There has been lots written about separating content from presentation,
and most developers see the benefit of this approach (cleaner, leaner
markup; faster download speeds; easier maintainability, etc). There is
also a fair amount written about separating behaviour from both content
and
Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote:
Depending on the amount of hits they get, the
bandwidth limits they have, etc.
Whilst its always nice to include such information in our propaganda we
hand out to clients, we do have to maintain a realist stance
sometimes... most of our clients are small
Neerav wrote:
read on at http://juicystudio.com/ecmascriptmenu.asp
Looking good. However just being the nit-pick I am, might I suggest you
enclose the list headers in h2 tags?
...And I'm not enirely sure about the click opens, another closes the
same system, compared to open another and the
Forgive me if this doesn't specifically relate to standards, but perhaps
it does.
I'm simply wondering about the grammatically-correct double space after
a period. For years, it's never mattered to me, but I have a client who
is a stickler for this sort of thing, and he asked if I could
I deal with smaller clients, too, David and while I agree with your
comments, I run reseller hosting and when on a limited budget in a
cut-throat hosting business, those extra few Gigs often trip the switch to a
higher bandwidth package, especially if clients are using eBay or similar
commercial
-Original Message-
From: john [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, 23 January 2005 9:31 PM
To: web standards group
Subject: [WSG] double space after period
Forgive me if this doesn't specifically relate to standards,
but perhaps
it does.
I'm simply wondering about the
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:18:39 -0500, Rob McCormack
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
. Anyone know of a nice style guide (or guidelines)for
writing xHTML/HTML
..
Rob
New York Public Library Online Style Guide
http://www.nypl.org/styleguide/
David
--
http://www.dlaakso.com/
It certainly has nothing to do with grammar, it's more a presentation
convention that has evolved with type. As for a solution, maybe the CSS
property 'white-space: pre' would work?
Iain
--
Iain Gardiner
http://www.firelightning.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL
Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote:
I couldn't think of any way to do it in css. The only way would be
nbsp;nbsp; , but that's fairly annoying.
AFAIK, the all the non-markup specific entities (ie: the ones that
aren't: quot;, amp;, lt;, gt;) have been depreciated, if not
removed, from
Hello, John,
What do you think? First of all, can this be done in CSS? Secondly, is
this even proper with (X)HTML documents?
Not with CSS, unless you have all periods or sentences surrounded by a
tag. And about being proper, I see it as a typography convention, not
anything X/HTML related.
- Original Message -
From: Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: john [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, 23 January 2005 9:31 PM
To: web standards group
Subject: [WSG] double space after period
Forgive me if this
A double space after a period has nothing to do with grammar AFAIK, it
is a convention that comes from typewriter (and fixed width font) days.
Apparently the convention comes about because it makes it easier to
distinguish the end of a sentence, both from the preceding sentence and
from
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:30:51 +, john [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Forgive me if this doesn't specifically relate to standards, but perhaps
it does.
I'd file it under best practices myself.
I'm simply wondering about the grammatically-correct double space after
a period. For years, it's
Hello, all.
Multi-message comments follow:
David R:
AFAIK, the all the non-markup specific entities (ie: the ones that
aren't: quot;, amp;, lt;, gt;) have been depreciated, if not
removed, from XHTML2.0 since being based on XML means Unicode should
be used.
While the W3C says should not be
David
Perhaps you misunderstood, I just read this article and posted an
excerpt + link. The congrats and/or brickbats should go to Gez Lemon of
juicystudio.com :-)
Neerav Bhatt
http://www.bhatt.id.au
Web Development IT consultancy
http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts
David R wrote:
I do have a relevant question relating to this problem: Is there any
advantage in word-wrapping markup'd paragraphs?
The most important situation in which word-wrapping is useful is with
justified text. Good word-wrapping prevents awkward word spacing in such
text, rendering it
How about using en/em-space instead of regular space?
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/chars/spaces.html
--
regards, Kornel Lesiski
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for
I was referring to wrapping text on the markup site:
Like so:
pHello, this is
wrapped, like so,
do you see?/p
rather than:
pHello, this is wrapped, like so, do you see?/p
In both cases, UAs will render the content exactly the same... I was
wondering if there were any advantages to the former... I
In both cases, UAs will render the content exactly the same... I was
wondering if there were any advantages to the former... I heard
something about some obscure UAs ignoring content beyond the 80th Column
or something
myth.
--
regards, Kornel Lesiski
I'm simply wondering about the grammatically-correct double space after
a period. For years, it's never mattered to me, but I have a client who
is a stickler for this sort of thing, and he asked if I could please add
the extra spaces in his site.
It may or may not be grammatically correct,
Hey guys
I'm in a muddle here...
I'm using CSS to absolutely position my columns, because if I floated
them I'd have to re-order my XHTML structure:
Presently its like this: (uber-simplification)
body
!-- Wrappers used for column backgrounds--
div id=wrapper1
div id=wrapper2
div id=nav
ul
Hi David,
You could apply clear: both; to the footer element.
Presuming the code is as the pseudo code you illustrate.
Mike Pepper
Accessible Web Developer
Internet SEO and Marketing Analyst
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.visidigm.com
Administrator
Guild of Accessible Web Designers
[EMAIL
Hi David,
Couldn't you take the footer out of the wrapper...
/div
/div !-- end wrapper --
div id=footer
pfooter stuff/p
/div
Kim
David R wrote:
Hey guys
I'm in a muddle here...
I'm using CSS to absolutely position my columns, because if I floated
them I'd have to re-order my XHTML structure:
Does anyone have any suggestions for getting elements to clear
floating boxes?
Many options available, including setting all three columns to float:left
and the footer to clear: both. This solves both your column order and
footer issues.
Absolute positioning will always have downsides such as
Thank you for all your replies to this. My client has a PhD in
Linguistics, and asked that I do this. I have since emailed him, citing
many of your emails, and he changed his mind.
Thanks again!
~john
_
Dr. Zeus Web Development
http://www.DrZeus.net
content without
Hi,
This is my first post on this wonderful list. I have a major problem with
IE6. Try to visit this page: http://www.juhaliikala.com
It validates perfectly and works with Firefox and Netscape without any
problems...but with IE. Well, for me anyway, it returns only a blank white
page with the
Hello,
i'm new to the group and have two problems with a site i'm working
on. Perhaps someone could have a look at it.
First: there is a gap of 2px between the header and the menu (only in
IE. Opera7 and FF work fine).
Second: when I put an image (the small arrow) into list-elements of
the
Hi,
This is my first post on this wonderful list. I have a major problem with
IE6. Try to visit this page: http://www.juhaliikala.com
It validates perfectly and works with Firefox and Netscape without any
problems...but with IE. Well, for me anyway, it returns only a blank white
page with the
To answer your second question, place the arrow as a background image inside
the li element rather than inline. Gives you more control over placement and
keeps unnecessary images out of markup.
More here on background images in lists:
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listutorial/introduction.htm
Russ
Kim Kruse wrote:
Hi David,
Couldn't you take the footer out of the wrapper...
/div
/div !-- end wrapper --
div id=footer
pfooter stuff/p
/div
No, because the height of the wrapper isn't affected by the height of
the sidebars because they're positioned absolutely.
I've tried making all 3
I can't figure out what can be causing the problem, because it doesn't
work with any of my friends computers either...
this is so weird...
Juha-Markku Liikala
Department of Information Processing Science
University of Oulu, Finland
Sometimes simply clearing my browser cache does the trick for me -
although I'm sure you've already tried this.
Leslie Riggs
I can't figure out what can be causing the problem, because it doesn't
work with any of my friends computers either...
this is so weird...
Juha-Markku
Ok, problem solved...well kind of. I removed a my blog php-script from the
page and now it seems to work just fine...
Thanks anyway :)
Juha-Markku Liikala
Department of Information Processing Science
University of Oulu, Finland
We had this problem too ... It had something to do with the Proxy server
... If you view the source ... Do you just get the two tags
HTML/HTML nothing inbetween?
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Leslie Riggs
Sent: Monday, 24 January 2005
Hello Liikala,
try to leave out the first line of your code:
?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8' ?
Perhaps IE goes to Quirks Mode because of that line...
--
Cheers,
Christoph
on Sunday, January 23, 2005, 10:53:28 PM you wrote:
JML I can't figure out what can be causing the problem,
It sounds like the IE6 session bug...in that case try adding:
header(Cache-control: private); // IE 6 Fix.
after a session_start() call if there is one, or anywhere before sending
output to the browser.
Terrence Wood.
Juha-Markku Liikala wrote:
Ok, problem solved...well kind of. I removed a my
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:23:58 -, Kornel Lesinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In both cases, UAs will render the content exactly the same... I was
wondering if there were any advantages to the former... I heard
something about some obscure UAs ignoring content beyond the 80th Column
or
http://www.news.com.au/
I had a pleasant surprise this morning when I saw this redesign. Good to
see another big site making the effort.
Cheers
***
Helen Rysavy
Web Designer, Teaching Learning Development
Charles Darwin University, Northern
A lot less tables than before 8D but plenty of validation errors... It
scares me to think of how difficult it would be to keep all of the
content compliant when there's so much 3rd party shite plugged into
every page. Definitely a step in the right direction, thumbs up!
Mt.
-Original
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/
I had a pleasant surprise this morning when I saw this redesign. Good to
see another big site making the effort.
It needs a visit by the usability police. 41,706 bytes of CSS, and text
line-height sized in subatomic px. Should any site
Hey guys (once again)
I was thinking about your stereotypical Angelfire / Tripod user, the
beginner hobbyist.
Typically, these people start off with HTML3.2 or HTML4.01 Transitional,
as these are the most flexible, however they also lead to bad practices
later on.
Have a look at the latest
Hi all, this is my first shot at a tableless XHTML/CSS design and its
turning out better than I thought...
Everything is going according to plan, _except_ for one minor detail that is
making a big difference.
Check out the page that I'm laying out:
http://cyberphant0m.dotgeek.org/index.html The
David R wrote:
I was thinking about your stereotypical Angelfire / Tripod user, the
beginner hobbyist.
I'd predict that, once (if?) XHTML2.0 becomes mainstream, nobody in that
target audience would code by hand, but would use WYSIWYG applications
which, by that time, will have caught on to
Very interesting proposal... I agree that many beginners find tableless
designs somewhat hard to grasp.
Probably because they took a class in high school or college, and their
teacher may have told them that its easier to use tables because they act
logically.
The thing is, that when people
Reminds me of the post I wrote yesterday!
http://www.karmakars.com/weblog/archives/2005/01/23/news_redesign
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:05:29 -0500, Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/
I had a pleasant surprise this morning when I saw this
If you put your sidebar div above your content div the current css
works out fine. Otherwise if you want to leave the same order as you
have it in know you need to set a specific width for the content div
to make the float: left float: right technique to work. I tested it in
FF1.0. Hope this
G'day
Very interesting proposal... I agree that many beginners find tableless
designs somewhat hard to grasp.
I must still be a beginner, after 6 years of web design. It's
not just that it's hard to grasp, certain layouts that are easy
to do with a single layout table are near-impossible with
Actually, that's what I was trying to avoid... I've tried changing the order
of the sidebar and content, and the css works as is, but in terms of markup,
I think the page would make a lot more sense structurally if the content
came before, since the sidebar will (eventually) have addons (search
Bert Doorn wrote:
I have been struggling with one particular site for a week and still
can't get it to work reliably in Firefox, Opera and MSIE 5/5.5/6 (on PC,
let alone MSIE Mac) at the same time.
I did another version (using a single table) in less than an hour and it
displays as intended in
Alex Katechis wrote:
Hi all, this is my first shot at a tableless XHTML/CSS design and its
turning out better than I thought... Everything is going according
to plan, _except_ for one minor detail that is making a big
difference.
This _is_ one of the most difficult details in web design based
I'm going through all the templates which came from our design
competiton which will be used in Style Master 4, knocking them into
shape. I've found one which puts a comment *before* the DOCTYPE
declaration. And of course, when you remove this comment the layout
breaks in IE6.
Contrary to
Hi,
I'm looking for an open source, standards compliant CMS for an existing
site. The goal is taking the current design adding it to the CMS, and
proceeding as seamlessly as possible.
If such a thing exists one of you has knowledge.
I'm asking a lot and will have fries with it.
CK
I would agree with Gunlaug in that either number 3 or using negative
margins is the way to go with your code arrangement.
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 02:50:15 +0100, Gunlaug Sørtun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Alex Katechis wrote:
Hi all, this is my first shot at a tableless XHTML/CSS design and its
I was just looking for something similar the other day. I am not quite sure
about it yet, but have a look at Mambo (http://www.mamboserver.com/) - it is
open source PHP, but I am not quite sure yet in how far it is standards
compliant.
HTH.
-Original Message-
From: Chris Kennon
Yes, it is there to force the quirks mode. I personally prefer the XML
prolog there (however I don't know why I haven't placed it in my
StyleMaster template :/ ...). It works as well...
More info on topic:
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/about-boxmodel.htm
--
Jan Brasna ::
Well, you can make any of these CMS's standards compliant:
Typo - Complicated but powerful
eZ Publish - I recommend this but the templating system takes time to
get used to
Textparttern - Less powerful that some but easier integration
xMambo - Aims for standards compliance
I would also check out
Maxine Sherrin wrote:
I'm going through all the templates which came from our design
competiton which will be used in Style Master 4, knocking them into
shape. I've found one which puts a comment *before* the DOCTYPE
declaration. And of course, when you remove this comment the layout
breaks in
Great! Thanks a lot to everyone who replied... Im gonna go through the links
in Gunlaug's message and read them several times each and make sure I whip
my standards techniques into shape =)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Neil Patel
Sent:
I think that Drupal.org is far better than Mambo...
--
Jan Brasna :: alphanumeric.cz | webcore.cz | designlab.cz | janbrasna.com
Stop IE! - http://www.stopie.com/ | http://browsehappy.com/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
You may want to look at http://www.drupal.org looks pretty good, quite
extensible, etc...
Never tried it, but I've seen some people make some very artistic layouts,
and if Im not mistaken, the default layout that ships with drupal is
XHTML/CSS compliant... not bad, but it doesn't work with PHP5
Maxine Sherrin wrote:
I'm going through all the templates which came from our design
competiton which will be used in Style Master 4, knocking them into
shape. I've found one which puts a comment *before* the DOCTYPE
declaration. And of course, when you remove this comment the layout
breaks in
I think it is a lot easier to treat all IE/win (5+) as one and
the same, so I always use the ?xml... prolog.
Me too. I also prefer to throw all IE/Win into one basket...
--
Jan Brasna :: alphanumeric.cz | webcore.cz | designlab.cz | janbrasna.com
Stop IE! - http://www.stopie.com/ |
On 24/01/2005, at 1:40 PM, JohnyB wrote:
I think it is a lot easier to treat all IE/win (5+) as one and
the same, so I always use the ?xml... prolog.
OK, will prolly do this, Although being the postmodernist that I am,
I'm quite enjoying the doc as it is now, with a comment which refers to
the
Hi Everyone,
Im wanting to re-create my horizontal navigation the semantically correct
way by using an unordered list.
Is it possible to make it liquid (span the width of the browser window or
container)? At the moment it seems the browser displays each li at the
same width of the largest li.
Williams, Cara wrote:
...
Is it possible to make it liquid (span the width of the browser window or
container)? At the moment it seems the browser displays each li at the
same width of the largest li.
...
Try using % widths for the li.
**
The
I had a pleasant surprise this morning when I saw this redesign. Good to
see another big site making the effort.
Mmm, I had a pleasant surprise; followed by disappointment; followed
by a rude shock; followed by sustained aggravation.
Pleasant surprise: hey, looks nice.
Disappointment: not a
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