Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] Marking up a Calendar

[James Ellis]

A table is a good option for static calendars. i.e a grid. On the flip side, 
using a list based calendar, you'll be able to present it in different ways by 
altering the style rules for the elements, e.g as a pseudo-grid, a list etc 
etc.
And of course, there's no reason why you can't do both options - the data used 
in the calendar is separate to the HTML, right ?

HTH
J

On Wednesday 06 August 2008 10:43:49 8bits Media wrote:
> There's a few different opinions out there, but I think I agree with
> the responses from people on the list, tables make more sense.  I
> found this example of a calendar marked up using a list
> http://www.cssnewbie.com/list-based-css-calendar/ but I think I'll be using
> a table in this instance.
>
> Nick.
>



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Re: [WSG] Marking up a Calendar

[Joseph Taylor]

Definitely a table for a calendar, like:


   August 2008
   
  
 Sun
 Mon
 Tue
 Wed
 Thu
 Fri
 Sat
  
   
   
  
 1
 2
 you get the idea.

We would mark up a calendar as a list only if we weren't planning 
displaying the dates based on the day of the week.  Like a funky 
futuristic calendar.


A time line would be marked up as a list for sure.

Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/"Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design"/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Bruce wrote:


8bits Media wrote:

We currently have a project that includes a calendar in the design.  
The dilemma I currently have, is what is the best way to mark the  
calendar up? Should we use tables, or is it more semantically 
correct  these days to use an unordered list?


I'd be very interested to here peoples thoughts on the matter.

Thanks,

Nick Lazar
8bits Media


To me a calendar is columns and rows of data, so a table works fine.

Bruce
bkdesign solutions



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Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] Marking up a Calendar

[8bits Media]

There's a few different opinions out there, but I think I agree with  
the responses from people on the list, tables make more sense.  I  
found this example of a calendar marked up using a list http://www.cssnewbie.com/list-based-css-calendar/ 
  but I think I'll be using a table in this instance.


Nick.

On 6 Aug 2008, at 09:16, kevin mcmonagle wrote:


theres a good standards based calendar tut here:

http://veerle.duoh.com/blog/comments/a_css_styled_calendar/

-best
kevin



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Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings

[Michael Horowitz]

Definitely a hope of mine.   I would really think it might be best to 
use subject headings to allow people who aren't interested in helping to 
skip over posts.


Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote:
On lists like these, newbies can become gurus. And the cycle 
unselfishly gets repeated. :)


Respectfully,
Mike Cherim
http://green-beast.com


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Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] Marking up a Calendar

[kevin mcmonagle]

theres a good standards based calendar tut here:

http://veerle.duoh.com/blog/comments/a_css_styled_calendar/

-best
kevin



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[WSG] stupid table question

[kevin mcmonagle]

how can I lock down tr / td height so it wont expand to the size of the 
text contained within?

is it possible? something like overflow:hidden for a cell?
thanks
kevin



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Re: [WSG] Marking up a Calendar

[Blake]

On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 8:42 AM, 8bits Media
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We currently have a project that includes a calendar in the design. The
> dilemma I currently have, is what is the best way to mark the calendar up?
> Should we use tables, or is it more semantically correct these days to use
> an unordered list?

A table every time. A day on a calendar recieves meaning from the
table (month), the row (week), and the column (day) that it is in, and
IMO a table is the only sensible way to reperesent such complex
relationships between data.


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Re: [WSG] Marking up a Calendar

[Bruce]

8bits Media wrote:

We currently have a project that includes a calendar in the design.  
The dilemma I currently have, is what is the best way to mark the  
calendar up? Should we use tables, or is it more semantically correct  
these days to use an unordered list?


I'd be very interested to here peoples thoughts on the matter.

Thanks,

Nick Lazar
8bits Media


To me a calendar is columns and rows of data, so a table works fine.

Bruce
bkdesign solutions



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[WSG] Marking up a Calendar

[8bits Media]

We currently have a project that includes a calendar in the design.  
The dilemma I currently have, is what is the best way to mark the  
calendar up? Should we use tables, or is it more semantically correct  
these days to use an unordered list?


I'd be very interested to here peoples thoughts on the matter.

Thanks,

Nick Lazar
8bits Media


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[WSG] Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? ADMIN

[russ - maxdesign]

ADMIN

Enough! This thread has been completely out of line.

The aim of this list, as others have said, is to HELP EACH OTHER. If you
want to abuse people, please use a different list.


THREAD CLOSED

Russ





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Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings

[Mike at Green-Beast.com]

On lists like these, newbies can become gurus. And the cycle unselfishly 
gets repeated. :)


Respectfully,
Mike Cherim
http://green-beast.com 




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RE: [WSG] Appropriate postings

[Rick Faircloth]

Thanks for your thoughts, Jody.

I agree with you for the most part.

I would say, however, that even on the lists on which I participate,
the "Newbie" version of the list still has to have experienced posters
who can guide the newbies.  Without them, the newbies would all be
floundering for lack of guidance.

Also, you're right in saying that a list on a topic doesn't *have* to have
it first mission be to teach.  However, a list as broad in spectrum in dealing
with standards as this list should have teaching as a core purpose, unless it 
specifically states
otherwise.

And finally, I participate on other lists that have users with varying degrees
of expertise, so there are many topics that are beyond me or of no interest to 
me.
For those, I just skim the topics and delete.  I guess some people do feel duty 
bound to
read all topics, but I just hit the ones that I have answers to or have some 
interest for me.

If I read them all I'd never get anything done!  :o)

But always, list management is a tricky business and discussions like these are 
part of
a growing, vibrant community.  It would be very easy to manage a list where 
there were
no participants!

Rick

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jody Tate
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:01 PM
> To: Web Standards Group
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings
> 
> I'm a lurker on the list, but primarily because the list, so far, has seemed
> like a place where people come for help solving specific, remedial problems
> with long-standing (in internet-time) solutions well-documented on the
> internet and in books.
> 
> On 8/5/08 11:10 AM, "Rick Faircloth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > And I would like to know what a list on any subject is for if not for 
> > helping
> > people understand the most basic principles and application of a give
> > practice.
> > A list on any topic must embrace all level of participants, beginners and
> > advanced, alike.
> 
> If we think of the list as a classroom, a teaching environment, then it's
> standard practice to have separate beginning, advanced, etc. classes. At the
> university level, for example (in the US), classes at the 100 level tackle
> different issues than classes at the 200, 300 and 400 level.
> 
> A list on a topic isn't required to embrace all levels of expertise. I've
> participated in many mailings lists where some requests for basic help were
> considered off-topic. Requests for help when answers can be found by via
> searches or reading books were often seen as inappropriate.
> 
> I'd advocate (at the risk of sounding snobby), as some have suggested, for
> different lists--one to accommodate beginners and another to accommodate
> other developers interested, not in help with standards, but in the
> standards themselves.
> 
> > Anyone who thinks a list about web standards should not first have as its
> > mission
> > to teach and clarify the basics of the tools of standardization, such as 
> > CSS,
> > is
> > mistaken.  Unless expressly stated, a list must cater to the lowest common
> > denominator of its participants, not the highest.  By doing so, those on the
> > bottom
> > are lifted up, instead of always being pushed down and kept in the dark.
> 
> To think a list about web standards doesn't need to have teaching as its
> first mission is not mistaken, it's considering that a different goal or
> multiple goals might be acceptable.
> 
> Web standards are not new, though they may be new to some list users.
> Teaching can be a function, but if helping others with the basics is its
> sole function, as it's becoming here, it neglects another portion of the
> list's members, those who have been using web standards since their
> inception and hope to have extended discussions about, for example, XHTML
> vs. HTML5, CSS3, current and upcoming browser implementation of standards,
> emerging standards and so on.
> 
> -jody
> 
> --
> Jody Tate
> http://staff.washington.edu/jtate/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings

[Jody Tate]

I'm a lurker on the list, but primarily because the list, so far, has seemed
like a place where people come for help solving specific, remedial problems
with long-standing (in internet-time) solutions well-documented on the
internet and in books.

On 8/5/08 11:10 AM, "Rick Faircloth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> And I would like to know what a list on any subject is for if not for helping
> people understand the most basic principles and application of a give
> practice.
> A list on any topic must embrace all level of participants, beginners and
> advanced, alike.

If we think of the list as a classroom, a teaching environment, then it's
standard practice to have separate beginning, advanced, etc. classes. At the
university level, for example (in the US), classes at the 100 level tackle
different issues than classes at the 200, 300 and 400 level.

A list on a topic isn't required to embrace all levels of expertise. I've
participated in many mailings lists where some requests for basic help were
considered off-topic. Requests for help when answers can be found by via
searches or reading books were often seen as inappropriate.

I'd advocate (at the risk of sounding snobby), as some have suggested, for
different lists--one to accommodate beginners and another to accommodate
other developers interested, not in help with standards, but in the
standards themselves.

> Anyone who thinks a list about web standards should not first have as its
> mission
> to teach and clarify the basics of the tools of standardization, such as CSS,
> is
> mistaken.  Unless expressly stated, a list must cater to the lowest common
> denominator of its participants, not the highest.  By doing so, those on the
> bottom
> are lifted up, instead of always being pushed down and kept in the dark.

To think a list about web standards doesn't need to have teaching as its
first mission is not mistaken, it's considering that a different goal or
multiple goals might be acceptable.

Web standards are not new, though they may be new to some list users.
Teaching can be a function, but if helping others with the basics is its
sole function, as it's becoming here, it neglects another portion of the
list's members, those who have been using web standards since their
inception and hope to have extended discussions about, for example, XHTML
vs. HTML5, CSS3, current and upcoming browser implementation of standards,
emerging standards and so on.

-jody

--
Jody Tate
http://staff.washington.edu/jtate/






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Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

[Scott Elcomb]

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:57 PM, James Farrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just joined today and am considering leaving already.

It's not usually like this; in fact I think this is the first time
I've seen flames here.

-- 
 Scott Elcomb
 http://www.psema4.com/
 http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937


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RE: [WSG] Appropriate postings

[Rick Faircloth]

> Sorry to come across blunt - but I don't think the web standards group 
> is meant to be a teacher of css. Great that people on here are wanting 
> to learn. But there are plenty of other places dedicated to these sort 
> of things.

And I would like to know what a list on any subject is for if not for helping
people understand the most basic principles and application of a give practice.

A list on any topic must embrace all level of participants, beginners and 
advanced, alike.

If one cannot expect to participate in this list and "learn CSS", then it needs
to be made known that this is a list for advanced web standards gurus 
only...those who
need to understand something basic need not post...you will only be belittled 
for
your ignorance, not tutored and nurtured in your quest for coding to web 
standards.

My personal opinion is that the moderators need to be more "moderate" in their
enforcement of list standards.  In other words, "chill out" a little and let 
this
be a living, breathing community of participants who do think other thoughts 
they'd
like to share or need help on topics that might not fit a tightly screwed 
definition of
"web standards", but that don't justify "joining another list" just to ask a 
question
that is slightly oblique to the main list subject matter.

Anyone who thinks a list about web standards should not first have as its 
mission
to teach and clarify the basics of the tools of standardization, such as CSS, is
mistaken.  Unless expressly stated, a list must cater to the lowest common
denominator of its participants, not the highest.  By doing so, those on the 
bottom
are lifted up, instead of always being pushed down and kept in the dark.

And, yes, I agree with another poster, that there is a great need for a 
"Standards Newbie"
list, where *all* questions are welcome, if this list won't suffice.

Rick



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
Horowitz
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 1:16 PM
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings
> 
> I look at the list guidelines to see if I am appropriate
> 
> http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm where it says the list is
> 
> Provide web standards information and assistance to developers...
> 
> The mail list covers any topic associated with web standards including:
> 
> * Implementing Web Standards - eg: technologies such as HTML, XHTML,
>   CSS, DOM, UAAG, RDF, XML, JavaScript and EcmaScript
> 
> 
> It seems my questions are about implementing Web Standards.  I certainly
> agree with the earlier posters who suggested I make sure to validate
> before posting questions on what I do.  That would have saved some dumb
> questions on my behalf.  I do think we should probably add requiring
> validation before posting How To my sites broken questions to the list.
> 
> I also do think that it is possible their are lurkers on my list
> learning web standards and just starting with tableless design who may
> benefit from my questions.  Going back 20 years to college I remember
> feeling like an idiot being the only one to ask a question in class when
> I didn't understand something only to have a half a dozen people thank
> me for my question after class because they were too afraid to ask.  So
> I do believe there are other who may learn from my questions.
> 
> There may be a benefit to the group to have multiple mail lists for
> different aspects of Web Standards including a newbie list where people
> can seek help.  I would also be open to having a standard part of a
> subject line like
> Dumb Newbie asking question :)   to allow people who don't want to get
> involved with helping to more easily filter my mail.  I can tell you it
> will probably be 6 months to a year before I can add much more to the
> list besides asking questions so you may just with to use your email
> filter to put my posts to your trash bin and take it out again this time
> next year.
> 
> I know I am supposed to thank people off list for help but as long as it
> is part of a longer posting I will just add some thanks for your help.
> I do learn alot from this list both from my questions on the subject I
> just read.
> 
> Michael Horowitz
> Your Computer Consultant
> http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
> 561-394-9079
> 
> 
> 
> Adam Martin wrote:
> > Sorry to come across blunt - but I don't think the web standards group
> > is meant to be a teacher of css. Great that people on here are wanting
> > to learn. But there are plenty of other places dedicated to these sort
> > of things.
> > - Original Message - From: "Michael Horowitz"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 2:16 AM
> > Subject: Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list
> >
> >
> >> In playing I've found using the relative positioning working pretty
> >> good for me.  Is it just a matter of personal preference what I use
> >> then?

[WSG] Employment Opportunity: Small County Government Site in Drupal

[James O'Neill]

Greetings all,

*I posted the following on the Drupal Forums and I will post it here as well
for your consideration:*

Currently, we are working towards bids for a full site developed, including
back-end database work and, potentially, custom mods and content types. I
have a page layout and design already coded up and that can be used as a
very strong base to work from, so most of that work is already done. We
would need that turned into a theme and spruced up a bit. Perhaps some
graphics work can be done as well as other suggestions that you may have.

First, I would like parties that are interested to please email their
interest (off list) along with samples of their work. The first criteria for
acceptance is web standards. If you or your company produces valid and
semantic code with Drupal I would like to see that as a start for
consideration. If your samples are not perfect but you have reasons please
post that as well and that will be taken into consideration.


Later on, once we have more specifics figured out, I will post what work and
features are going to be our required and what will be on our wish list.

My previous post will give you an idea as to what we are looking for:
http://drupal.org/node/235342
Our site is currently: http://www.co.sauk.wi.us.

Thank you for your time and patience all,

Jim


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Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

[James Farrell]

I just joined today and am considering leaving already.

2008/8/5 Thierry Koblentz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > Behalf Of David Fuller - magickweb
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:55 AM
> > To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> > Subject: RE: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning
> was
> > Extra white line on the top of my list
> >
> > I spend my development time actually working on client sites...
> >
> > How I spend my time is none of your concern - If your going to start
> getting
> > all antsy and narcissistic then its showing your not professional...
>
> David,
>
> Why sending this to the list?
> I replied *off-list* to one of your post yesterday saying that keeping the
> noise to a minimum is something we should all try to do, but you don't seem
> to care. I'd agree that the post you replied to should not have been sent
> to
> the list either, but still.
> Please think twice before hitting the send button.
>
> Thank you.
>
> PS: sorry for the extra noise
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>


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Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

[kevin erickson]

You know the saying, 'If you don't like something, ignore it and it will  
go away'? Let's try that here :D
On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:48:57 -0400, Andrew Maben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:



On Aug 5, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Joseph Ortenzi wrote:


Would I be considered rude if I asked you to continue this
particular thread off board?


Thanks, Joe. As you saw, I took it off the list once but David had to
bring it right back. It looks to me as if he just wants to annoy
people, so I've contacted Russ about it.

Andrew

http://www.andrewmaben.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

"In a well designed user interface, the user should not need
instructions."




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--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/


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RE: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

[Thierry Koblentz]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David Fuller - magickweb
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:55 AM
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: RE: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning
was
> Extra white line on the top of my list
> 
> I spend my development time actually working on client sites...
> 
> How I spend my time is none of your concern - If your going to start
getting
> all antsy and narcissistic then its showing your not professional...

David,

Why sending this to the list? 
I replied *off-list* to one of your post yesterday saying that keeping the
noise to a minimum is something we should all try to do, but you don't seem
to care. I'd agree that the post you replied to should not have been sent to
the list either, but still. 
Please think twice before hitting the send button.

Thank you.

PS: sorry for the extra noise


-- 
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com






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Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings

[Michael Horowitz]

I look at the list guidelines to see if I am appropriate

http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm where it says the list is

Provide web standards information and assistance to developers...

The mail list covers any topic associated with web standards including:

   * Implementing Web Standards - eg: technologies such as HTML, XHTML,
 CSS, DOM, UAAG, RDF, XML, JavaScript and EcmaScript


It seems my questions are about implementing Web Standards.  I certainly 
agree with the earlier posters who suggested I make sure to validate 
before posting questions on what I do.  That would have saved some dumb 
questions on my behalf.  I do think we should probably add requiring 
validation before posting How To my sites broken questions to the list.


I also do think that it is possible their are lurkers on my list 
learning web standards and just starting with tableless design who may 
benefit from my questions.  Going back 20 years to college I remember 
feeling like an idiot being the only one to ask a question in class when 
I didn't understand something only to have a half a dozen people thank 
me for my question after class because they were too afraid to ask.  So 
I do believe there are other who may learn from my questions.


There may be a benefit to the group to have multiple mail lists for 
different aspects of Web Standards including a newbie list where people 
can seek help.  I would also be open to having a standard part of a 
subject line like
Dumb Newbie asking question :)   to allow people who don't want to get 
involved with helping to more easily filter my mail.  I can tell you it 
will probably be 6 months to a year before I can add much more to the 
list besides asking questions so you may just with to use your email 
filter to put my posts to your trash bin and take it out again this time 
next year. 

I know I am supposed to thank people off list for help but as long as it 
is part of a longer posting I will just add some thanks for your help.  
I do learn alot from this list both from my questions on the subject I 
just read.


Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



Adam Martin wrote:
Sorry to come across blunt - but I don't think the web standards group 
is meant to be a teacher of css. Great that people on here are wanting 
to learn. But there are plenty of other places dedicated to these sort 
of things.
- Original Message - From: "Michael Horowitz" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 2:16 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list


In playing I've found using the relative positioning working pretty 
good for me.  Is it just a matter of personal preference what I use 
then?


Thanks for the article I really haven't understood negative margins.

Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



David Hucklesby wrote:

On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:32:16 -0400, Michael Horowitz wrote:

The live page is horowitzfamily.net.  I'm just learning positioning 
and this seemed to

work.  The issue as mentioned earlier was transparency in my image.

however I am just learning to do css without tables and really 
don't know what I
"should" be doing for positioning.  Quite honestly in hacking 
around this worked.  I'll

be happy to get feedback on better techniques for the future




CSS gives you a lot of options for positioning elements on a page.
As with all design issues, the "best" choice is usually a compromise,
depending on what you want to achieve.

My first choice for positioning elements is often to use margins -
including negative margins on occasion. See this CommunityMX article
for more:

  

Hope this helps.

Cordially,
David
--



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RE: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

[David Fuller - magickweb]

Actually Andrew I am not here to annoy people what I have said has merit.

 

You are so quick to pass judgment simply because you do not agree with
somebody's point of view.

 

Its actually rather pathetic behaviour. If you cannot accept peoples point
of view that differs from yours, then you clearly should not be part of any
forum system because your going to get that everywhere you go.

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andrew Maben
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 2:49 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was
Extra white line on the top of my list

 

On Aug 5, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Joseph Ortenzi wrote:





Would I be considered rude if I asked you to continue this particular thread
off board?

 

Thanks, Joe. As you saw, I took it off the list once but David had to bring
it right back. It looks to me as if he just wants to annoy people, so I've
contacted Russ about it.

 

Andrew

 

http://www.andrewmaben.net

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

"In a well designed user interface, the user should not need instructions."





 


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Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

[Andrew Maben]

On Aug 5, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Joseph Ortenzi wrote:

Would I be considered rude if I asked you to continue this  
particular thread off board?


Thanks, Joe. As you saw, I took it off the list once but David had to  
bring it right back. It looks to me as if he just wants to annoy  
people, so I've contacted Russ about it.


Andrew

http://www.andrewmaben.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

"In a well designed user interface, the user should not need  
instructions."





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Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

[Joseph Ortenzi]

keep your handbags to yourselves please? looks like you ran off topic.
;-)

As a list reader, it would be helpful to me (and perhaps to others?)  
if discussions were kept as close as possible to Web Standards related  
issues, and kept polite and respectful. can I kindly ask you to take a  
breather from this thread and cool down until tomorrow?


Would I be considered rude if I asked you to continue this particular  
thread off board?


Thanks in advance.
Joe

On Aug 05, 2008, at 16:55, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


I spend my development time actually working on client sites...

How I spend my time is none of your concern - If your going to start  
getting

all antsy and narcissistic then its showing your not professional...



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Lewis, Matthew
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:55 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG]  
Positioning was

Extra white line on the top of my list

What would be more a productive use of your time David is validating
your pages.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

And there is plenty of "We are still moving into our new site...
please bear with us..." stuff that still needs to be written.

Just a suggestion.

On 5/08/2008, at 12:34 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


Well hey everybody...

It would appear Andrew has decided to take his "comments" out of the
public
view and turn them personal... Please read..

On Aug 1, 2008, at 2:31 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


group does NOT have to be SPECIFICALLY about web standards


Perhaps not, but totally irrelevant attacks on any platform are a
waste of
everyone's time and energy.


Frankly I don't believe anyone on this list learned anything useful
from the
fact that you don't like macs.


So as one professional to another, please keep your comments
constructive at
least. If you have a reasoned argument as to why the macintosh
platform is
inimical to web standards, I for one would be interested to hear
what you
have to say. Otherwise your remark is as useful and informative to
this list
as your tastes in ice-cream would be.



List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm


Andrew


http://www.andrewmaben.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


"In a well designed user interface, the user should not need
instructions."



Andrew if you are so afraid of negative comments, don't post at all.
My
comments were not aimed @ macs or any other platform - get your
facts right
before you start sprouting your mouth off...

I used that "development platform" as an EXAMPLE of similar
discussions had
in the past where people got uppity... I was not referring to now..

To paraphrase yourself Andrew "If you have something of value, then
don't
bring it to the forum"

Why can people not realize that they are not the end all and be all,
and my
main point was this. Those with less skills than professionals like
myself
(and Andrew I don't know I haven't seen his work) will ask questions
to
learn and to grow as developers...

If we as a community want a unified web standard and it to be widely
used
and accepted, we need to encourage, help and support those who are
still
learning...

Why is that so hard for you to fathom Andrew?


David Fuller
Developer
magickweb
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel:   0434 728 267
Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ian Chamberlain
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning
was
Extra white line on the top of my list

I suspect there is more than a grain of truth in both David and
Adams views.

If places like this are to reach the widest possible audience they
must be
accessible to all (with reason); ditto to be a usable standards
debating
forum we should be debating the finer points not spending ALL our
time on
what the experts among us may consider to be trivial.

Two suggestions;

[1]That we all take a moment to consider those who may know a
little
less than we on a specific subject and attempt to use plain English
when
replying;  thus to help others along the way.

[2]When responding to eager questioners such as Michael suggest
that
they take the conversation off the forum; but please bring it back
when a
conclusion has been reached as I suspect I lot of equally eager  
thread

watchers may be keen to know the answer too.

I will now return to lurking

Regards

Ian Chamberlain
ex-Head of Web Strategy BT Global Services; now Freelancing and
having a
ball.
www.chamberlainsofharrogate.co.uk


- Original Message -
From: "David Fuller - magickweb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008

Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

[kevin erickson]

I have an idea. Let's let go this for now and let the mediator tell us  
when we are off the web standards fuzzy line. No?


Peace to all!

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:55:13 -0400, David Fuller - magickweb  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



I spend my development time actually working on client sites...

How I spend my time is none of your concern - If your going to start  
getting

all antsy and narcissistic then its showing your not professional...



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lewis, Matthew
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:55 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning  
was

Extra white line on the top of my list

What would be more a productive use of your time David is validating
your pages.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

And there is plenty of "We are still moving into our new site...
please bear with us..." stuff that still needs to be written.

Just a suggestion.

On 5/08/2008, at 12:34 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


Well hey everybody...

It would appear Andrew has decided to take his "comments" out of the
public
view and turn them personal... Please read..

On Aug 1, 2008, at 2:31 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


group does NOT have to be SPECIFICALLY about web standards


Perhaps not, but totally irrelevant attacks on any platform are a
waste of
everyone's time and energy.


Frankly I don't believe anyone on this list learned anything useful
from the
fact that you don't like macs.


So as one professional to another, please keep your comments
constructive at
least. If you have a reasoned argument as to why the macintosh
platform is
inimical to web standards, I for one would be interested to hear
what you
have to say. Otherwise your remark is as useful and informative to
this list
as your tastes in ice-cream would be.



List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm


Andrew


http://www.andrewmaben.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


"In a well designed user interface, the user should not need
instructions."



Andrew if you are so afraid of negative comments, don't post at all.
My
comments were not aimed @ macs or any other platform - get your
facts right
before you start sprouting your mouth off...

I used that "development platform" as an EXAMPLE of similar
discussions had
in the past where people got uppity... I was not referring to now..

To paraphrase yourself Andrew "If you have something of value, then
don't
bring it to the forum"

Why can people not realize that they are not the end all and be all,
and my
main point was this. Those with less skills than professionals like
myself
(and Andrew I don't know I haven't seen his work) will ask questions
to
learn and to grow as developers...

If we as a community want a unified web standard and it to be widely
used
and accepted, we need to encourage, help and support those who are
still
learning...

Why is that so hard for you to fathom Andrew?


David Fuller
Developer
magickweb
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel:   0434 728 267
Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ian Chamberlain
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning
was
Extra white line on the top of my list

I suspect there is more than a grain of truth in both David and
Adams views.

If places like this are to reach the widest possible audience they
must be
accessible to all (with reason); ditto to be a usable standards
debating
forum we should be debating the finer points not spending ALL our
time on
what the experts among us may consider to be trivial.

Two suggestions;

[1]That we all take a moment to consider those who may know a
little
less than we on a specific subject and attempt to use plain English
when
replying;  thus to help others along the way.

[2]When responding to eager questioners such as Michael suggest
that
they take the conversation off the forum; but please bring it back
when a
conclusion has been reached as I suspect I lot of equally eager thread
watchers may be keen to know the answer too.

I will now return to lurking

Regards

Ian Chamberlain
ex-Head of Web Strategy BT Global Services; now Freelancing and
having a
ball.
www.chamberlainsofharrogate.co.uk


- Original Message -
From: "David Fuller - magickweb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:23 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my
list


Adam...

I am sorry but I have to disagree whole heartedly... What is the
standards
group, if not a place where all people can who choose to, can come
and gain
guidance and learning to become STANDARDS COMPLIANT??? I

RE: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

[David Fuller - magickweb]

I spend my development time actually working on client sites...

How I spend my time is none of your concern - If your going to start getting
all antsy and narcissistic then its showing your not professional...



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lewis, Matthew
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:55 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was
Extra white line on the top of my list

What would be more a productive use of your time David is validating  
your pages.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

And there is plenty of "We are still moving into our new site...  
please bear with us..." stuff that still needs to be written.

Just a suggestion.

On 5/08/2008, at 12:34 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:

> Well hey everybody...
>
> It would appear Andrew has decided to take his "comments" out of the  
> public
> view and turn them personal... Please read..
>
> On Aug 1, 2008, at 2:31 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:
>
>
> group does NOT have to be SPECIFICALLY about web standards
>
>
> Perhaps not, but totally irrelevant attacks on any platform are a  
> waste of
> everyone's time and energy.
>
>
> Frankly I don't believe anyone on this list learned anything useful  
> from the
> fact that you don't like macs.
>
>
> So as one professional to another, please keep your comments  
> constructive at
> least. If you have a reasoned argument as to why the macintosh  
> platform is
> inimical to web standards, I for one would be interested to hear  
> what you
> have to say. Otherwise your remark is as useful and informative to  
> this list
> as your tastes in ice-cream would be.
>
>
>
> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
> http://www.andrewmaben.net
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> "In a well designed user interface, the user should not need  
> instructions."
>
> 
>
> Andrew if you are so afraid of negative comments, don't post at all.  
> My
> comments were not aimed @ macs or any other platform - get your  
> facts right
> before you start sprouting your mouth off...
>
> I used that "development platform" as an EXAMPLE of similar  
> discussions had
> in the past where people got uppity... I was not referring to now..
>
> To paraphrase yourself Andrew "If you have something of value, then  
> don't
> bring it to the forum"
>
> Why can people not realize that they are not the end all and be all,  
> and my
> main point was this. Those with less skills than professionals like  
> myself
> (and Andrew I don't know I haven't seen his work) will ask questions  
> to
> learn and to grow as developers...
>
> If we as a community want a unified web standard and it to be widely  
> used
> and accepted, we need to encourage, help and support those who are  
> still
> learning...
>
> Why is that so hard for you to fathom Andrew?
>
>
> David Fuller
> Developer
> magickweb
> Web:http://www.magick.com.au
> Tel:   0434 728 267
> Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Ian Chamberlain
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:08 AM
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning  
> was
> Extra white line on the top of my list
>
> I suspect there is more than a grain of truth in both David and  
> Adams views.
>
> If places like this are to reach the widest possible audience they  
> must be
> accessible to all (with reason); ditto to be a usable standards  
> debating
> forum we should be debating the finer points not spending ALL our  
> time on
> what the experts among us may consider to be trivial.
>
> Two suggestions;
>
> [1]That we all take a moment to consider those who may know a  
> little
> less than we on a specific subject and attempt to use plain English  
> when
> replying;  thus to help others along the way.
>
> [2]When responding to eager questioners such as Michael suggest  
> that
> they take the conversation off the forum; but please bring it back  
> when a
> conclusion has been reached as I suspect I lot of equally eager thread
> watchers may be keen to know the answer too.
>
> I will now return to lurking
>
> Regards
>
> Ian Chamberlain
> ex-Head of Web Strategy BT Global Services; now Freelancing and  
> having a
> ball.
> www.chamberlainsofharrogate.co.uk
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "David Fuller - magickweb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:23 PM
> Subject: RE: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my  
> list
>
>
> Adam...
>
> I am sorry but I have to disagree whole heartedly... What is the  
> standards
> group, if not a place where all people can who choose t

Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

[Lewis, Matthew]

What would be more a productive use of your time David is validating  
your pages.


And there is plenty of "We are still moving into our new site...  
please bear with us..." stuff that still needs to be written.


Just a suggestion.

On 5/08/2008, at 12:34 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


Well hey everybody...

It would appear Andrew has decided to take his "comments" out of the  
public

view and turn them personal... Please read..

On Aug 1, 2008, at 2:31 PM, David Fuller - magickweb wrote:


group does NOT have to be SPECIFICALLY about web standards


Perhaps not, but totally irrelevant attacks on any platform are a  
waste of

everyone's time and energy.


Frankly I don't believe anyone on this list learned anything useful  
from the

fact that you don't like macs.


So as one professional to another, please keep your comments  
constructive at
least. If you have a reasoned argument as to why the macintosh  
platform is
inimical to web standards, I for one would be interested to hear  
what you
have to say. Otherwise your remark is as useful and informative to  
this list

as your tastes in ice-cream would be.



List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm


Andrew


http://www.andrewmaben.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


"In a well designed user interface, the user should not need  
instructions."




Andrew if you are so afraid of negative comments, don't post at all.  
My
comments were not aimed @ macs or any other platform - get your  
facts right

before you start sprouting your mouth off...

I used that "development platform" as an EXAMPLE of similar  
discussions had

in the past where people got uppity... I was not referring to now..

To paraphrase yourself Andrew "If you have something of value, then  
don't

bring it to the forum"

Why can people not realize that they are not the end all and be all,  
and my
main point was this. Those with less skills than professionals like  
myself
(and Andrew I don't know I haven't seen his work) will ask questions  
to

learn and to grow as developers...

If we as a community want a unified web standard and it to be widely  
used
and accepted, we need to encourage, help and support those who are  
still

learning...

Why is that so hard for you to fathom Andrew?


David Fuller
Developer
magickweb
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel:   0434 728 267
Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Ian Chamberlain
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: WSG promoting standards via teaching? Re: [WSG] Positioning  
was

Extra white line on the top of my list

I suspect there is more than a grain of truth in both David and  
Adams views.


If places like this are to reach the widest possible audience they  
must be
accessible to all (with reason); ditto to be a usable standards  
debating
forum we should be debating the finer points not spending ALL our  
time on

what the experts among us may consider to be trivial.

Two suggestions;

[1]That we all take a moment to consider those who may know a  
little
less than we on a specific subject and attempt to use plain English  
when

replying;  thus to help others along the way.

[2]When responding to eager questioners such as Michael suggest  
that
they take the conversation off the forum; but please bring it back  
when a

conclusion has been reached as I suspect I lot of equally eager thread
watchers may be keen to know the answer too.

I will now return to lurking

Regards

Ian Chamberlain
ex-Head of Web Strategy BT Global Services; now Freelancing and  
having a

ball.
www.chamberlainsofharrogate.co.uk


- Original Message -
From: "David Fuller - magickweb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:23 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my  
list



Adam...

I am sorry but I have to disagree whole heartedly... What is the  
standards
group, if not a place where all people can who choose to, can come  
and gain
guidance and learning to become STANDARDS COMPLIANT??? It would  
appear that

this is exactly what the group is for...

I've mentioned this in another thread, where people get all uppity  
about not
exactly "web standards content" (I think in that example it was  
discussing

Development Platforms...)

Regardless we are all professionals, and we are here to help, to  
learn and
to keep up to date, so if somebody with slightly less experience  
than you
asks for assistance, what's the harm in giving that assistance? It  
doesn't
cost you anything and you do end up with a grateful developer/ 
designer - and

that's positive networking - again a very big plus for any business.



Enjoy all :)

David Fuller
Developer
magickweb
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel:   0434 728 267
Email: