Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
Hi, * One meaning of burnt out: exhausted as a result of longtime stress Refer: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/burnt-out Not only the people who have worked for former Wikimedia India office, but many from the chapter, people who have worked for the last Wiki Conference India are tired. Some have unsubscribed from this mailing list to stay away from politics. *We need to ask the right questions, provide constructive feedback and dare to oppose when something impacts the community negatively. But, after all these if we are not able to work together, our approach is certainly wrong and negative. * Two examples: - Tamil Wikipedia was highly critical of the Google translation project but it was also the only community that worked together with them to make the pilot better. The best practices learned were later found useful for the Arabic Wikipedia community. - Tamil Wikipedia and Malayalam Wikipedia chose to opt out of the web fonts implementation. Some of us even gave the harshest criticism. But, we were also the only guys who were helping to identify bugs and squash them with the help of WMF teach team. * I am as much a part of the community as some others are. http://toolserver.org/~tparis/pcount/index.php?name=Ravidreamslang=tawiki=wikipedia The Indian community need not have a unanimous opinion on all issues. I have the right to express my opinion. I stand by what I said and don't owe an apology to anyone :) Let some of us stop pretending to be the saviors of doing everything right about Wikipedia in India. All this talk of money getting diverted to CIS is *^%$. There is lot of ground work that needs to be done which money alone can't do. Are we doing that yet? There are language communities working on their own Wikipedias. There is Wikimedia India chapter which is trying to do organizational work for the whole of India. If you are not part of either, I wonder who you are? If you are concerned about a third entity like CIS in India, may I ask what is this fourth unnamed and informal entity which doesn't come under any of these avenues? Stop trying to hijack the community. A good part of the community is silently doing productive work outside this mailing list. For all those asking for proof, references and citations: *May I ask that you provide a disclaimer that you never applied for any of the posts in former Wikimedia India office and current A2K program?* Being an editor in Wikipedia and knowing the community is a plus for anyone working in these offices. But, it is common sense that not all the posts in these office can be run by Wikipedians alone. Even if most of the work can be done by Wikipedians in the chapter, it still needs professionals with various other skills and experience to do holistic work. This is how any professional organization can be run. It is the job of the interview board to find suitable candidates in this context. The very fact that the hiring process was delayed is an indication that they took all efforts to find the right people within reach. I am happy with the credentials of the people in the new team. It is only fair that we welcome them, try ways to work together with them, evaluate the progress later, find lessons and keep improvising. * If you are not happy with the way WMF spends money, stop donating. I stopped two years before. You can even start a Don't donate campaign so that WMF will take the effort to analyze its operation. Join the grant reviewing committee and help WMF spend it's money better. If WMF is bypassing the grants committee, question it through proper channels. Harassing an organization which got a grant and is yet to start work is not the right way. Ravi ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
I am getting a bit sick of the hypocrisy here. It's the people that are employed, people in the position of power complaining to people who have nothing to gain. It's like any other politician, government babu, complaining about the aam aadmi being angry after an year of scams and questionable conduct. Do the people complaining have anything ventured? Do they stand to lose or gain anything? Yet, they should be the one to shut up and let the establishment get on with whatever it is, it has been doing for the years before. Bishakha it's always enjoyable to have you appear on this list to protect the same interests again. I would barely see your comments on these lists if not for that. it was the office bearers last years when you argued to hold them to a lower standard on Wikipedia, the wikipedia community disagreed. My own feelings wouldn't be as strong here if I didn't know the actual spending, or the level of some people's involvement in the failed India initiatives or CIS and others having had other associations. But it's not like you are an elected representative of this community who should care about these things. Either way, I don't think you know what a level playing field is in the first place. It is the right to treat others as equals, and question as equals. They have the same right to answer back or not. What you are asking for here is actually the opposite - an uneven playing field. We should all shut up, stop asking questions, welcome the newcomers with open arms, and forget that there was any conflict. So, they can indeed be above criticism. -Theo PS Bishakha feel free to avoid reading my emails from now on, or disengage all together. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Bishakha Datta bishakhada...@gmail.comwrote: ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
Hi Ravi, I was silently watching this debate and didn't want to join it for many reasons, but some of your assumptions force me to jump in, On 9 Feb 2013 04:48, Ravishankar ravidre...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, My best wishes for the new A2K team. A sincere request to all Indian Wikimedians: CIS has been given a grant by WMF. Let CIS do their job in peace and let them be answerable to the grant review committee. Just because they are located in India and working on Indian Wikimedia projects, I don't think they need to answer every question from the community. Especially, hiring related questions and when they are yet to start work. Can you please provide base for your this declaration? When it was Boforse scan or Lalu Prasad Yadav's Chara Ghotala and Gobar Scam did we say, come on you Indians, keep your mouth shut, because the money involved is foreign currency? I think we didn't. Then why now? The former Indian Wikimedia office was burnt out precisely because of this negative approach from the community. Can you please shed some more light on this alligation? This is utter alligation on the wjoke Indian wiki community. I (only on my behalf) will need a clarification based on facts and evidences. Please remember that wikipedia also doesn't approve text/edits without refrrences. I hope you would be active on one of the wikis, so need not to explain what reference is. If the community needs to strengthen the movement, either work on your own language Wikimedia projects or join the India Wikimedia chapter and take it forward. Why? Why only 2 options? How many of the IP or A2K team members are active on their respective language wilipedia? Upto what extent? Are there others on those language wikipedia with more edits and more regular presence? These are the questions one should ask his/her self before making such statements. I don't need answers on these. Ravi Thank you for nice baseless blame on me (as i m part of the community) Dhaval ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
A big +100 to Ravishankar's message. Welcome aboard, Vishnu and Dr Niranjana. And to all on this list: can we please give the new A2K team the space, the good faith, and the openness so they can start to do what they need to do without feeling like people are nipping at their heels? Can we please put the politics, suspicions, and judgements aside and give them a break? This atmosphere seems the very opposite of a welcome. Can we please give them a level playing field? Best Bishakha On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Ravishankar ravidre...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, My best wishes for the new A2K team. A sincere request to all Indian Wikimedians: CIS has been given a grant by WMF. Let CIS do their job in peace and let them be answerable to the grant review committee. Just because they are located in India and working on Indian Wikimedia projects, I don't think they need to answer every question from the community. Especially, hiring related questions and when they are yet to start work. The former Indian Wikimedia office was burnt out precisely because of this negative approach from the community. If the community needs to strengthen the movement, either work on your own language Wikimedia projects or join the India Wikimedia chapter and take it forward. Ravi ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
Congratulations Vishnu and Tejaswini on your new roles. All the best for the A2K team in growing Wikimedia in India. Arjuna 2013/2/8 Vishnu t visdav...@gmail.com Dear Pradeep, If I may come-in on this. *From: * Pradeep Mohandas prad2...@yahoo.com; * To: * noopur noo...@cis-india.org; * Subject: * Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13 * Sent: * Thu, Feb 7, 2013 8:05:53 AM Hi, Thank you for the update, Noopur. Could you or someone elaborate on the hiring of Tejaswini Niranjana, please? I assume you are asking about the rational behind hiring Dr. Tejaswini Niranjana as a Consultant Adviser to the A2K team. As many of you on the list may not know, Tejaswini was one of the potential applicants for the position the Programme Director, Access to Knowledge. She had even made it to the short-list of candidates who were interviewed. In fact her interview happened the same day as mine at CIS. However, the interview panel felt that she is too senior and over qualified for the position, but wanted to keep her associated with the Wiki-movement in India. Then the interview panel suggested that we look at taking her as an Consultant Adviser. CIS (i.e. Sunil) went back to the WMF about this recommendation by the interview panel and the WMF accepted it, as uniformly it was felt that she would add tremendous value to the Wiki-movement in India. I personally think that Tejaswini brings with her wealth of experience and professional expertise of working in the sector of Indian Languages in Higher Education. In addition to this she has multiple research institutional contacts and networks, which will potentially add value to the Indian Language Wikipedias and contribute to the expansion of editors and content. I was told that she has already played an instrumental role in facilitating two outreach workshops to researchers and college students in Mumbai and Ahmadnagar, to which some of our Wikipedians friends have gone. I think we should all concur with the strategic decision taken by the interview panel, which I am quite sure will benefit us and the movement. You can find her brief profile herehttp://cis-india.org/about/people/distinguished-fellows . Please join me in welcoming Dr. Tejaswini Niranjana to the Wiki-movement in India. I have taken the liberty to coy her on this mail. Best regards, Vishnu ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
I fully agree with Vicram and others who feel its only fair that we give the new organisation a chance to do good and succeed. Dhaval Aravind, you are both right wrong. You are right that large parts of the India Program's strategic decisions went wrong and should bear the major blame for the organisation's failure, but it is equally true in the debate which followed, no matter how justifiable, a lot of negative energy entered the atmosphere, making things difficult and disheartening for anyone who wanted to work sincerely. I'm sure I must contributed some of that negative energy myself too. So without trying to blame anyone, what Ravi said was essentially true also. But let us not allow the sad failure of India Program to deny us the new hope! Let us hope this program with new people heading it, lead to new opportunities, new challenges and new successes! Lastly, I would request the new A2K Program people to ignore the tone of some of the messages and instead concentrate on the kernel of truth that some of these messages concern - - that the community is suspicious of programs where not enough Wikimedians/people who are editors have been employed or made part of the process. The Wikimedian community is uber sensitive to non-Wikimedians coming in with their initiatives and good intentions, no matter how genuine. Sometimes, we Wikimedians tend to throw the baby out with the bath-water. Cant help it, once burnt, twice shy. - that while a part of the Wikimedian community is right now in support of A2K just based on pure faith, the A2K can build up that support base of the remaining community enormously by engaging the community and its concerns and by a solid track record of work done and promises fulfilled. - that many Wikimedians are protective of the Chapter and feel that it has been neglected or treated badly by the WMF. We need the A2K to build a healthy, complementary relationship with the Chapter - not a competitive one. We need the A2K to have a close fit with the Chapter, taking up initiatives where Chapter and its volunteers find it difficult to succeed, and avoiding the space meant for normal wikimedians. - Though the grant to A2K is from the WMF, the Wikimedian Community feels it is the judge and jury as to deciding whether the money has been spent well or frivolously. Lots of honest communication is required all the time. Remember that WMF grants are not the Foundation's money, but donations by tens of thousands of the supporters of the movement all over the world. On my part, I pledge my cooperation to A2K, as I have done to the Chapter, and to India Program in the past. Lastly, I request my fellow Wikimedians that any further queries to A2K may be started on a new thread and in neutrally phrased language so that the A2K gets a fair chance. Happy editting all! AshLin ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
Hi Vickram, there seems to be a false assumption on your part that is underpinning most of your logic. Allow me to clarify. The funding is not new, it is not entering India now, in fact if I had to make an educated guess I would say the spending is an eighth or a sixth of what it was the last year and the year before. Money hasn't been diverted now, it was for the last 2-3 years, it has just been reduced to a fraction of what it was. Second, CIS has other benefactors and other priorities. There seems to be some link that was formed a while ago between them and the foundation. CIS might have the financial approvals in place to process the grant, but they are not being used to transfer to the organic entity in India but create an alternative to them. There is also no problem in getting those financial approvals for the chapter itself, it was a decision made a while ago to support CIS instead - I don't believe the chapter was a party to it. Working together would be CIS supporting the chapter, not continuing to employ and hire people on the other side of the country, for a community they know little about. Ashwin, you're a mensch. I appreciate your attempts at levity here, but these questions haven't been asked for a while. Hisham left almost 7-8 months ago, the hiring has been delayed for a few months, then the entire game of charades with the new hire. I'm lead to deduce that CIS wasn't itself thrilled with the prospect of getting involved to this level, I believe they used an intern for the majority of correspondence to this list. All the while a team remained employed with no one to oversee them, no direction. I don't recall if any of them worked with any community members in the last year on anything substantial. If I'm wrong then please tell me you've been working with them in Pune or Mumbai, I heard things to the contrary and occasionally saw low impact, low visibility undertakings. However, I see someone being accused of trolling for asking these questions, someone else of getting defensive. There isn't any clarification, no answer - just that these questions shouldn't be asked. These aren't necessarily questions directed at Dr. Niranjana or Vishnu, or even CIS alone, they might be more suited to inquiring how the whole situation came to be. On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Bishakha Datta bishakhada...@gmail.comwrote: And to all on this list: can we please give the new A2K team the space, the good faith, and the openness so they can start to do what they need to do without feeling like people are nipping at their heels? The team has been there for over an year now, I think hisham left 7-8 months. If anything I really don't know what half of them have been doing, or who is on the team these days. It sounded like any other gov. babu job. Can we please put the politics, suspicions, and judgements aside and give them a break? This atmosphere seems the very opposite of a welcome. I seem to recall you being adapt at politics yourself, ma'am. I've heard about a lot of things being said to the board. Perhaps, you can talk more about me or the Indian community to the board and staff on another occasion, and then ask to put aside politics on an open mailing list. Can we please give them a level playing field? Does that mean turning a blind eye to nepotism, favoritism and undisclosed conflicts of interest? They are getting more and more common I see. But sure, a level playing field - for people in places of power and authority. -Theo ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Ashwin Baindur ashwin.bain...@gmail.comwrote: I fully agree with Vicram and others who feel its only fair that we give the new organisation a chance to do good and succeed. Dhaval Aravind, you are both right wrong. You are right that large parts of the India Program's strategic decisions went wrong and should bear the major blame for the organisation's failure, but it is equally true in the debate which followed, no matter how justifiable, a lot of negative energy entered the atmosphere, making things difficult and disheartening for anyone who wanted to work sincerely. I'm sure I must contributed some of that negative energy myself too. So without trying to blame anyone, what Ravi said was essentially true also. Dear Ashwin, There are 2 separate issues here . Please address them seperately 1. Blaming community for the organizational management failures of WMF India program (read Ravi once gain : Indian Wikimedia office was burnt out precisely because of this negative approach from the community. , and a WMF Board member giving +100 to that) . When you are working on an accountable position in front of a community there will be questions and critiques always. This is a usual phenomenon . Blaming the community for the organizational failures of WMF India team is not the solution for that . Ravisankar and Bishakha have a moral responsibility to explain this critique, since this is different from whatever WMF told us so far . I hope they will respond and close this thread 2. CIS A2K team. I have hope in this program and I wish them all success. Also seconds all points raised by Ashwin and extending my support to the team. ~ Regards Anivar ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 8:33 PM, Anivar Aravind anivar.arav...@gmail.comwrote: There are 2 separate issues here . Please address them seperately 1. Blaming community for the organizational management failures of WMF India program (read Ravi once gain : Indian Wikimedia office was burnt out precisely because of this negative approach from the community. , and a WMF Board member giving +100 to that) . When you are working on an accountable position in front of a community there will be questions and critiques always. This is a usual phenomenon . Blaming the community for the organizational failures of WMF India team is not the solution for that . Ravisankar and Bishakha have a moral responsibility to explain this critique, since this is different from whatever WMF told us so far . I hope they will respond and close this thread Dear Anivar, I took your comment seriously and went back and re-read Ravi's comment - and I continue to agree with what he says. Nowhere does he (or I) hold the community responsible for the failures of the India program. I cannot understand how this conclusion can be arrived at or derived from those comments. Over the last two years, community members, including those from the wider wikipedia communities, have on many instances rightly pointed out things that were going wrong with the program. That's not the issue here. Constructive feedback is always needed and always welcomed. But we also know - and need to acknowledge - that the community has not always been constructive in its feedback. It is well known that not just members of the India program team, but volunteers from India have themselves felt burnt out and unfairly targeted by the atmosphere of suspicion and the level of politics. With new leadership in place at the A2K program team following a rigorous selection process, there is a chance to make somewhat of a fresh start. The newly-led team has yet to start work and cannot be held responsible for the lapses of the past. What it needs is a level playing field to start working. Without this, it cannot possibly succeed, no matter how solid its intentions are, no matter how capable it may be, no matter how much effort it puts into working in an inclusive, transparent and peer-like manner with the larger community. Given this, I would ask that you and everyone on their list do their bit to build a level playing field, and ensure that the newly-led team is given a fair chance to prove its mettle or earn its stripes, in an atmosphere that is free of suspicion and pre-judgement. Dwelling on the past and nitpicking on inessentials is not going to get us there - but making concrete suggestions for the future might. Once again, I would urge anyone who has specific suggestions for the new A2K team to publicly share them so that these can be seriously considered. This would help create the level playing field that is so badly needed now. Best Bishakha ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
Hi Bishakha, I am amazed to see how beautifully something is ignored to be answered. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 3:13 AM, Bishakha Datta bishakhada...@gmail.comwrote: On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 8:33 PM, Anivar Aravind anivar.arav...@gmail.comwrote: There are 2 separate issues here . Please address them seperately 1. Blaming community for the organizational management failures of WMF India program (read Ravi once gain : Indian Wikimedia office was burnt out precisely because of this negative approach from the community. , and a WMF Board member giving +100 to that) . When you are working on an accountable position in front of a community there will be questions and critiques always. This is a usual phenomenon . Blaming the community for the organizational failures of WMF India team is not the solution for that . Ravisankar and Bishakha have a moral responsibility to explain this critique, since this is different from whatever WMF told us so far . I hope they will respond and close this thread Dear Anivar, I took your comment seriously and went back and re-read Ravi's comment - and I continue to agree with what he says. Nowhere does he (or I) hold the community responsible for the failures of the India program. I cannot understand how this conclusion can be arrived at or derived from those comments. do you mean to say there is no blame on community here in this statement? Indian Wikimedia office was burnt out precisely *because of this negative approach from the community*. I have underlined and marked in bold the portion that I and (think Arvind) found objectionable and questioned. Please be advised and read my reply more carefully once again, I never asked any question to A2K team nor I raised any concerns, What I tried was just to ask something to Ravi to clarify, which I think for some incomprehensible or mystic reasons he is trying to avoid and answering himself. Anyways, as a member of Board of Trustees if you donot see anything objectionable in saying that Indian Wikimedia office was burnt out precisely *because of this negative approach from the community*, I as a tiny member of Indic wikipedia community, have no right to feel hurt. You being trustee our representative and leader, and in our culture it is said that *Yatha Raja tatha Praja*, so as you're not offended (I assume you are community member as well as trustee) we must not be offended and live with this stigma. Over the last two years, community members, including those from the wider wikipedia communities, have on many instances rightly pointed out things that were going wrong with the program. That's not the issue here. Constructive feedback is always needed and always welcomed. But we also know - and need to acknowledge - that the community has not always been constructive in its feedback. It is well known that not just members of the India program team, but volunteers from India have themselves felt burnt out and unfairly targeted by the atmosphere of suspicion and the level of politics. With new leadership in place at the A2K program team following a rigorous selection process, there is a chance to make somewhat of a fresh start. The newly-led team has yet to start work and cannot be held responsible for the lapses of the past. What it needs is a level playing field to start working. Without this, it cannot possibly succeed, no matter how solid its intentions are, no matter how capable it may be, no matter how much effort it puts into working in an inclusive, transparent and peer-like manner with the larger community. Given this, I would ask that you and everyone on their list do their bit to build a level playing field, and ensure that the newly-led team is given a fair chance to prove its mettle or earn its stripes, in an atmosphere that is free of suspicion and pre-judgement. Dwelling on the past and nitpicking on inessentials is not going to get us there - but making concrete suggestions for the future might. Once again, I would urge anyone who has specific suggestions for the new A2K team to publicly share them so that these can be seriously considered. This would help create the level playing field that is so badly needed now. Best Bishakha A surrendered member of community, Dhaval ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
Nobody's being blamed! Negative approaches do cause burn outs. This is a reality. We know it. To say something that is a reality does not mean that anyone is being blamed. I genuinely can't understand why this is seen as blame or a stigma on the community. Also, I am not a politician and do not believe that anyone must follow what I say or surrender to it. So please feel totally free to disagree with me - I mean it. I will re-emphasize that introspection is needed if we are to get anywhere - not just on the part of the program team, but also on the part of the community. We cannot continue to take the stand that everything that the community does is fine; we need to introspect on our strengths and weaknesses with honesty. I continue to read Ravi's statement as part of this much-needed introspection. Best Bishakha On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Dhaval S. Vyas dsv...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Bishakha, I am amazed to see how beautifully something is ignored to be answered. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 3:13 AM, Bishakha Datta bishakhada...@gmail.comwrote: On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 8:33 PM, Anivar Aravind anivar.arav...@gmail.comwrote: There are 2 separate issues here . Please address them seperately 1. Blaming community for the organizational management failures of WMF India program (read Ravi once gain : Indian Wikimedia office was burnt out precisely because of this negative approach from the community. , and a WMF Board member giving +100 to that) . When you are working on an accountable position in front of a community there will be questions and critiques always. This is a usual phenomenon . Blaming the community for the organizational failures of WMF India team is not the solution for that . Ravisankar and Bishakha have a moral responsibility to explain this critique, since this is different from whatever WMF told us so far . I hope they will respond and close this thread Dear Anivar, I took your comment seriously and went back and re-read Ravi's comment - and I continue to agree with what he says. Nowhere does he (or I) hold the community responsible for the failures of the India program. I cannot understand how this conclusion can be arrived at or derived from those comments. do you mean to say there is no blame on community here in this statement? Indian Wikimedia office was burnt out precisely *because of this negative approach from the community*. I have underlined and marked in bold the portion that I and (think Arvind) found objectionable and questioned. Please be advised and read my reply more carefully once again, I never asked any question to A2K team nor I raised any concerns, What I tried was just to ask something to Ravi to clarify, which I think for some incomprehensible or mystic reasons he is trying to avoid and answering himself. Anyways, as a member of Board of Trustees if you donot see anything objectionable in saying that Indian Wikimedia office was burnt out precisely *because of this negative approach from the community*, I as a tiny member of Indic wikipedia community, have no right to feel hurt. You being trustee our representative and leader, and in our culture it is said that *Yatha Raja tatha Praja*, so as you're not offended (I assume you are community member as well as trustee) we must not be offended and live with this stigma. Over the last two years, community members, including those from the wider wikipedia communities, have on many instances rightly pointed out things that were going wrong with the program. That's not the issue here. Constructive feedback is always needed and always welcomed. But we also know - and need to acknowledge - that the community has not always been constructive in its feedback. It is well known that not just members of the India program team, but volunteers from India have themselves felt burnt out and unfairly targeted by the atmosphere of suspicion and the level of politics. With new leadership in place at the A2K program team following a rigorous selection process, there is a chance to make somewhat of a fresh start. The newly-led team has yet to start work and cannot be held responsible for the lapses of the past. What it needs is a level playing field to start working. Without this, it cannot possibly succeed, no matter how solid its intentions are, no matter how capable it may be, no matter how much effort it puts into working in an inclusive, transparent and peer-like manner with the larger community. Given this, I would ask that you and everyone on their list do their bit to build a level playing field, and ensure that the newly-led team is given a fair chance to prove its mettle or earn its stripes, in an atmosphere that is free of suspicion and pre-judgement. Dwelling on the past and nitpicking on inessentials is not going to get us there - but making concrete suggestions for the future might. Once again, I would urge anyone who has specific
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
Dear Pradeep, If I may come-in on this. *From: * Pradeep Mohandas prad2...@yahoo.com; * To: * noopur noo...@cis-india.org; * Subject: * Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13 * Sent: * Thu, Feb 7, 2013 8:05:53 AM Hi, Thank you for the update, Noopur. Could you or someone elaborate on the hiring of Tejaswini Niranjana, please? I assume you are asking about the rational behind hiring Dr. Tejaswini Niranjana as a Consultant Adviser to the A2K team. As many of you on the list may not know, Tejaswini was one of the potential applicants for the position the Programme Director, Access to Knowledge. She had even made it to the short-list of candidates who were interviewed. In fact her interview happened the same day as mine at CIS. However, the interview panel felt that she is too senior and over qualified for the position, but wanted to keep her associated with the Wiki-movement in India. Then the interview panel suggested that we look at taking her as an Consultant Adviser. CIS (i.e. Sunil) went back to the WMF about this recommendation by the interview panel and the WMF accepted it, as uniformly it was felt that she would add tremendous value to the Wiki-movement in India. I personally think that Tejaswini brings with her wealth of experience and professional expertise of working in the sector of Indian Languages in Higher Education. In addition to this she has multiple research institutional contacts and networks, which will potentially add value to the Indian Language Wikipedias and contribute to the expansion of editors and content. I was told that she has already played an instrumental role in facilitating two outreach workshops to researchers and college students in Mumbai and Ahmadnagar, to which some of our Wikipedians friends have gone. I think we should all concur with the strategic decision taken by the interview panel, which I am quite sure will benefit us and the movement. You can find her brief profile herehttp://cis-india.org/about/people/distinguished-fellows . Please join me in welcoming Dr. Tejaswini Niranjana to the Wiki-movement in India. I have taken the liberty to coy her on this mail. Best regards, Vishnu ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
On 8 February 2013 17:44, Vishnu t visdav...@gmail.com wrote: Please join me in welcoming Dr. Tejaswini Niranjana to the Wiki-movement in India. I have taken the liberty to coy her on this mail. Read Dr. Niranjana's profile. Wow! Welcome to the movement! ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
Vishnu, thanks for responding. Would you or someone from CIS help me understand the rationale for selecting two individuals affiliated with CSCS which is also affiliated with CIS? I don't mean to question the credentials of either you or Ms Tejaswini, however, was there a need felt for the inclusion of an additional consultant whilst there are already four other members in the CIS Delhi Office (previously WMF India Programs)? Do you feel that the current workload on the rest of the team justifies the hiring of an additional consultant? Furthermore, based on my discussions with other members oft he community there appears to be some confusion on the amount of WMF grant quoted in your email above, that is, INR 2.6 crores [~USD 488,000]. If I recall correctly, the grant amount sanctioned by the WMF for CIS's A2k programme stands at INR 1.1 crores [~USD 206,000] with the possibility of further support from the FDC through a separate grant request. As far as my understanding goes, this support is provisional and dependent on the FDC's willingness to extend the grant amount on the basis of CIS's track record with spending and execution of programmes since the A2k programme was announced in the middle of 2012. From Barry's mail: [Link http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2012-July/008446.html] The grant will be for two years in duration to complete the original first stage of the catalyst strategy. The first year’s grant will be for a total of INR 11,000,000 subject to final budget approvals. The second year will be for a similar amount plus inflation subject to a budget review in May 2013. The grant will be renewable via the Wikimedia Grants program (or the FDC, if CIS were to become an affiliated organization and meet eligibility) Thanks, Srikanth On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 6:26 PM, Gautam John gau...@prathambooks.org wrote: On 8 February 2013 17:44, Vishnu t visdav...@gmail.com wrote: Please join me in welcoming Dr. Tejaswini Niranjana to the Wiki-movement in India. I have taken the liberty to coy her on this mail. Read Dr. Niranjana's profile. Wow! Welcome to the movement! ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Regards, Srikanth Ramakrishnan. Sign this petition to introduce Volvo buses in Coimbatore city: https://www.change.org/en-IN/petitions/the-transport-minister-tamil-nadu-introduction-of-volvo-city-buses-in-the-city-of-coimbatore ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
Dear Srikanth, On 8 February 2013 18:56, Srikanth Ramakrishnan parakara.gh...@gmail.comwrote: Vishnu, thanks for responding. Would you or someone from CIS help me understand the rationale for selecting two individuals affiliated with CSCS which is also affiliated with CIS? First about my affiliation: I am not sure what you mean by affiliation. Technically I am no more affiliated to CSCS for the past 5 years. But intellectually I have friends and associates, because of my stint there from 2002-07. I am unable to see if this is in any way problematic. If it is, I am quite perplexed because I have intellectual connections with faculty/departments in nearly 20 Universities to where I would like to Wiki-movement. Or are you suggesting that there is some deep conspiracy to select ONLY because I was affiliated to CSCS? I personally believe not. But it would be nice to hear the interview panel (especially those representing the Community and Chapter) come in on this. On the other hand I am quite happy to showcase my work at CSCS which gave me an exposure to the debates and challenges of Indian Languages in Higher Education and Research. Similarly my role at SRTT over the past 5 years equipped me other intellectual capacities. Not sure, if I was able to address your concern, but I would encourage you further clarify, so that we have a closure on this. Second about Tejaswini's affiliation: She is the founding director and will continue to be with CSCS. But what I think we should note is that she and other faculty because of their work brought whatever image CSCS has not that CSCS as an organization (which is impossible to think without the 5 people, esp. Dr. Niranjana) has given her credibility. It is her intellectual capacities that I personally see adding value to our movement and plans than just her 'affiliation' to CSCS. By the way she is also affiliated to half a dozen other institutions. Even in her case I am not able to see why 'affiliation' becomes a problem. Again, I think someone from the interview panel should come in on this and clarify whether it is her affiliation to CSCS or intellectual and professional expertise and experience that weighed on their recommendation. About CIS having affiliation to CSCS. Yes they did, I think, currently they don't and in future they may or whatever. So what? I am afraid I do not see the need to explain/see this as THE RATIONALE which drove either CIS or rather the interview panel in recommending the candidates. It looks to me, Srikanth, that you are trying to connect dots to see something, which at least I personally believe is not the case in the first place. I don't mean to question the credentials of either you or Ms Tejaswini, Thanks Srikanth, but I feel you have already done the contrary above and I will not be honest if I say I am not hurt, especially when you trivialize a senior academician like Dr. Niranjana's getting associated to the Wiki-movement in India. If I were part of the interview panel, at least I would take severe exception to your mail. however, was there a need felt for the inclusion of an additional consultant whilst there are already four other members in the CIS Delhi Office (previously WMF India Programs)? I think, I see your point about A2K teams' workload and I am sure my colleagues will be reading this. However, if I were you, I would see Adviser as part of the solution than as problem itself. Mainly because the Adviser will not do the job of any of the A2K team member (who by the way is 3 after Shiju left us). If I understand the logic (from my experience in the not for profit and academic sectors) Advisers generally increase a team's work exponentially, because they throw ideas, opportunities, plans at the team to make them achieve the Goals and also check, criticize, mentor, etc. them. Not sure why you get an impression that she will do the teams' job. But probably the interview panel could throw more light on their 'rationale' for recommending her as an Adviser. At my level I can tell you that in the last 7 days of her coming in, she has given the team a lot to think and do. Do you feel that the current workload on the rest of the team justifies the hiring of an additional consultant? Same as above para. Furthermore, based on my discussions with other members oft he community there appears to be some confusion on the amount of WMF grant quoted in your email above, that is, INR 2.6 crores [~USD 488,000]. If I recall correctly, the grant amount sanctioned by the WMF for CIS's A2k programme stands at INR 1.1 crores [~USD 206,000] with the possibility of further support from the FDC through a separate grant request. Srikanth, here again we are getting misled by the way we are interpreting the terms. Sanctioning a Grant does not mean releasing/disbursing a grant. I have in my earlier capacity sanctioned many grants and there are instances where you do not end up releasing/disbursing the entire amount
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
hi Vishnu, Thank you for clarifying this. Noopur's email slightly confused me to believe that Dr. Niranjana was becoming part of the A2K team under you. That is why I sought the clarification. I think mentioning such additions in a stand alone email would be more worthy of additions such as Dr. Niranjana to the movement. Perhaps, you can still do so, despite your introduction of her on this thread? Welcome to the movement, Dr. Niranjana. warm regards, Pradeep Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email? - http://goo.gl/6v1I9 From: Vishnu t visdav...@gmail.com To: Wikimedia India Community list wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org; t...@cscs.res.in Sent: Friday, 8 February 2013 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13 Dear Pradeep, If I may come-in on this. From: Pradeep Mohandas prad2...@yahoo.com; To: noopur noo...@cis-india.org; Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13 Sent: Thu, Feb 7, 2013 8:05:53 AM Hi, Thank you for the update, Noopur. Could you or someone elaborate on the hiring of Tejaswini Niranjana, please? I assume you are asking about the rational behind hiring Dr. Tejaswini Niranjana as a Consultant Adviser to the A2K team. As many of you on the list may not know, Tejaswini was one of the potential applicants for the position the Programme Director, Access to Knowledge. She had even made it to the short-list of candidates who were interviewed. In fact her interview happened the same day as mine at CIS. However, the interview panel felt that she is too senior and over qualified for the position, but wanted to keep her associated with the Wiki-movement in India. Then the interview panel suggested that we look at taking her as an Consultant Adviser. CIS (i.e. Sunil) went back to the WMF about this recommendation by the interview panel and the WMF accepted it, as uniformly it was felt that she would add tremendous value to the Wiki-movement in India. I personally think that Tejaswini brings with her wealth of experience and professional expertise of working in the sector of Indian Languages in Higher Education. In addition to this she has multiple research institutional contacts and networks, which will potentially add value to the Indian Language Wikipedias and contribute to the expansion of editors and content. I was told that she has already played an instrumental role in facilitating two outreach workshops to researchers and college students in Mumbai and Ahmadnagar, to which some of our Wikipedians friends have gone. I think we should all concur with the strategic decision taken by the interview panel, which I am quite sure will benefit us and the movement. You can find her brief profile here. Please join me in welcoming Dr. Tejaswini Niranjana to the Wiki-movement in India. I have taken the liberty to coy her on this mail. Best regards, Vishnu ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
Welcome Tejaswini. Its great that a person of your wide interests, experience and accomplishments is associated with the Indian language Wikipedian movement. Indian Language Wikipedias need all the help they can get and it is a great asset to have some one like you to present a different viewpoint which will help us chalk up new achievements. Ashwin Baindur ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Vickram Crishna vvcris...@radiophony.comwrote: . I had the privilege of attending a workshop session she conducted in Mumbai a couple of months back, and it was absolutely mind-blowing. Vishnu, I would request that the next such outreach may please be recorded and placed on Commons/Youtube for all to access. We are missing opportunities here. Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur -- ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
Uh, uh. It wasn't an outreach as such, it was an internal (closed) university academic event. -- Vickram Fool On The Hill The cameras were all around. We've got you taped; you're in the play. Here's your I.D. (Ideal for identifying one and all.) Invest your life in the memory bank; ours the interest and we thank you. Jethro Tull: A Passion Play (1973) On Feb 8, 2013 9:54 PM, Ashwin Baindur ashwin.bain...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Vickram Crishna vvcris...@radiophony.comwrote: . I had the privilege of attending a workshop session she conducted in Mumbai a couple of months back, and it was absolutely mind-blowing. Vishnu, I would request that the next such outreach may please be recorded and placed on Commons/Youtube for all to access. We are missing opportunities here. Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur -- ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
Hello Vishnu You seem to be getting awfully defensive in the beginning. On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Vishnu t visdav...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Srikanth, On 8 February 2013 18:56, Srikanth Ramakrishnan parakara.gh...@gmail.com wrote: Vishnu, thanks for responding. Would you or someone from CIS help me understand the rationale for selecting two individuals affiliated with CSCS which is also affiliated with CIS? First about my affiliation: I am not sure what you mean by affiliation. Technically I am no more affiliated to CSCS for the past 5 years. But intellectually I have friends and associates, because of my stint there from 2002-07. I am unable to see if this is in any way problematic. If it is, I am quite perplexed because I have intellectual connections with faculty/departments in nearly 20 Universities to where I would like to Wiki-movement. Or are you suggesting that there is some deep conspiracy to select ONLY because I was affiliated to CSCS? I personally believe not. But it would be nice to hear the interview panel (especially those representing the Community and Chapter) come in on this. On the other hand I am quite happy to showcase my work at CSCS which gave me an exposure to the debates and challenges of Indian Languages in Higher Education and Research. Similarly my role at SRTT over the past 5 years equipped me other intellectual capacities. Not sure, if I was able to address your concern, but I would encourage you further clarify, so that we have a closure on this. Allow me to help. First, here's what Affiliation means[1]. If it helps let's call it association. You mention in the second line, that you haven't been affiliated to CSCS for the past 5 years, implying that you were before then. BTW what is CSCS? I don't know what you mean by where I would like to Wiki-movement it sounds oddly coprophilic. :P I believe Srikanth might indeed be suggesting the latter - a conspiracy! (with dramatic music even) Second about Tejaswini's affiliation: She is the founding director and will continue to be with CSCS. But what I think we should note is that she and other faculty because of their work brought whatever image CSCS has not that CSCS as an organization (which is impossible to think without the 5 people, esp. Dr. Niranjana) has given her credibility. It is her intellectual capacities that I personally see adding value to our movement and plans than just her 'affiliation' to CSCS. By the way she is also affiliated to half a dozen other institutions. Even in her case I am not able to see why 'affiliation' becomes a problem. Again, I think someone from the interview panel should come in on this and clarify whether it is her affiliation to CSCS or intellectual and professional expertise and experience that weighed on their recommendation. I don't know about any of these individuals, I barely know CIS to begin with. I however know Wikimedia and the world that you might be associating with. Both Ms. Tejaswini and you, are prior colleague and your organization had long term association with the one that just hired you. I think the line of questioning is fair, even though these associations are becoming more and more common these days in the same circle. About CIS having affiliation to CSCS. Yes they did, I think, currently they don't and in future they may or whatever. So what? I am afraid I do not see the need to explain/see this as THE RATIONALE which drove either CIS or rather the interview panel in recommending the candidates. It looks to me, Srikanth, that you are trying to connect dots to see something, which at least I personally believe is not the case in the first place. So basically, you just admitted that there is affiliation between the organization that hired you and the one you worked for? to go further, your colleague will be joining you as an advisor. I don't see why you denied it or questioned Srikanth's assumption in the first place - most of them hold true by your own admissions. About the need to explain, I think you did a good job above. In fact, that explanation is quite lengthy if you meant to imply, you don't see a need for it, it might not have worked. I don't mean to question the credentials of either you or Ms Tejaswini, Thanks Srikanth, but I feel you have already done the contrary above and I will not be honest if I say I am not hurt, especially when you trivialize a senior academician like Dr. Niranjana's getting associated to the Wiki-movement in India. If I were part of the interview panel, at least I would take severe exception to your mail. hmmdouble negative, so I'm guessing you meant you are hurt? You could have just stated that. I don't realize why you would take exception to a fair and apparently a viable assumption. I don't know you and I don't know Dr. Niranjana, try and understand Wiki-movement in India doesn't have any relation with you, in fact, it barely knows you. I barely
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
I don't know Vishnu, and I have only followed the recruitment process by email windowshopping, no direct participation. I have also enjoyed and admired the hard work being done by other enthusiastic Wikimedians, now in this debate, over the years. But the questions being asked came across to me as perilously close to trolling, seemingly calculated to raise hackles rather than engage in open discourse. Not that the questions themselves were out of place, just that they could have been expressed better, imho. As far as the fact that suddenly a decent amount of money seems to have entered the Indian wikipedia scenario, I hope that is going to result in things that are hugely positive. The Wikimedia phenomenon is an enormous lesson to the world, especially the money-obsessed world that some politicians seem to think is a good thing, that there are choices on working together where achievements are exponentially superior. This is imho a huge thing, in a world where the ravagers of entire countries end up being rewarded with even higher paid jobs in their chosen sphere of junk bonds and predatory banking. How can we take advantage of the fact that, for the first time, some money might be visible to accomplish things that were just dreams till now? A few days back, at one of our Mumbai meets, we had a visiting Wikimedian. He was telling us about some good stuff happening in glam in the USA. We were grousing about the fact that glam stuff is hard to do here, not per se because of resistance from the archive managers, but because those folks neither have money nor expertise to make their archives available digitally. And he pointed out that it is relatively straightforward to identify a project, give students specific work to do in that connection – scanning, uploading etc – something they can report back to their colleges as internships contributing to their degrees, and get grants from wmf to make sure it is done. I have seen that it is hard for young Wikipedia persons to justify the time and work they put in, especially to their parents. Well, this is one way to show that good work can be done, much more rewarding than say, writing empty code for some banker's CSR initiative for a summer internship. There must be many others. It was news to me, and judging from the expressions of the others at the meeting, news to them as well. There must be zillions of other ways in which we can run such projects to make Indian content available to the world of knowledge, before even more is stolen and expropriated by hoarders. And I think we should celebrate that some money is available to leverage, not complain when some of that money goes to pay wages. -- Vickram Fool On The Hill The cameras were all around. We've got you taped; you're in the play. Here's your I.D. (Ideal for identifying one and all.) Invest your life in the memory bank; ours the interest and we thank you. Jethro Tull: A Passion Play (1973) On Feb 9, 2013 12:27 AM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Vishnu You seem to be getting awfully defensive in the beginning. On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Vishnu t visdav...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Srikanth, On 8 February 2013 18:56, Srikanth Ramakrishnan parakara.gh...@gmail.com wrote: Vishnu, thanks for responding. Would you or someone from CIS help me understand the rationale for selecting two individuals affiliated with CSCS which is also affiliated with CIS? First about my affiliation: I am not sure what you mean by affiliation. Technically I am no more affiliated to CSCS for the past 5 years. But intellectually I have friends and associates, because of my stint there from 2002-07. I am unable to see if this is in any way problematic. If it is, I am quite perplexed because I have intellectual connections with faculty/departments in nearly 20 Universities to where I would like to Wiki-movement. Or are you suggesting that there is some deep conspiracy to select ONLY because I was affiliated to CSCS? I personally believe not. But it would be nice to hear the interview panel (especially those representing the Community and Chapter) come in on this. On the other hand I am quite happy to showcase my work at CSCS which gave me an exposure to the debates and challenges of Indian Languages in Higher Education and Research. Similarly my role at SRTT over the past 5 years equipped me other intellectual capacities. Not sure, if I was able to address your concern, but I would encourage you further clarify, so that we have a closure on this. Allow me to help. First, here's what Affiliation means[1]. If it helps let's call it association. You mention in the second line, that you haven't been affiliated to CSCS for the past 5 years, implying that you were before then. BTW what is CSCS? I don't know what you mean by where I would like to Wiki-movement it sounds oddly coprophilic. :P I believe Srikanth might indeed be suggesting the latter - a conspiracy! (with dramatic
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
Hi all, My best wishes for the new A2K team. A sincere request to all Indian Wikimedians: CIS has been given a grant by WMF. Let CIS do their job in peace and let them be answerable to the grant review committee. Just because they are located in India and working on Indian Wikimedia projects, I don't think they need to answer every question from the community. Especially, hiring related questions and when they are yet to start work. The former Indian Wikimedia office was burnt out precisely because of this negative approach from the community. If the community needs to strengthen the movement, either work on your own language Wikimedia projects or join the India Wikimedia chapter and take it forward. Ravi ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Ravishankar ravidre...@gmail.com wrote: The former Indian Wikimedia office was burnt out precisely because of this negative approach from the community. Can you explain this ? I found this is a baseless allegation In my observation following 2 major factors resulted in the failure India program and restructuring/ handing over project to CIS . 1. Failure of Pune Pilot (There was no role for community in this process . It was gigantic , There was not enough Wikipedia exposure for consultants. Program plan failed in addressing copyvios , windup /stopping plan of pune pilot was not well planned and communicated like do not edit wikipedia anymore) 2. Unwanted time and efforts on building a third entity Wikimedia India Program Trust on a legal safe distance from Wikimedia foundation and wikimedia chapter . Now this is dumped. Please substantiate your allegations on community else withdraw it . ~ regards Anivar ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fw: Re: [A2K]: The Access to Knowledge - Bulletin - January '13
While broadly concurring with Ravi, I have been informed by several Wikimedians that the office also had to deal with a plethora of well-meant queries and initiatives from external sources, ie outside India. I don't think any of us should be afraid to raise doubts, but equally, I don't think any of us should do so in a fashion that implies doubt about anyone's intentions or abilities, unless the questioner has a serious issue with that itself, based on actual experience. My earlier post on this issue needs some more clarity, I think. For Wikimedians, design projects and initiatives to bring our native storehouse of knowledge to the benefit of the whole world (in every form, be it text, visual, aural, graphic, or whatever). For the Chapter (and CIS, together) build processes to ensure that funds can be smoothly funnelled where needed to make those projects and initiatives fructify in a timely fashion. CIS has the necessary certification from the government to allow international Wikimedia funding to be used in India. The Chapter doesn't, afaik. Let us build from our known strengths, together. -- Vickram Fool On The Hill The cameras were all around. We've got you taped; you're in the play. Here's your I.D. (Ideal for identifying one and all.) Invest your life in the memory bank; ours the interest and we thank you. Jethro Tull: A Passion Play (1973) On Feb 9, 2013 10:17 AM, Ravishankar ravidre...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, My best wishes for the new A2K team. A sincere request to all Indian Wikimedians: CIS has been given a grant by WMF. Let CIS do their job in peace and let them be answerable to the grant review committee. Just because they are located in India and working on Indian Wikimedia projects, I don't think they need to answer every question from the community. Especially, hiring related questions and when they are yet to start work. The former Indian Wikimedia office was burnt out precisely because of this negative approach from the community. If the community needs to strengthen the movement, either work on your own language Wikimedia projects or join the India Wikimedia chapter and take it forward. Ravi ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
