulo-de-**
> > > >> wikipedia-mas-editado-en-**espanol.shtml<

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: The most controversial topics in Wikipedia: A multilingual and geographical analysis

[Balázs Viczián]

As a Hungarian, it is really interesting to read something specific
about the Hungarian Wikipedia :)

I read somewhere (correct me if I'm wrong) that you found little to no
discussions on article talk pages on the Hungarian Wikipedia,
indicating that users barely discuss the content (or anything at all
about the given article).

Actually these discussions are either quickly moving to the village
pump after 1-2 comments or happening there entirely. The most common
is that the users discuss it on their user talk pages by directly
messaging each other about the changes they made/content, creating
2-3-4 paralel threads on each others's user talks. Article talks for
this reason are generally considered "deserted lands" on huwiki, what
almost nobody reads.

Cheers,
Balázs

2013/7/22 Taha Yasseri 
>
> Anders,
> I really like your idea on "universal" articles. given the fact that
> translation and communication cross languages is not a very task these days
> any more.
>
> By the way, in a blog post, I have release some more data on languages like
> Japanese, Chinese, and Portugies, in case anyone's interested:
> http://tahayasseri.wordpress.com/2013/05/27/wikipedia-modern-platform-ancient-debates-on-land-and-gods/
>
> bests,
> Taha
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Anders Wennersten  > wrote:
>
> > I see the difference on the different version as most interesting and to
> > have some insight into Arabic version, I have not had before
> >
> > On a "small version" like sv:wp we are very used to "steal with pride"
> > content from other versions, primary en:wp but also de:wp and others and we
> > do this especially for controversial subjects that are not specific for a
> > country/culture. But are en:wp and other big versions doing the same? It is
> > very refreshing for a clinched discussion to start with an almost all new
> > textversion.
> >
> > Also I wonder over articles like Homeopathy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*
> > *Homeopathy  which seems to be
> > in top of controversies. Would it be an idea to compile an unverisal
> > article with help from different versions, ie do we really utilize the
> > power of us having many versions and many experts?
> >
> > Anders
> >
> >
> >
> > Osmar Valdebenito skrev 2013-07-22 16:13:
> >
> >  I was interviewed a few days ago from a Chilean newspaper because of this
> >> paper. For those interested that can read Spanish here is the full
> >> article:
> >> http://www.latercera.com/**noticia/tendencias/2013/07/**
> >> 659-533645-9-estudio-dice-que-**chile-es-el-articulo-de-**
> >> wikipedia-mas-editado-en-**espanol.shtml
> >>
> >> I read the paper in full and I have to admit it has very interesting
> >> approaches to remove the "vandalism" effect. Probably it won't be perfect,
> >> especially for a platform where it is impossible to have an exact,
> >> quantitative measure of quality or neutrality. Is there a measure of
> >> controversiality? I will consider controversial those articles where I
> >> usually edit and probably I will ignore several others that are more
> >> controversial and so on...
> >>
> >> But besides the particular issue of which is the most controversial
> >> article, I'm more interested in the trends that each Wikipedia has. They
> >> seem consistent and I think there is a lot of things that we can learn
> >> from
> >> it.
> >>
> >> *Osmar Valdebenito G.*
> >> Director Ejecutivo
> >> A. C. Wikimedia Argentina
> >>
> >>
> >> 2013/7/22 Taha Yasseri 
> >>
> >>  Thanks Tilman.
> >>>
> >>> Especially for your effort to resolve the misunderstandings, which most
> >>> of
> >>> them I suppose are due to a shallow reading: "I had a bit of free time
> >>> last
> >>> night waiting for trains and I skimmed  through the study and its
> >>> findings."
> >>>
> >>> We had two strategies to get rid of vandalisms, as you mentioned,
> >>> considering only mutual reverts and waiting editors by their maturity, I
> >>> suppose a vandal could not have a large maturity score by definition.
> >>>
> >>> As for the data, this study has been carried out in 2011, and we worked
> >>> on
> >>> the latest available dump at the time. Someone experienced in academic
> >>> research, especially at this scale well knows that it really takes time
> >>> to
> >>> get the analysis done, write the reports, get them reviewed, etc.
> >>> Especially that we have published 7-8 other papers during the same
> >>> period.
> >>> I see no problem in this as long as the metadata and such information
> >>> about
> >>> the methods and the data under study are mentioned in the manuscript,
> >>> which
> >>> is clearly the case here. I have seen many Wikipedia studies without any
> >>> mention of the dump they have used!
> >>>
> >>>   Back to your concern for the general impression that the news media
> >>> give
> >>> on w

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The most controversial topics in Wikipedia: A multilingual and geographical analysis

[Balázs Viczián]

You may contact them directly with your concerns what I guess many did
after they published their study.

here is their homepage: http://wwm.phy.bme.hu/

Cheers,
Balázs


2013/7/21 MZMcBride 

> Anders Wennersten wrote:
> >A most interesting study looking at findings from 10 different language
> >versions.
> >
> >Jesus and Middle east are the most controversial articles seen over the
> >world, but George Bush on en:wp and Chile on es:wp
> >
> >http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1305/1305.5566.pdf
>
> Thanks for sharing this.
>
> I had a bit of free time last night waiting for trains and I skimmed
> through the study and its findings. Two points stuck out at me: a
> seemingly fatally flawed methodology and the age of data used.
>
> The methodology used in this study seems to be pretty inherently flawed.
> According to the paper, controversiality was measured by full page
> reverts, which are fairly trivial to identify and study in a database dump
> (using cryptographic hashes, as the study did), but I don't think full
> reverts give an accurate impression _at all_ of which articles are the
> most controversial.
>
> Pages with many full reverts are indicative of pages that are heavily
> vandalized. For example, the "George W. Bush" article is/was heavily
> vandalized for years on the English Wikipedia. Does blanking the article
> or replacing its contents with the word "penis" mean that it's a very
> controversial article? Of course not. Measuring only full reverts (as the
> study seems to have done, though it's certainly possible I've overlooked
> something) seems to be really misleading and inaccurate.
>
> In order to measure how controversial an article is, there are a number of
> metrics that could be used, though of course no metric is perfect and many
> metrics can be very difficult to accurately and rigorously measure:
>
> * amount of talk page discussion generated for each article;
> * number of page watchers;
> * number of page views (possibly);
> * number of arbitration cases or other dispute resolution procedures
> related to the article (perhaps a key metric in determining which articles
> are truly most controversial); and
> * edit frequency and time between certain edits and partial or full
> reverts of those edits.
>
> There are likely a number of other metrics that could be used as well to
> measure controversiality; these were simply off the top of my head.
>
> The second point that stuck out at me was that the study relied on a
> database dump from March 2010. While this may be unavoidable, being over
> three years later, this introduces obvious bias into the data and its
> findings. Put another way, for the English Wikipedia started in 2001, this
> omits a quarter of the project's history(!). Again, given the length of
> time needed to draft and prepare a study, this gap may very well be
> unavoidable, but it certainly made me raise an eyebrow.
>
> One final comment I had from briefly reading the study was that in the
> past few years we've made good strides in making research like this
> easier. Not that computing cryptographic hashes is particularly intensive,
> but these days we now store such hashes directly in the database (though
> we store SHA-1 hashes, not MD5 hashes as the study used). Storing these
> hashes in the database saves researchers the need to compute the hashes
> themselves and allows MediaWiki and other software the ability to easily
> and quickly detect full reverts.
>
> MZMcBride
>
> P.S. Noting that this study is still a draft, I happened to notice a small
> typo on page nine: "We tried to a as diverse as possible sample including
> West European [...]". Hopefully this can be corrected before formal
> publication.
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Approval of WCUG Greece as Wikimedia User Group

[Balázs Viczián]

Congrats from WMHU!

Balázs

2013/7/20 Ivan Martínez 

> Welcome, congrats!
>
> El sábado, 20 de julio de 2013, Sophie Österberg escribió:
>
> > Congratulations, this is lovely!!
> >
> > *Be Bold!
> > Sophie Österberg
> > sosterb...@wikimedia.org *
> >
> >
> > *Every single contribution to Wikipedia is a
> > gift of free knowledge to humanity. *
> >
> >
> > 2013/7/20 Mile Kiš >
> >
> > > 2013/7/20 Asaf Bartov >
> > >
> > > > Congratulations
> > >
> > >
> > > Congratulations
> > > Wikimedia Serbia looking to have some regional cooperation with you
> > >
> > > Mile Kis
> > > Wikimedia Serbia
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > >  > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >  > ?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> *Atentamente:
>
> Iván Martínez
> Presidente
> Wikimedia México A.C.
> wikimedia.mx
>
> Imagina un mundo en donde cada persona del planeta pueda tener acceso libre
> a la suma total del conocimiento humano.
> Eso es lo que estamos haciendo . *
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Uruguay recognized as newest chapter

[Balázs Viczián]

Congrats from WMHU!

Balázs
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Hungary's strategic planning

[Balázs Viczián]

Awesome will be when you and everyone interested to give their 2 cents
begins to participate in the discussions :)

Balázs


2013/7/3 Sydney 

> Awesome approach! Thanks for bringing attention to your community's
> discussion. I'm eager to see the ideas you all collect.
>
> Sydney Poore
> User:FloNight
>
> Sent from my iPhone
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Hungary's strategic planning

[Balázs Viczián]

(sorry for cross posting)

Hello everyone,

I'd like to invite you to Wikimedia Hungary's strategic planning discussions on
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Wikim%C3%A9dia_Magyarorsz%C3%A1g/Strat%C3%A9giai_c%C3%A9lok_(mint_szervezet)

Don't get scared of the many Hungarian words, Google translator is
there to help you :)

Feel free to comment, add suggestions or exact goals of your taste or
preference (or your chapter's); this wikipage has been created to
centralize all the discussions and have a pool of suggestions and
ideas for our next general assembly in November 30., We will issue our
own short, mid and long term goals and strategies of growth,
expansion, future focuses and all the other things on that meeting.

ALL suggestions, ideas and comments are welcomed, but of course not
all will be implemented (sorry :) )

You can contribute in your own language if your Hungarian (or English
or German) is not that good.

Cheers,
Balázs

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia in jail!

[Balázs Viczián]

Interesting, strange and scary at the same time.

Unfortunately I don't see much chance with such a program here in Hungary;
at least not in that prison where I did time... 2x10 hours to do a contract
photo job before christmas in 3 consecutive years :)

I bet if you check the stats what pages they've visited, it will be almost
exclusively porn an maybe some prison break stuff :)

Congrats WMCH for such a unique program!

Balazs


2013/6/19 Patricio Lorente 

> Charles, this is an amazing initiative. Thanks for sharing, I think we
> could probably try to do something similar in Argentina.
>
>  Patricio
>
> 2013/6/19 Charles Andrès :
> > Hello and thanks Bishaka,
> >
> > We planned two type of post about this story, today or tomorrow we
> should publish a short one about the genesis of the project and the
> relation volunteer/staff.
> >
> > As president of Wikimedia CH I'm very proud of the work accomplish by
> Emmanuel and Chantal, and we would like to share more about this aspect of
> the project.
> >
> > The second post will arrive later this year with more information about
> the project itself and its usage.
> >
> >
> > Thanks too, SJ,
> >
> > "unexpected" refers more to there eager of the newspaper.
> >
> > It's really rare, if not totally absent, to read positive things about
> prisons. In this way, the public "expect" bad news when talking about
> prison, and when a nice story about prison arise, it's unexpected. :-)
> >
> > Sincerely
> >
> >
> > ___
> > I use this email for mailing list only.
> >
> > Charles ANDRES, Chairman
> > "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
> > www.wikimedia.ch
> > Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> > IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
> >
> > Le 18 juin 2013 à 10:52, Bishakha Datta  a
> écrit :
> >
> >> Fantastic - and fascinating.
> >>
> >> Would love to see a blog post by someone from the chapter or by one of
> >> them.
> >>
> >> Bravo for reaching out to forgotten people.
> >>
> >> Bishakha
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Samuel Klein 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Charles - How beautiful.   Thank you for doing and sharing this.
> >>> In what way was the partnership unexpected?  Did the Bellevue prison
> >>> approach Wikipedians?
> >>>
> >>> Here is the announcement page w/PDF from the WM-CH site:
> >>> https://www.wikimedia.ch/%5Bi18n-termpath-raw%5D/wikipedia-jail
> >>>
> >>> SJ
> >>>
> >>> SJ
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Liam Wyatt 
> wrote:
>  Now THIS is seriously clever!
>  Well done WMCH - that is a truly innovative way to provide access to
>  knowledge to a community who is often forgotten.
>  Can you link to the press release here, please?
> 
>  -Liam / Wittylama
> 
>  wittylama.com
>  Peace, love & metadata
> 
> 
>  On 17 June 2013 14:15, Charles Andrès 
> >>> wrote:
> 
> > Wikipedia for prisoners – an unexpected partnership between a swiss
> >>> prison
> > and Wikimedia CH
> >
> > Following an initiative from Emmanuel Engelhart, with the support of
> > Wikimedia CH CAO, Chantal Ebongué, since March 2013, prisoners who
> >>> request
> > can have an access to Wikipedia offline (Kiwix project). The idea is
> to
> > stimulate or to support the interest for education of prisoners who
> >>> were,
> > for a large majority, condemned to long-time sentences.
> >
> > After three months of pilot phasis, the project is successful : Among
> >>> the
> > 36 prisoners of the Bellevue’s prison in Gorgier, 18 possess or rent
> a
> > computer. All of them requested the upload of Wikipedia offline on
> their
> > PC. For security reasons, swiss prisoners have a very restricted
> access
> >>> to
> > internet.
> >
> > More informations in the press releases (ENG, DE, FR, IT) that was
> sent
> > today to the swiss media
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Charles
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Charles ANDRES, Chairman
> > "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
> > www.wikimedia.ch
> > Office +41 (0)21 340 66 20
> > Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> > IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >
>  ___
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>  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Samuel Klein  @metasj   w:user:sj  +1 617 529
> 4266
> >>>
> >>> ___
> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

[Balázs Viczián]

WMHU had issues with the manual version of mass copying.

One of the most known, highly active and trusted user (at that time already
an admin) of WMHU, on the project for five years (from 2005) as of the date
it was revealed in 2010, have copied over half of his 11.000+ articles that
he created over these years. Unfortunately 5227 of them had to be deleted.

The full story (in Hungarian) is here:
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:A_VIL_copy_%C3%BCgy

Use google translator as long as the comminity does not create a free, open
source online (wiki)translator ;)

Maybe this is why I disagree with this human is better than bot reasoning -
there is no guarantee for that. Both the same imo.

However bot errors (most of the times) can be fixed much more easily. They
will create as good articles only as their owners are  thorough (for
example making sure using the most up to date sources for butterflies).

Cheers,

Balázs


2013.06.18. 12:08, "Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada"  ezt írta:

> Seriously, are we discussing again about bot stubs yes, bot stubs no?
>
> Those users who want to submit complete 10-page articles, can move to the
> defunct Nupedia or the 'vibrant' Citizendium.
>
> This eternal discussion is so boring.
>
>
> 2013/6/18 Lydia Pintscher 
>
> > On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Nikola Smolenski 
> > wrote:
> > > On 18/06/13 01:04, Martin Rulsch wrote:
> > >>
> > >> As far as I know, that's even planned by the Wikidata team.
> > >
> > >
> > > It isn't exactly planned by the Wikidata tema, a volunteer would need
> to
> > do
> > > it.
> >
> > What exactly are you talking about being planned by the team? I'm not
> > sure we're all talking about the same thing.
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > Lydia
> >
> > --
> > Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> > Community Communications for Technical Projects
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> > Obentrautstr. 72
> > 10963 Berlin
> > www.wikimedia.de
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> >
> > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> > unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> > Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
> >
> > ___
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> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

[Balázs Viczián]

I am totally supportive of the idea to create articles in this way if they
are more than a simple infobox with 5-6 stats in it. The bot generated form
[1] of the millionth Swedish article is where these bot generated articles
can start from; a useful stub. If we take seriously this "collect the sum
of all knowledge" bla bla, then absolutely ok to generate such articles,
moreover it should be done wherever, whenever possible (like with the
Swedish lakes).

Having zillions of articles will generate a lot of new editors from the
simple fact that more people will have chance (and larger chance) to bump
into wiki articles while browsing the internet. Or in an easier form:
Wikipedia will reach more people by cover more and more topics in a more an
more detailed form.

The first problem, you mention is who will maintain them. Well, probably
those who join through this massive expansion; who are already interested
in butterflies and actively learning about them on the net. Or those who
find their favourite fishing lake on Wiki and add some pictures and a bit
more detailed info about them.

The other problem what you're describing is that all of these future new
editors will be "unqualified" (ni your wording "idiots") while all the
chapters are heavily working on "creating" qualified editors through their
various education programs.

My question is: is this really a problem? How many of you joined Wikipedia
after being "educated" how to edit and stuff and how many of you joined by
"bumping" into articles so many times that you've eventually started
editing them? How many of you started as "idiots"?

I did.

Balázs

[1]
http://sv.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Erysichton_elaborata&oldid=21735451



2013/6/17 Hubertl 

> Payin´ peanuts, gettin´ monkeys
>
> Servin´ facts, gettin´ idiots.
>
> An unmanageable, not maintainable mass of articles is the best way to
> breed idiots. Because facts do not create knowledge.
>
> If that is our goal, then automatically created Wikipedias ar the best way
> to solve one of our biggest problems, namely the permanent loss of authors.
>
> Maybe it is completely sufficient if you know that somewhere facts are
> stored in a most possible stupid form.
>
> I started more than fifty years ago learning about facts, facts without
> understanding. But nine years ago I startet to learn something about
> knowledge, understanding and correlations.
>
> Why do not you need people like me? If we have bots now?
>
> Do we want to make ourselves more important with impressive numbers?
>
> Hubertl!
>
> The german language Wikipedia has no single article that was generated by
> a bot. I'm proud of it. If this would take place in de:WP, many people will
> leave this project. With certainty.
>
> Anyway, that does not matter, a bot is probably much better for monkeys!
>
> Am 16.06.2013 14:51, schrieb Nurunnaby Chowdhury:
>
>  Congratulations swedish wikipedians
>>
>> *Nurunnaby Chowdhury Hasive*
>> Bangladesh Ambassador | Open Knowledge Network Foundation
>> (OKFN)
>> Auto-confirmed, Reviewer & Roll backer Editor | Bangla
>> Wikipedia
>> >
>> Treasurer & Coordinator (PR) | Bangladesh Open Source Network
>> (BdOSN)
>> Coordinator (PR) | Society for the Popularization of Science, Bangladesh
>> (SPSB) *
>> *Central Team MOVers | Bangladesh Mathematical Olympiad Committee
>> (BdMO)>
>> Facebook: fb.com/nhasive | Twitter:
>> @nhasive>|
>> Skype: nhasive |
>> www.nhasive.com
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Liam Wyatt  wrote:
>>
>>  grattis mina kompisar!
>>> *Jag känner en bott, hon heter Lsjbot, Lsjbot heter hon...*
>>>
>>> It looks like Polish will be the next to hit the symbolic number:
>>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/List_of_Wikipedias#100_**
>>> 000.2B_articles
>>>
>>> wittylama.com
>>> Peace, love & metadata
>>>
>>>
>>> On 16 June 2013 22:39, Tonmoy Khan  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Congratulations!!!

 Tonmoy
 On Jun 16, 2013 6:30 PM, "Patricio Lorente" >>> >
 wrote:

  Congratulations to the swedish wikipedians!
>
> 2013/6/16 Anders Wennersten :
>
>> Yesterday sv:wp reached 1 M articles. The one who did the passing
>>
> was a
>>>
 bot
>
>> generated article of a butterfly
>> http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Erysichton_elaborata
>> .
>>
>> The bot behind this article is Lsjbot who creates articles from the
>>
> database
>
>> Catalogue of Life
>> http://www.catalogueoflife.**org/services/res/2011AC_**26July.zipwhich
>> (complemented by other da

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Approval of Wikimedians of Nepal user group

[Balázs Viczián]

Congrats from WMHU too!

Balázs
2013.05.30. 20:58, "Salvador A"  ezt írta:

> Congratulations! Welcome to Wikimedia affilliates family. Count with
> Wikimedia Mexico as colaborator and with me as friend.
>
> Well done!
> El may 30, 2013 1:54 p.m., "Dennis Tobar" 
> escribió:
>
> > Yay!, Congrats to Wikimedians from Nepal!
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 2:40 PM, Arnau Duran 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Congratulations guys! wish you all the success!
> > >
> > >
> > > *Arnau Duran Ferrero
> > > *arnaudu...@gmail.com | www.arnauduran.net
> > > Telèfon personal: (+34) 696475418
> > > [image: Facebook]  [image:
> > > Twitter] [image:
> > > LinkedIn]  [image: Google
> > > Plus]
> > >
> > >
> > > 2013/5/30 Nurunnaby Chowdhury 
> > >
> > > > Congratulations Nepal team!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:37 PM, Ivan Martínez 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Welcome to board, friends.
> > > > > I know it has not been easy for Ganesh and to the Nepal team.
> > > > > Congrats!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2013/5/30 Tonmoy Khan 
> > > > >
> > > > > > Congratulations to Nepali Wikimedians!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ali Haidar Khan (Tonmoy)
> > > > > > Wikimedia Bangladesh
> > > > > > On May 30, 2013 11:12 PM, "Deryck Chan"  >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Congratulations Ganesh and the Nepal team! Are there plans to
> > move
> > > on
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > transition to an incorporated Wikimedia chapter?
> > > > > > > Deryck
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 30 May 2013 17:32, Bence Damokos 
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dear all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am happy to inform you that the Affiliations Committee has
> > > > approved
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > recognition of a Wikimedia User Group today:  Wikimedians of
> > > Nepal.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please join me in welcoming this new group into the fold of
> > > > Wikimedia
> > > > > > > > entities, and let's celebrate their success and hard work as
> > > > > Wikipedia
> > > > > > > > turns eleven in Nepal!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > == Wikimedians of Nepal ==
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wikimedians of Nepal <
> > > > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Nepal
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > group of enthusiastic Nepali Wikimedians working towards
> > > developing
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > promoting Wikimedia projects in Nepal. They've been actively
> > > > working
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > help expand the community, launch projects in more languages
> of
> > > > Nepal
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > promote and support the existing ones.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The group is working towards chapterhood, and have a good
> > chance
> > > of
> > > > > > > > attaining that status this year. Granting them user group
> > > > recognition
> > > > > > > > allows the movement to express its appreciation for their
> hard
> > > work
> > > > > > even
> > > > > > > > while they are working on the bureaucratic aspects of meeting
> > the
> > > > > > > > requirements of chapterhood. The timing is fortuitous  in
> that
> > > the
> > > > > > group
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > going to mark the 11th anniversary of Wikipedia in a Nepali
> > > > language
> > > > > > on 3
> > > > > > > > June, next Monday.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ganesh, the group's interim president has been invited to
> this
> > > > year's
> > > > > > > Milan
> > > > > > > > conference, where he gave a comprehensive overview of the
> > group's
> > > > > > > history,
> > > > > > > > its projects (including a successful 'wikiwomen" programme)
> and
> > > its
> > > > > > > > ambitions. The slides are at:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/WMNepal_WMC_2013.pdf
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Affiliations Committee's
> > > > > > > > recognition<
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Wikimedians_of_Nepal_-_May_2013
> > > > > > > > >is
> > > > > > > > valid until 28 May 2014, or until they are recognized as a
> > > chapter.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > == Wikimedia User Groups ==
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia User Groups are one of the three new types of
> > > > affiliations
> > > > > > > > created last year to empower volunteers wanting to conduct
> > > offline
> > > > > work
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > provide them recognition from the Wikimedia movement.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > User group status is meant to be an easy form of affiliation,
> > > where
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > main requirements are an agreed goal, plans for offline work,
> > at
> > > > > least
> > > > > > > > three people participating and a public wiki page with all
> the
> > > > > relevan

Re: [Wikimedia-l] making tech journalism easier to read

[Balázs Viczián]

uh... tech speak in general is usually like Marsian to me, even if it is in
my own language... might worth to put an effort into translating from geek
to human (like "obvious" things that are really not so obvious for the
masses) as well if you wish to improve readability :)

Balazs


2013/5/21 Quim Gil 

> On 05/20/2013 08:45 PM, Sumana Harihareswara wrote:
>
>> When you're trying to write a blog.wikimedia.org entry or
>> wikitech-ambassadors email about a technical topic, but you want to make
>> sure nontechnical Wikimedians can read it, is there an automated check
>> you can run through?
>>
>> For general readability we have 
>> http://www.readability-score.**com/
>>
>
> But all those indexes have nothing to do with technical or non-technical
> content or readers. They will tell long sentences with long words are bad,
> short sentences with short words are good - tech aspects aside.
>
> "Americans consume significant quantities of chocolate"
>
> REALLY BAD!
>
> Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease -39
>
> Grade Levels
> Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level  20.2
> Gunning-Fog Score   22.4
> Coleman-Liau Index  31.3
> SMOG Index  11.6
> Automated Readability Index 19.3
> Average Grade Level 21.0
>
>
> "Set up git and fork the master repo"
>
> VERY GOOD!
>
> Flesch-Kincaid Reading Ease 93
>
> Grade Levels
> Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level  2.3
> Gunning-Fog Score   3.2
> Coleman-Liau Index  4.8
> SMOG Index  1.8
> Automated Readability Index -0.9
> Average Grade Level 2.2
>
>
>
>  Aside from general readability, I also want to be careful about using
>> jargon, and substitute more accessible terminology where possible. I may
>> whip up a script to check whether some text has words from
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Glossaryand
>>  the other site glossaries
>> in it, unless someone has a better idea.
>>
>
> "The master branch of the git repository" is clearly non suitable for the
> beginning of an article, but there is nothing wrong in writing exactly that
> deeper in the text, at the right time and in the right context for the
> right audience.
>
> Not all readers must/will read all articles entirely. You don't want to
> throw casual readers into complex text, but you don't want to deceive more
> specialist readers with generic words when precise terms exist and that
> audience is familiar with them.
>
> Good journalism is mostly about a lead paragraph for the masses followed
> by an increasingly dense body text (aka the 5 Ws and the inverted pyramid).
> You can adapt and change these rules at will, as long as you are aware of
> them.
>
> Paying more editorial attention to the title and the lead will allow more
> room for complex terminology down in the body text. And this applies to
> technical posts just as much as to other posts about other expert fields
> for librarians, translators, lawyers, educators...
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**5_Ws 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Inverted_pyramid
>
> --
> Quim Gil
> Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/**User:Qgil
>
>
> __**_
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> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org 
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimania, or other events done by a third party?

[Balázs Viczián]

Hello everyone,

Wikimedia Hungary has recieved an interesting "sales pitch" today if we can
call a two liner that.

One of the largest Hungarian travelling agency's department (or
subsidiary?) for conference tourism have expressed interest in organizing a
Wikimania in Budapest, Hungary in 2015 in cooperation with WMHU. (My
understanding is that WMHU would be a content advisor or similar in it)
They've expressed interest in individual workshops as well (of course).

They've emailed us the bidding page for Wikimania 2015 [1] and the blog
entry about the Program Evaluation Workshop that will be held in June in
Budapest [2] (I guess) to underline their interest (and inadvertently
highlight they're actively monitioring these events)

I believe you already have the questions in your mind about this; here are
my ones:

1) What if a third party applies to create an event? (like a workshop or
Wikimania)

It is not prohibited for a for profit company to create a bid, nor they
have the necessity to consult or cooperate with any of the chapters (though
it is almost certain that they'll get some wikip/medians to help with the
content). There are many workshops and meetups where Wikipedia is being
discussed or being the topic without having any wikim/pedians speaking or
attending, but something like a workshop, or Wikimania would be an
"internal event" (even if maximum possible outreach is the ultimate goal in
the latter)

1/b) What if their bid is the best overall? Would they be allowed to
execute it (a.k.a. being announced winners)?

note these bids would not be coming from the local communities as they are
coming now, but from outside.

1/c) What if such a bid comes from a country where is no chapter formed yet
(or a non active or too small /or etc./ exists)?

Given the fact that Wikimania is so far the best local outreach tool of the
movement, creating one in a country with small, or struggling (for whatever
reasons) communities/chapters could result in a huge boost of that
community/chapter. (it would be nice to know btw the aftereffects of the
previous Wikimanias on the organizing chapters if it was ever measured)

2) Could it be an option for future bidders to outsource some or (almost)
all parts of the organization/catering/other tasks to a third party
(outside of the movement) keeping only the content management to themselves
?

The (future?) Wikimania Committee is in broader terms an officially not
registered - internal - project company to help creating future Wikimanias
in general.


Feel free to add your questions, while answering mines and others' :)

Cheers,
Balázs

[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015_bids
[2]
http://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/05/09/program-evaluation-workshop-budapest/
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Effectiveness of meetings (Was: Affcom ...)

[Balázs Viczián]

Theoratically every penny spent should be measured wheter it was spent
well, or was wasted, including salaries. Ideally you could find out all the
direct and indirect investment in a given program. Since the latter is
extremely hard (or impossible) to measure, it is always an estimated extra
cost.

The emphasis here is not on the programs a meetup may trigger, but the
meetup itself; its effectiveness. (it is a program itself)

Regarding evalulation of programs through a meetup's perspective (if I
understood your words correctly), there is no point going any deeper than
the name of it, the type of it, and a note that it was"done", "in progress"
, "failed" or "postponed" as of the date of publishing. Details should be
carefully adjusted for all questions you wish to answer.

90% of evaluating an event is actually done through surveys collected from
participants on site (!) and after a given period (somewhere between three
to six month),  by evaluating the answers and feedbacks you collect
_proactively_ (a.k.a. "by asking") The rest 10% is an evaluation summary of
the catering, the venue and the executing staff. Six month later a summary
was published and an evaluation meetup was held before we started
organizing the next similar event (what's content was heavily influenced by
that that report).

Cheers,
Balázs


2013/5/14 Lodewijk 

> I totally understand (or rather, I think I do). However, just like with any
> project, also such calculations would be subject to cost/benefit ratios.
> What information do you expect to win, and how much overhead does it
> create? It sounds great to be able to put a number on things, but up to a
> certain size, things will be mostly intangible anyway (enthusiasm,
> inspiration etc.) so you will have little valuable output of such
> measurements, while the costs are relatively high (they need to learn speak
> your measure language, they need to understand concepts, document
> thoroughly, measure etc.) and for small events that seems unreasonable to
> me to expect it from them - such as with the article writing contests in
> 'new' countries.
>
> However, this is of course different for large international events with
> many participants. Anyway, I am glad to hear you're not trying to compare
> different categories of events with each other.
>
> Lodewijk
>
>
> 2013/5/14 Balázs Viczián 
>
> > I see a few misunderstanding here: I do not wish to compare them to each
> > other, but to the previous one(s). At least I hope this is what I've
> > written because this is what I was ment. So compare GLAM 2013 to GLAM
> 2012,
> > and GLAM 2011, ..., compare Brussels meetup with previous similar
> thematic
> > meetups and so forth. Create a breakdown about the costs and the
> benefits.
> > Aimed at GLAM? then the main thing to measue how did it boost GLAM
> > cooperations. Is there any initiative that had been picked up or created
> > upon the inspiration they got there? If yes, how much? What types? What
> are
> > their outcomes? Any other side goals (like international cooperations -
> > like a new WLM participant who decided to join after discussions there)?
> > Any other unexpected benefits? (like an out of the blue content donation
> > from a participating G,L,A or M representative) etc. Easy to identify a
> > dozen questions, plus if you start thinking it over, you'll find a dozen
> > more that are as well pretty important, just not that much visible or in
> > front. Count them and divide the total number with the total costs, and
> > you'll get how much was invested in a single initiative there.
> >
> > If an idea was brought home by a chapter from that event (or the local
> > ideas have been influenced by it), note even if locally it would cost
> > almost nothing, on an absolute level, there is this cost/benefit ratio,
> > both the chapter's and the event's, what you have to further divide it
> > locally amongst the number of projects. If an example helps you, lets say
> > you brought home 2 article writing contest ideas, both of them conducted
> > and did cost nothing, except a few merchandise (total of 200USD) your
> > travel and stay there should be added to the total costs, since without
> it,
> > these would likely never been conducted at you. Hence the absolute
> numbers
> > would include your flight and stay in London, divided equally in between
> > the projects that meeting inspired. Got me?
> >
> > Balázs
> >
> >
> > 2013/5/14 Lodewijk 
> >
> > > I think this is very true, and we could perhaps improve our procedures
> > and
> > > documentation in many ways. However,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Effectiveness of meetings (Was: Affcom ...)

[Balázs Viczián]

I see a few misunderstanding here: I do not wish to compare them to each
other, but to the previous one(s). At least I hope this is what I've
written because this is what I was ment. So compare GLAM 2013 to GLAM 2012,
and GLAM 2011, ..., compare Brussels meetup with previous similar thematic
meetups and so forth. Create a breakdown about the costs and the benefits.
Aimed at GLAM? then the main thing to measue how did it boost GLAM
cooperations. Is there any initiative that had been picked up or created
upon the inspiration they got there? If yes, how much? What types? What are
their outcomes? Any other side goals (like international cooperations -
like a new WLM participant who decided to join after discussions there)?
Any other unexpected benefits? (like an out of the blue content donation
from a participating G,L,A or M representative) etc. Easy to identify a
dozen questions, plus if you start thinking it over, you'll find a dozen
more that are as well pretty important, just not that much visible or in
front. Count them and divide the total number with the total costs, and
you'll get how much was invested in a single initiative there.

If an idea was brought home by a chapter from that event (or the local
ideas have been influenced by it), note even if locally it would cost
almost nothing, on an absolute level, there is this cost/benefit ratio,
both the chapter's and the event's, what you have to further divide it
locally amongst the number of projects. If an example helps you, lets say
you brought home 2 article writing contest ideas, both of them conducted
and did cost nothing, except a few merchandise (total of 200USD) your
travel and stay there should be added to the total costs, since without it,
these would likely never been conducted at you. Hence the absolute numbers
would include your flight and stay in London, divided equally in between
the projects that meeting inspired. Got me?

Balázs


2013/5/14 Lodewijk 

> I think this is very true, and we could perhaps improve our procedures and
> documentation in many ways. However, I do think it is important to realize
> that you're comparing apples with oranges here. The meeting in Brussels for
> example was on the topic of influencing legislative processes - a topic by
> definition long term and hard to measure. The goals there would be better
> (copyright) legislation than without these initiatives - and rather
> strategic. The bootcamp in DC was intended as a boost for volunteers, where
> they would get a lot of information and experience in a short time:
> capacity building. This is also long term, but much better to measure. And
> finally there's the hackathon, which is much more short-term focused (at
> least partially), and will have very concrete results (but probably zero
> measured in new articles created).
>
> What I think is most important, is that for every meeting we have, we
> identify desired outcomes. These outcomes can be very tangible, or
> intangible - but they should always be defined, and the agenda should be
> built around it.
> Based on these desired outcomes, you can estimate up front if the meeting
> is likely to be 'worth it'. If not, you can reduce the costs, increase the
> outcomes (different setup) or cancel all together.
> Finally, after the meeting a report (private or public - there should
> always be a report or documentation) should be produced and if possible
> published. In that report you should always return to these desired
> outcomes, and see if they were met - and how/why not.
>
> But even then on the strategy side of things meetings are always hard to
> estimate.
>
> Of course you're totally right that there are expectations towards
> participants of meetings. Not only because of the money invested, but also
> because of the attention of the other participants. I definitely have been
> in meetings where people literally fell asleep or played games during the
> meeting - and that is simply insulting to the other people in the room. So
> yeah, if that is your mindset, perhaps it is better not to go at all. But
> then I am assuming good faith, and think that everyone will be going to
> meetings with the best of intentions, and not simply to play tourist.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> 2013/5/14 Balázs Viczián 
>
> > 40k for a single meetup can be justified if the results worth that much
> > money. (I've already argued about this regarding Milan chapters meetup
> > btw). Providing a "more than basic" travel and accomodation can be a way
> of
> > appreciation as well for their work, what they do as volunteers, that
> > should be calculated into the costs.
> >
> > Ain't these intrenational events' (not just this meetup's, but all
> events')
> > "success ratio&q

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

[Balázs Viczián]

40k for a single meetup can be justified if the results worth that much
money. (I've already argued about this regarding Milan chapters meetup
btw). Providing a "more than basic" travel and accomodation can be a way of
appreciation as well for their work, what they do as volunteers, that
should be calculated into the costs.

Ain't these intrenational events' (not just this meetup's, but all events')
"success ratio" being measured by some way already?

The cost/benefit ratio [1] is a pretty basic (and extreme important) thing
we like to calculate with here in Hungary about all of our activities. For
example the number of articles created divided with the total costs of the
article writing contest they've been created within gives a number we can
work a lot with to improve cost-effectiveness. Seemingly very few chapters
doing anything similar (or not in a visible way)

AffCom already measures itself in some ways in their reports, but regarding
other meetups, I've barely seen at least a basic followup or aftercare and
especially not a detailed overall (measurement) report what is usually /at
least in those commercial events I was involved with/ being published after
about six month of the last day of the event, and gives a detailed summary
of its pros and cons, dos and don'ts, successes and fails, overall impact
(upon proactively collected feedbacks), etc.

There were plenty of international events already this year (Brussels
meeting about EU policies, Milan, London glam, Amsterdam hackathon that are
coming in my mind right now from 2013, and this is just the first 4 month
(only 1/3rd of the year) and not the full list!) most of them with no or
very low visible results yet (ok they need some time to evolve, but
regarding events in 2012, I barely read anything to remember nor any
followups or summares, reports). Compared to the "GLAM camp" in the US
recently, it seems definitely true. The latter looks like a very good
example of a beneficial meetup, having a lot of potential and it seems
there is a chance that it will be followed up by WMDC and other
participating parties well after the event. Why to have a long term
followup? To give a definite answer wheter those potentials actually
resulted in anything at all (was there any "real benefit") or it was just a
very good mooded, fun and positive, but totally fruitless event (wasted
money from the movement's POV)

I see compared to 2012 costs going up without any visible rise in
effectiveness or more worse, a decline in it. This is solely based upon
what I can (or can not) read about them on meta and other places, like the
comments here. Wikimania 2014 was the first event ever where this thing was
taken seriously, but rather on the cost cutting side, than on the
effectiveness improving side

It would be great to see detailed measurements of these events, like how
many new projects or international cooperations (or whatever it aims) were
boosted/inspired by the given thematic meetup up until the next similar
meetup. If that number is X, while the costs were Y, and X/Y does not look
good,  than you can start thinking how can you improve X without expanding
Y (or even lowering it) to get a much friendly ratio, thus creating an even
more fruitful (better quality) event next time. The best would be a
detailed breakdown, like main goals, side goals, unexpected or "extra"
things that that meeting had inspired/boosted/hosted/etc.

Note, there ain't no such thing as free lunch [2]

Cheers,
Balázs

PS: WMHU has 68k budget for 2013.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit%E2%80%93cost_ratio
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain%27t_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch



2013/5/14 Lodewijk 

> I don't think it is trivial either, and having a discussion is fine.
> However, the bigger discussion is perhaps more relevant - because AffCom is
> simply following WMF policy here, which is in place for many employees,
> board members (and others? not sure).
>
> So I think there are two relevant discussions to be had: First of all,
> whether there should be an AffCom meeting at all. Fair question of course.
> (analogous you could wonder if certain chapters should really send a
> representative to Wikimania from their budget, whether certain employees
> really should be there and whether all chapters should be present at the
> Chapters meeting - all fair discussions to be had in their time, too). The
> second relevant question is, in my opinion, whether the WMF travel policy
> is good, proportional etc. This policy has mostly received criticism from
> two sides - some think it is too elaborate, and WMF should get 'less
> luxury' (again fair discussion, but we should then focus on the whole
> question) - another criticism is that it should be equalized for all
> Wikimedia-sponsored trips, including individual engagement grants, trips to
> the chapters meeting etc. When this question was brought up last time, I
> believe it was Sue who mentioned that this would simply result in much le

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Selection of winning bid for Wikimania 2014: London

[Balázs Viczián]

Congrats from WMHU and thanks for the mug! :)

Balázs

2013/5/2 Tonmoy Khan 

> Congratulations to WMUK & London! Wish all the success for Wikimania 2014.
>
> Cheers
> Tonmoy
> On May 2, 2013 4:07 AM, "Charles Gregory"  wrote:
>
> > Congratulations WMUK and the London 2014 team!  Thanks also to the Arusha
> > bid - hopefully there will be another opportunity in the future!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Charles / User:Chuq
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:30 AM, Markus Glaser <
> markus.gla...@wikimedia.de
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Congratulations, London and WMUK! Looking foward to a Wikimania in a
> city
> > > I already lived in ;) And my respect and many thanks to Arusha /
> > Tanzania.
> > > I would have loved to go to Africa this time and I really think the
> > > Movement should make some efforts to make something like this happen in
> > the
> > > future.
> > >
> > > Best, Markus
> > >
> > > Am 01.05.2013 22:22, schrieb Patricio Lorente:
> > >
> > >  Congratulations, London! See you there!
> > >>
> > >> Patricio
> > >>
> > >> 2013/5/1 Dhaval S. Vyas :
> > >>
> > >>> Congratulations UK! So happy with the news, after all wikimania is
> > >>> coming at
> > >>> our doorstep...
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Katie Chan <
> > katie.c...@wikimedia.org.uk>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> >  Congratulations to everyone who's been involved with the London bid.
> > 
> >  Looking forward to seeing many of you in London next year!
> > 
> > 
> >  On 1 May 2013 18:10, James Forrester  wrote:
> > 
> > > Dear Wikimedians,
> > >
> > > On behalf of the Wikimania 2014 selection Jury, after review and
> > > evaluation of the two final bids, we have awarded the conference to
> > > London. Congratulations to the London team, and to the Arusha team
> > who
> > > also put forward a solid effort.
> > >
> > > We were concerned this year to see that both bidding teams put
> > forward
> > > proposals which were costly and complicated, in contrast to the
> > > Wikimania tradition. The Jury briefly considered re-opening the bid
> > > for other teams, and asked both bids to present a simpler core
> budget
> > > and lower-cost options for attendees.
> > >
> > > The London team took our comments to heart and decreased their core
> > > budget to 20% of their initial proposal, and have committed to
> > finding
> > > ways to reduce the cost for community attendees.
> > >
> > > We encourage future bidding teams to not give up their dreams, to
> > keep
> > > aiming for the stars, but at the same time, to not forget the
> spirit
> > > of Wikimedia: a volunteer movement that makes creative use of
> limited
> > > resources. We look forward to the proposed Wikimania Committee
> > setting
> > > out clearer guidelines on these principles.
> > >
> > > The process to bid for hosting Wikimania requires a substantial
> time
> > > investment, and we thank both candidate teams for their submissions
> > > and hard work.
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > >
> > > James Forrester
> > > Moderator, Wikimania 2014 Jury
> > > For the Wikimania 2014 Jury
> > > --
> > > James D. Forrester
> > > jdforres...@gmail.com
> > > [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|**James F.]] (speaking purely in a
> > > personal
> > > capacity)
> > >
> > > __**_
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org  >
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/**
> > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l<
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  --
> >  Katie Chan
> >  Volunteer Support Organiser
> >  Wikimedia UK
> >  +44 (0) 20 7065 0990
> >  +44 (0) 7885 980 534
> > 
> >  Wikimedia UK is a Charitable Company registered in England and
> Wales.
> >  Registered Company No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
> >  Registered Office: 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard
> Street,
> >  London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom.
> >  Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
> >  Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
> >  Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> > 
> >  Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal
> > control
> >  over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
> > 
> > 
> >  __**_
> >  Wikimania-l mailing list
> >  Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.**org 
> >  https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l<
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
> > 
> > 
> > >>> __**_
> > >>> Wikimania-l mailing list
> > >>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.*

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The one-employee secretariat model

[Balázs Viczián]

I've discussed this issue in my state of the movement presentation [1]
summing up our experiences so far.

Balazs

[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:State_of_WMHU.pdf


2013.05.02. 0:36, "Tomasz Ganicz"  ezt írta:
>
> 2013/5/1 Florence Devouard :
>
> >
> > True. Not all associations are looking for such support and indeed, the
> > association needs to show a decent amount of activity to make it worth
it.
> >
> > Note that in many cases, the secretary hired for such positions is NOT a
> > student, but rather an experienced person willing and able to do
> > multitasking stuff in an autonomous manner and rather looking for a
> > long-term position. This balances the fact the volunteers come and go
and
> > that the board term is often for a limited time (2 or 3 terms maximum).
This
> > secretary provides an unvaluable element of stability.
>
> In our case (Wikimedia Polska) we were very careful with hiring. The
> idea appeared around 2009, but there was no money for both having an
> office and paid secretary at that time and it was decided that it
> hardly make sense to have empty office or paid secretary working at
> home. Next year we had enough money for both. Before hiring we had
> made of list of duties and a list of skills needed for doing this
> duties. Our first secretary was hired only for a year contract and for
> part time (3 days a week  4 hours of work in the office + some duties
> outside the office). Our first secretary was mainly working as a
> attorney's assistant and work for us was just her extra job. She left
> us after a year, as demanded by her attorney boss. Then we hired the
> next person - with some modified list of duties and skills needed -
> for 4  days of week, still 4 hours of work in an office). Finally -
> just in the middle of last year we decided to employ the secretary for
> full time. It was decided due to gradual increase of our activity
> which need more paper work.
>
>
>
> --
> Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

[Balázs Viczián]

Is there any (un)official policy/strong advice/anything against direct
hiring from WMF/FDC/whatever grants?

Balazs


2013/4/30 Dariusz Jemielniak 

> hi Jeromy-Yu,
>
> thank you for sharing this personal note.
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan <
> jerry.tschan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > As we aware of problem, we are run out of way to improve, it is
> bottleneck
> > we need to tackle. So the FDC decision  suggests chapter like us should
> > never professionalize? Or never hire staff? Or never apply grant? As
> > without staffing we dun think we can really have a change, as everyone
> had
> > to spent at least 60 hours a week for work and studies.
> >
>
> I hope it is clear that the FDC decision DOES NOT suggest that you should
> never professionalize at all, or hire staff, etc. This decision is related
> only to your submitted project (its content, the evaluated impact, as well
> as volume - you applied for over 200,000 USD to start with; as well as the
> estimated capacity to deal with the project's scale, responsibilities,
> etc.).
>
> I also encourage you to go through the comments from the deliberation:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal/FDC_recommendations/2012-2013_round2#Comments_from_the_deliberation
>
>
> > But the immediate effect of this (I-would-call-in-a-community-aspect)
> > irresponsible decision is not just kill off the chance of development,
> the
> > worse is liquidating the faith of volunteers.
> >
>
> I'm really very sorry to hear that and I assure you that it has never been
> our intention to undermine the spirit of volunteers. On the contrary, the
> volunteer work is something you shine in, and Wikimania organization is
> something everybody on the FDC has been really impressed with. However, I
> also hope you realize that the project evaluation has to be done basing on
> its own merits, and it did not include Wikimania at all (funded
> separately).
>
> best,
>
> dariusz ("pundit")
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The value of Wikipedia for the economy

[Balázs Viczián]

Just measure up the "homework-for-hire market", what Wikipedia had almost
ruined; that would be already millions of $ worldwide :)

B.

2013/4/8 Lodewijk 

> However, those numbers are not exactly what I'm looking for. I do not want
> to know what it would be worth as a company, or how much people are willing
> to pay for it. But how big is the impact? How much positive value does
> Wikipedia add to the world economy? I hope this number is significantly
> higher than what people would be willing to donate (although it would give
> a far low minimum).
>
>
> 2013/4/8 Anders Wennersten 
>
> > In preparation of the strategic planning a few years ago, we at the Audi
> > committee made some calculation to estimate the theoretical potential of
> > donation from different perspectives, like what other NGO got.
> >
> > We then come to the standpoint that the potential was several times that
> > of 2009-2010 donations. We have now already doubled that amount, and
> > perhaps we are getting closer to the theoretical potential, but this
> gives
> > the estimate of a potential donation of something between 50-200 MUSD.
> And
> > the benefit must surely be a few times of the potential donations, So a
> > rough estimate of benefit based on this reasoning would be in the
> magnitude
> > of 100-500 MUSD/year
> > Anders
> >
> >
> > Andrew Gray skrev 2013-04-08 14:36:
> >
> >  The Economist had an estimate recently:
> >>
> >> http://www.economist.com/news/**finance-and-economics/**
> >> 21573091-how-quantify-gains-**internet-has-brought-**
> >> consumers-net-benefits<
> http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21573091-how-quantify-gains-internet-has-brought-consumers-net-benefits
> >
> >> http://www.economist.com/**blogs/freeexchange/2013/03/**technology-2<
> http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2013/03/technology-2>
> >>
> >> - of approximately $50m "value" to readers. It's a pretty vague
> >> estimate, but it's an interesting start.
> >>
> >> Andrew.
> >>
> >> On 8 April 2013 13:28, Lodewijk  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> Last weekend we had a discussion about how to 'sell' the importance of
> >>> Wikipedia to economics-focused people (a.k.a. politicians etc), and the
> >>> question came up on how much Wikipedia contributes to the global
> economy.
> >>> Many people access it daily, and the information they get from that
> might
> >>> help them to run businesses, be more efficient etc. Third world
> countries
> >>> (and maybe even the rest of the world) might have better educated
> people
> >>> thanks to Wikipedia, which might make better and more efficient
> workers,
> >>> higher literacy and cheaper university educations.
> >>>
> >>> Has there been any scientific (or other) research on the effect
> Wikipedia
> >>> has (or had) on the world economy, or even the economy of a specific
> >>> country/region? There are some numbers what Wikipedia would be 'worth'
> if
> >>> it were a commercial company, but that is not what I'm looking for.
> What
> >>> is
> >>> Wikipedia worth to society, the way it currently runs.
> >>>
> >>> Alternatively, are there similar studies to other knowledge
> compendiums,
> >>> or
> >>> even 'the internet'?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for any pointers!
> >>>
> >>> Lodewijk
> >>> __**_
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> >>> Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l<
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > __**_
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Gadgets

[Balázs Viczián]

I'd love to see this available to buy as a T-shirt: [1] and these posters
[2] (here, in Hungary we have plans to do both)

btw Wikimedia Hungary had some own merchandise too [3]

[1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_-_T-shirt.jpg
[2] http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bookshelf#Posters
[3] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Hungary_merchandise

cheers,
Balázs
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hour inside out (program evaluation)

[Balázs Viczián]

I'd rather be interested in how do you measure _success_ (this question is
for everybody)

Balazs


2013/3/29 Everton Zanella Alvarenga 

> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 3:30 PM, ENWP Pine 
> wrote:
>
> > May I ask, if you're working on things like the Learning Portal, what
> > are Frank and other people within the programs and evaluations
> > group working on? I'm interested in seeing a list of the current
> > initiatives, what their goals are, when they started, who the task
> > leads are, and what progress has been made so far. I think Frank's
> > appointment was in August 2012 and it would be great to get an
> > overview about what's been happening in Programs and Evaluations
> > a since then. I've been hoping to see that information in the WMF
> > monthly reports but I've seen surprisingly little info in the
> > past few reports.
>
> I also would like to know that.
>
> Tom
>
> --
> Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom)
> "A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more
> useful than a life spent doing nothing."
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Wikimedia Armenia

[Balázs Viczián]

Congrats from Hungary!

cheers,
Balázs

2013/3/27 Bence Damokos 

> Dear all,
>
> I am happy to announce that the the WMF Board of Trustees have resolved to
> recognize Wikimedia Armenia as the newest Wikimedia chapter:
>
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Recognition_of_Wikimedia_Armenia
>
> This group has  already put a lot of effort into promoting Wikipedia and
> the other projects in Armenia on their road to recognition and I am really
> looking forward to hearing of their future endeavours.
>
> Please give a warm welcome to Wikimedia Armenia!
>
> Best regards,
> Bence
> (Affiliations Committee)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hour inside out (program evaluation)

[Balázs Viczián]

Hello everyone,

I've read the log of this conversation; is there any success ratio set
already?

If not, might be good to take the ratio of how many new registrations are
becoming regular contributors. (if 1/100 new registrations, then 1%)

The general online marketing success ratio is somewhere around 1-3%,
depending on the product, the tools used and other circumstances (e.g. if a
random direct marketing campaign return exceeds 0.12% it is already a
success)

cheers,
Balázs


2013/3/21 ENWP Pine 

>
> > Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:31:57 -0700
> > From: Frank Schulenburg 
> > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Tomorrow: Office hour inside out (program
> >   evaluation)
> > Message-ID:
> >   <
> cakoobqbk6rcui1bthp41mbvjtdzdqvvsjrlgsfywxuuogap...@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > Tomorrow at 17:00 UTC, I will be holding an office hour about program
> > evaluation on #wikimedia-office. The target audience for this office
> > hour will be chapter representatives and volunteers who are currently
> > running (or planning to run) programs and programmatic activities.
> > You'll find some background information about why program evaluation
> > might be worth talking about in my most recent blog post on the
> > Foundation's blog:
> >
> >
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/03/01/lets-start-talking-about-program-evaluation/
> >
> > As we all know, most office hours follow a certain rule: there's one
> > poor staffer who is getting grilled by the people on the IRC channel –
> > people ask a variety of questions and the staff person tries to answer
> > every question in a limited amount of time. It's a lot of fun (I
> > guess, at least for the people who're asking the questions) and it has
> > been a good way of direct communication between WMF employees and the
> > community.
> >
> > Now, this office hour will be different. Not that I don't enjoy being
> > grilled for one hour :-) I've done IRC office hours several times
> > before and I always enjoyed answering questions. The reason for this
> > office hour to be different is that I want to _listen to you in the
> > first place_. I would like to learn more about
> >
> > * _your_ thoughts about why evaluation might be important
> > * _your_ experiences with making evaluation a part of program design
> > * _your_ hopes and fears when it comes to increasingly evaluating
> > programs and programmatic activities in the future
> > * _your_ ideas and feedback on evaluation practices
> >
> > Ideally, we would have some people in the room tomorrow who have done
> > some kind evaluation in the past or who are planning to embark on
> > evaluation work in the near future. With that said – if you have no
> > idea about what program evaluation is and you'd like to learn more
> > about it, you're invited as well! Or maybe you're just curious to see
> > if this "office hour inside out" is going to play out well ;-)
> >
> > I'm looking forward to meeting you tomorrow at 17:00 UTC,
> >
> > Frank
> >
> >
> >
>
> I'd encourage people who are interested in this subject
> to read up on program management and related subjects.
> This sort of management has been studied extensively in
> academia and in business, and in some ways I feel that
> WMF has catch-up work to do and lacks expertise,
> although I'm hopeful that WMF is trying to improve
> in this area.
>
> I'd also suggest that people read the report about
> projects that encountered significant problems at
> WMF, particularly the IEP, and a more recent example
> is the mixed reception to AFT5. I hope that program
> managers at WMF learn both good practices and what
> to avoid. I also hope that WMF ties program metrics
> to evaluations for the responsible supervisors when
> considering whether to continue or renew
> employment contracts, as well as when
> considering promotions.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Pine
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Hungary expanding

[Balázs Viczián]

thanks! She's a lady; yep her name is Andrea Tóth :)

Cheers,
Balázs



2013/3/22 Cornelius Kibelka 

> Nice!, congrats to WMHU!
>
> Does he have a name, this employee? Is it Andrea Toth? (thx to Google
> Translate).
>
> Cheers,
> Cornelius
>
> 
> Cornelius Kibelka
>
> Twitter: @jaancornelius
> Mobile: +49-1520-7226062
>
>
> On 22 March 2013 10:29, Balázs Viczián 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Wikimedia Hungary had rented its first office (33sqm or 350sq feet, good
> > for meetings up to 20~25ppl) and hired its first full time
> (administrative)
> > employee, so I'm happy to tell you, if you'll ever happen to be in or
> > around Budapest, feel free to drop by in our
> > office<
> >
> https://maps.google.com/maps?q=1075+Budapest,+Mad%C3%A1ch+Imre+t%C3%A9r+4.&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=47.497648,19.057084&spn=0.004147,0.004823&hnear=1075+Budapest,+VII.+ker%C3%BClet,+Mad%C3%A1ch+Imre+t%C3%A9r+4&gl=en&t=h&z=18&iwloc=A
> > >
> >  :)
> >
> > (just don't forget to tell, if you're coming at out of office hours :P)
> >
> > cheers :)
> >
> > *Balazs Viczian*
> > Executive Vice President
> > *Wikimédia Magyarország*
> >
> > Tel: +36 70 633 6372
> > Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
> > Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazin<
> > http://huwiki.blogspot.hu>
> > Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia <https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia>
> > ___
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> >
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Hungary expanding

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi everyone,

Wikimedia Hungary had rented its first office (33sqm or 350sq feet, good
for meetings up to 20~25ppl) and hired its first full time (administrative)
employee, so I'm happy to tell you, if you'll ever happen to be in or
around Budapest, feel free to drop by in our
office
 :)

(just don't forget to tell, if you're coming at out of office hours :P)

cheers :)

*Balazs Viczian*
Executive Vice President
*Wikimédia Magyarország*

Tel: +36 70 633 6372
Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazin
Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia Zero wins!

[Balázs Viczián]

Didn't know, the last time I was working for the Brazilian market was in
2011; should update my knowledge :)

Balázs

2013/3/17 James Alexander 

> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 12:53 AM, Balázs Viczián <
> balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu> wrote:
>
> > the favorit social media site in Brazil is Orkut. Far far more popular
> than
> > facebook. If you wish to have a strong social media presence there,
> you'll
> > have to be present on that.
> >
> > cheers, Balázs
>
>
>
>  Tom or someone else from Brazi would know better then me I'm sure but that
> doesn't seem to have been true since 2011 (
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/ricardogeromel/2011/09/14/facebook-surpasses-orkut-owned-by-google-in-numbers-of-users-in-brazil/
> )
> . Looking at the numbers now (
> http://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/BR) looks like FB is the #1 site
> now (of course, it IS Alexa ;) ).
>
> James
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia Zero wins!

[Balázs Viczián]

the favorit social media site in Brazil is Orkut. Far far more popular than
facebook. If you wish to have a strong social media presence there, you'll
have to be present on that.

cheers, Balázs
2013.03.16. 14:17, "Everton Zanella Alvarenga"  ezt írta:

> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 4:17 AM, Fabrice Florin 
> wrote:
>
> > I'm so happy for everyone -- particularly for all the folks in the
> > developing world who are now getting access to free knowledge they
> wouldn't
> > otherwise have.
>
> This news was posted on facebook and a guy from Angola just asked when
> it will be available there for the Portuguese Wikipedia as well
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/wikipediapt/posts/228266030650914?comment_id=947903&offset=0&total_comments=2
>
> Kul, maybe it would be more useful for Angola and Mozambique than the
> Banana Republic. :)
>
> When I do the hangouts with Angolans and Mozambicans (on my spare
> time, sure), [Note] I'll analyse this to have a better insight. ;)
>
> Tom
>
> [Note] The statistics of a facebook page (led by volunteers) of the
> Portuguese Wikipedia [1]  has shown some curious numbers because
> people who usually like it are from Luanda and Maputo cities in
> Africa, I've shared this information with some wikipedians [2]
> (obviously further analysis on this data with other methods is
> necessary) and invited experienced editors to participate of google
> hangouts where we are going to invite people from these countries to
> explain about Wikipedia and the Education Program. [3]
>
> Just to you have an idea, Luanda (population ~5 mi) has about 1.700
> people who liked it, Maputo (pop. ~1.2 mi) 750, followed by São Paulo
> (pop. 11.3 mi) and Rio de Janeiro (6.2 mi) with 230 and 180,
> respectively. Maybe there is some bias on facebook we cannot have
> access to, but it will be really interesting to try to figure out that
> and the videos of these hangout can also be really interesting to try
> to understand how people in these countries use Wikipedia. A mobile
> project in these countries could also be interesting, but not sure if
> we can have it in the short term.
>
> I'll try to do these hangouts withe them, [3] anyone here is welcome to
> help.
>
> [1] https://www.facebook.com/wikipediapt
>
> [2]
> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Esplanada/geral/Estat%C3%ADsticas_sobre_a_Wikip%C3%A9dia_lus%C3%B3fona_atrav%C3%A9s_do_facebook_e_Programa_de_Educa%C3%A7%C3%A3o_na_%C3%81frica_(22fev2013)
>
> [3]
> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Esplanada/propostas/Web_confer%C3%AAncia_sobre_a_Wikip%C3%A9dia_e_o_programa_de_educa%C3%A7%C3%A3o_com_leitores_de_Angola_e_Mo%C3%A7ambique_(22fev2013)
>
> --
> Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom)
> "A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful
> than a life spent doing nothing."
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

I really don't get you, you wish to facilitate something that will affect
about 20 chapters directly in the future (those situated within the EU) and
you don't think it would overlap the Milan event? And no real need to talk
about it there?

Balazs

2013/3/7 Christophe Henner 

> I agree with my dutch friend :)
>
> People going to the Wikimedia Conference are not especially overlapping
> with this one. Plus taking one day or two off is quite easy. Add a side
> meeting you need to take a week off.
>
> Lastly, having it 2 weeks before let's us formalize the report of the
> meeting and let's have us good material to talk about it, if needs be, in
> Milan.
>
> Christophe
> Envoye depuis mon Blackberry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lodewijk 
> Sender: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 16:42:32
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Reply-To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering
>
> Hi Balázs,
>
> There seems to be only limited overlap in the interested attendees. Also,
> preconference would overlap with some other pre conferencees which at least
> for me would be bad. Also, there's only one day of pre conference
> (Thursday) which makes it too short and in the middle of the week (there's
> a clear preference for weekends).
>
> All in all, I support the decision to do it in a seperate weekend in
> Brussels.
>
> However, what is unclear to me (question to the organizers) is whether any
> travel support etc would be available, or that it should be requested
> through the local chapter. Also, can we already sign up somewhere?
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
> 2013/3/7 Balázs Viczián 
>
> > Hi Jan,
> >
> > Typically this is what pre conference events are for and quite frankly I
> > see more possibilities in it if this would be implemented into the Milan
> > event both in the schedule and as a thematic pre conference meeting (as
> the
> > educational leaders are doing it).
> >
> > cheers,
> > Balázs
> >
> > 2013/3/6 Jan Engelmann 
> >
> > > Hi Balázs,
> > >
> > > of course I am aware of the chapter conference. But first, there will
> be
> > no
> > > volunteers. Second, there won't be enough time. Third, we want to
> > integrate
> > > a short input from a Brussels-based NGO to learn something about
> "things
> > > really work". And apart from that, we searched for a very really
> central
> > > city in Europe, which is in fact - Brussels.
> > >
> > > Best, Jan
> > >
> > > 2013/3/6 Balázs Viczián 
> > >
> > > > Errr...the chapters conference in Milan will be two weeks later, why
> > > don't
> > > > you integrate this into the schedule of that instead?
> > > >
> > > > Balazs
> > > >
> > > > 2013/3/6 Jan Engelmann 
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > a clear majority voted for the 6th/7th of april as the most
> suitable
> > > > > date for the meeting. We are happy to make the arrangements! During
> > > > > the next days, we will provide you with all necessary information
> > > > > about the location in Brussels and the scheduling. We will also
> pass
> > > > > around a draft agenda on Meta to make sure that everybody can add
> > > > > certain points of interest or comments in advance.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please spread the Doodle-link just to make sure that even more
> people
> > > > > who are interested in the EU policy stuff will follow:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://doodle.com/ntiz6gup7z49e7p5
> > > > >
> > > > > Best wishes,
> > > > >
> > > > > Jan
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Jan Engelmann
> > > > > Leiter Politik & Gesellschaft
> > > > > -
> > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> > > > > Obentrautstr. 72
> > > > > 10963 Berlin
> > > > >
> > > > > Telefon 030 - 219 158 26-0
> > > > > www.wikimedia.de
> > > > >
> > > > > Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge
> > allen
> > > > > Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> > > > > http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
> > > > >
> > > > >  Helfen Sie

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

Such a meeting can be done over lunchtime any day or after the conference
(which I guess would finish somewhere around lunch on Sunday so it can be
on a weekend) or paralell to the schedule; there are plenty of options if
you're interested in a solution.

Cheers,
Balázs

2013/3/7 Lodewijk 

> Hi Balázs,
>
> There seems to be only limited overlap in the interested attendees. Also,
> preconference would overlap with some other pre conferencees which at least
> for me would be bad. Also, there's only one day of pre conference
> (Thursday) which makes it too short and in the middle of the week (there's
> a clear preference for weekends).
>
> All in all, I support the decision to do it in a seperate weekend in
> Brussels.
>
> However, what is unclear to me (question to the organizers) is whether any
> travel support etc would be available, or that it should be requested
> through the local chapter. Also, can we already sign up somewhere?
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi Jan,

Typically this is what pre conference events are for and quite frankly I
see more possibilities in it if this would be implemented into the Milan
event both in the schedule and as a thematic pre conference meeting (as the
educational leaders are doing it).

cheers,
Balázs

2013/3/6 Jan Engelmann 

> Hi Balázs,
>
> of course I am aware of the chapter conference. But first, there will be no
> volunteers. Second, there won't be enough time. Third, we want to integrate
> a short input from a Brussels-based NGO to learn something about "things
> really work". And apart from that, we searched for a very really central
> city in Europe, which is in fact - Brussels.
>
> Best, Jan
>
> 2013/3/6 Balázs Viczián 
>
> > Errr...the chapters conference in Milan will be two weeks later, why
> don't
> > you integrate this into the schedule of that instead?
> >
> > Balazs
> >
> > 2013/3/6 Jan Engelmann 
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > a clear majority voted for the 6th/7th of april as the most suitable
> > > date for the meeting. We are happy to make the arrangements! During
> > > the next days, we will provide you with all necessary information
> > > about the location in Brussels and the scheduling. We will also pass
> > > around a draft agenda on Meta to make sure that everybody can add
> > > certain points of interest or comments in advance.
> > >
> > > Please spread the Doodle-link just to make sure that even more people
> > > who are interested in the EU policy stuff will follow:
> > >
> > > http://doodle.com/ntiz6gup7z49e7p5
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > >
> > > Jan
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jan Engelmann
> > > Leiter Politik & Gesellschaft
> > > -
> > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> > > Obentrautstr. 72
> > > 10963 Berlin
> > >
> > > Telefon 030 - 219 158 26-0
> > > www.wikimedia.de
> > >
> > > Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
> > > Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> > > http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
> > >
> > >  Helfen Sie mit, dass WIKIPEDIA von der UNESCO als erstes
> > > digitales Weltkulturerbe anerkannt wird. Unterzeichnen Sie die
> > > Online-Petition! http://wikipedia.de 
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> > > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> > > unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> > > Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Balazs Viczian*
> > Executive Vice President
> > *Wikimédia Magyarország*
> >
> > Tel: +36 70 633 6372
> > Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
> > Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazin<
> > http://huwiki.blogspot.hu>
> > Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia <https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia>
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jan Engelmann
> Leiter Politik & Gesellschaft
> -
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> Obentrautstr. 72
> 10963 Berlin
>
> Telefon 030 - 219 158 26-0
> www.wikimedia.de
>
> Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
> Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
>
>  Helfen Sie mit, dass WIKIPEDIA von der UNESCO als erstes digitales
> Weltkulturerbe anerkannt wird. Unterzeichnen Sie die Online-Petition!
> http://wikipedia.de 
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
> der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

Errr...the chapters conference in Milan will be two weeks later, why don't
you integrate this into the schedule of that instead?

Balazs

2013/3/6 Jan Engelmann 

> Hi all,
>
> a clear majority voted for the 6th/7th of april as the most suitable
> date for the meeting. We are happy to make the arrangements! During
> the next days, we will provide you with all necessary information
> about the location in Brussels and the scheduling. We will also pass
> around a draft agenda on Meta to make sure that everybody can add
> certain points of interest or comments in advance.
>
> Please spread the Doodle-link just to make sure that even more people
> who are interested in the EU policy stuff will follow:
>
> http://doodle.com/ntiz6gup7z49e7p5
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jan
>
> --
> Jan Engelmann
> Leiter Politik & Gesellschaft
> -
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> Obentrautstr. 72
> 10963 Berlin
>
> Telefon 030 - 219 158 26-0
> www.wikimedia.de
>
> Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
> Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
>
>  Helfen Sie mit, dass WIKIPEDIA von der UNESCO als erstes
> digitales Weltkulturerbe anerkannt wird. Unterzeichnen Sie die
> Online-Petition! http://wikipedia.de 
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
>
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-- 
*Balazs Viczian*
Executive Vice President
*Wikimédia Magyarország*

Tel: +36 70 633 6372
Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazin
Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

I'd suggest a thematic meeting in Milan about this, what could be a kickoff
too

Balazs

2013/2/28 Jan Engelmann 

> Hi Jon,
>
> thanks a lot for your encouriging words! Would be great to have
> somebody from the UK with us right from the start, the preferred
> option for the kick-off-meeting seems to be 6th/7th of april.
>
> Hope to see you next time,
>
> Jan
>
> 2013/2/28 Jon Davies :
> > A very slow reply to this proposal.
> >
> > I agree wholeheartedly with this approach and know a little about how
> > important 'Brussels' is and how we need to have a united, well researched
> > and persuasive voice there.
> >
> > I am not sure who our key person would be to support this but will ask
> > around the community.
> >
> > Jon Davies.
> >
> >
> > On 23 February 2013 15:09, Federico Leva (Nemo) 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Christophe Henner, 20/02/2013 12:07:
> >>
> >>  Agreed, that was my hidden message. But for such endeavour to succeed
> >>> paid time and paid time in Brussels will be needed :)
> >>>
> >>
> >> We also have some additional experiences to learn from.
> >> I liked this: https://digitalegesellschaft.
> **de/2012/06/how-to-build-an-**
> >> anti-acta-campaign/<
> https://digitalegesellschaft.de/2012/06/how-to-build-an-anti-acta-campaign/
> >
> >>
> >> Nemo
> >>
> >>
> >> __**_
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org 
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> 
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*.  Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169
> > tweet @jonatreesdavies
> >
> > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
> 4LT.
> > United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> > movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> > operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> > Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
> >
> > Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
> > ___
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>
>
>
> --
> Jan Engelmann
> Leiter Politik & Gesellschaft
> -
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> Obentrautstr. 72
> 10963 Berlin
>
> Telefon 030 - 219 158 26-0
> www.wikimedia.de
>
> Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
> Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
>
>  Helfen Sie mit, dass WIKIPEDIA von der UNESCO als erstes
> digitales Weltkulturerbe anerkannt wird. Unterzeichnen Sie die
> Online-Petition! http://wikipedia.de 
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
>
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*Balazs Viczian*
Executive Vice President
*Wikimédia Magyarország*

Tel: +36 70 633 6372
Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazin
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are chapters part of the community and board seats for affiliates?

[Balázs Viczián]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, imo chapters are NOT part of the communities
(nor the global community), just a tool for them to achieve certain goals
that otherwise would be much more difficult or (almost) impossible to reach.

Balázs
2013.02.24. 10:34, "Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton" 
ezt írta:

> Two things, one is, I do not know why these discussions are not held in a
> Wiki
> ( ie meta), which is easier to document and much easier to follow.
>
> The second point:
>
> I think the chapters are a significant part of the community, however, as
> only
> one part, the chapters can not, should not speak for the whole. Thus,
> it is interesting
> to have people with most varied visions, perhaps because chapter people is
> not interesting some kind of group, but for others from the Movement, that
> affiliation is What they need. More than that, if you only choose people of
> the chapters, you will never have different visions, so you always forced,
> in
> a way, that group fits in your reality, or be like a "European" chapter.
>
>
> observations
>
>
>- If there is doubt as what's the chapter role in the Movement, how can
>we know what is a chapter? Why is there so much energy lost in
>bureaucracies, rather than focusing on activities? Chapters are
> made to perform
>activities? If yes, so why not prioritize the best local structures for
>this to occur? If not, why choose people from chapter to decide about
>other types of groups that only will do activities?
>- Why AffCom discussions are closed, since you are not the whole
>community? Why need to be so few people, and so obscure? Why not follow
> the
>other current processes and make openings for communities?
>- If a chapter is something that is done to serve the needs of online
>communities, and people of the chapters make decisions without
> consulting these
>communities, without discussing the annual planning, or strategic
>planning with these communities, how can they accomplish what online
>communities want? And thinking in that, how they will those who is the
>best group for affiliation for the communities?
>
>
>
> On 23 February 2013 15:48, Federico Leva (Nemo) 
> wrote:
>
> > I see some fundamental misunderstandings here, which make this discussion
> > so far not so productive and for which I am/was planning a reply...
> > however, in the end I doubt I'd manage to say it better than Anthere:
> > http://article.gmane.org/**gmane.org.wikimedia.**foundation/6652<
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation/6652>
> >
> > Nemo
> >
> >
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>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are chapters part of the community and board seats for affiliates?

[Balázs Viczián]

I believe chapters are tools for the local communities to achieve certain
goals that otherwise would be very difficult or (almost) impossible, and a
great aid in local community building.

Balazs
2013.02.22. 19:41, "phoebe ayers"  ezt írta:

> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 6:41 AM, Christophe Henner <
> christophe.hen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hmmm I might be mistaken but WMF board members, selected or not by
> > chapters, haven't access to chapter-l. But I might be mistaken on that.
> >
> > --
> > Christophe
> >
>
>
> Correct; I didn't have access to chapters-l before, during or after being
> selected (or after leaving the board). I have no idea what people said
> about me, which is totally fine. What *wasn't* fine, in my opinion, is that
> lots of other non-chapter people were surprised when the chapter-selected
> seat results were announced in 2010, because it wasn't very clear that a
> process was even going on. As Bence said, this improved a lot in 2012, so
> that's great.
>
> -- Phoebe, who is also a little biased about being "part of the community"
> :P
>
>
> --
> * I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers 
> gmail.com *
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

could be, but SF is pretty far away from Brussels (culture, legislation,
the way of handling things, priorities, etc. many many differences on many
levels)

Balazs

2013/2/20 Romaine Wiki 

> Wikipedia and Wikimedia are a movement, a movement of open/free
> information and we should have spokespeople who can explain why open/free
> information is our desire and the desire of many people in the world. We as
> Wikimedia can't exist without open/free information and we should and must
> explain that to politicians and other organizations. Our goals are limited
> by the legal bounders, and as Wikimedia is an important movement in our
> society we should make our voice been heard to make us able to reach our
> goals in a larger way.
>
> This is something that should be done by the European chapters and other
> European Wikimedians. This is of European importance and can't be done only
> by Belgians, and that wouldn't be appropriate. (As one of the people
> working on founding Wikimedia Belgium I can say everyone is welcome, but
> certainly we can't do this alone.) Wikimedia stands for collaboration, that
> is what we need here, and it is good to see this is recognized by several
> chapters and Wikimedians.
>
> Be welcome!
>
> Romaine
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

I've replied on two things: regarding "info collecting", that you were
discussing, I believe WMBE can handle it (collecting names and numbers), no
need for a "chapter to the EU" there imo. Regarding actual lobbying,
representation and stuff - an international cooperation, like WCA (but not
in its current state) should do the job.

Balazs


2013/2/20 Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov 

> Hi again,
>
> if there ever will be a WCA or something like that, then this will be a
> > task for them imo. For the time being, "mapping" could be done by the
> > future Belgian chapter or by some interested local volunteers.
> >
>
> I strongly disagree. As a local volunteer doing monitoring and as someone
> who is currently very actively involved in the founding of Wikimedia
> Belgium.
>
> There are two reasons for that:
>
> 1. We're not talking about Belgian legislation or the Belgian
> government/parliament here. We're talking about the EU institutions. And if
> you want them to listen to you, you need to represent an European
> community. Otherwise the French will talk to the French government, the
> Germans to the German and the Bulgarians to the Bulgarian. This is by far
> not the best way to proceed and is why this initiative is very necessary.
>
> 2. Even if we'd decide that WMBE should lead this initiative (and that is
> in fact a discussed option), in Belgium we're at best at least a year away
> from having that kind of infrastructure. We're still to subit our statutes
> to the AffCom. At the same time I just had it confirmed from a Commissoin
> employee tonight that they plan to table the new copyright legislation
> proposal at the beginning of next year the latest.
>
> As a local volunteer who is doing monitoring my opinion is that there is
> dire need an international group of wikimedians to rely on support. I
> oftentimes feel overwhealmed.
>
> Cheers,
> Dimi
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

if there ever will be a WCA or something like that, then this will be a
task for them imo. For the time being, "mapping" could be done by the
future Belgian chapter or by some interested local volunteers.

Balazs

2013/2/20 Jan Engelmann 

> Hi Balázs,
>
> I believe this will be the task of the future Belgian chapter what is - if
> > I'm correct - just forming. No need to have two chapters there.
> >
>
> We're not talking about an "overlapping" or even "overstretch" of chapters.
> The territorial perspective is not very productive if you search for new
> synergy effects inside a global movement. What we have in mind, is rather
> something preliminary to the stage of institutionalization. And we'd like
> to discuss this basic idea exactly with those people already engaged in the
> Brussels business. I think this is a very pragmatic and (hopefully)
> sustainable approach.
>
> Best, Jan
>
>
> >
> > Balazs
> >
> > 2013/2/20 Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov  >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I guess the non-partisan part is not even a quesiton, but rather a
> > > precondition. The question is how to balance it on a case-to-case
> basis.
> > > For now I have just included the wording "*commitment to* *political
> > > neutrality except regarding the most serious things that directly
> impact
> > > our work." *in the Meta project pages. I believe that phrasing is a
> good
> > > starting point for our discussions.
> > >
> > > On the monitoring side the justification is easier. Collecting,
> > publishing
> > > and summarising legislative proposals/ammendments/reports/positions is
> > > nothing that is not in line with gathering "the sum of all human
> > > knowledge".
> > >
> > > Dimi
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Balazs Viczian*
> > Executive Vice President
> > *Wikimédia Magyarország*
> >
> > Tel: +36 70 633 6372
> > Mail: balazs.vicz...@wikimedia.hu
> > Web: www.wikimedia.hu  Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazin<
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>
>
> --
> Jan Engelmann
> Leiter Politik & Gesellschaft
> -
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Big Fat Brussels Gathering

[Balázs Viczián]

I believe this will be the task of the future Belgian chapter what is - if
I'm correct - just forming. No need to have two chapters there.

Balazs

2013/2/20 Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov 

> Hi all,
>
> I guess the non-partisan part is not even a quesiton, but rather a
> precondition. The question is how to balance it on a case-to-case basis.
> For now I have just included the wording "*commitment to* *political
> neutrality except regarding the most serious things that directly impact
> our work." *in the Meta project pages. I believe that phrasing is a good
> starting point for our discussions.
>
> On the monitoring side the justification is easier. Collecting, publishing
> and summarising legislative proposals/ammendments/reports/positions is
> nothing that is not in line with gathering "the sum of all human
> knowledge".
>
> Dimi
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Looking back at the London Conference

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi,

sorry, no offense meant, but all of you are keep saying the same things
again and again. At least a dozen times I've read lines, like "don't focus
on this, focus on that" or let me say WCA recruiting athough you dropped
that idea about two weeks ago (really?)

I'd like to help you with focusing: It wouls be lovely to see those
"things" mentioned above explained as detailed as possible what is much
more than that list of ideas ("tasks") you may think of right now linking
here.

sorry, just got a little bit annoyed reading the very same discussion for
at least the fifth or sixths time and it is still not differing from the
previous ones.

uff

Vince
2013.02.19. 23:14, "Ziko van Dijk"  ezt írta:

> Hello,
> Just to keep in mind: it has been no secret, from the beginning, that the
> WCA planned to hire somebody. The WMF board is supported by employees too,
> and I guess that the WMF has a number of regulations. Enough room for views
> to evolve.
> But it sounds good to focus on getting things started instead of focusing
> on process, structure etc. - I will remember that when the WMF asks again
> report after report from the chapters' volunteers...
> Ziko
>
>
>
>
> 2013/2/19 Jan-Bart de Vreede :
> > Hey
> >
> > So just to add my perspective on the mail below (as one of the two board
> members that were present).
> >
> > As mentioned before the board has several big issues with the WCA where
> it was going (as outlined on the meta discussion page and our statement:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Chapters_Association#WMF_Board_letter_regarding_the_Chapters_Association
> )
> >
> > We felt that our statement was needed at the time, and some good debate
> has taken place. If we were inconsistent in our behaviour (in the eyes of
> Ziko) this was simply because things increasingly seemed to be going the
> wrong way and views evolve over time.
> >
> > The discussion we had was a very useful one, and you can read a pretty
> accurate transcript at: http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/WCA/ (and I see that
> minutes are being worked on as I type this, so a formal report is likely to
> be announced here soon I guess)
> >
> > The main focus that I tried to bring across is that the people working on
> the Chapter Association stop focusing on process, structure, incorporation,
> hiring and strategy but rather focus on getting things started and trying
> to develop things that work and can grow. Rather than focus on membership
> and voting, focus on getting an exchange of knowledge, experience and
> skills between all the chapters (members or not).
> >
> > And though it might not come across right now without seeing the results,
>  I feel that the weekend was very useful. There was a lot of energy in the
> room and a willingness to re-assess where the CA is, and where it needs to
> go (thank you for that everyone, and thank you to Fae for helping create
> this open environment). Public discussion on meta, along with open exchange
> and notes are a good start, and I am sure that a lot of things will be
> happening the next months. Hopefully this will grow into the potential that
> chapter cooperation has always had.
> >
> > Jan-Bart de Vreede
> > Wikimedia Board of Trustees
> >
> >
> > On Feb 19, 2013, at 5:10 PM, Ziko van Dijk 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Council Members and everyone interested in the WCA,
> >>
> >> On 16/17th February 2013 a number of Council Members visited the
> >> London Conference I had proposed in mid January to talk about the way
> >> of the WCA and to prepare the Wikimedia Conference in Milan. We are
> >> happy that the London Conference did happen, and, in spite of the
> >> debatable WMF board statement of 5th February, that two WMF board
> >> members still agreed to join us.
> >>
> >> Because in 2012/2013 the signals from the WMF were not very consistent
> >> I tried to receive more clarity about the relationship between
> >> Foundation and Association. This was only partially successful, but I
> >> understand that the two present WMF board members were as open as it
> >> was possible within the constraints of the WMF board unity. We very
> >> much appreciated the commitment of Alice and Jan-Bart and were happy
> >> not to hear certain allegations from the board statement again.
> >>
> >> The London Conference discussed many WCA subjects collected during the
> >> last months. One of them was communication, and I am content that I
> >> could convince the participants of a major change. For someone who is
> >> interested in the WCA it has been very difficult to follow the
> >> proceedings, plans and results. When e.g. a Council Member wanted to
> >> talk to others or discuss something, he or she used one of the several
> >> mailing lists the movement has, or Meta Wiki, or private email
> >> addresses. I believe that this has been a fundamental problem with the
> >> regard to the perception of the WCA, and that the participation even
> >> from Council Members suffered also because of this k

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New members for the Affiliations Committee

[Balázs Viczián]

Congrats to all!

Just one small thing: you put 2012 in the header of the meta page, but it's
2013 for some time now :)

Balazs


2013/2/13 Lodewijk 

> Dear all,
>
> As you may have noticed, in December there was a call for new members for
> the affiliations committee. The affiliations committee is entrusted to
> advise the Board of Trustees on matters of recognition of new movement
> affiliates, such as Chapters, Thematic Organizations and User Groups.
>
> I am happy to be able to say that this call resulted in 18 applications!
> After a thorough discussion, the Committee members that were not part of
> this selection procedure have passed a resolution, appointing 7 of these
> applicants as member of the committee.[1]
>
> Therefore, I'm proud to announce that the following people have been
> appointed as member of the Affiliations Committee until 31 December 2014:
>
>- Jeromy-Yu Chan (re-appointment)
>- Carlos Colina
>- Bence Damokos (re-appointment)
>- Josh Lim
>- Salvador Alcántar Morán
>- Tanvir Rahman
>- Greg Varnum
>
>
> Congratulations to the new appointees! You can find a full overview of the
> members on [2].
>
> I would like to take this opportunity to thank the outgoing members who
> spent valuable time in the past years on the affiliations committee:
> Sebastian Moleski, Ray Saintonge and Damian Finol. Sebastian and Ray have
> served the committee since 2010, and Damian was the longest serving member,
> being appointed in 2007! Thanks a lot for your time and effort in the past
> years.
>
> I look forward to an exciting time, with many applicants in the pipeline to
> be (hopefully) approved!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Lodewijk Gelauff
> selection coordinator
> member of the Affiliations Committee
>
> [1]:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Membership_%E2%80%93_February_2012
> [2]: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee
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