Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
Section 512(a) http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/512.html protects service providers who are passive conduits from liability for copyright infringement, even if infringing traffic passes through their networks. In other words, provided the infringing material is being transmitted at the request of a third party to a designated recipient, is handled by an automated process without human intervention, is not modified in any way, and is only temporarily stored on the system, the service provider is not liable for the transmission. My company is not responsible and I have don't see anything in there that says that we have to do anything in the absence of a subpoena or court order. On 9/26/2011 11:55 PM, Forrest W Christian (PF Lists) wrote: For those of you who are just ignoring these: I'd recommend you read up on the DMCA safe harbor rules See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Limitation_Act In short, if you follow the steps under the law, you have an affirmative defense against the copyright holders suing you for contributory infringement. -forrest WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Networking, LLC Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 (765) 439-4253 (855) 231-6239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
Sounds like something my dad would do. I hope to be a dad like that. Builds character! From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Steve Barnes Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 4:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown Our network is NATed and hard to pin down the customer but about a year ago I had one customer who was behind the address the was being complained about that was uploading 20GB a month and it was all torrent. That's a bunch at 256K up. So I called and talked to dad. Explained our AUP on illegal material. The next day the dad brought the Kid to my office and had him sweep my service area floors while I factory restored of his computer to delete all the illegal content. I told the dad that this is not necessary and he informed me that it most definitely was. Since that time they have been great customers and bought several computers and I really appreciate the father making the kid follow the law. Steve Barnes General Manager PCS-WIN / RC-WiFi http://www.rcwifi.com/ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Andy Trimmell Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 3:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown Ok. We just contacted a customer for the first time. We'll take your advice I think and respond to them and save the customer the grief. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown If I get repeated requests for the same customer my response to a customer is to tell them they may have a virus, spyware, or a teenager. I spin it where the very act of doing this is slowing down the customer's connection. If they are a customer who seems reasonable it might be prudent to mention such activities could expose them to lawsuits by movie companies. I don't mention illegal as to not freak out most customers. On the flipside you have the customers who share files just to be defiant to the RIAA. I don't have time to debate them. I typically do not pass on the request directly to the customer. Too many shady firms out there. If the customer contacts them they can be bullied into paying money. I just file these requests away and do respond to CYA. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter From: Andy Trimmell atrimm...@precisionds.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:42:05 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown Ya we don't give any customer information to anyone. We just pass along the takedown notice to the customer and tell them to stop. We were just wondering if anyone had any kind of official template or if they even passed along any notice to the customer at all stating they have been downloading copyrighted material. Does your customers even know they have been doing anything wrong before a subpoena is made? We've never received any of these until we switched providers. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown My .02 It's not illegal until a court, or law enforcement agency presents paperwork it is. It is not up to the ISP to be the Police. To me that's a loosing scenario to determine what is lawful and what is not. Let the experts determine that. My response to these is something along these lines: Thank you for contacting us. We would be glad to cooperate with any official legal request. Please have your attorneys forward all appropriate paperwork to Insert Law Firm contact info here. If you want to take the extra step throw in there you charge an administrative fee for providing any information on this customer. After legal paperwork has been cleared by your attorney of course. After all, you are helping these people (most of these are from law firms seeking a bounty) make money themselves. The only way I would turn over any sort of customer info is due to a subpoena or other such legal document. Lessens your exposure for lawsuits from the customers based upon privacy concerns. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter
Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
Well since these people aren't using our servers to keep their illegal software this section should cover it since it's their computer that has the illegal software not ours. § 512(a) Transitory Network Communications Safe Harbor Section 512(a) protects service providers who are passive conduits from liability for copyright infringement, even if infringing traffic passes through their networks. In other words, provided the infringing material is being transmitted at the request of a third party to a designated recipient, is handled by an automated process without human intervention, is not modified in any way, and is only temporarily stored on the system, the service provider is not liable for the transmission. The key difference in scope between this section, transitory network communications under 512(a), and caches, websites and search engine indexes under 512(b), 512(c) and 512(d) respectively, relates to the location of the infringing material. The other subsections create a conditional safe harbor for infringing material that resides on a system controlled by the OSP. For material that was temporarily stored in the course of network communications, this subsection's safe harbor additionally applies even for networks not under the OSP's control. Isn't that what all that means? Andy Trimmell Network Administrator atrimm...@precisionds.com 317.831.3000 ext 211 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Forrest W Christian (PF Lists) Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 11:55 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown For those of you who are just ignoring these: I'd recommend you read up on the DMCA safe harbor rules See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Limitation_Act In short, if you follow the steps under the law, you have an affirmative defense against the copyright holders suing you for contributory infringement. -forrest WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
Start reading here for ISPS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Limita tion_Act#Other_Defenses_for_OSPs The legal advice I have been given has always been e-mail is not a legal document. Responding to e-mails is more of a courtesy/CYA than anything. Make sure you have a designated agent. All official communication is supposed to go through this agent. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw Follow me on Twitter -Original Message- From: Forrest W Christian (PF Lists) li...@packetflux.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 21:55:20 -0600 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown For those of you who are just ignoring these: I'd recommend you read up on the DMCA safe harbor rules See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Limit ation_Act In short, if you follow the steps under the law, you have an affirmative defense against the copyright holders suing you for contributory infringement. -forrest -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
I wanted to thank everyone for their input. I am trying to summarize what I have found. I found a great informational site maintained by Stanford University. http://www.chillingeffects.org/piracy/notice.cgi?NoticeID=973. It has many links and FAQ for a basis to make decisions. It basically looks that if the ISP has a policy regarding copyright infringement, and a way to track each user, then the ISP is not playing COP, but responding to claims/accusations and should be protected under section 512 safe harbor laws in the DMCA. There are many requirements for the letter the copyright holder must follow, up to and including they have to swear under penalty of perjury that what they are sending is correct. If it isn't constructed properly, it is nothing. We are drafting a policy regarding receiving the letters, and how many times we will allow it to occur before we must protect our rights under section 512 for the safe harbor clause of the DMCA. Unless there is a legal document requiring us to present customer information, we will protect our customer's rights and privacy. Finally, we are seeking some legal advice to help draft those response letters and review our policies before implementing them. Thanks again. Eric -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 10:46 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown Start reading here for ISPS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Lim ita tion_Act#Other_Defenses_for_OSPs The legal advice I have been given has always been e-mail is not a legal document. Responding to e-mails is more of a courtesy/CYA than anything. Make sure you have a designated agent. All official communication is supposed to go through this agent. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter -Original Message- From: Forrest W Christian (PF Lists) li...@packetflux.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 21:55:20 -0600 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown For those of you who are just ignoring these: I'd recommend you read up on the DMCA safe harbor rules See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Li mit ation_Act In short, if you follow the steps under the law, you have an affirmative defense against the copyright holders suing you for contributory infringement. -forrest --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
Eric, If you get some quotes on the legal advice, send an email to the WISPA Board requesting assistance. This obviously affects all WISPs and is something the Board should be willing to help finance. Respectfully, Rick Harnish Executive Director WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 Option 2 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eric Rogers Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 2:55 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown I wanted to thank everyone for their input. I am trying to summarize what I have found. I found a great informational site maintained by Stanford University. http://www.chillingeffects.org/piracy/notice.cgi?NoticeID=973. It has many links and FAQ for a basis to make decisions. It basically looks that if the ISP has a policy regarding copyright infringement, and a way to track each user, then the ISP is not playing COP, but responding to claims/accusations and should be protected under section 512 safe harbor laws in the DMCA. There are many requirements for the letter the copyright holder must follow, up to and including they have to swear under penalty of perjury that what they are sending is correct. If it isn't constructed properly, it is nothing. We are drafting a policy regarding receiving the letters, and how many times we will allow it to occur before we must protect our rights under section 512 for the safe harbor clause of the DMCA. Unless there is a legal document requiring us to present customer information, we will protect our customer's rights and privacy. Finally, we are seeking some legal advice to help draft those response letters and review our policies before implementing them. Thanks again. Eric -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 10:46 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown Start reading here for ISPS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Lim ita tion_Act#Other_Defenses_for_OSPs The legal advice I have been given has always been e-mail is not a legal document. Responding to e-mails is more of a courtesy/CYA than anything. Make sure you have a designated agent. All official communication is supposed to go through this agent. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter -Original Message- From: Forrest W Christian (PF Lists) li...@packetflux.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 21:55:20 -0600 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown For those of you who are just ignoring these: I'd recommend you read up on the DMCA safe harbor rules See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Li mit ation_Act In short, if you follow the steps under the law, you have an affirmative defense against the copyright holders suing you for contributory infringement. -forrest --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] DMCA Takedown
How do you all respond to these takedowns? Do we need to respond back to our provider with anything? We've just been passing the information onto the customer in jeopardy. Are we doing all of our part? Most of the time its kids downloading games. So we send the parents an email and phone call talking about the takedown request. Is that enough or should we be responding to the provider that we contacted the pesky kids that foiled everything? Thanks Andy Trimmell Network Administrator atrimm...@precisionds.com 317.831.3000 ext 211 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
My .02 It's not illegal until a court, or law enforcement agency presents paperwork it is. It is not up to the ISP to be the Police. To me that¹s a loosing scenario to determine what is lawful and what is not. Let the experts determine that. My response to these is something along these lines: Thank you for contacting us. We would be glad to cooperate with any official legal request. Please have your attorneys forward all appropriate paperwork to Insert Law Firm contact info here. If you want to take the extra step throw in there you charge an administrative fee for providing any information on this customer. After legal paperwork has been cleared by your attorney of course. After all, you are helping these people (most of these are from law firms seeking a bounty) make money themselves. The only way I would turn over any sort of customer info is due to a subpoena or other such legal document. Lessens your exposure for lawsuits from the customers based upon privacy concerns. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw Follow me on Twitter From: Andy Trimmell atrimm...@precisionds.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 13:16:47 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown How do you all respond to these takedowns? Do we need to respond back to our provider with anything? We¹ve just been passing the information onto the customer in jeopardy. Are we doing all of our part? Most of the time its kids downloading games. So we send the parents an email and phone call talking about the takedown request. Is that enough or should we be responding to the provider that we contacted the pesky kids that foiled everything? Thanks Andy Trimmell Network Administrator atrimm...@precisionds.com 317.831.3000 ext 211 -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
Ya we don't give any customer information to anyone. We just pass along the takedown notice to the customer and tell them to stop. We were just wondering if anyone had any kind of official template or if they even passed along any notice to the customer at all stating they have been downloading copyrighted material. Does your customers even know they have been doing anything wrong before a subpoena is made? We've never received any of these until we switched providers. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown My .02 It's not illegal until a court, or law enforcement agency presents paperwork it is. It is not up to the ISP to be the Police. To me that's a loosing scenario to determine what is lawful and what is not. Let the experts determine that. My response to these is something along these lines: Thank you for contacting us. We would be glad to cooperate with any official legal request. Please have your attorneys forward all appropriate paperwork to Insert Law Firm contact info here. If you want to take the extra step throw in there you charge an administrative fee for providing any information on this customer. After legal paperwork has been cleared by your attorney of course. After all, you are helping these people (most of these are from law firms seeking a bounty) make money themselves. The only way I would turn over any sort of customer info is due to a subpoena or other such legal document. Lessens your exposure for lawsuits from the customers based upon privacy concerns. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter From: Andy Trimmell atrimm...@precisionds.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 13:16:47 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown How do you all respond to these takedowns? Do we need to respond back to our provider with anything? We've just been passing the information onto the customer in jeopardy. Are we doing all of our part? Most of the time its kids downloading games. So we send the parents an email and phone call talking about the takedown request. Is that enough or should we be responding to the provider that we contacted the pesky kids that foiled everything? Thanks Andy Trimmell Network Administrator atrimm...@precisionds.com 317.831.3000 ext 211 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
If I get repeated requests for the same customer my response to a customer is to tell them they may have a virus, spyware, or a teenager. I spin it where the very act of doing this is slowing down the customer's connection. If they are a customer who seems reasonable it might be prudent to mention such activities could expose them to lawsuits by movie companies. I don't mention illegal as to not freak out most customers. On the flipside you have the customers who share files just to be defiant to the RIAA. I don't have time to debate them. I typically do not pass on the request directly to the customer. Too many shady firms out there. If the customer contacts them they can be bullied into paying money. I just file these requests away and do respond to CYA. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw Follow me on Twitter From: Andy Trimmell atrimm...@precisionds.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:42:05 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown Ya we don¹t give any customer information to anyone. We just pass along the takedown notice to the customer and tell them to stop. We were just wondering if anyone had any kind of official template or if they even passed along any notice to the customer at all stating they have been downloading copyrighted material. Does your customers even know they have been doing anything wrong before a subpoena is made? We¹ve never received any of these until we switched providers. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown My .02 It's not illegal until a court, or law enforcement agency presents paperwork it is. It is not up to the ISP to be the Police. To me that¹s a loosing scenario to determine what is lawful and what is not. Let the experts determine that. My response to these is something along these lines: Thank you for contacting us. We would be glad to cooperate with any official legal request. Please have your attorneys forward all appropriate paperwork to Insert Law Firm contact info here. If you want to take the extra step throw in there you charge an administrative fee for providing any information on this customer. After legal paperwork has been cleared by your attorney of course. After all, you are helping these people (most of these are from law firms seeking a bounty) make money themselves. The only way I would turn over any sort of customer info is due to a subpoena or other such legal document. Lessens your exposure for lawsuits from the customers based upon privacy concerns. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw Follow me on Twitter From: Andy Trimmell atrimm...@precisionds.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 13:16:47 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown How do you all respond to these takedowns? Do we need to respond back to our provider with anything? We¹ve just been passing the information onto the customer in jeopardy. Are we doing all of our part? Most of the time its kids downloading games. So we send the parents an email and phone call talking about the takedown request. Is that enough or should we be responding to the provider that we contacted the pesky kids that foiled everything? Thanks Andy Trimmell Network Administrator atrimm...@precisionds.com 317.831.3000 ext 211 - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
Ok. We just contacted a customer for the first time. We'll take your advice I think and respond to them and save the customer the grief. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown If I get repeated requests for the same customer my response to a customer is to tell them they may have a virus, spyware, or a teenager. I spin it where the very act of doing this is slowing down the customer's connection. If they are a customer who seems reasonable it might be prudent to mention such activities could expose them to lawsuits by movie companies. I don't mention illegal as to not freak out most customers. On the flipside you have the customers who share files just to be defiant to the RIAA. I don't have time to debate them. I typically do not pass on the request directly to the customer. Too many shady firms out there. If the customer contacts them they can be bullied into paying money. I just file these requests away and do respond to CYA. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter From: Andy Trimmell atrimm...@precisionds.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:42:05 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown Ya we don't give any customer information to anyone. We just pass along the takedown notice to the customer and tell them to stop. We were just wondering if anyone had any kind of official template or if they even passed along any notice to the customer at all stating they have been downloading copyrighted material. Does your customers even know they have been doing anything wrong before a subpoena is made? We've never received any of these until we switched providers. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown My .02 It's not illegal until a court, or law enforcement agency presents paperwork it is. It is not up to the ISP to be the Police. To me that's a loosing scenario to determine what is lawful and what is not. Let the experts determine that. My response to these is something along these lines: Thank you for contacting us. We would be glad to cooperate with any official legal request. Please have your attorneys forward all appropriate paperwork to Insert Law Firm contact info here. If you want to take the extra step throw in there you charge an administrative fee for providing any information on this customer. After legal paperwork has been cleared by your attorney of course. After all, you are helping these people (most of these are from law firms seeking a bounty) make money themselves. The only way I would turn over any sort of customer info is due to a subpoena or other such legal document. Lessens your exposure for lawsuits from the customers based upon privacy concerns. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter From: Andy Trimmell atrimm...@precisionds.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 13:16:47 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown How do you all respond to these takedowns? Do we need to respond back to our provider with anything? We've just been passing the information onto the customer in jeopardy. Are we doing all of our part? Most of the time its kids downloading games. So we send the parents an email and phone call talking about the takedown request. Is that enough or should we be responding to the provider that we contacted the pesky kids that foiled everything? Thanks Andy Trimmell Network Administrator atrimm...@precisionds.com 317.831.3000 ext 211 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
We put them in a ticket on the customer account. We suspend the customer requesting they call us. We inform the customer of the issue and that we have a 3 strike policy regarding this. Typically Torrenting customers are problem customers and high usage anyways. The parents rarely understand, and typically they scare the kids into removing the programs. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Andy Trimmell atrimm...@precisionds.com wrote: Ok. We just contacted a customer for the first time. We’ll take your advice I think and respond to them and save the customer the grief. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown If I get repeated requests for the same customer my response to a customer is to tell them they may have a virus, spyware, or a teenager. I spin it where the very act of doing this is slowing down the customer's connection. If they are a customer who seems reasonable it might be prudent to mention such activities could expose them to lawsuits by movie companies. I don't mention illegal as to not freak out most customers. On the flipside you have the customers who share files just to be defiant to the RIAA. I don't have time to debate them. I typically do not pass on the request directly to the customer. Too many shady firms out there. If the customer contacts them they can be bullied into paying money. I just file these requests away and do respond to CYA. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter From: Andy Trimmell atrimm...@precisionds.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:42:05 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown Ya we don’t give any customer information to anyone. We just pass along the takedown notice to the customer and tell them to stop. We were just wondering if anyone had any kind of official template or if they even passed along any notice to the customer at all stating they have been downloading copyrighted material. Does your customers even know they have been doing anything wrong before a subpoena is made? We’ve never received any of these until we switched providers. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown My .02 It's not illegal until a court, or law enforcement agency presents paperwork it is. It is not up to the ISP to be the Police. To me that’s a loosing scenario to determine what is lawful and what is not. Let the experts determine that. My response to these is something along these lines: Thank you for contacting us. We would be glad to cooperate with any official legal request. Please have your attorneys forward all appropriate paperwork to Insert Law Firm contact info here. If you want to take the extra step throw in there you charge an administrative fee for providing any information on this customer. After legal paperwork has been cleared by your attorney of course. After all, you are helping these people (most of these are from law firms seeking a bounty) make money themselves. The only way I would turn over any sort of customer info is due to a subpoena or other such legal document. Lessens your exposure for lawsuits from the customers based upon privacy concerns. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter From: Andy Trimmell atrimm...@precisionds.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 13:16:47 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown How do you all respond to these takedowns? Do we need to respond back to our provider with anything? We’ve just been passing the information onto the customer in jeopardy. Are we doing all of our part? Most of the time its kids downloading games. So we send the parents an email and phone call talking about the takedown request. Is that enough or should we be responding to the provider that we contacted the pesky kids that foiled everything? Thanks Andy Trimmell Network Administrator atrimm...@precisionds.com 317.831.3000 ext 211 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List
Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
Our network is NATed and hard to pin down the customer but about a year ago I had one customer who was behind the address the was being complained about that was uploading 20GB a month and it was all torrent. That's a bunch at 256K up. So I called and talked to dad. Explained our AUP on illegal material. The next day the dad brought the Kid to my office and had him sweep my service area floors while I factory restored of his computer to delete all the illegal content. I told the dad that this is not necessary and he informed me that it most definitely was. Since that time they have been great customers and bought several computers and I really appreciate the father making the kid follow the law. Steve Barnes General Manager PCS-WIN / RC-WiFihttp://www.rcwifi.com/ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Andy Trimmell Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 3:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown Ok. We just contacted a customer for the first time. We'll take your advice I think and respond to them and save the customer the grief. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown If I get repeated requests for the same customer my response to a customer is to tell them they may have a virus, spyware, or a teenager. I spin it where the very act of doing this is slowing down the customer's connection. If they are a customer who seems reasonable it might be prudent to mention such activities could expose them to lawsuits by movie companies. I don't mention illegal as to not freak out most customers. On the flipside you have the customers who share files just to be defiant to the RIAA. I don't have time to debate them. I typically do not pass on the request directly to the customer. Too many shady firms out there. If the customer contacts them they can be bullied into paying money. I just file these requests away and do respond to CYA. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter From: Andy Trimmell atrimm...@precisionds.commailto:atrimm...@precisionds.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:42:05 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown Ya we don't give any customer information to anyone. We just pass along the takedown notice to the customer and tell them to stop. We were just wondering if anyone had any kind of official template or if they even passed along any notice to the customer at all stating they have been downloading copyrighted material. Does your customers even know they have been doing anything wrong before a subpoena is made? We've never received any of these until we switched providers. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown My .02 It's not illegal until a court, or law enforcement agency presents paperwork it is. It is not up to the ISP to be the Police. To me that's a loosing scenario to determine what is lawful and what is not. Let the experts determine that. My response to these is something along these lines: Thank you for contacting us. We would be glad to cooperate with any official legal request. Please have your attorneys forward all appropriate paperwork to Insert Law Firm contact info here. If you want to take the extra step throw in there you charge an administrative fee for providing any information on this customer. After legal paperwork has been cleared by your attorney of course. After all, you are helping these people (most of these are from law firms seeking a bounty) make money themselves. The only way I would turn over any sort of customer info is due to a subpoena or other such legal document. Lessens your exposure for lawsuits from the customers based upon privacy concerns. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter From: Andy Trimmell atrimm...@precisionds.commailto:atrimm...@precisionds.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 13:16:47 -0400 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown How do you all respond to these takedowns? Do we need to respond back to our provider with anything? We've just been passing the information onto
Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
Our new policy is to ignore it, and not respond. 99% of them are automated, so they dont even know if you didn't respond, and responding just creates evidence that maybe you are aware of a violation, and thus more on their radar to harass. If we respond, we have a template response, that is basically Due to our privacy policy, we will only disclose information or take action in cases where an offical subpoena has been provided through a court order or valid law inforcement agency. If there is reason to suggest that we should disclose some information, such as that our upstream carrier is requiring us to make a response, we say something similar to... This IP is behind NAT, and We do not currently have a mechanism in place to determine the identity of the user of the IP. With that said, we do investigate internally almost all requests. These requests are good to help give clue that a customer might have a Virus of some sort. Many movie downloads are not intentional. We will almost always notify a downstreme user of the report. We will almost always briefly look at traffic to determine if further action should be taken to investigate, to protect network performance. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Andy Trimmell To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 1:16 PM Subject: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown How do you all respond to these takedowns? Do we need to respond back to our provider with anything? We've just been passing the information onto the customer in jeopardy. Are we doing all of our part? Most of the time its kids downloading games. So we send the parents an email and phone call talking about the takedown request. Is that enough or should we be responding to the provider that we contacted the pesky kids that foiled everything? Thanks Andy Trimmell Network Administrator atrimm...@precisionds.com 317.831.3000 ext 211 -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
I had a bad day once and told one of these lawyer sharks to piss off. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/26/2011 12:16 PM, Andy Trimmell wrote: How do you all respond to these takedowns? Do we need to respond back to our provider with anything? We've just been passing the information onto the customer in jeopardy. Are we doing all of our part? Most of the time its kids downloading games. So we send the parents an email and phone call talking about the takedown request. Is that enough or should we be responding to the provider that we contacted the pesky kids that foiled everything? Thanks Andy Trimmell Network Administrator atrimm...@precisionds.com 317.831.3000 ext 211 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
+1 This is what we do as well. John On 09/26/2011 03:30 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: We put them in a ticket on the customer account. We suspend the customer requesting they call us. We inform the customer of the issue and that we have a 3 strike policy regarding this. Typically Torrenting customers are problem customers and high usage anyways. The parents rarely understand, and typically they scare the kids into removing the programs. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Andy Trimmell atrimm...@precisionds.com wrote: Ok. We just contacted a customer for the first time. We’ll take your advice I think and respond to them and save the customer the grief. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown If I get repeated requests for the same customer my response to a customer is to tell them they may have a virus, spyware, or a teenager. I spin it where the very act of doing this is slowing down the customer's connection. If they are a customer who seems reasonable it might be prudent to mention such activities could expose them to lawsuits by movie companies. I don't mention illegal as to not freak out most customers. On the flipside you have the customers who share files just to be defiant to the RIAA. I don't have time to debate them. I typically do not pass on the request directly to the customer. Too many shady firms out there. If the customer contacts them they can be bullied into paying money. I just file these requests away and do respond to CYA. Justin -- Justin Wilsonj...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter From: Andy Trimmellatrimm...@precisionds.com Reply-To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:42:05 -0400 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown Ya we don’t give any customer information to anyone. We just pass along the takedown notice to the customer and tell them to stop. We were just wondering if anyone had any kind of official template or if they even passed along any notice to the customer at all stating they have been downloading copyrighted material. Does your customers even know they have been doing anything wrong before a subpoena is made? We’ve never received any of these until we switched providers. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown My .02 It's not illegal until a court, or law enforcement agency presents paperwork it is. It is not up to the ISP to be the Police. To me that’s a loosing scenario to determine what is lawful and what is not. Let the experts determine that. My response to these is something along these lines: Thank you for contacting us. We would be glad to cooperate with any official legal request. Please have your attorneys forward all appropriate paperwork toInsert Law Firm contact info here. If you want to take the extra step throw in there you charge an administrative fee for providing any information on this customer. After legal paperwork has been cleared by your attorney of course. After all, you are helping these people (most of these are from law firms seeking a bounty) make money themselves. The only way I would turn over any sort of customer info is due to a subpoena or other such legal document. Lessens your exposure for lawsuits from the customers based upon privacy concerns. Justin -- Justin Wilsonj...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter From: Andy Trimmellatrimm...@precisionds.com Reply-To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 13:16:47 -0400 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown How do you all respond to these takedowns? Do we need to respond back to our provider with anything? We’ve just been passing the information onto the customer in jeopardy. Are we doing all of our part? Most of the time its kids downloading games. So we send the parents an email and phone call talking about the takedown request. Is that enough or should we be responding to the provider that we contacted the pesky kids that foiled everything? Thanks Andy Trimmell Network Administrator atrimm...@precisionds.com 317.831.3000 ext 211 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] DMCA Takedown
For those of you who are just ignoring these: I'd recommend you read up on the DMCA safe harbor rules See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Limitation_Act In short, if you follow the steps under the law, you have an affirmative defense against the copyright holders suing you for contributory infringement. -forrest WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] DMCA takedown battle
An interesting little story about the DMCA, the NFL and a lawyer. http://tinyurl.com/22cp6l or http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070320-nfl-fumbles-dmca-takedown-battle-could-face-sanctions.html -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
