Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
I use pfsense as my edge and core router and am happy with it. Hoping to turn up the initial socalwifi nodes this weekend. These will back haul through pfsense. So I will get a better sense of how it scales. Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: Tom - I think no matter what the solution is - it really comes down to the following: a. What you know and can do yourself. b. What you can obtain support for for free c. What you can obtain support for paid d. Overall ROI (free does not mean free ! ) I can see your point - we use pfsense in those cases where microtik would make sense - Why - because it is very easy - runs on basically anything that microtik would - and the gui is much more user friendly. PLUS - the cli makes complete sense - supports full BGP as well as many other routing protocols. We moved from using the more expensive options - like Cisco - and chose vyatta simply because their support is next to none. We had an issue @ 2AM - and had a call back by 2:15AM by 2:30 we were back up and running. Experience like that with Cisco - or Microtik - well we just have never found. Have you played with pfsense? have you played with vyatta? having used all 3 I can tell you microtik is for me the last choice. On Sep 20, 2010, at 11:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: I have to disagree. Except I'm arguing the opposite on Mikrotik's side. There is nothing free about Vyatta for a commerical WISP. Mikrotik is much much less expensive. Low Price is a major reason to use Mikrotik over Vyatta. I do not mean this as a negative comment about Vyatta, as Vyatta makes a good product and has a strong support team. Its understandable that good people tend to charge for quality support. My point here is that a Commerical ISP would be a fool to use Vyatta Free addition for any serious commercial application. There are many reasons for that. For example, having to wait 6 months for a bug fix is way to long, expecially if its a new BGP vulnerabilty that will crash your BGP within minutes. Or maybe its when you need to upgrade to the next version, and you learn that its not possible to upgrade the FREE version, unless you reload from scratch and reconfigure from scratch, which means lots and lots of long down time for core routers. I'd highly recommend that Providers use the PAID version of Vyatta, if VYatta being used for anything serious. Vyatta license is like $600-$900 per year, NOT $45 for life of next couple versions like MIkrotik offers. I'm just saying, lets keep it real Its not fair to compare a non-supported open source old version product (Vyatta) with a commercially supported product (Mikrotik). Vyatta is a premium product (based on support) and they charge accordingly. Mikrotik on the other hand is a value product. I'm not aware of any otehr product on the market that offers a more complete advanced router product for such a low price. Its insane how inexpensive Mikrotik is for what it delivers, in the router market. Many argue Vyatta Free edition is fine for a single client appliance. Maybe so. Although, a fast processor Routerboard costs under $100, and w/ Vyatta it will need more expensive PC like hardware which will far exceed teh Mikrotik License costs. So anyway you slice it Vyatta is more expensive. Where Vyatta can compete is on High capacity multi-Gig routers, but at a yearly reoccuring price. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik If you look at the two just from a cost perspective, the x86 for Vyatta is Free, RouterOS would be just $45 bucks for their license. FREE vs $45 bucks. Just saying that MT is SO cheap, I would not let that little cost to make a difference in the comparison. --- Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Kelley Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 2:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik We use vyatta a great bit - if you want any advice for it - hit me up offlist. Microtik is $$$ vyatta can be - but their opensource is FREE really nice application. On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:55 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote: Vyatta has a cool product line. Their open source version is free. They have a paid product that is much more full-featured. They make most of their money from their support contracts. Jeff ImageStream -Original Message- From: wireless-boun
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
not aware of any otehr product on the market that offers a more complete advanced router product for such a low price. Its insane how inexpensive Mikrotik is for what it delivers, in the router market. Many argue Vyatta Free edition is fine for a single client appliance. Maybe so. Although, a fast processor Routerboard costs under $100, and w/ Vyatta it will need more expensive PC like hardware which will far exceed teh Mikrotik License costs. So anyway you slice it Vyatta is more expensive. Where Vyatta can compete is on High capacity multi-Gig routers, but at a yearly reoccuring price. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik If you look at the two just from a cost perspective, the x86 for Vyatta is Free, RouterOS would be just $45 bucks for their license. FREE vs $45 bucks. Just saying that MT is SO cheap, I would not let that little cost to make a difference in the comparison. --- Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Kelley Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 2:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik We use vyatta a great bit - if you want any advice for it - hit me up offlist. Microtik is $$$ vyatta can be - but their opensource is FREE really nice application. On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:55 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote: Vyatta has a cool product line. Their open source version is free. They have a paid product that is much more full-featured. They make most of their money from their support contracts. Jeff ImageStream -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 1:54 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I guess you're right, appears it is free: http://www.vyatta.com/downloads/index.php Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Greg Ihnenos10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Isn't Vyatta for the x86 free? I'm not familiar with OpenWRT, but between dd-WRT and RouterOS it's no contest. RouterOS wins. Greg On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Several threads have suggests Mikrotik over Vyatta. Cheaper and better. I have not used Vyatta. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Fred Goldsteinfgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 9/17/2010 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Sounds to me like they are not familiar with RouterOS. Mikrotik's RouterOS does just about everything that you can imagine in a layer 2 and layer 3 network device. It does not perform all of these tasks flawlessly, but the platform is more then usable. Just need to watch out for the gotchas. You're right.. I'm not all that familiar with RouterOS yet. I'm doing the design now and want to make sure that RouterOS can do what I want it to do. Of course there's always OpenWRT or DD-WRT but they don't seem to do as much yet. And RouterOS allows virtualization, so we can presumably test WRT hacks in a virtual partition without bringing down the production net. UBNT has a little CPU too but it just comes with, I think, Kamikaze, and nobody seems to take it seriously. Down on the ground, something bigger like Vyatta should be able to handle all of the real routing load. So I want to take each of the subscriber CPE radios (probably all UBNT) and make each one a VLAN, switched back to the big router that sits near the fiber. This is a little out of the usual route everywhere box. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Butch Evansbut...@butchevans.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:29 -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: Glad to hear it's working. My plan is to put a router at the core and run layer 2 beyond. How flexible is RouterOS for setting up lots of VLANs? VERY flexible. http://blog.butchevans.com/2010/02/to-tag-or-not-to-tag-that-is-the -question/ I'm thinking of using HWMP+ to automatically create paths (route, but not in the IP layer) them across the network (mesh, in the literal topological sense). Thanks... Mikrotik's Mesh is working, but it's not a great solution just yet. Mesh is one of those things that MT also does, if you catch my drift
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Faisal, Very, Very well stated. This is the strength of this list and at time the weakness. We are passionate people passionate about what we do and how we got to where we are. I cannot tell you the number of times that I have written full page emails here ready to flame someone for not doing what I do to get it off my chest then delete the email before sending. (Makes me feel better knowing that I at least stated my opinion if no one else at least to myself, makes us feel better My Precious) I know for sure I have NOT done my network right lots of times and this list has been so helpful knowing that I am not alone. At least we all have the same goal: service our customers the best we can within the resources we have and the understanding we can gain from learning from others. Steve Barnes RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 10:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik This has been an interesting thread... I cannot help but remember a story that someone told me when I was young. As an experiment, a group of blind folks were taken to a Zoo and introduced to an Elephant. Obviously they had never seen one. After the visit they were asked to describe their experience and what they thought an Elephant was. The person who got to touch the Elephant's tail, described the Elephant as a Big Rope, the person who got to touch the Elephant's Legs, described it as Tree Trunk, the person who got to touch the Elephant's trunk , described it as a big flexible hose etc. etc. etc. The point of the story is that we all draw our opinions based on our experiences, and for that exact reason it is very important for us all to 'Expand' such experiences by sharing info in such forms as this one. I have been in the technology business for over 20 years, first as a Computer VAR, and then as ISP/NSP Services provider. One thing that we all have to recognize about our industry is that, Electronic Communications Technology is about the only industry where THERE IS NO SUCH THING as RIGHT OR WRONG.. However we do have industry standards and technical standards.. if you choose not to follow them, then YOU WILL EXPERIENCE IN-CONSISTENT Results. Cisco, Mikrotik, Juniper, Vyatta, PfSense, MonoWall, Linux, etc. etc. are all routing platforms each with their core strengths, claiming anyone of these to be 'THE' products would be a fool's argument. The original thread was about having a network 'IN-CONSISTENCY' on a network that was not designed / setup with 'INDUSTRY STANDARDS', and Frustration was being taken out on a MFG. To me the Key Point out of this Thread is Build your network using 'Industry Best Practice', stay withing the Technical Guide Lines, and Choose Your Tools (Routers / Wireless Equipment etc) wisely. Comparing Notes with each other is a great way of learning, so that one does not have to repeat the same mistakes, and expanding horizons. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/21/2010 9:45 AM, Charles n wyble wrote: I use pfsense as my edge and core router and am happy with it. Hoping to turn up the initial socalwifi nodes this weekend. These will back haul through pfsense. So I will get a better sense of how it scales. Glenn Kelleygl...@hostmedic.com wrote: Tom - I think no matter what the solution is - it really comes down to the following: a. What you know and can do yourself. b. What you can obtain support for for free c. What you can obtain support for paid d. Overall ROI (free does not mean free ! ) I can see your point - we use pfsense in those cases where microtik would make sense - Why - because it is very easy - runs on basically anything that microtik would - and the gui is much more user friendly. PLUS - the cli makes complete sense - supports full BGP as well as many other routing protocols. We moved from using the more expensive options - like Cisco - and chose vyatta simply because their support is next to none. We had an issue @ 2AM - and had a call back by 2:15AM by 2:30 we were back up and running. Experience like that with Cisco - or Microtik - well we just have never found. Have you played with pfsense? have you played with vyatta? having used all 3 I can tell you microtik is for me the last choice. On Sep 20, 2010, at 11:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: I have to disagree. Except I'm arguing the opposite on Mikrotik's side. There is nothing free about Vyatta for a commerical WISP. Mikrotik is much much less expensive. Low Price is a major reason to use Mikrotik over Vyatta. I do not mean this as a negative comment about Vyatta, as Vyatta makes a good product and has a strong support team. Its understandable that good people tend to charge for quality support. My point here
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
there are so many solutions out there that have good commerical support, not just open sopurce support, man y customers just dont buight on open source products that aren't supported. I know, I'm saying things that go against everything that I beleive in and push. We are 100% a Linux shop. Been using Linux routers since day one, we love them. I'm just learning that I no longer have the person bandwidth to help every one all the time anymore. And I cant afford to add the salary of the person that could help out. I say, let the end user pay for it. Pitch supported solutions. So then I can support them if I want to, but if I dont have the time, I can point them to somewhere that can. What I dont like about Vyatta is that they are the epitome of both no support or the the best support. If I refer my customers to Paid Vyatta product, I loose all the TM billing I could get for helping the cusotmer myself. Why would the customer call me, if they already pain Vyatta $600-$900 per year under contract? I dont want to give my revenue and business to Vyatta. Then on the Free edition, well its more to support than I want to signup for, because there is now liabilty. IF something needs to be fixed fast, I may not be in the position to fix it in that Emergency, when I dont have the right to support. So my point is... Vyatta is nice, but how does that help me make money from my customers? I guess I could also support Vyatta, just like a Cisco CNA supports a customer that has a Cisco router that has a Cisco maintenance contract. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - *From:* Glenn Kelley mailto:gl...@hostmedic.com *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:04 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik Tom - I think no matter what the solution is - it really comes down to the following: a. What you know and can do yourself. b. What you can obtain support for for free c. What you can obtain support for paid d. Overall ROI (free does not mean free ! ) I can see your point - we use pfsense in those cases where microtik would make sense - Why - because it is very easy - runs on basically anything that microtik would - and the gui is much more user friendly. PLUS - the cli makes complete sense - supports full BGP as well as many other routing protocols. We moved from using the more expensive options - like Cisco - and chose vyatta simply because their support is next to none. We had an issue @ 2AM - and had a call back by 2:15AM by 2:30 we were back up and running. Experience like that with Cisco - or Microtik - well we just have never found. Have you played with pfsense? have you played with vyatta? having used all 3 I can tell you microtik is for me the last choice. On Sep 20, 2010, at 11:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: I have to disagree. Except I'm arguing the opposite on Mikrotik's side. There is nothing free about Vyatta for a commerical WISP. Mikrotik is much much less expensive. Low Price is a major reason to use Mikrotik over Vyatta. I do not mean this as a negative comment about Vyatta, as Vyatta makes a good product and has a strong support team. Its understandable that good people tend to charge for quality support. My point here is that a Commerical ISP would be a fool to use Vyatta Free addition for any serious commercial application. There are many reasons for that. For example, having to wait 6 months for a bug fix is way to long, expecially if its a new BGP vulnerabilty that will crash your BGP within minutes. Or maybe its when you need to upgrade to the next version, and you learn that its not possible to upgrade the FREE version, unless you reload from scratch and reconfigure from scratch, which means lots and lots of long down time for core routers. I'd highly recommend that Providers use the PAID version of Vyatta, if VYatta being used for anything serious. Vyatta license is like $600-$900 per year, NOT $45 for life of next couple versions like MIkrotik offers. I'm just saying, lets keep it real Its not fair to compare a non-supported open source old version product (Vyatta) with a commercially supported product (Mikrotik). Vyatta is a premium product (based on support) and they charge accordingly. Mikrotik on the other hand is a value product. I'm not aware of any otehr product on the market that offers a more complete advanced router product for such a low price. Its insane how inexpensive Mikrotik is for what it delivers, in the router market. Many argue Vyatta Free edition is fine for a single client appliance. Maybe so. Although, a fast processor Routerboard costs
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Steve, What a nice email, thanks. Yes I'm at the hotel bar at LA and you're right, this was a recipe to fix the chest pain my system was giving my young heart. :) This is a very supportive list of some very good people and I'm sorry when I just lash out but Thursday's 16 hour work day and 8 outages was about all I could take. I fully understand those saying route your network but last week when I put in a gig switch with layer 3 switching to start the routing chain, just installing it caused 4 outages before I even put it on the network. Some day I think the 'gods against progress' just wait for me to start improvements then slam me with outages to keep me from finishing. I almost feel dramatic in my response but I hate drama and people who whine but I've called these experts and they all disagree use WDS, turn on STP, no don't use STP, its all so confusing when not a true geek in the literal sense. Im trying to grasp the technicalities but I'm more a marketing guy who has a pretty kick ass system and a lot of really really loyal customers, I just want to do good by them. Have a great weekend and I look forward to seeing you at MUM. Well off to bed, I'm going to go ride roller coasters tomorrow, dammit I'm not too old even at 52! Forbes On 9/17/2010 5:52 AM, Steve Barnes wrote: Forbes, I understand your feelings and I hope your vacation is better than you expect. My recommendation is you have good people they can do it. Have someone hide your laptop and leave your cellphone in your room and go enjoy your vacation. Take an hour at the end of the day and check up on where things are to ease your mind. We will learn ways at MUM to help you out. Maybe you ought to pay a MTik Guru to look over your network layout and help you out. I will have such a guru riding shotgun with me at MUM. He may want to charge you for real support if you get two deep but he will give you some time I am sure on evening. But till then relax if nothing else for the weekend. *Steve Barnes* RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/ *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Ryan Ghering *Sent:* Friday, September 17, 2010 8:41 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik You know its funny I read these experiences with different types of gear, mind you we have never used Mikrotik for SM's to the customers but we do use them exclusively for other things. However we have similar problems with ANY of the gear we have purchased over the years. Most the most problems we experience are nearly 90% customer related. LIke.. Well yea I unplugged it all and replugged it in and it still don't work I.E the customer plugged the gear in WRONG again.. Or I'm getting all sorts of packet-loss.. I.E the customer had roof work done and never told us so the antenna is out of alignment and or cable was cut and soldered back together. ( We get a lot of that one btw.) And EVEN with a 65.00 trip fee they continue to do stupid crap, its the nature of our business I think.. However my FAVORITE problem of all time and we have had about 9 of these is from customers on Canopy 900 units. It goes.. YOU BLEW UP MY ETHERNET AND OR MOTHERBOARD WITH YOUR GEAR!!! yes somehow we blew up the customers gear even though the SM is setup properly using a Canopy Surge Suppressor and a router between the SM and PC.. We actually had 2 customers try to Sue us over this.. And even though we won, they STILL don't believe that it wasn't us.. Stranger is that they still want to be customers.. BTW all 9 of those ended up with a bad AC line in the house or broken ground and or neutral.. My main point here is that even we the ISP's need to remember that we are dealing with mass produced electronics. Products that are made as cheaply and quickly as possible to feed our customers needs. While some of us may get years of good service from one brand others may only get months or days. To many factors go into why that is.. But in the most basic form, I'll tell you what my instructor told all of us in my DC electronics class nearly 20 years ago.. If its got a circuit board it will break in some manner.. Its only a matter of when. BTW I do know that most config issues where the config is lost and or reset is due to large amounts of static electricity hitting the gear.. Doesn't matter what gear it is.. When a large (static burst) hits the NVRAM on a board it will often erase the config. But thanks for reading.. Just my 2 cents.. Ryan On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 6:18 AM, Jeremy Parr jeremyp...@gmail.com mailto:jeremyp...@gmail.com wrote: On 17 September 2010 04:27, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: How my day ended, I really don't mean to slight Mikrotik or it's dealers. People who route their networks will have a fraction of the problems I have
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Some 411's some 433's all running 4.11, the 133's are running 3.something, all current with firmware upgrades as well, no change to speak of. On 9/17/2010 5:18 AM, Jeremy Parr wrote: On 17 September 2010 04:27, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: How my day ended, I really don't mean to slight Mikrotik or it's dealers. People who route their networks will have a fraction of the problems I have but I have to admit the excuse of must be your employees or that never happens got old about 20 outages ago. Today I had 8 major outages, 4 of them we found a bridge or ports erased and the IP displaying 0.0.0.0. This was an easy fix, log in and add the bridge and ports then click on the IP and it came back legitimate again. Shame we had to make the trip to the towers to do that. The other 4 not so easy, they showed the IP correctly but not in Winbox and they had the MAC address as 00.00.00.00.00, well 12 times, you get it. Those we had to pull the backhaul and reset it then reprogram it. A hellish day but we didn't miss the fact that the UBNT units never crashed no matter what this crazy bridging issue was. It was just a real bad day to be in this business but I appreciate the help that I got from Mikrotik dealers who really care to help resolve this but are as equally frustrated as I was, while aging about 3 years in one day. Like watching a baby sleep the night is uneventful after a 15 hour work day and my with my added worry about taking 4 vacation days this weekend. I wish I could trust the equipment from overreacting to every damn bit of unfriendly traffic by shutting down the LAN port or resetting the radio but I can't, it's my employees problem now but it will certainly take away from the joy of my time off since I know their attitude is more like, 'let them wait' then my feeling of 'people down is lost income', employees What hardware do you run MT on, and what versions of the software are you using? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Forbes, this business has its up downs. I've spent all year so far upgrading my tower APs backhauls. Then weird things started happening. Its disheartening when you think your doing good but it ends up being bad! You're right though, the list is very helpfull (thanks to all!). After things are fixed and the customers realize you have made things better they are generally forgiving and even appreciative in many cases. I always say, no pain, no gain. At any rate, enjoy your time off and if you're going to Magic Mountain, check you heart out on Superman.Nothing like a 100mph roller coaster to get the blood flowing! BTW: Without a doubt, WDS fixed all my issues. STP caused me issues. Been running clean without lockups or reboots for over a week now. Speed is amazing. Thanks again to all! -RickG On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 4:02 AM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.comwrote: Steve, What a nice email, thanks. Yes I'm at the hotel bar at LA and you're right, this was a recipe to fix the chest pain my system was giving my young heart. :) This is a very supportive list of some very good people and I'm sorry when I just lash out but Thursday's 16 hour work day and 8 outages was about all I could take. I fully understand those saying route your network but last week when I put in a gig switch with layer 3 switching to start the routing chain, just installing it caused 4 outages before I even put it on the network. Some day I think the 'gods against progress' just wait for me to start improvements then slam me with outages to keep me from finishing. I almost feel dramatic in my response but I hate drama and people who whine but I've called these experts and they all disagree use WDS, turn on STP, no don't use STP, its all so confusing when not a true geek in the literal sense. Im trying to grasp the technicalities but I'm more a marketing guy who has a pretty kick ass system and a lot of really really loyal customers, I just want to do good by them. Have a great weekend and I look forward to seeing you at MUM. Well off to bed, I'm going to go ride roller coasters tomorrow, dammit I'm not too old even at 52! Forbes On 9/17/2010 5:52 AM, Steve Barnes wrote: Forbes, I understand your feelings and I hope your vacation is better than you expect. My recommendation is you have good people they can do it. Have someone hide your laptop and leave your cellphone in your room and go enjoy your vacation. Take an hour at the end of the day and check up on where things are to ease your mind. We will learn ways at MUM to help you out. Maybe you ought to pay a MTik Guru to look over your network layout and help you out. I will have such a guru riding shotgun with me at MUM. He may want to charge you for real support if you get two deep but he will give you some time I am sure on evening. But till then relax if nothing else for the weekend. *Steve Barnes* RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service http://www.rcwifi.com/ *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgwireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Ryan Ghering *Sent:* Friday, September 17, 2010 8:41 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik You know its funny I read these experiences with different types of gear, mind you we have never used Mikrotik for SM's to the customers but we do use them exclusively for other things. However we have similar problems with ANY of the gear we have purchased over the years. Most the most problems we experience are nearly 90% customer related. LIke.. Well yea I unplugged it all and replugged it in and it still don't work I.E the customer plugged the gear in WRONG again.. Or I'm getting all sorts of packet-loss.. I.E the customer had roof work done and never told us so the antenna is out of alignment and or cable was cut and soldered back together. ( We get a lot of that one btw.) And EVEN with a 65.00 trip fee they continue to do stupid crap, its the nature of our business I think.. However my FAVORITE problem of all time and we have had about 9 of these is from customers on Canopy 900 units. It goes.. YOU BLEW UP MY ETHERNET AND OR MOTHERBOARD WITH YOUR GEAR!!! yes somehow we blew up the customers gear even though the SM is setup properly using a Canopy Surge Suppressor and a router between the SM and PC.. We actually had 2 customers try to Sue us over this.. And even though we won, they STILL don't believe that it wasn't us.. Stranger is that they still want to be customers.. BTW all 9 of those ended up with a bad AC line in the house or broken ground and or neutral.. My main point here is that even we the ISP's need to remember that we are dealing with mass produced electronics. Products that are made as cheaply and quickly as possible to feed our customers needs. While some of us may get years of good service from one brand others may only get months or days. To many factors
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Vyatta has a much better reputation for stability for things like internet border routing among the usual internet-scale suspects on nanog list etc. Mikrotik has a pretty bad rap out there for 'causing' a couple global BGP issues a year or so ago. MT isn't helping by being largely incompetent at change/quality control. Regressons appearing between releases on modules where there are no changes listed in the changelog etc. That said, I use mikrotik for internal routers and have no vyatta deployed so ymmv I haven't had problems with either. On Sep 17, 2010 12:47 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Several threads have suggests Mikrotik over Vyatta. Cheaper and better. I have not used Vyatta. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 9/17/2010 12:39 ... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
On Sat, 2010-09-18 at 16:04 -0500, Jon Auer wrote: Vyatta has a much better reputation for stability for things like internet border routing among the usual internet-scale suspects on nanog list etc. I suspect this is more about a lack of understanding of the fact that Mikrotik is NOT RouterBoard than it is about stability. Mikrotik has a pretty bad rap out there for 'causing' a couple global BGP issues a year or so ago. Yeah. It's stupid that such smart people can't see the difference between a technology and an admin. Guess which was REALLY responsible for this bgp issue. MT isn't helping by being largely incompetent at change/quality control. Regressons appearing between releases on modules where there are no changes listed in the changelog etc. No argument from me there. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
MT isn't helping by being largely incompetent at change/quality control. Regressons appearing between releases on modules where there are no changes listed in the changelog etc. Changelogs that don't reflect actual changes or secretive known bugs are a bad industry habit. Cisco does that as well, and both Cisco and MT bother me when they do this. By doing this Cisco allowed its biggest competitor to grow, Juniper; MT counterpart seems to be Ubiquiti. (and for the record, Juniper now has the same bad habit, and Ubiquiti seems to be developing it) Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
How my day ended, I really don't mean to slight Mikrotik or it's dealers. People who route their networks will have a fraction of the problems I have but I have to admit the excuse of must be your employees or that never happens got old about 20 outages ago. Today I had 8 major outages, 4 of them we found a bridge or ports erased and the IP displaying 0.0.0.0. This was an easy fix, log in and add the bridge and ports then click on the IP and it came back legitimate again. Shame we had to make the trip to the towers to do that. The other 4 not so easy, they showed the IP correctly but not in Winbox and they had the MAC address as 00.00.00.00.00, well 12 times, you get it. Those we had to pull the backhaul and reset it then reprogram it. A hellish day but we didn't miss the fact that the UBNT units never crashed no matter what this crazy bridging issue was. It was just a real bad day to be in this business but I appreciate the help that I got from Mikrotik dealers who really care to help resolve this but are as equally frustrated as I was, while aging about 3 years in one day. Like watching a baby sleep the night is uneventful after a 15 hour work day and my with my added worry about taking 4 vacation days this weekend. I wish I could trust the equipment from overreacting to every damn bit of unfriendly traffic by shutting down the LAN port or resetting the radio but I can't, it's my employees problem now but it will certainly take away from the joy of my time off since I know their attitude is more like, 'let them wait' then my feeling of 'people down is lost income', employees Forbes On 9/16/2010 7:44 PM, RickG wrote: For me, the StarOS/WRAP combo performed very well since 2004. The only issues I had were coax related. Otherwise, I agree, I dont like equipment you have to put together. I save my tinkering around for personal stuff but much rather have a fully designed radio for commercial purposes. On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net mailto:markl...@uwol.net wrote: There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
For the large number of us who use Mikrotiks and haven't seen the problems you are having, it just has me suspicious that the problems you've seen with the Mikrotiks are a result of an indirect problem. Then again maybe the Mikrotik's just don't do well in a large bridge environment? On 09/17/2010 04:27 AM, Forbes Mercy wrote: How my day ended, I really don't mean to slight Mikotik or it's dealers. People who route their networks will have a fraction of the problems I have but I have to admit the excuse of must be your employees or that never happens got old about 20 outages ago. Today I had 8 major outages, 4 of them we found a bridge or ports erased and the IP displaying 0.0.0.0. This was an easy fix, log in and add the bridge and ports then click on the IP and it came back legitimate again. Shame we had to make the trip to the towers to do that. The other 4 not so easy, they showed the IP correctly but not in Winbox and they had the MAC address as 00.00.00.00.00, well 12 times, you get it. Those we had to pull the backhaul and reset it then reprogram it. A hellish day but we didn't miss the fact that the UBNT units never crashed no matter what this crazy bridging issue was. It was just a real bad day to be in this business but I appreciate the help that I got from Mikrotik dealers who really care to help resolve this but are as equally frustrated as I was, while aging about 3 years in one day. Like watching a baby sleep the night is uneventful after a 15 hour work day and my with my added worry about taking 4 vacation days this weekend. I wish I could trust the equipment from overreacting to every damn bit of unfriendly traffic by shutting down the LAN port or resetting the radio but I can't, it's my employees problem now but it will certainly take away from the joy of my time off since I know their attitude is more like, 'let them wait' then my feeling of 'people down is lost income', employees Forbes On 9/16/2010 7:44 PM, RickG wrote: For me, the StarOS/WRAP combo performed very well since 2004. The only issues I had were coax related. Otherwise, I agree, I dont like equipment you have to put together. I save my tinkering around for personal stuff but much rather have a fully designed radio for commercial purposes. On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net mailto:markl...@uwol.net wrote: There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
On 17 September 2010 04:27, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.comwrote: How my day ended, I really don't mean to slight Mikrotik or it's dealers. People who route their networks will have a fraction of the problems I have but I have to admit the excuse of must be your employees or that never happens got old about 20 outages ago. Today I had 8 major outages, 4 of them we found a bridge or ports erased and the IP displaying 0.0.0.0. This was an easy fix, log in and add the bridge and ports then click on the IP and it came back legitimate again. Shame we had to make the trip to the towers to do that. The other 4 not so easy, they showed the IP correctly but not in Winbox and they had the MAC address as 00.00.00.00.00, well 12 times, you get it. Those we had to pull the backhaul and reset it then reprogram it. A hellish day but we didn't miss the fact that the UBNT units never crashed no matter what this crazy bridging issue was. It was just a real bad day to be in this business but I appreciate the help that I got from Mikrotik dealers who really care to help resolve this but are as equally frustrated as I was, while aging about 3 years in one day. Like watching a baby sleep the night is uneventful after a 15 hour work day and my with my added worry about taking 4 vacation days this weekend. I wish I could trust the equipment from overreacting to every damn bit of unfriendly traffic by shutting down the LAN port or resetting the radio but I can't, it's my employees problem now but it will certainly take away from the joy of my time off since I know their attitude is more like, 'let them wait' then my feeling of 'people down is lost income', employees What hardware do you run MT on, and what versions of the software are you using? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
If it¹s all bridged then ARP tables fill up, memory runs low, and all kinds of things happen. I know Forbes has mentioned a bridged network on here before. I would put your money into routing the network and then get rid of the mikrotiks if they are still problems after the routing is done. You will be amazed at how much a routed network will improve the quality of the network. There are other things he could try to hunt down, but until all that bridging is stopped it will be an uphill battle. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw Follow me on Twitter Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 01:27:25 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik How my day ended, I really don't mean to slight Mikrotik or it's dealers. People who route their networks will have a fraction of the problems I have but I have to admit the excuse of must be your employees or that never happens got old about 20 outages ago. Today I had 8 major outages, 4 of them we found a bridge or ports erased and the IP displaying 0.0.0.0. This was an easy fix, log in and add the bridge and ports then click on the IP and it came back legitimate again. Shame we had to make the trip to the towers to do that. The other 4 not so easy, they showed the IP correctly but not in Winbox and they had the MAC address as 00.00.00.00.00, well 12 times, you get it. Those we had to pull the backhaul and reset it then reprogram it. A hellish day but we didn't miss the fact that the UBNT units never crashed no matter what this crazy bridging issue was. It was just a real bad day to be in this business but I appreciate the help that I got from Mikrotik dealers who really care to help resolve this but are as equally frustrated as I was, while aging about 3 years in one day. Like watching a baby sleep the night is uneventful after a 15 hour work day and my with my added worry about taking 4 vacation days this weekend. I wish I could trust the equipment from overreacting to every damn bit of unfriendly traffic by shutting down the LAN port or resetting the radio but I can't, it's my employees problem now but it will certainly take away from the joy of my time off since I know their attitude is more like, 'let them wait' then my feeling of 'people down is lost income', employees Forbes On 9/16/2010 7:44 PM, RickG wrote: For me, the StarOS/WRAP combo performed very well since 2004. The only issues I had were coax related. Otherwise, I agree, I dont like equipment you have to put together. I save my tinkering around for personal stuff but much rather have a fully designed radio for commercial purposes. On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net wrote: There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
You know its funny I read these experiences with different types of gear, mind you we have never used Mikrotik for SM's to the customers but we do use them exclusively for other things. However we have similar problems with ANY of the gear we have purchased over the years. Most the most problems we experience are nearly 90% customer related. LIke.. Well yea I unplugged it all and replugged it in and it still don't work I.E the customer plugged the gear in WRONG again.. Or I'm getting all sorts of packet-loss.. I.E the customer had roof work done and never told us so the antenna is out of alignment and or cable was cut and soldered back together. ( We get a lot of that one btw.) And EVEN with a 65.00 trip fee they continue to do stupid crap, its the nature of our business I think.. However my FAVORITE problem of all time and we have had about 9 of these is from customers on Canopy 900 units. It goes.. YOU BLEW UP MY ETHERNET AND OR MOTHERBOARD WITH YOUR GEAR!!! yes somehow we blew up the customers gear even though the SM is setup properly using a Canopy Surge Suppressor and a router between the SM and PC.. We actually had 2 customers try to Sue us over this.. And even though we won, they STILL don't believe that it wasn't us.. Stranger is that they still want to be customers.. BTW all 9 of those ended up with a bad AC line in the house or broken ground and or neutral.. My main point here is that even we the ISP's need to remember that we are dealing with mass produced electronics. Products that are made as cheaply and quickly as possible to feed our customers needs. While some of us may get years of good service from one brand others may only get months or days. To many factors go into why that is.. But in the most basic form, I'll tell you what my instructor told all of us in my DC electronics class nearly 20 years ago.. If its got a circuit board it will break in some manner.. Its only a matter of when. BTW I do know that most config issues where the config is lost and or reset is due to large amounts of static electricity hitting the gear.. Doesn't matter what gear it is.. When a large (static burst) hits the NVRAM on a board it will often erase the config. But thanks for reading.. Just my 2 cents.. Ryan On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 6:18 AM, Jeremy Parr jeremyp...@gmail.com wrote: On 17 September 2010 04:27, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.comwrote: How my day ended, I really don't mean to slight Mikrotik or it's dealers. People who route their networks will have a fraction of the problems I have but I have to admit the excuse of must be your employees or that never happens got old about 20 outages ago. Today I had 8 major outages, 4 of them we found a bridge or ports erased and the IP displaying 0.0.0.0. This was an easy fix, log in and add the bridge and ports then click on the IP and it came back legitimate again. Shame we had to make the trip to the towers to do that. The other 4 not so easy, they showed the IP correctly but not in Winbox and they had the MAC address as 00.00.00.00.00, well 12 times, you get it. Those we had to pull the backhaul and reset it then reprogram it. A hellish day but we didn't miss the fact that the UBNT units never crashed no matter what this crazy bridging issue was. It was just a real bad day to be in this business but I appreciate the help that I got from Mikrotik dealers who really care to help resolve this but are as equally frustrated as I was, while aging about 3 years in one day. Like watching a baby sleep the night is uneventful after a 15 hour work day and my with my added worry about taking 4 vacation days this weekend. I wish I could trust the equipment from overreacting to every damn bit of unfriendly traffic by shutting down the LAN port or resetting the radio but I can't, it's my employees problem now but it will certainly take away from the joy of my time off since I know their attitude is more like, 'let them wait' then my feeling of 'people down is lost income', employees What hardware do you run MT on, and what versions of the software are you using? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ryan Ghering Network Operations - Plains.Net Office: 970-848-0475 - Cell: 970-630-1879 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Forbes, I understand your feelings and I hope your vacation is better than you expect. My recommendation is you have good people they can do it. Have someone hide your laptop and leave your cellphone in your room and go enjoy your vacation. Take an hour at the end of the day and check up on where things are to ease your mind. We will learn ways at MUM to help you out. Maybe you ought to pay a MTik Guru to look over your network layout and help you out. I will have such a guru riding shotgun with me at MUM. He may want to charge you for real support if you get two deep but he will give you some time I am sure on evening. But till then relax if nothing else for the weekend. Steve Barnes RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Servicehttp://www.rcwifi.com/ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Ghering Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 8:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik You know its funny I read these experiences with different types of gear, mind you we have never used Mikrotik for SM's to the customers but we do use them exclusively for other things. However we have similar problems with ANY of the gear we have purchased over the years. Most the most problems we experience are nearly 90% customer related. LIke.. Well yea I unplugged it all and replugged it in and it still don't work I.E the customer plugged the gear in WRONG again.. Or I'm getting all sorts of packet-loss.. I.E the customer had roof work done and never told us so the antenna is out of alignment and or cable was cut and soldered back together. ( We get a lot of that one btw.) And EVEN with a 65.00 trip fee they continue to do stupid crap, its the nature of our business I think.. However my FAVORITE problem of all time and we have had about 9 of these is from customers on Canopy 900 units. It goes.. YOU BLEW UP MY ETHERNET AND OR MOTHERBOARD WITH YOUR GEAR!!! yes somehow we blew up the customers gear even though the SM is setup properly using a Canopy Surge Suppressor and a router between the SM and PC.. We actually had 2 customers try to Sue us over this.. And even though we won, they STILL don't believe that it wasn't us.. Stranger is that they still want to be customers.. BTW all 9 of those ended up with a bad AC line in the house or broken ground and or neutral.. My main point here is that even we the ISP's need to remember that we are dealing with mass produced electronics. Products that are made as cheaply and quickly as possible to feed our customers needs. While some of us may get years of good service from one brand others may only get months or days. To many factors go into why that is.. But in the most basic form, I'll tell you what my instructor told all of us in my DC electronics class nearly 20 years ago.. If its got a circuit board it will break in some manner.. Its only a matter of when. BTW I do know that most config issues where the config is lost and or reset is due to large amounts of static electricity hitting the gear.. Doesn't matter what gear it is.. When a large (static burst) hits the NVRAM on a board it will often erase the config. But thanks for reading.. Just my 2 cents.. Ryan On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 6:18 AM, Jeremy Parr jeremyp...@gmail.commailto:jeremyp...@gmail.com wrote: On 17 September 2010 04:27, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.commailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: How my day ended, I really don't mean to slight Mikrotik or it's dealers. People who route their networks will have a fraction of the problems I have but I have to admit the excuse of must be your employees or that never happens got old about 20 outages ago. Today I had 8 major outages, 4 of them we found a bridge or ports erased and the IP displaying 0.0.0.0. This was an easy fix, log in and add the bridge and ports then click on the IP and it came back legitimate again. Shame we had to make the trip to the towers to do that. The other 4 not so easy, they showed the IP correctly but not in Winbox and they had the MAC address as 00.00.00.00.00, well 12 times, you get it. Those we had to pull the backhaul and reset it then reprogram it. A hellish day but we didn't miss the fact that the UBNT units never crashed no matter what this crazy bridging issue was. It was just a real bad day to be in this business but I appreciate the help that I got from Mikrotik dealers who really care to help resolve this but are as equally frustrated as I was, while aging about 3 years in one day. Like watching a baby sleep the night is uneventful after a 15 hour work day and my with my added worry about taking 4 vacation days this weekend. I wish I could trust the equipment from overreacting to every damn bit of unfriendly traffic by shutting down the LAN port or resetting the radio but I can't, it's my employees problem now but it will certainly take away from the joy of my time off since I know
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
I would have to agree...you could switch to all UBNT, but whose to say they will handle a large bridging network any better? I think before making any kind hardware change, you need to convert the network into a routed environment to control traffic. On 09/17/2010 08:39 AM, Justin Wilson wrote: If it's all bridged then ARP tables fill up, memory runs low, and all kinds of things happen. I know Forbes has mentioned a bridged network on here before. I would put your money into routing the network and *then* get rid of the mikrotiks if they are still problems after the routing is done. You will be amazed at how much a routed network will improve the quality of the network. There are other things he could try to hunt down, but until all that bridging is stopped it will be an uphill battle. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog -- xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw -- Follow me on Twitter Wisp Consulting -- Tower Climbing -- Network Support *From: *Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com *Reply-To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Date: *Fri, 17 Sep 2010 01:27:25 -0700 *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik How my day ended, I really don't mean to slight Mikrotik or it's dealers. People who route their networks will have a fraction of the problems I have but I have to admit the excuse of must be your employees or that never happens got old about 20 outages ago. Today I had 8 major outages, 4 of them we found a bridge or ports erased and the IP displaying 0.0.0.0. This was an easy fix, log in and add the bridge and ports then click on the IP and it came back legitimate again. Shame we had to make the trip to the towers to do that. The other 4 not so easy, they showed the IP correctly but not in Winbox and they had the MAC address as 00.00.00.00.00, well 12 times, you get it. Those we had to pull the backhaul and reset it then reprogram it. A hellish day but we didn't miss the fact that the UBNT units never crashed no matter what this crazy bridging issue was. It was just a real bad day to be in this business but I appreciate the help that I got from Mikrotik dealers who really care to help resolve this but are as equally frustrated as I was, while aging about 3 years in one day. Like watching a baby sleep the night is uneventful after a 15 hour work day and my with my added worry about taking 4 vacation days this weekend. I wish I could trust the equipment from overreacting to every damn bit of unfriendly traffic by shutting down the LAN port or resetting the radio but I can't, it's my employees problem now but it will certainly take away from the joy of my time off since I know their attitude is more like, 'let them wait' then my feeling of 'people down is lost income', employees Forbes On 9/16/2010 7:44 PM, RickG wrote: For me, the StarOS/WRAP combo performed very well since 2004. The only issues I had were coax related. Otherwise, I agree, I dont like equipment you have to put together. I save my tinkering around for personal stuff but much rather have a fully designed radio for commercial purposes. On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net wrote: There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Time to route. I can't imagine having my entire network bridged. We see problem on the same towers between AP's because there is no routing between them. Spend your time re-doing your network to routed. Travis Microserv On 9/17/2010 2:27 AM, Forbes Mercy wrote: How my day ended, I really don't mean to slight Mikrotik or it's dealers. People who route their networks will have a fraction of the problems I have but I have to admit the excuse of must be your employees or that never happens got old about 20 outages ago. Today I had 8 major outages, 4 of them we found a bridge or ports erased and the IP displaying 0.0.0.0. This was an easy fix, log in and add the bridge and ports then click on the IP and it came back legitimate again. Shame we had to make the trip to the towers to do that. The other 4 not so easy, they showed the IP correctly but not in Winbox and they had the MAC address as 00.00.00.00.00, well 12 times, you get it. Those we had to pull the backhaul and reset it then reprogram it. A hellish day but we didn't miss the fact that the UBNT units never crashed no matter what this crazy bridging issue was. It was just a real bad day to be in this business but I appreciate the help that I got from Mikrotik dealers who really care to help resolve this but are as equally frustrated as I was, while aging about 3 years in one day. Like watching a baby sleep the night is uneventful after a 15 hour work day and my with my added worry about taking 4 vacation days this weekend. I wish I could trust the equipment from overreacting to every damn bit of unfriendly traffic by shutting down the LAN port or resetting the radio but I can't, it's my employees problem now but it will certainly take away from the joy of my time off since I know their attitude is more like, 'let them wait' then my feeling of 'people down is lost income', employees Forbes On 9/16/2010 7:44 PM, RickG wrote: For me, the StarOS/WRAP combo performed very well since 2004. The only issues I had were coax related. Otherwise, I agree, I dont like equipment you have to put together. I save my tinkering around for personal stuff but much rather have a fully designed radio for commercial purposes. On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net mailto:markl...@uwol.net wrote: There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
At 9/17/2010 08:52 AM, Bret Clark wrote: I would have to agree...you could switch to all UBNT, but whose to say they will handle a large bridging network any better? I think before making any kind hardware change, you need to convert the network into a routed environment to control traffic. In between bridging and routing, there's switching. This uses VLAN tags or their equivalent (DLCIs, etc.) to identify streams, rather than MAC addresses as in bridging. Switching doesn't propagate broadcasts the way bridging wants to. It's simpler than MPLS, since Cisco didn't develop it ;-) , but does allow the assignment of CIR. The fiber world is doing a lot of Carrier Ethernet switching. The small WISP-oriented routers could too, though I don't know how good the support is yet. They may not have caught on to it. Has anyone tried it on RouterOS or similar OSs? On 09/17/2010 08:39 AM, Justin Wilson wrote: If it's all bridged then ARP tables fill up, memory runs low, and all kinds of things happen. I know Forbes has mentioned a bridged network on here before. I would put your money into routing the network and then get rid of the mikrotiks if they are still problems after the routing is done. You will be amazed at how much a routed network will improve the quality of the network. There are other things he could try to hunt down, but until all that bridging is stopped it will be an uphill battle. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.htmj...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2swhttp://www.twitter.com/j2sw Follow me on Twitter Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.htmforbes.me...@wabroadband.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wirel...@wispa.htmwireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 01:27:25 -0700 To: WISPA General List wirel...@wispa.htmwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik How my day ended, I really don't mean to slight Mikrotik or it's dealers. People who route their networks will have a fraction of the problems I have but I have to admit the excuse of must be your employees or that never happens got old about 20 outages ago. Today I had 8 major outages, 4 of them we found a bridge or ports erased and the IP displaying 0.0.0.0. This was an easy fix, log in and add the bridge and ports then click on the IP and it came back legitimate again. Shame we had to make the trip to the towers to do that. The other 4 not so easy, they showed the IP correctly but not in Winbox and they had the MAC address as 00.00.00.00.00, well 12 times, you get it. Those we had to pull the backhaul and reset it then reprogram it. A hellish day but we didn't miss the fact that the UBNT units never crashed no matter what this crazy bridging issue was. It was just a real bad day to be in this business but I appreciate the help that I got from Mikrotik dealers who really care to help resolve this but are as equally frustrated as I was, while aging about 3 years in one day. Like watching a baby sleep the night is uneventful after a 15 hour work day and my with my added worry about taking 4 vacation days this weekend. I wish I could trust the equipment from overreacting to every damn bit of unfriendly traffic by shutting down the LAN port or resetting the radio but I can't, it's my employees problem now but it will certainly take away from the joy of my time off since I know their attitude is more like, 'let them wait' then my feeling of 'people down is lost income', employees Forbes On 9/16/2010 7:44 PM, RickG wrote: For me, the StarOS/WRAP combo performed very well since 2004. The only issues I had were coax related. Otherwise, I agree, I dont like equipment you have to put together. I save my tinkering around for personal stuff but much rather have a fully designed radio for commercial purposes. On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.htmmarkl...@uwol.net wrote: There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.htmforbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wirel...@wispa.htmwireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
That is the way my network is setup using a cisco router at the core. No problems that I am aware of. Sent from my iPhone4 On Sep 17, 2010, at 8:31 AM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 9/17/2010 08:52 AM, Bret Clark wrote: I would have to agree...you could switch to all UBNT, but whose to say they will handle a large bridging network any better? I think before making any kind hardware change, you need to convert the network into a routed environment to control traffic. In between bridging and routing, there's switching. This uses VLAN tags or their equivalent (DLCIs, etc.) to identify streams, rather than MAC addresses as in bridging. Switching doesn't propagate broadcasts the way bridging wants to. It's simpler than MPLS, since Cisco didn't develop it ;-) , but does allow the assignment of CIR. The fiber world is doing a lot of Carrier Ethernet switching. The small WISP-oriented routers could too, though I don't know how good the support is yet. They may not have caught on to it. Has anyone tried it on RouterOS or similar OSs? On 09/17/2010 08:39 AM, Justin Wilson wrote: If it’s all bridged then ARP tables fill up, memory runs low, and all kinds of things happen. I know Forbes has mentioned a bridged network on here before. I would put your money into routing the network and then get rid of the mikrotiks if they are still problems after the routing is done. You will be amazed at how much a routed network will improve the quality of the network. There are other things he could try to hunt down, but until all that bridging is stopped it will be an uphill battle. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter Wisp Consulting – Tower Climbing – Network Support From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 01:27:25 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik How my day ended, I really don't mean to slight Mikrotik or it's dealers. People who route their networks will have a fraction of the problems I have but I have to admit the excuse of must be your employees or that never happens got old about 20 outages ago. Today I had 8 major outages, 4 of them we found a bridge or ports erased and the IP displaying 0.0.0.0. This was an easy fix, log in and add the bridge and ports then click on the IP and it came back legitimate again. Shame we had to make the trip to the towers to do that. The other 4 not so easy, they showed the IP correctly but not in Winbox and they had the MAC address as 00.00.00.00.00, well 12 times, you get it. Those we had to pull the backhaul and reset it then reprogram it. A hellish day but we didn't miss the fact that the UBNT units never crashed no matter what this crazy bridging issue was. It was just a real bad day to be in this business but I appreciate the help that I got from Mikrotik dealers who really care to help resolve this but are as equally frustrated as I was, while aging about 3 years in one day. Like watching a baby sleep the night is uneventful after a 15 hour work day and my with my added worry about taking 4 vacation days this weekend. I wish I could trust the equipment from overreacting to every damn bit of unfriendly traffic by shutting down the LAN port or resetting the radio but I can't, it's my employees problem now but it will certainly take away from the joy of my time off since I know their attitude is more like, 'let them wait' then my feeling of 'people down is lost income', employees Forbes On 9/16/2010 7:44 PM, RickG wrote: For me, the StarOS/WRAP combo performed very well since 2004. The only issues I had were coax related. Otherwise, I agree, I dont like equipment you have to put together. I save my tinkering around for personal stuff but much rather have a fully designed radio for commercial purposes. On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net wrote: There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 08:39 -0400, Justin Wilson wrote: If it’s all bridged then ARP tables fill up, memory runs low, and all kinds of things happen. I know Forbes has mentioned a bridged network on here before. I would put your money into routing the network and then get rid of the mikrotiks if they are still problems after the routing is done. You will be amazed at how much a routed network will improve the quality of the network. There are other things he could try to hunt down, but until all that bridging is stopped it will be an uphill battle. While I agree that a routed network offers significant benefit, this can be made to work even in a bridged environment. I have one customer with over 2800 clients running on a single bridge WITHOUT issues. It just requires good management of the traffic (bridge filters) and it can work. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
At 9/17/2010 09:36 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: That is the way my network is setup using a cisco router at the core. No problems that I am aware of. Glad to hear it's working. My plan is to put a router at the core and run layer 2 beyond. How flexible is RouterOS for setting up lots of VLANs? I'm thinking of using HWMP+ to automatically create paths (route, but not in the IP layer) them across the network (mesh, in the literal topological sense). Thanks... Sent from my iPhone4 On Sep 17, 2010, at 8:31 AM, Fred Goldstein mailto:fgoldst...@ionary.comfgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 9/17/2010 08:52 AM, Bret Clark wrote: I would have to agree...you could switch to all UBNT, but whose to say they will handle a large bridging network any better? I think before making any kind hardware change, you need to convert the network into a routed environment to control traffic. In between bridging and routing, there's switching. This uses VLAN tags or their equivalent (DLCIs, etc.) to identify streams, rather than MAC addresses as in bridging. Switching doesn't propagate broadcasts the way bridging wants to. It's simpler than MPLS, since Cisco didn't develop it ;-) , but does allow the assignment of CIR. The fiber world is doing a lot of Carrier Ethernet switching. The small WISP-oriented routers could too, though I don't know how good the support is yet. They may not have caught on to it. Has anyone tried it on RouterOS or similar OSs? On 09/17/2010 08:39 AM, Justin Wilson wrote: If itâs all bridged then ARP tables fill up, memory runs low, and all kinds of things happen. I know Forbes has mentioned a bridged network on here before. I would put your money into routing the network and then get rid of the mikrotiks if they are still problems after the routing is done. You will be amazed at how much a routed network will improve the quality of the network. There are other things he could try to hunt down, but until all that bridging is stopped it will be an uphill battle. Justin -- Justin Wilson mailto:j...@mtin.netj...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2swhttp://www.twitter.com/j2sw Follow me on Twitter Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Forbes Mercy mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.comforbes.me...@wabroadband.com Reply-To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.orgwireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 01:27:25 -0700 To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.orgwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik How my day ended, I really don't mean to slight Mikrotik or it's dealers. People who route their networks will have a fraction of the problems I have but I have to admit the excuse of must be your employees or that never happens got old about 20 outages ago. Today I had 8 major outages, 4 of them we found a bridge or ports erased and the IP displaying 0.0.0.0. This was an easy fix, log in and add the bridge and ports then click on the IP and it came back legitimate again. Shame we had to make the trip to the towers to do that. The other 4 not so easy, they showed the IP correctly but not in Winbox and they had the MAC address as 00.00.00.00.00, well 12 times, you get it. Those we had to pull the backhaul and reset it then reprogram it. A hellish day but we didn't miss the fact that the UBNT units never crashed no matter what this crazy bridging issue was. It was just a real bad day to be in this business but I appreciate the help that I got from Mikrotik dealers who really care to help resolve this but are as equally frustrated as I was, while aging about 3 years in one day. Like watching a baby sleep the night is uneventful after a 15 hour work day and my with my added worry about taking 4 vacation days this weekend. I wish I could trust the equipment from overreacting to every damn bit of unfriendly traffic by shutting down the LAN port or resetting the radio but I can't, it's my employees problem now but it will certainly take away from the joy of my time off since I know their attitude is more like, 'let them wait' then my feeling of 'people down is lost income', employees Forbes On 9/16/2010 7:44 PM, RickG wrote: For me, the StarOS/WRAP combo performed very well since 2004. The only issues I had were coax related. Otherwise, I agree, I dont like equipment you have to put together. I save my tinkering around for personal stuff but much rather have a fully designed radio for commercial purposes. On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists mailto:markl...@uwol.netmarkl...@uwol.net wrote: There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:29 -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: Glad to hear it's working. My plan is to put a router at the core and run layer 2 beyond. How flexible is RouterOS for setting up lots of VLANs? VERY flexible. http://blog.butchevans.com/2010/02/to-tag-or-not-to-tag-that-is-the-question/ I'm thinking of using HWMP+ to automatically create paths (route, but not in the IP layer) them across the network (mesh, in the literal topological sense). Thanks... Mikrotik's Mesh is working, but it's not a great solution just yet. Mesh is one of those things that MT also does, if you catch my drift. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Sounds to me like they are not familiar with RouterOS. Mikrotik's RouterOS does just about everything that you can imagine in a layer 2 and layer 3 network device. It does not perform all of these tasks flawlessly, but the platform is more then usable. Just need to watch out for the gotchas. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:29 -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: Glad to hear it's working. My plan is to put a router at the core and run layer 2 beyond. How flexible is RouterOS for setting up lots of VLANs? VERY flexible. http://blog.butchevans.com/2010/02/to-tag-or-not-to-tag-that-is-the-question/ I'm thinking of using HWMP+ to automatically create paths (route, but not in the IP layer) them across the network (mesh, in the literal topological sense). Thanks... Mikrotik's Mesh is working, but it's not a great solution just yet. Mesh is one of those things that MT also does, if you catch my drift. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
At 9/17/2010 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Sounds to me like they are not familiar with RouterOS. Mikrotik's RouterOS does just about everything that you can imagine in a layer 2 and layer 3 network device. It does not perform all of these tasks flawlessly, but the platform is more then usable. Just need to watch out for the gotchas. You're right.. I'm not all that familiar with RouterOS yet. I'm doing the design now and want to make sure that RouterOS can do what I want it to do. Of course there's always OpenWRT or DD-WRT but they don't seem to do as much yet. And RouterOS allows virtualization, so we can presumably test WRT hacks in a virtual partition without bringing down the production net. UBNT has a little CPU too but it just comes with, I think, Kamikaze, and nobody seems to take it seriously. Down on the ground, something bigger like Vyatta should be able to handle all of the real routing load. So I want to take each of the subscriber CPE radios (probably all UBNT) and make each one a VLAN, switched back to the big router that sits near the fiber. This is a little out of the usual route everywhere box. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:29 -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: Glad to hear it's working. My plan is to put a router at the core and run layer 2 beyond. How flexible is RouterOS for setting up lots of VLANs? VERY flexible. http://blog.butchevans.com/2010/02/to-tag-or-not-to-tag-that-is-the-question/ I'm thinking of using HWMP+ to automatically create paths (route, but not in the IP layer) them across the network (mesh, in the literal topological sense). Thanks... Mikrotik's Mesh is working, but it's not a great solution just yet. Mesh is one of those things that MT also does, if you catch my drift. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Several threads have suggests Mikrotik over Vyatta. Cheaper and better. I have not used Vyatta. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 9/17/2010 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Sounds to me like they are not familiar with RouterOS. Mikrotik's RouterOS does just about everything that you can imagine in a layer 2 and layer 3 network device. It does not perform all of these tasks flawlessly, but the platform is more then usable. Just need to watch out for the gotchas. You're right.. I'm not all that familiar with RouterOS yet. I'm doing the design now and want to make sure that RouterOS can do what I want it to do. Of course there's always OpenWRT or DD-WRT but they don't seem to do as much yet. And RouterOS allows virtualization, so we can presumably test WRT hacks in a virtual partition without bringing down the production net. UBNT has a little CPU too but it just comes with, I think, Kamikaze, and nobody seems to take it seriously. Down on the ground, something bigger like Vyatta should be able to handle all of the real routing load. So I want to take each of the subscriber CPE radios (probably all UBNT) and make each one a VLAN, switched back to the big router that sits near the fiber. This is a little out of the usual route everywhere box. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:29 -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: Glad to hear it's working. My plan is to put a router at the core and run layer 2 beyond. How flexible is RouterOS for setting up lots of VLANs? VERY flexible. http://blog.butchevans.com/2010/02/to-tag-or-not-to-tag-that-is-the-question/ I'm thinking of using HWMP+ to automatically create paths (route, but not in the IP layer) them across the network (mesh, in the literal topological sense). Thanks... Mikrotik's Mesh is working, but it's not a great solution just yet. Mesh is one of those things that MT also does, if you catch my drift. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Fred Goldstein k1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Isn't Vyatta for the x86 free? I'm not familiar with OpenWRT, but between dd-WRT and RouterOS it's no contest. RouterOS wins. Greg On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Several threads have suggests Mikrotik over Vyatta. Cheaper and better. I have not used Vyatta. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 9/17/2010 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Sounds to me like they are not familiar with RouterOS. Mikrotik's RouterOS does just about everything that you can imagine in a layer 2 and layer 3 network device. It does not perform all of these tasks flawlessly, but the platform is more then usable. Just need to watch out for the gotchas. You're right.. I'm not all that familiar with RouterOS yet. I'm doing the design now and want to make sure that RouterOS can do what I want it to do. Of course there's always OpenWRT or DD-WRT but they don't seem to do as much yet. And RouterOS allows virtualization, so we can presumably test WRT hacks in a virtual partition without bringing down the production net. UBNT has a little CPU too but it just comes with, I think, Kamikaze, and nobody seems to take it seriously. Down on the ground, something bigger like Vyatta should be able to handle all of the real routing load. So I want to take each of the subscriber CPE radios (probably all UBNT) and make each one a VLAN, switched back to the big router that sits near the fiber. This is a little out of the usual route everywhere box. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:29 -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: Glad to hear it's working. My plan is to put a router at the core and run layer 2 beyond. How flexible is RouterOS for setting up lots of VLANs? VERY flexible. http://blog.butchevans.com/2010/02/to-tag-or-not-to-tag-that-is-the-question/ I'm thinking of using HWMP+ to automatically create paths (route, but not in the IP layer) them across the network (mesh, in the literal topological sense). Thanks... Mikrotik's Mesh is working, but it's not a great solution just yet. Mesh is one of those things that MT also does, if you catch my drift. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
I guess you're right, appears it is free: http://www.vyatta.com/downloads/index.php Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Isn't Vyatta for the x86 free? I'm not familiar with OpenWRT, but between dd-WRT and RouterOS it's no contest. RouterOS wins. Greg On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Several threads have suggests Mikrotik over Vyatta. Cheaper and better. I have not used Vyatta. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 9/17/2010 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Sounds to me like they are not familiar with RouterOS. Mikrotik's RouterOS does just about everything that you can imagine in a layer 2 and layer 3 network device. It does not perform all of these tasks flawlessly, but the platform is more then usable. Just need to watch out for the gotchas. You're right.. I'm not all that familiar with RouterOS yet. I'm doing the design now and want to make sure that RouterOS can do what I want it to do. Of course there's always OpenWRT or DD-WRT but they don't seem to do as much yet. And RouterOS allows virtualization, so we can presumably test WRT hacks in a virtual partition without bringing down the production net. UBNT has a little CPU too but it just comes with, I think, Kamikaze, and nobody seems to take it seriously. Down on the ground, something bigger like Vyatta should be able to handle all of the real routing load. So I want to take each of the subscriber CPE radios (probably all UBNT) and make each one a VLAN, switched back to the big router that sits near the fiber. This is a little out of the usual route everywhere box. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:29 -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: Glad to hear it's working. My plan is to put a router at the core and run layer 2 beyond. How flexible is RouterOS for setting up lots of VLANs? VERY flexible. http://blog.butchevans.com/2010/02/to-tag-or-not-to-tag-that-is-the-question/ I'm thinking of using HWMP+ to automatically create paths (route, but not in the IP layer) them across the network (mesh, in the literal topological sense). Thanks... Mikrotik's Mesh is working, but it's not a great solution just yet. Mesh is one of those things that MT also does, if you catch my drift. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Fred Goldstein k1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
At 9/17/2010 01:51 PM, Greg wrote: Isn't Vyatta for the x86 free? I'm not familiar with OpenWRT, but between dd-WRT and RouterOS it's no contest. RouterOS wins. Vyatta sells prepackaged routers at a much larger size than MikroTik, and should even support 10G Ethernet uplinks. Whether their flavor of Linux does anything to make this possible that RouterOS doesn't, I don't know. It may just be that MT never tried to built on a big multicore server. We'll see... it's all just Linux anyway. OpenWRT is a parallel fork to DD-WRT, both loosely derived from the original WRT sources. They've added different features and don't seem to be all that friendly... your basic Linux fork situation. What I'm still confused about is how RouterOS can be based on Linux yet not have open source code. Where's MT hiding it? Greg On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Several threads have suggests Mikrotik over Vyatta. Cheaper and better. I have not used Vyatta. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 9/17/2010 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Sounds to me like they are not familiar with RouterOS. Mikrotik's RouterOS does just about everything that you can imagine in a layer 2 and layer 3 network device. It does not perform all of these tasks flawlessly, but the platform is more then usable. Just need to watch out for the gotchas. You're right.. I'm not all that familiar with RouterOS yet. I'm doing the design now and want to make sure that RouterOS can do what I want it to do. Of course there's always OpenWRT or DD-WRT but they don't seem to do as much yet. And RouterOS allows virtualization, so we can presumably test WRT hacks in a virtual partition without bringing down the production net. UBNT has a little CPU too but it just comes with, I think, Kamikaze, and nobody seems to take it seriously. Down on the ground, something bigger like Vyatta should be able to handle all of the real routing load. So I want to take each of the subscriber CPE radios (probably all UBNT) and make each one a VLAN, switched back to the big router that sits near the fiber. This is a little out of the usual route everywhere box. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:29 -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: Glad to hear it's working. My plan is to put a router at the core and run layer 2 beyond. How flexible is RouterOS for setting up lots of VLANs? VERY flexible. http://blog.butchevans.com/2010/02/to-tag-or-not-to-tag-that-is-the-question/ I'm thinking of using HWMP+ to automatically create paths (route, but not in the IP layer) them across the network (mesh, in the literal topological sense). Thanks... Mikrotik's Mesh is working, but it's not a great solution just yet. Mesh is one of those things that MT also does, if you catch my drift. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Vyatta has a cool product line. Their open source version is free. They have a paid product that is much more full-featured. They make most of their money from their support contracts. Jeff ImageStream -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 1:54 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I guess you're right, appears it is free: http://www.vyatta.com/downloads/index.php Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Isn't Vyatta for the x86 free? I'm not familiar with OpenWRT, but between dd-WRT and RouterOS it's no contest. RouterOS wins. Greg On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Several threads have suggests Mikrotik over Vyatta. Cheaper and better. I have not used Vyatta. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 9/17/2010 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Sounds to me like they are not familiar with RouterOS. Mikrotik's RouterOS does just about everything that you can imagine in a layer 2 and layer 3 network device. It does not perform all of these tasks flawlessly, but the platform is more then usable. Just need to watch out for the gotchas. You're right.. I'm not all that familiar with RouterOS yet. I'm doing the design now and want to make sure that RouterOS can do what I want it to do. Of course there's always OpenWRT or DD-WRT but they don't seem to do as much yet. And RouterOS allows virtualization, so we can presumably test WRT hacks in a virtual partition without bringing down the production net. UBNT has a little CPU too but it just comes with, I think, Kamikaze, and nobody seems to take it seriously. Down on the ground, something bigger like Vyatta should be able to handle all of the real routing load. So I want to take each of the subscriber CPE radios (probably all UBNT) and make each one a VLAN, switched back to the big router that sits near the fiber. This is a little out of the usual route everywhere box. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:29 -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: Glad to hear it's working. My plan is to put a router at the core and run layer 2 beyond. How flexible is RouterOS for setting up lots of VLANs? VERY flexible. http://blog.butchevans.com/2010/02/to-tag-or-not-to-tag-that-is-the -question/ I'm thinking of using HWMP+ to automatically create paths (route, but not in the IP layer) them across the network (mesh, in the literal topological sense). Thanks... Mikrotik's Mesh is working, but it's not a great solution just yet. Mesh is one of those things that MT also does, if you catch my drift. -- ** ** * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * ** ** --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Fred Goldstein k1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
We use vyatta a great bit - if you want any advice for it - hit me up offlist. Microtik is $$$ vyatta can be - but their opensource is FREE really nice application. On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:55 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote: Vyatta has a cool product line. Their open source version is free. They have a paid product that is much more full-featured. They make most of their money from their support contracts. Jeff ImageStream -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 1:54 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I guess you're right, appears it is free: http://www.vyatta.com/downloads/index.php Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Isn't Vyatta for the x86 free? I'm not familiar with OpenWRT, but between dd-WRT and RouterOS it's no contest. RouterOS wins. Greg On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Several threads have suggests Mikrotik over Vyatta. Cheaper and better. I have not used Vyatta. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 9/17/2010 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Sounds to me like they are not familiar with RouterOS. Mikrotik's RouterOS does just about everything that you can imagine in a layer 2 and layer 3 network device. It does not perform all of these tasks flawlessly, but the platform is more then usable. Just need to watch out for the gotchas. You're right.. I'm not all that familiar with RouterOS yet. I'm doing the design now and want to make sure that RouterOS can do what I want it to do. Of course there's always OpenWRT or DD-WRT but they don't seem to do as much yet. And RouterOS allows virtualization, so we can presumably test WRT hacks in a virtual partition without bringing down the production net. UBNT has a little CPU too but it just comes with, I think, Kamikaze, and nobody seems to take it seriously. Down on the ground, something bigger like Vyatta should be able to handle all of the real routing load. So I want to take each of the subscriber CPE radios (probably all UBNT) and make each one a VLAN, switched back to the big router that sits near the fiber. This is a little out of the usual route everywhere box. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:29 -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: Glad to hear it's working. My plan is to put a router at the core and run layer 2 beyond. How flexible is RouterOS for setting up lots of VLANs? VERY flexible. http://blog.butchevans.com/2010/02/to-tag-or-not-to-tag-that-is-the -question/ I'm thinking of using HWMP+ to automatically create paths (route, but not in the IP layer) them across the network (mesh, in the literal topological sense). Thanks... Mikrotik's Mesh is working, but it's not a great solution just yet. Mesh is one of those things that MT also does, if you catch my drift. -- ** ** * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * ** ** --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 14:22 -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: Vyatta sells prepackaged routers at a much larger size than MikroTik, and should even support 10G Ethernet uplinks I have these for Mikrotik. . Whether their flavor of Linux does anything to make this possible that RouterOS doesn't, I don't know. It may just be that MT never tried to built on a big multicore server. We'll see... it's all just Linux anyway. You are correct in that MT doesn't build anything like this. RouterOS does support some of this hardware, however. What I'm still confused about is how RouterOS can be based on Linux yet not have open source code. Where's MT hiding it? This is a good question. You will get an answer to it if you send the question to supp...@mikrotik.com. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 9/17/2010 01:51 PM, Greg wrote: Isn't Vyatta for the x86 free? There is a DL for it. I'm not familiar with OpenWRT, but between dd-WRT and RouterOS it's no contest. RouterOS wins. Exactly, there is little comparison for ROS and DD-WRT. OpenWRT is comparable as it can do everything MT can do, it just takes a lot more work. DDWRt should be able to but its built tree is so messed up that I do not know if you can even get a x86 version to compile. Vyatta sells prepackaged routers at a much larger size than MikroTik, and should even support 10G Ethernet uplinks. Whether their flavor of Linux does anything to make this possible that RouterOS doesn't, I don't know. It may just be that MT never tried to built on a big multicore server. We'll see... it's all just Linux anyway. Its the glue that makes the products most different. MT's CLI and Winbox do set it above *WRT, and at least on par with Vyatta. OpenWRT is a parallel fork to DD-WRT, both loosely derived from the original WRT sources. They've added different features and don't seem to be all that friendly... your basic Linux fork situation. Do not let them hear you say that. OpenWRT is a true open linux. DD-WRT used to be very closed source and has gone to a closed paid system for atheros based gear (and gateworks iirc). What I'm still confused about is how RouterOS can be based on Linux yet not have open source code. Where's MT hiding it? By claiming that they do not alter the original sources at all. What MT basicly has is the glue of the cli and winbox and paid for atheros driver which is not open source. I'm sure there are some other things in MT that are the same way, BSD licensed or not open source to start with. To comply with the sharing rule they say they do not modify it at all, and provide links in the license doc. Greg On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Several threads have suggests Mikrotik over Vyatta. Cheaper and better. I have not used Vyatta. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 9/17/2010 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Sounds to me like they are not familiar with RouterOS. Mikrotik's RouterOS does just about everything that you can imagine in a layer 2 and layer 3 network device. It does not perform all of these tasks flawlessly, but the platform is more then usable. Just need to watch out for the gotchas. You're right.. I'm not all that familiar with RouterOS yet. I'm doing the design now and want to make sure that RouterOS can do what I want it to do. Of course there's always OpenWRT or DD-WRT but they don't seem to do as much yet. And RouterOS allows virtualization, so we can presumably test WRT hacks in a virtual partition without bringing down the production net. UBNT has a little CPU too but it just comes with, I think, Kamikaze, and nobody seems to take it seriously. Down on the ground, something bigger like Vyatta should be able to handle all of the real routing load. So I want to take each of the subscriber CPE radios (probably all UBNT) and make each one a VLAN, switched back to the big router that sits near the fiber. This is a little out of the usual route everywhere box. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:29 -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: Glad to hear it's working. My plan is to put a router at the core and run layer 2 beyond. How flexible is RouterOS for setting up lots of VLANs? VERY flexible. http://blog.butchevans.com/2010/02/to-tag-or-not-to-tag-that-is-the-question/ I'm thinking of using HWMP+ to automatically create paths (route, but not in the IP layer) them across the network (mesh, in the literal topological sense). Thanks... Mikrotik's Mesh is working, but it's not a great solution just yet. Mesh is one of those things that MT also does, if you catch my drift. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
MTs code is completely closed. --- Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Fred Goldstein Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 1:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik At 9/17/2010 01:51 PM, Greg wrote: Isn't Vyatta for the x86 free? I'm not familiar with OpenWRT, but between dd-WRT and RouterOS it's no contest. RouterOS wins. Vyatta sells prepackaged routers at a much larger size than MikroTik, and should even support 10G Ethernet uplinks. Whether their flavor of Linux does anything to make this possible that RouterOS doesn't, I don't know. It may just be that MT never tried to built on a big multicore server. We'll see... it's all just Linux anyway. OpenWRT is a parallel fork to DD-WRT, both loosely derived from the original WRT sources. They've added different features and don't seem to be all that friendly... your basic Linux fork situation. What I'm still confused about is how RouterOS can be based on Linux yet not have open source code. Where's MT hiding it? Greg On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Several threads have suggests Mikrotik over Vyatta. Cheaper and better. I have not used Vyatta. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 9/17/2010 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Sounds to me like they are not familiar with RouterOS. Mikrotik's RouterOS does just about everything that you can imagine in a layer 2 and layer 3 network device. It does not perform all of these tasks flawlessly, but the platform is more then usable. Just need to watch out for the gotchas. You're right.. I'm not all that familiar with RouterOS yet. I'm doing the design now and want to make sure that RouterOS can do what I want it to do. Of course there's always OpenWRT or DD-WRT but they don't seem to do as much yet. And RouterOS allows virtualization, so we can presumably test WRT hacks in a virtual partition without bringing down the production net. UBNT has a little CPU too but it just comes with, I think, Kamikaze, and nobody seems to take it seriously. Down on the ground, something bigger like Vyatta should be able to handle all of the real routing load. So I want to take each of the subscriber CPE radios (probably all UBNT) and make each one a VLAN, switched back to the big router that sits near the fiber. This is a little out of the usual route everywhere box. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:29 -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: Glad to hear it's working. My plan is to put a router at the core and run layer 2 beyond. How flexible is RouterOS for setting up lots of VLANs? VERY flexible. http://blog.butchevans.com/2010/02/to-tag-or-not-to-tag-that-is-the-qu estion/ I'm thinking of using HWMP+ to automatically create paths (route, but not in the IP layer) them across the network (mesh, in the literal topological sense). Thanks... Mikrotik's Mesh is working, but it's not a great solution just yet. Mesh is one of those things that MT also does, if you catch my drift. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * * *** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Please contact me off-list if you need some larger MT. We also have multi-port 10GigE, but you won't have to run a Bata version. --- Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Fred Goldstein Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 1:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik At 9/17/2010 01:51 PM, Greg wrote: Isn't Vyatta for the x86 free? I'm not familiar with OpenWRT, but between dd-WRT and RouterOS it's no contest. RouterOS wins. Vyatta sells prepackaged routers at a much larger size than MikroTik, and should even support 10G Ethernet uplinks. Whether their flavor of Linux does anything to make this possible that RouterOS doesn't, I don't know. It may just be that MT never tried to built on a big multicore server. We'll see... it's all just Linux anyway. OpenWRT is a parallel fork to DD-WRT, both loosely derived from the original WRT sources. They've added different features and don't seem to be all that friendly... your basic Linux fork situation. What I'm still confused about is how RouterOS can be based on Linux yet not have open source code. Where's MT hiding it? Greg On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Several threads have suggests Mikrotik over Vyatta. Cheaper and better. I have not used Vyatta. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 9/17/2010 12:39 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Sounds to me like they are not familiar with RouterOS. Mikrotik's RouterOS does just about everything that you can imagine in a layer 2 and layer 3 network device. It does not perform all of these tasks flawlessly, but the platform is more then usable. Just need to watch out for the gotchas. You're right.. I'm not all that familiar with RouterOS yet. I'm doing the design now and want to make sure that RouterOS can do what I want it to do. Of course there's always OpenWRT or DD-WRT but they don't seem to do as much yet. And RouterOS allows virtualization, so we can presumably test WRT hacks in a virtual partition without bringing down the production net. UBNT has a little CPU too but it just comes with, I think, Kamikaze, and nobody seems to take it seriously. Down on the ground, something bigger like Vyatta should be able to handle all of the real routing load. So I want to take each of the subscriber CPE radios (probably all UBNT) and make each one a VLAN, switched back to the big router that sits near the fiber. This is a little out of the usual route everywhere box. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:29 -0400, Fred Goldstein wrote: Glad to hear it's working. My plan is to put a router at the core and run layer 2 beyond. How flexible is RouterOS for setting up lots of VLANs? VERY flexible. http://blog.butchevans.com/2010/02/to-tag-or-not-to-tag-that-is-the-qu estion/ I'm thinking of using HWMP+ to automatically create paths (route, but not in the IP layer) them across the network (mesh, in the literal topological sense). Thanks... Mikrotik's Mesh is working, but it's not a great solution just yet. Mesh is one of those things that MT also does, if you catch my drift. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * * *** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
[WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
If it doesn't work for you it doesn't work, no need to try and fix it if Ubiquiti works. Though I am curious to know how it lost its configuration as I have only seen that on two occurrences, on an rb153 and rb532 (which are pretty old). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Can't say I've seen that yet, but we have newer Mikrotiks...Of course the bigger question is what happens if you do make that change and your problem doesn't go away?. On 09/16/2010 02:16 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: If it doesn't work for you it doesn't work, no need to try and fix it if Ubiquiti works. Though I am curious to know how it lost its configuration as I have only seen that on two occurrences, on an rb153 and rb532 (which are pretty old). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com wrote: I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
At one point we had about 1300 MikroTiks in the field. I never had this problem. I switched off of MikroTik to go to Canopy, but use MikroTik for all my Routing, some backhauls, and at the base of every tower. I've had 112's, 532's, 133's, 600's, 800's 411's, etc. I have seen it drop the config during a few beta upgrades back in 3.0...but not since. Regards, Chuck On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.netwrote: There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
To clarify I'm sure mine were 2.9.50 or 2.9.51. I never upgraded a 1xx or 5xx to 3.0+. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: At one point we had about 1300 MikroTiks in the field. I never had this problem. I switched off of MikroTik to go to Canopy, but use MikroTik for all my Routing, some backhauls, and at the base of every tower. I've had 112's, 532's, 133's, 600's, 800's 411's, etc. I have seen it drop the config during a few beta upgrades back in 3.0...but not since. Regards, Chuck On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net wrote: There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
We will, however, continue to use Mikrotik for ethernet routers. Thought that was fair to say. We don't like the build-it-yourself WIRELESS devices... - Original Message - From: Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Not a fan of that myself as well. I have had good success with the APs - just make sure you have a set of boxes ready to replace. I use a pole with two pipe to pipe clamps and on the pipe use the sector and enclosure. Bit heavier on the installation day but replacements are pretty easy. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: We will, however, continue to use Mikrotik for ethernet routers. Thought that was fair to say. We don't like the build-it-yourself WIRELESS devices... - Original Message - From: Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
YMMV. I've had near flawless performance from my Mikrotik systems. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/16/2010 1:04 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Also, to be fair, I've never had a problem with Mikrotik because I have never used Mikrotik radios (neither CPE or AP). We've had StarOS. So, while my frustration comes from StarOS wireless devices, I lump Mikrotik in with them because of the build-them-yourself nature of them. We actually LOVE the StarOS software, and Mikrotik is even more feature-rich. Just don't want to have to put up with the hardware and touchy installation of that hardware. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik YMMV. I've had near flawless performance from my Mikrotik systems. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/16/2010 1:04 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Keep in mind that there are builders out there that are WISPA members, which should be able to build your MT boards correctly. They can FCC Certify MT gear as well and deliver a product that is just like UBNT if you wish. Please contact me off-list if you are interested in this type of service. We send out hundreds of radios built/tested/upgraded etc! Some send us a default configuration and we even load it up like that. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 2:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik Also, to be fair, I've never had a problem with Mikrotik because I have never used Mikrotik radios (neither CPE or AP). We've had StarOS. So, while my frustration comes from StarOS wireless devices, I lump Mikrotik in with them because of the build-them-yourself nature of them. We actually LOVE the StarOS software, and Mikrotik is even more feature-rich. Just don't want to have to put up with the hardware and touchy installation of that hardware. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik YMMV. I've had near flawless performance from my Mikrotik systems. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/16/2010 1:04 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
There are many vendors offering built CPEs and APs based on MT hardware. They don't have to build-it-yourself just because MT doesn't do the packaging. On 9/16/2010 3:23 PM, Mark Nash wrote: Also, to be fair, I've never had a problem with Mikrotik because I have never used Mikrotik radios (neither CPE or AP). We've had StarOS. So, while my frustration comes from StarOS wireless devices, I lump Mikrotik in with them because of the build-them-yourself nature of them. We actually LOVE the StarOS software, and Mikrotik is even more feature-rich. Just don't want to have to put up with the hardware and touchy installation of that hardware. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik YMMV. I've had near flawless performance from my Mikrotik systems. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/16/2010 1:04 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Agreed. You're going to find MT products that suit your needs. UBNT is getting my business these days because of 2 things... cost trust. They've made a huge impact on the WISP business, no denying that. They've done it by creating a product that can be trusted at a good price point. Quality control from a reputable, proven company is important to me, more important than features. This was an ideal that made me want to go to Trangos everywhere even though they were more expensive. I didn't want to pay Trango pricing, but I have realized that there is, by and large, a cost to cheap. Now, enter UBNT, a manufacturer who has invested in their business enough to develop processes that lower the manufacturing costs while maintaining a reasonable quality. I hope this pays off... We all gamble with our money, don't we? The need to drive cost down is a giant weight around our necks. Those who gamble with someone else's money use Moto or Trango in my experience. I know of a WISP who has about 800 customers using Trango gear and they only have about 2 service calls a month. I say to myself that would be nice. But then I say to myself for 5 years now I've paid for absolutely EVERYTHING out of my checking account...my money. That WISP with 800 users 2 service calls per month...owes more money than they're worth. - Original Message - From: Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik There are many vendors offering built CPEs and APs based on MT hardware. They don't have to build-it-yourself just because MT doesn't do the packaging. On 9/16/2010 3:23 PM, Mark Nash wrote: Also, to be fair, I've never had a problem with Mikrotik because I have never used Mikrotik radios (neither CPE or AP). We've had StarOS. So, while my frustration comes from StarOS wireless devices, I lump Mikrotik in with them because of the build-them-yourself nature of them. We actually LOVE the StarOS software, and Mikrotik is even more feature-rich. Just don't want to have to put up with the hardware and touchy installation of that hardware. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik YMMV. I've had near flawless performance from my Mikrotik systems. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/16/2010 1:04 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote: I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Same here. I think we had up to 1500 MT radios in the field. No higher failure rate or issues than any other product (Trango, Canopy, etc.). Travis Microserv On 9/16/2010 12:39 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: At one point we had about 1300 MikroTiks in the field. I never had this problem. I switched off of MikroTik to go to Canopy, but use MikroTik for all my Routing, some backhauls, and at the base of every tower. I've had 112's, 532's, 133's, 600's, 800's 411's, etc. I have seen it drop the config during a few beta upgrades back in 3.0...but not since. Regards, Chuck On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net mailto:markl...@uwol.net wrote: There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
I hear ya, my brother. No flaming here. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 2:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
While I have more Mikrotik then Canopy, I have had several ethernet ports blown on Mikrotik and I have zero failure with Canopy, though less then a hundred deployed. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Same here. I think we had up to 1500 MT radios in the field. No higher failure rate or issues than any other product (Trango, Canopy, etc.). Travis Microserv On 9/16/2010 12:39 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: At one point we had about 1300 MikroTiks in the field. I never had this problem. I switched off of MikroTik to go to Canopy, but use MikroTik for all my Routing, some backhauls, and at the base of every tower. I've had 112's, 532's, 133's, 600's, 800's 411's, etc. I have seen it drop the config during a few beta upgrades back in 3.0...but not since. Regards, Chuck On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net wrote: There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
I don't use the SS's, but we've probably blown 10 ethernet ports this year on Canopy...out of almost roughly 700. Regards, Chuck On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: While I have more Mikrotik then Canopy, I have had several ethernet ports blown on Mikrotik and I have zero failure with Canopy, though less then a hundred deployed. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Same here. I think we had up to 1500 MT radios in the field. No higher failure rate or issues than any other product (Trango, Canopy, etc.). Travis Microserv On 9/16/2010 12:39 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: At one point we had about 1300 MikroTiks in the field. I never had this problem. I switched off of MikroTik to go to Canopy, but use MikroTik for all my Routing, some backhauls, and at the base of every tower. I've had 112's, 532's, 133's, 600's, 800's 411's, etc. I have seen it drop the config during a few beta upgrades back in 3.0...but not since. Regards, Chuck On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net wrote: There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
Make me a good deal on the Mikrotiks. On 9/16/2010 11:04 AM, Forbes Mercy wrote: I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
I've had or our WISP customers have had dead radios from Alvarion to Zecomax over the years and really, really expensive ones like Bridgewave, Ceragon, Dragonwave. So far I haven't found a bullet proof electronic device yet. All of them have there problems. I just can't afford to spend $20K to light up a tower with the new Alvarion WiMAX and do $100 installs to wait 4 years for ROI. I also can't afford to use cheap junk, loose custs, and have a fleet of vans for service calls. I need the best I can get for what I can afford. We've lost a few ethernet ports and receivers over the years but I still have to go with Mikrotik on cost/quality/features. I tried a rocket link to a new tower we just lit up in Potosi MO. It ran great with low latency and high throughput for about 3 weeks. I plunged head first into a rock. Now the tower is running on the backup MT link. I can see the the rocket in the MT neighbor list but can't ping, ssh, telnet, or even mac-telnet into it. It's almost 1-1/2hr drive, 65 miles as a crow flies, 9 hops, and 9ms as a packet flies across the Mikrotik network to get to that tower. Guess I'll just let the MT run for now until I get a round tuit. #This is actual client traffic no bandwidth tests or file transfers when I ran the tracert. [ad...@wifimw Core] tool torch interface=ether2 TX RX TX-PACKETS RX-PACKETS 20.4Mbps 2.4Mbps2225 1398 [ad...@wifimw Core] tool traceroute 10.0.40.1 ADDRESSSTATUS 1 10.251.0.2 2ms 1ms 1ms 2 10.251.0.10 2ms 5ms 1ms 3 10.251.0.22 5ms 4ms 4ms 4 10.50.1.5 4ms 5ms 3ms 5 10.0.97.21 7ms 4ms 3ms 6 10.252.0.10 6ms 9ms 8ms 7 10.0.30.51 9ms 5ms 7ms 8 10.0.36.2 8ms 11ms 5ms 9 10.0.40.1 9ms 8ms 7ms Jim Patient Cell: 314-565-6863 Desk: 636-692-4200 YIM: jeffcosoho www.wlan1.com www.linktechs.net www.wifimidwest.com On 9/16/2010 6:48 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: I don't use the SS's, but we've probably blown 10 ethernet ports this year on Canopy...out of almost roughly 700. Regards, Chuck On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: While I have more Mikrotik then Canopy, I have had several ethernet ports blown on Mikrotik and I have zero failure with Canopy, though less then a hundred deployed. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net wrote: Same here. I think we had up to 1500 MT radios in the field. No higher failure rate or issues than any other product (Trango, Canopy, etc.). Travis Microserv On 9/16/2010 12:39 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: At one point we had about 1300 MikroTiks in the field. I never had this problem. I switched off of MikroTik to go to Canopy, but use MikroTik for all my Routing, some backhauls, and at the base of every tower. I've had 112's, 532's, 133's, 600's, 800's 411's, etc. I have seen it drop the config during a few beta upgrades back in 3.0...but not since. Regards, Chuck On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net mailto:markl...@uwol.net wrote: There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com mailto:forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik
Re: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik
For me, the StarOS/WRAP combo performed very well since 2004. The only issues I had were coax related. Otherwise, I agree, I dont like equipment you have to put together. I save my tinkering around for personal stuff but much rather have a fully designed radio for commercial purposes. On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.netwrote: There's something to be said for losing faith in a technology. For me, it's the build-it-yourself radios. All of them. Mikrotik StarOS. For me, I see such a high service call rate for repairs, the need to put in redundant backhauls sooner than later because we can almost guarantee something's going to malfunction. Ubiquiti has brought to us good enough pricing to have us make the leap of faith and hopefully their product is more stable over time, keeping much of the success or failure of a unit out of the hands of the installer. - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 AM Subject: [WISPA] I'm pulling Mikrotik I have about 30 seconds to leave this, I'm going to pull every Mikrotik I have, that's about 30 radios and replace them with UBNIT. I'm sick and tired of spending all last night because two radios just dropped their IP setting to 0.0.0.0 and the other MAC to 0.0.0.0, today another system storm crash, what stayed up, my two Ubiquiti towers. You can say what you want but I have daily outages, we never find the cause and I'm sick of it... flame away I don't care I'm just sick of Mikrotik. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
