Re: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority
Just came across this thread and by coincidence I had been told about the site and tossed off this email to them: --- I thought I would take the time to make you aware of some problems with your website. The site does not communicate to Mac users at all. In Safari 2, the most common MacOSX browser, none of the navigation bars (left or top) appear at all. On IE5, the most common browser for MacOS9 users, navigating to your site brings up a page of code - no site. On Mozilla, a common open source browser recommended as the best browser available in last week's Sydney Morning Herald, the navigation also does not work. These problems would be serious for any website, but for the Australian Communications Authority I would have thought they were disastrous. If you are interested I can make recommendations on how to make your site standards compliant across the entire range of browsers, with simple xhtml and css coding. The Sydney Morning Herald (www.smh.com.au) and The Age (www.theage.com.au) have recently converted their sites to this approach, which is widely recognised as the future of the web. You can cut the size of your pages in half (faster site loads and less server demand) and make the site compatible to ALL users, not just a percentage. My company, Universal Head, has ten years experience in design and specialises in online communications. I would be happy to discuss the possibilities with you further. Best regards Peter Gifford --- On 02/05/2004, at 6:41 PM, Rob Unsworth wrote: An official press release from the Web Standards Group would carry more weight than an individual. Written by someone with better journalistic skills that yours truly. x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerUniversal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority
Three cheers for Web Standards evangelism! Kudos for making the effort to spread the gospel, but I don't know if I agree with the approach. Fair enough that you'd like to win the job, but the end of the email starts sounding like marketing spam. A political approach might be more effective for getting them to think about it because the last thing any government department wants to think about is more costs and they could be to short-sighted to consider the long-term gains... Just my $0.02... Mt. -Original Message- From: Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority Just came across this thread and by coincidence I had been told about the site and tossed off this email to them: --- I thought I would take the time to make you aware of some problems with your website. The site does not communicate to Mac users at all. In Safari 2, the most common MacOSX browser, none of the navigation bars (left or top) appear at all. On IE5, the most common browser for MacOS9 users, navigating to your site brings up a page of code - no site. On Mozilla, a common open source browser recommended as the best browser available in last week's Sydney Morning Herald, the navigation also does not work. These problems would be serious for any website, but for the Australian Communications Authority I would have thought they were disastrous. If you are interested I can make recommendations on how to make your site standards compliant across the entire range of browsers, with simple xhtml and css coding. The Sydney Morning Herald (www.smh.com.au) and The Age (www.theage.com.au) have recently converted their sites to this approach, which is widely recognised as the future of the web. You can cut the size of your pages in half (faster site loads and less server demand) and make the site compatible to ALL users, not just a percentage. My company, Universal Head, has ten years experience in design and specialises in online communications. I would be happy to discuss the possibilities with you further. Best regards Peter Gifford --- On 02/05/2004, at 6:41 PM, Rob Unsworth wrote: An official press release from the Web Standards Group would carry more weight than an individual. Written by someone with better journalistic skills that yours truly. Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority (Out of office)
Sorry, I'm away Thurs AM for study. I will read your email when I return. For any urgent Intranet queries or assistance please contact Marion Haworth on 02 9230 8542 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Many thanks, Leon Wild. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/05/04 18:15 You're right, but in my defense I didn't actually put a huge amount of thought into it because a) I doubt any decision-makers would see it b) since they've just 'redesigned' the site coff I don't think they'd be keen to spend more money c) the job would be a *%^ nightmare ... I wrote it to tell them it doesn't work - the job pitch was just an afterthought! :) Peter On 05/05/2004, at 4:59 PM, Miles Tillinger wrote: Three cheers for Web Standards evangelism! Kudos for making the effort to spread the gospel, but I don't know if I agree with the approach. Fair enough that you'd like to win the job, but the end of the email starts sounding like marketing spam. A political approach might be more effective for getting them to think about it because the last thing any government department wants to think about is more costs and they could be to short-sighted to consider the long-term gains... Just my $0.02... Mt. Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority
Jeez mate give me a break. Just because every site I've done doesn't get the little W3C gold star doesn't mean I'm not making professional sites. And since I've been making sites since the web started, and designing for years before that, some jobs go back ten years. They were cutting edge enough at the time. Like every job I do, if I was commissioned to do the ACA site, I would make sure that I designed and made, or had made, a site that was appropriate for the client, their audience, and what they were trying to communicate. I might even make it viewable for Mac users, for example ... There's a world of difference between a site for the ACA and a graphic design portfolio. If my showcase site was designed in the same way as an ACA site I would not be communicating to my audience much about my visual skills, especially since I have done and do everything from computer game 3D to corporate ID as well as websites. For example, I also do Flash work. You might just as well complain that the client who wants me to do Flash work could go to my site, find a static xhtml/css site and would therefore conclude I don't practice what I preach. Or the computer game client finds solid flat colours and concludes I don't do 3D. Etcetera. Personally, while I'm on this list and now largely make web standards sites with xhtml and css, I still believe there's a place for Flash, and at the moment, my portfolio is one of those places. As for the nav, when it says 'select an icon', try rolling over an icon. It won't kill you, and you'll only lose a second or two from your day. So ptt! ;) Peter PS On my site now the Latest Work feature is the Jands.com.au site, which is pretty bloody web standard. On 05/05/2004, at 6:50 PM, Andy Budd wrote: I think more of a problem is that your own website and many in your portfolio don't really reflect the qualities that you are trying to sell to this client. If I was a web savvy procurement officer, your email would definitely spark my interest. However going to your site I would see that you don't appear to practice what you preach and would look elsewhere. p.s. Your main nav is pretty user-unfriendly. It's not obvious that these are actually nav items. You're forcing people to guess what they do and to roll over them to reveal where they go. Universal Head wrote: You're right, but in my defense I didn't actually put a huge amount of thought into it because a) I doubt any decision-makers would see it b) since they've just 'redesigned' the site coff> I don't think they'd be keen to spend more money c) the job would be a *%^ nightmare ... I wrote it to tell them it doesn't work - the job pitch was just an afterthought! Miles Tillinger wrote: Three cheers for Web Standards evangelism! Kudos for making the effort to spread the gospel, but I don't know if I agree with the approach. Fair enough that you'd like to win the job, but the end of the email starts sounding like marketing spam. A political approach might be more effective for getting them to think about it because the last thing any government department wants to think about is more costs and they could be to short-sighted to consider the long-term gains... E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerUniversal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
Re: [WSG] XHTML considered useful
Mark Stanton wrote: Well at least someone has found a use for it - http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/05/02/user-friendly-feeds That's just the beginning ;) XML is by far more powerful than what we see today. The bottleneck is the client software. I'm very anxious to see new technologies like XForms, XInclude and SVG (or XUL and XAML) in action. XForms Institute: Tutorial 1: Introduction http://xformsinstitute.com/lesson1.php XInclude Tutorial http://www.zvon.org/xxl/XIncludeTutorial/Output/index.html An Introduction to Scalable Vector Graphics http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2001/03/21/svg.html XUL Tutorial http://xulplanet.mozdev.org/tutorials/xultu/ Longhorn Developer Center: Chapter 3: Controls and XAML (Introducing Longhorn for Developers) http://msdn.microsoft.com/longhorn/default.aspx?pull=/library/en-us/dnintlong/html/longhornch03.asp Is this our future? Personally, I hope that open standards will be my friendly companions. Tonico -- Tonico Strasser ?:-) http://Tonico.FreeZope.org Contact_Tonico at Yahoo dot de Check out http://www.WebProducer.at * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority
Sorry mate (and the WSG). I was merely giving you my reaction to your post. I was just saying that If I was in the shoes of the person you emailed, my first reaction would be to go and visit your site. On visiting said site I'd think, what a loverly looking flash portfolio with lot's of nice sites. However it doesn't really reflect the type of site I want or the theme of your email. I think with any marketing message your website needs to back up you're main proposition, or you are in risk of loosing the prospect at the last hurdle. Universal Head wrote: Jeez mate give me a break. Just because every site I've done doesn't get the little W3C gold star doesn't mean I'm not making professional sites. And since I've been making sites since the web started, and designing for years before that, some jobs go back ten years. They were cutting edge enough at the time. Like every job I do, if I was commissioned to do the ACA site, I would make sure that I designed and made, or had made, a site that was appropriate for the client, their audience, and what they were trying to communicate. I might even make it viewable for Mac users, for example ... There's a world of difference between a site for the ACA and a graphic design portfolio. If my showcase site was designed in the same way as an ACA site I would not be communicating to my audience much about my visual skills, especially since I have done and do everything from computer game 3D to corporate ID as well as websites. For example, I also do Flash work. You might just as well complain that the client who wants me to do Flash work could go to my site, find a static xhtml/css site and would therefore conclude I don't practice what I preach. Or the computer game client finds solid flat colours and concludes I don't do 3D. Etcetera. Personally, while I'm on this list and now largely make web standards sites with xhtml and css, I still believe there's a place for Flash, and at the moment, my portfolio is one of those places. As for the nav, when it says 'select an icon', try rolling over an icon. It won't kill you, and you'll only lose a second or two from your day. Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Re: Ten questions for Anne van Kesteren
Tim Lucas wrote: If you don't need to serve valid XML, and you can not systematically serve well formed XML documents, then I recommend sticking with a less strict data format (such as XHTML transitional). XML is a strict data format and, like most, can't reliably be written by hand without some level of QA. Tim, I thought XHTML transitional _is_ XML. In what way is XHTML transitional is a less strict data format? Cheers, Chris * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Re: Ten questions for Anne van Kesteren
I thought XHTML transitional _is_ XML. In what way is XHTML transitional is a less strict data format? It's a transition. It's a half-way house between HTML 4 and XHTML as it is intended (XHTML Strict). Patrick Griffiths (PTG) http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/ http://www.htmldog.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Re: Ten questions for Anne van Kesteren
I thought XHTML transitional _is_ XML. In what way is XHTML transitional is a less strict data format? It's a transition. It's a half-way house between HTML 4 and XHTML as it is intended (XHTML Strict). Patrick Griffiths (PTG) http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/ http://www.htmldog.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Re: Ten questions for Anne van Kesteren
I thought XHTML transitional _is_ XML. In what way is XHTML transitional is a less strict data format? It's a transition. It's a half-way house between HTML 4 and XHTML as it is intended (XHTML Strict). Patrick Griffiths (PTG) http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/ http://www.htmldog.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Next IE version coming soon?
http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2004/05/04.html#a7387 Robert Scoble writes: While we're on it, this page has one falsehood. It says that the next version of Internet Explorer won't come out until Longhorn. That is absolutely NOT true. The next version of Internet Explorer comes with a ton of security fixes, and a pop-up-ad blocker. It will be included in Windows XP, Service Pack 2. For free. http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2004/05/04.html#a7387 Hm, will they make it more standards compliant as well? Will it work in older versions of Windows? Tonico -- Tonico Strasser ?:-) http://Tonico.FreeZope.org Contact_Tonico at Yahoo dot de Check out http://www.WebProducer.at * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Re: Ten questions for Anne van Kesteren
On 05/05/2004, at 10:09 PM, Patrick Griffiths wrote: I thought XHTML transitional _is_ XML. In what way is XHTML transitional is a less strict data format? It's a transition. It's a half-way house between HTML 4 and XHTML as it is intended (XHTML Strict). Are you saying that XHTML transitional is a less strict data format than XML too or are you off on some tangent? If the the former then please explain in it more detail, I really am under the impression that XHTML transitional is XML - that being so, in what way can it (XHTML transitional) be a less strict data format (than XML)? http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/REC-xhtml1-20020801/#normative Cheers, Chris. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Re: Ten questions for Anne van Kesteren
On 06/05/2004, at 12:03 AM, Chris Bentley wrote: On 05/05/2004, at 10:09 PM, Patrick Griffiths wrote: I thought XHTML transitional _is_ XML. In what way is XHTML transitional is a less strict data format? It's a transition. It's a half-way house between HTML 4 and XHTML as it is intended (XHTML Strict). Are you saying that XHTML transitional is a less strict data format than XML too or are you off on some tangent? If the the former then please explain in it more detail, I really am under the impression that XHTML transitional is XML - that being so, in what way can it (XHTML transitional) be a less strict data format (than XML)? I *think* that the transitional aspect is related to the set of available tags, rather than it's XML suitability. A lot of behavioural/presentational tags and tag attributes were removed from strict, but left in for transitional. Whether XHTML is valid XML is beyond my knowledge, but I believe it is. --- Justin French http://indent.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Re: Next IE version coming soon?
At 16:02 5/5/2004 +0200, Tonico Strasser wrote: http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2004/05/04.html#a7387 Hm, will they make it more standards compliant as well? Will it work in older versions of Windows? Hum, I don´t believe. Presto (Opera) and Gecko (Mozilla) engines pass a profound redesign of your engines to assimile web standards. Safari utilizes the KHTML engine, previously web standard compliant, AFAIK. The trouble with IE is your engine require a profound redesign to assimile web standards. But a redesign of your engine can cause conflicts with dozen applications of Windows what depends actually of MS HTML Viewer. But, between IE v5 and v5.5 (Windows), has a notable move to adopt web standard compliance. Not complete, but notable. If supports PNG with alpha channell, is good enough for me. CSS 2, I believe so much to wait from IE before Longhorn. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Re: Ten questions for Anne van Kesteren
I thought XHTML transitional _is_ XML. In what way is XHTML transitional is a less strict data format? It's a transition. It's a half-way house between HTML 4 and XHTML as it is intended (XHTML Strict). Are you saying that XHTML transitional is a less strict data format than XML too or are you off on some tangent? If the the former then please explain in it more detail, I really am under the impression that XHTML transitional is XML - that being so, in what way can it (XHTML transitional) be a less strict data format (than XML)? I *think* that the transitional aspect is related to the set of available tags, rather than it's XML suitability. A lot of behavioural/presentational tags and tag attributes were removed from strict, but left in for transitional. Whether XHTML is valid XML is beyond my knowledge, but I believe it is. Valid XHTML Transitional *is* valid XML, just as baboobaWahoo/babooba can be a valid XML element. It has rules to follow, just like any standard, so in that respect all standards are as strict as each other - you have to stick to the rules. Patrick Griffiths (PTG) http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/ http://www.htmldog.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] my List problem again
Hi all, Last week several of you chimed in to help me fix an IE weirdness in my nav list on this page: http://www.pcc.com/benchmark/welcome.html The same thing is happening (space between the 'buttons') on this page: http://www.pcc.com/benchmark/financial.html seems that the if/else statements are causing the problem. Can anyone tell me how to make this better? Thanks in advance, Barb -- Barbara Dozetos [EMAIL PROTECTED] Physician's Computer CompanyMarketing Team 1 Main St., Ste 7 802-846-5532 Winooski, VT 05404 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] hover in FF
While I'm at it, can someone tell me why my a:link:hover rule is working perfectly in IE and not at all in FF? The nav buttons on the left are working, but links in the text and in the top nav are not. www.pcc.com/benchmark/financial.html -- Barbara Dozetos [EMAIL PROTECTED] Physician's Computer CompanyMarketing Team 1 Main St., Ste 7 802-846-5532 Winooski, VT 05404 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] hover in FF
Did you just add a visited state? I like the lay out and it seems to work in Mozilla. Jack Kennard Web Designer Marketing dba/ Web Sailing Designs http://www.websailingdesigns.com 404 459-6621 New Presidential slogan: Avoid the Mud slinging, take a trip. Barbara Dozetos wrote: While I'm at it, can someone tell me why my a:link:hover rule is working perfectly in IE and not at all in FF? The nav buttons on the left are working, but links in the text and in the top nav are not. www.pcc.com/benchmark/financial.html * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] hover in FF
Do you have your CSS in order: link, visited, hover, active? Sometimes if they are out of order it causes the problem you described. http://www.456bereastreet.com/lab/developing_with_web_standards/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barbara Dozetos Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] hover in FF While I'm at it, can someone tell me why my a:link:hover rule is working perfectly in IE and not at all in FF? The nav buttons on the left are working, but links in the text and in the top nav are not. www.pcc.com/benchmark/financial.html -- Barbara Dozetos [EMAIL PROTECTED] Physician's Computer CompanyMarketing Team 1 Main St., Ste 7 802-846-5532 Winooski, VT 05404 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] First Post - Help with Graphic on Home Page
Hello Everyone: This is my first post to this list and I do hope it is not off topic. I am creating a web site and am working on the home page (fairly new web designer, too). Normally, I make the page small so it can be seen by older monitors but this time I wanted to see if I could have it fill the entire page, no matter which monitor it was being viewed on. I am hitting two problems. 1 - I can't get the blended image at the bottom of the large horizontal graphic at the top to slide right over to jut up against the left column. 2 - Even though I have selected 100% for the size of the table, there is still white space above the horizontal graphic and to the left of the vertical graphic. My cell padding and spacing are already set to zero. I put the page on another site of mine so you can see it - http://www.fourpawstrail.com/newsite/index.html Can anyone help? T * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] hover in FF
that's the problem -it's not working once they're visited doh! Jack Kennard wrote: Did you just add a visited state? I like the lay out and it seems to work in Mozilla. Jack Kennard Web Designer Marketing dba/ Web Sailing Designs http://www.websailingdesigns.com 404 459-6621 New Presidential slogan: Avoid the Mud slinging, take a trip. Barbara Dozetos wrote: While I'm at it, can someone tell me why my a:link:hover rule is working perfectly in IE and not at all in FF? The nav buttons on the left are working, but links in the text and in the top nav are not. www.pcc.com/benchmark/financial.html * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * -- Barbara Dozetos [EMAIL PROTECTED] Physician's Computer CompanyMarketing Team 1 Main St., Ste 7 802-846-5532 Winooski, VT 05404 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Question on javascript
I notice there are a lot of sites in this group, that are using javascript. Are they mostly for determining browsers and then redirecting, or ? -- Jack Kennard Web Designer Marketing dba/ Web Sailing Designs http://www.websailingdesigns.com 404 459-6621 New Presidential slogan: Avoid the Mud slinging, take a trip. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] First Post - Help with Graphic on Home Page
I'm not clear to what your problem is from the email? You have 3 graphics (at least the only three that are showing up in FFox + IE6). One is a solid purple column, one is a city and is horizontal, and the other is a purple to white blender for the city bottom edge. In FFox and IE, your blender image does slide up against the vertical purple image. In FFox and IE, there is no whitespace separating either the horizontal or verical cells from the edge of the browser window. A shot of your site with the cells outlined from Firefox: http://www.theward.net/screenshot.gif I always design for an 800x600 resolution, which last I saw was the mid-line standard for the majority of users' screen resolutions, although I'd figure with technology advancing its probably a safe bet to design for 1024x768 as well. HTH. Cheers -Ryan YoYoEtc wrote: Hello Everyone: This is my first post to this list and I do hope it is not off topic. I am creating a web site and am working on the home page (fairly new web designer, too). Normally, I make the page small so it can be seen by older monitors but this time I wanted to see if I could have it fill the entire page, no matter which monitor it was being viewed on. I am hitting two problems. 1 - I can't get the blended image at the bottom of the large horizontal graphic at the top to slide right over to jut up against the left column. 2 - Even though I have selected 100% for the size of the table, there is still white space above the horizontal graphic and to the left of the vertical graphic. My cell padding and spacing are already set to zero. I put the page on another site of mine so you can see it - http://www.fourpawstrail.com/newsite/index.html Can anyone help? T * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Question on javascript
I never got into the idea of redirecting browsers to different pages using JS. Using standards to make web pages renders that practice obsolete for the most part since you get a one page serves all product in the end. If I use JS on any pages it is usually to make remembrance cookies on a user's computer or to add some bling to already established content like random images, date counter, etc. I don't feel JS is a reliable technology to use for distributing crucial pieces content, only things that can be considered extra. -Ryan Jack Kennard wrote: I notice there are a lot of sites in this group, that are using javascript. Are they mostly for determining browsers and then redirecting, or ? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] print style - reposition a div
Not sure how to tackle this ... I have a two column table - in the right hand column is a div. I have a print style sheet and would like this div to position itself at the end of all other content in the print version. Is this possible? Thanks WP Wendy Phillips Job Ready (Learning Development) Customer Sales Service * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Question on javascript
I agree with Ryan - coding for specific browsers is a futile excerise. We do use javascript quite a bit but its usually to provide additional funcitonality to users who are able to handle it. The empahsis is on people still being able to use the site without javascript. This could include things like having the text search inside a search box, but then removing it when the user clicks into the search box or providing tree style navigation. Javascript is ok, but must be used with care. I think the best approach is to aim at the DOM ECMA standards (O'Reilly have a great book on this) and not getting trapped into browser specific or IE only scripting. Cheers Mark * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] First Post - Help with Graphic on Home Page
Yes, I found out what was wrong. I didn't know you had to put the width and height in the cell tag as well as in the img src tag :) Re designing for 800x 600 or 1024x768, I think I will do that. From what I am reading, stretching the city horizontal graphic will degrade the quality and I can't take that risk When you design for, say, 800x600, do you have to put that in the body anywhere? At 06:47 PM 5/5/2004, Ryan Christie wrote: I'm not clear to what your problem is from the email? You have 3 graphics (at least the only three that are showing up in FFox + IE6). One is a solid purple column, one is a city and is horizontal, and the other is a purple to white blender for the city bottom edge. In FFox and IE, your blender image does slide up against the vertical purple image. In FFox and IE, there is no whitespace separating either the horizontal or verical cells from the edge of the browser window. A shot of your site with the cells outlined from Firefox: http://www.theward.net/screenshot.gif I always design for an 800x600 resolution, which last I saw was the mid-line standard for the majority of users' screen resolutions, although I'd figure with technology advancing its probably a safe bet to design for 1024x768 as well. HTH. Cheers -Ryan YoYoEtc wrote: Hello Everyone: This is my first post to this list and I do hope it is not off topic. I am creating a web site and am working on the home page (fairly new web designer, too). Normally, I make the page small so it can be seen by older monitors but this time I wanted to see if I could have it fill the entire page, no matter which monitor it was being viewed on. I am hitting two problems. 1 - I can't get the blended image at the bottom of the large horizontal graphic at the top to slide right over to jut up against the left column. 2 - Even though I have selected 100% for the size of the table, there is still white space above the horizontal graphic and to the left of the vertical graphic. My cell padding and spacing are already set to zero. I put the page on another site of mine so you can see it - http://www.fourpawstrail.com/newsite/index.html Can anyone help? T * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] print style - reposition a div
Phillips, Wendy spoke the following wise words on 6/05/2004 9:17 AM EST: I have a two column table - in the right hand column is a div. I have a print style sheet and would like this div to position itself at the end of all other content in the print version. Is this possible? Ahh now see if you'd gone CSS-P it wouldn't be a problem :) Mozilla supports display: block on the tds, but alas IE does not. -- tim lucas http://www.toolmantim.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
[WSG] Screen Reader resources
Hi people, Can anyone tell me where to find a JAWS style screen reader (without the hefty price tag) for testing purposes. Thanks, Luke * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] First Post - Help with Graphic on Home Page
Re designing for 800x 600 or 1024x768, I think I will do that. From what I am reading, stretching the city horizontal graphic will degrade the quality and I can't take that risk Yes, stretching out the image manually by forcing widthheight properties on the tag itself with distort and pixelize it. Never use false height and width values to shrink or expand an image. Use Photoshop, PaintShopPro, or [insert your favorite graphic editing software here] to alter the image's actual size. Nothing screams amateur more than a 2.5MB JPEG whose actual dimensions are 1800x1600, with it set to display at 320x240 size. If the publisher actually took the time to shrink the image, it would look better and be vastly smaller. I don't have any spcific examples off the top of my head, but I'm sure everyone has run into this on more than one occasion and rolled their eyes into the back of their head. When you design for, say, 800x600, do you have to put that in the body anywhere? When I was using tables to lay stuff out, I always drew out the cells on a piece of paper and figured out the widths of each cell in pixel units, never exceeding 800px on the widths. I still do the same with CSS but use divs instead of cells. Don't bother setting width to your table tag. Leave it blank. The table will expand to fit the cells placed inside of it. Take care with your table cells; simply limit yourself to 800px in added width (eg., an 800px header cell, a 200px left cell, 600px right cell, 800px bottom footer space). You won't have to declare the resolution you aim for like you would declare your DOCTYPE at the top of the page or the character set in the metas. The limitations apply to the rules you set for yourself. So if you go over 800 pixels in width, slap yourself around a few times and then come back and try again :) If I made mistakes there, I apologize. I haven't used tables to lay out websites for ages now. I find tabular data tables look just fine sizing themselves with a couple pointers in text alignment and some minor styling. -Ryan * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] First Post - Help with Graphic on Home Page
Thank you for all the good tips!! I am a relative beginner but I love it!! I am just learning CSS, too. At 08:31 PM 5/5/2004, Ryan Christie wrote: Re designing for 800x 600 or 1024x768, I think I will do that. From what I am reading, stretching the city horizontal graphic will degrade the quality and I can't take that risk Yes, stretching out the image manually by forcing widthheight properties on the tag itself with distort and pixelize it. Never use false height and width values to shrink or expand an image. Use Photoshop, PaintShopPro, or [insert your favorite graphic editing software here] to alter the image's actual size. Nothing screams amateur more than a 2.5MB JPEG whose actual dimensions are 1800x1600, with it set to display at 320x240 size. If the publisher actually took the time to shrink the image, it would look better and be vastly smaller. I don't have any spcific examples off the top of my head, but I'm sure everyone has run into this on more than one occasion and rolled their eyes into the back of their head. When you design for, say, 800x600, do you have to put that in the body anywhere? When I was using tables to lay stuff out, I always drew out the cells on a piece of paper and figured out the widths of each cell in pixel units, never exceeding 800px on the widths. I still do the same with CSS but use divs instead of cells. Don't bother setting width to your table tag. Leave it blank. The table will expand to fit the cells placed inside of it. Take care with your table cells; simply limit yourself to 800px in added width (eg., an 800px header cell, a 200px left cell, 600px right cell, 800px bottom footer space). You won't have to declare the resolution you aim for like you would declare your DOCTYPE at the top of the page or the character set in the metas. The limitations apply to the rules you set for yourself. So if you go over 800 pixels in width, slap yourself around a few times and then come back and try again :) If I made mistakes there, I apologize. I haven't used tables to lay out websites for ages now. I find tabular data tables look just fine sizing themselves with a couple pointers in text alignment and some minor styling. -Ryan * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] screen reader - links
some useful links re: screen readers http://www.iso.gmu.edu/~swidmaye/portfolio/edit797assistivetech.htm - *An Introduction to Screen Readers* http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_downloads/jaws_form.asp - jaws demo (doesnt expire ?) http://www.netmechanic.com/news/vol4/accessibility_no14.htm - Accessibility Tip: Let JAWS Taste Your Site http://www.unc.edu/webaccess/tools.html - Accessible Electronic Content http://www.unc.edu/webaccess/index.html Tools Services** -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] XHTML transitional is a half-way house [WAS] Ten questions for Anne van Kesteren
On 05/05/2004, at 10:09 PM, Patrick Griffiths wrote: I thought XHTML transitional _is_ XML. In what way is XHTML transitional is a less strict data format? It's a transition. It's a half-way house between HTML 4 and XHTML as it is intended (XHTML Strict). No its not. There is no such thing as a half-way house between HTML 4 and XHTML. XHTML defines a reformulation of HTML 4 as an XML 1.0 application, and three DTDs corresponding to the ones defined by HTML 4 http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/REC-xhtml1-20020801/#abstract The difference between a strict and a transitionl DTD (eg HTML4.01 Strict and HTML4.01 Transitional) is that the strict DTD has depreciated elements and attributes removed.. Extensible HTML version 1.0 Transitional DTD - This is the same as HTML 4 Transitional except for changes due to the differences between XML and SGML. http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/REC-xhtml1-20020801/dtds.html#a_dtd_XHTML -1.0-Transitional Cheers, Chris * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: Read: [WSG] screen reader - links
Sorry folks! looks like I forgot to turn off read receipts when I upgraded to Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 . Theyre set to off now. -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Your message To: WSG Subject: [WSG] screen reader - links Sent:Thu, 6 May 2004 10:55:06 +1000 was read on Thu, 6 May 2004 11:05:31 +1000 Final-Recipient: RFC822; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Disposition: automatic-action/MDN-sent-automatically; displayed X-MSExch-Correlation-Key: m6B3i3bY90qXjr8uzukpnw== Original-Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] XHTML transitional is a half-way house [WAS] Ten questions for Anne van Kesteren
Document Type Definition. It defines what all the tags mean. YoYoEtc wrote: What is DTD? At 09:03 PM 5/5/2004, Chris Bentley wrote: On 05/05/2004, at 10:09 PM, Patrick Griffiths wrote: I thought XHTML transitional _is_ XML. In what way is XHTML transitional is a less strict data format? It's a transition. It's a half-way house between HTML 4 and XHTML as it is intended (XHTML Strict). No its not. There is no such thing as a half-way house between HTML 4 and XHTML. XHTML defines a reformulation of HTML 4 as an XML 1.0 application, and three DTDs corresponding to the ones defined by HTML 4 http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/REC-xhtml1-20020801/#abstract The difference between a strict and a transitionl DTD (eg HTML4.01 Strict and HTML4.01 Transitional) is that the strict DTD has depreciated elements and attributes removed.. Extensible HTML version 1.0 Transitional DTD - This is the same as HTML 4 Transitional except for changes due to the differences between XML and SGML. http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/REC-xhtml1-20020801/dtds.html#a_dtd_XHTML -1.0-Transitional Cheers, Chris * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
