RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Chuck Enfield]

Even with this design, my understanding is that Cisco recommends 100Mhz 
between channels on an AP.  I assume that’s center frequency separation with 
40Mhz channels (20Mhz channels shouldn’t need that much and 80Mhz channels 
would require considerably more), but I didn’t ask.



Chuck



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:50 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?



In the Cisco 3800 dual-radio design, while the fixed 5Ghz radio is omni in 
azimuth, the XOR radio when running in 5Ghz is directional – this is one of 
the mitigation techniques mentioned in the 7signal video. The directional 
(micro cell) is supporting the high-bandwidth multi-spatial 11ac clients 
under it, and the one spatial 11ac, legacy, etc. clients can be pushed to 
the omni (macro cell).



At the end of the day, I think the XOR (flex) radio is fantastic investment 
protection. Instead of having to deal with (and waste a lot of time on) 2.4 
overpopulation and unused radios, you gain a huge amount of flexibility.



I’ve got a new residence hall coming online in a few weeks that will be 
equipped with about 100 of the new Cisco 3800-series (and multi-gig) so I’ll 
no doubt have a bit of real-world data to share.



Jeff



From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of Kees Pronk 
<cl.pr...@avans.nl>
Reply-To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Date: Thursday, June 30, 2016 at 5:23 AM
To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?



All,



Little kick at the discussion from a while ago:

There is a YouTube video now from 7signal in which dual 5GHz radio setup is 
discussed:  <https://youtu.be/6eueR3PYXlA> https://youtu.be/6eueR3PYXlA 
(from 11:30 in the video). Pretty interesting!



BR, Kees



Van: Kees Pronk
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 13:45
Aan: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Onderwerp: RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?



Hi Chris,



“you could in theory double the airtime available”



I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few 
vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.



Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors 
marketing pages, but how about :

Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels 
plans (need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable DFS 
channels on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What about 
the 2 radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at the 
same time.



Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this

1.  Innovation

2.  Marketing gimmick

(pick one ;-)



Best regards, Kees



Van: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Namens Larry Dougher
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11
Aan:  <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Onderwerp: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?



Thanks Chris!




Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
 <http://its.wsesu.net> Information Technology Services
 <http://wsesu.net> Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
 <mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net> Email |  <http://goo.gl/gEAdt> Google+ | 
<http://twitter.com/larrydougher> Twitter | 
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> LinkedIn | 802.674.8336



On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Chris Adams (IT) < 
<mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu> chris.ad...@ung.edu> wrote:

Larry,



We have deployed 802.11ac WAPs in many locations, but only have 80mhz 
channels enabled sparingly around campus. My hope is that by having the SDR 
option, we could configure 2x 5ghz radios with either 20Mhz or 40Mhz 
channels, logically operating as 2 WAPs. Our wireless use case is primarily 
for internet access – we just don’t have a need for true wave1/2 802.11ac 
throughputs at this time.



To see true Wave2 throughputs, I believe the client WNIC would need to be 
upgraded. If we could operate 2 “logical” 5ghz WAPs from a single unit for a 
small increase in price, I think this is where our greatest benefit would be 
at this time as you could in theory double the airtime available.



This is based on several assumptions I am making – I have not gotten my 
hands on the new AP250 yet but I am actively looking to do so.



 
<http://boundless.aerohive.com/blog/Designing-WLANS-What-If-we-could-double-our-airtime-at-5-GHz.html>http://boundless.aer

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Jeffrey D. Sessler]

In the Cisco 3800 dual-radio design, while the fixed 5Ghz radio is omni in 
azimuth, the XOR radio when running in 5Ghz is directional – this is one of the 
mitigation techniques mentioned in the 7signal video. The directional (micro 
cell) is supporting the high-bandwidth multi-spatial 11ac clients under it, and 
the one spatial 11ac, legacy, etc. clients can be pushed to the omni (macro 
cell).

At the end of the day, I think the XOR (flex) radio is fantastic investment 
protection. Instead of having to deal with (and waste a lot of time on) 2.4 
overpopulation and unused radios, you gain a huge amount of flexibility.

I’ve got a new residence hall coming online in a few weeks that will be 
equipped with about 100 of the new Cisco 3800-series (and multi-gig) so I’ll no 
doubt have a bit of real-world data to share.

Jeff

From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
on behalf of Kees Pronk <cl.pr...@avans.nl>
Reply-To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Date: Thursday, June 30, 2016 at 5:23 AM
To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

All,

Little kick at the discussion from a while ago:
There is a YouTube video now from 7signal in which dual 5GHz radio setup is 
discussed: https://youtu.be/6eueR3PYXlA (from 11:30 in the video). Pretty 
interesting!

BR, Kees

Van: Kees Pronk
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 13:45
Aan: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Onderwerp: RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Hi Chris,

“you could in theory double the airtime available”

I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few 
vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.

Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors marketing 
pages, but how about :
Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels plans 
(need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable DFS channels 
on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What about the 2 
radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at the same time.

Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this

1.  Innovation

2.  Marketing gimmick
(pick one ;-)

Best regards, Kees

Van: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Namens Larry Dougher
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11
Aan: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Onderwerp: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Thanks Chris!


Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services<http://its.wsesu.net>
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union<http://wsesu.net>
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email<mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net> | Google+<http://goo.gl/gEAdt> | 
Twitter<http://twitter.com/larrydougher> | 
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> | 802.674.8336

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Chris Adams (IT) 
<chris.ad...@ung.edu<mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu>> wrote:
Larry,

We have deployed 802.11ac WAPs in many locations, but only have 80mhz channels 
enabled sparingly around campus. My hope is that by having the SDR option, we 
could configure 2x 5ghz radios with either 20Mhz or 40Mhz channels, logically 
operating as 2 WAPs. Our wireless use case is primarily for internet access – 
we just don’t have a need for true wave1/2 802.11ac throughputs at this time.

To see true Wave2 throughputs, I believe the client WNIC would need to be 
upgraded. If we could operate 2 “logical” 5ghz WAPs from a single unit for a 
small increase in price, I think this is where our greatest benefit would be at 
this time as you could in theory double the airtime available.

This is based on several assumptions I am making – I have not gotten my hands 
on the new AP250 yet but I am actively looking to do so.

http://boundless.aerohive.com/blog/Designing-WLANS-What-If-we-could-double-our-airtime-at-5-GHz.html


Thanks,

Chris Adams

Director, Network & Telecom Services
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>]
 On Behalf Of Larry Dougher
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 2:28 PM

To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Chris,

I have a question about the AP250, but may be a question about MU-MIMO more 
generally.  So, all things being equal, would a 5Ghz 802.11ac device/client see 
any benefit from a Wave 2 AP or would that device/client have to have an 
upgraded/new 802.11a

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Chuck Enfield]

I just got some feedback that I should probably finish this thought.



So, this means we need about 60 dB of isolation between the two radios.  If 
you’re using traditional omni antennas, the only way to get that is by 
channel separation. To be honest, I don’t know how much separation is 
required to get 60 dB of isolation, but based on the 802.11 OFDM spectral 
masks I’ve seen it’s going to be greater than 30MHz, suggesting you’ll need 
at least two unused 20MHz channels between the channels used on the two 
radios.  It’s definitely achievable, but given the available spectrum you 
won’t be able to do it on lots of APs in close proximity.  It will be a 
niche thing until more spectrum is available.



From: Chuck Enfield [mailto:chu...@psu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 9:13 AM
To: EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?



Note: Don't take these numbers too literally.  They're intended solely to 
provide an estimated magnitude of the challenge



The issue is how much the signal power must be reduced to overcome this 
problem.  The difference in free space loss between two antennae in the same 
AP (lets assume 6 inches) and a nearby client radio (let's assume 16 feet) 
is roughly 30 dB.  So, if you want -65dBm at the client radio, you'll have 
about -35dBm at the other 5GHz antenna.



Chuck Enfield

Manager, Wireless Systems & Engineering

Telecommunications & Networking Services

The Pennsylvania State University

110H, USB2, UP, PA 16802

ph: 814.863.8715

fx: 814.865.3988



  _

From: "Phillippe Hanset" <phan...@anyroam.net>
To: "EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 9:01:12 AM
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?



Quite interesting. Thank you. While listening to the explanation of 
attenuation related to the proximity of the two radios

within a same AP I thought “Bad for sensors, but isn’t it what we actually 
want in high density deployment like an auditorium?”.

So, maybe running two radios withing one AP at 5 GHz in an auditorium would 
reduce the signal and accomplish the small cells pattern that we want.

Just thinking out loud here! Has someone tried this?



Philippe



Philippe Hanset
www.anyroam.net <http://www.anyroam.net>
www.eduroam.us

GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C








On Jun 30, 2016, at 8:23 AM, Kees Pronk <cl.pr...@avans.nl 
<mailto:cl.pr...@avans.nl> > wrote:



All,



Little kick at the discussion from a while ago:

There is a YouTube video now from 7signal in which dual 5GHz radio setup is 
discussed:  <https://youtu.be/6eueR3PYXlA> https://youtu.be/6eueR3PYXlA 
(from 11:30 in the video). Pretty interesting!



BR, Kees



Van: Kees Pronk
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 13:45
Aan:  <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu> 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Onderwerp: RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?



Hi Chris,



“you could in theory double the airtime available”



I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few 
vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.



Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors 
marketing pages, but how about :

Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels 
plans (need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable DFS 
channels on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What about 
the 2 radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at the 
same time.



Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this

1.   Innovation

2.   Marketing gimmick

(pick one ;-)



Best regards, Kees



Van: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Namens Larry Dougher
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11
Aan:  <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Onderwerp: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?



Thanks Chris!




Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
 <http://its.wsesu.net/> Information Technology Services
 <http://wsesu.net/> Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
 <mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net> Email |  <http://goo.gl/gEAdt> Google+ | 
<http://twitter.com/larrydougher> Twitter | 
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> LinkedIn | 802.674.8336



On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Chris Adams (IT) < 
<mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu> chris.ad...@ung.edu> wrote:

Larry,



We have deployed 802.11ac WAPs in many locations, but only have 80mhz 
channels enabled sparingly around campus. My hope is that by having the SDR 
option, w

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Chuck Enfield]

Note: Don't take these numbers too literally. They're intended solely to 
provide an estimated magnitude of the challenge 

The issue is how much the signal power must be reduced to overcome this 
problem. The difference in free space loss between two antennae in the same AP 
(lets assume 6 inches) and a nearby client radio (let's assume 16 feet) is 
roughly 30 dB. So, if you want -65dBm at the client radio, you'll have about 
-35dBm at the other 5GHz antenna. 



Chuck Enfield 

Manager, Wireless Systems & Engineering 

Telecommunications & Networking Services 

The Pennsylvania State University 

110H, USB2, UP, PA 16802 

ph: 814.863.8715 

fx: 814.865.3988 



From: "Phillippe Hanset" <phan...@anyroam.net> 
To: "EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 9:01:12 AM 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID? 

Quite interesting. Thank you. While listening to the explanation of attenuation 
related to the proximity of the two radios 
within a same AP I thought “Bad for sensors, but isn’t it what we actually want 
in high density deployment like an auditorium?”. 
So, maybe running two radios withing one AP at 5 GHz in an auditorium would 
reduce the signal and accomplish the small cells pattern that we want. 
Just thinking out loud here! Has someone tried this? 

Philippe 

Philippe Hanset 
www.anyroam.net 
www.eduroam.us 

GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C 









On Jun 30, 2016, at 8:23 AM, Kees Pronk < cl.pr...@avans.nl > wrote: 

All, 
Little kick at the discussion from a while ago: 
There is a YouTube video now from 7signal in which dual 5GHz radio setup is 
discussed: https://youtu.be/6eueR3PYXlA (from 11:30 in the video). Pretty 
interesting! 
BR, Kees 
Van: Kees Pronk 
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 13:45 
Aan: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Onderwerp: RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID? 
Hi Chris, 
“you could in theory double the airtime available” 
I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few 
vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this. 
Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors marketing 
pages, but how about : 
Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels plans 
(need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable DFS channels 
on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What about the 2 
radio’s ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at the same time. 
Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this 
1. Innovation 
2. Marketing gimmick 
(pick one ;-) 
Best regards, Kees 
Van: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU ] Namens Larry Dougher 
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11 
Aan: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Onderwerp: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID? 
Thanks Chris! 



Larry Dougher 
Chief Information Officer 
Information Technology Services 
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union 
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089 
Email | Google+ | Twitter | LinkedIn | 802.674.8336 
On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Chris Adams (IT) < chris.ad...@ung.edu > wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

Larry, 
We have deployed 802.11ac WAPs in many locations, but only have 80mhz channels 
enabled sparingly around campus. My hope is that by having the SDR option, we 
could configure 2x 5ghz radios with either 20Mhz or 40Mhz channels, logically 
operating as 2 WAPs. Our wireless use case is primarily for internet access – 
we just don’t have a need for true wave1/2 802.11ac throughputs at this time. 
To see true Wave2 throughputs, I believe the client WNIC would need to be 
upgraded. If we could operate 2 “logical” 5ghz WAPs from a single unit for a 
small increase in price, I think this is where our greatest benefit would be at 
this time as you could in theory double the airtime available. 
This is based on several assumptions I am making – I have not gotten my hands 
on the new AP250 yet but I am actively looking to do so. 
http://boundless.aerohive.com/blog/Designing-WLANS-What-If-we-could-double-our-airtime-at-5-GHz.html
 
Thanks, 
Chris Adams 
Director, Network & Telecom Services 
Division of Information Technology 
University of North Georgia 
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU ] On Behalf Of Larry Dougher 
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 2:28 PM 

To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID? 
Chris, 
I have a question about the AP250, but may be a question about MU-MIMO more 
generally. So, all things being equal, would a 5Ghz 802.11ac device/client see 
any benefit from a Wave 2 AP or would that device/client have to have an 
upgraded/new 802.11ac 5Ghz Wave 2 chip to see a benefit? 
Thanks, 

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Philippe Hanset]

Quite interesting. Thank you. While listening to the explanation of attenuation 
related to the proximity of the two radios
within a same AP I thought “Bad for sensors, but isn’t it what we actually want 
in high density deployment like an auditorium?”.
So, maybe running two radios withing one AP at 5 GHz in an auditorium would 
reduce the signal and accomplish the small cells pattern that we want.
Just thinking out loud here! Has someone tried this?

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
www.anyroam.net
www.eduroam.us

GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C






> On Jun 30, 2016, at 8:23 AM, Kees Pronk <cl.pr...@avans.nl> wrote:
> 
> All,
>  
> Little kick at the discussion from a while ago:
> There is a YouTube video now from 7signal in which dual 5GHz radio setup is 
> discussed: https://youtu.be/6eueR3PYXlA <https://youtu.be/6eueR3PYXlA> (from 
> 11:30 in the video). Pretty interesting!
>  
> BR, Kees
>  
> Van: Kees Pronk 
> Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 13:45
> Aan: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
> Onderwerp: RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>  
> Hi Chris,
>  
> “you could in theory double the airtime available”
>  
> I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few 
> vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.
>  
> Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors 
> marketing pages, but how about :
> Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels plans 
> (need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable DFS 
> channels on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What about 
> the 2 radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at the 
> same time.
>  
> Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this
> 1.   Innovation
> 2.   Marketing gimmick
> (pick one ;-)
>  
> Best regards, Kees
>  
> Van: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] Namens Larry Dougher
> Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11
> Aan: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
> Onderwerp: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>  
> Thanks Chris!
> 
> Larry Dougher
> Chief Information Officer
> Information Technology Services <http://its.wsesu.net/>
> Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union <http://wsesu.net/>
> 127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
> Email <mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net> | Google+ <http://goo.gl/gEAdt> | Twitter 
> <http://twitter.com/larrydougher> | LinkedIn 
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> | 802.674.8336
> 
>  
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Chris Adams (IT) <chris.ad...@ung.edu 
> <mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu>> wrote:
> Larry,
>  
> We have deployed 802.11ac WAPs in many locations, but only have 80mhz 
> channels enabled sparingly around campus. My hope is that by having the SDR 
> option, we could configure 2x 5ghz radios with either 20Mhz or 40Mhz 
> channels, logically operating as 2 WAPs. Our wireless use case is primarily 
> for internet access – we just don’t have a need for true wave1/2 802.11ac 
> throughputs at this time.
>  
> To see true Wave2 throughputs, I believe the client WNIC would need to be 
> upgraded. If we could operate 2 “logical” 5ghz WAPs from a single unit for a 
> small increase in price, I think this is where our greatest benefit would be 
> at this time as you could in theory double the airtime available.
>  
> This is based on several assumptions I am making – I have not gotten my hands 
> on the new AP250 yet but I am actively looking to do so.
>  
> http://boundless.aerohive.com/blog/Designing-WLANS-What-If-we-could-double-our-airtime-at-5-GHz.html
>  
> <http://boundless.aerohive.com/blog/Designing-WLANS-What-If-we-could-double-our-airtime-at-5-GHz.html>
>  
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Chris Adams
>  
> Director, Network & Telecom Services
> Division of Information Technology
> University of North Georgia
>  
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] On Behalf Of Larry Dougher
> Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 2:28 PM
> 
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>  
> Chris,
>  
> I have a question about the AP250, but may be a question about MU-MIMO more 
> generally.  So, all things

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Chris Adams (IT)]

Kees,

 

Thank you for sharing. FYI, our first order of Aerohive AP250s is shipping now 
so I hope to be able to provide some “real world” experience with them soon. We 
will be deploying a number of them in auditoriums with high seat counts where 
we’ve wanted to increase density yet again.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Chris Adams, CISSP

 

Director, Network & Telecom Services

Division of Information Technology

University of North Georgia

E-Mail:  <mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu> chris.ad...@ung.edu | Office: (706) 
867-2891

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kees Pronk
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 8:23 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

 

All,

 

Little kick at the discussion from a while ago:

There is a YouTube video now from 7signal in which dual 5GHz radio setup is 
discussed: https://youtu.be/6eueR3PYXlA (from 11:30 in the video). Pretty 
interesting!

 

BR, Kees

 

Van: Kees Pronk 
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 13:45
Aan: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
Onderwerp: RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

 

Hi Chris,

 

“you could in theory double the airtime available”

 

I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few 
vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.

 

Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors marketing 
pages, but how about :

Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels plans 
(need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable DFS channels 
on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What about the 2 
radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at the same time.

 

Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this

1.   Innovation

2.   Marketing gimmick

(pick one ;-)

 

Best regards, Kees

 

Van: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Namens Larry Dougher
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11
Aan: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
Onderwerp: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

 

Thanks Chris!




Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services <http://its.wsesu.net> 
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union <http://wsesu.net> 
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email <mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net>  | Google+ <http://goo.gl/gEAdt>  | Twitter 
<http://twitter.com/larrydougher>  | LinkedIn 
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher>  | 802.674.8336

 

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Chris Adams (IT) <chris.ad...@ung.edu 
<mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu> > wrote:

Larry,

 

We have deployed 802.11ac WAPs in many locations, but only have 80mhz channels 
enabled sparingly around campus. My hope is that by having the SDR option, we 
could configure 2x 5ghz radios with either 20Mhz or 40Mhz channels, logically 
operating as 2 WAPs. Our wireless use case is primarily for internet access – 
we just don’t have a need for true wave1/2 802.11ac throughputs at this time.

 

To see true Wave2 throughputs, I believe the client WNIC would need to be 
upgraded. If we could operate 2 “logical” 5ghz WAPs from a single unit for a 
small increase in price, I think this is where our greatest benefit would be at 
this time as you could in theory double the airtime available.

 

This is based on several assumptions I am making – I have not gotten my hands 
on the new AP250 yet but I am actively looking to do so.

 

http://boundless.aerohive.com/blog/Designing-WLANS-What-If-we-could-double-our-airtime-at-5-GHz.html

 

 

Thanks,

 

Chris Adams

 

Director, Network & Telecom Services

Division of Information Technology

University of North Georgia

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> ] On Behalf Of Larry Dougher
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 2:28 PM


To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

 

Chris,

 

I have a question about the AP250, but may be a question about MU-MIMO more 
generally.  So, all things being equal, would a 5Ghz 802.11ac device/client see 
any benefit from a Wave 2 AP or would that device/client have to have an 
upgraded/new 802.11ac 5Ghz Wave 2 chip to see a benefit?

 

Thanks,




Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services <http://its.wsesu.net> 
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union <http://wsesu.net> 
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email <mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net>  | Google+ <http://goo.gl

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Kees Pronk]

All,

Little kick at the discussion from a while ago:
There is a YouTube video now from 7signal in which dual 5GHz radio setup is 
discussed: https://youtu.be/6eueR3PYXlA (from 11:30 in the video). Pretty 
interesting!

BR, Kees

Van: Kees Pronk
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 13:45
Aan: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Onderwerp: RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Hi Chris,

“you could in theory double the airtime available”

I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few 
vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.

Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors marketing 
pages, but how about :
Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels plans 
(need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable DFS channels 
on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What about the 2 
radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at the same time.

Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this

1.   Innovation

2.   Marketing gimmick
(pick one ;-)

Best regards, Kees

Van: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Namens Larry Dougher
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11
Aan: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Onderwerp: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Thanks Chris!


Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services<http://its.wsesu.net>
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union<http://wsesu.net>
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email<mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net> | Google+<http://goo.gl/gEAdt> | 
Twitter<http://twitter.com/larrydougher> | 
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> | 802.674.8336

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Chris Adams (IT) 
<chris.ad...@ung.edu<mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu>> wrote:
Larry,

We have deployed 802.11ac WAPs in many locations, but only have 80mhz channels 
enabled sparingly around campus. My hope is that by having the SDR option, we 
could configure 2x 5ghz radios with either 20Mhz or 40Mhz channels, logically 
operating as 2 WAPs. Our wireless use case is primarily for internet access – 
we just don’t have a need for true wave1/2 802.11ac throughputs at this time.

To see true Wave2 throughputs, I believe the client WNIC would need to be 
upgraded. If we could operate 2 “logical” 5ghz WAPs from a single unit for a 
small increase in price, I think this is where our greatest benefit would be at 
this time as you could in theory double the airtime available.

This is based on several assumptions I am making – I have not gotten my hands 
on the new AP250 yet but I am actively looking to do so.

http://boundless.aerohive.com/blog/Designing-WLANS-What-If-we-could-double-our-airtime-at-5-GHz.html


Thanks,

Chris Adams

Director, Network & Telecom Services
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>]
 On Behalf Of Larry Dougher
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 2:28 PM

To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Chris,

I have a question about the AP250, but may be a question about MU-MIMO more 
generally.  So, all things being equal, would a 5Ghz 802.11ac device/client see 
any benefit from a Wave 2 AP or would that device/client have to have an 
upgraded/new 802.11ac 5Ghz Wave 2 chip to see a benefit?

Thanks,


Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services<http://its.wsesu.net>
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union<http://wsesu.net>
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email<mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net> | Google+<http://goo.gl/gEAdt> | 
Twitter<http://twitter.com/larrydougher> | 
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> | 
802.674.8336

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Chris Adams (IT) 
<chris.ad...@ung.edu<mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu>> wrote:
I echo Jeremy’s sentiment – our experience with band-steering has been 
overwhelmingly positive. We are also not (currently) using DFS channels – but 
may be revisiting this soon. I’d estimate almost 2/3 of our 2.4ghz radios are 
disabled.

I am very happy to see the new Aerohive AP250 has a SDR with the option of 
disabling the 2.4ghz radio in favor of having 2x 5ghz radios.

Thanks,

Chris Adams

Director, Network & Telecom Services
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>]
 On Behalf Of Jeremy Gibbs
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 201

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Dennis Xu]

Has anyone tried to create one 5G only SSID and one 2.4G only(or dual band) 
SSID and ask users to connect to the 5G only SSID as long as they can? I 
understand there is a drawback of creating additional SSID, but if you can get 
majority of users on 5G, the benefit may outweigh the drawback. 


Dennis Xu, MASc, CCIE #13056 
Analyst 3, Network Infrastructure 
Computing and Communications Services(CCS) 
University of Guelph 

519-824-4120 Ext 56217 
d...@uoguelph.ca 
www.uoguelph.ca/ccs 

- Original Message -

From: "Ryan H Turner" <rhtur...@email.unc.edu> 
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 9:11:17 AM 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID? 


"What happens when users choose the 2.4 enabled SSID even though they support 
5ghz? They may select it based off signal strength indicators on their client, 
even though they will get a lower data rate." 

They might, but are unlikely to in our situation. The PSK network requires 
special registration and a key that changes each semester. Most never even 
setup the SSID. Of course, they are free to associate with PSK if they wish. 

"I agree to turning off 2.4 on a network that you control all devices for; like 
enterprise solutions, but for 'public' solutions I don't find it advantageous. 
Tune your RF to coax clients to 5ghz and test some of the features vendors 
have. They developed them for a reason and usually work fine. I just don't like 
major decisions on my infrastructure being made based on a very small number of 
'legacy' clients." 

Well, I kinda think that is exactly what you are doing when you continue to run 
on a band that we all know isn't good for the sake of the few. I think I'm 
actually doing the opposite. 

Duke University is just down from the road from us. We have a quarterly meeting 
amongst the area universities. They had a situation, like many of us, where 
they had offices in an area that had a lot of 2.4 interference from other 
businesses. They actually turned off 2.4 entirely because they were having so 
many problems with association on the band in that office building and 
apparently things are now just fine. 

I agree that this is 'likely' not the time to do this enterprise wide. We 
certainly couldn’t in our current deployment campus wide (which would make it 
difficult to do in just one location). But the future of wireless is in the 5 
gig spectrum and beyond, not in the 2.4 space. It is only a matter of time 
before 2.4 won't be supported. 

Ryan 

-Original Message- 
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Turner, Ryan H 
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 7:04 AM 
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID? 

Well, you can convince me otherwise, but I don't think that is true. As stated 
previously, we already see plenty of devices that are 5 gig capable connecting 
to 2.4. Regardless of how long they spend there, they are still on the 2.4 for 
some period. Running a 5 gig only SSID eliminates that. So you eliminate some 
of the guess work of troubleshooting a client, and then you know when they 
connected, they were always at 5. Seems like a win to me. 



And obviously there is no sharing of the radio. 



And also, let's face it. The other SSID isn't a junk SSID in the nature that it 
would resemble the exact same SSID that you run now. There is no additional 
overhead here, as we already run eduroam and a PSK network. 





Ryan Turner 

Senior Network Engineer, ITS 

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 

+1 919 274 7926 Mobile 

+1 919 445 0113 Office 



> On Apr 15, 2016, at 7:48 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) 
> <bosbo...@liberty.edu> wrote: 

> 

> That is not really a solution if the "junk" SSID uses the same radios as the 
> "premiere" SSID. The radio needs to beacon at the lower rates. 

> 

> Running separate "junk" APs really adds to the cost. 

> 

> ​ 

> 

> Bruce Osborne 

> Wireless Engineer 

> IT Network Services - Wireless 

> 

> (434) 592-4229 

> 

> LIBERTY UNIVERSITY 

> Training Champions for Christ since 1971 

> 

> -Original Message- 

> From: Turner, Ryan H [mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu] 

> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 7:44 AM 

> Subject: Re: Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID? 

> 

> Well, as I pointed out from the very beginning, running a premiere SSID that 
> guarantees junk devices can't connect to better ensure some performance while 
> having a backup SSID for all the rest is a solution. It is no different than 
> running a 802.1x SSID. A lot of devices won't support that. But in our case, 
> they fall back to a PSK SSID. You still preserve connectivity, but aren't 
> connecting by th

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Turner, Ryan H]

"What happens when users choose the 2.4 enabled SSID even though they support 
5ghz? They may select it based off signal strength indicators on their client, 
even though they will get a lower data rate."

They might, but are unlikely to in our situation.  The PSK network requires 
special registration and a key that changes each semester.   Most never even 
setup the SSID.  Of course, they are free to associate with PSK if they wish. 

"I agree to turning off 2.4 on a network that you control all devices for; like 
enterprise solutions, but for 'public' solutions I don't find it advantageous. 
Tune your RF to coax clients to 5ghz and test some of the features vendors 
have. They developed them for a reason and usually work fine. I just don't like 
major decisions on my infrastructure being made based on a very small number of 
'legacy' clients."

Well, I kinda think that is exactly what you are doing when you continue to run 
on a band that we all know isn't good for the sake of the few.  I think I'm 
actually doing the opposite. 

Duke University is just down from the road from us.  We have a quarterly 
meeting amongst the area universities.  They had a situation, like many of us, 
where they had offices in an area that had a lot of 2.4 interference from other 
businesses.  They actually turned off 2.4 entirely because they were having so 
many problems with association on the band in that office building and 
apparently things are now just fine.

I agree that this is 'likely' not the time to do this enterprise wide.  We 
certainly couldn’t in our current deployment campus wide (which would make it 
difficult to do in just one location).  But the future of wireless is in the 5 
gig spectrum and beyond, not in the 2.4 space.  It is only a matter of time 
before 2.4 won't be supported.

Ryan

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Turner, Ryan H
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 7:04 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Well, you can convince me otherwise, but I don't think that is true.  As stated 
previously, we already see plenty of devices that are 5 gig capable connecting 
to 2.4.  Regardless of how long they spend there, they are still on the 2.4 for 
some period.  Running a 5 gig only SSID eliminates that.  So you eliminate some 
of the guess work of troubleshooting a client, and then you know when they 
connected, they were always at 5.  Seems like a win to me.  



And obviously there is no sharing of the radio.   



And also, let's face it.  The other SSID isn't a junk SSID in the nature that 
it would resemble the exact same SSID that you run now.  There is no additional 
overhead here, as we already run eduroam and a PSK network.  





Ryan Turner

Senior Network Engineer, ITS

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

+1 919 274 7926 Mobile

+1 919 445 0113 Office



> On Apr 15, 2016, at 7:48 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) 
> <bosbo...@liberty.edu> wrote:

> 

> That is not really a solution if the "junk" SSID uses the same radios as the 
> "premiere" SSID. The radio needs to beacon at the lower rates.

> 

> Running separate "junk" APs really adds to the cost.

> 

> ​

>  

> Bruce Osborne

> Wireless Engineer

> IT Network Services - Wireless

>  

> (434) 592-4229

>  

> LIBERTY UNIVERSITY

> Training Champions for Christ since 1971

> 

> -Original Message-

> From: Turner, Ryan H [mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu] 

> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 7:44 AM

> Subject: Re: Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

> 

> Well, as I pointed out from the very beginning, running a premiere SSID that 
> guarantees junk devices can't connect to better ensure some performance while 
> having a backup SSID for all the rest is a solution.   It is no different 
> than running a 802.1x SSID.  A lot of devices won't support that.  But in our 
> case, they fall back to a PSK SSID.   You still preserve connectivity, but 
> aren't connecting by the smallest common denominator.  

> 

> Ryan Turner

> Senior Network Engineer, ITS

> The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

> +1 919 274 7926 Mobile

> +1 919 445 0113 Office

> 

>> On Apr 14, 2016, at 7:39 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) 
>> <bosbo...@liberty.edu> wrote:

>> 

>> What about 11g or 11n devices that require the lower data rates in order to 
>> connect?

>> 

>> ​

>> 

>> Bruce Osborne

>> Wireless Engineer

>> IT Network Services - Wireless

>> 

>> (434) 592-4229

>> 

>> LIBERTY UNIVERSITY

>> Training Champions for Christ since 1971

>> 

>> 

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[McClintic, Thomas]

What happens when users choose the 2.4 enabled SSID even though they support 
5ghz? They may select it based off signal strength indicators on their client, 
even though they will get a lower data rate.

I agree to turning off 2.4 on a network that you control all devices for; like 
enterprise solutions, but for 'public' solutions I don't find it advantageous. 

Tune your RF to coax clients to 5ghz and test some of the features vendors 
have. They developed them for a reason and usually work fine. I just don't like 
major decisions on my infrastructure being made based on a very small number of 
'legacy' clients.

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Turner, Ryan H
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 7:04 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Well, you can convince me otherwise, but I don't think that is true.  As stated 
previously, we already see plenty of devices that are 5 gig capable connecting 
to 2.4.  Regardless of how long they spend there, they are still on the 2.4 for 
some period.  Running a 5 gig only SSID eliminates that.  So you eliminate some 
of the guess work of troubleshooting a client, and then you know when they 
connected, they were always at 5.  Seems like a win to me.  



And obviously there is no sharing of the radio.   



And also, let's face it.  The other SSID isn't a junk SSID in the nature that 
it would resemble the exact same SSID that you run now.  There is no additional 
overhead here, as we already run eduroam and a PSK network.  





Ryan Turner

Senior Network Engineer, ITS

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

+1 919 274 7926 Mobile

+1 919 445 0113 Office



> On Apr 15, 2016, at 7:48 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) 
> <bosbo...@liberty.edu> wrote:

> 

> That is not really a solution if the "junk" SSID uses the same radios as the 
> "premiere" SSID. The radio needs to beacon at the lower rates.

> 

> Running separate "junk" APs really adds to the cost.

> 

> ​

>  

> Bruce Osborne

> Wireless Engineer

> IT Network Services - Wireless

>  

> (434) 592-4229

>  

> LIBERTY UNIVERSITY

> Training Champions for Christ since 1971

> 

> -Original Message-

> From: Turner, Ryan H [mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu] 

> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 7:44 AM

> Subject: Re: Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

> 

> Well, as I pointed out from the very beginning, running a premiere SSID that 
> guarantees junk devices can't connect to better ensure some performance while 
> having a backup SSID for all the rest is a solution.   It is no different 
> than running a 802.1x SSID.  A lot of devices won't support that.  But in our 
> case, they fall back to a PSK SSID.   You still preserve connectivity, but 
> aren't connecting by the smallest common denominator.  

> 

> Ryan Turner

> Senior Network Engineer, ITS

> The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

> +1 919 274 7926 Mobile

> +1 919 445 0113 Office

> 

>> On Apr 14, 2016, at 7:39 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) 
>> <bosbo...@liberty.edu> wrote:

>> 

>> What about 11g or 11n devices that require the lower data rates in order to 
>> connect?

>> 

>> ​

>> 

>> Bruce Osborne

>> Wireless Engineer

>> IT Network Services - Wireless

>> 

>> (434) 592-4229

>> 

>> LIBERTY UNIVERSITY

>> Training Champions for Christ since 1971

>> 

>> 

>> -Original Message-

>> From: Trinklein, Jason R [mailto:trinkle...@cofc.edu]

>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 9:32 AM

>> Subject: Re: Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

>> 

>> We presently do not permit 802.11a/b devices on our wireless network, but we 
>> do allow 802.11g. Luckily, there are only a few dozen 802.11g devices 
>> connected at any given time, the rest are 802.11n/ac. The performance hit 
>> for supporting g appears to be minimal in our environment.

>> 

>> We’ve been facing issues with special requests on our campus for supporting 
>> bizarre end devices. The most recent request was to support a wifi doorbell, 
>> which uses PSK and 2.4GHz only. Worse, it was easily stolen and cracked, 
>> giving up in cleartext the key.

>> 

>> Refusing to support these devices causes new problems, however. Some of 
>> these locations instead set up their own access points to serve these 
>> special devices, which causes channel interference with our official access 
>> points. To set up such devices is against policy, but it causes some angst 
>> against IT whe

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Turner, Ryan H]

>>> --
>>> Jason Trinklein
>>> 
>>> Wireless Engineering Manager
>>> College of Charleston
>>> 81 St. Philip Street | Office 311D | Charleston, SC 29403 
>>> trinkle...@cofc.edu | (843) 300–8009
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 4/13/16, 8:45 AM, "The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group 
>>>> Listserv on behalf of Frank Sweetser" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
>>>> on behalf of f...@wpi.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> We were lucky enough here to start off from the beginning with a 
>>>> policy of wireless being strictly best effort.  If it works, yay for 
>>>> you!  If it doesn't work, plug into a wired port and we'll get around 
>>>> to fixing wireless if and when we can.  Obviously we can't get away 
>>>> with that kind of position these days, but it's been much easier to 
>>>> start there than to have had the wireless network be priority one from the 
>>>> start.
>>>> 
>>>> Based off of that, we've been able to stick to a basic functional 
>>>> support requirement, rather than being obligated to twist wireless 
>>>> around to support critical devices that someone else decided should 
>>>> depend on wireless.  In our case, devices fall into one of three 
>>>> categories:
>>>> 
>>>> - If your configuration is fully supported by CloudPath, we'll back 
>>>> up that support, including opening vendor tickets on your behalf if 
>>>> you find a real problem.
>>>> 
>>>> - If you're outside of CloudPath support, but you still support our 
>>>> encryption and authentication requirements (WPA2/EAP-TLS), we'll pr 
>>>> work, plug into a wired port and we'll get around to fixing wireless 
>>>> if and when we can.  Obviously we can't get away with that kind of 
>>>> position these days, but it's been much easier to start there than to 
>>>> have had the wireless network be priority one from the start.
>>>> 
>>>> Based off of that, we've been able to stick to a basic functional 
>>>> support requirement, rather than being obligated to twist wireless 
>>>> around to support critical devices that someone else decided should 
>>>> depend on wireless.  In our case, devices fall into one of three 
>>>> categories:
>>>> 
>>>> - If your configuration is fully supported by CloudPath, we'll back 
>>>> up that support, including opening vendor tickets on your behalf if 
>>>> you find a real problem.
>>>> 
>>>> - If you're outside of CloudPath support, but you still support our 
>>>> encryption and authentication requirements (WPA2/EAP-TLS), we'll 
>>>> provide you with an identity cert and some general directions, but 
>>>> you're responsible for the actual configuration.
>>>> 
>>>> - If your device only supports PSK, then sorry, you're out of luck!  
>>>> This also happens to rule out all of the devices that we've seen 
>>>> require 1Mbit data rates, like the Wii, which has made it much easier for 
>>>> us to trim out those bottom rates.
>>>> 
>>>> Obviously we've had to dump resources into wireless over the years to 
>>>> keep pace with actual requirements and user expectations, but 
>>>> starting from the convinience only stance has made it much easier for us 
>>>> to manage expectations over time.
>>>> 
>>>> Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu|  For every problem, there is a solution 
>>>> that
>>>> 
>>>> Manager of Network Operations   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong. 
>>>> Worcester Polytechnic Institute |   - HL Menckenovide you with an
>>>> identity cert and some general directions, but you're responsible for 
>>>> the actual configuration.
>>>> 
>>>> -
>>>> 
>>>> Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu|  For every problem, there is a solution 
>>>> that
>>>> 
>>>> Manager of Network Operations   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong. 
>>>> Worcester Polytechnic Institute |   - HL Mencken
>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, 2016-04-13 at 12:23 +, Chris Adams (IT) wrote:
>>>>> I think this raises an interesting challenge that I've faced too: 
>>>>> should we enact a minimum specification requirement (

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Turner, Ryan H]

und 
>>> to fixing wireless if and when we can.  Obviously we can't get away 
>>> with that kind of position these days, but it's been much easier to 
>>> start there than to have had the wireless network be priority one from the 
>>> start.
>>> 
>>> Based off of that, we've been able to stick to a basic functional 
>>> support requirement, rather than being obligated to twist wireless 
>>> around to support critical devices that someone else decided should 
>>> depend on wireless.  In our case, devices fall into one of three categories:
>>> 
>>> - If your configuration is fully supported by CloudPath, we'll back 
>>> up that support, including opening vendor tickets on your behalf if 
>>> you find a real problem.
>>> 
>>> - If you're outside of CloudPath support, but you still support our 
>>> encryption and authentication requirements (WPA2/EAP-TLS), we'll pr 
>>> work, plug into a wired port and we'll get around to fixing wireless 
>>> if and when we can.  Obviously we can't get away with that kind of 
>>> position these days, but it's been much easier to start there than to 
>>> have had the wireless network be priority one from the start.
>>> 
>>> Based off of that, we've been able to stick to a basic functional 
>>> support requirement, rather than being obligated to twist wireless 
>>> around to support critical devices that someone else decided should 
>>> depend on wireless.  In our case, devices fall into one of three categories:
>>> 
>>> - If your configuration is fully supported by CloudPath, we'll back 
>>> up that support, including opening vendor tickets on your behalf if 
>>> you find a real problem.
>>> 
>>> - If you're outside of CloudPath support, but you still support our 
>>> encryption and authentication requirements (WPA2/EAP-TLS), we'll 
>>> provide you with an identity cert and some general directions, but 
>>> you're responsible for the actual configuration.
>>> 
>>> - If your device only supports PSK, then sorry, you're out of luck!  
>>> This also happens to rule out all of the devices that we've seen 
>>> require 1Mbit data rates, like the Wii, which has made it much easier for 
>>> us to trim out those bottom rates.
>>> 
>>> Obviously we've had to dump resources into wireless over the years to 
>>> keep pace with actual requirements and user expectations, but 
>>> starting from the convinience only stance has made it much easier for us to 
>>> manage expectations over time.
>>> 
>>> Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu|  For every problem, there is a solution 
>>> that
>>> 
>>> Manager of Network Operations   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong. 
>>> Worcester Polytechnic Institute |   - HL Menckenovide you with an
>>> identity cert and some general directions, but you're responsible for 
>>> the actual configuration.
>>> 
>>> -
>>> 
>>> Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu|  For every problem, there is a solution 
>>> that
>>> 
>>> Manager of Network Operations   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong. 
>>> Worcester Polytechnic Institute |   - HL Mencken
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 2016-04-13 at 12:23 +, Chris Adams (IT) wrote:
>>>> I think this raises an interesting challenge that I've faced too: 
>>>> should we enact a minimum specification requirement (ex. no
>>>> 802.11a/b) for wireless network access?
>>>> 
>>>> For student PCs that our service desk supports, we have minimum 
>>>> requirements, IE Windows versions, AV vendors, etc. Outside of those 
>>>> requirements, they cannot support the machines. Should we do 
>>>> something similar for wireless?
>>>> 
>>>> Is it fair to potentially reduce the network experience for others 
>>>> associated to access point to support devices that only utilize 
>>>> legacy wireless methods?
>>>> 
>>>> I am certainly sympathetic to allow as much device freedom as 
>>>> possible - but at what cost to performance and user experience?
>>>> 
>>>> I am interested if any of you may have already crossed this bridge.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Adams, CISSP
>>>> 
>>>> Director, Network & Telecom Services Division of Information 
>>>> Technology University of North Georgia
>>>> 
>>>> -O

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Turner, Ryan H]

de you with an identity cert and some general directions, but 
>> you're responsible for the actual configuration.
>> 
>> - If your device only supports PSK, then sorry, you're out of luck!  
>> This also happens to rule out all of the devices that we've seen 
>> require 1Mbit data rates, like the Wii, which has made it much easier for us 
>> to trim out those bottom rates.
>> 
>> Obviously we've had to dump resources into wireless over the years to 
>> keep pace with actual requirements and user expectations, but starting 
>> from the convinience only stance has made it much easier for us to manage 
>> expectations over time.
>> 
>> Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu|  For every problem, there is a solution 
>> that
>> 
>> Manager of Network Operations   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong. 
>> Worcester Polytechnic Institute |   - HL Menckenovide you with an
>> identity cert and some general directions, but you're responsible for 
>> the actual configuration.
>> 
>> -
>> 
>> Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu|  For every problem, there is a solution 
>> that
>> 
>> Manager of Network Operations   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong. 
>> Worcester Polytechnic Institute |   - HL Mencken
>> 
>>> On Wed, 2016-04-13 at 12:23 +, Chris Adams (IT) wrote:
>>> I think this raises an interesting challenge that I've faced too: 
>>> should we enact a minimum specification requirement (ex. no 
>>> 802.11a/b) for wireless network access?
>>> 
>>> For student PCs that our service desk supports, we have minimum 
>>> requirements, IE Windows versions, AV vendors, etc. Outside of those 
>>> requirements, they cannot support the machines. Should we do 
>>> something similar for wireless?
>>> 
>>> Is it fair to potentially reduce the network experience for others 
>>> associated to access point to support devices that only utilize 
>>> legacy wireless methods?
>>> 
>>> I am certainly sympathetic to allow as much device freedom as 
>>> possible - but at what cost to performance and user experience?
>>> 
>>> I am interested if any of you may have already crossed this bridge.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Chris Adams, CISSP
>>> 
>>> Director, Network & Telecom Services
>>> Division of Information Technology
>>> University of North Georgia
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
>>> [mailto:WIRELE ss-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Osborne, 
>>> Bruce W (Network
>>> Services)
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 8:18 AM
>>> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>>> 
>>> We have  some management with Visio TVs that requires 802.11b rates 
>>> in order to associate. That presents a challenge too.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bruce Osborne
>>> Wireless Engineer
>>> IT Network Services - Wireless
>>> 
>>> (434) 592-4229
>>> 
>>> LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
>>> Training Champions for Christ since 1971
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Gogan, James Patrick [mailto:go...@email.unc.edu]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 8:08 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>>> 
>>> I'm unfortunately seeing that we may actually start to experience an 
>>> INCREASE in 2.4GHz-only devices . when we asked about this on 
>>> campus recently, I received this reply ... and this is from a central IT 
>>> person:
>>> 
>>> " I wanted to point out that many brand new phones don't speak 5GHz 
>>> such as the Motorola Moto G (3rd generation) which just began 
>>> shipping late last summer.  In fact, none of the generations of Moto 
>>> G have a 5GHz radio.  Motorola has reserved 5GHz wifi for the Moto X which 
>>> is their
>>> premium spec phone.The Moto G is a pretty common phone - I know of
>>> several folks (in our department) that have such including myself and 
>>> a coworker who just bought a brand new one Friday.  Republic Wireless 
>>> sells a ton of these.  The Moto E, which is the base model, also 
>>> doesn't speak 5GHz.  Several folks in our building also have that phone."
>>> 
>>> Don't know whether to blame Motorola or folks that go for the 
>>> cheapest 

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Jeffrey D. Sessler]

2.4 is the equivalent of the slow lane. If the majority of your vehicles are 
already on the 5GHz expressway, it really doesn’t matter what the slow lane is 
doing.

Oh, and at least in California, a horse-drawn carriages is treated exactly the 
same as a motorized vehicle, so if it obeys the laws, it’s allowed. ;)

Jeff




On 4/13/16, 7:57 AM, "The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
on behalf of Chuck Anderson" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU on behalf of 
c...@wpi.edu> wrote:

>Think of it like the Interstate Highway system.  You can't use a
>horse-drawn carriage on it, because it would be unsafe and would slow
>everyone down.
>
>I could maybe see making a case for in-dorm room APs to allow lower
>data rates because then they would only be slowing themselves (and
>perhaps adjacent rooms) down, but not in general across the campus.
>
>On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 02:27:23PM +, Jeffrey D. Sessler wrote:
>> While I would agree that you could/should have recommended minimums, I 
>> believe a hard restriction could be looked at as disadvantaging those 
>> students who don’t have the means to purchase compliant hardware. It’s not 
>> uncommon to have academically strong students who require significant 
>> financial aid, and come with whatever device they can afford. 
>> 
>> Looking at our connection stats, it’s clear that in properly engineered 
>> building/spaces, 5GHz is the dominate band selected by devices. With 2.4GHz 
>> being less popular, devices that are 2.4GHz only should in fact be in pretty 
>> good shape. Given the rarity of even 802.11g devices in 2.4, I don’t believe 
>> you’d ever be in a position of reducing the experience for others… the 
>> others are already on 5GHz. 
>> 
>> I’ve said this before. If you are a residential campus, then shouldn’t the 
>> goal be to have the WiFi experience be as similar to home as possible i.e. 
>> Everything connects and works? The closer you get, the fewer cases where a 
>> student is compelled to stand-up their own WAP. I don’t think we’re there 
>> yet, but we’re getting closer.
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 4/13/16, 5:23 AM, "The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group 
>> Listserv on behalf of Chris Adams (IT)" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
>> on behalf of chris.ad...@ung.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> >I think this raises an interesting challenge that I've faced too: should we 
>> >enact a minimum specification requirement (ex. no 802.11a/b) for wireless 
>> >network access?
>> >
>> >For student PCs that our service desk supports, we have minimum 
>> >requirements, IE Windows versions, AV vendors, etc. Outside of those 
>> >requirements, they cannot support the machines. Should we do something 
>> >similar for wireless?
>> >
>> >Is it fair to potentially reduce the network experience for others 
>> >associated to access point to support devices that only utilize legacy 
>> >wireless methods?
>> >
>> >I am certainly sympathetic to allow as much device freedom as possible - 
>> >but at what cost to performance and user experience?
>> >
>> >I am interested if any of you may have already crossed this bridge.
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >
>> >Chris Adams, CISSP
>> >
>> >Director, Network & Telecom Services
>> >Division of Information Technology
>> >University of North Georgia
>> >
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
>> >[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W 
>> >(Network Services)
>> >Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 8:18 AM
>> >To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>> >Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>> >
>> >We have  some management with Visio TVs that requires 802.11b rates in 
>> >order to associate. That presents a challenge too.
>> >
>> >​
>> > 
>> >Bruce Osborne
>> >Wireless Engineer
>> >IT Network Services - Wireless
>> > 
>> >(434) 592-4229
>> > 
>> >LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
>> >Training Champions for Christ since 1971
>> >
>> >
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: Gogan, James Patrick [mailto:go...@email.unc.edu]
>> >Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 8:08 AM
>> >Subject: Re: Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>> >
>> >I'm unfortunately seeing that we may actually start to experience an 
>> >I

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[trent . hurt]

Here is great list of clients w/ capabilities

https://sites.google.com/a/mikealbano.com/clients/



-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hector J Rios
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 9:36 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

This is a good reference to look at devices' capabilities:



https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wikidevi.com_wiki_List-5Fof-5F802.11ac-5FHardware=AwIGaQ=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk=rtlMYUF4nwLIYnoG0qXTf9aFc5RLK7DMyf8lTMu__vs=iInZnKzc7Ag2BSusW5tsNTg8_SpPl6clhUDfwrgGyV0=T3Z9uNRj0uZ8LTynEF4tOxP0aVesBS5DOpC95GyqKxk=
 



Also, the Wi-Fi Alliance site has a lot of good information that is relatively 
simple for users to understand. They also have a product finder page that 
allows you to filter based on different criteria. 



https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.wi-2Dfi.org_product-2Dfinder=AwIGaQ=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk=rtlMYUF4nwLIYnoG0qXTf9aFc5RLK7DMyf8lTMu__vs=iInZnKzc7Ag2BSusW5tsNTg8_SpPl6clhUDfwrgGyV0=Goweo-EWRd043Bvq8bT-Hc1PlS8N5kM58ADti_P5mCU=
 



Other than that, it is hard to teach the consumers to pay attention to the 
details of the technology they are buying. Most of the times their decisions 
are driven by cost factors. Luckily today you can just recommend "AC", and that 
guarantees 5GHZ; something that was not the case with 802.11n.



Regards, 



Hector Rios

Louisiana State University





-Original Message-

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jason Cook

Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 7:41 PM

To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU

Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?



Bit of both, we see plenty of new devices 2.4 only. It's always the cheap 
stuff. Apple is pretty popular though so at least on that side we know we get 
5ghz



The Edimax Nano USB seems a good choice for laptops, 5ghz only but the inbuilt 
will take care of 2.4 and the device is small enough to be plugged in 
permanently. Going to trial a coupel but they are only $20 here in AU so even 
students can afford an upgrade. We've proven to a few people the difference by 
using the large Edimax AC1200, those are great but too big. Antenna strength 
may be interesting on the Nano.



Does anyone have a website up to educate students/staff on BYOD purchasing? We 
used to but it was removed (another story) and I'm keen to get it going again. 
The problem is that most people won't see it before purchasing, but at least 
it's a point of reference. 





-Original Message-

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Gogan, James Patrick

Sent: Tuesday, 12 April 2016 9:38 PM

To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU

Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?



I'm unfortunately seeing that we may actually start to experience an INCREASE 
in 2.4GHz-only devices . when we asked about this on campus recently, I 
received this reply ... and this is from a central IT person:



" I wanted to point out that many brand new phones don't speak 5GHz such as the 
Motorola Moto G (3rd generation) which just began shipping late last summer.  
In fact, none of the generations of Moto G have a 5GHz radio.  Motorola has 
reserved 5GHz wifi for the Moto X which is their premium spec phone.The 
Moto G is a pretty common phone - I know of several folks (in our department) 
that have such including myself and a coworker who just bought a brand new one 
Friday.  Republic Wireless sells a ton of these.  The Moto E, which is the base 
model, also doesn't speak 5GHz.  Several folks in our building also have that 
phone."



Don't know whether to blame Motorola or folks that go for the cheapest stuff 
possible.



-- Jim Gogan / Univ of North Carolina at Chapel Hill



-Original Message-

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Earl Barfield

Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 4:07 PM

To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU

Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?



> On 04/07/2016 09:24 AM, Hector J Rios wrote:

>>

>> I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is 

>> the percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions?

>> For us is still 50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still 

>> see new laptops that only come with 2.4GHz adapters.

>>





While it can be useful to track what percentage of connections use 5GHz radios, 
we've found that a better question to ask is "What percentage of 5GHz-capable 
clients are actually connecting at 5GHz".

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Chuck Anderson]

Think of it like the Interstate Highway system.  You can't use a
horse-drawn carriage on it, because it would be unsafe and would slow
everyone down.

I could maybe see making a case for in-dorm room APs to allow lower
data rates because then they would only be slowing themselves (and
perhaps adjacent rooms) down, but not in general across the campus.

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 02:27:23PM +, Jeffrey D. Sessler wrote:
> While I would agree that you could/should have recommended minimums, I 
> believe a hard restriction could be looked at as disadvantaging those 
> students who don’t have the means to purchase compliant hardware. It’s not 
> uncommon to have academically strong students who require significant 
> financial aid, and come with whatever device they can afford. 
> 
> Looking at our connection stats, it’s clear that in properly engineered 
> building/spaces, 5GHz is the dominate band selected by devices. With 2.4GHz 
> being less popular, devices that are 2.4GHz only should in fact be in pretty 
> good shape. Given the rarity of even 802.11g devices in 2.4, I don’t believe 
> you’d ever be in a position of reducing the experience for others… the others 
> are already on 5GHz. 
> 
> I’ve said this before. If you are a residential campus, then shouldn’t the 
> goal be to have the WiFi experience be as similar to home as possible i.e. 
> Everything connects and works? The closer you get, the fewer cases where a 
> student is compelled to stand-up their own WAP. I don’t think we’re there 
> yet, but we’re getting closer.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> On 4/13/16, 5:23 AM, "The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> on behalf of Chris Adams (IT)" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU on behalf 
> of chris.ad...@ung.edu> wrote:
> 
> >I think this raises an interesting challenge that I've faced too: should we 
> >enact a minimum specification requirement (ex. no 802.11a/b) for wireless 
> >network access?
> >
> >For student PCs that our service desk supports, we have minimum 
> >requirements, IE Windows versions, AV vendors, etc. Outside of those 
> >requirements, they cannot support the machines. Should we do something 
> >similar for wireless?
> >
> >Is it fair to potentially reduce the network experience for others 
> >associated to access point to support devices that only utilize legacy 
> >wireless methods?
> >
> >I am certainly sympathetic to allow as much device freedom as possible - but 
> >at what cost to performance and user experience?
> >
> >I am interested if any of you may have already crossed this bridge.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Chris Adams, CISSP
> >
> >Director, Network & Telecom Services
> >Division of Information Technology
> >University of North Georgia
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> >[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W 
> >(Network Services)
> >Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 8:18 AM
> >To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> >Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
> >
> >We have  some management with Visio TVs that requires 802.11b rates in order 
> >to associate. That presents a challenge too.
> >
> >​
> > 
> >Bruce Osborne
> >Wireless Engineer
> >IT Network Services - Wireless
> > 
> >(434) 592-4229
> > 
> >LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
> >Training Champions for Christ since 1971
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Gogan, James Patrick [mailto:go...@email.unc.edu]
> >Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 8:08 AM
> >Subject: Re: Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
> >
> >I'm unfortunately seeing that we may actually start to experience an 
> >INCREASE in 2.4GHz-only devices . when we asked about this on campus 
> >recently, I received this reply ... and this is from a central IT person:
> >
> >" I wanted to point out that many brand new phones don't speak 5GHz such as 
> >the Motorola Moto G (3rd generation) which just began shipping late last 
> >summer.  In fact, none of the generations of Moto G have a 5GHz radio.  
> >Motorola has reserved 5GHz wifi for the Moto X which is their premium spec 
> >phone.The Moto G is a pretty common phone - I know of several folks (in 
> >our department) that have such including myself and a coworker who just 
> >bought a brand new one Friday.  Republic Wireless sells a ton of these.  The 
> >Moto E, which is the base model, also doesn't speak 5GHz.  Several folks in 
> >our building also have that phone.&quo

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Jeffrey D. Sessler]

While I would agree that you could/should have recommended minimums, I believe 
a hard restriction could be looked at as disadvantaging those students who 
don’t have the means to purchase compliant hardware. It’s not uncommon to have 
academically strong students who require significant financial aid, and come 
with whatever device they can afford. 

Looking at our connection stats, it’s clear that in properly engineered 
building/spaces, 5GHz is the dominate band selected by devices. With 2.4GHz 
being less popular, devices that are 2.4GHz only should in fact be in pretty 
good shape. Given the rarity of even 802.11g devices in 2.4, I don’t believe 
you’d ever be in a position of reducing the experience for others… the others 
are already on 5GHz. 

I’ve said this before. If you are a residential campus, then shouldn’t the goal 
be to have the WiFi experience be as similar to home as possible i.e. 
Everything connects and works? The closer you get, the fewer cases where a 
student is compelled to stand-up their own WAP. I don’t think we’re there yet, 
but we’re getting closer.

Jeff



On 4/13/16, 5:23 AM, "The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
on behalf of Chris Adams (IT)" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU on behalf of 
chris.ad...@ung.edu> wrote:

>I think this raises an interesting challenge that I've faced too: should we 
>enact a minimum specification requirement (ex. no 802.11a/b) for wireless 
>network access?
>
>For student PCs that our service desk supports, we have minimum requirements, 
>IE Windows versions, AV vendors, etc. Outside of those requirements, they 
>cannot support the machines. Should we do something similar for wireless?
>
>Is it fair to potentially reduce the network experience for others associated 
>to access point to support devices that only utilize legacy wireless methods?
>
>I am certainly sympathetic to allow as much device freedom as possible - but 
>at what cost to performance and user experience?
>
>I am interested if any of you may have already crossed this bridge.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Chris Adams, CISSP
>
>Director, Network & Telecom Services
>Division of Information Technology
>University of North Georgia
>
>-Original Message-
>From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
>[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W 
>(Network Services)
>Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 8:18 AM
>To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>
>We have  some management with Visio TVs that requires 802.11b rates in order 
>to associate. That presents a challenge too.
>
>​
> 
>Bruce Osborne
>Wireless Engineer
>IT Network Services - Wireless
> 
>(434) 592-4229
> 
>LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
>Training Champions for Christ since 1971
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Gogan, James Patrick [mailto:go...@email.unc.edu]
>Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 8:08 AM
>Subject: Re: Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>
>I'm unfortunately seeing that we may actually start to experience an INCREASE 
>in 2.4GHz-only devices . when we asked about this on campus recently, I 
>received this reply ... and this is from a central IT person:
>
>" I wanted to point out that many brand new phones don't speak 5GHz such as 
>the Motorola Moto G (3rd generation) which just began shipping late last 
>summer.  In fact, none of the generations of Moto G have a 5GHz radio.  
>Motorola has reserved 5GHz wifi for the Moto X which is their premium spec 
>phone.The Moto G is a pretty common phone - I know of several folks (in 
>our department) that have such including myself and a coworker who just bought 
>a brand new one Friday.  Republic Wireless sells a ton of these.  The Moto E, 
>which is the base model, also doesn't speak 5GHz.  Several folks in our 
>building also have that phone."
>
>Don't know whether to blame Motorola or folks that go for the cheapest stuff 
>possible.
>
>-- Jim Gogan / Univ of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
>
>-Original Message-----
>From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
>[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Earl Barfield
>Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 4:07 PM
>To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>
>> On 04/07/2016 09:24 AM, Hector J Rios wrote:
>>>
>>> I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is 
>>> the percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions?
>>> For us is still 50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still 
>>> see new laptops that only come with 2.4GHz adapters.
>>>
>
>

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Hector J Rios]

This is a good reference to look at devices' capabilities:

https://wikidevi.com/wiki/List_of_802.11ac_Hardware

Also, the Wi-Fi Alliance site has a lot of good information that is relatively 
simple for users to understand. They also have a product finder page that 
allows you to filter based on different criteria. 

http://www.wi-fi.org/product-finder

Other than that, it is hard to teach the consumers to pay attention to the 
details of the technology they are buying. Most of the times their decisions 
are driven by cost factors. Luckily today you can just recommend "AC", and that 
guarantees 5GHZ; something that was not the case with 802.11n.

Regards, 

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jason Cook
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 7:41 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Bit of both, we see plenty of new devices 2.4 only. It's always the cheap 
stuff. Apple is pretty popular though so at least on that side we know we get 
5ghz

The Edimax Nano USB seems a good choice for laptops, 5ghz only but the inbuilt 
will take care of 2.4 and the device is small enough to be plugged in 
permanently. Going to trial a coupel but they are only $20 here in AU so even 
students can afford an upgrade. We've proven to a few people the difference by 
using the large Edimax AC1200, those are great but too big. Antenna strength 
may be interesting on the Nano.

Does anyone have a website up to educate students/staff on BYOD purchasing? We 
used to but it was removed (another story) and I'm keen to get it going again. 
The problem is that most people won't see it before purchasing, but at least 
it's a point of reference. 


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Gogan, James Patrick
Sent: Tuesday, 12 April 2016 9:38 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

I'm unfortunately seeing that we may actually start to experience an INCREASE 
in 2.4GHz-only devices . when we asked about this on campus recently, I 
received this reply ... and this is from a central IT person:

" I wanted to point out that many brand new phones don't speak 5GHz such as the 
Motorola Moto G (3rd generation) which just began shipping late last summer.  
In fact, none of the generations of Moto G have a 5GHz radio.  Motorola has 
reserved 5GHz wifi for the Moto X which is their premium spec phone.The 
Moto G is a pretty common phone - I know of several folks (in our department) 
that have such including myself and a coworker who just bought a brand new one 
Friday.  Republic Wireless sells a ton of these.  The Moto E, which is the base 
model, also doesn't speak 5GHz.  Several folks in our building also have that 
phone."

Don't know whether to blame Motorola or folks that go for the cheapest stuff 
possible.

-- Jim Gogan / Univ of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Earl Barfield
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 4:07 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

> On 04/07/2016 09:24 AM, Hector J Rios wrote:
>>
>> I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is 
>> the percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions?
>> For us is still 50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still 
>> see new laptops that only come with 2.4GHz adapters.
>>


While it can be useful to track what percentage of connections use 5GHz radios, 
we've found that a better question to ask is "What percentage of 5GHz-capable 
clients are actually connecting at 5GHz".

In our environment, it varies wildly by building: some as high as 95% of 
sessions and others, such as our outdoor spaces, down close to zero.

We focus our resources on improving the 5GHz coverage in the buildings with the 
lower percentages.

All this data is in the Airwave Management Platform database.   It just
takes a little gentle coaxing to get it out.

In our high density spaces, we have many many APs on 5GHz with directional 
antennas, along with turning of lower data rates and
raising RxSOP to limit the cell size.   We turn off 2.4GHz
radios on all but a few APs in the room,   From the user side, this
should look about like APs with multiple 5GHz radios.

We're using Cisco AP3702Es right now but we're anxious to take a look at the 
upcoming AP3802Es that should allow us to use fewer APs to but the same number 
of 5GHz antennas serving a room.



--
Earl Barfield -- Academic & Research Tech / Information Tec

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Jason Cook]

Bit of both, we see plenty of new devices 2.4 only. It's always the cheap 
stuff. Apple is pretty popular though so at least on that side we know we get 
5ghz

The Edimax Nano USB seems a good choice for laptops, 5ghz only but the inbuilt 
will take care of 2.4 and the device is small enough to be plugged in 
permanently. Going to trial a coupel but they are only $20 here in AU so even 
students can afford an upgrade. We've proven to a few people the difference by 
using the large Edimax AC1200, those are great but too big. Antenna strength 
may be interesting on the Nano.

Does anyone have a website up to educate students/staff on BYOD purchasing? We 
used to but it was removed (another story) and I'm keen to get it going again. 
The problem is that most people won't see it before purchasing, but at least 
it's a point of reference. 


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Gogan, James Patrick
Sent: Tuesday, 12 April 2016 9:38 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

I'm unfortunately seeing that we may actually start to experience an INCREASE 
in 2.4GHz-only devices . when we asked about this on campus recently, I 
received this reply ... and this is from a central IT person:

" I wanted to point out that many brand new phones don't speak 5GHz such as the 
Motorola Moto G (3rd generation) which just began shipping late last summer.  
In fact, none of the generations of Moto G have a 5GHz radio.  Motorola has 
reserved 5GHz wifi for the Moto X which is their premium spec phone.The 
Moto G is a pretty common phone - I know of several folks (in our department) 
that have such including myself and a coworker who just bought a brand new one 
Friday.  Republic Wireless sells a ton of these.  The Moto E, which is the base 
model, also doesn't speak 5GHz.  Several folks in our building also have that 
phone."

Don't know whether to blame Motorola or folks that go for the cheapest stuff 
possible.

-- Jim Gogan / Univ of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Earl Barfield
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 4:07 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

> On 04/07/2016 09:24 AM, Hector J Rios wrote:
>>
>> I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is 
>> the percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions?
>> For us is still 50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still 
>> see new laptops that only come with 2.4GHz adapters.
>>


While it can be useful to track what percentage of connections use 5GHz radios, 
we've found that a better question to ask is "What percentage of 5GHz-capable 
clients are actually connecting at 5GHz".

In our environment, it varies wildly by building: some as high as 95% of 
sessions and others, such as our outdoor spaces, down close to zero.

We focus our resources on improving the 5GHz coverage in the buildings with the 
lower percentages.

All this data is in the Airwave Management Platform database.   It just
takes a little gentle coaxing to get it out.

In our high density spaces, we have many many APs on 5GHz with directional 
antennas, along with turning of lower data rates and
raising RxSOP to limit the cell size.   We turn off 2.4GHz
radios on all but a few APs in the room,   From the user side, this
should look about like APs with multiple 5GHz radios.

We're using Cisco AP3702Es right now but we're anxious to take a look at the 
upcoming AP3802Es that should allow us to use fewer APs to but the same number 
of 5GHz antennas serving a room.



--
Earl Barfield -- Academic & Research Tech / Information Technology Georgia 
Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
Internet: earl.barfi...@oit.gatech.edue...@gatech.edu

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Gogan, James Patrick]

I'm unfortunately seeing that we may actually start to experience an INCREASE 
in 2.4GHz-only devices . when we asked about this on campus recently, I 
received this reply ... and this is from a central IT person:

" I wanted to point out that many brand new phones don't speak 5GHz such as the 
Motorola Moto G (3rd generation) which just began shipping late last summer.  
In fact, none of the generations of Moto G have a 5GHz radio.  Motorola has 
reserved 5GHz wifi for the Moto X which is their premium spec phone.The 
Moto G is a pretty common phone - I know of several folks (in our department) 
that have such including myself and a coworker who just bought a brand new one 
Friday.  Republic Wireless sells a ton of these.  The Moto E, which is the base 
model, also doesn't speak 5GHz.  Several folks in our building also have that 
phone."

Don't know whether to blame Motorola or folks that go for the cheapest stuff 
possible.

-- Jim Gogan / Univ of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Earl Barfield
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 4:07 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

> On 04/07/2016 09:24 AM, Hector J Rios wrote:
>>
>> I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is 
>> the percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions? 
>> For us is still 50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still 
>> see new laptops that only come with 2.4GHz adapters.
>>


While it can be useful to track what percentage of connections use 5GHz radios, 
we've found that a better question to ask is "What percentage of 5GHz-capable 
clients are actually connecting at 5GHz".

In our environment, it varies wildly by building: some as high as 95% of 
sessions and others, such as our outdoor spaces, down close to zero.

We focus our resources on improving the 5GHz coverage in the buildings with the 
lower percentages.

All this data is in the Airwave Management Platform database.   It just
takes a little gentle coaxing to get it out.

In our high density spaces, we have many many APs on 5GHz with directional 
antennas, along with turning of lower data rates and
raising RxSOP to limit the cell size.   We turn off 2.4GHz
radios on all but a few APs in the room,   From the user side, this
should look about like APs with multiple 5GHz radios.

We're using Cisco AP3702Es right now but we're anxious to take a look at the 
upcoming AP3802Es that should allow us to use fewer APs to but the same number 
of 5GHz antennas serving a room.



--
Earl Barfield -- Academic & Research Tech / Information Technology Georgia 
Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
Internet: earl.barfi...@oit.gatech.edue...@gatech.edu

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Chuck Enfield]

75% of clients in our residence halls connect at 5GHz.  When we enabled DFS 
channels, we saw our 5GHz percentage drop from 65% to 55%, so 75% connected 
at 5GHz now suggests that 80% to 85% would connect if we limited the 5GHz 
channels we use.  I also know our client match settings are not as effective 
as band steering at getting clients onto 5GHz (but it’s better for sticky 
clients and load balancing), so I estimate 85% to 90% of clients on our 
network are 5GHz capable.



FWIW, 75% connecting at 5GHz now is a 10% to 15% increase from when I last 
checked in October.  I think this is a result of an RF optimization we 
performed over winter break at least as much as the proliferation of new 
devices.



Chuck Enfield

Manager, Wireless Systems & Engineering

Telecommunications & Networking Services

The Pennsylvania State University

110H, USB2, UP, PA 16802

ph: 814.863.8715

fx: 814.865.3988



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W 
(Network Services)
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 7:44 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?



Here is a report on client connections from last month.







So, 52% on 5GHz here, 79% by time spent & 71% by data usage.





Bruce Osborne

Wireless Engineer

IT Network Services - Wireless



(434) 592-4229



LIBERTY UNIVERSITY

Training Champions for Christ since 1971





-Original Message-
From: Earl Barfield [mailto:earl.barfi...@oit.gatech.edu]
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?



> On 04/07/2016 09:24 AM, Hector J Rios wrote:

>>

>> I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is

>> the percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions?

>> For us is still 50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still

>> see new laptops that only come with 2.4GHz adapters.

>>





While it can be useful to track what percentage of connections use 5GHz 
radios, we've found that a better question to ask is "What percentage of 
5GHz-capable clients are actually connecting at 5GHz".



In our environment, it varies wildly by building: some as high as 95% of 
sessions and others, such as our outdoor spaces, down close to zero.



We focus our resources on improving the 5GHz coverage in the buildings with 
the lower percentages.



All this data is in the Airwave Management Platform database.   It just

takes a little gentle coaxing to get it out.



In our high density spaces, we have many many APs on 5GHz with directional 
antennas, along with turning of lower data rates and

raising RxSOP to limit the cell size.   We turn off 2.4GHz

radios on all but a few APs in the room,   From the user side, this

should look about like APs with multiple 5GHz radios.



We're using Cisco AP3702Es right now but we're anxious to take a look at the 
upcoming AP3802Es that should allow us to use fewer APs to but the same 
number of 5GHz antennas serving a room.







--

Earl Barfield -- Academic & Research Tech / Information Technology Georgia 
Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332

Internet:  <mailto:earl.barfi...@oit.gatech.edu> 
earl.barfi...@oit.gatech.edu <mailto:e...@gatech.edu> e...@gatech.edu



**

Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
Group discussion list can be found at  <http://www.educause.edu/groups/> 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Earl Barfield]

On 04/07/2016 09:24 AM, Hector J Rios wrote:


I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is the
percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions? For us
is still 50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still see new
laptops that only come with 2.4GHz adapters.




While it can be useful to track what percentage of connections use 5GHz
radios, we've found that a better question to ask is "What percentage
of 5GHz-capable clients are actually connecting at 5GHz".

In our environment, it varies wildly by building: some as high as 95%
of sessions and others, such as our outdoor spaces, down close to zero.

We focus our resources on improving the 5GHz coverage in the buildings
with the lower percentages.

All this data is in the Airwave Management Platform database.   It just
takes a little gentle coaxing to get it out.

In our high density spaces, we have many many APs on 5GHz with
directional antennas, along with turning of lower data rates and
raising RxSOP to limit the cell size.   We turn off 2.4GHz
radios on all but a few APs in the room,   From the user side, this
should look about like APs with multiple 5GHz radios.

We're using Cisco AP3702Es right now but we're anxious to take a look
at the upcoming AP3802Es that should allow us to use fewer APs to
but the same number of 5GHz antennas serving a room.



--
Earl Barfield -- Academic & Research Tech / Information Technology
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
Internet: earl.barfi...@oit.gatech.edue...@gatech.edu

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Jeffrey D. Sessler]

From the Cisco slides I’ve seen on the feature, when in dual 5 Ghz mode, one 
radio acts as the high-performance micro cell for the 802.11ac clients and the 
other radio acts as a macro cell with the legacy clients joining it.

As for the use of 40 GHz channels, at least in my buildings, the propagation of 
5 GHz is so poor that I have absolutely no problem running every radio at 
40-wide with no overlapping channels - all 5 Ghz radios running at full power. 
This is even the case with our recent dense deployments where there are WAPs in 
every-other room. 

Jeff



On 4/7/16, 6:26 PM, "The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv on 
behalf of James Andrewartha"  wrote:

>On 07/04/16 19:44, Kees Pronk wrote:
>> “you could in theory double the airtime available”
>>  
>> I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a
>> few vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.
>>  
>> Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors
>> marketing pages, but how about :
>> 
>> Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels
>> plans (need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable
>> DFS channels on every AP but what about false positive radar detects?
>> What about the 2 radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so
>> send/receive at the same time.
>>  
>> Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this
>> 1.   Innovation
>> 2.   Marketing gimmick
>
>My vote is for 2. Marketing gimmick. Why? Because "airtime available"
>isn't the limiting factor for 802.11ac performance, it's "distance from
>AP" (well, the high SNR required to get the best rates). So I'd much
>rather a full-featured AP with a single 5GHz radio than one with two
>5GHz or band-selectable radios. That way I can have a nice dense
>deployment with low powered APs and waste money on radios I'm not going
>to use. Lowering the AP power also increases the possibility of using
>40GHz channels without interference from other APs, which again is what
>you need to get the most out of 11ac.
>
>Yes, there's an increased cost in cabling and switch ports, but OTOH
>they should run off 802.3af power, not 802.3at which would delay having
>to upgrade some of our older switches.
>
>In terms of our deployment, we have 1 AP per classroom, and sparser
>coverage in other areas. I used to see 75-80% on 5GHz, now it's a bit
>lower after I reduced the radio power per vendor recommendation. This is
>with primarily Apple devices, which are pretty good at picking 5GHz
>without band steering.
>
>Outside of classrooms 2.4GHz is still needed for coverage, it goes
>through walls in ways 5GHz can only dream of. I tried using DFS channels
>and 40MHz at the start of the year but I was getting a lot of radar
>alerts so went back to 20MHz and non-DFS in 5GHz.
>
>-- 
>James Andrewartha
>Network & Projects Engineer
>Christ Church Grammar School
>Claremont, Western Australia
>Ph. (08) 9442 1757
>Mob. 0424 160 877
>
>**
>Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
>discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

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discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Danny Eaton]

Just as a help, here's our client distribution - none on B, but we do have a 
few G, and lots of 2.4 N.  We’ve disabled the lower 2.4G data rates (completely 
disabled 1 Mbps, 2 Mbps, and 5.5, 6 and 9 as supported).

 



 


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[James Andrewartha]

On 07/04/16 19:44, Kees Pronk wrote:
> “you could in theory double the airtime available”
>  
> I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a
> few vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.
>  
> Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors
> marketing pages, but how about :
> 
> Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels
> plans (need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable
> DFS channels on every AP but what about false positive radar detects?
> What about the 2 radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so
> send/receive at the same time.
>  
> Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this
> 1.   Innovation
> 2.   Marketing gimmick

My vote is for 2. Marketing gimmick. Why? Because "airtime available"
isn't the limiting factor for 802.11ac performance, it's "distance from
AP" (well, the high SNR required to get the best rates). So I'd much
rather a full-featured AP with a single 5GHz radio than one with two
5GHz or band-selectable radios. That way I can have a nice dense
deployment with low powered APs and waste money on radios I'm not going
to use. Lowering the AP power also increases the possibility of using
40GHz channels without interference from other APs, which again is what
you need to get the most out of 11ac.

Yes, there's an increased cost in cabling and switch ports, but OTOH
they should run off 802.3af power, not 802.3at which would delay having
to upgrade some of our older switches.

In terms of our deployment, we have 1 AP per classroom, and sparser
coverage in other areas. I used to see 75-80% on 5GHz, now it's a bit
lower after I reduced the radio power per vendor recommendation. This is
with primarily Apple devices, which are pretty good at picking 5GHz
without band steering.

Outside of classrooms 2.4GHz is still needed for coverage, it goes
through walls in ways 5GHz can only dream of. I tried using DFS channels
and 40MHz at the start of the year but I was getting a lot of radar
alerts so went back to 20MHz and non-DFS in 5GHz.

-- 
James Andrewartha
Network & Projects Engineer
Christ Church Grammar School
Claremont, Western Australia
Ph. (08) 9442 1757
Mob. 0424 160 877

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[John Rodkey]

At Westmont we've got the following capabilities reported
802.11g 2.4 - 16 (0.4%)
802.11g 2.4/5 - 16 (0.4%)
802.11n 2.4 - 47 (1.3%)
802.11n 2.4/5 - 1774 (48%)
802.11ac 2.4/5 - 1831 (49%)

Hard to tell, but I think this means 63 2.4GHz (1.7%) and 3621 5GHz (98.3%)

In terms of channel width,
20MHz - 306 ( 8.3%)
40MHz - 996 ( 27%)
80MHz - 2382 (65%)

Would it be a better idea for us to limit our channel width to 40MHz, do
you think?







On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Jeffrey D. Sessler <j...@scrippscollege.edu>
wrote:

> In our newly renovated residential hall, with dense 5 GHz coverage
> (basically every other room), I’m seeing:
>
> 89% 5GHz
> 11% 2.4GHz
>
> 49% of 5GHz clients are 802.11ac
>
> In areas where we don’t have the dense 5 GHz coverage, it looks more like
> this:
>
> 60% 5GHz
> 40% 2.4GHz
> 35% of 5GHz clients are 802.11ac
>
> Overall, 97% of the 2.4 population is 802.11n. The other 3% being G-only.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
> On 4/7/16, 2:02 PM, "The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group
> Listserv on behalf of Chuck Enfield" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> on behalf of chu...@psu.edu> wrote:
>
> >>90% on 5GHz!  That's eye-opening.  I've got some thinking to do.
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
> >[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hunter Fuller
> >Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 4:55 PM
> >To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> >Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
> >
> >On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:31 AM, Chris Adams (IT) <chris.ad...@ung.edu>
> >wrote:
> >> PS: I’m sure some of the Xirrus guys are chuckling at this
> >> conversation as Xirrus has been well known for having large SDR arrays
> >> for many years now J
> >
> >I'm sure. :) One of our highest density areas has a couple of 8-radio
> Xirrus
> >units to serve a room of 250 students. We are running 2x2GHz radios,
> 5x5GHz
> >radios, and 1 monitor mode radio in these units. The performance is great
> >and we typically see a lot of 5GHz clients when the room is "fully
> loaded."
> >I have attached an example.
> >
> >This is definitely in contrast with what we see generally on campus, as
> >people move all around all the time, we see closer to 50/50, or maybe
> 40/60
> >toward 5GHz.
> >
> >As far as 5GHz radios in close proximity within the same unit - I don't
> >worry about it much. We generally just let auto channel take care of it
> and
> >we seem to be fine.
> >
> >--
> >Hunter Fuller
> >Network Engineer
> >VBRH Annex B-1
> >+1 256 824 5331
> >
> >Office of Information Technology
> >The University of Alabama in Huntsville
> >Systems and Infrastructure
> >
> >**
> >Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> >Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
> >
> >**
> >Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>
>

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Jeffrey D. Sessler]

In our newly renovated residential hall, with dense 5 GHz coverage (basically 
every other room), I’m seeing:

89% 5GHz
11% 2.4GHz

49% of 5GHz clients are 802.11ac

In areas where we don’t have the dense 5 GHz coverage, it looks more like this:

60% 5GHz
40% 2.4GHz
35% of 5GHz clients are 802.11ac

Overall, 97% of the 2.4 population is 802.11n. The other 3% being G-only.

Jeff  




On 4/7/16, 2:02 PM, "The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv on 
behalf of Chuck Enfield" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU on behalf of 
chu...@psu.edu> wrote:

>>90% on 5GHz!  That's eye-opening.  I've got some thinking to do.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
>[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hunter Fuller
>Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 4:55 PM
>To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>
>On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:31 AM, Chris Adams (IT) <chris.ad...@ung.edu> 
>wrote:
>> PS: I’m sure some of the Xirrus guys are chuckling at this
>> conversation as Xirrus has been well known for having large SDR arrays
>> for many years now J
>
>I'm sure. :) One of our highest density areas has a couple of 8-radio Xirrus 
>units to serve a room of 250 students. We are running 2x2GHz radios, 5x5GHz 
>radios, and 1 monitor mode radio in these units. The performance is great 
>and we typically see a lot of 5GHz clients when the room is "fully loaded." 
>I have attached an example.
>
>This is definitely in contrast with what we see generally on campus, as 
>people move all around all the time, we see closer to 50/50, or maybe 40/60 
>toward 5GHz.
>
>As far as 5GHz radios in close proximity within the same unit - I don't 
>worry about it much. We generally just let auto channel take care of it and 
>we seem to be fine.
>
>--
>Hunter Fuller
>Network Engineer
>VBRH Annex B-1
>+1 256 824 5331
>
>Office of Information Technology
>The University of Alabama in Huntsville
>Systems and Infrastructure
>
>**
>Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
>Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>
>**
>Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
>discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Chuck Enfield]

>90% on 5GHz!  That's eye-opening.  I've got some thinking to do.

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hunter Fuller
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 4:55 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:31 AM, Chris Adams (IT) <chris.ad...@ung.edu> 
wrote:
> PS: I’m sure some of the Xirrus guys are chuckling at this
> conversation as Xirrus has been well known for having large SDR arrays
> for many years now J

I'm sure. :) One of our highest density areas has a couple of 8-radio Xirrus 
units to serve a room of 250 students. We are running 2x2GHz radios, 5x5GHz 
radios, and 1 monitor mode radio in these units. The performance is great 
and we typically see a lot of 5GHz clients when the room is "fully loaded." 
I have attached an example.

This is definitely in contrast with what we see generally on campus, as 
people move all around all the time, we see closer to 50/50, or maybe 40/60 
toward 5GHz.

As far as 5GHz radios in close proximity within the same unit - I don't 
worry about it much. We generally just let auto channel take care of it and 
we seem to be fine.

--
Hunter Fuller
Network Engineer
VBRH Annex B-1
+1 256 824 5331

Office of Information Technology
The University of Alabama in Huntsville
Systems and Infrastructure

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Hunter Fuller]

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:31 AM, Chris Adams (IT)  wrote:
> PS: I’m sure some of the Xirrus guys are chuckling at this conversation as
> Xirrus has been well known for having large SDR arrays for many years now J

I'm sure. :) One of our highest density areas has a couple of 8-radio
Xirrus units to serve a room of 250 students. We are running 2x2GHz
radios, 5x5GHz radios, and 1 monitor mode radio in these units. The
performance is great and we typically see a lot of 5GHz clients when
the room is "fully loaded." I have attached an example.

This is definitely in contrast with what we see generally on campus,
as people move all around all the time, we see closer to 50/50, or
maybe 40/60 toward 5GHz.

As far as 5GHz radios in close proximity within the same unit - I
don't worry about it much. We generally just let auto channel take
care of it and we seem to be fine.

--
Hunter Fuller
Network Engineer
VBRH Annex B-1
+1 256 824 5331

Office of Information Technology
The University of Alabama in Huntsville
Systems and Infrastructure

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Chuck Enfield]

I haven’t read the whole thread, but just in case this wasn’t mentioned, DFS 
channels factor into this decision.  Some clients don’t support any or all 
DFS channels.  If those can fail over to 2.4, then DFS channel use if very 
practical.  If they can’t, you must be far more discriminate with your DFS 
channel use.



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W 
(Network Services)
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 12:07 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?



B-G-N is 2.4 only, by definition. AC must support 5-Gig



​You have been away from the wireless world for too long.   :D



Bruce Osborne

Wireless Engineer

IT Network Services - Wireless



(434) 592-4229



LIBERTY UNIVERSITY

Training Champions for Christ since 1971



From: Philippe Hanset [mailto:phan...@anyroam.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?



My ears have been burning…



I understand Hector's comment about the spirit of eduroam, but like Ryan I 
have also be tempted in the past to only support 5 GHz in certain areas

because 2.4 GHz was becoming too much of a pain (e.g. Dormitories).  The 
eduroam Compliance Statement requires 802.11, no frequency mentioned.



eduroam users with 2.4GHz devices will just not see the available SSID if a 
school decides to only offer it at 5 GHz in certain locations.

In a sense it is no different than schools only offering eduroam in certain 
locations.



Now, if the entire eduroam SSID for all locations at the school is on 5 GHz, 
it might be challenging.



But how many clients REALLY can’t support 5 GHz?

The stats showing 2.4 GHz VS 5 GHz usage can be deceiving. Is it a client 
with both radios and a poor selection of spectrum,

or is it really 2.4 Ghz only capable devices? It seems that the best way to 
know if 5 GHz only is fine for your community is to “just do it”.



I checked cheap laptops at BestBuy and under specifications you find 
“Wireless-AC” or “Wireless-B, G, N". No reference to the type of radio.

Those darn marketing people, they will get you every time.



Philippe



Philippe Hanset
www.anyroam.net <http://www.anyroam.net>
www.eduroam.us <http://www.eduroam.us>
+1 (865) 236-0770

GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C







On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:04 AM, Turner, Ryan H <rhtur...@email.unc.edu 
<mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu> > wrote:



I don't think so.  I think anytime a university enforces a uniform policy 
that applies to all folks, it shouldn't be an issue.  Of course, we are a 
long way from actually doing this.  We'll involve Phillipe if we move 
forward.

Sent from Outlook Mobile <https://aka.ms/qtex0l>





On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:01 AM -0700, "Hector J Rios" <hr...@lsu.edu 
<mailto:hr...@lsu.edu> > wrote:

I would go back to Jason's comment and reference eduroam's policy. I 
personally think that only allowing 5GHz on eduroam goes against the spirit 
the global availability of eduroam. My 2 cents.

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Newton
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:54 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 01:27:04PM +, Joseph M. Karam wrote:
> We offer 2.4 and 5 GHz service.  When we have conflicts, we work with
> departments to give them a channel in the 2.4 GHz space, then we take
> that channel out of our central infrastructure.
> So, for example we gave engineering channel 6 for all of their labs,
> and we took that out of our central infrastructure.  So far it has
> worked well and we can play together nicely

What do you do after you've given the last remaining free 2.4Ghz channel to 
the third department that requests one and you've got none left for 
yourselves?

And presumably Engineering have lots of CCI because all of their APs are on 
the same frequency?

Not critcising, just trying to understand! :)

Matthew


--
Matthew Newton, Ph.D. <m...@le.ac.uk <mailto:m...@le.ac.uk> >

Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University of 
Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom

For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, <ith...@le.ac.uk 
<mailto:ith...@le.ac.uk> >

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

** Participation and subscription information for

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Jason Wang]

We're also seeing a 50-50 split as far as associations go, but for 
actual usage (based on data transferred), things do look a bit more 
promising.


Associations:
- 51% @ 5GHz (32% .11n, 17% .11ac, 2% .11a)
- 49% @ 2.4GHz (36% .11n, 13% .11g)

Usage (Data Transferred):
- 66% @ 5GHz (34% .11n, 32% .11ac)
- 34% @ 2.4GHz (32% .11n, 2% .11g)


As for turning off 2.4GHz, we've done so in certain areas where we have 
higher-density coverage (eg. larger classrooms that may have a dozen 
WAPs in them). In general, we leave both radios on. To help with the 
2.4GHz situation, though, we have disabled all data rates below 12Mbps 
to improve efficiency for remaining 802.11g/n users.


We've also considered doing separate SSID's for 2.4GHz and 5GHz but 
ultimately decided against it due to end-user support issues. Our 5GHz 
and 2.4GHz coverage footprints aren't identical, and one observation we 
had was that some devices would tend to prefer staying on or 
reconnecting to the same SSID. So, once a device got on 2.4GHz, it may 
require the user to manually move back to 5GHz (vs. just having both 
frequencies available and hoping the device will automatically select 5GHz).


Jason


On 04/07/2016 08:24 AM, Hector J Rios wrote:


I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is the 
percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions? For us 
is still 50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still see new 
laptops that only come with 2.4GHz adapters.


I would love to start turning off 2.4GHz in some areas of our campus, 
but I don’t think that’s an option for us at the moment.


Hector Rios

Louisiana State University

*From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Perry Correll

*Sent:* Thursday, April 07, 2016 7:49 AM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Chris,

Not ‘chuckling’, just smiling as we are actually glad to see other 
vendors supporting this capability. Today we are seeing 70, 80, 90, 
even up to 95% clients supporting 5Ghz capabilities and the 
advancement of SDR capabilities enables IT administrators to more 
efficiently and effectively address this evolution. However Wi-Fi in 
the 2.4Ghz spectrum isn’t going away anytime soon either


Best Regards,

Perry


*Perry Correll*  | /Xirrus Principal Technologist/


o: 805 376 5437  |  m: 321 505 7726

*From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Chris Adams 
(IT)

*Sent:* Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:31 AM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>

*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Kees,

I think your skepticism is well founded. We have many locations with 
multiple 5ghz radios in the same room, but multiple 5ghz on the same 
device will be a more “uncharted” territory for our deployment. I am 
in the process of getting a few AP250 to throw into a few of our 
smaller auditoriums, which should be a good test of their performance.


I do believe that the channel width may be a differentiator in how 
well the deployment works – we are using 20mhz in most locations, 
which eliminates many of the spectrum and channel availability issues 
found with 40mhz+ channel widths.


PS: I’m sure some of the Xirrus guys are chuckling at this 
conversation as Xirrus has been well known for having large SDR arrays 
for many years now J


Thanks,

**

Chris Adams, CISSP

Director, Network & Telecom Services

Division of Information Technology

University of North Georgia

*From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Kees Pronk

*Sent:* Thursday, April 7, 2016 7:45 AM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>

*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Hi Chris,

“you could in theory double the airtime available”

I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a 
few vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.


Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors 
marketing pages, but how about :


Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your 
channels plans (need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you 
must enable DFS channels on every AP but what about false positive 
radar detects? What about the 2 radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while 
trying so send/receive at the same time.


Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this

1.Innovation

2.Marketing gimmick

(pick one ;-)

Best regards, Kees

*Van:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *Namens *Larry Dougher

*Verzonden:* donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11
*Aan:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTS

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Chris Murphy]

In my poking around, if a device says "B,G,N" it's always been 2.4GHz only, 
"A,B,G,N" or anything saying "AC" is safely dual-band.  Of course, if it 
doesn't even say THAT much I'm not sure I'd want to buy it…  :)

-Chris

==
Chris Murphy
Business Analyst
MIT Information Services & Technology
Room W92-191
77 Massachusetts Avenue
Cambridge, MA  02139
ch...@mit.edu
617-253-4105

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of "Danner, Mearl" <jmdan...@samford.edu<mailto:jmdan...@samford.edu>>
Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 11:26 AM
To: 
"WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

That's a good point Phillipe. Had to recently shop for a laptop for a relative 
to use at school. Had to open up Device Manager to find the wireless card 
description.

It appears that at about the $400 price point is the split between single band 
and dual band wireless cards.

Mearl

Sent from my Android phone using Symantec TouchDown (www.symantec.com)

-Original Message-
From: Philippe Hanset [phan...@anyroam.net<mailto:phan...@anyroam.net>]
Received: Thursday, 07 Apr 2016, 9:37AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
[WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>]
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

My ears have been burning…

I understand Hector's comment about the spirit of eduroam, but like Ryan I have 
also be tempted in the past to only support 5 GHz in certain areas
because 2.4 GHz was becoming too much of a pain (e.g. Dormitories).  The 
eduroam Compliance Statement requires 802.11, no frequency mentioned.

eduroam users with 2.4GHz devices will just not see the available SSID if a 
school decides to only offer it at 5 GHz in certain locations.
In a sense it is no different than schools only offering eduroam in certain 
locations.

Now, if the entire eduroam SSID for all locations at the school is on 5 GHz, it 
might be challenging.

But how many clients REALLY can’t support 5 GHz?
The stats showing 2.4 GHz VS 5 GHz usage can be deceiving. Is it a client with 
both radios and a poor selection of spectrum,
or is it really 2.4 Ghz only capable devices? It seems that the best way to 
know if 5 GHz only is fine for your community is to “just do it”.

I checked cheap laptops at BestBuy and under specifications you find 
“Wireless-AC” or “Wireless-B, G, N". No reference to the type of radio.
Those darn marketing people, they will get you every time.

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
www.anyroam.net<http://www.anyroam.net>
www.eduroam.us
+1 (865) 236-0770

GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C






On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:04 AM, Turner, Ryan H 
<rhtur...@email.unc.edu<mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu>> wrote:

I don't think so.  I think anytime a university enforces a uniform policy that 
applies to all folks, it shouldn't be an issue.  Of course, we are a long way 
from actually doing this.  We'll involve Phillipe if we move forward.

Sent from Outlook Mobile<https://aka.ms/qtex0l>




On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:01 AM -0700, "Hector J Rios" 
<hr...@lsu.edu<mailto:hr...@lsu.edu>> wrote:

I would go back to Jason's comment and reference eduroam's policy. I personally 
think that only allowing 5GHz on eduroam goes against the spirit the global 
availability of eduroam. My 2 cents.

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Newton
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:54 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 01:27:04PM +, Joseph M. Karam wrote:
> We offer 2.4 and 5 GHz service.  When we have conflicts, we work with
> departments to give them a channel in the 2.4 GHz space, then we take
> that channel out of our central infrastructure.
> So, for example we gave engineering channel 6 for all of their labs,
> and we took that out of our central infrastructure.  So far it has
> worked well and we can play together nicely

What do you do after you've given the last remaining free 2.4Ghz channel to the 
third department that requests one and you've got none left for yourselves?

And presumably

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Danner, Mearl]

That's a good point Phillipe. Had to recently shop for a laptop for a relative 
to use at school. Had to open up Device Manager to find the wireless card 
description.

It appears that at about the $400 price point is the split between single band 
and dual band wireless cards.

Mearl

Sent from my Android phone using Symantec TouchDown (www.symantec.com)

-Original Message-
From: Philippe Hanset [phan...@anyroam.net]
Received: Thursday, 07 Apr 2016, 9:37AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

My ears have been burning…

I understand Hector's comment about the spirit of eduroam, but like Ryan I have 
also be tempted in the past to only support 5 GHz in certain areas
because 2.4 GHz was becoming too much of a pain (e.g. Dormitories).  The 
eduroam Compliance Statement requires 802.11, no frequency mentioned.

eduroam users with 2.4GHz devices will just not see the available SSID if a 
school decides to only offer it at 5 GHz in certain locations.
In a sense it is no different than schools only offering eduroam in certain 
locations.

Now, if the entire eduroam SSID for all locations at the school is on 5 GHz, it 
might be challenging.

But how many clients REALLY can’t support 5 GHz?
The stats showing 2.4 GHz VS 5 GHz usage can be deceiving. Is it a client with 
both radios and a poor selection of spectrum,
or is it really 2.4 Ghz only capable devices? It seems that the best way to 
know if 5 GHz only is fine for your community is to “just do it”.

I checked cheap laptops at BestBuy and under specifications you find 
“Wireless-AC” or “Wireless-B, G, N". No reference to the type of radio.
Those darn marketing people, they will get you every time.

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
www.anyroam.net<http://www.anyroam.net>
www.eduroam.us
+1 (865) 236-0770

GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C






On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:04 AM, Turner, Ryan H 
<rhtur...@email.unc.edu<mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu>> wrote:

I don't think so.  I think anytime a university enforces a uniform policy that 
applies to all folks, it shouldn't be an issue.  Of course, we are a long way 
from actually doing this.  We'll involve Phillipe if we move forward.

Sent from Outlook Mobile<https://aka.ms/qtex0l>




On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:01 AM -0700, "Hector J Rios" 
<hr...@lsu.edu<mailto:hr...@lsu.edu>> wrote:

I would go back to Jason's comment and reference eduroam's policy. I personally 
think that only allowing 5GHz on eduroam goes against the spirit the global 
availability of eduroam. My 2 cents.

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Newton
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:54 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 01:27:04PM +, Joseph M. Karam wrote:
> We offer 2.4 and 5 GHz service.  When we have conflicts, we work with
> departments to give them a channel in the 2.4 GHz space, then we take
> that channel out of our central infrastructure.
> So, for example we gave engineering channel 6 for all of their labs,
> and we took that out of our central infrastructure.  So far it has
> worked well and we can play together nicely

What do you do after you've given the last remaining free 2.4Ghz channel to the 
third department that requests one and you've got none left for yourselves?

And presumably Engineering have lots of CCI because all of their APs are on the 
same frequency?

Not critcising, just trying to understand! :)

Matthew


--
Matthew Newton, Ph.D. <m...@le.ac.uk<mailto:m...@le.ac.uk>>

Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University of 
Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom

For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, 
<ith...@le.ac.uk<mailto:ith...@le.ac.uk>>

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Jeffrey D. Sessler]

My experience with Mac OS is that while you may start out on 2.4, it will move 
itself to 5 given a bit of time – that’s assuming the vendor-specific 
band/ap-steering isn’t mucking with it, and the 5 radio is running in 40-wide.

I see this when students roll into the residence halls after dinner. Lots of 
clients start on 2.4, but within a short period all of those stationary Macs 
are then sitting on 5 GHz.

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Philippe Hanset <phan...@anyroam.net<mailto:phan...@anyroam.net>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 8:02 AM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Chris,

The Wi-Fi deployment is definitely a big part of the equation but so it the 
“sticky client”. I’m writing this email just above a nice dual band 
Access-Point with an observed RSSI of -55dBm on my Macbook Pro,
and I’m on 2.4 GHz :(  (I started my journey far away from that same AP…)

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
www.anyroam.net<http://www.anyroam.net>
www.eduroam.us
+1 (865) 236-0770

GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C






On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:43 AM, Chris Adams (IT) 
<chris.ad...@ung.edu<mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu>> wrote:

Phillipe,

I would suggest that it’s not always an issue of the client not supporting 
5ghz, but rather that some deployments are not conducive to good 5ghz 
propagation – we’ve all seen WAPs in hallways between classrooms before. In my 
experience, clients that associate to 2.4ghz are doing so due to lack of good 
5ghz signal, and less so due to client radios.

Thanks,

Chris Adams, CISSP

Director, Network & Telecom Services
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Philippe Hanset
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 10:37 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

My ears have been burning…

I understand Hector's comment about the spirit of eduroam, but like Ryan I have 
also be tempted in the past to only support 5 GHz in certain areas
because 2.4 GHz was becoming too much of a pain (e.g. Dormitories).  The 
eduroam Compliance Statement requires 802.11, no frequency mentioned.

eduroam users with 2.4GHz devices will just not see the available SSID if a 
school decides to only offer it at 5 GHz in certain locations.
In a sense it is no different than schools only offering eduroam in certain 
locations.

Now, if the entire eduroam SSID for all locations at the school is on 5 GHz, it 
might be challenging.

But how many clients REALLY can’t support 5 GHz?
The stats showing 2.4 GHz VS 5 GHz usage can be deceiving. Is it a client with 
both radios and a poor selection of spectrum,
or is it really 2.4 Ghz only capable devices? It seems that the best way to 
know if 5 GHz only is fine for your community is to “just do it”.

I checked cheap laptops at BestBuy and under specifications you find 
“Wireless-AC” or “Wireless-B, G, N". No reference to the type of radio.
Those darn marketing people, they will get you every time.

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
www.anyroam.net<http://www.anyroam.net/>
www.eduroam.us<http://www.eduroam.us/>
+1 (865) 236-0770
GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C





On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:04 AM, Turner, Ryan H 
<rhtur...@email.unc.edu<mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu>> wrote:

I don't think so.  I think anytime a university enforces a uniform policy that 
applies to all folks, it shouldn't be an issue.  Of course, we are a long way 
from actually doing this.  We'll involve Phillipe if we move forward.
Sent from Outlook Mobile<https://aka.ms/qtex0l>



On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:01 AM -0700, "Hector J Rios" 
<hr...@lsu.edu<mailto:hr...@lsu.edu>> wrote:
I would go back to Jason's comment and reference eduroam's policy. I personally 
think that only allowing 5GHz on eduroam goes against the spirit the global 
availability of eduroam. My 2 cents.

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Newton
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:54 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
Subject

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Philippe Hanset]

Chris,

The Wi-Fi deployment is definitely a big part of the equation but so it the 
“sticky client”. I’m writing this email just above a nice dual band 
Access-Point with an observed RSSI of -55dBm on my Macbook Pro,
and I’m on 2.4 GHz :(  (I started my journey far away from that same AP…)

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
www.anyroam.net
www.eduroam.us
+1 (865) 236-0770

GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C






> On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:43 AM, Chris Adams (IT) <chris.ad...@ung.edu> wrote:
> 
> Phillipe,
> 
> I would suggest that it’s not always an issue of the client not supporting 
> 5ghz, but rather that some deployments are not conducive to good 5ghz 
> propagation – we’ve all seen WAPs in hallways between classrooms before. In 
> my experience, clients that associate to 2.4ghz are doing so due to lack of 
> good 5ghz signal, and less so due to client radios.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris Adams, CISSP
> 
> Director, Network & Telecom Services
> Division of Information Technology
> University of North Georgia
> 
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] On Behalf Of Philippe Hanset
> Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 10:37 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
> 
> My ears have been burning…
> 
> I understand Hector's comment about the spirit of eduroam, but like Ryan I 
> have also be tempted in the past to only support 5 GHz in certain areas
> because 2.4 GHz was becoming too much of a pain (e.g. Dormitories).  The 
> eduroam Compliance Statement requires 802.11, no frequency mentioned.
> 
> eduroam users with 2.4GHz devices will just not see the available SSID if a 
> school decides to only offer it at 5 GHz in certain locations.
> In a sense it is no different than schools only offering eduroam in certain 
> locations.
> 
> Now, if the entire eduroam SSID for all locations at the school is on 5 GHz, 
> it might be challenging.
> 
> But how many clients REALLY can’t support 5 GHz?
> The stats showing 2.4 GHz VS 5 GHz usage can be deceiving. Is it a client 
> with both radios and a poor selection of spectrum,
> or is it really 2.4 Ghz only capable devices? It seems that the best way to 
> know if 5 GHz only is fine for your community is to “just do it”.
> 
> I checked cheap laptops at BestBuy and under specifications you find 
> “Wireless-AC” or “Wireless-B, G, N". No reference to the type of radio.
> Those darn marketing people, they will get you every time.
> 
> Philippe
> 
> Philippe Hanset
> www.anyroam.net <http://www.anyroam.net/>
> www.eduroam.us <http://www.eduroam.us/>
> +1 (865) 236-0770
> 
> GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:04 AM, Turner, Ryan H <rhtur...@email.unc.edu 
> <mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu>> wrote:
> 
> I don't think so.  I think anytime a university enforces a uniform policy 
> that applies to all folks, it shouldn't be an issue.  Of course, we are a 
> long way from actually doing this.  We'll involve Phillipe if we move forward.
> 
> Sent from Outlook Mobile <https://aka.ms/qtex0l>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:01 AM -0700, "Hector J Rios" <hr...@lsu.edu 
> <mailto:hr...@lsu.edu>> wrote:
> 
> I would go back to Jason's comment and reference eduroam's policy. I 
> personally think that only allowing 5GHz on eduroam goes against the spirit 
> the global availability of eduroam. My 2 cents.
> 
> Hector Rios
> Louisiana State University
> 
> -Original Message-----
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] On Behalf Of Matthew Newton
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:54 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
> 
> On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 01:27:04PM +, Joseph M. Karam wrote:
> > We offer 2.4 and 5 GHz service.  When we have conflicts, we work with
> > departments to give them a channel in the 2.4 GHz space, then we take
> > that channel out of our central infrastructure.
> > So, for example we gave engineering channel 6 for all of their labs,
> > and we took that out of our central infrastructure.  So far it has
> > worked well and we can play together nicely
> 
> What do you do after you've given the last remaining free 2.4Ghz channel to 
> the third department that requests one an

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Jeffrey D. Sessler]

I would add that band selection is far more complicated when a device is moving 
then when stationary. In the case of some mobile devices, they will prefer a 
2.4 anchor just to lesson the number of times they have to roam re-associate 
i.e. Maintain that WiFi call.

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of "Chris Adams (IT)" 
<chris.ad...@ung.edu<mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 7:43 AM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Phillipe,

I would suggest that it’s not always an issue of the client not supporting 
5ghz, but rather that some deployments are not conducive to good 5ghz 
propagation – we’ve all seen WAPs in hallways between classrooms before. In my 
experience, clients that associate to 2.4ghz are doing so due to lack of good 
5ghz signal, and less so due to client radios.

Thanks,

Chris Adams, CISSP

Director, Network & Telecom Services
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Philippe Hanset
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 10:37 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

My ears have been burning…

I understand Hector's comment about the spirit of eduroam, but like Ryan I have 
also be tempted in the past to only support 5 GHz in certain areas
because 2.4 GHz was becoming too much of a pain (e.g. Dormitories).  The 
eduroam Compliance Statement requires 802.11, no frequency mentioned.

eduroam users with 2.4GHz devices will just not see the available SSID if a 
school decides to only offer it at 5 GHz in certain locations.
In a sense it is no different than schools only offering eduroam in certain 
locations.

Now, if the entire eduroam SSID for all locations at the school is on 5 GHz, it 
might be challenging.

But how many clients REALLY can’t support 5 GHz?
The stats showing 2.4 GHz VS 5 GHz usage can be deceiving. Is it a client with 
both radios and a poor selection of spectrum,
or is it really 2.4 Ghz only capable devices? It seems that the best way to 
know if 5 GHz only is fine for your community is to “just do it”.

I checked cheap laptops at BestBuy and under specifications you find 
“Wireless-AC” or “Wireless-B, G, N". No reference to the type of radio.
Those darn marketing people, they will get you every time.

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
www.anyroam.net<http://www.anyroam.net>
www.eduroam.us<http://www.eduroam.us>
+1 (865) 236-0770
GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C





On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:04 AM, Turner, Ryan H 
<rhtur...@email.unc.edu<mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu>> wrote:

I don't think so.  I think anytime a university enforces a uniform policy that 
applies to all folks, it shouldn't be an issue.  Of course, we are a long way 
from actually doing this.  We'll involve Phillipe if we move forward.
Sent from Outlook Mobile<https://aka.ms/qtex0l>



On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:01 AM -0700, "Hector J Rios" 
<hr...@lsu.edu<mailto:hr...@lsu.edu>> wrote:
I would go back to Jason's comment and reference eduroam's policy. I personally 
think that only allowing 5GHz on eduroam goes against the spirit the global 
availability of eduroam. My 2 cents.

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Newton
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:54 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 01:27:04PM +, Joseph M. Karam wrote:
> We offer 2.4 and 5 GHz service.  When we have conflicts, we work with
> departments to give them a channel in the 2.4 GHz space, then we take
> that channel out of our central infrastructure.
> So, for example we gave engineering channel 6 for all of their labs,
> and we took that out of our central infrastructure.  So far it has
> worked well and we can play together nicely

What do you do after you've given the last remaining free 2.4Ghz channel to the 
third department that requests one and you've got none left for yourselves?

And pr

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Turner, Ryan H]

Well, we went to eduroam as our primary last fall.  There are many clients that 
don't support advanced EAP types, so we removed our duplicative EAP-tls SSID 
leaving 3 major SSIDs.  Eduroam, UNC-psk and our onboarding SSID.

Ryan Turner
Senior Network Engineer, ITS
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
+1 919 274 7926 Mobile
+1 919 445 0113 Office

On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Jeffrey D. Sessler 
<j...@scrippscollege.edu<mailto:j...@scrippscollege.edu>> wrote:

On the eduroam question, our consortium think at this point is to abandon our 
“branded” SSID in favor of eduroam. I’ve yet to find a compelling technical 
reason to continue support of a branded SSID in addition to eduroam, so it sort 
of forces the need to continue support of both 2.4 and 5 – and it keeps eduroam 
from becoming a red-headed-step-child to the branded SSID.

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Philippe Hanset <phan...@anyroam.net<mailto:phan...@anyroam.net>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 7:36 AM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

My ears have been burning…

I understand Hector's comment about the spirit of eduroam, but like Ryan I have 
also be tempted in the past to only support 5 GHz in certain areas
because 2.4 GHz was becoming too much of a pain (e.g. Dormitories).  The 
eduroam Compliance Statement requires 802.11, no frequency mentioned.

eduroam users with 2.4GHz devices will just not see the available SSID if a 
school decides to only offer it at 5 GHz in certain locations.
In a sense it is no different than schools only offering eduroam in certain 
locations.

Now, if the entire eduroam SSID for all locations at the school is on 5 GHz, it 
might be challenging.

But how many clients REALLY can’t support 5 GHz?
The stats showing 2.4 GHz VS 5 GHz usage can be deceiving. Is it a client with 
both radios and a poor selection of spectrum,
or is it really 2.4 Ghz only capable devices? It seems that the best way to 
know if 5 GHz only is fine for your community is to “just do it”.

I checked cheap laptops at BestBuy and under specifications you find 
“Wireless-AC” or “Wireless-B, G, N". No reference to the type of radio.
Those darn marketing people, they will get you every time.

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
www.anyroam.net<http://www.anyroam.net>
www.eduroam.us<http://www.eduroam.us>
+1 (865) 236-0770

GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C






On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:04 AM, Turner, Ryan H 
<rhtur...@email.unc.edu<mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu>> wrote:

I don't think so.  I think anytime a university enforces a uniform policy that 
applies to all folks, it shouldn't be an issue.  Of course, we are a long way 
from actually doing this.  We'll involve Phillipe if we move forward.

Sent from Outlook Mobile<https://aka.ms/qtex0l>




On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:01 AM -0700, "Hector J Rios" 
<hr...@lsu.edu<mailto:hr...@lsu.edu>> wrote:

I would go back to Jason's comment and reference eduroam's policy. I personally 
think that only allowing 5GHz on eduroam goes against the spirit the global 
availability of eduroam. My 2 cents.

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Newton
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:54 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 01:27:04PM +, Joseph M. Karam wrote:
> We offer 2.4 and 5 GHz service.  When we have conflicts, we work with
> departments to give them a channel in the 2.4 GHz space, then we take
> that channel out of our central infrastructure.
> So, for example we gave engineering channel 6 for all of their labs,
> and we took that out of our central infrastructure.  So far it has
> worked well and we can play together nicely

What do you do after you've given the last remaining free 2.4Ghz channel to the 
third department that requests one and you've got none left for yourselves?

And presumably Engineering have lots of CCI because all of their APs are on the 
same frequency?

Not critcising, just trying to understand! :)

Matthew


--
Matthew Newton, Ph.D. <m...@le.ac.uk<mailto:m...@le.ac.uk>>

S

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Jeffrey D. Sessler]

On the eduroam question, our consortium think at this point is to abandon our 
“branded” SSID in favor of eduroam. I’ve yet to find a compelling technical 
reason to continue support of a branded SSID in addition to eduroam, so it sort 
of forces the need to continue support of both 2.4 and 5 – and it keeps eduroam 
from becoming a red-headed-step-child to the branded SSID.

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Philippe Hanset <phan...@anyroam.net<mailto:phan...@anyroam.net>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 7:36 AM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

My ears have been burning…

I understand Hector's comment about the spirit of eduroam, but like Ryan I have 
also be tempted in the past to only support 5 GHz in certain areas
because 2.4 GHz was becoming too much of a pain (e.g. Dormitories).  The 
eduroam Compliance Statement requires 802.11, no frequency mentioned.

eduroam users with 2.4GHz devices will just not see the available SSID if a 
school decides to only offer it at 5 GHz in certain locations.
In a sense it is no different than schools only offering eduroam in certain 
locations.

Now, if the entire eduroam SSID for all locations at the school is on 5 GHz, it 
might be challenging.

But how many clients REALLY can’t support 5 GHz?
The stats showing 2.4 GHz VS 5 GHz usage can be deceiving. Is it a client with 
both radios and a poor selection of spectrum,
or is it really 2.4 Ghz only capable devices? It seems that the best way to 
know if 5 GHz only is fine for your community is to “just do it”.

I checked cheap laptops at BestBuy and under specifications you find 
“Wireless-AC” or “Wireless-B, G, N". No reference to the type of radio.
Those darn marketing people, they will get you every time.

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
www.anyroam.net<http://www.anyroam.net>
www.eduroam.us
+1 (865) 236-0770

GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C






On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:04 AM, Turner, Ryan H 
<rhtur...@email.unc.edu<mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu>> wrote:

I don't think so.  I think anytime a university enforces a uniform policy that 
applies to all folks, it shouldn't be an issue.  Of course, we are a long way 
from actually doing this.  We'll involve Phillipe if we move forward.

Sent from Outlook Mobile<https://aka.ms/qtex0l>




On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:01 AM -0700, "Hector J Rios" 
<hr...@lsu.edu<mailto:hr...@lsu.edu>> wrote:

I would go back to Jason's comment and reference eduroam's policy. I personally 
think that only allowing 5GHz on eduroam goes against the spirit the global 
availability of eduroam. My 2 cents.

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Newton
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:54 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 01:27:04PM +, Joseph M. Karam wrote:
> We offer 2.4 and 5 GHz service.  When we have conflicts, we work with
> departments to give them a channel in the 2.4 GHz space, then we take
> that channel out of our central infrastructure.
> So, for example we gave engineering channel 6 for all of their labs,
> and we took that out of our central infrastructure.  So far it has
> worked well and we can play together nicely

What do you do after you've given the last remaining free 2.4Ghz channel to the 
third department that requests one and you've got none left for yourselves?

And presumably Engineering have lots of CCI because all of their APs are on the 
same frequency?

Not critcising, just trying to understand! :)

Matthew


--
Matthew Newton, Ph.D. <m...@le.ac.uk<mailto:m...@le.ac.uk>>

Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University of 
Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom

For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, 
<ith...@le.ac.uk<mailto:ith...@le.ac.uk>>

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Trinklein, Jason R]

According to our management console, on our campus more than 11% of client 
stations are 2.4GHz capable only, and incapable of 5GHz.
--
Jason Trinklein
Wireless Engineering Manager
College of Charleston
81 St. Philip Street | Office 311D | Charleston, SC 29403
trinkle...@cofc.edu<mailto:trinkle...@cofc.edu> | Office - (843) 300-8009

From: Philippe Hanset <phan...@anyroam.net<mailto:phan...@anyroam.net>>
Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 10:36:58 -0400
To: 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

My ears have been burning…

I understand Hector's comment about the spirit of eduroam, but like Ryan I have 
also be tempted in the past to only support 5 GHz in certain areas
because 2.4 GHz was becoming too much of a pain (e.g. Dormitories).  The 
eduroam Compliance Statement requires 802.11, no frequency mentioned.

eduroam users with 2.4GHz devices will just not see the available SSID if a 
school decides to only offer it at 5 GHz in certain locations.
In a sense it is no different than schools only offering eduroam in certain 
locations.

Now, if the entire eduroam SSID for all locations at the school is on 5 GHz, it 
might be challenging.

But how many clients REALLY can’t support 5 GHz?
The stats showing 2.4 GHz VS 5 GHz usage can be deceiving. Is it a client with 
both radios and a poor selection of spectrum,
or is it really 2.4 Ghz only capable devices? It seems that the best way to 
know if 5 GHz only is fine for your community is to “just do it”.

I checked cheap laptops at BestBuy and under specifications you find 
“Wireless-AC” or “Wireless-B, G, N". No reference to the type of radio.
Those darn marketing people, they will get you every time.

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
www.anyroam.net<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.anyroam.net=CwMFaQ=7MSSWy9Bs2yocjNQzurxOQ=AuveJXIorHW4s-aGSHEbnQZt5LubWGCZik-5HxxaRqU=f-bAHL3b8YwZEVnf9PH4C0ythVU6FDQK6Av7oiq8ikM=J253KbqIzfSdXoR2sRvQj8vcUIrdOkp2kCqHY4LsFmQ=>
www.eduroam.us
+1 (865) 236-0770

GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C






On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:04 AM, Turner, Ryan H 
<rhtur...@email.unc.edu<mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu>> wrote:

I don't think so.  I think anytime a university enforces a uniform policy that 
applies to all folks, it shouldn't be an issue.  Of course, we are a long way 
from actually doing this.  We'll involve Phillipe if we move forward.

Sent from Outlook 
Mobile<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_qtex0l=CwMFaQ=7MSSWy9Bs2yocjNQzurxOQ=AuveJXIorHW4s-aGSHEbnQZt5LubWGCZik-5HxxaRqU=f-bAHL3b8YwZEVnf9PH4C0ythVU6FDQK6Av7oiq8ikM=sXqrhx35lFNhnrNoI_DZtoij29sH2f190fKFcrkYnyo=>




On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:01 AM -0700, "Hector J Rios" 
<hr...@lsu.edu<mailto:hr...@lsu.edu>> wrote:

I would go back to Jason's comment and reference eduroam's policy. I personally 
think that only allowing 5GHz on eduroam goes against the spirit the global 
availability of eduroam. My 2 cents.

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Newton
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:54 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 01:27:04PM +, Joseph M. Karam wrote:
> We offer 2.4 and 5 GHz service.  When we have conflicts, we work with
> departments to give them a channel in the 2.4 GHz space, then we take
> that channel out of our central infrastructure.
> So, for example we gave engineering channel 6 for all of their labs,
> and we took that out of our central infrastructure.  So far it has
> worked well and we can play together nicely

What do you do after you've given the last remaining free 2.4Ghz channel to the 
third department that requests one and you've got none left for yourselves?

And presumably Engineering have lots of CCI because all of their APs are on the 
same frequency?

Not critcising, just trying to understand! :)

Matthew


--
Matthew Newton, Ph.D. <m...@le.ac.uk<mailto:m...@le.ac.uk>>

Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University of 
Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom

For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, 
<ith...@le.ac.uk<mailto:ith...@le.ac.uk>>

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.educause.edu_groups_=CwMFaQ=7MSSWy9Bs2yocjNQzurxOQ=AuveJXIorHW4s-aG

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Chris Adams (IT)]

Phillipe,

 

I would suggest that it’s not always an issue of the client not supporting 
5ghz, but rather that some deployments are not conducive to good 5ghz 
propagation – we’ve all seen WAPs in hallways between classrooms before. In my 
experience, clients that associate to 2.4ghz are doing so due to lack of good 
5ghz signal, and less so due to client radios.

 

Thanks,

 

Chris Adams, CISSP

 

Director, Network & Telecom Services

Division of Information Technology

University of North Georgia

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Philippe Hanset
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 10:37 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

 

My ears have been burning…

 

I understand Hector's comment about the spirit of eduroam, but like Ryan I have 
also be tempted in the past to only support 5 GHz in certain areas

because 2.4 GHz was becoming too much of a pain (e.g. Dormitories).  The 
eduroam Compliance Statement requires 802.11, no frequency mentioned.

 

eduroam users with 2.4GHz devices will just not see the available SSID if a 
school decides to only offer it at 5 GHz in certain locations.

In a sense it is no different than schools only offering eduroam in certain 
locations. 

 

Now, if the entire eduroam SSID for all locations at the school is on 5 GHz, it 
might be challenging.

 

But how many clients REALLY can’t support 5 GHz?

The stats showing 2.4 GHz VS 5 GHz usage can be deceiving. Is it a client with 
both radios and a poor selection of spectrum,

or is it really 2.4 Ghz only capable devices? It seems that the best way to 
know if 5 GHz only is fine for your community is to “just do it”.

 

I checked cheap laptops at BestBuy and under specifications you find 
“Wireless-AC” or “Wireless-B, G, N". No reference to the type of radio.

Those darn marketing people, they will get you every time.

 

Philippe

 

Philippe Hanset
www.anyroam.net <http://www.anyroam.net> 
www.eduroam.us <http://www.eduroam.us> 
+1 (865) 236-0770

GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C






 

On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:04 AM, Turner, Ryan H <rhtur...@email.unc.edu 
<mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu> > wrote:

 

I don't think so.  I think anytime a university enforces a uniform policy that 
applies to all folks, it shouldn't be an issue.  Of course, we are a long way 
from actually doing this.  We'll involve Phillipe if we move forward.  

Sent from Outlook Mobile <https://aka.ms/qtex0l> 

 





On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:01 AM -0700, "Hector J Rios" <hr...@lsu.edu 
<mailto:hr...@lsu.edu> > wrote:

I would go back to Jason's comment and reference eduroam's policy. I personally 
think that only allowing 5GHz on eduroam goes against the spirit the global 
availability of eduroam. My 2 cents.

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Newton
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:54 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu> 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 01:27:04PM +, Joseph M. Karam wrote:
> We offer 2.4 and 5 GHz service.  When we have conflicts, we work with 
> departments to give them a channel in the 2.4 GHz space, then we take 
> that channel out of our central infrastructure.
> So, for example we gave engineering channel 6 for all of their labs, 
> and we took that out of our central infrastructure.  So far it has 
> worked well and we can play together nicely

What do you do after you've given the last remaining free 2.4Ghz channel to the 
third department that requests one and you've got none left for yourselves?

And presumably Engineering have lots of CCI because all of their APs are on the 
same frequency?

Not critcising, just trying to understand! :)

Matthew


--
Matthew Newton, Ph.D. <m...@le.ac.uk <mailto:m...@le.ac.uk> >

Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University of 
Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom

For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, <ith...@le.ac.uk 
<mailto:ith...@le.ac.uk> >

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at  
<http://www.educause.edu/groups/> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

 

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent G

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Philippe Hanset]

My ears have been burning…

I understand Hector's comment about the spirit of eduroam, but like Ryan I have 
also be tempted in the past to only support 5 GHz in certain areas
because 2.4 GHz was becoming too much of a pain (e.g. Dormitories).  The 
eduroam Compliance Statement requires 802.11, no frequency mentioned.

eduroam users with 2.4GHz devices will just not see the available SSID if a 
school decides to only offer it at 5 GHz in certain locations.
In a sense it is no different than schools only offering eduroam in certain 
locations. 

Now, if the entire eduroam SSID for all locations at the school is on 5 GHz, it 
might be challenging.

But how many clients REALLY can’t support 5 GHz?
The stats showing 2.4 GHz VS 5 GHz usage can be deceiving. Is it a client with 
both radios and a poor selection of spectrum,
or is it really 2.4 Ghz only capable devices? It seems that the best way to 
know if 5 GHz only is fine for your community is to “just do it”.

I checked cheap laptops at BestBuy and under specifications you find 
“Wireless-AC” or “Wireless-B, G, N". No reference to the type of radio.
Those darn marketing people, they will get you every time.
 
Philippe

Philippe Hanset
www.anyroam.net
www.eduroam.us
+1 (865) 236-0770

GPG key id: 0xF2636F9C






> On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:04 AM, Turner, Ryan H <rhtur...@email.unc.edu> wrote:
> 
> I don't think so.  I think anytime a university enforces a uniform policy 
> that applies to all folks, it shouldn't be an issue.  Of course, we are a 
> long way from actually doing this.  We'll involve Phillipe if we move 
> forward.  
> 
> Sent from Outlook Mobile <https://aka.ms/qtex0l>
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:01 AM -0700, "Hector J Rios" <hr...@lsu.edu 
> <mailto:hr...@lsu.edu>> wrote:
> 
> I would go back to Jason's comment and reference eduroam's policy. I 
> personally think that only allowing 5GHz on eduroam goes against the spirit 
> the global availability of eduroam. My 2 cents.
> 
> Hector Rios
> Louisiana State University
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] On Behalf Of Matthew Newton
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:54 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
> 
> On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 01:27:04PM +, Joseph M. Karam wrote:
> > We offer 2.4 and 5 GHz service.  When we have conflicts, we work with 
> > departments to give them a channel in the 2.4 GHz space, then we take 
> > that channel out of our central infrastructure.
> > So, for example we gave engineering channel 6 for all of their labs, 
> > and we took that out of our central infrastructure.  So far it has 
> > worked well and we can play together nicely
> 
> What do you do after you've given the last remaining free 2.4Ghz channel to 
> the third department that requests one and you've got none left for 
> yourselves?
> 
> And presumably Engineering have lots of CCI because all of their APs are on 
> the same frequency?
> 
> Not critcising, just trying to understand! :)
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> --
> Matthew Newton, Ph.D. <m...@le.ac.uk <mailto:m...@le.ac.uk>>
> 
> Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University of 
> Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom
> 
> For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, <ith...@le.ac.uk 
> <mailto:ith...@le.ac.uk>>
> 
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/ 
> <http://www.educause.edu/groups/>.
> 
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/ 
> <http://www.educause.edu/groups/>.
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/ <http://www.educause.edu/groups/>.


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Jeffrey D. Sessler]

I’ve yet to see anyone in EDU approach seamless 5 coverage, and looking at a 
report of current 2.4/5 client anchoring won’t tell the whole story. You’d need 
to focus more on association reports to see what percentage of time a client is 
on 2.4 vs 5 over a wide time period. In one of our recently renovated 
residential building, when in their room/suite, the near majority of clients 
sit on 5 (no band steering involved), but when those devices start moving 
outside of the room, down halls, and out into courtyards, what band they anchor 
to can be unpredictable despite a “shock and awe” of access points. It’s simply 
impossible to predict, and as such, 2.4 is going to serve a “filler” role for a 
very long time.

I think Cisco has the right answer with the software defined radio, 
specifically taking it the extra step to make the radio dynamically adjust 
between 2.4/5 as the conditions warrant. It puts the complexity of RF 
engineering the hands of the software, and unlike a manual process of setting 
it based on a point-in-time need, it’s going to continually adjust. Coupled 
with the dynamic channel width, you’re going to get the best possible client 
experience without having to continuously turn knobs – unless turning knobs 
provides some sort of job security. :)

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of "Turner, Ryan H" 
<rhtur...@email.unc.edu<mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 6:47 AM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

As I am approaching the problem, I think there is a middle ground…  The middle 
ground is you elevate one SSID to 5 Gig only, and have a secondary SSID as 2.4. 
 In our situation, it would mean eduroam would be 5 and UNC-PSK would be 2.4 
and 5.  It creates an incentive for individuals to upgrade devices.  Also, 
since 2.4 is so cluttered, I think it makes troubleshooting easier to always 
know that if a client calls with an issue, you can know they were on the 5 gig 
band if they attached to one SSID.  Makes isolating the cause of the issue and 
replicating the issue much easier.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jerry Bucklaew
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 9:41 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

We are seeing the same, about 50/50


I would argue you are not going to turn off 2.4GHZ for a very long time.   It 
will take a while to get  all clients over to 5 GHZ.I see 2.4ghz becoming 
the place we put all the "Low bandwidth Non traditional" stuff.   You can leave 
your HVAC, Cameras, Controls, Specialty SSID's, Old clients, weird 
stuff.All on 2.4GHZ.  For most people who are not building new, we already 
paid for the 2.4GHZ radios.  Why not use the radios and bandwidth?   As people 
move to 5GHZ,  2.4GHZ will actually clear up and become a very usable choice, 
especially for low bandwidth stuff.
On 04/07/2016 09:24 AM, Hector J Rios wrote:
I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is the 
percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions? For us is still 
50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still see new laptops that only 
come with 2.4GHz adapters.

I would love to start turning off 2.4GHz in some areas of our campus, but I 
don’t think that’s an option for us at the moment.

[cid:image001.png@01D190B2.811747A0]

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Perry Correll
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 7:49 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Chris,

Not ‘chuckling’, just smiling as we are actually glad to see other vendors 
supporting this capability. Today we are seeing 70, 80, 90, even up to 95% 
clients supporting 5Ghz capabilities and the advancement of SDR capabilities 
enables IT administrators to more efficiently and effectively address this 
evolution. However Wi-Fi in the 2.4Ghz spectrum isn’t going away anytime soon 
either

Best Regards,
Perry


Perry Correll  |  Xirrus Principal Technologist


o: 805 376 5437  |  m: 321 505 7726




Fro

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Thomas Carter]

We’re a fairly small campus, but we have almost a 50/50 split:
na – 34%
ng – 24%
a  - 22%
g – 20%

so that gives 56% on 5GHz and 44% on 2.4GHz.


Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager
Austin College

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hector J Rios
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 8:24 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is the 
percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions? For us is still 
50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still see new laptops that only 
come with 2.4GHz adapters.

I would love to start turning off 2.4GHz in some areas of our campus, but I 
don’t think that’s an option for us at the moment.

[cid:image001.png@01D190AE.46186C50]

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Perry Correll
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 7:49 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Chris,

Not ‘chuckling’, just smiling as we are actually glad to see other vendors 
supporting this capability. Today we are seeing 70, 80, 90, even up to 95% 
clients supporting 5Ghz capabilities and the advancement of SDR capabilities 
enables IT administrators to more efficiently and effectively address this 
evolution. However Wi-Fi in the 2.4Ghz spectrum isn’t going away anytime soon 
either

Best Regards,
Perry


Perry Correll  |  Xirrus Principal Technologist


o: 805 376 5437  |  m: 321 505 7726




From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Adams (IT)
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:31 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Kees,

I think your skepticism is well founded. We have many locations with multiple 
5ghz radios in the same room, but multiple 5ghz on the same device will be a 
more “uncharted” territory for our deployment. I am in the process of getting a 
few AP250 to throw into a few of our smaller auditoriums, which should be a 
good test of their performance.

I do believe that the channel width may be a differentiator in how well the 
deployment works – we are using 20mhz in most locations, which eliminates many 
of the spectrum and channel availability issues found with 40mhz+ channel 
widths.

PS: I’m sure some of the Xirrus guys are chuckling at this conversation as 
Xirrus has been well known for having large SDR arrays for many years now ☺

Thanks,

Chris Adams, CISSP

Director, Network & Telecom Services
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kees Pronk
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 7:45 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Hi Chris,

“you could in theory double the airtime available”

I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few 
vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.

Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors marketing 
pages, but how about :
Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels plans 
(need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable DFS channels 
on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What about the 2 
radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at the same time.

Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this

1.   Innovation

2.   Marketing gimmick
(pick one ;-)

Best regards, Kees

Van: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Namens Larry Dougher
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11
Aan: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Onderwerp: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Thanks Chris!


Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services<http://its.wsesu.net>
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union<http://wsesu.net>
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email<mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net> | Google+<http://goo.gl/gEAdt> | 
Twitter<http://twitter.com/larrydougher> | 
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> | 802.674.8336

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Chris Adams (IT) 
<chris.ad...@ung.edu<mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu>> wrote:
Larry,

We have deployed 802.11ac WAPs in many l

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Turner, Ryan H]

I don't think so.  I think anytime a university enforces a uniform policy that 
applies to all folks, it shouldn't be an issue.  Of course, we are a long way 
from actually doing this.  We'll involve Phillipe if we move forward.

Sent from Outlook Mobile<https://aka.ms/qtex0l>




On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:01 AM -0700, "Hector J Rios" 
<hr...@lsu.edu<mailto:hr...@lsu.edu>> wrote:

I would go back to Jason's comment and reference eduroam's policy. I personally 
think that only allowing 5GHz on eduroam goes against the spirit the global 
availability of eduroam. My 2 cents.

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Newton
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:54 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 01:27:04PM +, Joseph M. Karam wrote:
> We offer 2.4 and 5 GHz service.  When we have conflicts, we work with
> departments to give them a channel in the 2.4 GHz space, then we take
> that channel out of our central infrastructure.
> So, for example we gave engineering channel 6 for all of their labs,
> and we took that out of our central infrastructure.  So far it has
> worked well and we can play together nicely

What do you do after you've given the last remaining free 2.4Ghz channel to the 
third department that requests one and you've got none left for yourselves?

And presumably Engineering have lots of CCI because all of their APs are on the 
same frequency?

Not critcising, just trying to understand! :)

Matthew


--
Matthew Newton, Ph.D. <m...@le.ac.uk>

Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University of 
Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom

For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, <ith...@le.ac.uk>

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Hector J Rios]

I would go back to Jason's comment and reference eduroam's policy. I personally 
think that only allowing 5GHz on eduroam goes against the spirit the global 
availability of eduroam. My 2 cents.

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Newton
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:54 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 01:27:04PM +, Joseph M. Karam wrote:
> We offer 2.4 and 5 GHz service.  When we have conflicts, we work with 
> departments to give them a channel in the 2.4 GHz space, then we take 
> that channel out of our central infrastructure.
> So, for example we gave engineering channel 6 for all of their labs, 
> and we took that out of our central infrastructure.  So far it has 
> worked well and we can play together nicely

What do you do after you've given the last remaining free 2.4Ghz channel to the 
third department that requests one and you've got none left for yourselves?

And presumably Engineering have lots of CCI because all of their APs are on the 
same frequency?

Not critcising, just trying to understand! :)

Matthew


--
Matthew Newton, Ph.D. <m...@le.ac.uk>

Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University of 
Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom

For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, <ith...@le.ac.uk>

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Joseph M. Karam]

Good point, Matthew.  Luckily this was a small scale change we made and has 
worked well so far for the departments involved.  This would not work at all 
for a complicated setup with many potential conflicts.

Joe



-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Matthew Newton
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 9:54 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 01:27:04PM +, Joseph M. Karam wrote:
> We offer 2.4 and 5 GHz service.  When we have conflicts, we work with 
> departments to give them a channel in the 2.4 GHz space, then we take 
> that channel out of our central infrastructure.
> So, for example we gave engineering channel 6 for all of their labs, 
> and we took that out of our central infrastructure.  So far it has 
> worked well and we can play together nicely

What do you do after you've given the last remaining free 2.4Ghz channel to the 
third department that requests one and you've got none left for yourselves?

And presumably Engineering have lots of CCI because all of their APs are on the 
same frequency?

Not critcising, just trying to understand! :)

Matthew


--
Matthew Newton, Ph.D. <m...@le.ac.uk>

Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University of 
Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom

For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, <ith...@le.ac.uk>

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Matthew Newton]

On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 01:27:04PM +, Joseph M. Karam wrote:
> We offer 2.4 and 5 GHz service.  When we have conflicts, we work
> with departments to give them a channel in the 2.4 GHz space,
> then we take that channel out of our central infrastructure.
> So, for example we gave engineering channel 6 for all of their
> labs, and we took that out of our central infrastructure.  So
> far it has worked well and we can play together nicely

What do you do after you've given the last remaining free 2.4Ghz
channel to the third department that requests one and you've got
none left for yourselves?

And presumably Engineering have lots of CCI because all of their
APs are on the same frequency?

Not critcising, just trying to understand! :)

Matthew


-- 
Matthew Newton, Ph.D. 

Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services,
I.T. Services, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom

For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, 

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Turner, Ryan H]

As I am approaching the problem, I think there is a middle ground…  The middle 
ground is you elevate one SSID to 5 Gig only, and have a secondary SSID as 2.4. 
 In our situation, it would mean eduroam would be 5 and UNC-PSK would be 2.4 
and 5.  It creates an incentive for individuals to upgrade devices.  Also, 
since 2.4 is so cluttered, I think it makes troubleshooting easier to always 
know that if a client calls with an issue, you can know they were on the 5 gig 
band if they attached to one SSID.  Makes isolating the cause of the issue and 
replicating the issue much easier.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jerry Bucklaew
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 9:41 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

We are seeing the same, about 50/50


I would argue you are not going to turn off 2.4GHZ for a very long time.   It 
will take a while to get  all clients over to 5 GHZ.I see 2.4ghz becoming 
the place we put all the "Low bandwidth Non traditional" stuff.   You can leave 
your HVAC, Cameras, Controls, Specialty SSID's, Old clients, weird 
stuff.All on 2.4GHZ.  For most people who are not building new, we already 
paid for the 2.4GHZ radios.  Why not use the radios and bandwidth?   As people 
move to 5GHZ,  2.4GHZ will actually clear up and become a very usable choice, 
especially for low bandwidth stuff.
On 04/07/2016 09:24 AM, Hector J Rios wrote:
I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is the 
percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions? For us is still 
50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still see new laptops that only 
come with 2.4GHz adapters.

I would love to start turning off 2.4GHz in some areas of our campus, but I 
don’t think that’s an option for us at the moment.

[cid:image001.png@01D190B2.811747A0]

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Perry Correll
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 7:49 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Chris,

Not ‘chuckling’, just smiling as we are actually glad to see other vendors 
supporting this capability. Today we are seeing 70, 80, 90, even up to 95% 
clients supporting 5Ghz capabilities and the advancement of SDR capabilities 
enables IT administrators to more efficiently and effectively address this 
evolution. However Wi-Fi in the 2.4Ghz spectrum isn’t going away anytime soon 
either

Best Regards,
Perry


Perry Correll  |  Xirrus Principal Technologist


o: 805 376 5437  |  m: 321 505 7726




From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Adams (IT)
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:31 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Kees,

I think your skepticism is well founded. We have many locations with multiple 
5ghz radios in the same room, but multiple 5ghz on the same device will be a 
more “uncharted” territory for our deployment. I am in the process of getting a 
few AP250 to throw into a few of our smaller auditoriums, which should be a 
good test of their performance.

I do believe that the channel width may be a differentiator in how well the 
deployment works – we are using 20mhz in most locations, which eliminates many 
of the spectrum and channel availability issues found with 40mhz+ channel 
widths.

PS: I’m sure some of the Xirrus guys are chuckling at this conversation as 
Xirrus has been well known for having large SDR arrays for many years now ☺

Thanks,

Chris Adams, CISSP

Director, Network & Telecom Services
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kees Pronk
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 7:45 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Hi Chris,

“you could in theory double the airtime available”

I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few 
vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.

Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors marketing 
pages, but how about :
Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels plans 
(need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable DFS channels 
on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What about the 2 
radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at the same time.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Jerry Bucklaew]

We are seeing the same, about 50/50


I would argue you are not going to turn off 2.4GHZ for a very long time. 
  It will take a while to get  all clients over to 5 GHZ.I see 
2.4ghz becoming the place we put all the "Low bandwidth Non traditional" 
stuff.   You can leave your HVAC, Cameras, Controls, Specialty SSID's, 
Old clients, weird stuff.All on 2.4GHZ.  For most people who are not 
building new, we already paid for the 2.4GHZ radios.  Why not use the 
radios and bandwidth?   As people move to 5GHZ,  2.4GHZ will actually 
clear up and become a very usable choice, especially for low bandwidth 
stuff.


On 04/07/2016 09:24 AM, Hector J Rios wrote:


I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is the 
percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions? For us 
is still 50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still see new 
laptops that only come with 2.4GHz adapters.


I would love to start turning off 2.4GHz in some areas of our campus, 
but I don’t think that’s an option for us at the moment.


Hector Rios

Louisiana State University

*From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Perry Correll

*Sent:* Thursday, April 07, 2016 7:49 AM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Chris,

Not ‘chuckling’, just smiling as we are actually glad to see other 
vendors supporting this capability. Today we are seeing 70, 80, 90, 
even up to 95% clients supporting 5Ghz capabilities and the 
advancement of SDR capabilities enables IT administrators to more 
efficiently and effectively address this evolution. However Wi-Fi in 
the 2.4Ghz spectrum isn’t going away anytime soon either


Best Regards,

Perry


*Perry Correll*  | /Xirrus Principal Technologist/


o: 805 376 5437  |  m: 321 505 7726

*From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Chris Adams 
(IT)

*Sent:* Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:31 AM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>

*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Kees,

I think your skepticism is well founded. We have many locations with 
multiple 5ghz radios in the same room, but multiple 5ghz on the same 
device will be a more “uncharted” territory for our deployment. I am 
in the process of getting a few AP250 to throw into a few of our 
smaller auditoriums, which should be a good test of their performance.


I do believe that the channel width may be a differentiator in how 
well the deployment works – we are using 20mhz in most locations, 
which eliminates many of the spectrum and channel availability issues 
found with 40mhz+ channel widths.


PS: I’m sure some of the Xirrus guys are chuckling at this 
conversation as Xirrus has been well known for having large SDR arrays 
for many years now J


Thanks,

**

Chris Adams, CISSP

Director, Network & Telecom Services

Division of Information Technology

University of North Georgia

*From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Kees Pronk

*Sent:* Thursday, April 7, 2016 7:45 AM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>

*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Hi Chris,

“you could in theory double the airtime available”

I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a 
few vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.


Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors 
marketing pages, but how about :


Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your 
channels plans (need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you 
must enable DFS channels on every AP but what about false positive 
radar detects? What about the 2 radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while 
trying so send/receive at the same time.


Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this

1.Innovation

2.Marketing gimmick

(pick one ;-)

Best regards, Kees

*Van:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *Namens *Larry Dougher

*Verzonden:* donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11
*Aan:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>

*Onderwerp:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Thanks Chris!


*Larry Dougher*
Chief Information Officer_
_Information Technology Services <http://its.wsesu.net>
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union <http://wsesu.net>
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email <mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net> | Google+ <http://goo.gl/gEAdt> | 
Twitter <http://twitter.com/larrydougher> | LinkedIn 
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> | 802.674.8336


O

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Joseph M. Karam]

We offer 2.4 and 5 GHz service.  When we have conflicts, we work with 
departments to give them a channel in the 2.4 GHz space, then we take that 
channel out of our central infrastructure.  So, for example we gave engineering 
channel 6 for all of their labs, and we took that out of our central 
infrastructure.  So far it has worked well and we can play together nicely ☺

Joe


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hector J Rios
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 9:24 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is the 
percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions? For us is still 
50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still see new laptops that only 
come with 2.4GHz adapters.

I would love to start turning off 2.4GHz in some areas of our campus, but I 
don’t think that’s an option for us at the moment.

[cid:image001.png@01D190AF.A4EE6B20]

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Perry Correll
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 7:49 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Chris,

Not ‘chuckling’, just smiling as we are actually glad to see other vendors 
supporting this capability. Today we are seeing 70, 80, 90, even up to 95% 
clients supporting 5Ghz capabilities and the advancement of SDR capabilities 
enables IT administrators to more efficiently and effectively address this 
evolution. However Wi-Fi in the 2.4Ghz spectrum isn’t going away anytime soon 
either

Best Regards,
Perry


Perry Correll  |  Xirrus Principal Technologist


o: 805 376 5437  |  m: 321 505 7726




From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Adams (IT)
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:31 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Kees,

I think your skepticism is well founded. We have many locations with multiple 
5ghz radios in the same room, but multiple 5ghz on the same device will be a 
more “uncharted” territory for our deployment. I am in the process of getting a 
few AP250 to throw into a few of our smaller auditoriums, which should be a 
good test of their performance.

I do believe that the channel width may be a differentiator in how well the 
deployment works – we are using 20mhz in most locations, which eliminates many 
of the spectrum and channel availability issues found with 40mhz+ channel 
widths.

PS: I’m sure some of the Xirrus guys are chuckling at this conversation as 
Xirrus has been well known for having large SDR arrays for many years now ☺

Thanks,

Chris Adams, CISSP

Director, Network & Telecom Services
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kees Pronk
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 7:45 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Hi Chris,

“you could in theory double the airtime available”

I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few 
vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.

Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors marketing 
pages, but how about :
Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels plans 
(need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable DFS channels 
on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What about the 2 
radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at the same time.

Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this

1.   Innovation

2.   Marketing gimmick
(pick one ;-)

Best regards, Kees

Van: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Namens Larry Dougher
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11
Aan: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Onderwerp: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Thanks Chris!


Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services<http://its.wsesu.net>
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union<http://wsesu.net>
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email<mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net> | Google+<http://goo.gl/gEAdt> | 
Twitter<http://twitter.com/larrydougher> | 
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> | 802.674.8336

On Wed

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Larry Dougher]

And the other question Hector is how many of those 2.4 clients ARE capable
of 5ghz but choose 2.4 instead, right?

*Larry Dougher*
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services <http://its.wsesu.net>
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union <http://wsesu.net>
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email <ldoug...@wsesu.net> | Google+ <http://goo.gl/gEAdt> | Twitter
<http://twitter.com/larrydougher> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> | 802.674.8336

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Hector J Rios <hr...@lsu.edu> wrote:

> I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is the
> percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions? For us is
> still 50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still see new laptops
> that only come with 2.4GHz adapters.
>
>
>
> I would love to start turning off 2.4GHz in some areas of our campus, but
> I don’t think that’s an option for us at the moment.
>
>
>
>
>
> Hector Rios
>
> Louisiana State University
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Perry Correll
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 07, 2016 7:49 AM
>
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>
>
>
> Chris,
>
>
>
> Not ‘chuckling’, just smiling as we are actually glad to see other vendors
> supporting this capability. Today we are seeing 70, 80, 90, even up to 95%
> clients supporting 5Ghz capabilities and the advancement of SDR
> capabilities enables IT administrators to more efficiently and effectively
> address this evolution. However Wi-Fi in the 2.4Ghz spectrum isn’t going
> away anytime soon either
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Perry
>
>
>
> *Perry Correll*  |  *Xirrus Principal Technologist*
>
> o: 805 376 5437  |  m: 321 505 7726
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [
> mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] *On Behalf Of *Chris Adams (IT)
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:31 AM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>
>
>
> Kees,
>
>
>
> I think your skepticism is well founded. We have many locations with
> multiple 5ghz radios in the same room, but multiple 5ghz on the same device
> will be a more “uncharted” territory for our deployment. I am in the
> process of getting a few AP250 to throw into a few of our smaller
> auditoriums, which should be a good test of their performance.
>
>
>
> I do believe that the channel width may be a differentiator in how well
> the deployment works – we are using 20mhz in most locations, which
> eliminates many of the spectrum and channel availability issues found with
> 40mhz+ channel widths.
>
>
>
> PS: I’m sure some of the Xirrus guys are chuckling at this conversation as
> Xirrus has been well known for having large SDR arrays for many years now
> J
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Chris Adams, CISSP
>
>
>
> Director, Network & Telecom Services
>
> Division of Information Technology
>
> University of North Georgia
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [
> mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] *On Behalf Of *Kees Pronk
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 7, 2016 7:45 AM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>
>
>
> Hi Chris,
>
>
>
> “you could in theory double the airtime available”
>
>
>
> I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few
> vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.
>
>
>
> Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors
> marketing pages, but how about :
>
> Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels
> plans (need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable
> DFS channels on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What
> about the 2 radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at
> the same time.
>
>
>
> Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this
>
> 1.   Innovation
>
> 2.   Marketing gimmick
>
> (pick one ;-)
>
>
>
> Best regards, Kees
>
>
>
> *Van:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [
> mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Turner, Ryan H]

What we are going to do is a test in one of our IT building of 5 GHz only wifi 
on eduroam.  We ran a report, and we are seeing about 25% of the connections 
running on 2.4.  We don’t know how many of these are a result of the failure to 
band steer, or if the devices are just not 5 gig capable.  We hope to have a 
better answer after the experiment.  We’re sending out some internal 
announcements about the test and hope to run it soon, for a few days.

Ryan

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hector J Rios
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 9:24 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is the 
percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions? For us is still 
50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still see new laptops that only 
come with 2.4GHz adapters.

I would love to start turning off 2.4GHz in some areas of our campus, but I 
don’t think that’s an option for us at the moment.

[cid:image001.png@01D190B0.13736AF0]

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Perry Correll
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 7:49 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Chris,

Not ‘chuckling’, just smiling as we are actually glad to see other vendors 
supporting this capability. Today we are seeing 70, 80, 90, even up to 95% 
clients supporting 5Ghz capabilities and the advancement of SDR capabilities 
enables IT administrators to more efficiently and effectively address this 
evolution. However Wi-Fi in the 2.4Ghz spectrum isn’t going away anytime soon 
either

Best Regards,
Perry


Perry Correll  |  Xirrus Principal Technologist


o: 805 376 5437  |  m: 321 505 7726




From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Adams (IT)
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:31 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Kees,

I think your skepticism is well founded. We have many locations with multiple 
5ghz radios in the same room, but multiple 5ghz on the same device will be a 
more “uncharted” territory for our deployment. I am in the process of getting a 
few AP250 to throw into a few of our smaller auditoriums, which should be a 
good test of their performance.

I do believe that the channel width may be a differentiator in how well the 
deployment works – we are using 20mhz in most locations, which eliminates many 
of the spectrum and channel availability issues found with 40mhz+ channel 
widths.

PS: I’m sure some of the Xirrus guys are chuckling at this conversation as 
Xirrus has been well known for having large SDR arrays for many years now ☺

Thanks,

Chris Adams, CISSP

Director, Network & Telecom Services
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kees Pronk
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 7:45 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Hi Chris,

“you could in theory double the airtime available”

I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few 
vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.

Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors marketing 
pages, but how about :
Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels plans 
(need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable DFS channels 
on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What about the 2 
radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at the same time.

Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this

1.   Innovation

2.   Marketing gimmick
(pick one ;-)

Best regards, Kees

Van: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Namens Larry Dougher
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11
Aan: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Onderwerp: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Thanks Chris!


Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services<http://its.wsesu.net>
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union<http://wsesu.net>
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email<mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net> | Google+<http://goo.gl/gEAdt> | 
Twitter<http://twitter.com/larrydough

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Hector J Rios]

I guess this brings up another good question, and that is, what is the 
percentage of 5GHz vs 2.4GHz you all see in your institutions? For us is still 
50-50. And it’s been like that for a while. I still see new laptops that only 
come with 2.4GHz adapters.

I would love to start turning off 2.4GHz in some areas of our campus, but I 
don’t think that’s an option for us at the moment.

[cid:image001.png@01D190A6.D2C56DE0]

Hector Rios
Louisiana State University

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Perry Correll
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 7:49 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Chris,

Not ‘chuckling’, just smiling as we are actually glad to see other vendors 
supporting this capability. Today we are seeing 70, 80, 90, even up to 95% 
clients supporting 5Ghz capabilities and the advancement of SDR capabilities 
enables IT administrators to more efficiently and effectively address this 
evolution. However Wi-Fi in the 2.4Ghz spectrum isn’t going away anytime soon 
either

Best Regards,
Perry


Perry Correll  |  Xirrus Principal Technologist


o: 805 376 5437  |  m: 321 505 7726




From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Adams (IT)
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:31 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Kees,

I think your skepticism is well founded. We have many locations with multiple 
5ghz radios in the same room, but multiple 5ghz on the same device will be a 
more “uncharted” territory for our deployment. I am in the process of getting a 
few AP250 to throw into a few of our smaller auditoriums, which should be a 
good test of their performance.

I do believe that the channel width may be a differentiator in how well the 
deployment works – we are using 20mhz in most locations, which eliminates many 
of the spectrum and channel availability issues found with 40mhz+ channel 
widths.

PS: I’m sure some of the Xirrus guys are chuckling at this conversation as 
Xirrus has been well known for having large SDR arrays for many years now ☺

Thanks,

Chris Adams, CISSP

Director, Network & Telecom Services
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kees Pronk
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 7:45 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Hi Chris,

“you could in theory double the airtime available”

I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few 
vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.

Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors marketing 
pages, but how about :
Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels plans 
(need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable DFS channels 
on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What about the 2 
radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at the same time.

Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this

1.   Innovation

2.   Marketing gimmick
(pick one ;-)

Best regards, Kees

Van: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Namens Larry Dougher
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11
Aan: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Onderwerp: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Thanks Chris!


Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services<http://its.wsesu.net>
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union<http://wsesu.net>
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email<mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net> | Google+<http://goo.gl/gEAdt> | 
Twitter<http://twitter.com/larrydougher> | 
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> | 802.674.8336

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Chris Adams (IT) 
<chris.ad...@ung.edu<mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu>> wrote:
Larry,

We have deployed 802.11ac WAPs in many locations, but only have 80mhz channels 
enabled sparingly around campus. My hope is that by having the SDR option, we 
could configure 2x 5ghz radios with either 20Mhz or 40Mhz channels, logically 
operating as 2 WAPs. Our wireless use case is primarily for internet access – 
we just don’t have a need for true wave1/2 802.11ac throughputs at this time.

To see true Wave2 throughputs, I believe the client WNIC would need to be 
upgraded. If we could operate 2 “logical” 5ghz WAPs from a single unit for a 
small increase in price, I think 

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Perry Correll]

Chris,

Not ‘chuckling’, just smiling as we are actually glad to see other vendors 
supporting this capability. Today we are seeing 70, 80, 90, even up to 95% 
clients supporting 5Ghz capabilities and the advancement of SDR capabilities 
enables IT administrators to more efficiently and effectively address this 
evolution. However Wi-Fi in the 2.4Ghz spectrum isn’t going away anytime soon 
either

Best Regards,
Perry


Perry Correll  |  Xirrus Principal Technologist


o: 805 376 5437  |  m: 321 505 7726




From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Adams (IT)
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 8:31 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Kees,

I think your skepticism is well founded. We have many locations with multiple 
5ghz radios in the same room, but multiple 5ghz on the same device will be a 
more “uncharted” territory for our deployment. I am in the process of getting a 
few AP250 to throw into a few of our smaller auditoriums, which should be a 
good test of their performance.

I do believe that the channel width may be a differentiator in how well the 
deployment works – we are using 20mhz in most locations, which eliminates many 
of the spectrum and channel availability issues found with 40mhz+ channel 
widths.

PS: I’m sure some of the Xirrus guys are chuckling at this conversation as 
Xirrus has been well known for having large SDR arrays for many years now ☺

Thanks,

Chris Adams, CISSP

Director, Network & Telecom Services
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kees Pronk
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 7:45 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Hi Chris,

“you could in theory double the airtime available”

I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few 
vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.

Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors marketing 
pages, but how about :
Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels plans 
(need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable DFS channels 
on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What about the 2 
radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at the same time.

Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this

1.   Innovation

2.   Marketing gimmick
(pick one ;-)

Best regards, Kees

Van: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Namens Larry Dougher
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11
Aan: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Onderwerp: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Thanks Chris!


Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services<http://its.wsesu.net>
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union<http://wsesu.net>
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email<mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net> | Google+<http://goo.gl/gEAdt> | 
Twitter<http://twitter.com/larrydougher> | 
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> | 802.674.8336

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Chris Adams (IT) 
<chris.ad...@ung.edu<mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu>> wrote:
Larry,

We have deployed 802.11ac WAPs in many locations, but only have 80mhz channels 
enabled sparingly around campus. My hope is that by having the SDR option, we 
could configure 2x 5ghz radios with either 20Mhz or 40Mhz channels, logically 
operating as 2 WAPs. Our wireless use case is primarily for internet access – 
we just don’t have a need for true wave1/2 802.11ac throughputs at this time.

To see true Wave2 throughputs, I believe the client WNIC would need to be 
upgraded. If we could operate 2 “logical” 5ghz WAPs from a single unit for a 
small increase in price, I think this is where our greatest benefit would be at 
this time as you could in theory double the airtime available.

This is based on several assumptions I am making – I have not gotten my hands 
on the new AP250 yet but I am actively looking to do so.

http://boundless.aerohive.com/blog/Designing-WLANS-What-If-we-could-double-our-airtime-at-5-GHz.html


Thanks,

Chris Adams

Director, Network & Telecom Services
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>]
 On Behalf Of Larry Dougher
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 2:28 PM

To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU&g

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Chris Adams (IT)]

Kees,

 

I think your skepticism is well founded. We have many locations with multiple 
5ghz radios in the same room, but multiple 5ghz on the same device will be a 
more “uncharted” territory for our deployment. I am in the process of getting a 
few AP250 to throw into a few of our smaller auditoriums, which should be a 
good test of their performance.

 

I do believe that the channel width may be a differentiator in how well the 
deployment works – we are using 20mhz in most locations, which eliminates many 
of the spectrum and channel availability issues found with 40mhz+ channel 
widths.

 

PS: I’m sure some of the Xirrus guys are chuckling at this conversation as 
Xirrus has been well known for having large SDR arrays for many years now :)

 

Thanks,

 

Chris Adams, CISSP

 

Director, Network & Telecom Services

Division of Information Technology

University of North Georgia

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kees Pronk
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 7:45 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

 

Hi Chris,

 

“you could in theory double the airtime available”

 

I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few 
vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.

 

Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors marketing 
pages, but how about :

Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels plans 
(need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable DFS channels 
on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What about the 2 
radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at the same time.

 

Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this

1.   Innovation

2.   Marketing gimmick

(pick one ;-)

 

Best regards, Kees

 

Van: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Namens Larry Dougher
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11
Aan: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
Onderwerp: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

 

Thanks Chris!




Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services <http://its.wsesu.net> 
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union <http://wsesu.net> 
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email <mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net>  | Google+ <http://goo.gl/gEAdt>  | Twitter 
<http://twitter.com/larrydougher>  | LinkedIn 
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher>  | 802.674.8336

 

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Chris Adams (IT) <chris.ad...@ung.edu 
<mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu> > wrote:

Larry,

 

We have deployed 802.11ac WAPs in many locations, but only have 80mhz channels 
enabled sparingly around campus. My hope is that by having the SDR option, we 
could configure 2x 5ghz radios with either 20Mhz or 40Mhz channels, logically 
operating as 2 WAPs. Our wireless use case is primarily for internet access – 
we just don’t have a need for true wave1/2 802.11ac throughputs at this time.

 

To see true Wave2 throughputs, I believe the client WNIC would need to be 
upgraded. If we could operate 2 “logical” 5ghz WAPs from a single unit for a 
small increase in price, I think this is where our greatest benefit would be at 
this time as you could in theory double the airtime available.

 

This is based on several assumptions I am making – I have not gotten my hands 
on the new AP250 yet but I am actively looking to do so.

 

http://boundless.aerohive.com/blog/Designing-WLANS-What-If-we-could-double-our-airtime-at-5-GHz.html

 

 

Thanks,

 

Chris Adams

 

Director, Network & Telecom Services

Division of Information Technology

University of North Georgia

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> ] On Behalf Of Larry Dougher
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 2:28 PM


To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

 

Chris,

 

I have a question about the AP250, but may be a question about MU-MIMO more 
generally.  So, all things being equal, would a 5Ghz 802.11ac device/client see 
any benefit from a Wave 2 AP or would that device/client have to have an 
upgraded/new 802.11ac 5Ghz Wave 2 chip to see a benefit?

 

Thanks,




Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services <http://its.wsesu.net> 
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union <http://wsesu.net> 
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email <mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net>  | Google+ <http://goo.gl/gEAdt>  | Twitter 
<http://twitter.com/larrydougher>  | LinkedIn 
<

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Kees Pronk]

Hi Chris,

“you could in theory double the airtime available”

I would be interested in your actual experience with this. Now that a few 
vendors have taken this approach and others stay away from this.

Arguments in favor of 5/5 you will find these abundant on the vendors marketing 
pages, but how about :
Extra COGS (band pass filters etc), extra complexity with your channels plans 
(need a lot of separation between the 5/5 radios), you must enable DFS channels 
on every AP but what about false positive radar detects? What about the 2 
radio’s  ‘deafening’ each other while trying so send/receive at the same time.

Please keep us posted and maybe others testing with this

1.   Innovation

2.   Marketing gimmick
(pick one ;-)

Best regards, Kees

Van: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] Namens Larry Dougher
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 03:11
Aan: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Onderwerp: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Thanks Chris!


Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services<http://its.wsesu.net>
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union<http://wsesu.net>
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email<mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net> | Google+<http://goo.gl/gEAdt> | 
Twitter<http://twitter.com/larrydougher> | 
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> | 802.674.8336

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Chris Adams (IT) 
<chris.ad...@ung.edu<mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu>> wrote:
Larry,

We have deployed 802.11ac WAPs in many locations, but only have 80mhz channels 
enabled sparingly around campus. My hope is that by having the SDR option, we 
could configure 2x 5ghz radios with either 20Mhz or 40Mhz channels, logically 
operating as 2 WAPs. Our wireless use case is primarily for internet access – 
we just don’t have a need for true wave1/2 802.11ac throughputs at this time.

To see true Wave2 throughputs, I believe the client WNIC would need to be 
upgraded. If we could operate 2 “logical” 5ghz WAPs from a single unit for a 
small increase in price, I think this is where our greatest benefit would be at 
this time as you could in theory double the airtime available.

This is based on several assumptions I am making – I have not gotten my hands 
on the new AP250 yet but I am actively looking to do so.

http://boundless.aerohive.com/blog/Designing-WLANS-What-If-we-could-double-our-airtime-at-5-GHz.html


Thanks,

Chris Adams

Director, Network & Telecom Services
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>]
 On Behalf Of Larry Dougher
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 2:28 PM

To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

Chris,

I have a question about the AP250, but may be a question about MU-MIMO more 
generally.  So, all things being equal, would a 5Ghz 802.11ac device/client see 
any benefit from a Wave 2 AP or would that device/client have to have an 
upgraded/new 802.11ac 5Ghz Wave 2 chip to see a benefit?

Thanks,


Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services<http://its.wsesu.net>
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union<http://wsesu.net>
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email<mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net> | Google+<http://goo.gl/gEAdt> | 
Twitter<http://twitter.com/larrydougher> | 
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> | 
802.674.8336

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Chris Adams (IT) 
<chris.ad...@ung.edu<mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu>> wrote:
I echo Jeremy’s sentiment – our experience with band-steering has been 
overwhelmingly positive. We are also not (currently) using DFS channels – but 
may be revisiting this soon. I’d estimate almost 2/3 of our 2.4ghz radios are 
disabled.

I am very happy to see the new Aerohive AP250 has a SDR with the option of 
disabling the 2.4ghz radio in favor of having 2x 5ghz radios.

Thanks,

Chris Adams

Director, Network & Telecom Services
Division of Information Technology
University of North Georgia

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>]
 On Behalf Of Jeremy Gibbs
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 1:27 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

I find the opposite to be true with band steering.  If we turn it off, the 
majority of our clients won't connect to 5 Ghz, even if they are right above an 
AP.  This causes lots of disconnect problems and congestion in the 2.4 Ghz 
spectrum.  Turning band steering on fixes 

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Larry Dougher]

Thanks Chris!

*Larry Dougher*
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services <http://its.wsesu.net>
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union <http://wsesu.net>
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email <ldoug...@wsesu.net> | Google+ <http://goo.gl/gEAdt> | Twitter
<http://twitter.com/larrydougher> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> | 802.674.8336

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Chris Adams (IT) <chris.ad...@ung.edu>
wrote:

> Larry,
>
>
>
> We have deployed 802.11ac WAPs in many locations, but only have 80mhz
> channels enabled sparingly around campus. My hope is that by having the SDR
> option, we could configure 2x 5ghz radios with either 20Mhz or 40Mhz
> channels, logically operating as 2 WAPs. Our wireless use case is primarily
> for internet access – we just don’t have a need for true wave1/2 802.11ac
> throughputs at this time.
>
>
>
> To see true Wave2 throughputs, I believe the client WNIC would need to be
> upgraded. If we could operate 2 “logical” 5ghz WAPs from a single unit for
> a small increase in price, I think this is where our greatest benefit would
> be at this time as you could in theory double the airtime available.
>
>
>
> This is based on several assumptions I am making – I have not gotten my
> hands on the new AP250 yet but I am actively looking to do so.
>
>
>
>
> http://boundless.aerohive.com/blog/Designing-WLANS-What-If-we-could-double-our-airtime-at-5-GHz.html
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Chris Adams
>
>
>
> Director, Network & Telecom Services
>
> Division of Information Technology
>
> University of North Georgia
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Larry Dougher
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 6, 2016 2:28 PM
>
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>
>
>
> Chris,
>
>
>
> I have a question about the AP250, but may be a question about MU-MIMO
> more generally.  So, all things being equal, would a 5Ghz 802.11ac
> device/client see any benefit from a Wave 2 AP or would that device/client
> have to have an upgraded/new 802.11ac 5Ghz Wave 2 chip to see a benefit?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> *Larry Dougher*
> Chief Information Officer
> Information Technology Services <http://its.wsesu.net>
> Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union <http://wsesu.net>
> 127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
> Email <ldoug...@wsesu.net> | Google+ <http://goo.gl/gEAdt> | Twitter
> <http://twitter.com/larrydougher> | LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher> | 802.674.8336
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Chris Adams (IT) <chris.ad...@ung.edu>
> wrote:
>
> I echo Jeremy’s sentiment – our experience with band-steering has been
> overwhelmingly positive. We are also not (currently) using DFS channels –
> but may be revisiting this soon. I’d estimate almost 2/3 of our 2.4ghz
> radios are disabled.
>
>
>
> I am very happy to see the new Aerohive AP250 has a SDR with the option of
> disabling the 2.4ghz radio in favor of having 2x 5ghz radios.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Chris Adams
>
>
>
> Director, Network & Telecom Services
>
> Division of Information Technology
>
> University of North Georgia
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy Gibbs
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 6, 2016 1:27 PM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?
>
>
>
> I find the opposite to be true with band steering.  If we turn it off, the
> majority of our clients won't connect to 5 Ghz, even if they are right
> above an AP.  This causes lots of disconnect problems and congestion in the
> 2.4 Ghz spectrum.  Turning band steering on fixes the problem for us.
>
>
>
>
>
> *--Jeremy L. Gibbs*
>
> Sr. Network Engineer
> Utica College IITS
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Turner, Ryan H <rhtur...@email.unc.edu>
> wrote:
>
> All,
>
>
>
> This is probably a fool’s errand, but we are debating experimenting with
> turning off the 2.4 spectrum on our eduroam SSID on parts of campus that
> have a dense 5 gig coverage.  We’ve always positioned eduroam as the
> premium SSID, and left a WPA2-PSK SSID for all the rest that don’t support
> advanced EAP methods.  We are debating trying this in just the IT building
> to start (see how many people scream).  Has anyone

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Chris Adams (IT)]

Larry,

 

We have deployed 802.11ac WAPs in many locations, but only have 80mhz channels 
enabled sparingly around campus. My hope is that by having the SDR option, we 
could configure 2x 5ghz radios with either 20Mhz or 40Mhz channels, logically 
operating as 2 WAPs. Our wireless use case is primarily for internet access – 
we just don’t have a need for true wave1/2 802.11ac throughputs at this time.

 

To see true Wave2 throughputs, I believe the client WNIC would need to be 
upgraded. If we could operate 2 “logical” 5ghz WAPs from a single unit for a 
small increase in price, I think this is where our greatest benefit would be at 
this time as you could in theory double the airtime available.

 

This is based on several assumptions I am making – I have not gotten my hands 
on the new AP250 yet but I am actively looking to do so.

 

http://boundless.aerohive.com/blog/Designing-WLANS-What-If-we-could-double-our-airtime-at-5-GHz.html

 

 

Thanks,

 

Chris Adams

 

Director, Network & Telecom Services

Division of Information Technology

University of North Georgia

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Larry Dougher
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 2:28 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

 

Chris,

 

I have a question about the AP250, but may be a question about MU-MIMO more 
generally.  So, all things being equal, would a 5Ghz 802.11ac device/client see 
any benefit from a Wave 2 AP or would that device/client have to have an 
upgraded/new 802.11ac 5Ghz Wave 2 chip to see a benefit?

 

Thanks,




Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services <http://its.wsesu.net> 
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union <http://wsesu.net> 
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email <mailto:ldoug...@wsesu.net>  | Google+ <http://goo.gl/gEAdt>  | Twitter 
<http://twitter.com/larrydougher>  | LinkedIn 
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/larrydougher>  | 802.674.8336

 

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Chris Adams (IT) <chris.ad...@ung.edu 
<mailto:chris.ad...@ung.edu> > wrote:

I echo Jeremy’s sentiment – our experience with band-steering has been 
overwhelmingly positive. We are also not (currently) using DFS channels – but 
may be revisiting this soon. I’d estimate almost 2/3 of our 2.4ghz radios are 
disabled.

 

I am very happy to see the new Aerohive AP250 has a SDR with the option of 
disabling the 2.4ghz radio in favor of having 2x 5ghz radios.

 

Thanks,

 

Chris Adams

 

Director, Network & Telecom Services

Division of Information Technology

University of North Georgia

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> ] On Behalf Of Jeremy Gibbs
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 1:27 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

 

I find the opposite to be true with band steering.  If we turn it off, the 
majority of our clients won't connect to 5 Ghz, even if they are right above an 
AP.  This causes lots of disconnect problems and congestion in the 2.4 Ghz 
spectrum.  Turning band steering on fixes the problem for us.  







--

Jeremy L. Gibbs

Sr. Network Engineer
Utica College IITS

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Turner, Ryan H <rhtur...@email.unc.edu 
<mailto:rhtur...@email.unc.edu> > wrote:

All,

 

This is probably a fool’s errand, but we are debating experimenting with 
turning off the 2.4 spectrum on our eduroam SSID on parts of campus that have a 
dense 5 gig coverage.  We’ve always positioned eduroam as the premium SSID, and 
left a WPA2-PSK SSID for all the rest that don’t support advanced EAP methods.  
We are debating trying this in just the IT building to start (see how many 
people scream).  Has anyone done anything like this?  The goals would be to 
continually remove traffic from the garbage bands, hopefully increasing client 
performance.  Band steering isn’t very good.  

 

Thanks,

Ryan Turner

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

r...@unc.edu <mailto:r...@unc.edu> 

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 

 

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 

 

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 


***

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Turning off 2.4 on a select SSID?

[Jeremy Gibbs]

I find the opposite to be true with band steering.  If we turn it off, the
majority of our clients won't connect to 5 Ghz, even if they are right
above an AP.  This causes lots of disconnect problems and congestion in the
2.4 Ghz spectrum.  Turning band steering on fixes the problem for us.




*--Jeremy L. Gibbs*
Sr. Network Engineer
Utica College IITS

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Turner, Ryan H 
wrote:

> All,
>
>
>
> This is probably a fool’s errand, but we are debating experimenting with
> turning off the 2.4 spectrum on our eduroam SSID on parts of campus that
> have a dense 5 gig coverage.  We’ve always positioned eduroam as the
> premium SSID, and left a WPA2-PSK SSID for all the rest that don’t support
> advanced EAP methods.  We are debating trying this in just the IT building
> to start (see how many people scream).  Has anyone done anything like
> this?  The goals would be to continually remove traffic from the garbage
> bands, hopefully increasing client performance.  Band steering isn’t very
> good.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan Turner
>
> The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
>
> r...@unc.edu
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>
>

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.