Re: [WSG] Embedding XML in HTML
Kat wrote: 1. I cannot find any xml element in the HTML 4.01 standard There isn't one 2. I cannot find any reference to the datafld attribute for span. Ditto Both of these are mentioned on this W3Schools Insert obscenity due to their general level of quality being extremely low. XML tutorial site: http://www.w3schools.com/xml/xml_data_island.asp To quote that page: With Internet Explorer, the ***unofficial*** xml tag can be used to create an XML data island. Is what the W3Schools site discusses as per the standards No NB. I am, of course, assuming that when W3Schools says HTML, it means exactly that, and not XHTML. It would still be wrong if it was XHTML since it isn't in a different namespace. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] tabindex and accesskey
Designer wrote: Sorry to go over old ground here, but I seem to remember that the general consensus of opinion on the above two was that it was best if they weren't used? However, if I try to validate using the WIA validator, I've never heard of it, and a quick Google doesn't help. my stuff validates, but the validator gives me two warnings: 9.4 Create a logical tab order through links, form controls, and objects. * Rule: 9.4.1 - All Anchor, AREA, BUTTON, INPUT, OBJECT, SELECT and TEXTAREA elements are required to use the 'tabindex' attribute. Rubbish. WCAG 1.0 says: For example, in HTML, specify tab order via the tabindex attribute or ensure a logical page design. Logical page design is the better option. Tabindex only comes into play if you're doing something fairly odd. 9.5 Provide keyboard shortcuts to important links (including those in client-side image maps), form controls, and groups of form controls. Well, technically it is a requirement of AAA level WCAG 1.0, but a lot of experts consider accesskeys to do more harm then good since they interfere with built-in keyboard shortcuts in most browsers. * Rule: 9.5.1 - All Anchor, AREA, BUTTON, INPUT, LABEL, LEGEND, and TEXTAREA elements are required to use the 'accesskey' attribute. This tool really isn't very good. WCAG says important (and they quoted it), not all. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PopUp windows
Bob Schwartz wrote: Example would be a page with a sort of table of contents which lists minutes of the past five years board meeting, the user clicks on one, it pops up they read it, print it or whatever, then go to the next. It gives them a chance to browse without leaving the TOC page, And so does a regular link (since I can just middle click to open in a new tab). With a regular link I can follow it normally and then use the back button to get back to where I was before, without having to close windows or dig around in my task manager to find the window with the previous document in it. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PopUp windows
John Faulds wrote: And so does a regular link (since I can just middle click to open in a new tab). Not everyone has a mouse with a middle button or scroll wheel There are other ways to open new windows, that was just the method I use. and even fewer know that they can click it to open a new window/tab. And they, I suspect, would be the people least able to handle a new window spawned by the webpage. The back button is one of the first things people learn about browsers. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] doing things right
Barney Carroll wrote: Wo! Well said, Hassan. You're right, a string to replace null values is significant. I take back my earlier point - a character could be introduced with JS, I suppose. How is that any different? The resulting document is the same. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] doing things right
Barney Carroll wrote: David Dorward wrote: Barney Carroll wrote: Wo! Well said, Hassan. You're right, a string to replace null values is significant. I take back my earlier point - a character could be introduced with JS, I suppose. How is that any different? The resulting document is the same. If somebody's copying and pasting HTML into a database It shouldn't matter what is being done with the data. The data provided should be free of junk used for presentational effect, so that it can be used by any user agent without having to work around presentational hacks. spaces in supposedly empty cells is the least of your worries. If someone really wants to implement this, I'd have the source document as XML or CSV. Use XSLT to turn it into HTML, have the javascript load only on HTML web pages on the internet, client-side (sorry if I sound patronising, I have difficulty expressing these things without spelling them out). Intranet? Where did this start being limited to an intranet? But I'm no expert. I don't actually know any XSLT, and I'm not entirely sure of myself when I say using HTML as the master source for conversion into other data files is such a bad idea. I just think that if you have the need and means to do that, you wouldn't be drawing direct from HTML in the first place - HTML would be the last step of presentation of that data for web But HTML is not a presentation language, it describes structure / semantics. in my mind - you'd access a purer version or at least use a parsing tool before putting it into anything else. Why should a parsing tool have to have a special case to interpret a non-breaking space as non-data? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] doing things right
Thierry Koblentz wrote: How is that any different? The resulting document is the same. FWIW I don't agree, the content layer would be *clean*. So the user agent gets clean content providing it doesn't support JavaScript. Great. Now all we have to do is make sure that no user agent supports JavaScript and everyone will get a clean DOM. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] doing things right
Barney Carroll wrote: David Dorward wrote: Intranet? Where did this start being limited to an intranet? ... But HTML is not a presentation language, it describes structure / semantics. Internet, David. Sorry, somehow I misread that. Honestly, HTML may be very nice indeed, but I'd strongly advise against it for general purpose data-handling. Its a language for marking up documents. Sometimes documents have tables of data in them. Why shouldn't a user agent (no matter if it is a graphical browser, or a screen reader, or a bot that is extracting the data to perform some calculations on it, or anything else) be given semantically and structurally correct data? As an author, I write documents. Other people then read them, what they read them with is outside my control. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] pop-up - onblur question
Donna Jones wrote: hi everyone: i have some pop-ups that are part of a fairly old design and have been working on updating the code as i go. i've used onblur=window.close(); (in the body tag) to have the pop-up close after it loses focus, but Tidy says, onblur is proprietary and doesn't like it. is there something i can use instead? I'd suggest avoiding closing the window when it looses the focus altogether. Last time I encountered something like that I couldn't make use of the window at all - not everybody uses click-to-focus, and since focus-follows-mouse caused windows between the mouse pointer and the popup to gain the focus as the mouse travelled to the popup to gain the focus as it passed over them, it wasn't possible to get from the link to the window before it closed! -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] pop-up - onblur question
Donna Jones wrote: Hi David: thanks for your response. I don't think I have the same circumstances you describe but not sure, would you mind looking at this page: http://www.mainehumanities.org/programs/litandmed/synapse/sym-temp/feature_s07.html# its the bio link. It is the same circumstances as I described previously, although my browser seems to have become smarter since I last ran across anyone doing something like that and doesn't automatically give the window a focus to lose when it opens now (of course, if I want to copy/paste data from it, then I'm going to run into trouble no matter what techniques I use to focus windows). Dealing with that tiny window is something of a annoyance though, especially at largish font sizes. Incidentally, * href=# - a link to the top of the page is a pretty poor fallback should the JavaScript not run for any reason. * onclick=javascript:something - javascript isn't a great name for a label, and there isn't any loop here to label (that syntax does not mean 'this event handler is written in JavaScript'). * The links in the site bar are the ultimate in mystery meat navigation. http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/mysterymeatnavigation.html -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] pop-up - onblur question
Donna Jones wrote: It is the same circumstances as I described previously, although my browser seems to have become smarter since I last ran across anyone doing something like that and doesn't automatically give the window a focus to lose when it opens now (of course, if I want to copy/paste data from it, then I'm going to run into trouble no matter what techniques I use to focus windows). not sure why there would be trouble copy/pasting data, i don't have any trouble selecting it. Copy a bit. Paste it in another window. Go to copy another bit. Oh, its gone. Windows are not things that usually vanish because you give your attention to something else for a moment, so this behaviour contradicts user expectations. Dealing with that tiny window is something of a annoyance though, especially at largish font sizes. yes, i know. but i did just increase the font size at least once and it felt reasonable to me, not a lot of scrolling and, of course, its easy to scroll down with the arrow/cursor keys. Still a more scrolling then if it used the window the user provided rather then trying to make its own. * href=# - a link to the top of the page is a pretty poor fallback should the JavaScript not run for any reason. not sure what you're talking about here, i guess the link at the bottom, but it does work without javascript. No, the bio link itself, and it doesn't work without JavaScript. It just links to the top of the page. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] pop-up - onblur question
Donna Jones wrote: No, the bio link itself, and it doesn't work without JavaScript. It just links to the top of the page. so, ended up trying to fix this but have no clue how to do it. Have the href attribute point at something sensible (not #). Have the JavaScript do what you want, and return false from it to prevent the link being followed. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] input name and id
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The HTML XHTML definitive guide from O'Reilly states that NAME is a required attribute in INPUT. Can I just substitute ID for NAME and still adhere to web standards or is NAME really required? I'm coding for HTML 4.01 strict. The name determines the control name for the purposes of submitting the form to the server. An id can't take the place of name for this as it makes having multiple elements with the same name[1] impossible. An id should be added for the purposes of anything client side - including assigning labels to controls using the for attribute (since support for that method is stronger then nesting the input inside the label element). [1] This is often convenient, and in the case of radio buttons - essential. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] handling accessible form
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Despite Internet Explorer's inexplicable belief to the contrary, id and name are not the same thing. Care to elaborate on what the issues in IE are? It thinks id and name are the same thing. http://dorward.me.uk/tmp/id-vs-name.html -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Valid and well-formed
On Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 09:39:16AM +0100, Nick Fitzsimons wrote: He says that they are perfectly valid from an SGML point of view but not well-formed. I think he believes that the validator only uses an SGML parser, but it will use an XML parser when appropriate (XHTML served with the correct MIME type). The current stable version of the W3C Markup Validator only, as far as I know, has an SGML parser, but one which has a (buggy) XML mode. The current beta version (http://validator-test.w3.org/) has a real XML parser which it switches to for XML MIME types and text/html documents with a Doctype that it recognises as being XHTML. http://validator-test.w3.org/whatsnew.html#t2007-04-19 -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Valid and well-formed
Stuart Foulstone wrote: Validation concerns the correctness of the syntax of the code, i.e. if the tags, etc. are properly coded. Well-formedness concerns the structure of the document, i.e. where in the document headings , paragraphs, etc go. You've got those backwards. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Valid and well-formed
Lachlan Hunt wrote: That article is actually only talking about the cases where the W3C validator has known XML limitations. Which are removed in the current beta. http://validator-test.w3.org/ -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Acronym tag usage
-Original Message- Just how extensive should our use of the acronym tag be? For example, if I have a page devoted to explaining what a Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) is, should I tag MSA with the acronym tag every single time it's mentioned? Isn't it just an abbreviation rather then an acronym? If not, how do you pronounce it? Mesa? The HTML spec is, sadly, unclear on this point. WCAG suggests: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#text-abbr -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Acronym tag usage
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz Then I think it is a screen-reader issue as I believe there is no point to have this as default setting since documents are supposed to contain the expansion in plain text already... Specify the expansion of each abbreviation or acronym in a document where it first occurs. [Priority 3] http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-TECHS/#tech-expand-abbr Well ... (a) Those are guidelines which are designed (among other things) to work around limitations in user agents And (b) It doesn't say in plain text, and the example given uses the title attribute: PWelcome to the ACRONYM title=World Wide WebWWW/ACRONYM! (and its another initilism mislabelled as an acronym) -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Semantics and small
From: Jixor - Stephen I: To me small would imply of less importance, like a side note. if you just want text to be smaller for design purposes it shouldn't be in a small ... well since the specification says exactly the opposite of that ... 'Renders text in a small font.' -- http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/graphics.html#h-15.2.1 -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?
On 25 May 2007, at 11:54, Alastair Campbell wrote: Wordpress will, however, you might have to dig around to prevent it putting in closing slashes on head elements. (Closing slashes on content items such as images are fine, they are within the body and do not cause validation issues.) Not causing validation issues does not make them fine; even if the vast majority of user agents don't respect it, img / in an HTML document means An image element followed by a greater than sign. The HTML specification explicitly advises authors to avoid them: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/appendix/notes.html#h-B.3.7 -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] dl v table for form layout
On 25 May 2007, at 15:40, Stuart Foulstone wrote: The for attribute should NOT be used when the label tag encloses the label text. Why not? The specification doesn't appear to forbid it. Does it cause problems in any user agents? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?
On 29 May 2007, at 12:50, Alastair Campbell wrote: On 5/25/07, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not causing validation issues does not make them fine; even if the vast majority of user agents don't respect it, img / in an HTML document means An image element followed by a greater than sign. The HTML specification explicitly advises authors to avoid them: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/appendix/notes.html#h-B.3.7 Interesting, but I don't understand how that section applies? How do you get from these constructs technically introduce no ambiguity in that section, to a self-closed image being An image element followed by a greater than sign? Because, in an HTML document, an XHTML style img tag unambiguously means An image element followed by a greater than sign. Especially since this case is explicitly shown in the compatibility guidelines (http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#C_2). ... because most browsers don't support img / correctly in HTML documents, you can write XHTML documents that are compatible with most HTML user agents (this is not the same as being compatible with HTML). Is Vlad from Xstandard wrong when he said: if an authoring tool generates XHTML in a backwards compatible way, then there is no need to have a configuration to produce either HTML or XHTML. The backwards compatible XHTML will work in HTML and XHTML templates. (http://alastairc.ac/2007/02/wysiwyg-editor-spec-checklist/ #comment-12741 ) Depends on your definition of work. It renders as the author intends in most HTML user agents. It doesn't mean what the author intends in anything that parses the HTML correctly. Or is this a case of it doesn't quite comply to part of a spec but No. The spec allows img /, it just means something different. doesn't make any difference in practice? W3 used to parse the construct correctly under HTML rules (when I used it from time to time). Since then, I think they have crippled its HTML handling to cope with the amount of bad markup out there. If it isn't, perhaps the W3C's HTML validator should be updated? Anywhere an img element is allowed in an HTML document, a greater than sign is also allowed. So the construct is valid and the validator should not claim otherwise. It just doesn't mean what the author intends. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: self-closing tags in HTML, was: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?
On 29 May 2007, at 14:55, Andrew Maben wrote: On May 29, 2007, at 9:26 AM, David Dorward wrote: Because, in an HTML document, an XHTML style img tag unambiguously means An image element followed by a greater than sign. Sorry to be dense, I'm trying to grasp this concept. Does (at least strictly speaking) the inclusion of a forward slash within the tag of any element prevent the tag in question from being terminated? No. A forward slash terminates the tag (so the character is outside the tag, so its character data). In HTML all these mean the same thing: img / img imggt; (and title/ foo / means the same as title foo /title) ... because most browsers don't support img / correctly in HTML documents How is img / (or presumably br /) correctly supported? And which browsers do correctly support it? An image (or line break) followed by a character. So Hellobr / World should be rendered: Hello World (in HTML). The only browser I know of, off the top of my head, that gets it right is W3 (and as mentioned, I believe it was intentionally crippled to cope with fallout from Appendix C). Of course nsgmls and related programs also get it right. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: Use of Fieldsets other than in form?
On 5 Jun 2007, at 19:22, Paul Novitski wrote: The FIELDSET definition could easily have included: (INPUT|SELECT|TEXTAREA|BUTTON)+ or: (%formctrl)+ But it doesn't. And if it did then the fieldset couldn't contain elements that add extra semantic information about the form controls, their labels, and their relationships to each other. The DTD almost always errs towards the liberal, it is expected that documents be written according to the prose of the specification and not just the machine readable components of it. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Back to the Future
On 12 Jun 2007, at 17:04, Chris Taylor wrote: I've been asked to write a website that MUST work in Netscape 4.03 and IE 3 for Windows 3.1. When you've stopped laughing I'm afraid I have to say I'm serious, and there's no chance at all that the people connecting to the site will upgrade. So, any tips to do this without reverting all the way back to 1996 tables and spacer gifs? Or am I doomed to non-standards hell? Does 'work' really mean 'look the same'? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Skip to Content?
On 28 Jun 2007, at 10:34, Frank Palinkas wrote: As you mention, I'm experimenting with moving the skip to content link off screen with a margin-left of -em, leaving its markup intact just above the floated global nav div. ... where keyboard users can focus it, but not see it. If you feel you must hide content from users who can see, then please bring it back into view when they point at it. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Shadow validation
On 10 Jul 2007, at 04:20, Dean Matthews wrote: On Jul 9, 2007, at 10:23 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: Not really, just chose the appropriate options (advanced...) when you try to validate a file. Yes I see, but how do you link a Valid CSS icon to an advanced search? Validate it, then copy/paste the URL (don't forget to convert ampersands to entities). Or see http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/validation.html#icon -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an inline element (inside a block element) sibling of another block element
On 26 Jul 2007, at 11:14, Micky Hulse wrote: Rimantas Liubertas wrote: Why not to check it? From HTML 4.01 Strict DTD: ...snip... Woohoo, A is here. Case closed. Well, that went over my head... Mind explaining? http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/intro/sgmltut.html#h-3.3 -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Target 1st item in list
On 27 Jul 2007, at 00:08, Nick Roper wrote: I need to target the 1st item in a list. http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/selector.html#first-child But: http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support-css#css2pseudoclasses -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Auto scaling within a table's background image
On 1 Aug 2007, at 09:34, lisa herrod wrote: On 01/08/07, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Web Standards say only use tables for tabular data - not presentation. Stuart, I think you're referring to WGAG 1. Lets look at HTML 4.01 instead, which is somewhat clearer on the subject: Tables should not be used purely as a means to layout document content as this may present problems when rendering to non-visual media. Additionally, when used with graphics, these tables may force users to scroll horizontally to view a table designed on a system with a larger display. To minimize these problems, authors should use style sheets to control layout rather than tables. -- http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/tables.html I'm not at all advocating the use of tables for layout, but where it is absolutely necessary: I don't think I've ever encountered a situation where it was absolutely necessary to use tables for layout. It might be the only way to achieve a given presentation, but is that presentation really absolutely necessary? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Auto scaling within a table's background image
On 2 Aug 2007, at 16:10, Kepler Gelotte wrote:
One thing to remember is that absolute
positioning is from the next higher block element.
No. Positioned element, not block element.
Doctype?
html
head
style
Type attribute?
img.stretch {
width: 250px; /* 300 - 50 */
height: 250px; /* 300 - 50 */
z-index: -1;
position: absolute;
top: 50;
left: 50;
50 what?
--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
Re: [WSG] setting fontsize in body
On 7 Aug 2007, at 11:37, Rick Lecoat wrote: However, I always get a nagging doubt whenever this issue is raised. Because whilst the argument for leaving default text sizing at 100% of the browser's default size, and for not making assumptions about the user's settings, is a good one, it does /itself/ make the assumption that the default has been chosen /proactively/ by the user. No, it assumes that the user has either chosen the size they like or isn't sufficiently dissatisfied with the vendor supplied (after much usability testing) default to find out how it can be changed. And I always wonder how many people, particularly the older generation who (without wanting to generalise too much) may not be quite as tech- savvy as their kids, actually have no idea that the default text size can even be adjusted, and possibly look at browser-default text and think That text looks a bit big and clunking. But I assume that there's nothing I can do about except use the text resizing control in IE. This would be the older generation who tend towards having poor eyesight and needing larger font sizes? I've never seen a designer make body text bigger then the vendor default, only smaller and harder to read. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Internet Explorer and XHTML support (was: (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link)
On 10 Aug 2007, at 09:48, Dean Edridge wrote: David. New features added. Really? I don't think I'm asking too much to be able to use features that have been W3C recommendations for 8 years. It would be nice, but I don't think that it should be a priority just because its been a recommendation for a long time. Nor was I suggesting that bug fixing be overlooked as these new features be added. Given limited resources, only so much can be done. I think a complete and less buggy implementation of HTML 4.x, CSS 2.x would be more useful then XHTML support. It's not for you or anyone else to decide that XHTML has little benefits and then push for the deprecation of it. I'm not. I just don't think the benefits of it as a target language for authoring web pages are significant when compared to other technologies that support could be improved for, and I'd rather see those worked on first. Pretending that Internet Explorer has not held back the progress of the web is not in the best interest of Web Standards in general. I'm not doing that, though, but IE 6 was pretty good (compared to the competition at the time) when it came out. It fell behind because development work ceased on it for over half a decade. Complaining about that now that work has resumed on it isn't particularly productive. It's 2007, surely people should be able to use XHTML and SVG by now. HTML 4.01 and CSS 2 are older standards then either of those. Surely people should be able to use all their features by now? And aren't there several third party plugins that add support for SVG to IE anyway? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link
On 10 Aug 2007, at 09:34, Tee G. Peng wrote: I think bottom posting (is this how it's called?) is equally bad when one needs to scroll all the way down to read a few line of message. The solution to this problem is not top posting (digest users still have to scroll past the entire repeated messages), it is limiting quotes to only relevant material. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] (X)HTML Best Practice Sheet goes live - correct link
On 10 Aug 2007, at 08:53, Dean Edridge wrote: But it's not supposed to work in ie5, 6 or 7. It's a XHTML document. But why? I can't see anything that could not be expressed in HTML in that document. Internet Explorer is rubbish Its improving. does not support Web Standards Nor does anything else, at least not completely. IE might be lagging behind, but its catching up. and has zero support for XHTML. I'd far rather see bugs fixed then new features added. Client side XHTML support would bring benefits to far fewer authors then fixing all the interesting CSS bugs would. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Investigating the proposed alt attribute recommendations in HTML 5
On 30 Aug 2007, at 17:51, Designer wrote: If a user is unfortunate enough to have eyesight which dictates that he/she has to use a screenreader, it is unlikey that he/she will get much out of flickr anyway. Even with alt tags, reading that he/she is 'looking' at a picture of 'my cat' or 'my birthday party' would be singularly dull, I'd have thought! On the other hand, if I'm looking at Flickr with images turned off because (a) my service provider charges me per megabyte of data that I use and (b) my connection is very very slow, then its quite useful to be able to tell if a picture is of my car or my birthday party before telling my browser to load the thumbnail. Lots of people seem to be hung up on the idea that alt text is for blind people, but there are quite a few other use cases for the attribute. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Investigating the proposed alt attribute recommendations in HTML 5
On 9 Sep 2007, at 16:33, Michael Yeaney wrote: I find it interesting that everyone responding to this thread has failed to mention one very important aspect of any design-for-accessibility debate: Until you actually test it with a target audience/persona (i.e., someone who actually **is** blind), People seem to be rather hung up on the idea that alt text is for blind people. Some sighted people do use text browsers. Some sighted people do disable images in their browsers (I'm one of them and my last cellphone bill still had £20 of data charges on it). Then there are search engine indexing bots, and probably a host of other use cases. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Speaking of alt tags . . .
On 11 Sep 2007, at 10:00, Mohamed Jama wrote: First of all isn't ALT an attribute not a TAG? Yes, it is. (but see Part 5 of NOT the comp.text.sgml FAQ http:// www.flightlab.com/~joe/sgml/faq-not.txt :) 1. When should one use an empty tag? I don't think you should empty attribute to start with, its all noted down in your DTD if you open it up for example the strict.dtd and search through you'll find this paragraph !-- To avoid accessibility problems for people who aren't able to see the image, you should provide a text description using the alt and longdesc attributes. See also the description of the attribute recommendation, which is normative and not a comment: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html#adef-alt In particular: 'this attribute specifies alternate text' Note that it says alternate not descriptive. and: 'Do not specify irrelevant alternate text when including images intended to format a page, for instance, alt=red ball would be inappropriate for an image that adds a red ball for decorating a heading or paragraph. In such cases, the alternate text should be the empty string ().' Which positively embraces the use of an empty string. Why would you have an empty attribute, just write something inside it if you already took the time to add the attribute. Because the attribute is mandatory but the image might be decorative, or present information that appears elsewhere in the page in a visual manor, so a non-empty string would not be an appropriate alternative. alt= effectively says The author has considered this image and determined that if it can not be displayed then nothing should be put it its place. A number of user agents (Lynx included) take a missing attribute (which is a syntax error) to mean The author has not considered alternative text at all, so the user agent should present as much information as is known (such as the file name) to the user in the hope they can infer some meaning from it. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible - Standard Compliant - Club Membership System
On 13 Sep 2007, at 23:09, S.R. Emerson wrote: Is there a particular reason you have specified XHTML? So it is upgradeable for the future. Well ... HTML 5 is being developed so XHTML is likely not the future, converting from HTML 4.01 to XHTML 1.0 isn't difficult anyway, and Appendix C is something of a pain. I wouldn't look so far to a possible (and increasingly unlikely) future at the expense of the present. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible - Standard Compliant - Club Membership System
On 14 Sep 2007, at 10:37, David Little wrote: Well ... HTML 5 is being developed so XHTML is likely not the future, I was under the impression that you'll also be able to write HTML 5 in XHTML syntax (as XHTML 5, obviously different from XHTML 2 which is a different concept?). They are still planning this, but the point is that HTML is not dead, (real) XHTML is still badly supported among user agents, and support for other namespaces mixed with XHTML (which is the only major benefit for it on the client side) is even worse. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links
On 17 Oct 2007, at 13:55, Rick Lecoat wrote: can anyone tell me what is the best accessible way (if any) of encoding a mailto: link? I want to make the email addresses on a site usable to screen reader users, but don't want them harvested by spambots. I, long ago, gave up trying. Methods are either highly ineffective, or block out users you want as well as spam bots. I take the view that email addresses are going to end up on spam lists eventually no matter what I do, and just run spam filtering software. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Input tag - closing tag optional?
On 21 Nov 2007, at 05:12, David Hucklesby wrote: Trying to help a friend with their form markup, I suggested they look up the W3C specifications. Their question was does the input tag require a closing /input. I told them categorically no but was embarrassed to see this in the W3C specs[1]: !ELEMENT INPUT - O EMPTY -- form control -- Now, I read that as closing tag optional. So I am wrong. Or am I? From: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/intro/sgmltut.html#h-3.3 'The hyphen and the following O indicate that the end tag can be omitted, but together with the content model EMPTY, this is strengthened to the rule that the end tag must be omitted.' -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Numbers in HTML 5 Was: Appropriate use of the ABBR tag and Roman Numerals
On 2 Dec 2007, at 13:08, Keryx Web wrote: Consider the following, more common problem: I want to write a big number, say 2345678912.123 How big was it? Hard to see, isn't it? Let's add thousand separators the American way: 2,345,678,912.123 Yea, now I see how big it really is. But in Sweden we would write it like this: 2 345 678 912,123 Bu neither way is good for anyone using a screen reader. I would like the screen reader to actually say: 2 billion 345 million 678 thousand 912 point 123 Not: 2 comma 345 comma 678 comma 912 point 123 Is the information needed to do that not available from the lang attribute? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Downloading a WAV
On 12 Dec 2007, at 05:39, Hayden's Harness Attachment wrote: I appologize if this is off topic. On a web site I would like to create an accessible link that will download a WAV file to a user's computer to pplay in their own media player. I am only aware of a href= title=/a. any help and comments welcome? What is inaccessible about that? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part
On 14 Dec 2007, at 14:42, Michael Horowitz wrote: A monopoly is when government gives someone the ability to legally ban competitors. That is a specific type of monopoly (a government-granted monopoly). Other types of monopoly exist. It's not difficult to go to http://www.opera.com/download/ and get the opera browser. If consumers choose not to do this I don't see a role for government. In an environment where consumers have perfect information, then this is fine. The merits of the respective browsers would mean that consumers would choose whatever best suits them. The market does not have perfect information though, very large numbers of consumers are either unaware of alternatives to Internet Explorer exist, or that there are benefits to switching. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] w3c link checker
On 8 Jan 2008, at 01:10, dwain wrote: i have been trying to check the links on my web site. it has 176 pages, but the link checker only checks a maximum of 150 links. who would i contact to ask for a larger number of pages (links)? i went to the w3c web site and have not found a contact link for the link checker. They have limited resources to devote to providing free QA services. You can download the link checker and install it on your own systems, if you do so you can change the cap. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] w3c link checker
On 8 Jan 2008, at 20:22, dwain wrote: http://search.cpan.org/dist/W3C-LinkChecker/ i looked at the downlad file and it's a tar.gz. i run windoze. how would i install it on a windoze box? http://search.cpan.org/src/SCOP/W3C-LinkChecker-4.3/docs/ checklink.html#install (but see http://www.perl.com/download.csp when you hit step one, the link isn't all that useful). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Where did I come from?
On 18 Jan 2008, at 14:24, Simon Cockayne wrote: I am on a webpage...how do I know what page the browser was previously showing. Reliably? You can't. Unreliably? The (optional) HTTP referer header (which is munged by some personal firewall solutions). NOTE: I don't want to use the History object to go back or forward...I just want to know what the previous page was...so I can create a button to go back to it... The user already has several of those. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Where did I come from?
On 18 Jan 2008, at 17:23, Christian Snodgrass wrote: You shouldn't always assume that they are just trying to replace the back button. As assumptions go, when they say so I can create a button to go back to it..., it is a pretty safe one. And, not everyone knows about the back button. Don't assume... The back button should be one of the very first things people learn about when they are introduced to the web. If you suspect that your users do not, then creating a custom control that works only for your site instead of educating them about the software they use, is doing them a disservice. Additionally, an in page control marked back causes confusion since users don't know if it will act in the same way as their back button or go forward to the previous URL (which it is will alter the effect on the normal back button). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Usability for downloading documents
On 28 Jan 2008, at 18:04, Rochester oliveira wrote: Doesn't have a way to force the don't download? It is difficult to make a PDF open in a plugin if the user doesn't have that plugin installed. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Conflict between Mime Type and Document Type
On 28 Jan 2008, at 23:22, Andrew Freedman wrote: I see this warning often when using the W3C validator and figured I must be doing something wrong, but as it is a warning I never bothered looking into it. Now I've seen it on the results from this site so it has roused my curiosity. Can some explain to me why this is occurring and how it is overcome. URLs make things easier to debug, but most likely you are serving a document that: (a) Is XHTML (b) As text/html (c) Is not a version of XHTML that may be served as text/html (i.e. XHTML 1.0) It is generally best to just stick to HTML 4.01. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
On 29 Jan 2008, at 13:48, Dave Woods wrote: Using an HTML5 doctype will remove the need to include the meta tag. What a shame that HTML5 has only just released its first official draft ... which has comments like: 6.3.5.2. Broadcasting over Bluetooth Does anyone know enough about Bluetooth to write this section? It is going to be a long time before claiming conformance to HTML5 is going to be a sane thing to do in production. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] long description and its implementation
On 2 Feb 2008, at 06:26, dwain wrote: i was saddened by the D link being deprecated. I'm not; as techniques go, it is ugly and confusing. Unless a user is aware of the convention, they are left wondering what a link labelled d means. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] long description and its implementation
On 4 Feb 2008, at 02:08, Susie Gardner-Brown wrote: A further query on the longdesc attribute. Is there any reason why I couldn’t use it on a Flash animation? Because object doesn't suck as much as img (from a design point of view, browser implementations rather wreck the idea). object data=my.swf pDetailed alternative content/p pIncluding multiple paragraphs and img src=foo.jpeg alt=images longdesc=foo.jpeg.html/p /object Since object is designed to allow rich alternative content, it shouldn't see a longdesc attribute. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Hero Style Presentation
On 5 Feb 2008, at 09:43, Web Man Walking wrote: Hello I remember seeing a few years ago a presentation done (in HTML) about Web Standards. It had a whole load of Super hero / Roy Lichtenstein style graphics. Anyone have a link, I really would appreciate it? Is this what you mean? http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/ -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] display differences firefox ie 7.0
On 7 Feb 2008, at 10:31, Darren Lovelock wrote:
If you place text-align: center; on the body tag in the CSS and
then margin: auto; on the first 'container' divider then the web
page should be centralised in Firefox and IE.
Like this:
body { text-align: center; }
#container { width: 960px; margin: auto; }
If you use that technique, then don't forget to set text-align back
to left on #container.
... but it is pretty pointless today - IE has supported margin: auto
for many years now. Just make sure you aren't in quirks mode.
--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
Re: [WSG] hello
On 15 Feb 2008, at 08:11, Gitanjali wrote: So web2.0 is the mixture of scripts, tools.. etc.. It is a vague and poorly defined buzzword that is of no use in a technical discussion. In a non-technical discussion, it means pretty much whatever you want it to mean. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] form problem
On 25 Feb 2008, at 22:46, Rob Unsworth wrote: br / -- changed from p/p p class=comments A line break immediately before a paragraph doesn't make sense. You probably should be using a margin instead. A form control and its label don't really qualify as a paragraph, a div is probably a better bet. label for=commentsComments:/label textarea name=comments rows=6 cols=35/textarea --Cols now 35 The for attribute of a label refers to the id attribute of a form control, your id attribute is missing. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
On 3 Mar 2008, at 11:52, jay wrote: The javascript in the suckerfish menus is there for the sole purpose of providing a hover attribute to the LIs in the navigation in IE: They work just fine in FF and other browsers with it. Providing the user isn't navigating with the keyboard or needs a time delay before the menu vanishes if they are using a mouse. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Safari 3.1 and webkit-border-radius
On 20 Mar 2008, at 19:34, Keryx Web wrote: tee skrev: I thought fieldset (with legend) are used only for form elements, I am curious why you would used it in your right column's content. A. It is valid. You may use it according to the DTD. Many things are valid. The DTD is not expressive of semantics. B. It is being used for grouping of content. So? C. I am not a minimalist in interpreting specs. It was developed for forms, but I have not seen that you SHOULD NOT use it outside of forms, i.e. it is not verboten. From the spec: The FIELDSET element allows authors to group thematically related controls and labels. Grouping controls makes it easier for users to understand their purpose while simultaneously facilitating tabbing navigation for visual user agents and speech navigation for speech-oriented user agents. The proper use of this element makes documents more accessible. Grouping controls and labels. Not anything, not content. Just controls and labels. D. It works and has no negative effects that I am aware of. It has the same negative effects as using tables for layout. E. I wanted the effect... Effects are the realm of CSS and JS, not markup. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?
On 27 Mar 2008, at 12:32, IceKat wrote: I do the exact same thing (clicking on underlined text which isn't a link) but it does make it very complicated to create access keys for forms because u was used to show which letter was the access key. Messing around with endless spans will discourage them. I'm really sorry there is no alternative as there is with b and i. Access keys have other problems, and while an underline might be a convention to indicate such things on some systems, it is hardly universal (or useful to blind users). Does anyone know an alternative to xmp? CDATA markers in XHTML documents (served with the right content type). I know you can use entitiy codes but this one saved the trouble and is now depreciated. Set up a macro in your text editor to do it. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] :: dropdown menus ::
On 27 Mar 2008, at 12:44, Amrinder wrote: I am stuck with dropdown menus. Uh Oh. http://www.message.uk.com/index.php?page=81 They are working fine in IE-7, and firefox and the evil IE6 doesn't render it. Should I use javascript or CSS for this. JavaScript. You can't minimise accessibility problems (such as those involved with tracking the mouse down a narrow column while suffering from arthritis) with CSS alone. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a target=” blank” not part of xhtml
On 27 Mar 2008, at 15:44, Michael Horowitz wrote: I just read how a target=”_blank” is not part of xhtml You read wrong. It is not part of Strict (HTML or XHTML), it is part of Transitional. Why not. Opening new windows is behaviour and thus out of scope for a markup language that describes document structure and semantics. I can't imagine its better practice to replace it with javascript. http://weblogtoolscollection.com/archives/2004/01/02/targetblank- xhtml-10-strict-conversion/ Not really - that makes it harder to filter out target=_blank with a proxy. Sticking to a single window is usually a better idea. http:// diveintoaccessibility.org/day_16_not_opening_new_windows.html -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a target=” blank” not part of xhtml
On 27 Mar 2008, at 16:31, Hassan Schroeder wrote: Michael Horowitz wrote: I just read how a target=”_blank” is not part of xhtml It's not part of XHTML 1.0 Strict or Transitional It is part of Transitional. -- it's part of XHTML 1.0 Frameset. Frameset is for frameSET documents, i.e. those with a frameset instead of a body. They aren't suitable for most pages on the web. They include the target attribute because the alternative content section lets you use anything in Transitional. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a target=” blank” not part of xhtml
On 27 Mar 2008, at 16:09, Rob Kirton wrote: I would recommend that you use target=_new and then use XHTML transitional DTD Don't do that. _new is not (X)HTML. http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/types.html#h-6.16 Paraphrasing: Except for the reserved names (_blank, _self, _parent, _top), frame target names must begin with an alphabetic character -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a target=” blank” not part of xhtml
On 28 Mar 2008, at 05:48, Jixor - Stephen I wrote: Yes but you choose to do so rather than being forced to do so. Usability tests still show that opening a new window confuses people. They can't work out whey they can't go back and don't seem to be aware of the task bar. I'm not sure how users react to tabbed browsers but in my own limited experience its very much the same, they seem totally unaware of the tab bar. The problem is compounded by systems which show only one item in the taskbar for all the windows for a given application. This saves space on the taskbar, but makes it less obvious when a new window is opened. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] accessible fluid button
On 4 Apr 2008, at 09:39, Matthew Pennell wrote: On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: YUI button from Yahoo http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/button/ How exactly is a button created with JavaScript accessible? Use the from markup methods described there. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SMTP
On 5 Apr 2008, at 00:58, Alexander Uribe wrote: I have just built a website that has a form page with a Submit button. I want to be able to recieve information without Outlook express popping up. Don't use action=mailto:; - http://www.isolani.co.uk/articles/ mailto.html One of my lecturer's advised me I needed the SMTP number from the host and then add in some code, however i cant find any information of how to set it all up. You need a server side script which is process the request and send the mail. The script, as part of it's configuration, might require you to enter the hostname of an SMTP server that the web server has access to. http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/forms/ is a useful resource. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Centering Elements
On 10 Apr 2008, at 05:19, Spirit Q.9 Gaming wrote: margin: 0 auto; or the margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; just the same for horizonal center. But i think it needs text-align: center for working with IE. Only if you really need to support IE5.5 and earlier, which most people don't do since they have an insignificant market share. http://dorward.me.uk/www/centre/#ie -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Shorthand rule for border?
On 17 Apr 2008, at 14:09, Cole Kuryakin wrote: This is something that I’ve been wondering about for a long time – a shorthand rule for borders. http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/box.html#border-shorthand-properties -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] animated scroll
On 24 Apr 2008, at 12:49, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi , You might want to try this. http://www.quidascript.com/index.php?main_page=product_infocPath=59products_id=125 I got this package it's cheap as chips and has hundreds of javascripts... Given the liberties they take with O'Riley's trademark ( http://www.quidascript.com/index.php?main_page=product_infocPath=4products_id=13 ), the sheer pain of On the loading of a page, this script changes background colors quickly then returns to normal and the doesn't-work- in-outside-ieness of Have your visitors easily bookmark your site into their browser favorites ... I would avoid this. It might be cheap, but any reward for producing something of that quality would be too much. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] animated scroll
On 24 Apr 2008, at 13:36, Ted Drake wrote: Ah, where's your sense of adventure? Buried under a desire not to see people rewarded for lowering the quality of the WWW :) -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Image links
On 1 May 2008, at 23:14, Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote:
This should work for you:
img a {
text-decoration : none;
}
No, it shouldn't.
img is an empty element, it can't have any descendants. If it can't
have any, then the selector An anchor that is a descendant of an
image can never match anything.
--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
On 3 May 2008, at 20:30, Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd wrote: There is the old faithful p aligncentreImage/p Which as far as I'm aware is valid in XHTML strict It isn't. http://dorward.me.uk/www/centre/ explains how to centre various things with CSS. Images are inline, so text-align on the parent element works. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
On 4 May 2008, at 12:47, Stuart Foulstone wrote: CSS classes are for presentation. There is no such thing as a CSS class. CSS is for presentation. HTML has classes. CSS selectors can match against HTML classes. Content is content. True Centering content is presentation. True Class names should not use keywords such as center. The specification does not forbid this. Keywords are context sensitive. It is generally good coding style to avoid it as it reduces confusion, but good coding style also suggests that HTML class names focus on the WHY not the WHAT - i.e. the reason for the presentation, not what the presentation is. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Firefox skips dropdown and multi-select list with tabbing (?)
On 7 May 2008, at 14:54, Scott Limmer wrote: Using the tabindex attribute on form elements should allow you to specify the tab order. This shouldn't help, and is likely to add confusion if there is anything on the page other than form controls. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Firefox skips dropdown and multi-select list with tabbing (?)
On 4 May 2008, at 12:57, tee wrote: I'd just noticed that Firefox skips the dropdown and multi-select list with tabbing. Anybody knows if there is a workround? I assume you are using a Mac? Go into the OS X System Preferences, then Keyboard Mouse, then Keyboard and set Full keyboard access to All controls. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] XHTML 1.1 CSS3 - Is it worth using right now?
On 13 May 2008, at 01:36, Nikita The Spider The Spider wrote: One big impediment to using XHTML 1.1 is that it must be sent with the application/xhtml+xml media type which makes IE6 choke. ... and IE7 and IE8. Adding support for XHTML hasn't been a priority for Microsoft (presumably because more people are going to benefit from better CSS support than from XHTML support). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessibility for HTML Email
On 15 May 2008, at 15:35, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote: What is the most accessible method to have email links on web pages? Probably: (1) Clearly flag it as an email address (2) Link it (3) Provide the address in easily copy/paste-able format for webmail users So: pEmail Jon at a href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/a./ p or possibly pa href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Email Jon at [EMAIL PROTECTED]/a./ p -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessibility for HTML Email
On 15 May 2008, at 16:13, Krystian - Sunlust wrote: How about the ultimate combo of a voice file with the email spelled out + an image of the email + alt tag on this image ? A lot oh hustle Transcribing an email address is more effect then a lot of people are willing to make. It's a good way to lose useful feedback. but it can't be botted ( AFAIK ) and is ultra accessible. OCR and voice recognition software exists, if the both author can be bothered to use it. It isn't accessible to users who can't handle the image or sound (e.g. braille users without speakers). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessibility for HTML Email
On 15 May 2008, at 16:32, Krystian - Sunlust wrote: Couldn't an alt tag be read by a braille browser thingie? A what? Do you mean attribute? There isn't much point in concealing the text of the email address in an image if you are going to include it as clear text in an alt attribute! -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] firefox 3 beta5
On 19 May 2008, at 10:37, kevin mcmonagle wrote: Recently it was pointed out to me that a site I built is breaking in firefox 3 beta five. How close is this to release? RC1 just came out Do i need to worry about this? the site works fine in current browsers-firefox and otherwise. I'd be concerned. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tag for quotes
On 20 May 2008, at 16:13, Rob Enslin wrote: Please could someone help me decide which is the most appropriate tag to use with quotes? These are actual comments made by folk during a show. You are quoting paragraphs, use blockquote. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] NoScript Help Please!
On 21 May 2008, at 07:11, IceKat wrote:
I'm totally hoping that someone can help me with this. I'm trying to
use noscript tags but I CANNOT get my page to validate. Below is the
section which is giving me trouble. Please can someone tell me what
the trouble is.
td class=delete_filenoscripta href=a_link.htm/noscript
img src=pics/delete.gif alt=Delete File /noscript/a/
noscript/td
Three issues:
1: A start tag starts an element, an end tag ends an element, and
elements must be contained entirely within other elements.
2: noscript is a very poor means of handling the 'no js case', it
doesn't cope with 'JavaScript supported, but not the functions you are
calling'
3: Links make GET requests, and GET requests shouldn't do anything
significant to the server (like deleting files). People have run into
problems with precaching proxy servers following all the links to get
the content available for users and deleting lots of files as they go.
For changes to the server, use POST.
I would do something like this:
form method=POST action=a_link.html class=delete_file
div
input name=delete type=image
src=pics/delete.gif alt=Delete File
/div
/form
And then:
script type=text/javascript src=http://yui.yahooapis.com/2.5.1/build/yahoo-dom-event/yahoo-dom-event.js
/script
script type=text/javascript
function deleteFiles(e, obj) {
YAHOO.util.Event.preventDefault(e); // Don't submit the form
normally
// And then whatever else you want your JS to do
}
var elements = YAHOO.util.Dom.getElementsByClassName('delete_file',
'form');
YAHOO.util.Event.addListener(elements, submit, deleteFiles);
/script
YUI documentation is available from http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/
--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
Re: [WSG] Fwd: using fieldsets and legends (outside a form) for adding structural markup
On 22 May 2008, at 05:15, Julián Landerreche wrote: I wasn't convinced at first because: - fieldset/legends are used in forms to group controls. This is common usage/practice, and even more, it's the usage recommended by the W3C, as some of you already remarked on this thread, .ç Yes, that is what fieldset is designed for. I wasn't convinced by counter arguments because: - this isn't a CSS/JS issue. In fact, the idea is to have it as structural labels/markup, that will be probably invisible for sighted users. I'm not trying to achieve something fancy, although I have said that fieldset+legend looks fine, and more important, helpful for users when CSS is disabled (browser default CSS) Most of the arguments against it (at least those which haven't been shot down already) were about semantics, not CSS or JS. And also, not convinced because of this other reasoning (hope it's not a fallacy): - if it validates (true) So do layout tables. DTDs can't describe the language in /that/ much detail. Eye halve a spelling chequer It came with my pea sea It plainly marques four my revue Miss steaks eye kin knot sea. and - if the W3C doesn't explicitly says anything about not using fieldset/legend outside forms (¿true?) They don't say you shouldn't use brbr to indicate the start of a new paragraph either. If the spec explicitly listed everything you shouldn't abuse markup for, it would be huge. Tables are an exception due to the widespread abuse they had when the spec was written. then - it could be used to add semantics or meaning in a new way outside forms. If that meaning is These controls should be groups, and here is their caption. Let me add other real-world examples of using/combining HTML elements/attributes to create new semantics, all well known by us: - ul li a = a navigation menu The semantics there are no new. A navigation menu is a list of links. This is just using the right markup for it. - div + abbr + span + predifined classes = microformats (chunks of HTML with added meaning). As Jason stated above: divs are for separating components/sections of a page and can be semantically very strong, especially when given a meaningful class or id name Microformats take some markup that is *correct* for a given pattern of content, add some class names and then document the pattern. Probably, at first, nobody though that by combining an unordered list of items with links could be seen as a navigation. The table of contents on the HTML 4 spec uses lists. So the idea has been around for a long while. In fact, before the Web Standards mindset change, not too many people were doing nav menus that way. No, they were using tables because the liked the way they rendered in browsers. And that's probably my point: trying to add new semantics and better accessibility with current HTML elements. The closest you can come to adding new semantics is agreed sets of class names, which isn't a very good way, but was about the only option open during the days when HTML wasn't being developed. What you are suggesting is taking old semantics and using them even though they don't fit. Fieldsets group controls and their labels. You can't just throw away all but the first two words of that. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fwd: using fieldsets and legends (outside a form) for adding structural markup
On 22 May 2008, at 11:12, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In any case, is this just a case of the browser inserting what it thinks should be there, as with tbody ? With tbody, the DTD says what must be there (and also that the start and end tags for tbody are optional). The DTD allows fieldset pretty much anywhere a block level element is allowed (since forms can contain pretty much any block element, and thus a fieldset needs to be allowed inside them in order to go inside forms properly). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute
On 28 May 2008, at 09:50, Michael MD wrote: I don't see the point of the null alt strings. A validator is a tool to help you ... its not the be all and end all - you need to interpret the results with a bit of common sense. It seems rather pointless and silly to just try to fool the validator. Null alt strings are not an attempt to fool the validator (well, they don't have to be). They are a way of explicitly saying There is no alternative for this image, it is just decorative or is repeating information that appears in the main body of text. suggestion: lynx (a free text-only browser) will probably help you a lot more for deciding how and where to use alt text ... This is a good approach. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Marking up company logo
On 30 May 2008, at 15:50, Thierry Koblentz wrote: I'd say when it comes to news the source is very important, so imho the publisher is key. Important? Yes. More important then the title? No. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Mixing CSS3 and CSS2
On 30 May 2008, at 23:30, James Jeffery wrote: I want to use CSS3 to create rounded corners but provide CSS2 markup for browsers that don't support it. Whats the best way to go about this? Taking a guess i would say use a CSS3 specific selector, so browsers that understand the selector will understand the code, those that don't won't. No, since support for rounded corners and support for CSS 3 selectors do not come hand in hand. Just use the property as normal, browsers that don't support it will ignore it. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] inline images in p
On 4 Jun 2008, at 15:23, Andrew famiano wrote: What's the best way to display inline images in a p? non, img src=facebook.png alt=facebook congue, arcu. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] inline images in p
On 4 Jun 2008, at 17:38, Andrew famiano wrote:
the problem is the alignment. how do you align the image centered
with the text?
img { vertical-align: whatever; }
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visudet.html#propdef-vertical-align
--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?
On 16 Jun 2008, at 11:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My 2 cents: I'm one of those standards freaks. But when my clients became overwhelmed with SPAM from their contact forms I had to bend the rules. And when I say overwhelmed I'm talking about several hundred SPAM emails for every one or two legitimate inquiries. I tried many standards compliant anti-SPAM techniques but the SPAMmers always found a way around them. Then I used JavaScript. It worked. It's still working. Not one single SPAM has gotten through in over two years. I haven't had a single spam make it through the JS-free forms I have backed with Akismet testing, and no false positives either (as far as I can tell). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?
On 16 Jun 2008, at 14:19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rubbish. I have plenty of experience of commercial-grade spam filters, and when 95% of received mail is spam, you don't have a hope of getting it all, unless you want to block a significant portion of legitimate mail as well. You don't need to get it all. You need to get enough that the remainder is manageable. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Browsers and Zooming
On 3 Jul 2008, at 13:41, James Jeffery wrote: Are all browsers now using zooming to resize pages? The latest version of each of the big four do by default. Happily, it can be turned off in at least some of them. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Validation
On 3 Jul 2008, at 17:01, Fuji kusaka wrote: I have a flash animation in my webpage and this causes a big problem when i have to validate the page. Can someone help me out? http://validator.w3.org/docs/help.html#faq-flash -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] ADA Compliant Flash
On 7 Jul 2008, at 15:50, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To answer your question, I think the general feeling is that if you wish to produce an accessible site, then it is far easier to build flashy effects accessibly with CSS etc than to make FLASH accessible. As far as I know, the accessibility features of Flash are not bad (although somewhat Windows-centric), it's just that most authors don't use them. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] [at]font-face confusion
On 14 Jul 2008, at 13:33, Love Web Design wrote: I have been asked by a client to embed a font on their website - this is a custom made truetype font, also something I have not been asked to do before. I have therefore took to my books/research to look it up but am coming across conflicting information. I am finding information on the internet and in the books that says [at]font-face has been deprecated in css2.1 but have found many references to web fonts for css3 using [at]font-face but with reference to little or no browser support! Brief history: * Introduced in CSS 2 * Not well implemented * Removed in CSS 2.1 * Push for it to appear in CSS 3 I believe that some support is there in Opera and Safari. I wonder if anyone has come across this recently, has a working solution or can advise or clarify? If it is body text, forget about it. If it is for small bits of text (headings and the like) then you might consider sFIR (search engines will tell you more). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] AJAX and Clickable Elements
On 18 Jul 2008, at 13:54, James Jeffery wrote: I am developing my first Ajax application. It links in with google maps and will allow users to anonymously plot markers on a map with images. There will be various clickable items such as: Get All Markers which will return a list of links to markers plotted in a given area. I am struggling to decide on what element to use for the clickable element. If I use an a the href will contain a # Why? Can't you have a sensible fallback (e.g. in case the user middle clicks to open in a new tab). and if I use a button I would need to create a form just to create a button that won't be sending any data, which seems overkill. Why? Buttons don't have to appear in forms. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] S separators and TACG
On 23 Jul 2008, at 13:24, Designer wrote:
I've been examining what happens if you put something inside an end
tag, such as /div sometext/character. The validator says:
name start character invalid: only S separators and TAGC allowed
here.
I googled, found lots of folk failing to add descriptors to a
closing div, but NOBODY explained what those terms mean. ('S
separators' and TAGC). If they are allowed, what are they? :-)
S is whitespace separator
[5] s =
SPACE | (32) space
RE | (13) CR
RS | (10) LF
SEPCHAR (9) HT
-- http://xml.coverpages.org/sgmlsyn/sgmlsyn.htm#C6.2.1
TAGC
-- http://www.w3.org/TR/sgml.l
--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
