Re: ls() operation not permitted

[Tom Lane via X11-users]

macq via X11-users  writes:
> Thanks!
> On 9/11/20, 6:15 PM, "Jamie Kennea"  wrote:
>> Open up the “Security and Privacy” Pane in System Preferences, go to “Full 
>> Disk Access” and add /bin/bash to that list. Doesn’t matter if you don’t use 
>> bash as your shell.

Another option in the "big hammer" department is to turn off SIP [1].
I've never personally had to fool with Full Disk Access settings, which
is likely because I have to turn off SIP because it breaks basic software
testing use-cases [2].



It'd be nice if Apple paid more attention to making their security
features actually usable by power users.  Disabling SIP is not cool from
a security perspective, and neither is granting FDA on a scope as wide
as /bin/bash, because either thing basically means you're handing the
keys to the kingdom to any hacker who manages to get a toehold in your
machine.  But if you can't do what you bought the machine for without
turning off these security features, then you're stuck.

I think SIP is quite comparable to SELinux in the Linux world.  The
difference is that Red Hat spent *years* tuning the SELinux policies
to the point where you could actually enable it on production or
development machines and not have stuff fall over on a regular basis.
(I know, I was there.)  Apple's approach to SIP, on the other hand,
seems to be "what we shipped on day one is perfect, if it doesn't
work for you it's your problem".



regards, tom lane

[1] 
https://www.howtogeek.com/230424/how-to-disable-system-integrity-protection-on-a-mac-and-why-you-shouldnt/
[2] 
https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/18012hGLG6HJ9pQDkHAMYuwQKg%40sparkpost.com
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Re: ls() operation not permitted

[macq via X11-users]

Thanks!

 

On 9/11/20, 6:15 PM, "Jamie Kennea"  wrote:

 

Open up the “Security and Privacy” Pane in System Preferences, go to “Full Disk 
Access” and add /bin/bash to that list. Doesn’t matter if you don’t use bash as 
your shell.

 

Jamie

 



On Sep 11, 2020, at 5:56 PM, macq via X11-users  
wrote:

 

I’m in the process of moving to a new Mac. On the old Mac I was using MacPorts’ 
X11.app, and all was well. On the new Mac, when I’m in my home folder, I get 
this:

 

macq[20]% ls Documents/

ls: : Operation not permitted

 

But other subdirectories are ok, for example:

 

macq[24]% ls test/

./  ../ foo test.r  test.r~

 

No problem in Terminal.app.

 

I guess there’s some shell environment inheritance issue here, but I don’t know 
how to track it down. More generally, how can I regain access to my Documents 
folder?

 

 

-- note --

I’m using XQuartz.app on the new Mac, but only because the X11.app that was 
migrated to the new machine doesn’t work.

Its error message is, “X11 cannot be opened because of a problem.” and “Check 
with the developer to make sure X11 works with this version of macOS. You may 
need to reinstall the application.“ But both machines are on the same OS 
version, 10.15.6.

 

Thanks for any suggestions!

 

-Don

m...@comcast.net

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Re: ls() operation not permitted

[Jamie Kennea via X11-users]

Open up the “Security and Privacy” Pane in System Preferences, go to “Full Disk 
Access” and add /bin/bash to that list. Doesn’t matter if you don’t use bash as 
your shell.

Jamie


> On Sep 11, 2020, at 5:56 PM, macq via X11-users  
> wrote:
> 
> I’m in the process of moving to a new Mac. On the old Mac I was using 
> MacPorts’ X11.app, and all was well. On the new Mac, when I’m in my home 
> folder, I get this:
>  
> macq[20]% ls Documents/
> ls: : Operation not permitted
>  
> But other subdirectories are ok, for example:
>  
> macq[24]% ls test/
> ./  ../ foo test.r  test.r~
>  
> No problem in Terminal.app.
>  
> I guess there’s some shell environment inheritance issue here, but I don’t 
> know how to track it down. More generally, how can I regain access to my 
> Documents folder?
>  
>  
> -- note --
> I’m using XQuartz.app on the new Mac, but only because the X11.app that was 
> migrated to the new machine doesn’t work.
> Its error message is, “X11 cannot be opened because of a problem.” and “Check 
> with the developer to make sure X11 works with this version of macOS. You may 
> need to reinstall the application.“ But both machines are on the same OS 
> version, 10.15.6.
>  
> Thanks for any suggestions!
>  
> -Don
> m...@comcast.net 
> <mailto:m...@comcast.net>___
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ls() operation not permitted

[macq via X11-users]

I’m in the process of moving to a new Mac. On the old Mac I was using MacPorts’ 
X11.app, and all was well. On the new Mac, when I’m in my home folder, I get 
this:

 

macq[20]% ls Documents/

ls: : Operation not permitted

 

But other subdirectories are ok, for example:

 

macq[24]% ls test/

./  ../ foo test.r  test.r~

 

No problem in Terminal.app.

 

I guess there’s some shell environment inheritance issue here, but I don’t know 
how to track it down. More generally, how can I regain access to my Documents 
folder?

 

 

-- note --

I’m using XQuartz.app on the new Mac, but only because the X11.app that was 
migrated to the new machine doesn’t work.

Its error message is, “X11 cannot be opened because of a problem.” and “Check 
with the developer to make sure X11 works with this version of macOS. You may 
need to reinstall the application.“ But both machines are on the same OS 
version, 10.15.6.

 

Thanks for any suggestions!

 

-Don

m...@comcast.net

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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Dr. Burkhard Schmidt via X11-users]

Hello,

meanwhile the xterm problem is discussed since quite a while — it’s time to 
give an explanation:

Indeed giving Full Disk Access to /bin/bash is the correct solution. Why? Well, 
assuming the standard location for XQuartz, look at 
/Applications/Utilities/XQuartz.app/Contents/Info.plist. Under the key 
CFBundleExecutable you will find the value X11 which is 
/Applications/Utilities/XQuartz.app/Contents/MacOS/X11. The command „file 
/Applications/Utilities/XQuartz.app/Contents/MacOS/X11“ returns 
„/Applications/Utilities/XQuartz.app/Contents/MacOS/X11: Bourne-Again shell 
script text executable, ASCII text“, so X11 is actually not a binary but a 
shell script. Open it with your favourite text editor. The first line reads 
„#!/bin/bash“, so eventually /bin/bash is executed upon opening 
(double-clicking) XQuartz. All further X11 processes are child processes to it 
and inherit the Full Disk Access right.

Best regards,
Burkhard.

___
Dr. Burkhard Schmidt * <https://www.cpfs.mpg.de/~bs>
Max-Planck-Institut für chemische Physik fester Stoffe
Nöthnitzer Str. 40 * 01187 Dresden * Tel. +49 351 4646-2235

> Am 12.02.2020 um 16:24 schrieb Jamie Kennea via X11-users 
> :
> 
> I can confirm that this solution works for me also.
> 
> No idea why, as I too use tcsh as my default shell, and the default Catalina 
> shell is zsh, but whatever, I can now enter my download folder on a xterm 
> again, so great.
> 
> Jamie
> 
> 
>> On Feb 7, 2020, at 5:40 AM, Ben Kilminster via X11-users 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I found a solution that worked, which was recommended on the "macOS 
>> Catalina" forum at discussions.apple.com :  
>> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251027260?answerId=252097327022
>> 
>> The solution is to give "Full Disk Access" to /bin/bash.  [1]
>> 
>> But I don't know why it works, since I in fact use tcsh, and neither does 
>> the person who offered the solution. 
>> 
>> [1] /bin is hidden to us by OS X, so one needs to navigate to "Macintosh HD" 
>> and then type "command+shift" plus the " . " symbol to make the directory 
>> visible. 
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> Ben
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2020, at 5:10 PM, Ben Kilminster  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello, 
>>> 
>>> I'm on a Mac  (Mac Catalina 10.15.2, XQuartz 2.7.11).
>>> 
>>> The problem is using the xterm provided by XQuartz, I no longer have 
>>> permission to look in my directories :
>>> Wed 16:59 [bjk] ls ~/Documents/
>>> ls: : Operation not permitted
>>> 
>>> I found a solution recommended online, which is :
>>> 1) System Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Privacy -> "Full Disk 
>>> Access" 
>>> 2) Unlock then add "Applications/Utilities/XQuartz.app"
>>> 3) Restart everything.
>>> 
>>> However, I still get the same error.  
>>> 
>>> The other "Terminal" program still works, so this is not fatal.  
>>> But right now XQuartz is not usable for me.  Suggestions ?
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Ben
>>> 
>>> p.s. Apologies if I am posting to the wrong forum or should have found the 
>>> answer to this somewhere online. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Jamie Kennea via X11-users]

I can confirm that this solution works for me also.

No idea why, as I too use tcsh as my default shell, and the default Catalina 
shell is zsh, but whatever, I can now enter my download folder on a xterm 
again, so great.

Jamie


> On Feb 7, 2020, at 5:40 AM, Ben Kilminster via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I found a solution that worked, which was recommended on the "macOS Catalina" 
> forum at discussions.apple.com :  
> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251027260?answerId=252097327022
> 
> The solution is to give "Full Disk Access" to /bin/bash.  [1]
> 
> But I don't know why it works, since I in fact use tcsh, and neither does the 
> person who offered the solution. 
> 
> [1] /bin is hidden to us by OS X, so one needs to navigate to "Macintosh HD" 
> and then type "command+shift" plus the " . " symbol to make the directory 
> visible. 
> 
> 
> Best,
> Ben
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 5, 2020, at 5:10 PM, Ben Kilminster  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello, 
>> 
>> I'm on a Mac  (Mac Catalina 10.15.2, XQuartz 2.7.11).
>> 
>> The problem is using the xterm provided by XQuartz, I no longer have 
>> permission to look in my directories :
>> Wed 16:59 [bjk] ls ~/Documents/
>> ls: : Operation not permitted
>> 
>> I found a solution recommended online, which is :
>> 1) System Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Privacy -> "Full Disk Access" 
>> 2) Unlock then add "Applications/Utilities/XQuartz.app"
>> 3) Restart everything.
>> 
>> However, I still get the same error.  
>> 
>> The other "Terminal" program still works, so this is not fatal.  
>> But right now XQuartz is not usable for me.  Suggestions ?
>> 
>> Best,
>> Ben
>> 
>> p.s. Apologies if I am posting to the wrong forum or should have found the 
>> answer to this somewhere online. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[David Ledger via X11-users]

On 2020-02-07 08:44, Ben Kilminster wrote:



On 2020-02-05 16:10, Ben Kilminster via X11-users wrote:

Hello,
I'm on a Mac  (Mac Catalina 10.15.2, XQuartz 2.7.11).
The problem is using the xterm provided by XQuartz, I no longer have 
permission to look in my directories :

Wed 16:59 [bjk] ls ~/Documents/
ls: : Operation not permitted
I found a solution recommended online, which is :
1) System Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Privacy -> "Full Disk 
Access"

2) Unlock then add "Applications/Utilities/XQuartz.app"
3) Restart everything.
However, I still get the same error.
The other "Terminal" program still works, so this is not fatal.
But right now XQuartz is not usable for me.  Suggestions ?


It look like you are either not *who* you think you are or not *where* 
you think you are.


In both of a fresh Terminal and a fresh xterm, do:

$ pwd
$ id
$ echo $0
$ echo $SHELL
$ echo ~
$ echo $HOME

They should match between the Terminal and xterm environments.

Whichever terminal (lower 't') you use it's the shell that does the 
work not the terminal.


David



Hello David,

Unfortunately, both agree.
There are plenty of other ideas though, and I will go through them all.


I wonder if it's anything to do with Sandboxing. It's something I know 
virtually nothing about.


David




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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Fco. Javier Modrego via X11-users]

Here https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251065137 there is another solution 
worth to try…



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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Ben Kilminster via X11-users]

Hi,

I found a solution that worked, which was recommended on the "macOS Catalina" 
forum at discussions.apple.com :  
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251027260?answerId=252097327022

The solution is to give "Full Disk Access" to /bin/bash.  [1]

But I don't know why it works, since I in fact use tcsh, and neither does the 
person who offered the solution. 

[1] /bin is hidden to us by OS X, so one needs to navigate to "Macintosh HD" 
and then type "command+shift" plus the " . " symbol to make the directory 
visible. 


Best,
Ben



> On Feb 5, 2020, at 5:10 PM, Ben Kilminster  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello, 
> 
> I'm on a Mac  (Mac Catalina 10.15.2, XQuartz 2.7.11).
> 
> The problem is using the xterm provided by XQuartz, I no longer have 
> permission to look in my directories :
> Wed 16:59 [bjk] ls ~/Documents/
> ls: : Operation not permitted
> 
> I found a solution recommended online, which is :
> 1) System Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Privacy -> "Full Disk Access" 
> 2) Unlock then add "Applications/Utilities/XQuartz.app"
> 3) Restart everything.
> 
> However, I still get the same error.  
> 
> The other "Terminal" program still works, so this is not fatal.  
> But right now XQuartz is not usable for me.  Suggestions ?
> 
> Best,
> Ben
> 
> p.s. Apologies if I am posting to the wrong forum or should have found the 
> answer to this somewhere online. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Ben Kilminster via X11-users]

Hi John,

There is no "XTerm" app visible anywhere. 

Best,
Ben


> On Feb 5, 2020, at 9:51 PM, John Francini  wrote:
> 
> Another thing to try. 
> 
> Follow the steps you did earlier for adding XQuartz but instead add the XTerm 
> app. The difference here is that you are adding the app that actually owns 
> the child processes - which isn't XQuartz, but is XTerm.
> 
> Just my $0.02.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
>> On 5 Feb 2020, at 14:36, Mike Thornburg (mthorn) via X11-users 
>> mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2020, at 10:16 AM, Pascal Bourguignon via X11-users 
>>> mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 5 Feb 2020, at 17:10, Ben Kilminster via X11-users 
>>>> mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello, 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm on a Mac  (Mac Catalina 10.15.2, XQuartz 2.7.11).
>>>> 
>>>> The problem is using the xterm provided by XQuartz, I no longer have 
>>>> permission to look in my directories :
>>>> Wed 16:59 [bjk] ls ~/Documents/
>>>> ls: : Operation not permitted
>>>> 
>>>> I found a solution recommended online, which is :
>>>> 1) System Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Privacy -> "Full Disk 
>>>> Access" 
>>>> 2) Unlock then add "Applications/Utilities/XQuartz.app"
>>>> 3) Restart everything.
>>>> 
>>>> However, I still get the same error.  
>>>> 
>>>> The other "Terminal" program still works, so this is not fatal.  
>>>> But right now XQuartz is not usable for me.  Suggestions ?
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Ben
>>>> 
>>>> p.s. Apologies if I am posting to the wrong forum or should have found the 
>>>> answer to this somewhere online. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 1- consider switching to Linux.
>>> 
>>> 2- Disable System Integrity Protection.
>>> 
>>> $ csrutil status
>>> System Integrity Protection status: disabled.
>>> 
>>> But this will probably not work anymore in future versions of macOS…  
>>> therefore consider switching to Linux.  Or FreeBSD or OpenBSD if you really 
>>> want.
>>> 
>>> Note: you will need to reboot in Recovery Mode to do that.
>>> 
>> 
>> I don't know if this workaround works on Catalina because I am still running 
>> Mohave, but 
>> I have found that if I enable my account for remote login, start an xterm, 
>> and 
>> 
>>   ssh my_user_id@localhost
>> 
>> from within the xterm I can access the locations (eg, ~/Library/Safari) that 
>> are protected by System Integrity 
>> Protection on Mohave without having to disable System Integrity Protection.  
>> I don't know if it makes any 
>> difference here, but I have also given the Terminal.app Full Disk Access in 
>> the Security & Privacy preferences.
>> 
>> If you want to start other xclients from the remote login session you will 
>> need to do something to set up 
>> the DISPLAY environment variable properly in your new shell, but as far as I 
>> know once you do that everything 
>> works.
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Thomas Dickey via X11-users]

On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 09:30:52PM -0500, Jonathan Prescott wrote:
> As a data point, if it is relevant, rxvt has always worked from El Capitan, 
> which was when I bought this Mac, to Catalina today.  Not sure if that is 
> important, but, it is an observation.  ETerm was not working, but, I haven’t 
> upgraded it since the MacPorts upgrade.  I normally used Apple’s Terminal, 
> and iTerm, but, xterm, et al, are useful once in awhile, which why I keep 
> them around.
> 
> Another point, the last time I installed xterm prior to today, the operating
> system was Catalina 10.15.2.  When I upgraded MacPorts today, my machine had
> been upgraded to 10.15.3 in the interim.  Your point about potential point
> upgrade to the devices fixing the bug could be on point.

yes - would be nice if Apple provided release notes...

In a quick check, I see that the MacPorts package for urxvt uses these
functions:

posix_openpt
grantpt
ptsname
unlockpt

while xterm uses this:

openpty

The actual choice depends on the configure script, but it is optional:

Patch #292 - 2013/04/25
 * add   configure   option   --disable-openpty  to  control  whether
   openpty() may be used in preference to posix_openpt().
 * improve  workaround  from [451]patch #279 for BSD systems which do
   not complete initialization until both sides of the pseudoterminal
   are  opened,  by preferring openpty() function over posix_openpt()
   when available (report by Christian Weisgerber).

That bug report referred to MacOS, and because it related to timing
(which will be different between different terminal programs), one
may "work" while another has unexpected behavior.

> Jonathan
> 
> > On Feb 6, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Thomas Dickey  wrote:
> > 
> > On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 10:37:34AM -0500, Jonathan Prescott wrote:
> >> Well, let’s just say that, on MacOS Catalina 10.15.3, the xterm I had
> >> installed, the latest at the time from MacPorts, failed in the way everyone
> >> has been noting lately.  I did my periodic update of MacPorts, and I 
> >> noticed
> >> that xterm was updated this cycle.  After the MacPorts update, xterm worked
> >> like everyone is expecting.  Now, whether it was xterm that was fixed, or 
> >> an
> >> X11 related library (that’s all I use MacPorts for), I couldn’t tell you. 
> >> However, it was not a change in the operating system, or XQuartz (not X11
> >> server), since these didn’t change.
> > 
> > I don't know - since nothing relevant changed in xterm (it's been almost
> > all font-related/display-related things in the past year).
> > 
> > A few years ago someone had a problem with those symptoms which was
> > apparently due to MacOS/OSX associating permissions to the _pseudo 
> > terminal_.
> > 
> > In a quick check, it seems I last revised that in 2011.
> > 
> > I upgraded one of my machines to Catalina in October to investigate this
> > (there are a couple of pty-interfaces which _could_ be used, and possibly
> > Apple's broken a different one in Catalina), but found no corresponding
> > problem (but that one started as Mohave - upgrades from older releases,
> > I think, accumulate crud that Apple doesn't cleanup).
> > 
> > If the problem is related to file-permissions (and acls), I suppose
> > it's also possible that an unrelated upgrade will replace some
> > file and suddenly relieve some bug.  But I don't know to advise you
> > on that -- only on things that I can reproduce :-)
> > 
> >> Jonathan
> >> 
> >>> On Feb 6, 2020, at 3:54 AM, Thomas Dickey  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> - Original Message -
> >>> | From: "Apple X11 Users' List" 
> >>> | To: "David Ledger" 
> >>> | Cc: "Apple X11 Users' List" 
> >>> | Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 9:35:37 PM
> >>> | Subject: Re: xterm operation not permitted
> >>> 
> >>> | I just updated my MacPorts distribution, and the new xterm seems to 
> >>> have been
> >>> | fixed so that it works on Catalina as you would expect.
> >>> | Jonathan
> >>> 
> >>> that's not due to a change in xterm, but some permissions bug in the 
> >>> pseudo-terminal support.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Thomas E. Dickey 
> > https://invisible-island.net <https://invisible-island.net/>
> > ftp://ftp.invisible-island.net <ftp://ftp.invisible-island.net/>

-- 
Thomas E. Dickey 
https://invisible-island.net
ftp://ftp.invisible-island.net


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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Ben Kilminster via X11-users]

> On Feb 5, 2020, at 7:30 PM, Fco. Javier Modrego via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> Reinstall xquartz by first uninstalling it completely.
> 
> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250731310
> 
> http://information-technology.web.cern.ch/services/fe/mac-support/howto/about-macos-1015-catalina
> 
> Bets,
> FJM
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> 


Dear FJM,

This did not work.  I did a complete uninstall (using AppCleaner, which does a 
thorough job) and re-installed. 

Thanks,
Ben






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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Ben Kilminster via X11-users]

> On 2020-02-05 16:10, Ben Kilminster via X11-users wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I'm on a Mac  (Mac Catalina 10.15.2, XQuartz 2.7.11).
>> The problem is using the xterm provided by XQuartz, I no longer have 
>> permission to look in my directories :
>> Wed 16:59 [bjk] ls ~/Documents/
>> ls: : Operation not permitted
>> I found a solution recommended online, which is :
>> 1) System Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Privacy -> "Full Disk Access"
>> 2) Unlock then add "Applications/Utilities/XQuartz.app"
>> 3) Restart everything.
>> However, I still get the same error.
>> The other "Terminal" program still works, so this is not fatal.
>> But right now XQuartz is not usable for me.  Suggestions ?
> 
> It look like you are either not *who* you think you are or not *where* you 
> think you are.
> 
> In both of a fresh Terminal and a fresh xterm, do:
> 
> $ pwd
> $ id
> $ echo $0
> $ echo $SHELL
> $ echo ~
> $ echo $HOME
> 
> They should match between the Terminal and xterm environments.
> 
> Whichever terminal (lower 't') you use it's the shell that does the work not 
> the terminal.
> 
> David
> 

Hello David, 

Unfortunately, both agree. 
There are plenty of other ideas though, and I will go through them all.


XQuartz xterm : 
Fri 9:37 [bjk] pwd
/Users/bjk
Fri 9:37 [bjk] id
uid=501(bjk) ...
Fri 9:37 [bjk] echo $0
tcsh
Fri 9:38 [bjk] echo $SHELL
/bin/tcsh
Fri 9:38 [bjk] echo ~
/Users/bjk
Fri 9:38 [bjk] echo $HOME
/Users/bjk

Terminal : 
Fri 9:37 [bjk] pwd
/Users/bjk
Fri 9:38 [bjk] id
uid=501(bjk) 
Fri 9:38 [bjk] echo $0
-tcsh
Fri 9:38 [bjk] echo $SHELL
/bin/tcsh
Fri 9:38 [bjk] echo ~
/Users/bjk
Fri 9:38 [bjk] echo $HOME
/Users/bjk
Fri 9:38 [bjk] 


Best,
Ben



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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Jonathan Prescott via X11-users]

As a data point, if it is relevant, rxvt has always worked from El Capitan, 
which was when I bought this Mac, to Catalina today.  Not sure if that is 
important, but, it is an observation.  ETerm was not working, but, I haven’t 
upgraded it since the MacPorts upgrade.  I normally used Apple’s Terminal, and 
iTerm, but, xterm, et al, are useful once in awhile, which why I keep them 
around.

Another point, the last time I installed xterm prior to today, the operating 
system was Catalina 10.15.2.  When I upgraded MacPorts today, my machine had 
been upgraded to 10.15.3 in the interim.  Your point about potential point 
upgrade to the devices fixing the bug could be on point.

Jonathan

> On Feb 6, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Thomas Dickey  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 10:37:34AM -0500, Jonathan Prescott wrote:
>> Well, let’s just say that, on MacOS Catalina 10.15.3, the xterm I had
>> installed, the latest at the time from MacPorts, failed in the way everyone
>> has been noting lately.  I did my periodic update of MacPorts, and I noticed
>> that xterm was updated this cycle.  After the MacPorts update, xterm worked
>> like everyone is expecting.  Now, whether it was xterm that was fixed, or an
>> X11 related library (that’s all I use MacPorts for), I couldn’t tell you. 
>> However, it was not a change in the operating system, or XQuartz (not X11
>> server), since these didn’t change.
> 
> I don't know - since nothing relevant changed in xterm (it's been almost
> all font-related/display-related things in the past year).
> 
> A few years ago someone had a problem with those symptoms which was
> apparently due to MacOS/OSX associating permissions to the _pseudo terminal_.
> 
> In a quick check, it seems I last revised that in 2011.
> 
> I upgraded one of my machines to Catalina in October to investigate this
> (there are a couple of pty-interfaces which _could_ be used, and possibly
> Apple's broken a different one in Catalina), but found no corresponding
> problem (but that one started as Mohave - upgrades from older releases,
> I think, accumulate crud that Apple doesn't cleanup).
> 
> If the problem is related to file-permissions (and acls), I suppose
> it's also possible that an unrelated upgrade will replace some
> file and suddenly relieve some bug.  But I don't know to advise you
> on that -- only on things that I can reproduce :-)
> 
>> Jonathan
>> 
>>> On Feb 6, 2020, at 3:54 AM, Thomas Dickey  wrote:
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> | From: "Apple X11 Users' List" 
>>> | To: "David Ledger" 
>>> | Cc: "Apple X11 Users' List" 
>>> | Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 9:35:37 PM
>>> | Subject: Re: xterm operation not permitted
>>> 
>>> | I just updated my MacPorts distribution, and the new xterm seems to have 
>>> been
>>> | fixed so that it works on Catalina as you would expect.
>>> | Jonathan
>>> 
>>> that's not due to a change in xterm, but some permissions bug in the 
>>> pseudo-terminal support.
> 
> -- 
> Thomas E. Dickey 
> https://invisible-island.net <https://invisible-island.net/>
> ftp://ftp.invisible-island.net <ftp://ftp.invisible-island.net/>
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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Thomas Dickey via X11-users]

On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 10:37:34AM -0500, Jonathan Prescott wrote:
> Well, let’s just say that, on MacOS Catalina 10.15.3, the xterm I had
> installed, the latest at the time from MacPorts, failed in the way everyone
> has been noting lately.  I did my periodic update of MacPorts, and I noticed
> that xterm was updated this cycle.  After the MacPorts update, xterm worked
> like everyone is expecting.  Now, whether it was xterm that was fixed, or an
> X11 related library (that’s all I use MacPorts for), I couldn’t tell you. 
> However, it was not a change in the operating system, or XQuartz (not X11
> server), since these didn’t change.

I don't know - since nothing relevant changed in xterm (it's been almost
all font-related/display-related things in the past year).

A few years ago someone had a problem with those symptoms which was
apparently due to MacOS/OSX associating permissions to the _pseudo terminal_.

In a quick check, it seems I last revised that in 2011.

I upgraded one of my machines to Catalina in October to investigate this
(there are a couple of pty-interfaces which _could_ be used, and possibly
Apple's broken a different one in Catalina), but found no corresponding
problem (but that one started as Mohave - upgrades from older releases,
I think, accumulate crud that Apple doesn't cleanup).

If the problem is related to file-permissions (and acls), I suppose
it's also possible that an unrelated upgrade will replace some
file and suddenly relieve some bug.  But I don't know to advise you
on that -- only on things that I can reproduce :-)
 
> Jonathan
> 
> > On Feb 6, 2020, at 3:54 AM, Thomas Dickey  wrote:
> > 
> > - Original Message -
> > | From: "Apple X11 Users' List" 
> > | To: "David Ledger" 
> > | Cc: "Apple X11 Users' List" 
> > | Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 9:35:37 PM
> > | Subject: Re: xterm operation not permitted
> > 
> > | I just updated my MacPorts distribution, and the new xterm seems to have 
> > been
> > | fixed so that it works on Catalina as you would expect.
> > | Jonathan
> > 
> > that's not due to a change in xterm, but some permissions bug in the 
> > pseudo-terminal support.

-- 
Thomas E. Dickey 
https://invisible-island.net
ftp://ftp.invisible-island.net


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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Jonathan Prescott via X11-users]

Well, let’s just say that, on MacOS Catalina 10.15.3, the xterm I had 
installed, the latest at the time from MacPorts, failed in the way everyone has 
been noting lately.  I did my periodic update of MacPorts, and I noticed that 
xterm was updated this cycle.  After the MacPorts update, xterm worked like 
everyone is expecting.  Now, whether it was xterm that was fixed, or an X11 
related library (that’s all I use MacPorts for), I couldn’t tell you.  However, 
it was not a change in the operating system, or XQuartz (not X11 server), since 
these didn’t change.

Jonathan

> On Feb 6, 2020, at 3:54 AM, Thomas Dickey  wrote:
> 
> - Original Message -
> | From: "Apple X11 Users' List" 
> | To: "David Ledger" 
> | Cc: "Apple X11 Users' List" 
> | Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 9:35:37 PM
> | Subject: Re: xterm operation not permitted
> 
> | I just updated my MacPorts distribution, and the new xterm seems to have 
> been
> | fixed so that it works on Catalina as you would expect.
> | Jonathan
> 
> that's not due to a change in xterm, but some permissions bug in the 
> pseudo-terminal support.
> 
> -- 
> Thomas E. Dickey 
> http://invisible-island.net
> ftp://ftp.invisible-island.net

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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Thomas Dickey via X11-users]

- Original Message -
| From: "Apple X11 Users' List" 
| To: "David Ledger" 
| Cc: "Apple X11 Users' List" 
| Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 9:35:37 PM
| Subject: Re: xterm operation not permitted

| I just updated my MacPorts distribution, and the new xterm seems to have been
| fixed so that it works on Catalina as you would expect.
| Jonathan

that's not due to a change in xterm, but some permissions bug in the 
pseudo-terminal support.

-- 
Thomas E. Dickey 
http://invisible-island.net
ftp://ftp.invisible-island.net
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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[David Ledger via X11-users]

On 2020-02-05 16:10, Ben Kilminster via X11-users wrote:

Hello,

I'm on a Mac  (Mac Catalina 10.15.2, XQuartz 2.7.11).

The problem is using the xterm provided by XQuartz, I no longer have 
permission to look in my directories :

Wed 16:59 [bjk] ls ~/Documents/
ls: : Operation not permitted

I found a solution recommended online, which is :
1) System Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Privacy -> "Full Disk 
Access"

2) Unlock then add "Applications/Utilities/XQuartz.app"
3) Restart everything.

However, I still get the same error.

The other "Terminal" program still works, so this is not fatal.
But right now XQuartz is not usable for me.  Suggestions ?


It look like you are either not *who* you think you are or not *where* 
you think you are.


In both of a fresh Terminal and a fresh xterm, do:

$ pwd
$ id
$ echo $0
$ echo $SHELL
$ echo ~
$ echo $HOME

They should match between the Terminal and xterm environments.

Whichever terminal (lower 't') you use it's the shell that does the work 
not the terminal.


David

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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[John Francini via X11-users]

Another thing to try. 

Follow the steps you did earlier for adding XQuartz but instead add the XTerm 
app. The difference here is that you are adding the app that actually owns the 
child processes - which isn't XQuartz, but is XTerm.

Just my $0.02.

John



> On 5 Feb 2020, at 14:36, Mike Thornburg (mthorn) via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2020, at 10:16 AM, Pascal Bourguignon via X11-users 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 5 Feb 2020, at 17:10, Ben Kilminster via X11-users 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello, 
>>> 
>>> I'm on a Mac  (Mac Catalina 10.15.2, XQuartz 2.7.11).
>>> 
>>> The problem is using the xterm provided by XQuartz, I no longer have 
>>> permission to look in my directories :
>>> Wed 16:59 [bjk] ls ~/Documents/
>>> ls: : Operation not permitted
>>> 
>>> I found a solution recommended online, which is :
>>> 1) System Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Privacy -> "Full Disk 
>>> Access" 
>>> 2) Unlock then add "Applications/Utilities/XQuartz.app"
>>> 3) Restart everything.
>>> 
>>> However, I still get the same error.  
>>> 
>>> The other "Terminal" program still works, so this is not fatal.  
>>> But right now XQuartz is not usable for me.  Suggestions ?
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Ben
>>> 
>>> p.s. Apologies if I am posting to the wrong forum or should have found the 
>>> answer to this somewhere online. 
>> 
>> 
>> 1- consider switching to Linux.
>> 
>> 2- Disable System Integrity Protection.
>> 
>> $ csrutil status
>> System Integrity Protection status: disabled.
>> 
>> But this will probably not work anymore in future versions of macOS…  
>> therefore consider switching to Linux.  Or FreeBSD or OpenBSD if you really 
>> want.
>> 
>> Note: you will need to reboot in Recovery Mode to do that.
>> 
> 
> I don't know if this workaround works on Catalina because I am still running 
> Mohave, but 
> I have found that if I enable my account for remote login, start an xterm, 
> and 
> 
>   ssh my_user_id@localhost
> 
> from within the xterm I can access the locations (eg, ~/Library/Safari) that 
> are protected by System Integrity 
> Protection on Mohave without having to disable System Integrity Protection.  
> I don't know if it makes any 
> difference here, but I have also given the Terminal.app Full Disk Access in 
> the Security & Privacy preferences.
> 
> If you want to start other xclients from the remote login session you will 
> need to do something to set up 
> the DISPLAY environment variable properly in your new shell, but as far as I 
> know once you do that everything 
> works.
> 
> Mike
> 
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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Mike Thornburg (mthorn) via X11-users]

> On Feb 5, 2020, at 10:16 AM, Pascal Bourguignon via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 5 Feb 2020, at 17:10, Ben Kilminster via X11-users 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello, 
>> 
>> I'm on a Mac  (Mac Catalina 10.15.2, XQuartz 2.7.11).
>> 
>> The problem is using the xterm provided by XQuartz, I no longer have 
>> permission to look in my directories :
>> Wed 16:59 [bjk] ls ~/Documents/
>> ls: : Operation not permitted
>> 
>> I found a solution recommended online, which is :
>> 1) System Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Privacy -> "Full Disk Access" 
>> 2) Unlock then add "Applications/Utilities/XQuartz.app"
>> 3) Restart everything.
>> 
>> However, I still get the same error.  
>> 
>> The other "Terminal" program still works, so this is not fatal.  
>> But right now XQuartz is not usable for me.  Suggestions ?
>> 
>> Best,
>> Ben
>> 
>> p.s. Apologies if I am posting to the wrong forum or should have found the 
>> answer to this somewhere online. 
> 
> 
> 1- consider switching to Linux.
> 
> 2- Disable System Integrity Protection.
> 
> $ csrutil status
> System Integrity Protection status: disabled.
> 
> But this will probably not work anymore in future versions of macOS…  
> therefore consider switching to Linux.  Or FreeBSD or OpenBSD if you really 
> want.
> 
> Note: you will need to reboot in Recovery Mode to do that.
> 

I don't know if this workaround works on Catalina because I am still running 
Mohave, but 
I have found that if I enable my account for remote login, start an xterm, and 

   ssh my_user_id@localhost

from within the xterm I can access the locations (eg, ~/Library/Safari) that 
are protected by System Integrity 
Protection on Mohave without having to disable System Integrity Protection.  I 
don't know if it makes any 
difference here, but I have also given the Terminal.app Full Disk Access in the 
Security & Privacy preferences.

If you want to start other xclients from the remote login session you will need 
to do something to set up 
the DISPLAY environment variable properly in your new shell, but as far as I 
know once you do that everything 
works.

Mike

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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Fco. Javier Modrego via X11-users]

Reinstall xquartz by first uninstalling it completely.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250731310

http://information-technology.web.cern.ch/services/fe/mac-support/howto/about-macos-1015-catalina

Bets,
FJM
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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Pascal Bourguignon via X11-users]

> On 5 Feb 2020, at 17:10, Ben Kilminster via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello, 
> 
> I'm on a Mac  (Mac Catalina 10.15.2, XQuartz 2.7.11).
> 
> The problem is using the xterm provided by XQuartz, I no longer have 
> permission to look in my directories :
> Wed 16:59 [bjk] ls ~/Documents/
> ls: : Operation not permitted
> 
> I found a solution recommended online, which is :
> 1) System Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Privacy -> "Full Disk Access" 
> 2) Unlock then add "Applications/Utilities/XQuartz.app"
> 3) Restart everything.
> 
> However, I still get the same error.  
> 
> The other "Terminal" program still works, so this is not fatal.  
> But right now XQuartz is not usable for me.  Suggestions ?
> 
> Best,
> Ben
> 
> p.s. Apologies if I am posting to the wrong forum or should have found the 
> answer to this somewhere online. 


1- consider switching to Linux.

2- Disable System Integrity Protection.

$ csrutil status
System Integrity Protection status: disabled.

But this will probably not work anymore in future versions of macOS…  therefore 
consider switching to Linux.  Or FreeBSD or OpenBSD if you really want.

Note: you will need to reboot in Recovery Mode to do that.


-- 
__Pascal J. Bourguignon__




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xterm operation not permitted

[Ben Kilminster via X11-users]

Hello, 

I'm on a Mac  (Mac Catalina 10.15.2, XQuartz 2.7.11).

The problem is using the xterm provided by XQuartz, I no longer have permission 
to look in my directories :
Wed 16:59 [bjk] ls ~/Documents/
ls: : Operation not permitted

I found a solution recommended online, which is :
1) System Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Privacy -> "Full Disk Access" 
2) Unlock then add "Applications/Utilities/XQuartz.app"
3) Restart everything.

However, I still get the same error.  

The other "Terminal" program still works, so this is not fatal.  
But right now XQuartz is not usable for me.  Suggestions ?

Best,
Ben

p.s. Apologies if I am posting to the wrong forum or should have found the 
answer to this somewhere online. 






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Re: Operation not permitted

[Egan Ford via X11-users]

Just upgraded to Catalina today.  Same problem with ~/Documents, et al.
Adding XQuartz, uxterm, etc... did not work.  However adding /bin/bash to
Security/Privacy fixed it for me (I've not switched to zsh yet).

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 5:27 PM Jonathan Prescott via X11-users <
x11-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:

> All of that makes sense.  However, with Catalina, macOSX/Darwin seems to
> now treat the Documents, Downloads, and Desktop directories a little
> differently, at least with regard to whatever xterm is doing in starting
> processes and setting permissions.  Eterm does as well.  rxvt does not.
> Those are the only X-Window terminal applications I have tried.  Apple
> Terminal, and iTerm2 also do not have a problem.  Any other directory in
> the user’s home directory also do not have problems at all, no matter what
> terminal program you use.  Even xterm and Eterm start to behave normally if
> you futz around with them.  Doesn’t matter whether they are started as part
> of the X11.app/XQuartz.app, or from a separate terminal session, like
> Terminal.  Doesn’t happen on Mojave or earlier MacOSX releases.
>
> These three directories are probably considered by Apple to be, for the
> normal user, needing more security, and there may be an obscure bug that
> xterm and others have triggered in Catalina.
>
> Apple has been making security related changes to the file structure since
> moving to APFS as the boot disk file system.  It would be interesting to
> see if the behavior was different if the user’s home directory was located
> on an HFS+-formatted volume, or an NFS/SMB/Appletalk volume.
>
> Since X11 on MacOSX is now pretty much a volunteer effort, it’s not clear
> how much attention is being paid to something obscure like this, especially
> if there are alternatives and workarounds.
>
> Jonathan
>
> > On Oct 24, 2019, at 6:43 PM, JF Mezei via X11-users <
> x11-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
> >
> > ps -a -f
> >
> > bike:~ $  ps -a -f -x | grep 9780
> >  501  9780 1   0  6:22PM ?? 0:00.28 /opt/X11/bin/xterm
> >  501  9968  9780   0  6:22PM ttys0000:00.01 bash
> >  501 10057 10029   0  6:31PM ttys0000:00.00 grep 9780
> >
> > One would have to look at the xterm code which creates the process whose
> > input and output are to itself (so it can display in the window).
> >
> > In this case, the xterm was created from the X11 GUI  "Applications"
> > menu optiosn wghere I have one to run xterm. But note that the parent
> > process of the created xterm is 1 and not that of the X11 app.
> >
> > Another example:
> >
> >0 86493 86492   0   0:00.01 ttys0000:00.02 login -pf root
> >0 86494 86493   0   0:00.01 ttys0000:00.01 -sh
> >0 86503 86494   0   0:05.07 ttys0000:45.66 xterm -e login
> >0 86504 86503   0   0:01.08 ttys0010:04.05 login
> >  501 86526 86504   0   0:00.00 ttys0010:00.01 -bash
> >0 86562 86526   0   0:00.00 ttys0010:00.00 ps -a -f -x
> >
> >
> > In this example I am GUI logged in as root. Start a terminal.app window.
> > Which causes the "login -pf root" command and the "sh" commands.
> > I then issued a export DISPLAY="10.0.0.21:0.0" (not shown since not a
> > process), and xterm-e login.
> >
> > Notice the login process is created as a root process. It spanws a
> > supbrocess to run bash under my normal usename of 501.
> >
> > I am not sure about flag inheritance when the "login" happens to another
> > process. But in the second example, the bash running under 501 is not a
> > child of xterm, it is a child of login. while xterm is in the tree, it
> > is under a different username and the bash process does not inherit any
> > of root's powers.
> >
> > I know this doesn't answer things, but a better understanding of process
> > inheritance of whatecer flag Apple uses to allow/disallow access to your
> > onw files would point to what binary needs to be granted access.
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Re: Operation not permitted

[JF Mezei via X11-users]

ps -a -f

bike:~ $  ps -a -f -x | grep 9780
  501  9780 1   0  6:22PM ?? 0:00.28 /opt/X11/bin/xterm
  501  9968  9780   0  6:22PM ttys0000:00.01 bash
  501 10057 10029   0  6:31PM ttys0000:00.00 grep 9780

One would have to look at the xterm code which creates the process whose
input and output are to itself (so it can display in the window).

In this case, the xterm was created from the X11 GUI  "Applications"
menu optiosn wghere I have one to run xterm. But note that the parent
process of the created xterm is 1 and not that of the X11 app.

Another example:

0 86493 86492   0   0:00.01 ttys0000:00.02 login -pf root
0 86494 86493   0   0:00.01 ttys0000:00.01 -sh
0 86503 86494   0   0:05.07 ttys0000:45.66 xterm -e login
0 86504 86503   0   0:01.08 ttys0010:04.05 login
  501 86526 86504   0   0:00.00 ttys0010:00.01 -bash
0 86562 86526   0   0:00.00 ttys0010:00.00 ps -a -f -x


In this example I am GUI logged in as root. Start a terminal.app window.
Which causes the "login -pf root" command and the "sh" commands.
I then issued a export DISPLAY="10.0.0.21:0.0" (not shown since not a
process), and xterm-e login.

Notice the login process is created as a root process. It spanws a
supbrocess to run bash under my normal usename of 501.

I am not sure about flag inheritance when the "login" happens to another
process. But in the second example, the bash running under 501 is not a
child of xterm, it is a child of login. while xterm is in the tree, it
is under a different username and the bash process does not inherit any
of root's powers.

I know this doesn't answer things, but a better understanding of process
inheritance of whatecer flag Apple uses to allow/disallow access to your
onw files would point to what binary needs to be granted access.
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Re: Operation not permitted

[René J . V . Bertin via X11-users]

On Monday October 21 2019 16:03:55 Jonathan Prescott wrote:
>If you are using xterm, that seems to be the case.  Using other X-Window 
>terminal programs like rxvt don’t seem to have the problem.  Using native 
>MacOSX terminal applications like Terminal.app and iTerm2.app don’t have any 
>problems.  

I'd be curious to know if the KF5 Konsole is affected similarly (that one can 
even be used in native cocoa and in X11 mode), but I won't ask because of the 
amount of work (building ports from my macstrop ports tree) required to install 
it...

>However, after all of my playing around, xterm is now working as it should.  
>All the cd’ing, ls’ing, in all kinds of circumstances seems to have set 
>something.

IMHO this still doesn't make sense; commands like `ls` are spawned by the shell 
you have running inside your terminal emulator, not by the terminal emulator 
itself. The `cd` command however is executed directly by the shell, so if 
cd'ing works the shell apparently has the necessary permissions.
FWIW, the tcsh shell has a built-in `ls-F` command, which could be interesting 
to try. Also interesting: install the coreutils package from Macports and see 
if `gls` (GNU ls) has the same problems as /usr/bin/ls.

Either way, this does reek of a bug somewhere, for which a radar should be 
filed. After all XQuartz has always has some form of support (if not just 
acknowledgement) from Apple.

R.
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Re: Operation not permitted

[Jonathan Prescott via X11-users]

If you are using xterm, that seems to be the case.  Using other X-Window 
terminal programs like rxvt don’t seem to have the problem.  Using native 
MacOSX terminal applications like Terminal.app and iTerm2.app don’t have any 
problems.  

However, after all of my playing around, xterm is now working as it should.  
All the cd’ing, ls’ing, in all kinds of circumstances seems to have set 
something.

Jonathan

> On Oct 21, 2019, at 3:51 PM, David L Chopp  wrote:
> 
> I also tried adding /opt/X11/bin/xterm and /bin/ls to the Full Disk Access 
> list and that didn’t work either. Funny thing is, I can access almost every 
> folder on the machine *except* Documents, Desktop, Downloads.  Seems odd that 
> security would be tight around my own Documents, but the system itself 
> including /usr and /opt is fair game.  On the other hand, cd seems to work 
> fine. I can get to any directory within Documents. I can do mkdir inside 
> Documents and then within the created directory I can do the usual 
> operations. So for example, I can create a directory 
> /Users/Myname/Documents/foo using mkdir. I can go to the finder and drag a 
> file from anywhere in Documents and drop it in the new directory, and then I 
> can view/edit/ls/whatever as long as I’m in that directory. So my guess is 
> there’s something peculiar going on with just the Documents, Desktop, and 
> Downloads directories and their subdirectories. Note that creating a new 
> folder via the Finder does not work, the new directory has the same 
> limitations as its parent.  For me, this may be the temporary fix. Create an 
> “Uploads” folder using mkdir so I can transfer files between remote machine 
> and local mac using scp and then work through the Finder locally.  Not ideal, 
> but it could be worse.
> 
> Dave
> 
>> On Oct 21, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Jonathan Prescott > <mailto:jprescot...@icloud.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> As an addendum, using Eterm is not quite the same.  Just re-built Eterm, and 
>> tried it out.  Trying to `ls` Desktop, Documents, and Download, got the 
>> behavior mentioned in this thread.  Cd’ed to Desktop, then did `ls`, worked 
>> fine.  Cd`ed back to home and then did `ls` on Desktop, worked fine.  Same 
>> for the others.  Always worked on other directories from home such as 
>> Public, Sites, Pictures, Movies, and other directories I’ve created.
>> 
>> rxvt had no problem from the get go.
>> 
>> Looks like Catalina introduced something into the Posix sub-system that 
>> xterm, Eterm were using.  Probably a bug-fix that xterm and Eterm were 
>> taking advantage of.
>> 
>> Jonathan
>> 
>>> On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:00 PM, Jonathan Prescott via X11-users 
>>> mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think the issue is xterm, not XQuartz.app or X11.app.  I got rid of my 
>>> XQuartz installation, and the old X11.app installation, and re-built 
>>> xorg-server from MacPorts from scratch on Catalina using Xcode 11.0 command 
>>> line tools.  Xterm behaved as has been described in this thread, but, rxvt, 
>>> eterm seem to be working fine, at least with respect to the behavior here.  
>>> Running with SIP activated, stock Catalina install, X11 support installed 
>>> in /opt.
>>> 
>>> Jonathan
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 21, 2019, at 12:16 PM, David L Chopp via X11-users 
>>>> mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I tried reinstalling XQuartz, but no improvement. I don’t particularly 
>>>> want to run with SIP completely off, but maybe I’ll have to until this is 
>>>> resolved. I’ll wait until it’s a big problem. What I don’t understand is 
>>>> why ls works in my home directory, but not any of the subdirectories. 
>>>> 
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 18, 2019, at 1:45 AM, Tom Lane >>>> <mailto:t...@sss.pgh.pa.us>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> David L Chopp via X11-users >>>> <mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> writes:
>>>>>> I upgraded to Catalina and now I’m getting “Operation not permitted” 
>>>>>> when doing a simple “ls” command in my Desktop directory. Oddly enough, 
>>>>>> “ls" works fine in my home directory, just not any directories below 
>>>>>> that. I understand this is a casualty of the new SIP settings. I tried 
>>>>>> giving XQuartz full disk access in the privacy settings, but that didn’t 
>>>>>> help. Any ideas?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Have you tried re-installing XQuartz?  That'

Re: Operation not permitted

[David L Chopp via X11-users]

I also tried adding /opt/X11/bin/xterm and /bin/ls to the Full Disk Access list 
and that didn’t work either. Funny thing is, I can access almost every folder 
on the machine *except* Documents, Desktop, Downloads.  Seems odd that security 
would be tight around my own Documents, but the system itself including /usr 
and /opt is fair game.  On the other hand, cd seems to work fine. I can get to 
any directory within Documents. I can do mkdir inside Documents and then within 
the created directory I can do the usual operations. So for example, I can 
create a directory /Users/Myname/Documents/foo using mkdir. I can go to the 
finder and drag a file from anywhere in Documents and drop it in the new 
directory, and then I can view/edit/ls/whatever as long as I’m in that 
directory. So my guess is there’s something peculiar going on with just the 
Documents, Desktop, and Downloads directories and their subdirectories. Note 
that creating a new folder via the Finder does not work, the new directory has 
the same limitations as its parent.  For me, this may be the temporary fix. 
Create an “Uploads” folder using mkdir so I can transfer files between remote 
machine and local mac using scp and then work through the Finder locally.  Not 
ideal, but it could be worse.

Dave

On Oct 21, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Jonathan Prescott 
mailto:jprescot...@icloud.com>> wrote:

As an addendum, using Eterm is not quite the same.  Just re-built Eterm, and 
tried it out.  Trying to `ls` Desktop, Documents, and Download, got the 
behavior mentioned in this thread.  Cd’ed to Desktop, then did `ls`, worked 
fine.  Cd`ed back to home and then did `ls` on Desktop, worked fine.  Same for 
the others.  Always worked on other directories from home such as Public, 
Sites, Pictures, Movies, and other directories I’ve created.

rxvt had no problem from the get go.

Looks like Catalina introduced something into the Posix sub-system that xterm, 
Eterm were using.  Probably a bug-fix that xterm and Eterm were taking 
advantage of.

Jonathan

On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:00 PM, Jonathan Prescott via X11-users 
mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:

I think the issue is xterm, not XQuartz.app or X11.app.  I got rid of my 
XQuartz installation, and the old X11.app installation, and re-built 
xorg-server from MacPorts from scratch on Catalina using Xcode 11.0 command 
line tools.  Xterm behaved as has been described in this thread, but, rxvt, 
eterm seem to be working fine, at least with respect to the behavior here.  
Running with SIP activated, stock Catalina install, X11 support installed in 
/opt.

Jonathan

On Oct 21, 2019, at 12:16 PM, David L Chopp via X11-users 
mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:

I tried reinstalling XQuartz, but no improvement. I don’t particularly want to 
run with SIP completely off, but maybe I’ll have to until this is resolved. 
I’ll wait until it’s a big problem. What I don’t understand is why ls works in 
my home directory, but not any of the subdirectories.

Dave

On Oct 18, 2019, at 1:45 AM, Tom Lane 
mailto:t...@sss.pgh.pa.us>> wrote:

David L Chopp via X11-users 
mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> writes:
I upgraded to Catalina and now I’m getting “Operation not permitted” when doing 
a simple “ls” command in my Desktop directory. Oddly enough, “ls" works fine in 
my home directory, just not any directories below that. I understand this is a 
casualty of the new SIP settings. I tried giving XQuartz full disk access in 
the privacy settings, but that didn’t help. Any ideas?

Have you tried re-installing XQuartz?  That's my go-to solution for
permissions issues, and I typically find that I have to do it after
any major OS upgrade.

FWIW, I've had no problems with XQuartz under Catalina, except for
having to do the aforementioned reinstall.  But I run with SIP off
(for reasons unrelated to X11), so maybe that's not a relevant
data point for you.

regards, tom lane



But leaving those of the Body, I shall proceed to such Recreation as adorn
the Mind; of which those of the Mathematicks are inferior to none.
~William Leybourn


David Chopp
Chair
Engineering Sciences and Applied Mathematics
Northwestern University
E-mail: ch...@northwestern.edu<mailto:ch...@northwestern.edu>
Phone: (847)-491-8391
Fax: (847)-491-2178
Homepage: http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp


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Re: Operation not permitted

[Jonathan Prescott via X11-users]

As an addendum, using Eterm is not quite the same.  Just re-built Eterm, and 
tried it out.  Trying to `ls` Desktop, Documents, and Download, got the 
behavior mentioned in this thread.  Cd’ed to Desktop, then did `ls`, worked 
fine.  Cd`ed back to home and then did `ls` on Desktop, worked fine.  Same for 
the others.  Always worked on other directories from home such as Public, 
Sites, Pictures, Movies, and other directories I’ve created.

rxvt had no problem from the get go.

Looks like Catalina introduced something into the Posix sub-system that xterm, 
Eterm were using.  Probably a bug-fix that xterm and Eterm were taking 
advantage of.

Jonathan

> On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:00 PM, Jonathan Prescott via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think the issue is xterm, not XQuartz.app or X11.app.  I got rid of my 
> XQuartz installation, and the old X11.app installation, and re-built 
> xorg-server from MacPorts from scratch on Catalina using Xcode 11.0 command 
> line tools.  Xterm behaved as has been described in this thread, but, rxvt, 
> eterm seem to be working fine, at least with respect to the behavior here.  
> Running with SIP activated, stock Catalina install, X11 support installed in 
> /opt.
> 
> Jonathan
> 
>> On Oct 21, 2019, at 12:16 PM, David L Chopp via X11-users 
>> mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I tried reinstalling XQuartz, but no improvement. I don’t particularly want 
>> to run with SIP completely off, but maybe I’ll have to until this is 
>> resolved. I’ll wait until it’s a big problem. What I don’t understand is why 
>> ls works in my home directory, but not any of the subdirectories. 
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>>> On Oct 18, 2019, at 1:45 AM, Tom Lane >> <mailto:t...@sss.pgh.pa.us>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> David L Chopp via X11-users >> <mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> writes:
>>>> I upgraded to Catalina and now I’m getting “Operation not permitted” when 
>>>> doing a simple “ls” command in my Desktop directory. Oddly enough, “ls" 
>>>> works fine in my home directory, just not any directories below that. I 
>>>> understand this is a casualty of the new SIP settings. I tried giving 
>>>> XQuartz full disk access in the privacy settings, but that didn’t help. 
>>>> Any ideas?
>>> 
>>> Have you tried re-installing XQuartz?  That's my go-to solution for
>>> permissions issues, and I typically find that I have to do it after
>>> any major OS upgrade.
>>> 
>>> FWIW, I've had no problems with XQuartz under Catalina, except for
>>> having to do the aforementioned reinstall.  But I run with SIP off
>>> (for reasons unrelated to X11), so maybe that's not a relevant
>>> data point for you.
>>> 
>>> regards, tom lane
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> But leaving those of the Body, I shall proceed to such Recreation as adorn 
>> the Mind; of which those of the Mathematicks are inferior to none.  
>> ~William Leybourn
>> 
>> 
>> David Chopp
>> Chair
>> Engineering Sciences and Applied Mathematics
>> Northwestern University
>> E-mail: ch...@northwestern.edu <mailto:ch...@northwestern.edu>
>> Phone: (847)-491-8391
>> Fax: (847)-491-2178
>> Homepage: http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp 
>> <http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp>
>> 
>> 
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Re: Operation not permitted

[Jonathan Prescott via X11-users]

I think the issue is xterm, not XQuartz.app or X11.app.  I got rid of my 
XQuartz installation, and the old X11.app installation, and re-built 
xorg-server from MacPorts from scratch on Catalina using Xcode 11.0 command 
line tools.  Xterm behaved as has been described in this thread, but, rxvt, 
eterm seem to be working fine, at least with respect to the behavior here.  
Running with SIP activated, stock Catalina install, X11 support installed in 
/opt.

Jonathan

> On Oct 21, 2019, at 12:16 PM, David L Chopp via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> I tried reinstalling XQuartz, but no improvement. I don’t particularly want 
> to run with SIP completely off, but maybe I’ll have to until this is 
> resolved. I’ll wait until it’s a big problem. What I don’t understand is why 
> ls works in my home directory, but not any of the subdirectories. 
> 
> Dave
> 
>> On Oct 18, 2019, at 1:45 AM, Tom Lane > <mailto:t...@sss.pgh.pa.us>> wrote:
>> 
>> David L Chopp via X11-users > <mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> writes:
>>> I upgraded to Catalina and now I’m getting “Operation not permitted” when 
>>> doing a simple “ls” command in my Desktop directory. Oddly enough, “ls" 
>>> works fine in my home directory, just not any directories below that. I 
>>> understand this is a casualty of the new SIP settings. I tried giving 
>>> XQuartz full disk access in the privacy settings, but that didn’t help. Any 
>>> ideas?
>> 
>> Have you tried re-installing XQuartz?  That's my go-to solution for
>> permissions issues, and I typically find that I have to do it after
>> any major OS upgrade.
>> 
>> FWIW, I've had no problems with XQuartz under Catalina, except for
>> having to do the aforementioned reinstall.  But I run with SIP off
>> (for reasons unrelated to X11), so maybe that's not a relevant
>> data point for you.
>> 
>> regards, tom lane
> 
> 
> 
> But leaving those of the Body, I shall proceed to such Recreation as adorn 
> the Mind; of which those of the Mathematicks are inferior to none.  
> ~William Leybourn
> 
> 
> David Chopp
> Chair
> Engineering Sciences and Applied Mathematics
> Northwestern University
> E-mail: ch...@northwestern.edu <mailto:ch...@northwestern.edu>
> Phone: (847)-491-8391
> Fax: (847)-491-2178
> Homepage: http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp 
> <http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp>
> 
> 
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Re: Operation not permitted

[David L Chopp via X11-users]

I tried reinstalling XQuartz, but no improvement. I don’t particularly want to 
run with SIP completely off, but maybe I’ll have to until this is resolved. 
I’ll wait until it’s a big problem. What I don’t understand is why ls works in 
my home directory, but not any of the subdirectories.

Dave

On Oct 18, 2019, at 1:45 AM, Tom Lane 
mailto:t...@sss.pgh.pa.us>> wrote:

David L Chopp via X11-users 
mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> writes:
I upgraded to Catalina and now I’m getting “Operation not permitted” when doing 
a simple “ls” command in my Desktop directory. Oddly enough, “ls" works fine in 
my home directory, just not any directories below that. I understand this is a 
casualty of the new SIP settings. I tried giving XQuartz full disk access in 
the privacy settings, but that didn’t help. Any ideas?

Have you tried re-installing XQuartz?  That's my go-to solution for
permissions issues, and I typically find that I have to do it after
any major OS upgrade.

FWIW, I've had no problems with XQuartz under Catalina, except for
having to do the aforementioned reinstall.  But I run with SIP off
(for reasons unrelated to X11), so maybe that's not a relevant
data point for you.

regards, tom lane



But leaving those of the Body, I shall proceed to such Recreation as adorn
the Mind; of which those of the Mathematicks are inferior to none.
~William Leybourn


David Chopp
Chair
Engineering Sciences and Applied Mathematics
Northwestern University
E-mail: ch...@northwestern.edu<mailto:ch...@northwestern.edu>
Phone: (847)-491-8391
Fax: (847)-491-2178
Homepage: http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp


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Re: Operation not permitted

[René J . V . Bertin via X11-users]

On Thursday October 17 2019 21:49:58 David L Chopp wrote:

>...  I’m kind of stuck.

Judging from your sig you would probably be fine without the Big Brother 
security layer that SIP provides, i.e. when you disable it. Presuming that 
possibility still exists...

R.
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Re: Operation not permitted

[Tom Lane via X11-users]

Gustaf Olsson  writes:
> If this is a Mac issues, for some reason after updating to Catalina I found 
> my X11 folder moved to my desktop under a “old files” folder (my computer 
> does not speak english so a rough translation). I had to re-install XQuarts 
> to get all the functionalities I use to work correctly after updating.

Oh, yeah, that's a thought --- did you look into "Relocated Items"?

https://www.macrumors.com/guide/relocated-items/

AFAIR, the upgrade did not shove any of my X11-related files into that
folder, but maybe it was different for you.

regards, tom lane
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Re: Operation not permitted

[Gustaf Olsson via X11-users]

I am going to assume that this is a Mac issue and hence a XQuartz problem?

If this is a Mac issues, for some reason after updating to Catalina I found my 
X11 folder moved to my desktop under a “old files” folder (my computer does not 
speak english so a rough translation). I had to re-install XQuarts to get all 
the functionalities I use to work correctly after updating.

Hope this helps

> On 18 Oct 2019, at 08:45, Tom Lane via X11-users  
> wrote:
> 
> David L Chopp via X11-users  writes:
>> I upgraded to Catalina and now I’m getting “Operation not permitted” when 
>> doing a simple “ls” command in my Desktop directory. Oddly enough, “ls" 
>> works fine in my home directory, just not any directories below that. I 
>> understand this is a casualty of the new SIP settings. I tried giving 
>> XQuartz full disk access in the privacy settings, but that didn’t help. Any 
>> ideas?
> 
> Have you tried re-installing XQuartz?  That's my go-to solution for
> permissions issues, and I typically find that I have to do it after
> any major OS upgrade.
> 
> FWIW, I've had no problems with XQuartz under Catalina, except for
> having to do the aforementioned reinstall.  But I run with SIP off
> (for reasons unrelated to X11), so maybe that's not a relevant
> data point for you.
> 
>   regards, tom lane
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Re: Operation not permitted

[Tom Lane via X11-users]

David L Chopp via X11-users  writes:
> I upgraded to Catalina and now I’m getting “Operation not permitted” when 
> doing a simple “ls” command in my Desktop directory. Oddly enough, “ls" works 
> fine in my home directory, just not any directories below that. I understand 
> this is a casualty of the new SIP settings. I tried giving XQuartz full disk 
> access in the privacy settings, but that didn’t help. Any ideas?

Have you tried re-installing XQuartz?  That's my go-to solution for
permissions issues, and I typically find that I have to do it after
any major OS upgrade.

FWIW, I've had no problems with XQuartz under Catalina, except for
having to do the aforementioned reinstall.  But I run with SIP off
(for reasons unrelated to X11), so maybe that's not a relevant
data point for you.

regards, tom lane
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Re: Operation not permitted

[Douglas Berry via X11-users]

I'm in the same boat.  I have added launchd_startx, ls, Xquartz, xterm, 
and my shell to full disk access, none helped.  Catalina, calamity.

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Re: Operation not permitted

[JF Mezei via X11-users]

Some time ago, in a newsgroud discussion, there was a discussion about
file access for line commands. I don't recall the specifics because
discussion quickly turned to insults,  but there are some under-the-hood
inheritances.

I am sticking to High Sierra, so not affected by this.

There is a process inheritance issue.

The "ls" (or any other) command is a subprocess created by bash (or
whatever shell you use such as sh).

But how bash/sh is created is not so clear.

Consider this:

from terminal.app window under GUI user ABC, you can issue the command:
xterm -e login &

an xterm window is created (assume under user ABC) with the login
process. That login process then creates a bash (or sh) process under
the user DEF. Does that process inherit any special attributes from ABC?

It isn't clear to me whom bash/ls inherit any special file access flags
from (since not clear to me at what level OS-X implemented these
restrictions).

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Re: Operation not permitted

[JAMES R CUTLER via X11-users]

Dave,

With a Finder window open, use the menu bar Go > Go to Folder… and enter the 
desired path, such as /opt.

James R. Cutler
james.cut...@consultant.com
GPG keys: hkps://hkps.pool.sks-keyservers.net



> On Oct 17, 2019, at 5:18 PM, David L Chopp  wrote:
> 
> I hadn’t tried that, but I have now. No luck, no change. I didn’t think of 
> trying Terminal because I normally use xterm through XQuartz. I tried adding 
> xterm to Full Disk Access, but the only way I could find to add it is through 
> a finder window and I don’t know how to navigate the finder into /opt where 
> the app is. Maybe there’s a command line way to add full disk access, but I 
> don’t know what that is. I’ll try digging around for that.
> 
> Dave
>  
> 
>> On Oct 17, 2019, at 4:08 PM, JAMES R CUTLER > <mailto:james.cut...@mac.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Have you given Terminal.app full disk access? The failing command is a shell 
>> command.
>> 
>> James R. Cutler
>> james.cut...@consultant.com <mailto:james.cut...@consultant.com>
>> GPG keys: hkps://hkps.pool.sks-keyservers.net 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 17, 2019, at 4:31 PM, David L Chopp via X11-users 
>>> mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> 
>>> I upgraded to Catalina and now I’m getting “Operation not permitted” when 
>>> doing a simple “ls” command in my Desktop directory. Oddly enough, “ls" 
>>> works fine in my home directory, just not any directories below that. I 
>>> understand this is a casualty of the new SIP settings. I tried giving 
>>> XQuartz full disk access in the privacy settings, but that didn’t help. Any 
>>> ideas?
>>> 
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Pure mathematics is the world's best game.  It is more absorbing than 
>>> chess, more of a gamble than poker, and lasts longer than Monopoly.  It's 
>>> free.  It can be played anywhere - Archimedes did it in a bathtub.  
>>> ~Richard 
>>> J. Trudeau
>>> 
>>> 
>>> David Chopp
>>> Chair
>>> Engineering Sciences and Applied Mathematics
>>> Northwestern University
>>> E-mail: ch...@northwestern.edu <mailto:ch...@northwestern.edu>
>>> Phone: (847)-491-8391
>>> Fax: (847)-491-2178
>>> Homepage: http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp 
>>> <http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp>
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> <mailto:X11-users@lists.apple.com>)
>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: 
>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/x11-users/james.cutler%40mac.com 
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>>> 
>>> This email sent to james.cut...@mac.com <mailto:james.cut...@mac.com>
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nature laughs at the difficulties of integration.  ~Pierre-Simon de Leplace
> 
> 
> David Chopp
> Chair
> Engineering Sciences and Applied Mathematics
> Northwestern University
> E-mail: ch...@northwestern.edu <mailto:ch...@northwestern.edu>
> Phone: (847)-491-8391
> Fax: (847)-491-2178
> Homepage: http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp
> 
> 

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Re: Operation not permitted

[Mike Thornburg (mthorn) via X11-users]

There's a question on StackOverflow about giving some version of Emacs full 
disk access
that seems like it might be applicable here.  Among other things, it says you 
can add
programs from /usr/bin to Full Disk Access if you use Shift+Command+Period to 
make the
Finder display all hidden files.  You should be able to do the same thing to 
make /opt
visible.



Mike

> On Oct 17, 2019, at 2:49 PM, David L Chopp via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don’t believe it will be required for each command. What I’ve found on the 
> web about this is focused on using Terminal.app and not XQuartz and that the 
> solution was to give Terminal.app Full Disk Access. So I figured giving 
> XQuartz the same access would do the trick, but it didn’t. Fortunately, I 
> mostly use XQuartz to access xwindows on remote machines, so I don’t have 
> problems doing that, just when I randomly want to do a file transfer I’m kind 
> of stuck.
> 
>> On Oct 17, 2019, at 4:33 PM, Ambrose LI  wrote:
>> 
>> Le jeu. 17 oct. 2019, à 17 h 19, David L Chopp via X11-users
>>  a écrit :
>>> 
>>> I hadn’t tried that, but I have now. No luck, no change. I didn’t think of 
>>> trying Terminal because I normally use xterm through XQuartz. I tried 
>>> adding xterm to Full Disk Access, but the only way I could find to add it 
>>> is through a finder window and I don’t know how to navigate the finder into 
>>> /opt where the app is. Maybe there’s a command line way to add full disk 
>>> access, but I don’t know what that is. I’ll try digging around for that.
>> 
>> I don’t have the new OS but could it be that you’ll actually need to
>> give ls full access? I don’t know how the new permission system works
>> but ls and the terminal (whether xterm or Terminal.app) are separate
>> programs.
>> 
>> (If this works that will be a nightmare for shell users since that
>> means every single command will need to be set up with additional
>> access...)
>> 
>> -- 
>> Ambrose Li // 
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__o.gniw.ca=DwIFaQ=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws=sjzaGtg7C2D6R0XvtC2BTUfH9cefWyJP0GWS3iqyL7w=Z_6zKbG0-Ql2mhs5S-7FHim9800LGH5mY_A4n2qbE_0=fbfK2Nn7bAyoHxuxIyf7VZB7dvmhkYC8LwbTtOfIB0Q=
>>   / 
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gniw.ca=DwIFaQ=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws=sjzaGtg7C2D6R0XvtC2BTUfH9cefWyJP0GWS3iqyL7w=Z_6zKbG0-Ql2mhs5S-7FHim9800LGH5mY_A4n2qbE_0=Dv6nmJPLkfCkS7NJJkvWqm1XjBjDWxbfZoSsureP0nQ=
>>  
>> If you saw this on CE-L: You do not need my permission to quote
>> me, only proper attribution. Always cite your sources, even if
>> you have to anonymize and/or cite it as "personal communication".
> 
> 
> 
> God does not care about our mathematical difficulties; He integrates 
> empirically.  ~Albert Einstein
> 
> 
> David Chopp
> Chair
> Engineering Sciences and Applied Mathematics
> Northwestern University
> E-mail: ch...@northwestern.edu
> Phone: (847)-491-8391
> Fax: (847)-491-2178
> Homepage: http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp
> 
> 
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Re: Operation not permitted

[David L Chopp via X11-users]

I don’t believe it will be required for each command. What I’ve found on the 
web about this is focused on using Terminal.app and not XQuartz and that the 
solution was to give Terminal.app Full Disk Access. So I figured giving XQuartz 
the same access would do the trick, but it didn’t. Fortunately, I mostly use 
XQuartz to access xwindows on remote machines, so I don’t have problems doing 
that, just when I randomly want to do a file transfer I’m kind of stuck.

On Oct 17, 2019, at 4:33 PM, Ambrose LI 
mailto:ambrose...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Le jeu. 17 oct. 2019, à 17 h 19, David L Chopp via X11-users
mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> a écrit :

I hadn’t tried that, but I have now. No luck, no change. I didn’t think of 
trying Terminal because I normally use xterm through XQuartz. I tried adding 
xterm to Full Disk Access, but the only way I could find to add it is through a 
finder window and I don’t know how to navigate the finder into /opt where the 
app is. Maybe there’s a command line way to add full disk access, but I don’t 
know what that is. I’ll try digging around for that.

I don’t have the new OS but could it be that you’ll actually need to
give ls full access? I don’t know how the new permission system works
but ls and the terminal (whether xterm or Terminal.app) are separate
programs.

(If this works that will be a nightmare for shell users since that
means every single command will need to be set up with additional
access...)

--
Ambrose Li // 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__o.gniw.ca=DwIFaQ=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws=sjzaGtg7C2D6R0XvtC2BTUfH9cefWyJP0GWS3iqyL7w=Z_6zKbG0-Ql2mhs5S-7FHim9800LGH5mY_A4n2qbE_0=fbfK2Nn7bAyoHxuxIyf7VZB7dvmhkYC8LwbTtOfIB0Q=
  / 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gniw.ca=DwIFaQ=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws=sjzaGtg7C2D6R0XvtC2BTUfH9cefWyJP0GWS3iqyL7w=Z_6zKbG0-Ql2mhs5S-7FHim9800LGH5mY_A4n2qbE_0=Dv6nmJPLkfCkS7NJJkvWqm1XjBjDWxbfZoSsureP0nQ=
If you saw this on CE-L: You do not need my permission to quote
me, only proper attribution. Always cite your sources, even if
you have to anonymize and/or cite it as "personal communication".



God does not care about our mathematical difficulties; He integrates
empirically.  ~Albert Einstein


David Chopp
Chair
Engineering Sciences and Applied Mathematics
Northwestern University
E-mail: ch...@northwestern.edu
Phone: (847)-491-8391
Fax: (847)-491-2178
Homepage: http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp


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Re: Operation not permitted

[Ambrose LI via X11-users]

Le jeu. 17 oct. 2019, à 17 h 19, David L Chopp via X11-users
 a écrit :
>
> I hadn’t tried that, but I have now. No luck, no change. I didn’t think of 
> trying Terminal because I normally use xterm through XQuartz. I tried adding 
> xterm to Full Disk Access, but the only way I could find to add it is through 
> a finder window and I don’t know how to navigate the finder into /opt where 
> the app is. Maybe there’s a command line way to add full disk access, but I 
> don’t know what that is. I’ll try digging around for that.

I don’t have the new OS but could it be that you’ll actually need to
give ls full access? I don’t know how the new permission system works
but ls and the terminal (whether xterm or Terminal.app) are separate
programs.

(If this works that will be a nightmare for shell users since that
means every single command will need to be set up with additional
access...)

-- 
Ambrose Li // http://o.gniw.ca / http://gniw.ca
If you saw this on CE-L: You do not need my permission to quote
me, only proper attribution. Always cite your sources, even if
you have to anonymize and/or cite it as "personal communication".
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Re: Operation not permitted

[JAMES R CUTLER via X11-users]

Have you given Terminal.app full disk access? The failing command is a shell 
command.

James R. Cutler
james.cut...@consultant.com
GPG keys: hkps://hkps.pool.sks-keyservers.net



> On Oct 17, 2019, at 4:31 PM, David L Chopp via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I upgraded to Catalina and now I’m getting “Operation not permitted” when 
> doing a simple “ls” command in my Desktop directory. Oddly enough, “ls" works 
> fine in my home directory, just not any directories below that. I understand 
> this is a casualty of the new SIP settings. I tried giving XQuartz full disk 
> access in the privacy settings, but that didn’t help. Any ideas?
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> Pure mathematics is the world's best game.  It is more absorbing than 
> chess, more of a gamble than poker, and lasts longer than Monopoly.  It's 
> free.  It can be played anywhere - Archimedes did it in a bathtub.  ~Richard 
> J. Trudeau
> 
> 
> David Chopp
> Chair
> Engineering Sciences and Applied Mathematics
> Northwestern University
> E-mail: ch...@northwestern.edu <mailto:ch...@northwestern.edu>
> Phone: (847)-491-8391
> Fax: (847)-491-2178
> Homepage: http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp
> 
> 
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Operation not permitted

[David L Chopp via X11-users]

Hi everyone,

I upgraded to Catalina and now I’m getting “Operation not permitted” when doing 
a simple “ls” command in my Desktop directory. Oddly enough, “ls" works fine in 
my home directory, just not any directories below that. I understand this is a 
casualty of the new SIP settings. I tried giving XQuartz full disk access in 
the privacy settings, but that didn’t help. Any ideas?

Dave



Pure mathematics is the world's best game.  It is more absorbing than
chess, more of a gamble than poker, and lasts longer than Monopoly.  It's
free.  It can be played anywhere - Archimedes did it in a bathtub.  ~Richard
J. Trudeau


David Chopp
Chair
Engineering Sciences and Applied Mathematics
Northwestern University
E-mail: ch...@northwestern.edu<mailto:ch...@northwestern.edu>
Phone: (847)-491-8391
Fax: (847)-491-2178
Homepage: http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp


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