[WSG] Help - newbie
Title: Message I have been writing html code for awhile now and and starting to realize how inaccessible and non-web compliant my pages are. I have always hand written code in Edit Plus 2, is there a better editor I can use for web standards ( like Dreamweaver MX ? ) and where should I start for tips on accessibility and standards compliance. Thanks for any help. Paul
RE: [WSG] Help - newbie
Thanks for the help. I realize it is I who has been writing the bad code and want to get away from it, I guess I am having a hard time getting around the idea of replacing tables with div tags or is that really necessary? As an example, if you want one, take a look at this page (http://www.m5i.com/wu/index13.php) that is coming under fire ( no need to rehash how bad the code is, the client has already informed me :-) ) How do you achieve the same spacing, and the forever repeating background on the header! Ahh ! Thanks for all your help, This forum is awesome! Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Cummiskey Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 11:12 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Help - newbie Paul wrote: > I have been writing html code for awhile now and and starting to > realize > how inaccessible and non-web compliant my pages are. I have always hand > written code in Edit Plus 2, is there a better editor I can use for web > standards ( like Dreamweaver MX ? ) and where should I start for tips on > accessibility and standards compliance. > > Thanks for any help. > Paul The editor doesn't make you write bad code-- you do :) I use edit plus2 for all of my dev work, and 99% of it is valid xhtml/css. the last 1% is because i'm on an MS system at work, and we all know how sometimes, theres just no way to "do it right" and serve a 99.9995% IE6 audience. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] .php extension
I have a template that I have created and am creating all my pages from that. I have named this file x.html but when I try and rename it to x.php, because I have some dynamic content on it, nothing displays. Any ideas why this happens ? Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Cummiskey Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 11:12 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Help - newbie Paul wrote: > I have been writing html code for awhile now and and starting to > realize > how inaccessible and non-web compliant my pages are. I have always hand > written code in Edit Plus 2, is there a better editor I can use for web > standards ( like Dreamweaver MX ? ) and where should I start for tips on > accessibility and standards compliance. > > Thanks for any help. > Paul The editor doesn't make you write bad code-- you do :) I use edit plus2 for all of my dev work, and 99% of it is valid xhtml/css. the last 1% is because i'm on an MS system at work, and we all know how sometimes, theres just no way to "do it right" and serve a 99.9995% IE6 audience. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] .php extension
I am on a hosted site, where would I find that file? Other .php pages display just not this one. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Elkan Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 2:20 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] .php extension You have to edit your httpd.conf file to process files of the .html suffix. Look for the line: AddType application/x-httpd-php .php make it: AddType application/x-httpd-php .html .php Easy!! ~Dave Paul wrote: >I have a template that I have created and am creating all my pages from >that. I have named this file x.html but when I try and rename it to >x.php, because I have some dynamic content on it, nothing displays. Any >ideas why this happens ? > >Paul > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of Brian Cummiskey >Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 11:12 AM >To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org >Subject: Re: [WSG] Help - newbie > > >Paul wrote: > > >>I have been writing html code for awhile now and and starting to >>realize >>how inaccessible and non-web compliant my pages are. I have always >> >> >hand > > >>written code in Edit Plus 2, is there a better editor I can use for >> >> >web > > >>standards ( like Dreamweaver MX ? ) and where should I start for tips >> >> >on > > >>accessibility and standards compliance. >> >>Thanks for any help. >>Paul >> >> > >The editor doesn't make you write bad code-- you do :) I use edit >plus2 for all of my dev work, and 99% of it is valid xhtml/css. the >last 1% is because i'm on an MS system at work, and we all know how >sometimes, theres just no way to "do it right" and serve a 99.9995% IE6 >audience. >** >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help >** > > >** >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help >** > > > > > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Areamaps
Do area maps still work in xhtml or are the gone by the way side ? The validator is not liking but if I swap id for name the map doesn't work ? Anyone ? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 3:01 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] .php extension Paul wrote: >I have a template that I have created and am creating all my pages from >that. I have named this file x.html but when I try and rename it to >x.php, because I have some dynamic content on it, nothing displays. Any >ideas why this happens ? > >Paul > > This may sound dumb, but I switched to php a few times, if you don't delete the old html file the browser will pick that up instead. But I'm sure you thought of that :-) Bruce Prochnau www.bkdesign.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] IE 6 will not pick up background image
Okay I have a page (http://www.m5i.com/m5hr/new/test.php), when I cross-browser check IE will not pick up the background image. Is this a syntax error, do you have to declare the background object a couple different ways ? Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Is it ok? Does it break?
HI All, First post I think, Could some people check this out and let me know if it breaks. It has been tested it in Opera, Moz and IE 6 And we think we have all the bugs out of it. Page and CSS validate. http://www.jewelled.com.au/users/shaun/item_view.php Thankyou. Paul. P.S Great list, and thanks to all the people who post the links to articles. I didn’t know CSS until a few weeks ago. And the last site I did was about 4-5 years ago all in tables J Paul. Jeweller / Part time web dev guy.
[WSG] center in IE
Title: Message
Trying to center the
image on a splash page but IE doesn't pick it up...page
is...
http://www.speakupnow.ca/4Life/test.html
the attributes of
centered are:
#centered
{ position:
absolute; top:
0; right: 0;
bottom: 0; left:
0; width:
315px; height:
148px; margin: auto;
border:none; }
Anyone have any
ideas ? Would it make any sense to make 2 different style sheets
?
Cheers
Paul
[WSG] moving elements
Title: Message If a user increases or decreases the text size on the page, how do I ensure elements maintain their spacing ? ex. http://www.speakupnow.ca/4Life/english/test.php , I want the menu graphic ( 4 red points ) to move downward if the text size is increased. Thanks
[WSG] Line spacing in MAC
Title: Message Page: http://www.speakupnow.ca/wu/index.php Problem, why is the line spacing erratic in MAC, I have line-height set to auto Much thanks for a quick response. Paul
[WSG] List Indenting
Title: Message I have tried a number of sites that show how to make lists so they won't indent yet my list keeps indenting on MACs, does anyone know a definitive solution ? For your reference the page I am playing with is, http://www.speakupnow.ca/wu/meetingrooms1.php Cheers Paul
RE: [WSG] List Indenting
Thanks Ron, It is an unordered list but your fix didn't do it, just lost
my bullets on the margin. I'll keep digging.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Pringle, Ron
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 1:40 PM
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'
Subject: RE: [WSG] List Indenting
I have tried a number of sites that show how to make lists so they won't
indent yet my list keeps indenting on MACs, does anyone know a
definitive solution ?
For your reference the page I am playing with is,
http://www.speakupnow.ca/wu/meetingrooms1.php
Cheers
Paul
Paul-
Assuming an Unordered list, try the following:
ul {
padding: 0;
margin: 0;
list-style: none;
}
Regards,
Ron
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RE: [WSG] List Indenting
Thanks Vicki I will take a look at those margins but the problem I am currently after is only happening when I view on a MAC, the links in the body, everything after the 1st link indents 20-30 px to the rightvery frustrating. Cheers Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vicki Berry Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 2:15 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] List Indenting If the problem you're referring to is the space to the left of your menu... On your #mainnavlinks div, set the left position and the left margin to 0. It's not the list that's causing that indentation. (Watch out for the margins on that div - you have specified margin *and* margin-left - whichever is specified last will be used. You might want to merge these.) Vicki. :-) Paul wrote: > Thanks Ron, It is an unordered list but your fix didn't do it, just > lost my bullets on the margin. I'll keep digging. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] List Indenting
Just did, on the UL class as well as the li class, no luck
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Iain Gardiner
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 2:18 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] List Indenting
Have you tried text-indent: 0?
--
Iain Gardiner
http://www.firelightning.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Pringle, Ron
Sent: 04 February 2005 17:42
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'
Subject: RE: [WSG] List Indenting
> Thanks Ron, It is an unordered list but your fix didn't do it, just
> lost my bullets on the margin. I'll keep digging.
My bad, I didn't understand what you were wanting. Try setting a
negative left margin on the bodylinklist class:
.bodylinklist {
margin-left : -18px;
}
The above lined up reasonably well on FF1.0 on the PC. I don't have a
mac to test on though.
Regards,
Ron
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RE: [WSG] List Indenting
I am still struggling with the list indenting, I have started building my page from scratch piece by piece and it seems when I change the position attribute from absolute to relative the list indents, anyone ever come across this before ? Page for reference: http://www.speakupnow.ca/wu/index1.php Cheers, Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vicki Berry Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 3:25 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] List Indenting Hi Paul, Ah, gotcha now. I wasn't seeing the problem as I was viewing in Firefox. Safari is fine, it's just MacIE. It's nearly 3am here and I'm battling to stay awake, but I had started to play with your code. Floating the ul left removes the problem with the list, but causes other problems. :-\ I'm going to call it a night now... hopefully someone else will spot the solution soon! Good luck with it... I totally understand the frustration. :-( Vicki. :-) Paul wrote: > Thanks Vicki I will take a look at those margins but the problem I am > currently after is only happening when I view on a MAC, the links in > the body, everything after the 1st link indents 20-30 px to the > rightvery frustrating. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] List Indenting
Sorry to be badgering the indented list but I have just put only the lists into my container and have the same properties for both lists, just different names, yet one indents and one does not. Anyone, anyone ? Page for reference: http://www.speakupnow.ca/wu/index1.php Ha ha, Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 3:16 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] List Indenting I am still struggling with the list indenting, I have started building my page from scratch piece by piece and it seems when I change the position attribute from absolute to relative the list indents, anyone ever come across this before ? Page for reference: http://www.speakupnow.ca/wu/index1.php Cheers, Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vicki Berry Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 3:25 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] List Indenting Hi Paul, Ah, gotcha now. I wasn't seeing the problem as I was viewing in Firefox. Safari is fine, it's just MacIE. It's nearly 3am here and I'm battling to stay awake, but I had started to play with your code. Floating the ul left removes the problem with the list, but causes other problems. :-\ I'm going to call it a night now... hopefully someone else will spot the solution soon! Good luck with it... I totally understand the frustration. :-( Vicki. :-) Paul wrote: > Thanks Vicki I will take a look at those margins but the problem I am > currently after is only happening when I view on a MAC, the links in > the body, everything after the 1st link indents 20-30 px to the > rightvery frustrating. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] List Indenting
Perfect, Thanks Sarah!
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sarah Wedde
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 4:20 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] List Indenting
On 2/7/05 8:14 AM, "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry to be badgering the indented list but I have just put only the
> lists into my container and have the same properties for both lists,
> just different names, yet one indents and one does not. Anyone, anyone
> ?
>
> Page for reference: http://www.speakupnow.ca/wu/index1.php
>
> Ha ha,
> Paul
Paul,
You still have a link to your external style sheet (with #mainnavlinks {
left : 21px;}) as well as your embedded styles.
Sarah
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[WSG] Browser Checks
This is more of a general standards question, but if you are designing a page for the public in general (in my case a university) at what point ( % wise _or_ # of browsers) do you say 'Okay this is the site, no more trying to accommodate obscure browsers/older versions of browsers." ? I know there is no stand pat answer but I would like to know what particular people use and if there is a common thinking. Just curious, Cheers Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Aligning bullets
Title: Message My bullets are lining up at the bottom of the ( see: http://www.speakupnow.ca/wu/audiovideo.php ) ? Is there a property I can set to align:top ? Paul
[WSG] More with the link bullets
Title: Message So I tried using the bullet image as a background on the li and it seemed to work in IE 6 but not Firefox or MAC IE5.1, can anyone take a gander and let me know what they think http://www.speakupnow.ca/wu/audiovideo.php Cheers Paul
[WSG] Tentative validation
Title: Message When I am validating I always seem to only tentatively validate ( i.e http://www.speakupnow.ca/wu/audiovideo.php ) , is there something I can add to my code to make it fully validate? Paul
RE: [WSG] Tentative validation
Thanks I added a content type in my header but it is telling me the issue lies with this line: http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd";> and I should change it to the new xhtml 1.1 transitional doctype, how does that doctype differ from what I am using, besides replacing Strict with Transitional. Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Isac Backlund Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 6:44 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Tentative validation Paul skrev: > When I am validating I always seem to only tentatively validate ( i.e > http://www.speakupnow.ca/wu/audiovideo.php ) , is there something I > can add to my code to make it fully validate? > > Paul Hi. Try adding at content-type mv icaaq ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Tentative validation
So what is the pure transitional doctype: http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd";> ? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Firminger Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 9:02 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Tentative validation You have a mixed doctype, the declaration says strict but the uri points to the transitional dtd. P > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Paul > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 11:28 PM > To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org > Subject: RE: [WSG] Tentative validation > > Thanks I added a content type in my header but it is telling me the > issue lies with this line: > > "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd";> > and I should > change it to the new xhtml 1.1 transitional doctype, how does that > doctype differ from what I am using, besides replacing Strict with > Transitional. > > Paul > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Isac Backlund > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 6:44 PM > To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org > Subject: Re: [WSG] Tentative validation > > > Paul skrev: > > > When I am validating I always seem to only tentatively > validate ( i.e > > http://www.speakupnow.ca/wu/audiovideo.php ) , is there something I > > can add to my code to make it fully validate? > > > > Paul > > Hi. > Try adding at content-type > > > > mv icaaq > > > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] DHTML scrolling list in css
Title: Message I am attempting to put a DHTML scroller (page for reference: http://www.m5i.com/m5hr/charts.php) on a page that is turning out to be a nightmare with tables, started it before I saw the light last month...anyway, when I try and redo the page using css the whole div scrolls right off the page, anyone use, see anything like this before ? I am looking around the net and not having any luck finding a work around. Thanks, Paul
[WSG] Links not working in MAC
Title: Message Hello all, I have a page, http://www.m5i.com/m5hr/test.php, with a scroller but the links do not work in MAC IE 51, anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance, Paul
[WSG] Pages reloading
Title: Message I am not sure if this is on topic or not but I have to issue a cry for help. There are a series of pages I am working on that have different floor plans that you can click on and you get a different floor plan image ( http://www.speakupnow.ca/wu/room_208.php ). The client is telling me that the pages 'flick' when they click on the link for each new floor plan as if it was loading a new page, but sometimes it seems very fluid and doesn't 'flick'. So I guess my question is ( if it's not shot down by a mod) is: 1) is there any better way to get around this problem then I am doing to make it more consistently fluid in it's reloading? 2) how do I tell my client that this is how it is ? thanks for any help, Paul
RE: [WSG] Pages reloading
The anchor links are to ensure it stays on the low side of the page where the floorplan images are located...why the floorplan images are 455-500 pixels down the screen...it was graphically designed by a print graphic artist who doesn't do web. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 1:11 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Pages reloading Paul wrote: > 1) is there any better way to get around this problem then I am doing > to > make it more consistently fluid in it's reloading? First of all, why do you have "#anchor" appended to each link? There's no real need for it, from what I can see. You *could* provide an additional bit of javascript which attaches to the links' onclick behaviour and simply loads the two new images and replaces the ones currently on the page. However, don't throw the baby out with the bath: keep the functionality as it stands, so that if js is unavailable/disabled, the pages still work. > 2) how do I tell my client that this is how it is ? Tell them how much more it's going to cost if they want it any other way? :-p -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re.dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Firefox usemap
Title: Message Have a page, checks XHTML 1.0 Transitional valid but Firefox is not picking up the usemap, any ideas? http://www.speakupnow.ca/wu/meetingrooms.php thanks Paul
[WSG] Centering
Title: Message Hi hope this isn't too simple a question but what am I missing in trying to get the menu_table to center on this page...http://www.kinggeorgev.ca/test_1.php Thanks, Paul Paul Gauci Director, Internet Development m5i.com t: 709.753.6227 f: 709.754.3990 m: 709.687.2617
[WSG] margin:auto not working on MAC
Title: Message Hi, Have a page that seems to be lining up fine everywhere I am checking ( Opera, Firefox, IE ), validates fine but is a little off on a MAC, seems like a margin is pushing the grey box in the middle, towards the right. Sorry no screenshot but the page is http://www.kinggeorgev.ca/test_1.php .. Any help is greatly appreciated. Paul
Re: [WSG] Recommended screen size
At 5/31/2007 08:31 PM, Tim Offenstein wrote: Anyone have a recommendation on what size screen to use as a baseline when designing for a new site? 800x600 or 1024x768 or something else? Ideally, I believe the baseline should be no assumption of screen size. Look at the spectrum of user agents: screen readers, Braille readers, handhelds, PCs, Macs, etc. Which populations of users will you choose to deny access to your sites? Design your sites so that they can be read on any of these devices and you'll be at the top of your field. Sure, read the stats, but don't misinterpret them. They won't really show you who to target. All they'll show you is how many people you can exclude by building fancy stairs and no ramps. Even if you could predict the screen size of a visual user agent, you still wouldn't know how large the user will size their browser window. Window size is more significant than screen resolution. A lot of PC users (including myself) maximize their windows by default, but that's by no means universal. For some interesting stats analysis see: Actual Browser Sizes by Thomas Baekdal http://baekdal.com/reports/Actual-Browser-Sizes/ Even if you could predict screen size and window width, you still wouldn't know how large the user has sized their text. How easy is it to enlarge text so that it spills out of your column widths, overlaps with other text or disappears off-screen, and becomes unreadable? With ingenuity you can design a page that works well with a wide variety of window widths and text sizes. Consider sizing page width in ems and max-width at 100% to let the page expand up to but not exceeding window width. Consider floating columns side-by-side so that they stack vertically when the window is too narrow for a multi-column layout. There's much, much more, but that's a start. I strongly recommend you join the CSS-D listserve and read their wiki: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Recommended screen size
Earlier I was suggesting that, instead of stats telling us who to target, they really tell us who to exclude. A fellow poster wrote: my blog 800x600 accounts for less than 2.5% of the traffic That poster appeared to be advocating for leniency, but let's take this example of screen resolution stats and turn them around. Let's say his stats apply to your website audience as well. 800x600: 2.5% = 100/2.5 = one in 40 visitors uses 800px-wide screen resolution (window width not mentioned). Let's say you design your site to look good at 1024 but crappy at 800. Every 40th visitor, on average, will have a bad experience. Is this what you want? Ask yourself not how many people you want to have a good experience on your site but rather how many people you want to have a crappy experience. What's your expected site traffic? 100 visitors a day? So two to three people every day will have a crappy experience on your site. 1,000 visitors a day? About 25 people every day will have a crappy experience on your site. 10,000 visitors a day? About 250 people every day will have a crappy experience on your site. Why would anyone want this? Why do web designers even think this way? For the most part, I think, they don't. They read the stats the other way around: they think, oh, great! 97.5% of my users will have a good experience! And they stop thinking there. Instead of trying to solve the problem they're relieved that the problem can be expressed as such a small number. Instead of thinking, "How can I make this work for everyone?" they're thinking, "Can I make this work for most?" "What's the cost of expediency?" "Can I afford to piss off a few people in order satisfy a lot?" So they don't actually perform the thought-experiments that lead to innovation and new design. This, I believe, is where you come in. Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Recommended screen size
Paul Novitski wrote: >>Every 40th visitor, on average, will have a bad experience... >>800x600: 2.5% = 100/2.5 = one in 40 visitors uses 800px-wide screen resolution (window width not >>mentioned). ... At 5/31/2007 11:32 PM, kevin mcmonagle wrote: These visitors probably wouldnt notice the difference between an 800 and 1000 wide layout. So you're saying that someone using an 800-pixel-wide monitor probably wouldn't know what it's like to see the same page with a 1000-pixel-wide monitor? And therefore they don't deserve to see a decent page? What's your logic, and where's your compassion? In school the teacher has to teach for the dumbest kids in the class and that ruins it for everyone else. Oh, I see. So from your perspective life is really like an elementary school classroom, and we're really like little ten-year-olds pouting because we're too spoiled and lazy to advance ourselves when the teacher is paying attention to the stupid, mute, blind, and crippled kids. Oh my god. You're advocating a paradigm in which we can win only if someone else loses. "There ain't enuf pixels on this ranch fer the two of us, Jethro!" *Pow!* *pow!* *splat!* Unless, of course, it's possible that intelligent design can provide a decent page for everyone. That, however, requires a real winner. It takes the motivation to make everyone succeed and the intelligence to figure out how to make it work, the compassion to care about people different from ourselves and the brilliance to find solutions where others have failed. Are you up for the challenge? Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
list etiquette [WAS: Re: [WSG] Recommended screen size]
At 6/1/2007 07:38 AM, Chris Williams wrote: "...the teacher is paying attention to the stupid, mute, blind, and crippled kids." Well, Mr. Compassion for the User... "stupid", "mute", "blind", "crippled"? Nice choice of words... Yes, I chose those offensive words deliberately to point up the attitude of the person to whom I was replying, who wrote, "...the dumbest kids in the class" However, I apologize to Kevin and to the list for posting such inflammatory sarcasm. I'm glad that folks are ignoring it and getting on with business. Warm regards, Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Recommended screen size
n from a horizontal sequence to a vertical sequence. Both of these scenarios dramatically alter the original graphic design of the page, but that's inevitable if one is to avoid horizontal scrolling. A page that's engineered to survive text enlargement this way will also survive display in a wide variety of window widths (and screen resolutions). Obviously there are limits to accommodation: if you enlarge the text until a single long word won't fit in your window width, horizontal scrolling or hidden text is inevitable. It's my job to minimize those effects. I'm not too worried that a page optimized for 1024 will look very different, even homely, at 800 or 600. Readability comes first, layout second. At times this seems to put me at odds with graphic designers, but really I'm just trying to help them reach the audience with as much of their vision intact as possible. Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Recommended screen size
At 6/1/2007 07:29 PM, Katrina wrote: However, the proactive stances also accepts that position is about to undergo a 360 degree change, with the advent of mobile devices with access to the internet. The iPhone will have a huge impact, not just because it can access the internet, but because it can access the internet with Safari, a HTML browser. And of course, the iPod have shown us just how 'cool' Apple gadgets are, and how quickly they are adopted. Kat, I appreciate your comments on proactive vs. reactive web engineering. Fortunately we can aim stylesheets specifically at handheld devices, at least. It's that enormous spectrum of larger monitors that are lumped together as one (media type "screen") that give designers such headaches. Regards, Paul ______ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] layout/font site test - please
At 6/2/2007 03:06 AM, Designer wrote: Sparked partly by the recent discussions on elasticity, I've been attempting to put together a 'template', based on em's and with a max-width. I've used an expression for max-width in IE <7 (pinched from Georg!). I've tested it in FF1.5, IE6 IE7, Opera 9, and Netscape 4.02. To accommodate the latter I've used a simple table instead of floating, but ignore this please - my main concern at this point is that the basics work without falling apart in other browsers. If you have time to do a check and comment I'd be really grateful. The links are dummies, apart from 'projects'. You can see it at: http://www.marscovista.fsnet.co.uk/newtemplate/template.html Nice work! In FF2 I can narrow the window to about 348 pixels before I get a horizontal scrollbar. IE7 doesn't support text enlargement very well. I'm getting a horizontal scrollbar as soon as I start enlarging the text, even when the apparent content width doesn't require it. I've been wrestling with that in my own layouts; I'm sure the solution is close at hand. Did you experiment with floating the menu so that it flips underneath the content (or vice versa) when horizontal space is constrained beyond a certain point? I imagine that will be necessary to support people who want three or more columns. You chose a background image for the header that nicely repeats horizontally as the page expands. To be more versatile I think it ought to repeat vertically as well to support high enlargement in modest window widths. Real world logos are most often single fixed image rather than a repeating pattern, but in many cases it's easy enough to fade them to monochrome to the right and below or blend them to a lower-level background image that does repeat (such as a gradient). If you size the cartoon in ems as well, I think you might be pleasantly surprised at how well it survives. Tedd Sperling has been doing a lot of that lately (<http://sperling.com/examples/zoom/>) and it seems to work pretty well -- as long as the crispness of the images isn't crucial to the communication, as it might be for a photographer's or artist's website. Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] layout/font site test - please
Paul Novitski wrote:
You chose a background image for the header that nicely repeats
horizontally as the page expands. To be more versatile I think it
ought to repeat vertically as well to support high enlargement in
modest window widths.
At 6/2/2007 11:08 AM, Designer wrote:
I think I'm too tired. I simply can't get the thing to repeat on
enlargement. I've put it in a div and put it as the background
there, but it still won't go vertical as well. I'm Confused! It's
123 by 236px in size. Maybe it's too high for this.
You must be tired! I can totally relate to that. Your stylesheet says:
#header {background : #830 url(../graphics/fencing.jpg) repeat-x left top;}
Change "repeat-x" to simply "repeat" to go both directions.
Regards,
Paul
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Re: [WSG] layout/font site test - please
At 6/3/2007 08:36 PM, Felix Miata wrote: http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/Sites/ksc/dancesrqb.html is the same basic layout, but without breaking IE's font resizer, with no special treatment for antique browsers, and without disrespecting the visitor's choice of font size. In Firefox 2, when the window width becomes too narrow and/or the text size becomes too large to allow the headline "The Dancer's Product Resource" to fit on one line, the headline wraps around with such a high line-length that the new line overlaps the content below the header. Regards, Paul ______ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] layout/font site test - please
> At 6/3/2007 08:36 PM, Felix Miata wrote: >>http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/Sites/ksc/dancesrqb.html On 2007/06/04 01:41 (GMT-0700) Paul Novitski apparently typed: > In Firefox 2, when the window width becomes too narrow and/or the > text size becomes too large to allow the headline "The Dancer's > Product Resource" to fit on one line, the headline wraps around with > such a high line-length that the new line overlaps the content below > the header. At 6/4/2007 09:13 AM, Felix Miata wrote: The question remains what, if anything, to do about that missing H1 content. One option is to simply dismiss it as a problem of inadequate consequence. As grounds to support this option: 1-Its title text contains the missing portion. 2-It's really only a subtitle to the real title contained in the graphic. 3-The dearth of people who actually need such giant text in proportion to the viewport width would likely be satisfied that the meat of the page is fully accessible. Another option would be to use JS to remove the graphic, reduce H1 font-size, and/or remove the added H1 letter-spacing when some chosen ratio of font-size to viewport width is found to be exceeded. Sorry, I don't see the problem. Why not simply allow the header block to naturally expand vertically when the headline wraps? The fact that the header contains both text and image isn't a show-stopper. In a case like this when the image has a monochrome background (here, white), simply apply that background color to the header block and position the image as desired (left top, left center, etc.). If the logo has a more complex background, simply extend the image to the side and below to give it a chance to fade to a repeatable monochrome or gradient which can be a repeating background image of its container. Here's a simple example: http://i-edu.org/ Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] reading the spec [WAS: Use of Fieldsets other than in form?]
At 6/4/2007 07:22 PM, Steve Green wrote:
Day after day in this forum some people seem to be hell-bent on abusing the
standards like this? Why?
I think the 'why' is important enough to merit mention; it's not just
a rhetorical question.
Most of us are trying to create the most sensible pages we can. To
do so we're using an incredibly sparse markup language with a few
very specific elements, a few vague ones, and enormous gaps between them.
We've all wished fruitlessly for HTML to support our efforts to mark
up content more semantically, and we're always looking for better
ways to do it. No wonder there are surges of effort to create the
next generation of HTML.
Some elements of markup must be taken quite literally ("horizontal
rule") while others are quite loose and metaphorical ("span"). Human
language at its very essence is metaphor. Depending on how you
squint at it, the spec can be read very loosely (the road to ruin) or
very strictly (the road to the padded cell). While the DTD is strict
in its stipulations of which elements can contain which others, the
spec's verbal descriptions of markup elements and the examples given
are often interpetable from a variety of angles, as we see every day
in this list. There's lots of wiggle-room in the HTML spec for
wishful, well-meaning web developers to seek elements that can be
comfortably stretched to cover a usage that might not have occurred to others.
I often wonder what the authors of the HTML spec feel when they
observe us web developers arguing over usage. A certain pride, for
sure, but also perhaps some embarrassment... on our behalf or their
own? So often we treat the document like it's a holy writ passed
down from on high, while it's really just a document written by some folks.
The description of the definition list is a prime example. Few of us
question the meanings of the words "definition" and "list" and yet
the atuhors of the HTML spec opened the door wide, first using the
alternative term "description" for the DD and then adding, "Another
application of DL, for example, is for marking up dialogues, with
each DT naming a speaker, and each DD containing his or her
words." The authors explicitly encouraged us to interpret the
element name "definition list" to include structures that are not
strictly definitions and even arguably lists. If a dialog can be
marked up as a list then why not use an unorderd list markup for a
series of paragraphs? (Please don't misunderstand me -- I'm not
arguing here that we ought to do so, I'm merely sketching the anatomy
of our disagreements.)
The vast majority of the debates of markup usage and semantics I read
-- and take part in -- turn on this very point: how metaphorically
may we interpret the spec? I have sympathy for those who want to
stretch the small, threadbare blanket of HTML to try to cover our
broad work; and I have sympathy for those who argue that a consistent
interpretation of the spec is necessary to build a solid body of
markup for the content-parsers of today and the future. We are all justified.
Perhaps our debates would be kinder if we ruminated longer on our
shared plight: abandoned on a barren planet with only fifty kinds of
parts with which to build everything we need.
Regards,
Paul
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Re: [WSG] Re: Use of Fieldsets other than in form?
At 6/5/2007 05:54 AM, Nick Fitzsimons wrote: It's only valid "by the DTD" in the sense that the DTD is incapable of expressing all the constraints imposed upon the usage of HTML elements; those constraints are made explicit in the spec by such means as the sentence you originally quoted. Hi Nick, I agree with most of the arguments for restricting FIELDSET to forms, including that the positioning of FIELDSET on the FORMS page of the spec appears to make the intended context of its usage quite clear. However, the DTD itself -- that rigid spine of the HTML spec -- is certainly capable of expressing descendant constraints. In this case it does not require that a FIELDSET contain any input controls at all, as I read it. Here's what it stipulates for HTML 4.01 Strict: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/sgml/dtd.html ...which I believe says that it must contain %PCDATA (character data) followed by LEGEND followed by optional %flow. %flow can be %block and/or %inline which leaves the list of descendants wide open. LEGEND in turn must contain (%inline;)* -- zero or more inline elements -- therefore none of FIELDSET's descendants must contain an input control. The FIELDSET definition could easily have included: (INPUT|SELECT|TEXTAREA|BUTTON)+ or: (%formctrl)+ But it doesn't. The English language comment in the DTD says "form control group" but the SGML syntax itself explicitly permits a FIELDSET group to contain no input controls at all. We can speculate on the reasons for this presumably deliberate lack of specificity -- perhaps the DTD engineers were leaving room for us to markup "display versions" of input forms, for example -- but we cannot argue that the DTD omitted this because it was incapable of expressing such contraints. To confirm my interpretation of the DTD I referred to: On SGML and HTML http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/intro/sgmltut.html Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: Use of Fieldsets other than in form?
At 6/6/2007 01:13 AM, David Dorward wrote: On 5 Jun 2007, at 19:22, Paul Novitski wrote: The FIELDSET definition could easily have included: (INPUT|SELECT|TEXTAREA|BUTTON)+ or: (%formctrl)+ But it doesn't. And if it did then the fieldset couldn't contain elements that add extra semantic information about the form controls, their labels, and their relationships to each other. Well, not really. The syntax allows us to eat our cake and have it, too: ((#PCDATA,LEGEND,(%flow;)*,(%formctrl)+) If I'm wielding the syntax right, that gives you all the flexibility of the current element definition while still requiring at least one form control per fieldset. Or maybe it needs room for more %flow elements, like: ((#PCDATA,LEGEND,(%flow;)*,(%formctrl,(%flow;)*)+) one chunk of character data, followed by: one legend, followed by: zero or more flow elements, followed by: one or more: form control, followed by: zero or more flow elements Mind you, FIELDSET's current content model definition doesn't look quite right to me: (#PCDATA,LEGEND,(%flow;)*) I read this to say, "required character data followed by a required LEGEND element followed by zero or more flow elements." This would appear to obviate the LEGEND coming first in the markup inside the FIELDSET: This is a legend... Where's the PCDATA between and ? Unless there's something about the syntax I'm not understanding, the content mode should make the PCDATA optional: ((#PCDATA)*,LEGEND,(%flow;)*) The DTD almost always errs towards the liberal, it is expected that documents be written according to the prose of the specification and not just the machine readable components of it. That's a very interesting assertion and gets right to the heart of many of the debates on this list. It sounds counter-intuitive to me: I would expect the prose to be more liberal than the machine-readable DTD. Can you recall the source of that expectation? If we could nail that one down it would certainly help clear up much of the apparent tension between the very specific DTD and the comparatively loose descriptive passages of the spec. I read the HTML spec as an annotated DTD, using prose to discuss and exemplify the element and attribute definitions for us mushy wetware types. Every section of the spec begins by quoting the DTD and then discussing those definitions. On a quick re-reading of the spec's introductory sections I don't see where we're advised to place more authority in the prose than in the DTD. Just to maintain perspective let me add that I'm pursuing this aspect of the discussion NOT as a campaign for fieldsets without form controls (I feel that part of the debate has been laid to rest) but rather because I want to better understand the DTD and its relationship to the spec, especially in a case like this where they appear to contradict. Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Drop Down Menu Example
On Jun 6, 2007, at 1:18 PM, Ryan Moore wrote: was just looking for an example of a good accessible drop down menu for part of a web application i'm developing. I've used this very simple package many times. http:// www.projectseven.com/tutorials/navigation/auto_hide/ Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Paul Chandley/HeadOffice/DHS is out of the office.
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RE: [WSG] Safari now on Windows
> a friend called me on the weekend and said he can't find anything newer than > IE5 for OS9 but won't upgrade to OSX because it would be way too slow on his > G3. (and he doesn't have the money to buy a new machine) > now that is something to think about! Ah, nothing like a good bit of hardware AND software lock-in to make the user smile *ducks* *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Safari now on Windows
> Then how will you test for ... IE 5 Mac Like the rest of us - he won't :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] semantic HTML for intro text
Sorry, I've been away for a while and lost track of this, thanks to everyone for your comments. I think what you have said is right in that perhaps the intro text doesn't really have any semantic value, so there doesn't need to be any tag to match it. Thanks again for all your replies. On 26/05/07, Paul Novitski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: At 5/26/2007 10:04 AM, Designer wrote: >Presumably, and >would do the trick also? My own preference would be for the latter. >Of course, if you are referring to a GROUP of paragraphs >constituting the introduction, then Paul's class would have to be used. Yes, either an introduction consisting of multiple paragraphs or multiple introductions on the same page. Since we don't really know the present and future architecture of the site in question, either of those possibilities seems so likely to occur, particularly the former, that painting oneself into a corner with id seems to beg for the busywork of modifying markup & stylesheet down the road. Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] 1 pixel gap
Hi all, Just got a 1 pixel gap at the left of my image here that is baffling me. It is happening in Firefox and Safari on Mac - the only browsers I have tested in so far. you can see there is space below the image to the right where it sticks out a bit too. http://method.com.au/test.html I have changed the doctype to HTML 4.0, I have made the image inline, position:relative, but nothing I can do seems to work. Any ideas? The 1 pixel gap does go away when the scrollbar apears on the browser window, so when there is enough content to go below the fold. Thanks Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] 1 pixel gap
Thanks Alex, I feel a bit daft for not noticing that myself :) It seems though, that even though this has fixed that, the problem is now occuring the other way; So when there is NO content, it displays fine and when there IS content going below the fold, it shows the 1px gap on the right now. It seems to be to do with the center alignment I think, but I can't figure out why. Any ideas? Thanks for your help On 19/06/07, Alex James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just got a 1 pixel gap at the left of my image here that is baffling me. http://method.com.au/test.html Try reducing 'bgMain.gif' to 709px Thanks, Al *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] 1 pixel gap
Sorry, there seems to be some inconsistencies now, the version on my localhost is showing the problem I just sent, yet when I put it live it doesn't occur. Both versions are using the same CSS and HTML... Anyone seen a problem like that before? It's just static HTML, so I'm guessing it wouldn't be a server thing? Cheers On 19/06/07, Paul Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thanks Alex, I feel a bit daft for not noticing that myself :) It seems though, that even though this has fixed that, the problem is now occuring the other way; So when there is NO content, it displays fine and when there IS content going below the fold, it shows the 1px gap on the right now. It seems to be to do with the center alignment I think, but I can't figure out why. Any ideas? Thanks for your help On 19/06/07, Alex James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Just got a 1 pixel gap at the left of my image here that is baffling > me. http://method.com.au/test.html > > Try reducing 'bgMain.gif' to 709px > > Thanks, > Al > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] 1 pixel gap
Umm, Forget my last post, I hadn't uploaded the image. Doh! It appears the problem is that the background image width isn't an even number, causing the alignment to change when the scrolling occurs, as it can't find exactly 50%, so it adds an extra pixel Thanks for your help. Paul On 19/06/07, Paul Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sorry, there seems to be some inconsistencies now, the version on my localhost is showing the problem I just sent, yet when I put it live it doesn't occur. Both versions are using the same CSS and HTML... Anyone seen a problem like that before? It's just static HTML, so I'm guessing it wouldn't be a server thing? Cheers On 19/06/07, Paul Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks Alex, I feel a bit daft for not noticing that myself :) > > It seems though, that even though this has fixed that, the problem is > now occuring the other way; So when there is NO content, it displays > fine and when there IS content going below the fold, it shows the 1px > gap on the right now. > > It seems to be to do with the center alignment I think, but I can't > figure out why. > > Any ideas? > Thanks for your help > > On 19/06/07, Alex James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Just got a 1 pixel gap at the left of my image here that is baffling > > me. http://method.com.au/test.html > > > > Try reducing 'bgMain.gif' to 709px > > > > Thanks, > > Al > > > > > > *** > > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > *** > > > > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Safari 2.0?!
Hello all, I downloaded the beta for Safari 3 the other day, it looks nice. Unfortunately, someone has pointed out a problem with a site I'm building and they are using version 2.0. I can't replicate the problem in the new version!! So after searching Evolt and a few other places, I can't find the original version now! They only have version 1 on offer. Does anyone know how I can get back to version 2 - the current version?! PS - on OS X, of course. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Safari 2.0?!
great, done. I usually throw those things away :) Cheers for that. On 19/06/07, Nick Fitzsimons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 19 Jun 2007, at 20:39:44, Paul Collins wrote: > I downloaded the beta for Safari 3 the other day, it looks nice. > Unfortunately, someone has pointed out a problem with a site I'm > building and they are using version 2.0. I can't replicate the problem > in the new version!! > > So after searching Evolt and a few other places, I can't find the > original version now! They only have version 1 on offer. Does anyone > know how I can get back to version 2 - the current version?! > > PS - on OS X, of course. The beta download comes with an uninstall package to roll you back to your previous version of Safari. It's on the Safari3Beta.dmg you originally installed from. Regards, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Javascript problem
Hi all,
I hope this is on topic, please ignore it if not, I have a small
Jscript problem that shouldn't be hard to sort out, but I am not great
with these things...
I have a script that adds colours to a all the columns in a table. It
works fine, the only problem is, it is trying to apply the code to all
pages, when the table is only on a couple. So when I am viewing all
other pages, it comes up with this error:
document.getElementById(tableID) has no properties
So, what I would like to do, is add a checker to the script to see if
the table actually exists before doing the rest of the code.
Unfortunately, I am a novice to this and I've been stuffing around for
a while and can't get it to work.
Here is the teh script, it is worth mentioning that this is the only
table on the site, so that may help with the re-working of the code,
although it would be nice to have a checker that looks for the
specific table id.
Thanks in advance:
// script to add alternating table background colours
var colors=["#E5D9DB","#C5D3D8","#DBCBBE","#E9DBC7","#D4E0E0","#C5CEC7"];
function alternateRows(tableID,numberOfColors,colorArray){
var
trs=document.getElementById(tableID).getElementsByTagName("TD");
len=trs.length;
var myColors=colorArray.slice(0,numberOfColors);
while(len--){
trs[len].style.backgroundColor=colors[len%myColors.length];
}
}
// add onload event
addLoadEvent(function() {
alternateRows("caseStudiesTable",6,colors);
}
);
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Re: [WSG] Javascript problem
Thanks for your replies everyone, much appreciated. All working well now.
Cheers
Paul
On 21/06/07, Thierry Koblentz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Behalf Of Paul Collins
> I have a script that adds colours to a all the columns in a table. It
> works fine, the only problem is, it is trying to apply the code to all
> pages, when the table is only on a couple. So when I am viewing all
> other pages, it comes up with this error:
>
> document.getElementById(tableID) has no properties
>
> So, what I would like to do, is add a checker to the script to see if
> the table actually exists before doing the rest of the code.
> Unfortunately, I am a novice to this and I've been stuffing around for
> a while and can't get it to work.
>
> Here is the teh script, it is worth mentioning that this is the only
> table on the site, so that may help with the re-working of the code,
> although it would be nice to have a checker that looks for the
> specific table id.
>
> Thanks in advance:
>
> // script to add alternating table background colours
> var
> colors=["#E5D9DB","#C5D3D8","#DBCBBE","#E9DBC7","#D4E0E0","#C5CEC7"];
> function alternateRows(tableID,numberOfColors,colorArray){
> var
> trs=document.getElementById(tableID).getElementsByTagName("TD");
> len=trs.length;
> var myColors=colorArray.slice(0,numberOfColors);
> while(len--){
>
> trs[len].style.backgroundColor=colors[len%myColors.length];
> }
> }
>
> // add onload event
> addLoadEvent(function() {
> alternateRows("caseStudiesTable",6,colors);
> }
> );
Try this:
addLoadEvent(function() {
if(document.getElementById("caseStudiesTable"))
alternateRows("caseStudiesTable",6,colors);
}
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] IE7 zoom collapses horizontal tab navigation
Hi Matt, That seems to work fine in my version of IE7; the text doesn't break away from the background images when I zoom. I'm on windows XP... Cheers On 22/06/07, Miles Tillinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This is a centered tab menu based on Alistapart's Sliding Doors concept. The IE7 zoom tool is making the anchor text in the tabs 'collapse' away from the tab background images. See example: http://www.streetdaddy.com/temp/ce/ It only happens when the li is display: block (needed to center the ul). Its fine if the li's are floated. I can't seem to find a fix for the problem, but it must be out there... anyone? Cheers, Miles. IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of * education.au limited* except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. *education.au limited* will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Paul Gibson is out of the office. [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
I will be out of the office starting 26/06/2007 and will not return until 28/06/2007. I will respond to your message when I return. Contact my mobile if urgent. Important Notice: If you have received this email by mistake, please advise the sender and delete the message and attachments immediately. This email, including attachments, may contain confidential, sensitive, legally privileged and/or copyright information. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. DIAC respects your privacy and has obligations under the Privacy Act 1988. The official departmental privacy policy can be viewed on the department's website at www.immi.gov.au See: http://www.immi.gov.au/functional/privacy.htm *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Triggering POSTs with links?
At 6/20/2007 07:52 AM, Richard Ishida wrote:
I put together a box that expands to accommodate larger text in
translation, but I forgot that text on a submit button doesn't wrap :O
Original:
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-css-charset.en.php#endlinks
(see the box to the right)
First problematic translation:
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-css-charset.fr.php#endlinks
I want the text "Send us a comment" to look like a link, but trigger
a POST, so I put the text in a submit button and styled it.
Unfortunately the longer translations won't wrap that way.
Richard,
Another method is to create a transparent button image and place it
on top of the text (i.e. in a layer between the text and the viewer),
something like this:
Envoyez-nous un commentaire
name="sendcomment" />
/* make all three elements the same size & resizable */
div,
div p,
div input
{
font-size: 1em;
width: 10em;
height: 3em;
}
/* the div constrains the text & button */
div
{
position: relative;
}
/* superimpose the text & button within the div */
div p,
div input
{
position: absolute;
top: 0;
left: 0;
margin: 0;
}
http://juniperwebcraft.com/test/transparent-button.html
Warm regards,
Paul
__
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Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com
+1-250-355-2541
skype juniperpaul
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RE: [WSG] Content not appearing in IE
Peekaboo bug? http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/peekaboo.html Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Font-size 62.5% problem
Hi all,
I seem to be having trouble assigning the font-size:62.5%; property to
the body of my document. Basically, it doesn't seem to be working and
I can't figure out why. The font stays slightly larger than 11px, when
I set it to 1.1em. this has worked fine on other sites, so not sure
why it isn't working here. Any ideas?
Here is the CSS:
/* BODY STYLES */
body {margin:0; padding:0; color:#FFF; font-size:62.5%; background:#EAE7E7;}
* {font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;}
#leftPanel {width:204px; float:left; font-size:1.1em;}
/* CONTENT */
#content {width:543px; w\idth:503px; font-size:1.2em; float:left;
text-align:left; padding:0 23px 30px 17px;}
Here is the HTML
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd";>
http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml";>
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Re: [WSG] Font-size 62.5% problem
Thanks for your replies everyone. My target would be Firefox, Safari, IE, Opera. This seems to have worked in the past on those browsers. It has worked fine for me in the past. Kepler, I tried adding it inline to the body tag, still can't get it to work. Tony, I tried getting rid of the minimum font-size in firefox and still no result! Can't for the life of me figure this out! Cheers On 02/07/07, Nick Gleitzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 2 Jul 2007, at 3:10 PM, Felix Miata wrote: > Paul Collins apparently typed: > >> I seem to be having trouble assigning the font-size:62.5% > > Please note that... Toldja. N ___ omnivision. websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Re: video
Flash: (google video, youtube, yahoo video, revver, dailymotion, etc etc) http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_1/ http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_2/ http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_3/ Yes, you can get (pretty) good quality flash video at a low file size Quicktime gives good quality (at a larger file size) but just isn't as ubiquitous as flash... My 2c anyway *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Who's A "Front End" Developer?
The datastore/backend guys will just make sure the data is in a nice format (JSON or something) and that its accessible from a url - their job is done my friends. Ouch. For me this points up the absurdity of the demarcation between front-end and back-end developer. Unless each of us understands the whole sweep of it we're going to make stupid mistakes that will make everyone else in our team miserable. Spare me, please, from working with someone who believes that their job is done at the boundary of any particular technology or technique. In my experience everything in this field is too interconnected for that kind of separation to work. It drives me crazy when graphic designers hand me one Photoshop mockup per page and figure that their job of "designing the site" is done. To do a decent job, a web graphic designer needs to understand CSS which requires familiarity with HTML markup and browser technology, and it helps hugely if they understand the economies of scripting, the logic of database queries, and the fundamentals of many other technologies that superficially have nothing to do with graphic design. Just as a good print designer needs to understand papers, inks, and printing technologies, a web graphic designer needs to know the stuff that the page is made of in order to make competent decisions. Looking at it from the back end, there are convoluted handshakes between MySQL and PHP and HTML and JavaScript and CSS, and bingo you're doing graphic design. Even if we don't do all the work ourselves we have to maintain a healthy appreciation for the limits, requirements, and efficiencies of all the technologies in the daisy chain if we're going to produce really great work. Of course there's a difference between 'having an understanding' of a technology and actually practicing it. I'm familiar with many of the capabilities of Photoshop, for example, even while I acknowledge that I'm a novice user and pass the fine work along to my partner the graphics expert. But when I'm engineering the "back" end of a project my consciousness has to extend all the way to the very "front" or we'll end up with something that's lame at best, broken at worst, a disappointment to the client, and expensive to fix. I appreciate the efforts of the folks in the Netherlands to come up with some standards of expertise by which they can judge a worker's competence, but the front-end/back-end model that's driven this discussion waves warning flags for me. I think it's a potentially harmful paradigm if formalized into job categories with impermeable boundaries. Did anyone but me read A.E. van Vogt's Voyage of the Space Beagle as a kid? Specialists are handy appliances, but give me a nexialist any day if you want a brilliant solution. Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Select that goes to a new URL
Hi all, This should be pretty basic stuff, but coding the forms can be a bit above me sometimes :) I've hunted around and can't seem to find the answer, so here goes... I've got a select box, with a bunch of options that need to go to another page in the website when the go button is clicked. I'm running this on my localhost, so not sure if the CGI scripts are all there, I am running PHP though, so it would be ideal to set it up that way. Here is my code, would appreciate any links/advice. Cheers http://localhost/includes/redirect.php"; name="selectCourse" id="selectCourseForm"> Select a course http://localhost/courses/artsAndMedia.php";>Arts & Media http://localhost/courses/businessAndPublicServices.php";>Business & Public Services http://localhost/courses/careTravelAndTourism.php";>Care Travel & Tourism ESOL & Languages Hair, Beauty & Sport Humanities & English ICT & Maths Performing Arts & Media Skills for life Science I've tried it with this redirect PHP script, but doesn't seem to work: *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL
Thanks for your help guys, makes more sense. It still isn't working though, so I'll go find another forum to post to about PHP. Cheers Paul On 10/07/07, Ross Bruniges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: you should use $_POST['New_URL'] - thats going to be the value of the select box. Looking at your code there is nothing called ID on there! and also - PHP is really off topic of this list, not sure of any PHP mailers but the sitepoint forums always get me out of bother! - Original Message From: Paul Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "wsg@webstandardsgroup.org" Sent: Tuesday, 10 July, 2007 3:57:58 PM Subject: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL Hi all, This should be pretty basic stuff, but coding the forms can be a bit above me sometimes :) I've hunted around and can't seem to find the answer, so here goes... I've got a select box, with a bunch of options that need to go to another page in the website when the go button is clicked. I'm running this on my localhost, so not sure if the CGI scripts are all there, I am running PHP though, so it would be ideal to set it up that way. Here is my code, would appreciate any links/advice. Cheers http://localhost/includes/redirect.php";; name="selectCourse" id="selectCourseForm"> Select a course http://localhost/courses/artsAndMedia.php";>Arts & Media http://localhost/courses/businessAndPublicServices.php";>Business & Public Services http://localhost/courses/careTravelAndTourism.php";>Care Travel & Tourism ESOL & Languages Hair, Beauty & Sport Humanities & English ICT & Maths Performing Arts & Media Skills for life Science I've tried it with this redirect PHP script, but doesn't seem to work: *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ___ What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL
Genius, that's solved it, thanks Andrew! No-one had replied to me on Sitepoint yet... In answer to your question, the client has added it as a measure to save valuable space on the left hand Nav. There could be more courses getting added too, so I guess I can see their point in some ways, as long as I can make it accessible I'm not too fazed. Thanks again for your help Paul On 10/07/07, Andrew Maben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Jul 10, 2007, at 12:20 PM, Paul Collins wrote: http://localhost/includes/redirect.php";; name="selectCourse" id="selectCourseForm"> Should be : method="post" NOT action="post" But I have to wonder why the need to use this method to form a purely navigational function..? Unless you're collecting other data within the form before the redirect? Andrew 109B SE 4th Av Gainesville FL 32601 Cell: 352-870-6661 http://www.andrewmaben.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] "In a well designed user interface, the user should not need instructions." *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits
Funny you should send that one Kevin, I am literally just scoping around for a similar solution to the site I have just built. I was recommended these two aparrently free CMS solutions by another client. http://www.dotnetnuke.com/ http://www.cmsmadesimple.org/ I am only just taking a look now so not sure how standards compliant they are. The last site I built used a combination of Contribute and Wordpress, not so pretty and kind of limiting. Depends on what they want to update and the type of content I guess. I would like to hear of any other free open source CMS solutions there are out there? preferably one using PHP, but open to suggestions. Cheers Paul On 10/07/07, Kevin Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I find it very disappointing that very few clients really appreciate the amount of hard work that goes into designing and building a site (in my experience). This particular client wants to save a few bucks by maintaining the site herself. She doesn't seem to realize that her time is valuable as well and better used when devoted to her strengths. I think most of us know that we need to call a plumber or electrician as they are "experts" in their fields, and rightly so. Nuff said... Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Regards, Kevin. On 7/10/07, Matthew Ohlman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Kevin Ross wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my > > client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client > > requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been > > charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new > > client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). > > She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way > > around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to "pass the torch" over > > to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little > > task for someone who does not design web sites. > > > > I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering > > how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been > > implemented. > > > > I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution > > to a situation like this. > > > > Thanks. > > Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for a > local organization and it was a beauty...since I no longer had the time > to devote to updating I turned it over to a so called 'web designer' in > the community (at the recommendation of the executive director). Sadly, > he has basically ruined my site because he has no idea what he is doing > and has no concept of web standards--or style for that matter. > > It is a real shame that so many people charge for and design web sites > that don't follow any sort of standards. > > > Matthew > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] RE: WSG Digest
Thanks Greg, just taking a look at WebGUI, looks really good. On 11/07/07, Greg Hacke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I would avoid CMSMadeSimple It's not a bad CMS but _everything_ is after-market and it is very difficult to maintain as standards compliant. I use WebGUI (www.webgui.org) right now for CMS work. It maintains compliance quite well - although its server requirements are a bit higher. Greg Hacke Idle Hands Press :: idlehandspress.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] :: IM greghacke +1.614.388.9106 :: Skype greghacke There is no right. -Original Message- From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2007 0:19 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: WSG Digest * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. ***** From: "Paul Collins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:17:03 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits Funny you should send that one Kevin, I am literally just scoping around for a similar solution to the site I have just built. I was recommended these two aparrently free CMS solutions by another client. http://www.dotnetnuke.com/ http://www.cmsmadesimple.org/ I am only just taking a look now so not sure how standards compliant they are. The last site I built used a combination of Contribute and Wordpress, not so pretty and kind of limiting. Depends on what they want to update and the type of content I guess. I would like to hear of any other free open source CMS solutions there are out there? preferably one using PHP, but open to suggestions. Cheers Paul On 10/07/07, Kevin Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I find it very disappointing that very few clients really appreciate > the amount of hard work that goes into designing and building a site > (in my experience). This particular client wants to save a few bucks > by maintaining the site herself. She doesn't seem to realize that her > time is valuable as well and better used when devoted to her > strengths. I think most of us know that we need to call a plumber or > electrician as they are "experts" in their fields, and rightly so. Nuff said... > > Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of > a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach > me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar > with the language. Thanks. > > Regards, > Kevin. > > On 7/10/07, Matthew Ohlman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Kevin Ross wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my > > > client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the > > > client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have > > > not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I > > > have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). > > > She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her > > > way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to "pass the > > > torch" over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is > > > more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. > > > > > > I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also > > > wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial > > > design has been implemented. > > > > > > I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a > > > solution to a situation like this. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for > > a local organization and it was a beauty...since I no longer had the > > time to devote to updating I turned it over to a so called 'web > > designer' in the community (at the recommendation of the executive > > director). Sadly, he has basically ruined my site because he has no > > idea what he is doing and has no concept of web standards--or style for that matter. > > > > It is a real shame that so many people charge for and design web > > sites that don't follow any sort of standards. > > > > > > Matthew > > > > > > > > > *** > > List Guidelines: > http://webstandard
[WSG] Paul Gibson is out of the office. [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
I will be out of the office starting 12/07/2007 and will not return until 16/07/2007. I will respond to your message when I return. Contact my mobile if urgent. Important Notice: If you have received this email by mistake, please advise the sender and delete the message and attachments immediately. This email, including attachments, may contain confidential, sensitive, legally privileged and/or copyright information. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. DIAC respects your privacy and has obligations under the Privacy Act 1988. The official departmental privacy policy can be viewed on the department's website at www.immi.gov.au See: http://www.immi.gov.au/functional/privacy.htm *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Javascript image rotator
Hi all, I thought this would be an easy one to Google, but yet I find myself here again asking your professional opinions :) Trying to find a script for random image rotation on a website. Meaning the images would rotate every 5 seconds or so automatically, without the need for a refresh. The only requirements would be: - A fade effect between the rotating images. - A fall back so users without javascript will still get a single image. Any links would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator
Thanks for your reply Barney Hmm, I have seen a few examples of people using Jscript only to do it. I don't need to modify the image, just reload a new one every five seconds or so. I can find scripts to do this, just need the fade bit I guess. Apparently, I can't use Flash for this. Cheers Paul On 12/07/07, Barney Carroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: swifr offers cute image modifying effects (including rotation) using Flash, and degrades gracefully. http://www.swfir.com/ However it can't do the other things you're asking for by itself. The problem is really the image rotating - everything else could be done with lightweight javascript but actually modifying an image is a bit beyond its reach and as such that puts you in the Flash object department. Regards, Barney Paul Collins wrote: > Hi all, > > I thought this would be an easy one to Google, but yet I find myself > here again asking your professional opinions :) > > Trying to find a script for random image rotation on a website. > Meaning the images would rotate every 5 seconds or so automatically, > without the need for a refresh. The only requirements would be: > > - A fade effect between the rotating images. > - A fall back so users without javascript will still get a single image. > > Any links would be greatly appreciated. > > Cheers > Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator
Hey thanks for your help Ed, Got that working now, all looks good. Does work with Javascript turned off, but only if you put the original image in a NOSCRIPT tag. Certainly works well, so thanks for all your help. I found the original here BTW: http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex14/fadeinslideshow.htm Thanks again Paul On 12/07/07, Web Man Walking <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I did one for a client of mine. Feel free to take a look... http://thepaperchain.co.uk/ Not sure where I found the code but it is excellent and without JS on, it shows an image. !*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*! Chris & Ed successfully ran the 2007 Edinburgh Marathon for the Meningitis Research Foundation We are still looking for sponsors! Our Progress: http://wmwmarathon.com/ Sponsor Us: http://justgiving.com/wmwmarathon !*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*! Regards Ed Henderson Web Man Walking - web design & usability experts t: 0131 669 8800 m: 0781 253 6964 f: 0797 062 1532 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: web-man-walking.com a: 48 Eastfield, Edinburgh, EH15 2PN skype: webmanwalking msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] "New technology, old fashioned service" -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Collins Sent: 12 July 2007 12:45 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Javascript image rotator Hi all, I thought this would be an easy one to Google, but yet I find myself here again asking your professional opinions :) Trying to find a script for random image rotation on a website. Meaning the images would rotate every 5 seconds or so automatically, without the need for a refresh. The only requirements would be: - A fade effect between the rotating images. - A fall back so users without javascript will still get a single image. Any links would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator
> I guess I thought the original poster wanted something more for a simple > banner vs an actual gallery script. You're right. I didn't go back far enough in the thread. Sorry. You are all right, thanks for your replies everyone. Sorry, I've been away from the machine for a few days, but I did get it sorted before I left. Thanks again. Paul On 13/07/07, Al Sparber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: "Micky Hulse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I guess I thought the original poster wanted something more for a simple > banner vs an actual gallery script. You're right. I didn't go back far enough in the thread. Sorry. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] To target or not
I think adding a css class that displays an icon that quite obviously denotes that the link will open a new window has been banded around for awhile now. I know that I have used it in the past, but must admit on this particular subject to, depending on the project's needs, use transitional doctype and target blank anyway or utilize a javascript. Interesting to see what this brings out from others! Paul Tutty http://www.codethirteen.com Part-time Freelancer, full time helicopter pilot. On 19/07/07, Joyce Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I always thought it was a good idea to open links to other websites in a separate window, so you don't lose the visitor. If the visitor clicks on a link on your website and it does not open into a separate window, the visitor may stay in the other website for awhile, going to, say, 20 different pages. Most likely, he's not going to click on the back button 20 times to get back to your website, so you've lost the visitor or potential customer. If the link opens up into a separate window, the visitor cannot click on the back button, so he'll need to click on the exit (X) button, and voila, he's back in your website, where you want him to be. Joyce Evans Niche Marketing www.nichemktghouston.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Ohlman Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:21 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] To target or not Hello List, I was curious what others opinions were on this issue... Since W3C doesn't allow the target attribute in XHTML Strict, which do you think is better? Having the window opening up with JavaScript or just keeping the page in the same window like W3C wants. I assume the reason for not allowing the target attribute is for accessibility--because screen readers can not control pop-ups. Therefore it seems logical to me to keep it in the same window--even if it is an external site, etc. What does everyone think? Matthew -- Matthew Ohlman www.ohlman.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
I, for one am enjoying this discussion :) My 2c: 1) Let the user know it's a PDF *and* what size the PDF is, eg by putting something like (12Kb PDF) beside the link. I'm on dial up at home and it grates my backside when sites don't let me know how big the file is 2) If you can, use Acrobat Pro to autotag your PDF's. It's far from perfect but it's a start 3) Never ever assume a tagged PDF is 'screen reader friendly'. A partially sighted woman gave a (fantastic) presentation at a conference I attended recently where she 'showed' a screen reader opening a PDF and also showed how Acrobat rendered the doc in ZoomText. It was absolutely illegible and the screen reader couldn't make head or tail of it. 4) Push back on your departments to change the workflow so you get raw content and (in a perfect world) time to mark it up. 5) Get a search tool that indexes the raw text of PDF content and lets you point users to the text version if they want it. Again, not perfect but better than nothing. Like most government employees, I've got a lot of work to do in this area, but it really does need to be done :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] HELP with CSS
On 28/07/07, SosCpdGMail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello Ted > > There is, somewhere, a reference or tutorial of how can we read and learn > about the structural way and css? I have look around many and many > approaches to this subject, in many and many different ways like books, > googling and sources. Its hard to pick one. Any of them always have a > catch, > and it is much more difficult if you write code from interpreted scripts > like I do. > > Thanks in advance > > Rafael > == Rafael, I personally have used Visual Quickstart Guides for many years now. They are not expensive, practical to use as a reference and also quite a good read on a plane or whenever. In the meantime, Indiana University<http://www.slis.indiana.edu/faculty/hrosenba/www/Workshops/CSS/Demo/cssstructure.html>has a pretty good write-up on css structure, jack daniels has a good tool <http://www.ilovejackdaniels.com/css/view-page-structure/> to see what's happening, blaze media has a good way<http://www.blazenewmedia.com/articles/www.cssdev.com>of filing your files so that debugging is simpler and Jennifer Madden has built a firefox extension<http://jennifermadden.com/scripts/ViewRenderedSource.html>that I've used for awhile now (and I love!) that shows the structure of your code if you right-click and view source in a preview window. Paul. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] vCard File
Hi Joyce, It looks like vCard is a standard, so I guess the user's email client would pick it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VCard HTH, Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Absolute positioning in the flow of the document?
Hi all, I've spent a while trying to figure this out and I'm not sure there is a solution. I've got two levels of navigation here; visually one sits on top of the other, but the second level will change according to what top level link you click: http://www.method.com.au/newWebsite/ So, my problem is, I initially had two seperate lists, one appearing seperately after the other. About this website How to use this website Visually, this is fine. In particular, when I enlarge the text on the page the second level will continue to push down as the square blocks from the first level start to wrap. The problem is that semantically this is not correct, the second level here is relating to the home link and therefore should be a sub-list contained in the of the home link. If you look at my example link, this is how the code appears now. My problem is, this method caused the top level nav to break as all the other blocks pushed away to the right of the second level text. This could be fixed by making the second level navigation absolute and giving a padding in EM's. The problem I am left with now is the second level is now out of the document flow, so when you go to enlarge the text the top level begins to overlap the text as the blocks begin to wrap. Sorry for the long email, but my basic question is, does anyone have another suggestion of positioning that second level nav without taking it out of the document flow? Thanks for any help! Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Absolute positioning in the flow of the document?
Sorry, yes Phillip. I haven't done PC testing at all yet, I'm on Firefox on the Mac. Wanted to decide how to code this before I get onto testing. Should have mentioned that! Cheers On 02/08/07, Philip Kiff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Paul Collins wrote: > > I've spent a while trying to figure this out and I'm not sure there is > > a solution. I've got two levels of navigation here; visually one sits > > on top of the other, but the second level will change according to > > what top level link you click: > > http://www.method.com.au/newWebsite/ > > Probably you are just in the middle of making changes or something, but the > nav menu doesn't't seem to show up at all on my Internet Explorer version 7 > or version 6? > > It does show up correctly on Opera and Firefox. > > Phil. > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Absolute positioning in the flow of the document?
Thanks Gunlag I think you are right about semantics there. I don't have to have it as a Sub-nav I guess. I will see how much trouble I have getting this to work in IE; if it doesn't work I will definitely put it back to the way you have suggested. I'm not terrible happy about using absolute positioning in this site. Thanks for taking the time to reply, much appreciated. Paul On 02/08/07, Gunlaug Sørtun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Paul Collins wrote: > > > http://www.method.com.au/newWebsite/ > > > > ... The problem is that semantically this is not correct, the second > > level here is relating to the home link and therefore should be a > > sub-list contained in the of the home link. If you look at my > > example link, this is how the code appears now. > > I think you've got your semantics wrong by over-complicating those > relations, and thereby creating an (almost) unsolvable design problem. > You can of course let your semantic reasoning control the entire design > - change its appearance until it works, but I don't think you want that. > > IMO: the second-level list doesn't/shouldn't relate to a particular > list-item in the first-level list. Instead it does/should relate to the > relevant _page_ itself. The links in the second-level list branches out > to connect other pages (or sections or whatever) to that particular _page_. > > This means that it doesn't really matter, semantically, where on the > page the second-level list is, as it has no relations to any particular > element on the page. The relevant second-level list just has to be on > the relevant page. > > The fact that you want the second-level list to appear under the > first-level list, is perfectly understandable and reasonable - and a > good design-choice, IMO. > You should then keep the second-level list separate, in the flow below > the first-level one, and not complicate things any further. Your design > is fine, and it can take whatever when you get the order right - again. > > After all: semantics works best when it actually works in the real > world. Otherwise it doesn't really make sense, IMHO :-) > > regards > Georg > -- > http://www.gunlaug.no > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] When to use image replacements?
Hi Lee, I think Image replacement is probably best to use if you are developing for Mobiles; as these are becoming more relevant. You don't want people to have to scroll past 10 navigation images in their mobile browser everytime the page loads. The logo should be a graphic as you want people to see it in a mobile browser. > Images with relevant copy > For example, if you visit Panic's website here: http://www.panic.com/ > coda/ > and go to the books tab, there is a picture of a book with some > relevant copy a user would find interesting. Again would this be a > candidate for image replacement? I think these would be a normal candidate for IR, as the icons will take a long time to load in a Mobile Browser, plus you'll need to scroll past them every time. Better to just have a text link. However, these are all apps that wouldn't work on a mobile anyway, so not sure how relevant it would be in this case! As far as print goes, I would imagine as a guess you want to take things like navigation and buttons out of the page you are printing anyway and just show the "body" content of that page. I am sure this wouldn't apply to all cases of course. There is of course sIFR if you want your graphic titles to be enlarge-able as well, if you aren't aware already. Cheers On 06/08/07, Kit Grose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The biggest issue I see with image replacement (which I, too, use > ridiculously often) is with printing. > > Most browsers remove background images from printing, and since image > replacement usually makes extensive use of background images, the > print will usually only list the text (which clients tend to dislike). > > This has got one specific benefit, though: if your logo is usually > set reversed (white on dark), you're not left printing a badly anti- > aliased, low-resolution white image on white paper. > > So my advice is to use image replacement for navigation, buttons, > etc., but not for logos or images that you require to be able to be > printed by a grandmother. > > Cheers, > > Kit Grose > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Lower portion of lower case "y" does not appear in h1 in IE7
At 8/10/2007 05:01 PM, Joyce Evans wrote: When I view the following link (which Im working on) in IE7, the lower portion of the y in the word Physician does not appear. I see the entire y in IE 6 and FF 2 but not in IE7. This text is sitting within an h1 tag within a #title tag. Does anyone have an idea why I cant see the lower portion of y? http://www.nichemktghouston.com/mneiman/physician.html Also, in the content div, I have a background image bg_content.jpg that has graphics to the left and to the right, and the center is simply white. I have been told in the past that this type of background image is not a good idea meaning the white portion, but how could I get the left and the right graphics to appear and repeat as more content is added, without including the white portion of the graphic? Joyce, The problem of IE7 cropping off the font descenders is fascinating and I look forward to reading an explanation. Perhaps if you posted the problem to the CSS-D list you'd get an answer to that from the likes of Ingo Chao et al. Part of the overall problem you're having with this page is that the background image is just 35px tall so it can't accommodate text enlargement. The image includes its own top & side borders so it can't be repeated vertically or horizontally as the text expands: http://www.nichemktghouston.com/mneiman/images/bg_title.jpg You tried to suppress this problem by sizing the font in pixels, but of course that succeeds only in IE. In other browsers the font enlarges out of its container and becomes not just ugly but also a nearly unreadable white on pale grey. Two simple ways to change this situation are a) to make the background image much taller so that more of it will be revealed as the headline increases in size and b) to split the background image into two components: the unrepeatable top borders and the repeatable orange body. Taking a step back, however, I don't see the need for a background image at all. The background imagery consists entirely of rectlinear monochrome spaces and lines that can be reproduced exactly with background colors and borders. The only complication in reproducing your page precisely this way is that adjacent CSS borders meet on a diagonal at the corner of a box and your top grey border butts flat on top of the gray side borders. This detail can be sacrificed for easy layout or reproduced exactly by using an extra nested div. Your nav menu as rendered is another sticky wicket, with the light & dark grey pill shapes. Again you've created a fixed-height background that's inadequate to contain enlargeable text. An easy way to start solving this is to make that background image quite tall with a light grey body and the dark grey curves only at the bottom, and position the background image in the bottom of its container. It doesn't solve your menu's other problem which is that as the text enlarges the menu spills horizontally out of the page block. Allowing the menu items to wrap around within your fixed-width column will keep the menu on-screen while the font enlarges but you'll need to re-think its background image. One possibility is to use a segment of the light & dark grey background for each nav menu LI so that each menu item maintains its grey blobby background even as it wraps. This would almost certainly require you to re-visualize the menu's graphic design to keep it looking good as text enlarges. Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Imageready CS3
Is it bothering anyone else out there that they've removed Imageready in CS3? I've tried to use Fireworks and it just isn't the same... Anyway, I found this petition online, quite short of signatures so far, but I guess no-one is really putting it out there and it's only been up a month. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/imageready-cs3/ (to see the signatures, click the "signatures" link at the top. You don't have to donate, don't click that link...) So, if it bothers you as well, sign the petition, help start the revolution :) I hope this is on topic, isn't it?! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Cross platform line-height?
Hi all, Just wondering if anyone here has ever found a way of achieving a consistent line-height for Windows and OS X? Been searching for a while and can't seem to find the answer... Can it be done? Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Cross platform line-height?
Sorry, I meant to say: > Any idea how I can get them to be exactly the same height? Using CSS or something simple :) On 17/08/07, Paul Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Phillipe, > > Thanks for your reply. I've been given a design that has a box with > specified height containing Web Text. It's CMS too :) > > I've told the client many times that in the design the height should > be expandable, but they have refused to change, so the end solution is > offering a word count for content added in the CMS. > > So, I've built it, but the line-height of the text is larger in all > Windows Browsers compared to OS X. I've set a fixed line-height in my > stylesheet, but Windows will still display a larger line-height than > OS X. > > Any idea how I can get them to be exactly the same height? > > Cheers > Paul > > On 17/08/07, Philippe Wittenbergh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Aug 17, 2007, at 10:07 PM, Paul Collins wrote: > > > > > Just wondering if anyone here has ever found a way of achieving a > > > consistent line-height for Windows and OS X? Been searching for a > > > while and can't seem to find the answer... > > > > For a given font[size][face] you'll get consistent results using > > (e.g. 1.5) across a wide range of UA's that support the css > > 1 and css 2.1 font-properties. > > Consistent doesn't mean that all UA's on all platforms will display a > > line-box at exactly the same pixel size. Different platforms have > > different (raw) font-metrics, different UA's use different methods > > for rounding off numbers, etc. > > > > What exactly is your problem ? > > > > Philippe > > --- > > Philippe Wittenbergh > > <http://emps.l-c-n.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > *** > > > > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Cross platform line-height?
Hi Phillipe, Thanks for your reply. I've been given a design that has a box with specified height containing Web Text. It's CMS too :) I've told the client many times that in the design the height should be expandable, but they have refused to change, so the end solution is offering a word count for content added in the CMS. So, I've built it, but the line-height of the text is larger in all Windows Browsers compared to OS X. I've set a fixed line-height in my stylesheet, but Windows will still display a larger line-height than OS X. Any idea how I can get them to be exactly the same height? Cheers Paul On 17/08/07, Philippe Wittenbergh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Aug 17, 2007, at 10:07 PM, Paul Collins wrote: > > > Just wondering if anyone here has ever found a way of achieving a > > consistent line-height for Windows and OS X? Been searching for a > > while and can't seem to find the answer... > > For a given font[size][face] you'll get consistent results using > (e.g. 1.5) across a wide range of UA's that support the css > 1 and css 2.1 font-properties. > Consistent doesn't mean that all UA's on all platforms will display a > line-box at exactly the same pixel size. Different platforms have > different (raw) font-metrics, different UA's use different methods > for rounding off numbers, etc. > > What exactly is your problem ? > > Philippe > --- > Philippe Wittenbergh > <http://emps.l-c-n.com> > > > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Using XLST to define microformats
Hi all, my first post, so: I'm Paul Minty, I do the IA, project management, some front-end development and even a little copywriting for a small web design and development studio in Melbourne. Does anyone know of an effort to define micro-formats using an XML name space and an XLST? I think that approach would be a great way to achieve some semantic mark-up using the existing XHTML namespace. It's how I prefer to process large amounts of data when we produce a larger web-site and I think it is a technique that could be applied in a more general way. thanks Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design & create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Standards friendly 'page tagging' web stats
Hey all, I'm investigating improving our current method of reporting our web traffic - we currently use server logs only (with an annual community survey for good measure). I'm looking for a Javascript "page-tagging" solution, that is unobtrusive (keeping in line with our current progressive enhancement paradigm), standards compliant, reliable/error free (ie. Supported across multiple browsers). We've spent a considerable amount of time building a standards compliant, accessible website that degrades nicely on older browsers and less tech savvy clients, so I'm not keen on implementing a solution that's going to brain all of our hard work. Can anyone make any suggests... off-list if this isn't the right forum for this thread. Best Regards, Paul Hempsall Web Developer Lake Macquarie City Council Phone: (02) 4921-0713 Fax: (02) 4921-0566 Web: http://www.lakemac.com.au This information is intended for the addressee only. The use, copying or distribution of this message or any information it contains, by anyone other than the addressee is prohibited by the sender. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Council. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Standards friendly 'page tagging' web stats
Paul, We use Google Analytics in-house and it is a good addition to log file analysis. 'Mint' is another tagging-based stats package that should be OK on a standards-based website http://haveamint.com/ You do get a lot more info on browsers and viewport size throygh the tagging stats approach. Also, Google tells you a lot about pathways through the website that most log-analysis stats packages would charge you a lot of money for. Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design & create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Hempsall Sent: Monday, 27 August 2007 11:16 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Standards friendly 'page tagging' web stats I'm looking for a Javascript "page-tagging" solution, that is unobtrusive (keeping in line with our current progressive enhancement paradigm), standards compliant, reliable/error free (ie. Supported across multiple browsers). Paul Hempsall Web Developer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Using XLST to define microformats
Jason,
good feedback. For that kind of case I would define an XML namespace
that is specific for your project; process the client's data according
to that model; then transform the XML namespace into XHTML during the
front-end development and content production phase of the project. I
agree with you that I haven't come across a lot of mico-formats that are
suitable for a specific project, unless it is an address, an event, a
news article or a product.
Breton has given me some good sources to chase up from the micro-format
world.
thanks
Paul
Paul Minty Director
mintleaf studio
We design & create stylish websites
Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000
Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne
T. 03 9662 9344
F. 03 9662 9255
M. 0418 307 475
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.mintleafstudio.com.au
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Jason Grant
Sent: Monday, 27 August 2007 11:01 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Using XLST to define microformats
Hi Paul,
Good question.
I am working currently on tesco.com and this is one of the ongoing
debates we have, inside W3C as well, as XSLT is used all over the place
and we are trying to achieve maximum accessibility and so on.
I am not aware that something 'standardised' exists on this matter as
yet, and would be surprised if it did yet, as the current state of play
on this matter seems to be very non-standardised. Only the other day I
wanted to do an events listing module and fried my brain in the various
(mostly kind of useless) microformats and feed formats for events
information (I came to conclusion that using something of my own is
probably the best at this point, but obviously stops short of advantages
of using microformats and standards, etc.).
So if you come across something at least semi-standardised on this
matter, please do message us if you are able to do so. It would be very
much appreciated.
Kind regards,
Jason
www.flexewebs.com
On 8/27/07, Paul Minty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi all,
my first post, so: I'm Paul Minty, I do the IA, project
management, some front-end development and even a little copywriting for
a small web design and development studio in Melbourne.
Does anyone know of an effort to define micro-formats using an
XML name space and an XLST? I think that approach would be a great way
to achieve some semantic mark-up using the existing XHTML namespace.
It's how I prefer to process large amounts of data when we produce a
larger web-site and I think it is a technique that could be applied in a
more general way.
thanks
Paul
Paul Minty Director
mint leaf studio
We design & create stylish websites
Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000
Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne
T. 03 9662 9344
F. 03 9662 9255
M. 0418 307 475
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.mintleafstudio.com.au
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RE: [WSG] Standards friendly 'page tagging' web stats
Thanks for the responses and suggestions. I haven't checked out Google Analytics yet, although it was on my list. In fact I'm heading down to Sydney in Sept for some training on it's use and how to best implement it. Patrick, reports based on server log files are considerably limiting. For example, visitors are generally identified by IP and Session ID. This doesn't tell me if the person is a repeat customer, or how often they frequent the website, and also provides more accurate filtering of non-human user agents (as UAs don't tend to render the HTML or executive the JS). The data collected is particularly useful for measuring the use of "back" and "forward" button usage, monitoring the effectiveness of campaigns, conversion rates, abandonment rates/locations, etc. Just wanted to make sure I didn't break the site by implementing this. Paul Hempsall Web Developer Lake Macquarie City Council Phone: (02) 4921-0713 Fax: (02) 4921-0566 Web: http://www.lakemac.com.au This information is intended for the addressee only. The use, copying or distribution of this message or any information it contains, by anyone other than the addressee is prohibited by the sender. Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Council. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] will Eric Meyers CSS SCULPTOR put me out of job?
Tee, My understanding is that the tools being rolled out now are intended to streamline the production of basic layouts. We've used the Yahoo UI library to do that for a while; simple to be competitive on pricing. I know the bigger studios spend a lot of time developing pixel-perfect designs, usually on an elastic layout. We don't often attract the projects and budgets that would justify that level of quality. There has been a couple of years where quite basic page layouts have needed a lot of hours from experienced CSS developers to produce - I reckon those years are over and advanced CSS skills won't be used as often in smaller production teams. There will continue to be a place for highly skilled and experienced front-end developers in the bigger studios. This is a shift in the economics of website production; so yeah, have another think about career path. Remember, these days any designer can create a complex PDF file that can printed straight away - no need for the old technical skills to do colour separations and prepare printing plates! Complex and repetitive work will always be under pressure from engineering solutions. Fashionable design will always be under pressure from younger and cooler designers. I'm gonna get shares in Adobe and RMIT! Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design & create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tee G. Peng Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2007 10:16 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] will Eric Meyers CSS SCULPTOR put me out of job? Please don't be misguided by the subject :) http://www.webassist.com/professional/products/productdetails.asp? PID=135&RID=930 I am just curious, what you do guys think of the dreamweaver extension like this one and the PVll CSS layout Magic, and the Google Blueprint ? Can they take over the carefully crafted CSS and structural markup you deliver to your clients? There first one even take care of IE browsers. I notice fewer people ask me to do CSS and XHTML templates lately :) tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] will Eric Meyers C SS SCULPTOR put me out of job?
You could also look at Yahoo's YUI grids & css project which is essentially doing the same thing but supported by Yahoo. http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/ I've had good experiences with it... Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] will Eric Meyers C SS SCULPTOR put me out of job?
Hi, Apart from a cursory look, no. This looks pretty straightforward. Advantages with YUI however are that: - it allows you to nest elements to create 'grids' (think easy cross browser css columns within columns) - it uses one central css file instead of different css files for each layout - you need only change an id / id's in certain elements to affect changes - not load in different stylesheets Paul (yui fanboi) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
I will be out of the office from Wednesday 3 October, returning Monday 7 October. For any urgent enquiries, please contact my mobile on 0410 475 782, or alternatively, contact Vanessa Roarty on 02 6215 1579. Thanks, Paul Bamman Finance Australian Business Number (ABN): 61 970 632 495 Finance Web Site: www.finance.gov.au IMPORTANT: This transmission is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify us immediately by telephone on 61-2-6215- and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. If responding to this email, please send to the appropriate person using the suffix .gov.au. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
> Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 4:16 PM > To: web standards group > Subject: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf > > i know that this has come up before, but would someone point me to best practices to introduce a > > > prompt to open or download a pdf or any file for that matter? > > dwain Dwain, Funnily enough I'm working on a design pattern for this, as it doesn't seem to be documented very well in the usual design pattern collections. I'd recommend displaying with a PDF icon, the text 'PDF' and a file size (in Kb or Mb). I suggest setting the target to a new window, then the user can righ click to save. If you want to go further, I'd suggest having two links labelled 'open' and 'save'. You could put in a pop-up with the option; but I think that this would break the expected behaviour more. You could also detect the connection speed and suggest a download time; but this may not give you much ROI. It's always good to have an HTML version of the content; but you've probably already thought of that. I'd be keen to know other people's thoughts; especially if you know of any design patterns for this. Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design & create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
All, They used to make it easy to find; they certainly encourage people to use it. Dwain, you've done a nice job with your development. They also encourage people to use an official icon to link to the Acrobat Reader download; which I would include if I am presenting more than 3 PDF files on a page. Thanks all for the various insights that I can include as I create a design pattern for this. I'd like to see a microformat for this, and an external javascript, so that people who author these links without the aid of server side scripting can develop this user experience easily. Anyone seen anything like that? Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design & create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Moss Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 11:46 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf They certainly don't make it easy to find - http://www.adobe.com/misc/linking.html#pdficon > Someone suggested using a PDF icon. > > Is this something you can get from adobe? > > Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Priority 2 error - Clearly identify the target of each link.
I agree with what everyone is saying, altough it is not always feasible to make the link text descriptive and sometimes makes it look "clunky" when you've added the "read more" link straight after the title, having to write "read more about..." and repeat the title again. All that aside, it is a requirement, so it must be followed. I did find Joe Clark's comments at @media interesting though. If you go to his speaker's notes and search for "Headings and links read out of context", it's worth a read and a valid point. http://joeclark.org/appearances/atmedia2007/ Anyway, until it is no longer a requirement, I'll be making my links descriptive. On 21/10/2007, russ - maxdesign <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You have given a good reason, still, I think that criteria should > > have room for flexibility (just as George has given the same reason) > > because, link texts in the articles aren't the same and the excerpt > > of the article should have given enough information for a user > > (including screen reader user) whether he wants to continue reading > > the full article. If my argument is prudent, I think validator should > > have something like > > Tee, > > I apologise if I misread your original post. > > You mentioned a "...'continue reading' link..." and then mentioned "...more > than one title attribute with 'continue reading'...". > > I assumed you were referring to the content of the link being the same for > each link - like this: > continue reading > continue reading > > However, you may have been referring to the content of the title attribute > only - like this: > Unique content > Some other content > > If this is the case, then I agree with Gunlaug - that this is much less of > an issues. The title is designed to provide additional information, and is > rarely used by assistive devices. > > As you say, Steve Faulkner has raised issues with the title attribute - even > though his original article is not online, he gives a brief summary here: > http://webstandardsgroup.org/features/steve-faulkner.cfm#seven > > "due to its present support in browsers, it can actually add to making > content less accessible." > > Guideline 13.1 states that "Link text should be meaningful enough to make > sense when read out of context." It goes on to say "In addition... content > developers may further clarify the target of a link with an informative link > title". To me, this implies that this title is not essential. It could also > be interpreted that as long as your content is meaningful and unique, you > should pass this checkpoint. Someone with a deeper understanding of this > checkpoint may be able to clarify this! > > Again, apologies for misreading and for any confusion. > Thanks > Russ > > > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Floated list items of differing heights
Hi all, I've managed to avoid doing this for while, but I'm doing a CMS job and the content in a floated group of 's is going to be differeing heights. They need to wrap onto a new line when they hit the right edge of the container, causing layout problems. I've found this article, but it doesn't work for me and seems like a lot of work. Has anyone see a better way of getting it to work? http://www.ruzee.com/blog/2007/05/align-list-items-horizontally-with-css/comment-page-1/ Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
