[WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the charm)]

2007-05-18 Thread John Scrivner
Why wasn't this done yesterday? I asked that it be done then. The people 
of Waltonville deserve better than three days of bad service.

Scriv


David E. Smith wrote:

Apparently, we will have to run new Ethernet cable at the Waltonville 
tower, as we've now replaced basically everything else there and the 
AP is still doing weird freaky stuff.


yay.

Tell Ron I'm sorry, then clear his morning schedule.

dave



begin:vcard
fn:John Scrivner
n:Scrivner;John
org:Mt. Vernon. Net, Inc.
adr;dom:PO Box 1582;;1 Dr Park Road Suite H1;Mt. Vernon;Il;62864
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:President
tel;work:618-244-6868
url:http://www.mvn.net/
version:2.1
end:vcard

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Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the charm)]

2007-05-18 Thread John Scrivner
Great. I guess if you screw up once you should do it up right and screw 
up the same way twice. I am sorry guys. This should have never gone to 
the list.

Scriv

John Scrivner wrote:

Why wasn't this done yesterday? I asked that it be done then. The 
people of Waltonville deserve better than three days of bad service.

Scriv


David E. Smith wrote:

Apparently, we will have to run new Ethernet cable at the Waltonville 
tower, as we've now replaced basically everything else there and the 
AP is still doing weird freaky stuff.


yay.

Tell Ron I'm sorry, then clear his morning schedule.

dave



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.3/809 - Release Date: 5/17/2007 5:18 PM
 


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[WISPA] RE: Ethernet over 328ft (Russ Kreigh)

2007-05-18 Thread Justin S. Wilson
Bet the climbers would like to listen to the radio. :-). I climbed a
50,000 watt FM radio tower once to replace a flash bulb. Had the radiation
suit and everything. As I climbed they turned down the power and all that
but I could still taste metal in my mouth.  A customer who bought a house
about 2 miles away from this tower. Said he could take a speaker and touch
it to metal on the electrical outlets and pick up the radio station that was
broadcasting from the tower.  
Several years ago I remember seeing a guy getting ready to climb an
AM tower. He did not jump onto the tower like you should. He got a little
bit of a jolt.

Justin


--
Life is unfair, but root password helps
---
Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MTIN.NET Access - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing
CCNA - CCNT - COMTRAIN Certified - ACSA
WEB: http://www.mtin.net
WEB: http://www.findawisp.com
TEL:765.762.2851



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Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Matt Liotta

I know you didn't ask me, but that has never stopped me from speaking up.

I want WISPA to spend its time and money primarily on spectrum issues. I 
like to see the organization meet with the FCC on a regular basis, 
publish position papers, and comment on every FCC issue that impacts us. 
I'd also like to see it issue a press release on the wires every time it 
does so.


Whatever size this industry actual is much larger than it is perceived 
to be. WISPA needs to change that.


-Matt

Peter R. wrote:

Chadd, Lonnie, and the rest,

It is obviously a sales issue: No one has sold you on the value of WISPA.

Or WISPA is not solving some pain you have.

How about you tell us what would be good value?
What specifically are you looking for the organization to do for you?

This is a good time (pre-election).

- Peter


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RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

2007-05-18 Thread Larry A Weidig
I know that both Hutton and TESSCO carry them, I am sure there
are others. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:46 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

That's what I am talking about Larry! Thanks

Who all sales Til-Tek?


Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Rayville, La.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief)
www.mac-tel.us (VoIP sales)
318.728.8600
318.728.9600
318.303.4182




 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Larry A Weidig
 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:39 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices
 
 Mac:
   We have used both of these with success:
   http://www.tiltek.com/final/pdfs/TA-2304-4-180-ISM.pdf
   http://www.tiltek.com/final/pdfs/TA-2304-2-180-ISM.pdf
 The second one is smaller and only has 12.5 dBi gain, the first one
has
 15 dBi.  Just to be clear I have no association or affiliation with
 Til-Tek, just have used these on a couple of sites where three sectors
 (our typical setup as well) was not an option.
   Hope that helps.
 
 * Larry A. Weidig ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
 * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/
 * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area
 * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Mac Dearman
 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:26 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices
 
 
 Does anyone on list have a set of 2.4GHz 180* sector antennas they
would
 like to brag on? I have two towers that need to be sectored out and I
am
 on
 the hunt. I would like to have as much gain as possible at the
antenna.
 
 Any suggestions, comments and feed back are greatly appreciated as I
 have
 never deployed 180* sectors, but we have always used either Omni's or
3
 120*
 sectors. These towers are just Rohn 25G and I cant seem to get enough
 separation up top for the 120* sectors. Been there done that and still
 fighting the issues it causes by mounting the 3 120* sectors too close
 to
 one another.
 
 Thanks folks,
 Mac
 
 
 
 
 
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RE: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Faisal Imtiaz
Hi Folks, 
I am mostly a lurker, being a wireline based ISP, however cannot resist
putting my two cents in it.

If this is what you all want WISPA to do, then you all need to be realistic
in contributing  a heck of lot more than the pidly few bucks to the WISP
fund.  More like a few thousand's) $ / year in membership dues.
The type of role you are suggesting WISP do, can be best done by dedicated
Full Time Professionals (Folks like Kris Tome / Jack Unger etc etc ) none of
them are inexpensive nor can afford to work for free.

Heck, even the US Chamber of Commerce, who calims to play an active role in
Washington DC, gets more in membership dues than WISPA, and they work of a
much much larger base of members (All kinds of business from all over the
US).

It is great to ask for the Moon, but also have to be realistically prepared
to pay the price for it !

(p.s. I am not trying to offend anyone or pick on anyone, just expressing a
dose of reality).


Faisal Imtiaz
SnappyDSL.net

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:40 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

I know you didn't ask me, but that has never stopped me from speaking up.

I want WISPA to spend its time and money primarily on spectrum issues. I
like to see the organization meet with the FCC on a regular basis, publish
position papers, and comment on every FCC issue that impacts us. 
I'd also like to see it issue a press release on the wires every time it
does so.

Whatever size this industry actual is much larger than it is perceived to
be. WISPA needs to change that.

-Matt

Peter R. wrote:
 Chadd, Lonnie, and the rest,

 It is obviously a sales issue: No one has sold you on the value of WISPA.

 Or WISPA is not solving some pain you have.

 How about you tell us what would be good value?
 What specifically are you looking for the organization to do for you?

 This is a good time (pre-election).

 - Peter

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RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

2007-05-18 Thread Mac Dearman
That's what I am talking about Larry! Thanks

Who all sales Til-Tek?


Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Rayville, La.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief)
www.mac-tel.us (VoIP sales)
318.728.8600
318.728.9600
318.303.4182




 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Larry A Weidig
 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:39 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices
 
 Mac:
   We have used both of these with success:
   http://www.tiltek.com/final/pdfs/TA-2304-4-180-ISM.pdf
   http://www.tiltek.com/final/pdfs/TA-2304-2-180-ISM.pdf
 The second one is smaller and only has 12.5 dBi gain, the first one has
 15 dBi.  Just to be clear I have no association or affiliation with
 Til-Tek, just have used these on a couple of sites where three sectors
 (our typical setup as well) was not an option.
   Hope that helps.
 
 * Larry A. Weidig ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
 * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/
 * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area
 * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Mac Dearman
 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:26 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices
 
 
 Does anyone on list have a set of 2.4GHz 180* sector antennas they would
 like to brag on? I have two towers that need to be sectored out and I am
 on
 the hunt. I would like to have as much gain as possible at the antenna.
 
 Any suggestions, comments and feed back are greatly appreciated as I
 have
 never deployed 180* sectors, but we have always used either Omni's or 3
 120*
 sectors. These towers are just Rohn 25G and I cant seem to get enough
 separation up top for the 120* sectors. Been there done that and still
 fighting the issues it causes by mounting the 3 120* sectors too close
 to
 one another.
 
 Thanks folks,
 Mac
 
 
 
 
 
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 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

2007-05-18 Thread Mac Dearman

Does anyone on list have a set of 2.4GHz 180* sector antennas they would
like to brag on? I have two towers that need to be sectored out and I am on
the hunt. I would like to have as much gain as possible at the antenna.

Any suggestions, comments and feed back are greatly appreciated as I have
never deployed 180* sectors, but we have always used either Omni's or 3 120*
sectors. These towers are just Rohn 25G and I cant seem to get enough
separation up top for the 120* sectors. Been there done that and still
fighting the issues it causes by mounting the 3 120* sectors too close to
one another.

Thanks folks,
Mac 





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[WISPA] BNSF tower co-location

2007-05-18 Thread D. Ryan Spott
Does anyone here have a contact for BNSF (Burlington Northern-Santa  
Fe Rail Road) tower co-location?


I have called the gentleman listed in the FCC database for the towers  
I am interested in and he has passed on my information a few times  
now with no results.


An actual co-location person I could speak to would be nice.

ryan
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Re: [WISPA] BNSF tower co-location

2007-05-18 Thread Mike Hammett

Maybe this?

http://www.bnsf.com/tools/realestate/index.html


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: undisclosed-recipients:
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:33 PM
Subject: [WISPA] BNSF tower co-location


Does anyone here have a contact for BNSF (Burlington Northern-Santa  
Fe Rail Road) tower co-location?


I have called the gentleman listed in the FCC database for the towers  
I am interested in and he has passed on my information a few times  
now with no results.


An actual co-location person I could speak to would be nice.

ryan
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Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Peter R.

Chadd, Lonnie, and the rest,

It is obviously a sales issue: No one has sold you on the value of WISPA.

Or WISPA is not solving some pain you have.

How about you tell us what would be good value?
What specifically are you looking for the organization to do for you?

This is a good time (pre-election).

- Peter
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Re: [WISPA] BNSF tower co-location

2007-05-18 Thread Mike Hammett

Perhaps this one would help too:

http://www.bnsf.com/tools/realestate/staubachcontacts.html


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: undisclosed-recipients:
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:33 PM
Subject: [WISPA] BNSF tower co-location


Does anyone here have a contact for BNSF (Burlington Northern-Santa  
Fe Rail Road) tower co-location?


I have called the gentleman listed in the FCC database for the towers  
I am interested in and he has passed on my information a few times  
now with no results.


An actual co-location person I could speak to would be nice.

ryan
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RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

2007-05-18 Thread Larry A Weidig
Mac:
We have used both of these with success:
http://www.tiltek.com/final/pdfs/TA-2304-4-180-ISM.pdf
http://www.tiltek.com/final/pdfs/TA-2304-2-180-ISM.pdf
The second one is smaller and only has 12.5 dBi gain, the first one has
15 dBi.  Just to be clear I have no association or affiliation with
Til-Tek, just have used these on a couple of sites where three sectors
(our typical setup as well) was not an option.
Hope that helps.

* Larry A. Weidig ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
* Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/
* (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area
* (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:26 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices


Does anyone on list have a set of 2.4GHz 180* sector antennas they would
like to brag on? I have two towers that need to be sectored out and I am
on
the hunt. I would like to have as much gain as possible at the antenna.

Any suggestions, comments and feed back are greatly appreciated as I
have
never deployed 180* sectors, but we have always used either Omni's or 3
120*
sectors. These towers are just Rohn 25G and I cant seem to get enough
separation up top for the 120* sectors. Been there done that and still
fighting the issues it causes by mounting the 3 120* sectors too close
to
one another.

Thanks folks,
Mac 





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RE: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-18 Thread Chadd Thompson
Please don't take this in a negative tone because it is not meant to be, I
know it is hard to judge tone through an email.

 It astounds me that you would make the statement above but not
 understand why it is your obligation to pay the $25 a month it costs to
 pay your part. If you cannot pay $25 a month for the things we are doing
 then you are not seeing the bigger picture. You cannot afford not to pay
 your dues. I have saved several times more than I pay in dues with what
 I get from WISPA. If you don't then you have simply not looked at what
 we are offering..

I really don't know what WISPA is offering members as far as benefits. I am
looking at the WISPA web site as I type this. There is nothing on the web
site indicating what WISPA is doing and or has done since it has been
around. I may not be looking in the right place on the web site but all I
see is some general news. To get members you have to show people what the
value is to join. Again I know people are working on stuff in tbe background
but what? Maybe once someone joins they have access to different lists or a
different place on the WEB site that shows more of whats going on.

I guess my point here is that in my opinion WISPA needs to do a better job
of selling it self, showing what it's doing and what it has done for our
industry.

 So $25 per month is a deal breaker? Maybe you need a stronger
 association to work to find ways of making you more money. Then again if
 you cannot see the value then why would you join?

Again see my comments above, I really don't know what the value of WISPA is,
please exlpain to me what the benefits of membership are.


 I am not a WISPA member and I don't consider myself a freeloader
 here. If I
 give input to one person a month on a problem they are having I
 have pulled
 my weight.
 
 
 Sorry. That is not enough. We need dues to do the work of what needs to
 be done in WISPA. We all help each other on the lists. That goes both
 ways  You never get help from people on the lists?

Yes I get help from others on the list. This was more of a reply to indicate
that normal interaction on the freelist should justify ones being there and
that as long as there is back and fourth assistance then someone is pulling
thier weight as far as the freelist goes.



 That does not help lobby for change in regulatory or legislative
 efforts. I work for free as basically an executive director for this
 organization, Marlon works for free  basically as a lobbyist. Rick
 Harnish runs 60 list servers for free. Matt Larsen runs the WISPA
 website. Do you think we do this so we can get an attaboy? We do this to
 help guys like you. We won't be here doing it for free forever. Who does
 the heavy lifting if we all decided to do it your way? Who pays the
 bills then?

What has and what is WISPA lobbying for? What has WISPA successfully lobbied
for?


 As I have mentioned before, everytime I get ready to open up the
 wallet to
 join crap like this comes up and makes me wonder if it is a good
 investment.
 Talk of free listserver members being freeloaders and not
 supporting the org
 is sure as hell not a good way to drive up membership.
 
  What is the feel good way for us to convince you that the $3000 worth
 of free legal help we gave out for CALEA is worth the $250 a year? That
 is just one thing WISPA has done for WISPs lately. We constantly work to
 help. If you cannot see it then you just are not paying enough attention
 to what we do for you guys here.
 Scriv

I am sorry but as I mentioned above I can not see from the outside what
WISPA is doing or has going on. Maybe I am not paying close enough
attention, I don't know.

As far as a feel good way that I would be getting my $$ worth, for one thing
I think that seeing that the code of ethics was being upheld as defined for
the org would be a good starter.

ARTICLE II
We will conduct ourselves in such a manner as to bring credit to our
industry and enhance its reputation.

ARTICLE III
We will publicize our services in a professional manner upholding the
dignity of our profession. We will avoid all conduct, practices and
promotion likely to discredit or do injury to our field of endeavor.

ARTICLE IV
We will strive to broaden public understanding and enhance public regard and
confidence in our Industry.

) Not disparage other members by statement or innuendo to clients or
prospective clients.

Looking from the outside it doesn't always appear that the ORG is able to
uphold the code of ethics. This is mainly based off of discussions held on
the freelist. I see comments from members, officers of the ORG that I feel
do not uphold the above listed items from the code of ethics.

Again please read this as an outsider looking in, trying to understand what
WISPA has going on or as done for our industry and what the value is for me
to join. I am not saying WISPA is not doing or has not done anything for our
industry. I just need some help understanding.

Thanks,
Chadd Thompson

-- 

Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Matt Liotta
I completely agree with you. WISPA doesn't charge enough to do what I 
believe should be their mission.


-Matt

Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
Hi Folks, 
I am mostly a lurker, being a wireline based ISP, however cannot resist

putting my two cents in it.

If this is what you all want WISPA to do, then you all need to be realistic
in contributing  a heck of lot more than the pidly few bucks to the WISP
fund.  More like a few thousand's) $ / year in membership dues.
The type of role you are suggesting WISP do, can be best done by dedicated
Full Time Professionals (Folks like Kris Tome / Jack Unger etc etc ) none of
them are inexpensive nor can afford to work for free.

Heck, even the US Chamber of Commerce, who calims to play an active role in
Washington DC, gets more in membership dues than WISPA, and they work of a
much much larger base of members (All kinds of business from all over the
US).

It is great to ask for the Moon, but also have to be realistically prepared
to pay the price for it !

(p.s. I am not trying to offend anyone or pick on anyone, just expressing a
dose of reality).


Faisal Imtiaz
SnappyDSL.net

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:40 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

I know you didn't ask me, but that has never stopped me from speaking up.

I want WISPA to spend its time and money primarily on spectrum issues. I
like to see the organization meet with the FCC on a regular basis, publish
position papers, and comment on every FCC issue that impacts us. 
I'd also like to see it issue a press release on the wires every time it

does so.

Whatever size this industry actual is much larger than it is perceived to
be. WISPA needs to change that.

-Matt

Peter R. wrote:
  

Chadd, Lonnie, and the rest,

It is obviously a sales issue: No one has sold you on the value of WISPA.

Or WISPA is not solving some pain you have.

How about you tell us what would be good value?
What specifically are you looking for the organization to do for you?

This is a good time (pre-election).

- Peter



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Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email

2007-05-18 Thread Ross Cornett
you are right.  I will have to come there, cus this poor state is trying to 
outlaw the ar 15 and others... Now that you mention it, i know a friend that 
has an AR 15... that sounds really cooll.The smiley face would look 
pretty cool with that...

thanks Marlon
- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email



Ross, you need to come up here and use my AR-15 to do the shooting

Much more fun to blow 30 small holes though the POS in a few seconds than 
a few big ones in a couple of minutes!  big grin


Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Ross Cornett [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email


I appreciate it, but the financial side of it has my attention. .It is 
truly a depreciable asset as long As I own it.  I would lose that if I 
sold it.


So, i will still shoot it... and place it in a trophy case and thenpost 
the video for you all to see.  I will call it barracuda hunting... lol


- Original Message - 
From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email



Butch Evans wrote:

On Wed, 16 May 2007, Ross Cornett wrote:


NOpe... worth more to me to shoot it...


Not wanting to start a bidding war, but where do you draw that line? I
may have a use for it, too (assuming the price is not too much).



Okay, sixty dollars, but that's my final offer. :)

My point really was that, since the Barracuda is just PC hardware,
it's not a total loss (and probably not worth shooting). Even if you
don't want to filter email with it, it still has some value. (From what
I know of how they're built, I'd guess a recent Barracuda 400, which
retails for about $4000, is probably worth $1000 or so from the hardware
included. Paradoxically, the older ones are probably worth a bit more,
as they had a hardware RAID controller instead of using Linux software
RAID.)

If you really were gonna shoot it (and that wasn't just a gesture of
frustration), seriously, between Butch Evans and I, we'll find a good
home for it (that has nothing to do with email).

David Smith
MVN.net
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[WISPA] Signal opinions

2007-05-18 Thread Mark McElvy
I run Mikrotik AP's, 15db 120 sectors, WLM54G radios, running Tranzeo
CPQ radios. I have noticed on one sector specifically but not positive
about the others, that the CPQ can see the AP with a -75 and the AP will
see the client a -90. I don't understand the disparity between the
radios. 

 

Mark McElvy



 

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RE: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
That depends Matt...

If EVERYONE on the 'free list' were paid members; who knows if the dues
would be enoughfor starters at least! :)

- Cliff




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:48 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

I completely agree with you. WISPA doesn't charge enough to do what I 
believe should be their mission.

-Matt

Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
 Hi Folks, 
 I am mostly a lurker, being a wireline based ISP, however cannot
resist
 putting my two cents in it.

 If this is what you all want WISPA to do, then you all need to be
realistic
 in contributing  a heck of lot more than the pidly few bucks to the
WISP
 fund.  More like a few thousand's) $ / year in membership dues.
 The type of role you are suggesting WISP do, can be best done by
dedicated
 Full Time Professionals (Folks like Kris Tome / Jack Unger etc etc )
none of
 them are inexpensive nor can afford to work for free.

 Heck, even the US Chamber of Commerce, who calims to play an active
role in
 Washington DC, gets more in membership dues than WISPA, and they work
of a
 much much larger base of members (All kinds of business from all over
the
 US).

 It is great to ask for the Moon, but also have to be realistically
prepared
 to pay the price for it !

 (p.s. I am not trying to offend anyone or pick on anyone, just
expressing a
 dose of reality).


 Faisal Imtiaz
 SnappyDSL.net

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Matt Liotta
 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:40 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

 I know you didn't ask me, but that has never stopped me from speaking
up.

 I want WISPA to spend its time and money primarily on spectrum issues.
I
 like to see the organization meet with the FCC on a regular basis,
publish
 position papers, and comment on every FCC issue that impacts us. 
 I'd also like to see it issue a press release on the wires every time
it
 does so.

 Whatever size this industry actual is much larger than it is perceived
to
 be. WISPA needs to change that.

 -Matt

 Peter R. wrote:
   
 Chadd, Lonnie, and the rest,

 It is obviously a sales issue: No one has sold you on the value of
WISPA.

 Or WISPA is not solving some pain you have.

 How about you tell us what would be good value?
 What specifically are you looking for the organization to do for you?

 This is a good time (pre-election).

 - Peter
 

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RE: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-18 Thread Butch Evans

On Fri, 18 May 2007, Chadd Thompson wrote:

I am sorry but as I mentioned above I can not see from the outside 
what WISPA is doing or has going on. Maybe I am not paying close 
enough attention, I don't know.


I'll just mention TWO examples.  Direct $ for $ examples, too.  You 
may not be using these services, but they answer the question, and 
both were posted right here on this list.


1. Kris Twomey (even now) is selling the legal service of doing the 
filing for CALEA at $100 (or $125...I can't recall) for WISPA 
members.  He charges $250 to do it for NON WISPA members.  That is a 
direct $125 (worst case) savings.  If you use this service, the 
real cost of a WISPA membership is $125.


2. Frank Muto sells an email filtering service (Postini) and has 
offered to pay for your full WISPA membership with the purchase of 
some level of service with him.  I can't recall the specific 
details, but his offer makes WISPA membership absolutely free.


Those are just 2 examples, both of which were posted right here on 
this free list.


Looking from the outside it doesn't always appear that the ORG is 
able to uphold the code of ethics. This is mainly based off of 
discussions held on the freelist. I see comments from members, 
officers of the ORG that I feel do not uphold the above listed 
items from the code of ethics.


I'd really like to understand what you see that makes this a true 
statement.


Again please read this as an outsider looking in, trying to 
understand what WISPA has going on or as done for our industry and 
what the value is for me to join. I am not saying WISPA is not 
doing or has not done anything for our industry. I just need some 
help understanding.


I am not gonna sell you the organization.  But I will work on 
answering this a little.


1. WISPA is right now working on a standard that will make CALEA 
safe harbor VERY INEXPENSIVE for WISPs.  Not just members.  This is 
an INDUSTRY solution.


2. WISPA has been urging WISPs to file the 477 forms, which is 
important because it will make us, as an industry, a larger portion 
of the broadband deployment in the US (statistically) as far as the 
government is concerned.  Why is this important?  Besides being the 
law, government is working to insure that every American has access 
to broadband.  If we are providing that service in an area and they 
don't know about it, they will still work on a way to get that 
access available.


3. WISPA has urged (on several occasions) WISPs to file comments on 
various spectrum issues that would be beneficial to WISPs.  WISPA 
has (as an organization) filed comments as well.  Because we don't 
have the $$ to hire a lobby, this is the best effort in this regard.


Now it's time to ask YOU what YOU have done for our industry.  Have 
you filed comments on the issues that will impact your business? 
For the most part, over the past couple of years WISPA has.  Have 
you filed your 477?


If you're not going to join, then just don't join.  Stop making 
excuses about what are you doing...You claim to be on the list 
since the beginning and you can't see what's been happening?  What 
advantage does WISPA offer you?  Give me a break.  WISPA has done a 
LOT, considering the $$ that they have to work with.  Either join or 
don't, but stop acting as though you need to be sold because you 
can't find anything on the website giving you what the value of 
WISPA is.


FWIW, I do agree that WISPA needs to do a better job of selling 
itself on the website, but the point (in your case) is that you are 
just using it as an excuse, IMO.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html
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Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Frank Muto
That is going to take a whole lot of $25 a month membership dues. I highly 
suggest contacting COMPTEL and get some mentoring on what it will take to 
get WISPA to the level that Matt has described here. I would be happy to 
team up some potential people to talk to over there. COMPTEL has been a good 
friend of the WBIA and helped us a great deal in our beginning.


It is all going to take funding. I would highly recommend a strong 
membership drive starting with next weeks ISPCON and any other industry 
conference WISP related. WISPs themselves need to understand, that their $25 
monthly contributions are an INVESTMENT for their FUTURE and also provides 
them a contributory voice within the organization. I would also hit up the 
vendors of the products and services all WISPs use. Without WISPs and their 
growing numbers, they will limit they own sales channels.


There are plenty of no-to-low cost things to do as well as those that will 
take some cash to do so. In any event, there is no longer a free ride that 
can be assumed and if this organization is to grow to the level it needs to 
be, it needs people and funding to do so.


As others have said, what is WISPA doing to sell itself? Yes, that is an 
important mechanism of running an organization that needs contributory 
funding to work.
For the most part, marketing, advertising, PR etc., has not been a strong 
suite for xISPs. So for this to happen, WISPA needs to step outside the 
peering ranks of WISPs and get a PR person/firm  involved to drive 
membership and create the buzz of what WISPA is all about, what they are 
doing and what they have accomplished.




Frank Muto
President
FSM Marketing Group, Inc.
Co-founder - Washington Bureau for ISP Advocacy - WBIA








- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?



I know you didn't ask me, but that has never stopped me from speaking up.

I want WISPA to spend its time and money primarily on spectrum issues. I 
like to see the organization meet with the FCC on a regular basis, publish 
position papers, and comment on every FCC issue that impacts us. I'd also 
like to see it issue a press release on the wires every time it does so.


Whatever size this industry actual is much larger than it is perceived to 
be. WISPA needs to change that.


-Matt

Peter R. wrote:

Chadd, Lonnie, and the rest,

It is obviously a sales issue: No one has sold you on the value of WISPA.

Or WISPA is not solving some pain you have.

How about you tell us what would be good value?
What specifically are you looking for the organization to do for you?

This is a good time (pre-election).

- Peter


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RE: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-18 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
Butch, I have also seen more valuable information shared amongst paid
members such as contracts for towers, roof rights and end-user
agreements. Each of these documents could be well-worth the annual fee
individually.

You also get voting rights which help you steer WISPA's direction.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:19 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list

On Fri, 18 May 2007, Chadd Thompson wrote:

I am sorry but as I mentioned above I can not see from the outside 
what WISPA is doing or has going on. Maybe I am not paying close 
enough attention, I don't know.

I'll just mention TWO examples.  Direct $ for $ examples, too.  You 
may not be using these services, but they answer the question, and 
both were posted right here on this list.

1. Kris Twomey (even now) is selling the legal service of doing the 
filing for CALEA at $100 (or $125...I can't recall) for WISPA 
members.  He charges $250 to do it for NON WISPA members.  That is a 
direct $125 (worst case) savings.  If you use this service, the 
real cost of a WISPA membership is $125.

2. Frank Muto sells an email filtering service (Postini) and has 
offered to pay for your full WISPA membership with the purchase of 
some level of service with him.  I can't recall the specific 
details, but his offer makes WISPA membership absolutely free.

Those are just 2 examples, both of which were posted right here on 
this free list.

Looking from the outside it doesn't always appear that the ORG is 
able to uphold the code of ethics. This is mainly based off of 
discussions held on the freelist. I see comments from members, 
officers of the ORG that I feel do not uphold the above listed 
items from the code of ethics.

I'd really like to understand what you see that makes this a true 
statement.

Again please read this as an outsider looking in, trying to 
understand what WISPA has going on or as done for our industry and 
what the value is for me to join. I am not saying WISPA is not 
doing or has not done anything for our industry. I just need some 
help understanding.

I am not gonna sell you the organization.  But I will work on 
answering this a little.

1. WISPA is right now working on a standard that will make CALEA 
safe harbor VERY INEXPENSIVE for WISPs.  Not just members.  This is 
an INDUSTRY solution.

2. WISPA has been urging WISPs to file the 477 forms, which is 
important because it will make us, as an industry, a larger portion 
of the broadband deployment in the US (statistically) as far as the 
government is concerned.  Why is this important?  Besides being the 
law, government is working to insure that every American has access 
to broadband.  If we are providing that service in an area and they 
don't know about it, they will still work on a way to get that 
access available.

3. WISPA has urged (on several occasions) WISPs to file comments on 
various spectrum issues that would be beneficial to WISPs.  WISPA 
has (as an organization) filed comments as well.  Because we don't 
have the $$ to hire a lobby, this is the best effort in this regard.

Now it's time to ask YOU what YOU have done for our industry.  Have 
you filed comments on the issues that will impact your business? 
For the most part, over the past couple of years WISPA has.  Have 
you filed your 477?

If you're not going to join, then just don't join.  Stop making 
excuses about what are you doing...You claim to be on the list 
since the beginning and you can't see what's been happening?  What 
advantage does WISPA offer you?  Give me a break.  WISPA has done a 
LOT, considering the $$ that they have to work with.  Either join or 
don't, but stop acting as though you need to be sold because you 
can't find anything on the website giving you what the value of 
WISPA is.

FWIW, I do agree that WISPA needs to do a better job of selling 
itself on the website, but the point (in your case) is that you are 
just using it as an excuse, IMO.

-- 
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html
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VERSION:2.1
X-MS-SIGNATURE:YES
N;LANGUAGE=en-us:LeBoeuf;Cliff
FN:Cliff LeBoeuf
ORG:Computer Sales  Services, Inc.
TEL;WORK;VOICE:(985) 879-3219
ADR;WORK;PREF:;;1162 Barrow Street;Houma;LA;70360;United States of America
LABEL;WORK;PREF;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:1162 Barrow Street=0D=0A=
Houma, LA 70360
X-MS-OL-DEFAULT-POSTAL-ADDRESS:2
URL;WORK:www.cssla.com www.triparish.net
EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-MS-TEXT;CUSTOM1:Computers - Copiers - 

Re: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

2007-05-18 Thread Jory Privett
I have been using the Comtelco 180s and they seem to work fine.  Got them 
from Electrocom.


Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:26 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices




Does anyone on list have a set of 2.4GHz 180* sector antennas they would
like to brag on? I have two towers that need to be sectored out and I am 
on

the hunt. I would like to have as much gain as possible at the antenna.

Any suggestions, comments and feed back are greatly appreciated as I have
never deployed 180* sectors, but we have always used either Omni's or 3 
120*

sectors. These towers are just Rohn 25G and I cant seem to get enough
separation up top for the 120* sectors. Been there done that and still
fighting the issues it causes by mounting the 3 120* sectors too close to
one another.

Thanks folks,
Mac





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Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Matt Liotta
One thing of interest that COMPTEL does is charge a different membership 
fee based upon the revenue of the member. In other words, companies with 
more revenue pay higher membership fees.


-Matt

Frank Muto wrote:
That is going to take a whole lot of $25 a month membership dues. I 
highly suggest contacting COMPTEL and get some mentoring on what it 
will take to get WISPA to the level that Matt has described here. I 
would be happy to team up some potential people to talk to over there. 
COMPTEL has been a good friend of the WBIA and helped us a great deal 
in our beginning.


It is all going to take funding. I would highly recommend a strong 
membership drive starting with next weeks ISPCON and any other 
industry conference WISP related. WISPs themselves need to understand, 
that their $25 monthly contributions are an INVESTMENT for their 
FUTURE and also provides them a contributory voice within the 
organization. I would also hit up the vendors of the products and 
services all WISPs use. Without WISPs and their growing numbers, they 
will limit they own sales channels.


There are plenty of no-to-low cost things to do as well as those that 
will take some cash to do so. In any event, there is no longer a free 
ride that can be assumed and if this organization is to grow to the 
level it needs to be, it needs people and funding to do so.


As others have said, what is WISPA doing to sell itself? Yes, that is 
an important mechanism of running an organization that needs 
contributory funding to work.
For the most part, marketing, advertising, PR etc., has not been a 
strong suite for xISPs. So for this to happen, WISPA needs to step 
outside the peering ranks of WISPs and get a PR person/firm  involved 
to drive membership and create the buzz of what WISPA is all about, 
what they are doing and what they have accomplished.




Frank Muto
President
FSM Marketing Group, Inc.
Co-founder - Washington Bureau for ISP Advocacy - WBIA








- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?


I know you didn't ask me, but that has never stopped me from speaking 
up.


I want WISPA to spend its time and money primarily on spectrum 
issues. I like to see the organization meet with the FCC on a regular 
basis, publish position papers, and comment on every FCC issue that 
impacts us. I'd also like to see it issue a press release on the 
wires every time it does so.


Whatever size this industry actual is much larger than it is 
perceived to be. WISPA needs to change that.


-Matt

Peter R. wrote:

Chadd, Lonnie, and the rest,

It is obviously a sales issue: No one has sold you on the value of 
WISPA.


Or WISPA is not solving some pain you have.

How about you tell us what would be good value?
What specifically are you looking for the organization to do for you?

This is a good time (pre-election).

- Peter




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Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Frank Muto
Which is true, but they have been around a long time and part of several 
merged associations. You need to start somewhere and by looking COMPTEL as a 
model, you can form a basis on how WISPA can improve. They also have a CEO 
council made up within COMPTEL as a separate entity.


Let's look at this in a smaller scale. If you have 1k WISPs paying $25 a 
month, it adds up... that's $25k monthly. Now let's say you up it to $50, 
now you are at $50k.


Now with those examples, the next issue you will get is the moans on what 
WISPA is doing with the money. Everyone will be on the bandwagon on what to 
do with the funding. So, unless the group matures and growth is established 
organically with the understanding that WISPs all WISPs must join together 
and show solidarity to those that they are working for, it does not matter 
what the cost is.




Frank Muto





- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]



One thing of interest that COMPTEL does is charge a different membership 
fee based upon the revenue of the member. In other words, companies with 
more revenue pay higher membership fees.


-Matt

Frank Muto wrote:
That is going to take a whole lot of $25 a month membership dues. I 
highly suggest contacting COMPTEL and get some mentoring on what it will 
take to get WISPA to the level that Matt has described here. I would be 
happy to team up some potential people to talk to over there. COMPTEL has 
been a good friend of the WBIA and helped us a great deal in our 
beginning.


It is all going to take funding. I would highly recommend a strong 
membership drive starting with next weeks ISPCON and any other industry 
conference WISP related. WISPs themselves need to understand, that their 
$25 monthly contributions are an INVESTMENT for their FUTURE and also 
provides them a contributory voice within the organization. I would also 
hit up the vendors of the products and services all WISPs use. Without 
WISPs and their growing numbers, they will limit they own sales channels.


There are plenty of no-to-low cost things to do as well as those that 
will take some cash to do so. In any event, there is no longer a free 
ride that can be assumed and if this organization is to grow to the level 
it needs to be, it needs people and funding to do so.


As others have said, what is WISPA doing to sell itself? Yes, that is an 
important mechanism of running an organization that needs contributory 
funding to work.
For the most part, marketing, advertising, PR etc., has not been a strong 
suite for xISPs. So for this to happen, WISPA needs to step outside the 
peering ranks of WISPs and get a PR person/firm  involved to drive 
membership and create the buzz of what WISPA is all about, what they are 
doing and what they have accomplished.




Frank Muto
President
FSM Marketing Group, Inc.
Co-founder - Washington Bureau for ISP Advocacy - WBIA








- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?


I know you didn't ask me, but that has never stopped me from speaking 
up.


I want WISPA to spend its time and money primarily on spectrum issues. I 
like to see the organization meet with the FCC on a regular basis, 
publish position papers, and comment on every FCC issue that impacts us. 
I'd also like to see it issue a press release on the wires every time it 
does so.


Whatever size this industry actual is much larger than it is perceived 
to be. WISPA needs to change that.


-Matt

Peter R. wrote:

Chadd, Lonnie, and the rest,

It is obviously a sales issue: No one has sold you on the value of 
WISPA.


Or WISPA is not solving some pain you have.

How about you tell us what would be good value?
What specifically are you looking for the organization to do for you?

This is a good time (pre-election).

- Peter


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Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Peter R.

Frank Muto wrote:

Now with those examples, the next issue you will get is the moans on 
what WISPA is doing with the money. Everyone will be on the bandwagon 
on what to do with the funding. So, unless the group matures and 
growth is established organically with the understanding that WISPs 
all WISPs must join together and show solidarity to those that they 
are working for, it does not matter what the cost is.


OH, MAN! is THAT true.  Even the ones who don't pay dues will be telling you 
how to spend it!

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Re: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

2007-05-18 Thread Jack Unger

Mac,

Before you discard the idea of using three 120* sectors are you 
absolutely certain that the separation issue is really due to the 
antennas not being far enough apart? Have you thoroughly looked at other 
reasons why there could be interference between three APs like:


1. Using three cards on a single motherboard in one enclosure without 
sufficient shielding between them.


2. Using three APs that are configured on frequencies that are too close 
together and are interfering with each other?


I guess what I'm asking is (before you go spend money on antennas that 
may or may not solve the problem) what equipment are you currently 
using, how is it configured, and how far apart can you actually get 
three sector antennas on the 25G tower?


jack



Mac Dearman wrote:

Does anyone on list have a set of 2.4GHz 180* sector antennas they would
like to brag on? I have two towers that need to be sectored out and I am on
the hunt. I would like to have as much gain as possible at the antenna.

Any suggestions, comments and feed back are greatly appreciated as I have
never deployed 180* sectors, but we have always used either Omni's or 3 120*
sectors. These towers are just Rohn 25G and I cant seem to get enough
separation up top for the 120* sectors. Been there done that and still
fighting the issues it causes by mounting the 3 120* sectors too close to
one another.

Thanks folks,
Mac 








--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com


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Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the charm)]

2007-05-18 Thread JohnnyO
Dangit Marlon - I thought you were going to take care of this ! If your 
performance and timeliness doesn't improve immediately, I'll have you in 
Idaho pickin potatoes !


JohnnyO
- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the charm)]



Why wasn't this done yesterday? I asked that it be done then. The people
of Waltonville deserve better than three days of bad service.
Scriv


David E. Smith wrote:


Apparently, we will have to run new Ethernet cable at the Waltonville
tower, as we've now replaced basically everything else there and the
AP is still doing weird freaky stuff.

yay.

Tell Ron I'm sorry, then clear his morning schedule.

dave











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RE: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-18 Thread Robert Norris
Well as a new member to Wispa I have already got back half my dues by using
Kris Twomey, and I am gonna look at Frank Muto's product.

Robert

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:19 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list

On Fri, 18 May 2007, Chadd Thompson wrote:

I am sorry but as I mentioned above I can not see from the outside 
what WISPA is doing or has going on. Maybe I am not paying close 
enough attention, I don't know.

I'll just mention TWO examples.  Direct $ for $ examples, too.  You 
may not be using these services, but they answer the question, and 
both were posted right here on this list.

1. Kris Twomey (even now) is selling the legal service of doing the 
filing for CALEA at $100 (or $125...I can't recall) for WISPA 
members.  He charges $250 to do it for NON WISPA members.  That is a 
direct $125 (worst case) savings.  If you use this service, the 
real cost of a WISPA membership is $125.

2. Frank Muto sells an email filtering service (Postini) and has 
offered to pay for your full WISPA membership with the purchase of 
some level of service with him.  I can't recall the specific 
details, but his offer makes WISPA membership absolutely free.

Those are just 2 examples, both of which were posted right here on 
this free list.

Looking from the outside it doesn't always appear that the ORG is 
able to uphold the code of ethics. This is mainly based off of 
discussions held on the freelist. I see comments from members, 
officers of the ORG that I feel do not uphold the above listed 
items from the code of ethics.

I'd really like to understand what you see that makes this a true 
statement.

Again please read this as an outsider looking in, trying to 
understand what WISPA has going on or as done for our industry and 
what the value is for me to join. I am not saying WISPA is not 
doing or has not done anything for our industry. I just need some 
help understanding.

I am not gonna sell you the organization.  But I will work on 
answering this a little.

1. WISPA is right now working on a standard that will make CALEA 
safe harbor VERY INEXPENSIVE for WISPs.  Not just members.  This is 
an INDUSTRY solution.

2. WISPA has been urging WISPs to file the 477 forms, which is 
important because it will make us, as an industry, a larger portion 
of the broadband deployment in the US (statistically) as far as the 
government is concerned.  Why is this important?  Besides being the 
law, government is working to insure that every American has access 
to broadband.  If we are providing that service in an area and they 
don't know about it, they will still work on a way to get that 
access available.

3. WISPA has urged (on several occasions) WISPs to file comments on 
various spectrum issues that would be beneficial to WISPs.  WISPA 
has (as an organization) filed comments as well.  Because we don't 
have the $$ to hire a lobby, this is the best effort in this regard.

Now it's time to ask YOU what YOU have done for our industry.  Have 
you filed comments on the issues that will impact your business? 
For the most part, over the past couple of years WISPA has.  Have 
you filed your 477?

If you're not going to join, then just don't join.  Stop making 
excuses about what are you doing...You claim to be on the list 
since the beginning and you can't see what's been happening?  What 
advantage does WISPA offer you?  Give me a break.  WISPA has done a 
LOT, considering the $$ that they have to work with.  Either join or 
don't, but stop acting as though you need to be sold because you 
can't find anything on the website giving you what the value of 
WISPA is.

FWIW, I do agree that WISPA needs to do a better job of selling 
itself on the website, but the point (in your case) is that you are 
just using it as an excuse, IMO.

-- 
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html
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Re: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-18 Thread Mark Nash
Same here with Kris Twomey, and I AM now using Frank Muto's Postini
product... He gives a good discount to WISPA members, gave a 30-day trial,
and spent alot of time on the phone with me in training.  Now it's like
Spam? What spam? from my customers that I have turned it on for.

Mark Nash
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - 
From: Robert Norris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:33 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list


 Well as a new member to Wispa I have already got back half my dues by
using
 Kris Twomey, and I am gonna look at Frank Muto's product.

 Robert

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Butch Evans
 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:19 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list

 On Fri, 18 May 2007, Chadd Thompson wrote:

 I am sorry but as I mentioned above I can not see from the outside
 what WISPA is doing or has going on. Maybe I am not paying close
 enough attention, I don't know.

 I'll just mention TWO examples.  Direct $ for $ examples, too.  You
 may not be using these services, but they answer the question, and
 both were posted right here on this list.

 1. Kris Twomey (even now) is selling the legal service of doing the
 filing for CALEA at $100 (or $125...I can't recall) for WISPA
 members.  He charges $250 to do it for NON WISPA members.  That is a
 direct $125 (worst case) savings.  If you use this service, the
 real cost of a WISPA membership is $125.

 2. Frank Muto sells an email filtering service (Postini) and has
 offered to pay for your full WISPA membership with the purchase of
 some level of service with him.  I can't recall the specific
 details, but his offer makes WISPA membership absolutely free.

 Those are just 2 examples, both of which were posted right here on
 this free list.

 Looking from the outside it doesn't always appear that the ORG is
 able to uphold the code of ethics. This is mainly based off of
 discussions held on the freelist. I see comments from members,
 officers of the ORG that I feel do not uphold the above listed
 items from the code of ethics.

 I'd really like to understand what you see that makes this a true
 statement.

 Again please read this as an outsider looking in, trying to
 understand what WISPA has going on or as done for our industry and
 what the value is for me to join. I am not saying WISPA is not
 doing or has not done anything for our industry. I just need some
 help understanding.

 I am not gonna sell you the organization.  But I will work on
 answering this a little.

 1. WISPA is right now working on a standard that will make CALEA
 safe harbor VERY INEXPENSIVE for WISPs.  Not just members.  This is
 an INDUSTRY solution.

 2. WISPA has been urging WISPs to file the 477 forms, which is
 important because it will make us, as an industry, a larger portion
 of the broadband deployment in the US (statistically) as far as the
 government is concerned.  Why is this important?  Besides being the
 law, government is working to insure that every American has access
 to broadband.  If we are providing that service in an area and they
 don't know about it, they will still work on a way to get that
 access available.

 3. WISPA has urged (on several occasions) WISPs to file comments on
 various spectrum issues that would be beneficial to WISPs.  WISPA
 has (as an organization) filed comments as well.  Because we don't
 have the $$ to hire a lobby, this is the best effort in this regard.

 Now it's time to ask YOU what YOU have done for our industry.  Have
 you filed comments on the issues that will impact your business?
 For the most part, over the past couple of years WISPA has.  Have
 you filed your 477?

 If you're not going to join, then just don't join.  Stop making
 excuses about what are you doing...You claim to be on the list
 since the beginning and you can't see what's been happening?  What
 advantage does WISPA offer you?  Give me a break.  WISPA has done a
 LOT, considering the $$ that they have to work with.  Either join or
 don't, but stop acting as though you need to be sold because you
 can't find anything on the website giving you what the value of
 WISPA is.

 FWIW, I do agree that WISPA needs to do a better job of selling
 itself on the website, but the point (in your case) is that you are
 just using it as an excuse, IMO.

 -- 
 Butch Evans
 Network Engineering and Security Consulting
 573-276-2879
 http://www.butchevans.com/
 My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
 Mikrotik Certified Consultant
 http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html
 -- 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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 Archives: 

Re: [WISPA] Signal opinions

2007-05-18 Thread Jack Unger

Mark,

For starters, this can be due to:

1. Lower transmit power on CPE radio compared to AP radio (the CPE 
transmitter may be bad or the CPE may just have a lower rated power 
output than the AP transmitter)


2. Too-low CPE antenna gain (use as high a gain as the FCC and the 
homeowner and the antenna mounting facilities allow)


3. Obstructions at or near the CPE end (you may need to raise the 
antenna higher)


4. Low sensitivity on AP receiver (does this disparity happen on all 
clients or on just one client?)



jack



Mark McElvy wrote:

I run Mikrotik AP's, 15db 120 sectors, WLM54G radios, running Tranzeo
CPQ radios. I have noticed on one sector specifically but not positive
about the others, that the CPQ can see the AP with a -75 and the AP will
see the client a -90. I don't understand the disparity between the
radios. 

 


Mark McElvy



 



--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com


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Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

I wanted to make the dues $1 per year per customer.
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services

42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?


One thing of interest that COMPTEL does is charge a different membership 
fee based upon the revenue of the member. In other words, companies with 
more revenue pay higher membership fees.


-Matt

Frank Muto wrote:
That is going to take a whole lot of $25 a month membership dues. I 
highly suggest contacting COMPTEL and get some mentoring on what it 
will take to get WISPA to the level that Matt has described here. I 
would be happy to team up some potential people to talk to over there. 
COMPTEL has been a good friend of the WBIA and helped us a great deal 
in our beginning.


It is all going to take funding. I would highly recommend a strong 
membership drive starting with next weeks ISPCON and any other 
industry conference WISP related. WISPs themselves need to understand, 
that their $25 monthly contributions are an INVESTMENT for their 
FUTURE and also provides them a contributory voice within the 
organization. I would also hit up the vendors of the products and 
services all WISPs use. Without WISPs and their growing numbers, they 
will limit they own sales channels.


There are plenty of no-to-low cost things to do as well as those that 
will take some cash to do so. In any event, there is no longer a free 
ride that can be assumed and if this organization is to grow to the 
level it needs to be, it needs people and funding to do so.


As others have said, what is WISPA doing to sell itself? Yes, that is 
an important mechanism of running an organization that needs 
contributory funding to work.
For the most part, marketing, advertising, PR etc., has not been a 
strong suite for xISPs. So for this to happen, WISPA needs to step 
outside the peering ranks of WISPs and get a PR person/firm  involved 
to drive membership and create the buzz of what WISPA is all about, 
what they are doing and what they have accomplished.




Frank Muto
President
FSM Marketing Group, Inc.
Co-founder - Washington Bureau for ISP Advocacy - WBIA








- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?


I know you didn't ask me, but that has never stopped me from speaking 
up.


I want WISPA to spend its time and money primarily on spectrum 
issues. I like to see the organization meet with the FCC on a regular 
basis, publish position papers, and comment on every FCC issue that 
impacts us. I'd also like to see it issue a press release on the 
wires every time it does so.


Whatever size this industry actual is much larger than it is 
perceived to be. WISPA needs to change that.


-Matt

Peter R. wrote:

Chadd, Lonnie, and the rest,

It is obviously a sales issue: No one has sold you on the value of 
WISPA.


Or WISPA is not solving some pain you have.

How about you tell us what would be good value?
What specifically are you looking for the organization to do for you?

This is a good time (pre-election).

- Peter




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Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

You've got this backward Peter.

The question is, what value to they bring to WISPA?

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services

42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?



Chadd, Lonnie, and the rest,

It is obviously a sales issue: No one has sold you on the value of WISPA.

Or WISPA is not solving some pain you have.

How about you tell us what would be good value?
What specifically are you looking for the organization to do for you?

This is a good time (pre-election).

- Peter
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Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

We do accept donations at any time!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?


I completely agree with you. WISPA doesn't charge enough to do what I 
believe should be their mission.


-Matt

Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
Hi Folks, I am mostly a lurker, being a wireline based ISP, however 
cannot resist

putting my two cents in it.

If this is what you all want WISPA to do, then you all need to be 
realistic

in contributing  a heck of lot more than the pidly few bucks to the WISP
fund.  More like a few thousand's) $ / year in membership dues.
The type of role you are suggesting WISP do, can be best done by 
dedicated
Full Time Professionals (Folks like Kris Tome / Jack Unger etc etc ) none 
of

them are inexpensive nor can afford to work for free.

Heck, even the US Chamber of Commerce, who calims to play an active role 
in
Washington DC, gets more in membership dues than WISPA, and they work of 
a

much much larger base of members (All kinds of business from all over the
US).

It is great to ask for the Moon, but also have to be realistically 
prepared

to pay the price for it !

(p.s. I am not trying to offend anyone or pick on anyone, just expressing 
a

dose of reality).


Faisal Imtiaz
SnappyDSL.net

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:40 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

I know you didn't ask me, but that has never stopped me from speaking up.

I want WISPA to spend its time and money primarily on spectrum issues. I
like to see the organization meet with the FCC on a regular basis, 
publish
position papers, and comment on every FCC issue that impacts us. I'd also 
like to see it issue a press release on the wires every time it

does so.

Whatever size this industry actual is much larger than it is perceived to
be. WISPA needs to change that.

-Matt

Peter R. wrote:


Chadd, Lonnie, and the rest,

It is obviously a sales issue: No one has sold you on the value of 
WISPA.


Or WISPA is not solving some pain you have.

How about you tell us what would be good value?
What specifically are you looking for the organization to do for you?

This is a good time (pre-election).

- Peter



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Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the charm)]

2007-05-18 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

I'm sorry!

No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn't have 
enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old 
friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an 
earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD.


I'm even built like Jake!  hehehehee

For those that don't get it:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080455/quotes

Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the 
charm)]



Dangit Marlon - I thought you were going to take care of this ! If your 
performance and timeliness doesn't improve immediately, I'll have you in 
Idaho pickin potatoes !


JohnnyO
- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the 
charm)]




Why wasn't this done yesterday? I asked that it be done then. The people
of Waltonville deserve better than three days of bad service.
Scriv


David E. Smith wrote:


Apparently, we will have to run new Ethernet cable at the Waltonville
tower, as we've now replaced basically everything else there and the
AP is still doing weird freaky stuff.

yay.

Tell Ron I'm sorry, then clear his morning schedule.

dave











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Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the charm)]

2007-05-18 Thread Jack Unger

Hey Dude

Quit stealin' my lines, man...


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

I'm sorry!

No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn't 
have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the 
cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. 
There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, 
I SWEAR TO GOD.


I'm even built like Jake!  hehehehee

For those that don't get it:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080455/quotes

Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the 
charm)]



Dangit Marlon - I thought you were going to take care of this ! If 
your performance and timeliness doesn't improve immediately, I'll have 
you in Idaho pickin potatoes !


JohnnyO
- Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the 
charm)]




 earlier stuff disappeared just like it never existed 


--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com


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[WISPA] Re: Waltonville (third time's the charm)

2007-05-18 Thread Lakeland
You sir have too much time on your hands. 

:-) 

-B- 




Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 writes: 

I'm sorry! 

No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn't 
have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. 
An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an 
earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD. 

I'm even built like Jake!  hehehehee 


For those that don't get it:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080455/quotes 


Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam 

 


- Original Message - From: JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the 
charm)] 



Dangit Marlon - I thought you were going to take care of this ! If your 
performance and timeliness doesn't improve immediately, I'll have you in 
Idaho pickin potatoes ! 


JohnnyO
- Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the 
charm)] 




Why wasn't this done yesterday? I asked that it be done then. The people
of Waltonville deserve better than three days of bad service.
Scriv 



David E. Smith wrote: 


Apparently, we will have to run new Ethernet cable at the Waltonville
tower, as we've now replaced basically everything else there and the
AP is still doing weird freaky stuff. 

yay. 

Tell Ron I'm sorry, then clear his morning schedule. 

dave 

 

 

- 
--- 




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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, NY 11741
800-479-9195
631-286-8873 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell 


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Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email

2007-05-18 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

We want pictures!

Seen this yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnxKJqmtITE

Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Ross Cornett [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email


you are right.  I will have to come there, cus this poor state is trying 
to outlaw the ar 15 and others... Now that you mention it, i know a friend 
that has an AR 15... that sounds really cooll.The smiley face would 
look pretty cool with that...

thanks Marlon
- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email



Ross, you need to come up here and use my AR-15 to do the shooting

Much more fun to blow 30 small holes though the POS in a few seconds than 
a few big ones in a couple of minutes!  big grin


Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Ross Cornett [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email


I appreciate it, but the financial side of it has my attention. .It is 
truly a depreciable asset as long As I own it.  I would lose that if I 
sold it.


So, i will still shoot it... and place it in a trophy case and thenpost 
the video for you all to see.  I will call it barracuda hunting... lol


- Original Message - 
From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email



Butch Evans wrote:

On Wed, 16 May 2007, Ross Cornett wrote:


NOpe... worth more to me to shoot it...


Not wanting to start a bidding war, but where do you draw that line? I
may have a use for it, too (assuming the price is not too much).



Okay, sixty dollars, but that's my final offer. :)

My point really was that, since the Barracuda is just PC hardware,
it's not a total loss (and probably not worth shooting). Even if you
don't want to filter email with it, it still has some value. (From what
I know of how they're built, I'd guess a recent Barracuda 400, which
retails for about $4000, is probably worth $1000 or so from the 
hardware

included. Paradoxically, the older ones are probably worth a bit more,
as they had a hardware RAID controller instead of using Linux software
RAID.)

If you really were gonna shoot it (and that wasn't just a gesture of
frustration), seriously, between Butch Evans and I, we'll find a good
home for it (that has nothing to do with email).

David Smith
MVN.net
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RE: [WISPA] Re: Waltonville (third time's the charm)

2007-05-18 Thread Rick Harnish
I think that is what I will be doing Monday, it's about the right distance
even.  Maybe I better find a side kick and some dark sunglasses.

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482
Founding Member of WISPA

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 2:15 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Re: Waltonville (third time's the charm)

That's a great line, but I've always liked this one better:

Elwood: It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of
cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
Jake: Hit it.  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 1:57 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: Waltonville (third time's the charm)

LOL

Google is sometimes very helpful.

I love the Blues Brothers!  I knew just what I wanted but couldn't remember
the exact quote.  Took all of 30 seconds to find it.

Now if only a nice CALEA solution was that fast :-)

How have you been stranger?  I tried calling a couple of times but only got
voice jail.
Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Lakeland [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:37 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Re: Waltonville (third time's the charm)


 You sir have too much time on your hands.
 :-)
 -B-


 Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 writes:
 I'm sorry! No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire.

 I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the

 cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. 
 There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I

 SWEAR TO GOD. I'm even built like Jake!  hehehehee For those that don't 
 get it:
 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080455/quotes Marlon
 (509) 982-2181
 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
 1999!
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
 www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: 
 JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:53 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the 
 charm)]
 Dangit Marlon - I thought you were going to take care of this ! If your 
 performance and timeliness doesn't improve immediately, I'll have you in

 Idaho pickin potatoes ! JohnnyO
 - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:24 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the 
 charm)]
 Why wasn't this done yesterday? I asked that it be done then. The 
 people
 of Waltonville deserve better than three days of bad service.
 Scriv David E. Smith wrote:
 Apparently, we will have to run new Ethernet cable at the Waltonville
 tower, as we've now replaced basically everything else there and the
 AP is still doing weird freaky stuff. yay. Tell Ron I'm sorry, then 
 clear his morning schedule. dave


-
 --- 


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 Bob Moldashel
 Lakeland Communications, Inc.
 1350 Lincoln Avenue
 Holbrook, NY 11741
 800-479-9195
 631-286-8873 Fax
 516-551-1131 Cell
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[WISPA] Raising the Broadband definition

2007-05-18 Thread Ryan Langseth
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070517-house-dems-broadband-isnt-broadband-unless-its-2-mbps.html

Ryan

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Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Mike Hammett

Now that's something even I could afford!  ;-)


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?



I wanted to make the dues $1 per year per customer.
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) 
Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?


One thing of interest that COMPTEL does is charge a different membership 
fee based upon the revenue of the member. In other words, companies with 
more revenue pay higher membership fees.


-Matt

Frank Muto wrote:
That is going to take a whole lot of $25 a month membership dues. I 
highly suggest contacting COMPTEL and get some mentoring on what it will 
take to get WISPA to the level that Matt has described here. I would be 
happy to team up some potential people to talk to over there. COMPTEL 
has been a good friend of the WBIA and helped us a great deal in our 
beginning.


It is all going to take funding. I would highly recommend a strong 
membership drive starting with next weeks ISPCON and any other industry 
conference WISP related. WISPs themselves need to understand, that their 
$25 monthly contributions are an INVESTMENT for their FUTURE and also 
provides them a contributory voice within the organization. I would also 
hit up the vendors of the products and services all WISPs use. Without 
WISPs and their growing numbers, they will limit they own sales 
channels.


There are plenty of no-to-low cost things to do as well as those that 
will take some cash to do so. In any event, there is no longer a free 
ride that can be assumed and if this organization is to grow to the 
level it needs to be, it needs people and funding to do so.


As others have said, what is WISPA doing to sell itself? Yes, that is an 
important mechanism of running an organization that needs contributory 
funding to work.
For the most part, marketing, advertising, PR etc., has not been a 
strong suite for xISPs. So for this to happen, WISPA needs to step 
outside the peering ranks of WISPs and get a PR person/firm  involved to 
drive membership and create the buzz of what WISPA is all about, what 
they are doing and what they have accomplished.




Frank Muto
President
FSM Marketing Group, Inc.
Co-founder - Washington Bureau for ISP Advocacy - WBIA








- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?


I know you didn't ask me, but that has never stopped me from speaking 
up.


I want WISPA to spend its time and money primarily on spectrum issues. 
I like to see the organization meet with the FCC on a regular basis, 
publish position papers, and comment on every FCC issue that impacts 
us. I'd also like to see it issue a press release on the wires every 
time it does so.


Whatever size this industry actual is much larger than it is perceived 
to be. WISPA needs to change that.


-Matt

Peter R. wrote:

Chadd, Lonnie, and the rest,

It is obviously a sales issue: No one has sold you on the value of 
WISPA.


Or WISPA is not solving some pain you have.

How about you tell us what would be good value?
What specifically are you looking for the organization to do for you?

This is a good time (pre-election).

- Peter




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Re: [WISPA] Signal opinions

2007-05-18 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

It's probably a bad receive section on the ap.  Try replacing the radio.

I've also seen water do strange things like this.  Higher powered TX signals 
get though ok, but receive ones don't.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Mark McElvy [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:41 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Signal opinions


I run Mikrotik AP's, 15db 120 sectors, WLM54G radios, running Tranzeo
CPQ radios. I have noticed on one sector specifically but not positive
about the others, that the CPQ can see the AP with a -75 and the AP will
see the client a -90. I don't understand the disparity between the
radios.



Mark McElvy





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Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email

2007-05-18 Thread Ross Cornett

Marlon,

It is doubtfull I will be able to top that, but I will have to try.

that was great...


- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email



We want pictures!

Seen this yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnxKJqmtITE

Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Ross Cornett [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email


you are right.  I will have to come there, cus this poor state is trying 
to outlaw the ar 15 and others... Now that you mention it, i know a 
friend that has an AR 15... that sounds really cooll.The smiley face 
would look pretty cool with that...

thanks Marlon
- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email



Ross, you need to come up here and use my AR-15 to do the shooting

Much more fun to blow 30 small holes though the POS in a few seconds 
than a few big ones in a couple of minutes!  big grin


Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Ross Cornett [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email


I appreciate it, but the financial side of it has my attention. .It is 
truly a depreciable asset as long As I own it.  I would lose that if I 
sold it.


So, i will still shoot it... and place it in a trophy case and thenpost 
the video for you all to see.  I will call it barracuda hunting... lol


- Original Message - 
From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced vs in-house email



Butch Evans wrote:

On Wed, 16 May 2007, Ross Cornett wrote:


NOpe... worth more to me to shoot it...


Not wanting to start a bidding war, but where do you draw that line? 
I

may have a use for it, too (assuming the price is not too much).



Okay, sixty dollars, but that's my final offer. :)

My point really was that, since the Barracuda is just PC hardware,
it's not a total loss (and probably not worth shooting). Even if you
don't want to filter email with it, it still has some value. (From 
what

I know of how they're built, I'd guess a recent Barracuda 400, which
retails for about $4000, is probably worth $1000 or so from the 
hardware

included. Paradoxically, the older ones are probably worth a bit more,
as they had a hardware RAID controller instead of using Linux software
RAID.)

If you really were gonna shoot it (and that wasn't just a gesture of
frustration), seriously, between Butch Evans and I, we'll find a good
home for it (that has nothing to do with email).

David Smith
MVN.net
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Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Mark Nash
I do grow tired of this subject coming up every so often, questioning the
'value' of WISPA.  The time of those who contribute paragraph upon paragraph
upon paragraph upon paragraph upon paragraph is worth 1000X what I pay in
dues anually.

Mark Nash
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?


 Now that's something even I could afford!  ;-)


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - 
 From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:17 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?


 I wanted to make the dues $1 per year per customer.
  Marlon
  (509) 982-2181   (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)
  Consulting services
  42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since
  1999!
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
  www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:47 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?
 
 
  One thing of interest that COMPTEL does is charge a different
membership
  fee based upon the revenue of the member. In other words, companies
with
  more revenue pay higher membership fees.
 
  -Matt
 
  Frank Muto wrote:
  That is going to take a whole lot of $25 a month membership dues. I
  highly suggest contacting COMPTEL and get some mentoring on what it
will
  take to get WISPA to the level that Matt has described here. I would
be
  happy to team up some potential people to talk to over there. COMPTEL
  has been a good friend of the WBIA and helped us a great deal in our
  beginning.
 
  It is all going to take funding. I would highly recommend a strong
  membership drive starting with next weeks ISPCON and any other
industry
  conference WISP related. WISPs themselves need to understand, that
their
  $25 monthly contributions are an INVESTMENT for their FUTURE and also
  provides them a contributory voice within the organization. I would
also
  hit up the vendors of the products and services all WISPs use. Without
  WISPs and their growing numbers, they will limit they own sales
  channels.
 
  There are plenty of no-to-low cost things to do as well as those that
  will take some cash to do so. In any event, there is no longer a free
  ride that can be assumed and if this organization is to grow to the
  level it needs to be, it needs people and funding to do so.
 
  As others have said, what is WISPA doing to sell itself? Yes, that is
an
  important mechanism of running an organization that needs contributory
  funding to work.
  For the most part, marketing, advertising, PR etc., has not been a
  strong suite for xISPs. So for this to happen, WISPA needs to step
  outside the peering ranks of WISPs and get a PR person/firm  involved
to
  drive membership and create the buzz of what WISPA is all about, what
  they are doing and what they have accomplished.
 
 
 
  Frank Muto
  President
  FSM Marketing Group, Inc.
  Co-founder - Washington Bureau for ISP Advocacy - WBIA
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:39 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?
 
 
  I know you didn't ask me, but that has never stopped me from speaking
  up.
 
  I want WISPA to spend its time and money primarily on spectrum
issues.
  I like to see the organization meet with the FCC on a regular basis,
  publish position papers, and comment on every FCC issue that impacts
  us. I'd also like to see it issue a press release on the wires every
  time it does so.
 
  Whatever size this industry actual is much larger than it is
perceived
  to be. WISPA needs to change that.
 
  -Matt
 
  Peter R. wrote:
  Chadd, Lonnie, and the rest,
 
  It is obviously a sales issue: No one has sold you on the value of
  WISPA.
 
  Or WISPA is not solving some pain you have.
 
  How about you tell us what would be good value?
  What specifically are you looking for the organization to do for
you?
 
  This is a good time (pre-election).
 
  - Peter
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread RickG

LOL, you'd have to pay me! -RickG

On 5/18/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Now that's something even I could afford!  ;-)


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message -
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?


I wanted to make the dues $1 per year per customer.
 Marlon
 (509) 982-2181   (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)
 Consulting services
 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since
 1999!
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
 www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



 - Original Message -
 From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:47 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?


 One thing of interest that COMPTEL does is charge a different membership
 fee based upon the revenue of the member. In other words, companies with
 more revenue pay higher membership fees.

 -Matt

 Frank Muto wrote:
 That is going to take a whole lot of $25 a month membership dues. I
 highly suggest contacting COMPTEL and get some mentoring on what it will
 take to get WISPA to the level that Matt has described here. I would be
 happy to team up some potential people to talk to over there. COMPTEL
 has been a good friend of the WBIA and helped us a great deal in our
 beginning.

 It is all going to take funding. I would highly recommend a strong
 membership drive starting with next weeks ISPCON and any other industry
 conference WISP related. WISPs themselves need to understand, that their
 $25 monthly contributions are an INVESTMENT for their FUTURE and also
 provides them a contributory voice within the organization. I would also
 hit up the vendors of the products and services all WISPs use. Without
 WISPs and their growing numbers, they will limit they own sales
 channels.

 There are plenty of no-to-low cost things to do as well as those that
 will take some cash to do so. In any event, there is no longer a free
 ride that can be assumed and if this organization is to grow to the
 level it needs to be, it needs people and funding to do so.

 As others have said, what is WISPA doing to sell itself? Yes, that is an
 important mechanism of running an organization that needs contributory
 funding to work.
 For the most part, marketing, advertising, PR etc., has not been a
 strong suite for xISPs. So for this to happen, WISPA needs to step
 outside the peering ranks of WISPs and get a PR person/firm  involved to
 drive membership and create the buzz of what WISPA is all about, what
 they are doing and what they have accomplished.



 Frank Muto
 President
 FSM Marketing Group, Inc.
 Co-founder - Washington Bureau for ISP Advocacy - WBIA








 - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:39 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?


 I know you didn't ask me, but that has never stopped me from speaking
 up.

 I want WISPA to spend its time and money primarily on spectrum issues.
 I like to see the organization meet with the FCC on a regular basis,
 publish position papers, and comment on every FCC issue that impacts
 us. I'd also like to see it issue a press release on the wires every
 time it does so.

 Whatever size this industry actual is much larger than it is perceived
 to be. WISPA needs to change that.

 -Matt

 Peter R. wrote:
 Chadd, Lonnie, and the rest,

 It is obviously a sales issue: No one has sold you on the value of
 WISPA.

 Or WISPA is not solving some pain you have.

 How about you tell us what would be good value?
 What specifically are you looking for the organization to do for you?

 This is a good time (pre-election).

 - Peter


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RE: [WISPA] Signal opinions

2007-05-18 Thread Mark McElvy
Client is a CPQ-19, 200mw/19db
It is mounted on a 45 foot mast. If it was obstructions would I not see
it at the client end as well?
I was kinda thinking #4, I need to go through all of the clients to
compare the different signals.

Mark McElvy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Signal opinions

Mark,

For starters, this can be due to:

1. Lower transmit power on CPE radio compared to AP radio (the CPE 
transmitter may be bad or the CPE may just have a lower rated power 
output than the AP transmitter)

2. Too-low CPE antenna gain (use as high a gain as the FCC and the 
homeowner and the antenna mounting facilities allow)

3. Obstructions at or near the CPE end (you may need to raise the 
antenna higher)

4. Low sensitivity on AP receiver (does this disparity happen on all 
clients or on just one client?)


jack



Mark McElvy wrote:
 I run Mikrotik AP's, 15db 120 sectors, WLM54G radios, running Tranzeo
 CPQ radios. I have noticed on one sector specifically but not positive
 about the others, that the CPQ can see the AP with a -75 and the AP
will
 see the client a -90. I don't understand the disparity between the
 radios. 
 
  
 
 Mark McElvy
 
 
 
  
 

-- 
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com


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Re: [WISPA] Re: Waltonville (third time's the charm)

2007-05-18 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

LOL

Google is sometimes very helpful.

I love the Blues Brothers!  I knew just what I wanted but couldn't remember 
the exact quote.  Took all of 30 seconds to find it.


Now if only a nice CALEA solution was that fast :-)

How have you been stranger?  I tried calling a couple of times but only got 
voice jail.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Lakeland [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:37 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Re: Waltonville (third time's the charm)



You sir have too much time on your hands.
:-)
-B-


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 writes:
I'm sorry! No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. 
I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the 
cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. 
There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I 
SWEAR TO GOD. I'm even built like Jake!  hehehehee For those that don't 
get it:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080455/quotes Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: 
JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the 
charm)]
Dangit Marlon - I thought you were going to take care of this ! If your 
performance and timeliness doesn't improve immediately, I'll have you in 
Idaho pickin potatoes ! JohnnyO

- Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the 
charm)]
Why wasn't this done yesterday? I asked that it be done then. The 
people

of Waltonville deserve better than three days of bad service.
Scriv David E. Smith wrote:

Apparently, we will have to run new Ethernet cable at the Waltonville
tower, as we've now replaced basically everything else there and the
AP is still doing weird freaky stuff. yay. Tell Ron I'm sorry, then 
clear his morning schedule. dave



 -
--- 




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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, NY 11741
800-479-9195
631-286-8873 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell
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[WISPA] Re: Waltonville (third time's the charm)

2007-05-18 Thread Lakeland
Been too busy.  I have no life. 

My Calea solution is a snap. Set the whole system up on a crappy removal 
hard drive that doesn't store data. When the feds show up, pull the hard 
drive and give it to them. 

When they complain tell them it worked when you gave it to them! The feds 
love semantics. :-) 

There is not enough money to be made as a WISP (a few excluded) to be 
bothered with all that nonsense IMHO. I know its the law but so is illegal 
immigration. Sheesh...I have over 40,000 illegal aliens within 25 miles of 
my office doing work off the books and the federal government isn't doing 
anything about them. 

I'm off to my next job. 

Later... 

-B- 



Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 writes: 

LOL 

Google is sometimes very helpful. 

I love the Blues Brothers!  I knew just what I wanted but couldn't 
remember the exact quote.  Took all of 30 seconds to find it. 

Now if only a nice CALEA solution was that fast :-) 

How have you been stranger?  I tried calling a couple of times but only 
got voice jail.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam 

 


- Original Message - From: Lakeland [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:37 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Re: Waltonville (third time's the charm) 




You sir have too much time on your hands.
:-)
-B- 



Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 writes:
I'm sorry! No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat 
tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back 
from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole 
my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY 
FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD. I'm even built like Jake!  hehehehee For those 
that don't get it:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080455/quotes Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: 
JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the 
charm)]
Dangit Marlon - I thought you were going to take care of this ! If your 
performance and timeliness doesn't improve immediately, I'll have you 
in Idaho pickin potatoes ! JohnnyO

- Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the 
charm)]
Why wasn't this done yesterday? I asked that it be done then. The 
people

of Waltonville deserve better than three days of bad service.
Scriv David E. Smith wrote:

Apparently, we will have to run new Ethernet cable at the Waltonville
tower, as we've now replaced basically everything else there and the
AP is still doing weird freaky stuff. yay. Tell Ron I'm sorry, then 
clear his morning schedule. dave


--- 
--
---  




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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, NY 11741
800-479-9195
631-286-8873 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell
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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, NY 11741
800-479-9195
631-286-8873 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell 


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RE: [WISPA] Re: Waltonville (third time's the charm)

2007-05-18 Thread Jeff Broadwick
That's a great line, but I've always liked this one better:

Elwood: It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of
cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
Jake: Hit it.  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 1:57 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: Waltonville (third time's the charm)

LOL

Google is sometimes very helpful.

I love the Blues Brothers!  I knew just what I wanted but couldn't remember
the exact quote.  Took all of 30 seconds to find it.

Now if only a nice CALEA solution was that fast :-)

How have you been stranger?  I tried calling a couple of times but only got
voice jail.
Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Lakeland [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:37 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Re: Waltonville (third time's the charm)


 You sir have too much time on your hands.
 :-)
 -B-


 Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 writes:
 I'm sorry! No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire.

 I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the

 cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. 
 There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I

 SWEAR TO GOD. I'm even built like Jake!  hehehehee For those that don't 
 get it:
 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080455/quotes Marlon
 (509) 982-2181
 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
 1999!
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
 www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: 
 JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:53 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the 
 charm)]
 Dangit Marlon - I thought you were going to take care of this ! If your 
 performance and timeliness doesn't improve immediately, I'll have you in

 Idaho pickin potatoes ! JohnnyO
 - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:24 AM
 Subject: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the 
 charm)]
 Why wasn't this done yesterday? I asked that it be done then. The 
 people
 of Waltonville deserve better than three days of bad service.
 Scriv David E. Smith wrote:
 Apparently, we will have to run new Ethernet cable at the Waltonville
 tower, as we've now replaced basically everything else there and the
 AP is still doing weird freaky stuff. yay. Tell Ron I'm sorry, then 
 clear his morning schedule. dave


-
 --- 


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 Bob Moldashel
 Lakeland Communications, Inc.
 1350 Lincoln Avenue
 Holbrook, NY 11741
 800-479-9195
 631-286-8873 Fax
 516-551-1131 Cell
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Re: [WISPA] Raising the Broadband definition

2007-05-18 Thread Matt

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070517-house-dems-broadband-isnt-broadband-unless-its-2-mbps.html


Does that mean if we do not offer services of 2mbps or above we do not
have to be Calea compliant?  Great!

Matt
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Re: [WISPA] Signal opinions

2007-05-18 Thread Jack Unger

Mark,

Obstructions may or may not have the same impact on transmitted and 
received signals. Obstructions near the CPE can sometimes have a bigger 
impact on your CPE transmit signals than on the incoming signal from the 
AP.


Yeah, if all the signals incoming to the AP are low then you have an AP 
or an AP antenna system problem.


jack


Mark McElvy wrote:

Client is a CPQ-19, 200mw/19db
It is mounted on a 45 foot mast. If it was obstructions would I not see
it at the client end as well?
I was kinda thinking #4, I need to go through all of the clients to
compare the different signals.

Mark McElvy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Signal opinions

Mark,

For starters, this can be due to:

1. Lower transmit power on CPE radio compared to AP radio (the CPE 
transmitter may be bad or the CPE may just have a lower rated power 
output than the AP transmitter)


2. Too-low CPE antenna gain (use as high a gain as the FCC and the 
homeowner and the antenna mounting facilities allow)


3. Obstructions at or near the CPE end (you may need to raise the 
antenna higher)


4. Low sensitivity on AP receiver (does this disparity happen on all 
clients or on just one client?)



jack



Mark McElvy wrote:

I run Mikrotik AP's, 15db 120 sectors, WLM54G radios, running Tranzeo
CPQ radios. I have noticed on one sector specifically but not positive
about the others, that the CPQ can see the AP with a -75 and the AP

will

see the client a -90. I don't understand the disparity between the
radios. 

 


Mark McElvy



 





--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com


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Re: [WISPA] Raising the Broadband definition

2007-05-18 Thread Jack Unger

Yep


Matt wrote:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070517-house-dems-broadband-isnt-broadband-unless-its-2-mbps.html 



Does that mean if we do not offer services of 2mbps or above we do not
have to be Calea compliant?  Great!

Matt


--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com


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Re: [WISPA] Raising the Broadband definition

2007-05-18 Thread Peter R.

Matt wrote:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070517-house-dems-broadband-isnt-broadband-unless-its-2-mbps.html 




Does that mean if we do not offer services of 2mbps or above we do not
have to be Calea compliant?  Great!

Matt


Only if it passes into law.
Otherwise the standing FCC definition is 200k minimum in one direction.

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[WISPA] NTIA?

2007-05-18 Thread Peter R.

Doesn't this sound like a mini FCC?
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/aboutntia/aboutntia.htm

About the NTIA 

The 
National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) is the 
President's principal adviser on telecommunications and information policy 
issues, and in this role frequently works with other Executive Branch agencies 
to develop and present the Administration's position on these issues. 



Since its creation in 1978, NTIA has been at the cutting edge of 
critical issues. 

In addition to representing the Executive Branch in 
both domestic and international telecommunications and information policy 
activities, NTIA also manages the Federal use of spectrum; performs cutting-edge 
telecommunications research and engineering, including resolving technical 
telecommunications issues for the Federal government and private sector; and 
administers infrastructure and public telecommunications facilities grants. 



The telecommunications and information revolution is bringing dramatic 
growth and change to the nation's economic, social, and political life. As a 
result, our fundamental mission is to promote market-based policies which lower 
prices to consumers and encourage innovation, while harnessing the resources of 
the Federal government to support spectrum-based technologies which enhance 
efficiency and productivity. 

*NTIA Line Offices 


*
The *Office of Spectrum 
Management http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/osmhome.html* (OSM) formulates and establishes plans and policies that 
ensure the effective, efficient, and equitable use of the spectrum both 
nationally and internationally. Through the development of long range spectrum 
plans, the OSM is prepared to address future Federal government spectrum 
requirements, including public safety operations and the coordination and 
registration of Federal government satellite networks. The OSM also satisfies 
the frequency assignment needs of the Federal agencies and provides spectrum 
certification for new Federal agency radio communication systems. 

The 
*Office of 
Policy Analysis and Development http://www.ntia.doc.gov/opadhome/opadhome.html* (OPAD) is the domestic policy 
division of the NTIA. OPAD supports NTIA's role as principal adviser to the 
Executive Branch and the Secretary of Commerce on telecommunications and 
information policies by conducting research and analysis and preparing policy 
recommendations. The domestic policy office generates policies that promote 
innovation, competition, and economic growth for the benefit of American 
businesses and consumers. 

The *Office of 
International Affairs* http://www.ntia.doc.gov/oiahome/oiahome.html (OIA) develops and implements policies to 
enhance U.S. companies' ability to compete globally in the information 
technology and communications (ICT) sectors. In consultation with other U.S. 
agencies and the U.S. private sector, OIA participates in international and 
regional fora to promote policies that open ICT markets and encourage 
competition. 

The *Institute 
for Telecommunication Sciences* http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/ (ITS) is the research and 
engineering laboratory of the NTIA. ITS provides technical support to NTIA in 
advancing telecommunications and information infrastructure development, 
enhancing domestic competition, improving U.S. telecommunications trade 
opportunities, and promoting more efficient and effective use of the radio 
spectrum. ITS also serves as a principal Federal resource for investigating the 
telecommunications challenges of other Federal agencies, state and local 
governments, private corporations and associations, and international 
organizations. 

The *Office of 
Telecommunications and Information Applications* http://www.ntia.doc.gov/otiahome/otiahome.html (OTIA) administers 
two programs: the /*Technology 
Opportunities Program*/ http://www.ntia.doc.gov/top (TOP) and the /*Public Telecommunications Facilities 
Program http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ptfp*/ (PTFP). From 1994 to 2004, TOP provided matching 
grants to non-profit organizations and state and local governments across the 
United States to demonstrate innovative applications of advanced 
telecommunications and information technology. PTFP awards grants to public 
broadcasting and other noncommercial entities for the purchase of 
telecommunications equipment. 


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Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Scott Lambert
On Fri, May 18, 2007 at 10:17:22AM -0700, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 
wrote:
 I wanted to make the dues $1 per year per customer.

Now, is that $1 per wireless customer, or per customer in general?  I
work for an old style ISP who has several thousand customers but only a
few hundred of them are wireless.

I just joined the lists to see if WISPA is something we need to be
involved in.

-- 
Scott LambertKC5MLE   Unix SysAdmin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [WISPA] NTIA?

2007-05-18 Thread Mike Hammett
IIRC, the NTIA is the Federal Government's FCC.  The FCC is for non-federal 
government.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 2:14 PM
Subject: [WISPA] NTIA?



Doesn't this sound like a mini FCC?
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/aboutntia/aboutntia.htm

About the NTIA
The National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) is 
the President's principal adviser on telecommunications and information 
policy issues, and in this role frequently works with other Executive 
Branch agencies to develop and present the Administration's position on 
these issues.


Since its creation in 1978, NTIA has been at the cutting edge of critical 
issues.
In addition to representing the Executive Branch in both domestic and 
international telecommunications and information policy activities, NTIA 
also manages the Federal use of spectrum; performs cutting-edge 
telecommunications research and engineering, including resolving technical 
telecommunications issues for the Federal government and private sector; 
and administers infrastructure and public telecommunications facilities 
grants.


The telecommunications and information revolution is bringing dramatic 
growth and change to the nation's economic, social, and political life. As 
a result, our fundamental mission is to promote market-based policies 
which lower prices to consumers and encourage innovation, while harnessing 
the resources of the Federal government to support spectrum-based 
technologies which enhance efficiency and productivity.

*NTIA Line Offices
*
The *Office of Spectrum Management 
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/osmhome.html* (OSM) formulates and 
establishes plans and policies that ensure the effective, efficient, and 
equitable use of the spectrum both nationally and internationally. Through 
the development of long range spectrum plans, the OSM is prepared to 
address future Federal government spectrum requirements, including public 
safety operations and the coordination and registration of Federal 
government satellite networks. The OSM also satisfies the frequency 
assignment needs of the Federal agencies and provides spectrum 
certification for new Federal agency radio communication systems.
The *Office of Policy Analysis and Development 
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/opadhome/opadhome.html* (OPAD) is the domestic 
policy division of the NTIA. OPAD supports NTIA's role as principal 
adviser to the Executive Branch and the Secretary of Commerce on 
telecommunications and information policies by conducting research and 
analysis and preparing policy recommendations. The domestic policy office 
generates policies that promote innovation, competition, and economic 
growth for the benefit of American businesses and consumers.
The *Office of International Affairs* 
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/oiahome/oiahome.html (OIA) develops and 
implements policies to enhance U.S. companies' ability to compete globally 
in the information technology and communications (ICT) sectors. In 
consultation with other U.S. agencies and the U.S. private sector, OIA 
participates in international and regional fora to promote policies that 
open ICT markets and encourage competition.
The *Institute for Telecommunication Sciences* 
http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/ (ITS) is the research and engineering 
laboratory of the NTIA. ITS provides technical support to NTIA in 
advancing telecommunications and information infrastructure development, 
enhancing domestic competition, improving U.S. telecommunications trade 
opportunities, and promoting more efficient and effective use of the radio 
spectrum. ITS also serves as a principal Federal resource for 
investigating the telecommunications challenges of other Federal agencies, 
state and local governments, private corporations and associations, and 
international organizations.
The *Office of Telecommunications and Information Applications* 
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/otiahome/otiahome.html (OTIA) administers two 
programs: the /*Technology Opportunities Program*/ 
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/top (TOP) and the /*Public Telecommunications 
Facilities Program http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ptfp*/ (PTFP). From 1994 to 
2004, TOP provided matching grants to non-profit organizations and state 
and local governments across the United States to demonstrate innovative 
applications of advanced telecommunications and information technology. 
PTFP awards grants to public broadcasting and other noncommercial entities 
for the purchase of telecommunications equipment.

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RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

2007-05-18 Thread Mac Dearman
See in line please


 Behalf of Jack Unger
 
 Mac,
 
 Before you discard the idea of using three 120* sectors are you
 absolutely certain that the separation issue is really due to the
 antennas not being far enough apart? Have you thoroughly looked at other
 reasons why there could be interference between three APs like:

 
[Mac says:] 

Well Jack - I'd like to think that I have exhausted the other possibilities
:-) but I am always willing to listen.

 
 1. Using three cards on a single motherboard in one enclosure without
 sufficient shielding between them.


[Mac says:] 

 All of our sector arrays utilize 3 different enclosures with one radio to
the enclosure and then I try to separate the enclosures (and antennas) as
far as possible.

 
 2. Using three APs that are configured on frequencies that are too close
 together and are interfering with each other?
  
 [Mac says:] 

 Unless we deploy 4 90* sectors we use non overlapping channels (1, 6  11)


 
 I guess what I'm asking is (before you go spend money on antennas that
 may or may not solve the problem) what equipment are you currently
 using, how is it configured, and how far apart can you actually get
 three sector antennas on the 25G tower?
 
 jack

[Mac says:] 


 I have come to the conclusion that it is interference from the backplane of
the antennas due to not having adequate separation from each other. These
small towers (although 180') like Rohn 25G aren't but 12 across - so you
wind up with the 3 sectors only 1' apart at their bases. 

I wish you had some more ideas :-), but thanks for the thought and the time!

Mac





 


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Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

Would have been per wireless sub.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Scott Lambert [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?


On Fri, May 18, 2007 at 10:17:22AM -0700, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 
wrote:

I wanted to make the dues $1 per year per customer.


Now, is that $1 per wireless customer, or per customer in general?  I
work for an old style ISP who has several thousand customers but only a
few hundred of them are wireless.

I just joined the lists to see if WISPA is something we need to be
involved in.

--
Scott LambertKC5MLE   Unix 
SysAdmin

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

2007-05-18 Thread Jack Unger

Mac,

Thanks for replying to my concerns and suggestions.

Have you tried using 5 to 10 feet of vertical separation between the 
antennas rather than mounting them all at the same height? 10 feet of 
vertical separation should be enough to prevent one AP transmitter from 
overloading another AP receiver.


Secondly, single-channel bandpass filters are available which will 
provide additional receiver protection from nearby transmitters 
operating on non-overlapping frequencies.


Finally, higher-priced antennas normally have a higher front-to-back 
ratio which increases isolation (minimizes interaction) between the 
antennas. A minimum f/b ratio of 30 dBm is recommended.


Keep in mind that without dealing with these antenna isolation issues, 
you will likely have the same problems using two 180* sector antennas as 
you have had using three 120* sector antennas.


jack


Mac Dearman wrote:

See in line please



Behalf of Jack Unger

Mac,

Before you discard the idea of using three 120* sectors are you
absolutely certain that the separation issue is really due to the
antennas not being far enough apart? Have you thoroughly looked at other
reasons why there could be interference between three APs like:


 
[Mac says:] 


Well Jack - I'd like to think that I have exhausted the other possibilities
:-) but I am always willing to listen.


1. Using three cards on a single motherboard in one enclosure without
sufficient shielding between them.



[Mac says:] 


 All of our sector arrays utilize 3 different enclosures with one radio to
the enclosure and then I try to separate the enclosures (and antennas) as
far as possible.


2. Using three APs that are configured on frequencies that are too close
together and are interfering with each other?
  
 [Mac says:] 


 Unless we deploy 4 90* sectors we use non overlapping channels (1, 6  11)



I guess what I'm asking is (before you go spend money on antennas that
may or may not solve the problem) what equipment are you currently
using, how is it configured, and how far apart can you actually get
three sector antennas on the 25G tower?

jack


[Mac says:] 



 I have come to the conclusion that it is interference from the backplane of
the antennas due to not having adequate separation from each other. These
small towers (although 180') like Rohn 25G aren't but 12 across - so you
wind up with the 3 sectors only 1' apart at their bases. 


I wish you had some more ideas :-), but thanks for the thought and the time!

Mac





 





--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com


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RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

2007-05-18 Thread Mac Dearman
Inline again :-)


 Behalf Of Jack Unger
 
 Mac,
 
 Thanks for replying to my concerns and suggestions.
 
 Have you tried using 5 to 10 feet of vertical separation between the
 antennas rather than mounting them all at the same height? 10 feet of
 vertical separation should be enough to prevent one AP transmitter from
 overloading another AP receiver.


[Mac says:] 

 Now you are talking the Jack Unger talk that makes me sit up and take
notice :-) 

I have not tried the vertical separation because it looks so unprofessional
(although is a professional move) to have 3 sectors spread out over thirty
feet and it also puts 2 of my three sectors at a disadvantage due to the
height loss. We cover a lot of rugged territory, conquer (really not very
well) massive 90' Oak trees and connect subs as far as 20 miles off these
towers. It is a fine idea and one I may have to move to!

 
 Secondly, single-channel bandpass filters are available which will
 provide additional receiver protection from nearby transmitters
 operating on non-overlapping frequencies.

[Mac says:] 

That sounds like the way I will go. I appreciate the idea and suggestion. I
don't know why I haven't thought of that before. I guess I have never bought
or even had need of a bandpass filter till now. Well truth be known it seems
I have needed them for years, but didn't realize it till today.


 
 Finally, higher-priced antennas normally have a higher front-to-back
 ratio which increases isolation (minimizes interaction) between the
 antennas. A minimum f/b ratio of 30 dBm is recommended.


[Mac says:] 

 We have always bought and used PacWireless antennas and thee 16.5dbi 120*
VPOL sectors have at least a F/B ratio of 25db. I realize the more you spend
the better F/B ratio you get and that is where my original thread started -
- looking for some good sectors :-)


 
 Keep in mind that without dealing with these antenna isolation issues,
 you will likely have the same problems using two 180* sector antennas as
 you have had using three 120* sector antennas.

[ 
[Mac says:] 

 That is fine advice Jack and I appreciate the fine guidance. You have made
me think - - and that may be a dangerous thing. Now - - let me go order some
bandpass filters and hang them on one of these troubled tower to see what is
gonna happen. I will post back here and let you know my results.

Thanks again Jack!!


Mac Dearman





 
 jack
 
 
 Mac Dearman wrote:
  See in line please
 
 
  Behalf of Jack Unger
 
  Mac,
 
  Before you discard the idea of using three 120* sectors are you
  absolutely certain that the separation issue is really due to the
  antennas not being far enough apart? Have you thoroughly looked at
 other
  reasons why there could be interference between three APs like:
 
 
  [Mac says:]
 
  Well Jack - I'd like to think that I have exhausted the other
 possibilities
  :-) but I am always willing to listen.
 
  1. Using three cards on a single motherboard in one enclosure without
  sufficient shielding between them.
 
 
  [Mac says:]
 
   All of our sector arrays utilize 3 different enclosures with one radio
 to
  the enclosure and then I try to separate the enclosures (and antennas)
 as
  far as possible.
 
  2. Using three APs that are configured on frequencies that are too
 close
  together and are interfering with each other?
 
   [Mac says:]
 
   Unless we deploy 4 90* sectors we use non overlapping channels (1, 6 
 11)
 
 
  I guess what I'm asking is (before you go spend money on antennas that
  may or may not solve the problem) what equipment are you currently
  using, how is it configured, and how far apart can you actually get
  three sector antennas on the 25G tower?
 
  jack
 
  [Mac says:]
 
 
   I have come to the conclusion that it is interference from the
 backplane of
  the antennas due to not having adequate separation from each other.
 These
  small towers (although 180') like Rohn 25G aren't but 12 across - so
 you
  wind up with the 3 sectors only 1' apart at their bases.
 
  I wish you had some more ideas :-), but thanks for the thought and the
 time!
 
  Mac
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 FCC License # PG-12-25133
 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
 True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
 FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers
 Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com
 
 
 --
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
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RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

2007-05-18 Thread Smith, Rick
I'll take one!  How much ? 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Harnish
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 4:25 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

Jack,

While we are on this topic, look at the .pdf file and give me your
comments on this all in one sector from Pac Wireless?


Thanks,

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482
Founding Member of WISPA

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 4:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

Mac,

Thanks for replying to my concerns and suggestions.

Have you tried using 5 to 10 feet of vertical separation between the
antennas rather than mounting them all at the same height? 10 feet of
vertical separation should be enough to prevent one AP transmitter from
overloading another AP receiver.

Secondly, single-channel bandpass filters are available which will
provide additional receiver protection from nearby transmitters
operating on non-overlapping frequencies.

Finally, higher-priced antennas normally have a higher front-to-back
ratio which increases isolation (minimizes interaction) between the
antennas. A minimum f/b ratio of 30 dBm is recommended.

Keep in mind that without dealing with these antenna isolation issues,
you will likely have the same problems using two 180* sector antennas as
you have had using three 120* sector antennas.

jack


Mac Dearman wrote:
 See in line please
 
 
 Behalf of Jack Unger

 Mac,

 Before you discard the idea of using three 120* sectors are you 
 absolutely certain that the separation issue is really due to the 
 antennas not being far enough apart? Have you thoroughly looked at 
 other reasons why there could be interference between three APs like:
 
  
 [Mac says:]
 
 Well Jack - I'd like to think that I have exhausted the other
possibilities
 :-) but I am always willing to listen.
 
 1. Using three cards on a single motherboard in one enclosure without

 sufficient shielding between them.
 
 
 [Mac says:]
 
  All of our sector arrays utilize 3 different enclosures with one 
 radio to the enclosure and then I try to separate the enclosures (and 
 antennas) as far as possible.
 
 2. Using three APs that are configured on frequencies that are too 
 close together and are interfering with each other?
   
  [Mac says:]
 
  Unless we deploy 4 90* sectors we use non overlapping channels (1, 6 
 
11)
 
 
 I guess what I'm asking is (before you go spend money on antennas 
 that may or may not solve the problem) what equipment are you 
 currently using, how is it configured, and how far apart can you 
 actually get three sector antennas on the 25G tower?

 jack
 
 [Mac says:]
 
 
  I have come to the conclusion that it is interference from the 
 backplane
of
 the antennas due to not having adequate separation from each other. 
 These small towers (although 180') like Rohn 25G aren't but 12 across

 - so you wind up with the 3 sectors only 1' apart at their bases.
 
 I wish you had some more ideas :-), but thanks for the thought and the
time!
 
 Mac
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 

--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP
Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone
(VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com


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RE: [WISPA] NTIA?

2007-05-18 Thread Patrick Leary
The NTIA controls those frequencies used by the feds, including the
military. It wields considerable power in protecting those frequencies
and has the dominant position versus the FCC. As well, the NTIA does
considerable work on the international front, where it works to protect
the U.S. militaries use of certain frequencies. For example, when it
comes to working within the ITU, it is the NTIA that takes the lead, not
the FCC. 

A specific example of how this has effected the WISP/unlicensed
community is 5.4 GHz, where the DoD objections led the NTIA to force the
FCC and industry to re-address the DFS issue until the DoD was happy. As
you know, this stalled use of the allocation for about 3 years now and
has only recently been finally resolved.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] NTIA?

Doesn't this sound like a mini FCC?
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/aboutntia/aboutntia.htm

About the NTIA 

The 
National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) is the

President's principal adviser on telecommunications and information
policy 
issues, and in this role frequently works with other Executive Branch
agencies 
to develop and present the Administration's position on these issues. 


Since its creation in 1978, NTIA has been at the cutting edge of 
critical issues. 

In addition to representing the Executive Branch in 
both domestic and international telecommunications and information
policy 
activities, NTIA also manages the Federal use of spectrum; performs
cutting-edge 
telecommunications research and engineering, including resolving
technical 
telecommunications issues for the Federal government and private sector;
and 
administers infrastructure and public telecommunications facilities
grants. 


The telecommunications and information revolution is bringing dramatic 
growth and change to the nation's economic, social, and political life.
As a 
result, our fundamental mission is to promote market-based policies
which lower 
prices to consumers and encourage innovation, while harnessing the
resources of 
the Federal government to support spectrum-based technologies which
enhance 
efficiency and productivity. 

*NTIA Line Offices 

*
The *Office of Spectrum 
Management http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/osmhome.html* (OSM)
formulates and establishes plans and policies that 
ensure the effective, efficient, and equitable use of the spectrum both 
nationally and internationally. Through the development of long range
spectrum 
plans, the OSM is prepared to address future Federal government spectrum

requirements, including public safety operations and the coordination
and 
registration of Federal government satellite networks. The OSM also
satisfies 
the frequency assignment needs of the Federal agencies and provides
spectrum 
certification for new Federal agency radio communication systems. 

The 
*Office of 
Policy Analysis and Development
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/opadhome/opadhome.html* (OPAD) is the domestic
policy 
division of the NTIA. OPAD supports NTIA's role as principal adviser to
the 
Executive Branch and the Secretary of Commerce on telecommunications and

information policies by conducting research and analysis and preparing
policy 
recommendations. The domestic policy office generates policies that
promote 
innovation, competition, and economic growth for the benefit of American

businesses and consumers. 

The *Office of 
International Affairs* http://www.ntia.doc.gov/oiahome/oiahome.html
(OIA) develops and implements policies to 
enhance U.S. companies' ability to compete globally in the information 
technology and communications (ICT) sectors. In consultation with other
U.S. 
agencies and the U.S. private sector, OIA participates in international
and 
regional fora to promote policies that open ICT markets and encourage 
competition. 

The *Institute 
for Telecommunication Sciences* http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/ (ITS) is
the research and 
engineering laboratory of the NTIA. ITS provides technical support to
NTIA in 
advancing telecommunications and information infrastructure development,

enhancing domestic competition, improving U.S. telecommunications trade 
opportunities, and promoting more efficient and effective use of the
radio 
spectrum. ITS also serves as a principal Federal resource for
investigating the 
telecommunications challenges of other Federal agencies, state and local

governments, private corporations and associations, and international 
organizations. 

The *Office of 
Telecommunications and Information Applications*
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/otiahome/otiahome.html (OTIA) administers 
two programs: the /*Technology 
Opportunities Program*/ http://www.ntia.doc.gov/top (TOP) and the
/*Public Telecommunications 

[WISPA] Routerboard 532 Speeds

2007-05-18 Thread Dennis Burgess

I wanted to post a message to make sure everyone understands a post that I
made a while back on the speed of the 532s.

First, I want to make sure that I say, that I CURRENTLY use Routerboard 532s
on ALL my towers.  I use it as all of the APs on my wireless network, and I
use MT for 99% of my consulting customers router needs.  I think that
Mikrotik is a great product, heck, I even certified in the product, use it
every day for WISP and network operations!

With that said, I had stated that the thoughput of a 532 is around 20-25
meg.  I want to clarify that it is MY EXPERIENCE that a 532 running as a
CORE router, such as doing NAT, connection tracking, having simple queues,
SFQ queueing, OSPF, ya name, it, the speed I have seen the processor at that
point at 100% would be around 20meg BOTH WAYS, this does not account for
wireless cards, just ETHERNET to ETHERNET!   So, on the 266mhz processors,
about 20 meg both ways, and around 25 meg for the new 400mhz boards.It
has NOTHING to do with wireless connectivity, just pure processing power
doing tones of tasks.

Now with that said, with two workstaitons 3 foot of ethernet between them,
and a 532 Rev5 with the 400mhz processor, one way I can do a FTP Transfer at
92 meg, and I see 2-3 meg going the other way.This is ONE connection,
not a bunch, this is STRIGHT routing, no OSPF, no NAT, with connection
tracking turned on.  I also use TCP packets vs UDP, this 92meg/2meg would be
very close to the limit of two 10/100 nics.

I just wanted to clarify this, as many of my customers have asked me what is
a good limit to start looking at puttting in something a bit bigger as they
have grown.  My opinion, depends on what you are doing with the MT, but a
total thoughput of around 50meg is a good starting point, depending on how
many features you are using on the MT, i.e. NAT, OSFP, etc.

Now, looking at that, if you are moving more than 20 meg both ways on your
network, doing it using a $200 router sounds awsome to me!   Not to menton
all of the other features you have!  I don't doubt, that if you put up a
wireless link and test with it, you can see much higher 50+ meg thoughput,
depending on what the router is doing.  In my case, we are looking at
customers that use their 532 as a do everything router.

If you have any thoughts, comments or questions, or if you have some real
world experience, with NOTHING on, or only a few things on, be sure to post,
i'm sure that many users will enjoy reading your findings.

--
Dennis Burgess, MCP, CCNA, A+, N+, Mikrotik Certified Consultant
www.mikrotikconsulting.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

2007-05-18 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181


- Original Message - 
From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 2:01 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices



Inline again :-)



Behalf Of Jack Unger

Mac,

Thanks for replying to my concerns and suggestions.

Have you tried using 5 to 10 feet of vertical separation between the
antennas rather than mounting them all at the same height? 10 feet of
vertical separation should be enough to prevent one AP transmitter from
overloading another AP receiver.



[Mac says:]

Now you are talking the Jack Unger talk that makes me sit up and take
notice :-)

I have not tried the vertical separation because it looks so 
unprofessional

(although is a professional move) to have 3 sectors spread out over thirty
feet and it also puts 2 of my three sectors at a disadvantage due to the
height loss. We cover a lot of rugged territory, conquer (really not very
well) massive 90' Oak trees and connect subs as far as 20 miles off these
towers. It is a fine idea and one I may have to move to!


I've got some that are within a few feet of each other.  Also have some that 
are RIGHT behind others.


We're having some problems at that site that sure act like interference. 
I'm pretty sure at least some of it is self inflicted.  How much there's no 
good way to tell.  They are all the higher end Maxrad sectors.


I'm going to get long lmr600 runs (50/40 and 30') and make sure that the 
radios are all down at the ground where I can get to them with a ladder, and 
I'll make sure that the antennas are all 10' or more apart.


We're going to rebuild two sites in this manner.





Secondly, single-channel bandpass filters are available which will
provide additional receiver protection from nearby transmitters
operating on non-overlapping frequencies.


[Mac says:]

That sounds like the way I will go. I appreciate the idea and suggestion. 
I
don't know why I haven't thought of that before. I guess I have never 
bought
or even had need of a bandpass filter till now. Well truth be known it 
seems

I have needed them for years, but didn't realize it till today.


I don't use bandpass filters.  I have to change channels far too often for 
that.  I'm finding that some radios are far more effective in their 
isolation than others are.  I'd also rather use antennas for my isolation 
than having another device I have to worry about inline.







Finally, higher-priced antennas normally have a higher front-to-back
ratio which increases isolation (minimizes interaction) between the
antennas. A minimum f/b ratio of 30 dBm is recommended.



[Mac says:]

We have always bought and used PacWireless antennas and thee 16.5dbi 120*
VPOL sectors have at least a F/B ratio of 25db. I realize the more you 
spend
the better F/B ratio you get and that is where my original thread 
started -

- looking for some good sectors :-)


TilTek was brought up.  Those are good.  So are radio waves.  I've been 
REALLY happy with the vpol ($425ish) and hpol ($250ish) Maxrad adjustable 
beam sectors.  I like the flexibility for the future too.


marlon







Keep in mind that without dealing with these antenna isolation issues,
you will likely have the same problems using two 180* sector antennas as
you have had using three 120* sector antennas.


[
[Mac says:]

That is fine advice Jack and I appreciate the fine guidance. You have made
me think - - and that may be a dangerous thing. Now - - let me go order 
some
bandpass filters and hang them on one of these troubled tower to see what 
is

gonna happen. I will post back here and let you know my results.

Thanks again Jack!!


Mac Dearman







jack


Mac Dearman wrote:
 See in line please


 Behalf of Jack Unger

 Mac,

 Before you discard the idea of using three 120* sectors are you
 absolutely certain that the separation issue is really due to the
 antennas not being far enough apart? Have you thoroughly looked at
other
 reasons why there could be interference between three APs like:


 [Mac says:]

 Well Jack - I'd like to think that I have exhausted the other
possibilities
 :-) but I am always willing to listen.

 1. Using three cards on a single motherboard in one enclosure without
 sufficient shielding between them.


 [Mac says:]

  All of our sector arrays utilize 3 different enclosures with one radio
to
 the enclosure and then I try to separate the enclosures (and antennas)
as
 far as possible.

 2. Using three APs that are configured on frequencies that are too
close
 together and are interfering with each other?

  [Mac says:]

  Unless we deploy 4 90* sectors we use non overlapping channels (1, 6 
11)


 I guess what I'm asking is (before you go spend money on antennas that
 may or may not solve the problem) what equipment are you currently
 using, how is it configured, and how far apart can you actually get
 three sector antennas on the 25G tower?

 jack

 [Mac says:]


  I have come to the conclusion that it is interference 

Re: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

2007-05-18 Thread Jack Unger

Rick,

Here's what I see that's good about the Pac Wireless antenna:

1. The 3-in-1 design may be the only solution where only one 
antenna-mounting space exists on a tower.


2. The inclusion of electrical downtilt will minimize overshooting 
customers.


3. The inclusion of null fill will minimize connectivity problems with 
customers located very close to the tower.


4. The 15 dBi gain is in the appropriate and usable range.

5. The weight (14 lbs) will make the antenna easy to raise and mount.

6. The price range ($700) is moderate considering that you're really 
getting three sector antennas in one.


Here's what I see that will need special consideration and planning.

1. The front-to-back ratio is only 15 dB. This is low compared to the 30 
dB that I usually recommend for high-quality antennas.


2. The sector-to-sector isolation is 35 dB. When compared to the 83 dB 
of isolation that 10 feet of vertical separation would provide, 35 dB is 
a lot less.


In summary, this appears to be a good antenna system with the one 
limitation that the somewhat low f/b ratio and sector-to-sector 
isolation will combine to place the burden for good AP-to-AP isolation 
on the quality of the co-located access point receivers and the quality 
of the overall AP/site design. Receivers with poor or moderate 
selectivity (in other words, receivers on Wi-Fi cards) will be 
overloaded by the other AP transmitters with the result being a 
throughput reduction that begins when traffic levels increase. The more 
traffic, the more missed incoming packets, the more retransmissions and 
the more throughput reduction. The result will be that the site reaches 
saturation sooner and won't handle as much traffic as a site where the 
AP receivers are not being overloaded.


The solution (other than to use really expensive equipment which has 
good receiver filtering and selectivity built in) is to again use 
single-channel bandpass filters on each AP. These will reduce the level 
of signal from the co-located adjacent-channel AP transmitters and 
permit the site to handle more traffic (reach saturation later) than a 
site where the receivers ARE being overloaded.


Finally, in addition to the above, it's important not to defeat the 
antenna isolation by letting RF energy leak directly from AP to AP 
either on the ground or from PC-card to PC card. Proper shielding and 
grounding will help to maintain that hard-won receiver-to-transmitter 
isolation resulting in a high-performance, high-traffic handling, 
reliable, profitable site.


jack


Rick Harnish wrote:

Jack,

While we are on this topic, look at the .pdf file and give me your comments
on this all in one sector from Pac Wireless?


Thanks,

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482
Founding Member of WISPA

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 4:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

Mac,

Thanks for replying to my concerns and suggestions.

Have you tried using 5 to 10 feet of vertical separation between the 
antennas rather than mounting them all at the same height? 10 feet of 
vertical separation should be enough to prevent one AP transmitter from 
overloading another AP receiver.


Secondly, single-channel bandpass filters are available which will 
provide additional receiver protection from nearby transmitters 
operating on non-overlapping frequencies.


Finally, higher-priced antennas normally have a higher front-to-back 
ratio which increases isolation (minimizes interaction) between the 
antennas. A minimum f/b ratio of 30 dBm is recommended.


Keep in mind that without dealing with these antenna isolation issues, 
you will likely have the same problems using two 180* sector antennas as 
you have had using three 120* sector antennas.


jack


Mac Dearman wrote:

See in line please



Behalf of Jack Unger

Mac,

Before you discard the idea of using three 120* sectors are you
absolutely certain that the separation issue is really due to the
antennas not being far enough apart? Have you thoroughly looked at other
reasons why there could be interference between three APs like:
 
[Mac says:] 


Well Jack - I'd like to think that I have exhausted the other

possibilities

:-) but I am always willing to listen.


1. Using three cards on a single motherboard in one enclosure without
sufficient shielding between them.


[Mac says:] 


 All of our sector arrays utilize 3 different enclosures with one radio to
the enclosure and then I try to separate the enclosures (and antennas) as
far as possible.


2. Using three APs that are configured on frequencies that are too close
together and are interfering with each other?
  
 [Mac says:] 


 Unless we deploy 4 90* sectors we use non overlapping channels (1, 6 

11)



I guess what I'm asking is (before you go spend money on antennas that
may or may not solve the problem) what 

[WISPA] $25 is cheap insurance... Was: What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-18 Thread Frank Muto
- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Folks, don't join WISPA because of what WISPA can do for you.  That's not 
what WISPA is about.  Oh sure, we do what we can when we can, but the MAIN 
focus of WISPA is that of improving the OVERALL industry.  We're focused 
on better rules, better laws, better training etc.


We didn't form WISPA so that we could give you equipment discounts, free 
legal advice, insurance discounts, etc.  The day will come when those 
things are all possible, but it'll take large membership numbers to get 
there.



Now this is spot on. WISPA is an ADVOCATE for the WISP industry. It should 
never become, IMO an association buying group. Sure vendors may look at 
WISPA as a market channel and wish to support it with paid advertisements 
and sponsorships. But, unless there is enough accountable (not made up 
numbers)membership they may not care to support the organization.


As a former dialup ISP/Web-host, I know where most of you stand. I am 
supporting WISPA because I feel the WISP may be the last-stand against total 
extinction of the Independent Service Provider. Sure there is still dialup 
and some are able to provide cable/DSL broadband, but nowhere in the numbers 
we were during the dialup years. The WISP has the opportunity to create and 
maintain a viable last-mile alternative to the RBOC's and CableCo's.


One thing that WISP's have going is that are talking the FCC's language, 
RF's! They understand this better than they do the competitive tension that 
came with the 96 Telco Act. The WISP's having an Advocate such as WISPA is 
very welcome in D.C. and that is why these baby step meetings and working 
the CALEA issue is so, so very important that WISPA has the FULL SUPPORT of 
the Industry.


Paying $25 a month to get a voice at the table of those that can SHUT you 
down, rather quickly, is cheap insurance of that possibly happening.




Frank Muto
President
FSM Marketing Group, Inc
www.SecureEmailPlus.com

ISPCON Spring 2007
May 23-25 in Orlando, FL.
LaunchPad Pavilion J










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[WISPA] Re: Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread Justin Wilson
I am glad it's a flat rate.  I don't think the big guys should be penalized for 
being successful.  

Justin


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RE: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

2007-05-18 Thread Mac Dearman
That's a lot of sugar for less than a dollar Jack.

I'd be willing to pay for that info! (Or buy you a round - or both)

Thanks,
Mac 




 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Jack Unger
 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 5:33 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 180* sector choices
 
 Rick,
 
 Here's what I see that's good about the Pac Wireless antenna:
 
 1. The 3-in-1 design may be the only solution where only one
 antenna-mounting space exists on a tower.
 
 2. The inclusion of electrical downtilt will minimize overshooting
 customers.
 
 3. The inclusion of null fill will minimize connectivity problems with
 customers located very close to the tower.
 
 4. The 15 dBi gain is in the appropriate and usable range.
 
 5. The weight (14 lbs) will make the antenna easy to raise and mount.
 
 6. The price range ($700) is moderate considering that you're really
 getting three sector antennas in one.
 
 Here's what I see that will need special consideration and planning.
 
 1. The front-to-back ratio is only 15 dB. This is low compared to the 30
 dB that I usually recommend for high-quality antennas.
 
 2. The sector-to-sector isolation is 35 dB. When compared to the 83 dB
 of isolation that 10 feet of vertical separation would provide, 35 dB is
 a lot less.
 
 In summary, this appears to be a good antenna system with the one
 limitation that the somewhat low f/b ratio and sector-to-sector
 isolation will combine to place the burden for good AP-to-AP isolation
 on the quality of the co-located access point receivers and the quality
 of the overall AP/site design. Receivers with poor or moderate
 selectivity (in other words, receivers on Wi-Fi cards) will be
 overloaded by the other AP transmitters with the result being a
 throughput reduction that begins when traffic levels increase. The more
 traffic, the more missed incoming packets, the more retransmissions and
 the more throughput reduction. The result will be that the site reaches
 saturation sooner and won't handle as much traffic as a site where the
 AP receivers are not being overloaded.
 
 The solution (other than to use really expensive equipment which has
 good receiver filtering and selectivity built in) is to again use
 single-channel bandpass filters on each AP. These will reduce the level
 of signal from the co-located adjacent-channel AP transmitters and
 permit the site to handle more traffic (reach saturation later) than a
 site where the receivers ARE being overloaded.
 
 Finally, in addition to the above, it's important not to defeat the
 antenna isolation by letting RF energy leak directly from AP to AP
 either on the ground or from PC-card to PC card. Proper shielding and
 grounding will help to maintain that hard-won receiver-to-transmitter
 isolation resulting in a high-performance, high-traffic handling,
 reliable, profitable site.
 
 jack
 
 
 Rick Harnish wrote:
  Jack,
 
  While we are on this topic, look at the .pdf file and give me your
 comments
  on this all in one sector from Pac Wireless?
 
 
  Thanks,
 
  Rick Harnish
  President
  OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
  260-827-2482
  Founding Member of WISPA
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
  Behalf Of Jack Unger
  Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 4:18 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 180* sector choices
 
  Mac,
 
  Thanks for replying to my concerns and suggestions.
 
  Have you tried using 5 to 10 feet of vertical separation between the
  antennas rather than mounting them all at the same height? 10 feet of
  vertical separation should be enough to prevent one AP transmitter from
  overloading another AP receiver.
 
  Secondly, single-channel bandpass filters are available which will
  provide additional receiver protection from nearby transmitters
  operating on non-overlapping frequencies.
 
  Finally, higher-priced antennas normally have a higher front-to-back
  ratio which increases isolation (minimizes interaction) between the
  antennas. A minimum f/b ratio of 30 dBm is recommended.
 
  Keep in mind that without dealing with these antenna isolation issues,
  you will likely have the same problems using two 180* sector antennas as
  you have had using three 120* sector antennas.
 
  jack
 
 
  Mac Dearman wrote:
  See in line please
 
 
  Behalf of Jack Unger
 
  Mac,
 
  Before you discard the idea of using three 120* sectors are you
  absolutely certain that the separation issue is really due to the
  antennas not being far enough apart? Have you thoroughly looked at
 other
  reasons why there could be interference between three APs like:
 
  [Mac says:]
 
  Well Jack - I'd like to think that I have exhausted the other
  possibilities
  :-) but I am always willing to listen.
 
  1. Using three cards on a single motherboard in one enclosure without
  sufficient shielding between them.
 
  [Mac says:]
 
   All of our sector arrays utilize 3 

Re: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

2007-05-18 Thread George Rogato

Jack,
If one was to use 3 10MHz channels with 10MHz seperation between 
channels, they would see the same or better performance than 3 full size 
channels side by side.
So thats my advice, but it won't be wifi. Would be nice if there was a 5 
gig option per sector so that you could do 2 2 gig channels at 1 and 11 
and a 5 gig sector.


George

Jack Unger wrote:

Rick,

Here's what I see that's good about the Pac Wireless antenna:

1. The 3-in-1 design may be the only solution where only one 
antenna-mounting space exists on a tower.


2. The inclusion of electrical downtilt will minimize overshooting 
customers.


3. The inclusion of null fill will minimize connectivity problems with 
customers located very close to the tower.


4. The 15 dBi gain is in the appropriate and usable range.

5. The weight (14 lbs) will make the antenna easy to raise and mount.

6. The price range ($700) is moderate considering that you're really 
getting three sector antennas in one.


Here's what I see that will need special consideration and planning.

1. The front-to-back ratio is only 15 dB. This is low compared to the 30 
dB that I usually recommend for high-quality antennas.


2. The sector-to-sector isolation is 35 dB. When compared to the 83 dB 
of isolation that 10 feet of vertical separation would provide, 35 dB is 
a lot less.


In summary, this appears to be a good antenna system with the one 
limitation that the somewhat low f/b ratio and sector-to-sector 
isolation will combine to place the burden for good AP-to-AP isolation 
on the quality of the co-located access point receivers and the quality 
of the overall AP/site design. Receivers with poor or moderate 
selectivity (in other words, receivers on Wi-Fi cards) will be 
overloaded by the other AP transmitters with the result being a 
throughput reduction that begins when traffic levels increase. The more 
traffic, the more missed incoming packets, the more retransmissions and 
the more throughput reduction. The result will be that the site reaches 
saturation sooner and won't handle as much traffic as a site where the 
AP receivers are not being overloaded.


The solution (other than to use really expensive equipment which has 
good receiver filtering and selectivity built in) is to again use 
single-channel bandpass filters on each AP. These will reduce the level 
of signal from the co-located adjacent-channel AP transmitters and 
permit the site to handle more traffic (reach saturation later) than a 
site where the receivers ARE being overloaded.


Finally, in addition to the above, it's important not to defeat the 
antenna isolation by letting RF energy leak directly from AP to AP 
either on the ground or from PC-card to PC card. Proper shielding and 
grounding will help to maintain that hard-won receiver-to-transmitter 
isolation resulting in a high-performance, high-traffic handling, 
reliable, profitable site.


jack


Rick Harnish wrote:

Jack,

While we are on this topic, look at the .pdf file and give me your 
comments

on this all in one sector from Pac Wireless?


Thanks,

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482
Founding Member of WISPA

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 4:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 180* sector choices

Mac,

Thanks for replying to my concerns and suggestions.

Have you tried using 5 to 10 feet of vertical separation between the 
antennas rather than mounting them all at the same height? 10 feet of 
vertical separation should be enough to prevent one AP transmitter 
from overloading another AP receiver.


Secondly, single-channel bandpass filters are available which will 
provide additional receiver protection from nearby transmitters 
operating on non-overlapping frequencies.


Finally, higher-priced antennas normally have a higher front-to-back 
ratio which increases isolation (minimizes interaction) between the 
antennas. A minimum f/b ratio of 30 dBm is recommended.


Keep in mind that without dealing with these antenna isolation issues, 
you will likely have the same problems using two 180* sector antennas 
as you have had using three 120* sector antennas.


jack


Mac Dearman wrote:

See in line please



Behalf of Jack Unger

Mac,

Before you discard the idea of using three 120* sectors are you
absolutely certain that the separation issue is really due to the
antennas not being far enough apart? Have you thoroughly looked at 
other

reasons why there could be interference between three APs like:
 
[Mac says:]

Well Jack - I'd like to think that I have exhausted the other

possibilities

:-) but I am always willing to listen.


1. Using three cards on a single motherboard in one enclosure without
sufficient shielding between them.


[Mac says:]
 All of our sector arrays utilize 3 different enclosures with one 
radio to
the enclosure and then I try to separate the enclosures 

Re: [WISPA] $25 is cheap insurance... Was: What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-18 Thread George Rogato



Frank Muto wrote:



Now this is spot on. WISPA is an ADVOCATE for the WISP industry. It 
should never become, IMO an association buying group. Sure vendors may 
look at WISPA as a market channel and wish to support it with paid 
advertisements and sponsorships. But, unless there is enough accountable 
(not made up numbers)membership they may not care to support the 
organization.



Thank you for the lead in Frank.

My belief is, after having the buying group idea tossed around is for 
the vendors to offer the WISPA membership a special discount that only 
WISPA members can have. It's cleaner.


This is what WISPA needs to negotiate and work on.

You have already done this. Your offer of paying for any wisp's 250.00 
membership fee was very very good offer and a benefit to WISPA members.



Before I ran for the board I was about to start a wireless assembly 
business and I had a special discount for WISPA only members.


check out www.warvx.com and notice the special wispa discount listed on 
the right hand side under news.


WISPA eventually will get more vendors offering our membership special 
discounts. I've talked to various vendors myself and hear the maybe 
and pretty soon words.





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Re: [WISPA] Dues Value was What is WISPA?

2007-05-18 Thread George Rogato

Scott
That was just an idea. It's not the way it is.
Dues are simple 250.00 per year for a wisp , 1,000 for a vendor.

In the early formation days of WISPA the subject of how and how much to 
pay was tossed around and Marlon had a per wireless sub plan. I 
recommended 1,000 per wisp  because I felt there would not be enough 
wisps to support wispa and there has to be enough dues to keep the 
association going and give it enough money to work with to get things done.


Quite a few of the very small wisps didn't feel they could pay more than 
a couple hundred dollars per year.


So affordability won out and the dues are an easy 250.00 per year or 
25.00 per month and we take credit cards.


Pretty much most of the people who have payed dues realize that like my 
business and yours we need revenues to continue on, we are hoping that a 
lot more wisps join so that WISPA can get some things done.
We also need members to step forward and help out via the special 
committees. We have some that are kind of dormant that could use help 
and WISPA is willing to start new ones that anyone wants to create.


George


Scott Lambert wrote:

On Fri, May 18, 2007 at 10:17:22AM -0700, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 
wrote:

I wanted to make the dues $1 per year per customer.


Now, is that $1 per wireless customer, or per customer in general?  I
work for an old style ISP who has several thousand customers but only a
few hundred of them are wireless.

I just joined the lists to see if WISPA is something we need to be
involved in.



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Re: [WISPA] Re: Waltonville (third time's the charm)

2007-05-18 Thread George Rogato
Bob, I posted an article on the chat list about immigration, birth rates 
and population shifts over the next 20 years yesterday. It was an 
interesting article in the Smithsonian Magazine I read while at the 
dentist office.


http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2006/october/presence.php

Very interesting outcome is expected. I was surprised myself and I would 
recommend anyone who is worried about immigrants to read it.


George





Lakeland wrote:

Been too busy.  I have no life.
My Calea solution is a snap. Set the whole system up on a crappy removal 
hard drive that doesn't store data. When the feds show up, pull the hard 
drive and give it to them.
When they complain tell them it worked when you gave it to them! The 
feds love semantics. :-)
There is not enough money to be made as a WISP (a few excluded) to be 
bothered with all that nonsense IMHO. I know its the law but so is 
illegal immigration. Sheesh...I have over 40,000 illegal aliens within 
25 miles of my office doing work off the books and the federal 
government isn't doing anything about them.

I'm off to my next job.
Later...
-B-

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 writes:

LOL
Google is sometimes very helpful.
I love the Blues Brothers!  I knew just what I wanted but couldn't 
remember the exact quote.  Took all of 30 seconds to find it.

Now if only a nice CALEA solution was that fast :-)
How have you been stranger?  I tried calling a couple of times but 
only got voice jail.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 


- Original Message - From: Lakeland [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:37 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Re: Waltonville (third time's the charm)


You sir have too much time on your hands.
:-)
-B-

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 writes:
I'm sorry! No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat 
tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come 
back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. 
Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. 
Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD. I'm even built like 
Jake!  hehehehee For those that don't get it:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080455/quotes Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator 
since 1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: 
JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's 
the charm)]
Dangit Marlon - I thought you were going to take care of this ! If 
your performance and timeliness doesn't improve immediately, I'll 
have you in Idaho pickin potatoes ! JohnnyO

- Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:24 AM
Subject: [WISPA] [Fwd: Re: [wireless] Waltonville (third time's the 
charm)]
Why wasn't this done yesterday? I asked that it be done then. The 
people

of Waltonville deserve better than three days of bad service.
Scriv David E. Smith wrote:
Apparently, we will have to run new Ethernet cable at the 
Waltonville

tower, as we've now replaced basically everything else there and the
AP is still doing weird freaky stuff. yay. Tell Ron I'm sorry, 
then clear his morning schedule. dave


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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, NY 11741
800-479-9195
631-286-8873 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell
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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, NY 11741
800-479-9195
631-286-8873 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell


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[WISPA] It's Rhody Days here in Florence Oregon

2007-05-18 Thread George Rogato
My home town is celebrating our 100th Rhody Festival. It's the biggest 
celebration here on the Central Oregon Coast. The town fills up with 
motorcycles and we have parades, celebrations and a lot of fun. People 
come from all over the country for the weekend.


We are also a Distinguished Sponsor of the Florence Chamber of Commerce.
Part of the dues is the local TV station does a nice commercial.
Here's mine:
http://www.oregonfast.net/gofast/Commercial/YourConnection.mov

--
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RE: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-18 Thread Chadd Thompson
Butch,

Thanks for taking the time to reply with a well thought out professional
response to my questions.

 Those are just 2 examples, both of which were posted right here on
 this free list.


Sorry if what I was asking didn't come across the correct way. I am not
worried about the monetary value of what membership gives, that information
has been well advertised. There seems to be great support from vendors and
such to WISPA members.


 Looking from the outside it doesn't always appear that the ORG is
 able to uphold the code of ethics. This is mainly based off of
 discussions held on the freelist. I see comments from members,
 officers of the ORG that I feel do not uphold the above listed
 items from the code of ethics.

 I'd really like to understand what you see that makes this a true
 statement.


Just read some of the responses to this discussion that has been going on. I
think it is pretty obvious. Or if its not maybe I am reading more into
comments than I should be, if thats the case I apologize as I mentioned in
my previous post it is very difficult to interpret someones tone when
reading an email.

Here is a quote that I take as being non professional and I definalty don't
think comments like this do anything to support WISPA, our industry and in
my opinion do nothing to add any credibility to WISP's in general.

Quote
You've got this backward Peter.

The question is, what value to they bring to WISPA?
Unquote.

 I am not gonna sell you the organization.  But I will work on
 answering this a little.

 1. WISPA is right now working on a standard that will make CALEA
 safe harbor VERY INEXPENSIVE for WISPs.  Not just members.  This is
 an INDUSTRY solution.

Does WISPA seek input from members when dealing with issues like this? Or is
everything decided by a group of officers? In other words how does the ORG
run on a day to day basis, how are decisions made, how does it decide what
battles to fight, how does it determine what stance to take on issues?


 2. WISPA has been urging WISPs to file the 477 forms, which is
 important because it will make us, as an industry, a larger portion
 of the broadband deployment in the US (statistically) as far as the
 government is concerned.  Why is this important?  Besides being the
 law, government is working to insure that every American has access
 to broadband.  If we are providing that service in an area and they
 don't know about it, they will still work on a way to get that
 access available.

 3. WISPA has urged (on several occasions) WISPs to file comments on
 various spectrum issues that would be beneficial to WISPs.  WISPA
 has (as an organization) filed comments as well.  Because we don't
 have the $$ to hire a lobby, this is the best effort in this regard.

 Now it's time to ask YOU what YOU have done for our industry.  Have
 you filed comments on the issues that will impact your business?
 For the most part, over the past couple of years WISPA has.  Have
 you filed your 477?


Yes I have been sending in our 477 since it came out.
Tincans Wireless Internet

Yes I have commented on issues to the FCC with regards our industry. Some I
have heard about on this list and some I have heard about elsewhere.


 If you're not going to join, then just don't join.  Stop making
 excuses about what are you doing...You claim to be on the list
 since the beginning and you can't see what's been happening?  What
 advantage does WISPA offer you?  Give me a break.  WISPA has done a
 LOT, considering the $$ that they have to work with.  Either join or
 don't, but stop acting as though you need to be sold because you
 can't find anything on the website giving you what the value of
 WISPA is.

 FWIW, I do agree that WISPA needs to do a better job of selling
 itself on the website, but the point (in your case) is that you are
 just using it as an excuse, IMO.



Again Butch thanks for taking the time to respond in a professional,
productive manner. I am sure it looks as if I am making excuses not to join,
but if that was the case I wouldn't be here to begin with, it would not be
worth my energy/time if I was not truly intersted in joining and supporting
WISPA. I just have questions about how the ORG operates on a day to day
basis, how decisions are made, where does the average joe fit in, etc etc.

Thanks,
Chadd Thompson



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Re: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-18 Thread George Rogato



Chadd Thompson wrote:


Does WISPA seek input from members when dealing with issues like this? Or is
everything decided by a group of officers? In other words how does the ORG
run on a day to day basis, how are decisions made, how does it decide what
battles to fight, how does it determine what stance to take on issues?




Chadd

We really really want wisps to join participate get involved help advise 
and bring ideas to the table.


Some wisps help by sending a check and don't have the time to do much 
more than that. They don't even subscribe to this list. We  all are 
grateful to them as well.


But I think your active well thought out ideas and advice is a part of 
the consensus building that is needed to help lead WISPA in the right 
direction.


So yeah we want your input/help.

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Re: [WISPA] It's Rhody Days here in Florence Oregon

2007-05-18 Thread George Rogato
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that a Premium Distinguished Sponsor of 
this Chamber of Commerce is only $5,000.00 per year.


5 grand and I get a bunch of advertising, that does not have any 
immediate return. So I get a couple commercials and my name is always 
thanked on the radio during festivals and such. Next big one is Chowder 
Blues and Brews Festival.


Now compare that to the very low and very affordable price of 250.00 per 
year that it cost me to be a member in good standing in the most 
exclusive Wireless Internet Service Provider Association is the world.


One that gives me up to the minute news and information from all you 
insiders point of view in this wonderful world of wispdom.


Which is the better value?

WISPA $250.00 dues that make you smarter and better or

Local Community Support $5,000.00





George Rogato wrote:
My home town is celebrating our 100th Rhody Festival. It's the biggest 
celebration here on the Central Oregon Coast. The town fills up with 
motorcycles and we have parades, celebrations and a lot of fun. People 
come from all over the country for the weekend.


We are also a Distinguished Sponsor of the Florence Chamber of Commerce.
Part of the dues is the local TV station does a nice commercial.
Here's mine:
http://www.oregonfast.net/gofast/Commercial/YourConnection.mov



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RE: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list

2007-05-18 Thread Butch Evans

On Fri, 18 May 2007, Chadd Thompson wrote:

Sorry if what I was asking didn't come across the correct way. I am 
not worried about the monetary value of what membership gives, that 
information has been well advertised. There seems to be great 
support from vendors and such to WISPA members.


In that case, it seems the latter part of my response was a better 
answer to that part of your question.


Here is a quote that I take as being non professional and I 
definalty don't think comments like this do anything to support 
WISPA, our industry and in my opinion do nothing to add any 
credibility to WISP's in general.


Quote
You've got this backward Peter.

The question is, what value to they bring to WISPA?
Unquote.


Well, the point Marlon was making (I think) was that WISPA would be 
more of a benefit to all WISPs if all the WISP members joined in the 
effort.  I look at WISPA membership in a way that is similar to 
church membership (don't take that comparison too far... :-).  When 
I am looking for a church, I look for a place where I have 
opportunity to serve, as well as receive the things I need.  I think 
Marlon's point was similar (though he put it in a different way).


Joining WISPA should be only the first step.  Joining and then 
following through in helping to supply ideas and direction for the 
organization.  Ultimately, it is the board of directors that decide 
what WISPA does, but the board is elected by the membership and is, 
therefore, beholden to follow their ideas.  FWIW, the board is 
required in the bylaws to be comprised of a majority of WISPs. 
Vendors can hold a seat on the board, but the majority MUST be from 
the WISP membership.


Marlon (who you quoted) is a great guy, and a hard working leader in 
WISPA.  Perhaps I am speaking out of turn trying to explain his 
meaning, but that's what _I_ understood his post to mean.


1. WISPA is right now working on a standard that will make CALEA 
safe harbor VERY INEXPENSIVE for WISPs.  Not just members.  This 
is an INDUSTRY solution.


Does WISPA seek input from members when dealing with issues like 
this? Or is everything decided by a group of officers? In other 
words how does the ORG run on a day to day basis, how are decisions 
made, how does it decide what battles to fight, how does it 
determine what stance to take on issues?


Marlon, if I provide more information here than I should, you can 
slap me down on the other list.  :-)


I can give you a very brief synopsis of what we do on the CALEA 
committee.  When the issue of CALEA became forefront, we (WISPA) 
decided to try to make this less painful to WISPs.  For whatever 
reason (I can't say), CALEA was not addressed here on this list (may 
have been on the member list...).  Either way, by the time it was in 
front of us, it was too late to try to do much about it other than 
try to figure out a way to make it something that would not put a 
bunch of us (WISPs) out of business.  SO, several of us were asked 
by Marlon to try to create an industry standard that would be 
palatable for even the smallest WISP.  We took a list of questions, 
which was compiled from posts on this and other lists to the FBI to 
get clarification (answers) to those questions.  We, also, asked 
some questions that would help us to develop the industry standard 
that I mentioned above.  The initial result of that trip is the 
CALEA FAQ (http://www.wispa.org/?page_id=22).  We are working now to 
finish some documentation that will assist WISPs in the decision 
making process for HOW they can bring their network into compliance 
with the eventual standard.  We will be releasing some things from 
this committee in the next few days that will be helpful as well 
(until the standard is completed and approved).  I'm not sure if 
this answers the question, but it's my story and I'm sticking to it! 
:-)


WISPA is run by a board of directors that is elected by the 
membership.  You see posts from time to time on this list asking for 
input, but I presume there is more of that on the members list.  I 
am a vendor member, so I am not privy to what is posted there.  I'll 
leave it to one of the board members to offer more information on 
the day to day stuff you are asking about.


Again Butch thanks for taking the time to respond in a 
professional, productive manner. I am sure it looks as if I am 
making excuses not to join, but if that was the case I wouldn't be 
here to begin with, it would not be worth my energy/time if I was 
not truly intersted in joining and supporting WISPA. I just have 
questions about how the ORG operates on a day to day basis, how 
decisions are made, where does the average joe fit in, etc etc.


Some of your questions will have to be answered by a board member, 
because I am not, nor am I privy to the members only list.  I can 
tell you that every member of the current board will accept the 
input that members provide as part of their decision making process. 
I don't know all of