Re: Yet another mostly happy user

[Carlton Gibson]

On 5 May 2008, at 18:00, Luis Roca wrote:


Carlton,
You've inspired me. I'm planning a trip to the
Bronx Zoo in the next few weeks. : )



Glad to be of service. Have fun! :-)

C

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Re: Yet another mostly happy user

[cubic . archon]

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Luis Roca
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  You're definitely not alone in your hesitance to use tags. David said
>  this weekend that humans are spacial thinkers. Which is why stuffing
>  things into an established hierarchy makes more sense than tags. While
>  it's true that - some - people are spacial thinkers, there are also
>  people who are relational, oral, experiential, and a number of other
>  types of thinkers.

Of course, even being a "spatial thinker" can mean a lot of things. I
consider myself in that category, but I love tags - I visualise tagged
items as objects in Venn diagram sets.

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Re: I use Yojimbo for..

[cubic . archon]

My system keeps changing, but at the moment...

Folders - I maintain very broad categories of folder, which are really
only used for the drop box panel. They correspond to the answer to the
question "why am I storing this?" Is it for future reference, research
material to be examined later, a random thought I've had myself, or an
asset that I am trying to create for use elsewhere (e.g. a piece of
documentation)? Sometimes if I'm doing an awful lot of dragging and
dropping from Safari I'll set up a temporary folder for a project, but
I'll tag the contents and delete the folder afterwards.

Tags - most of the classification is done with tags. Material for an
individual project is defined by a combination of one or more tags,
and for all of the current ones, there's a tag folder, prefixed by "."
so that they all go to the top of the list. I used to file projects in
folders, but when you delete a folder you can never find out what was
in it again, and I can never tell when I might need to look at an old
project once more.

(I find it useful to maintain a list of the tags that get applied to
individual projects - I've been experimenting with prefixing all
"project code" tags with "p.", but it's not proved worth it yet.)

Oh, there are also tag folders for "todo" and "idea", though I do most
of my task management with Todoist or Taskpaper. "todo" tagged items
are usually reference data which won't fit anywhere else.

Flags - a flagged item is just one I can get to with the "Flagged
Items" list. It doesn't mean anything more than "I use this a lot" or
"I should pay attention to this" - if I findmyself looking for that
item a lot, I'll flag it, if I find I'm not, I'll remove the flag.

Labels - I don't really use these a lot except as decoration. There
may be a good way to use them - they've got the advantage of being
very visually distinctive - but if there is one I don't know what it
is. Also, they're a bit hard to export if it ever comes down to that.

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Re: Yet another mostly happy user

[Luis Roca]

Scott M.
I have to say your use of Yojimbo as an everyday GTD tool is pretty
impressive. Just the ambition to try and use it that way is impressive.
I don’t really see that as the purpose of Yojimbo. (It’s really just
considered an archival application.) That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be
used to do other creative things. I just find that using it as a central
GTD application can be difficult at best. I also don’t think very highly
of the majority of project planner/GTD applications so take that into
consideration.

I read and re-read your post. I find your system impressive but very
confusing to me. (Which is ok because it’s YOUR system. As long as it
works for you.) I’ve never been fully comfortable with the directory
method of organizing information. The reason I was so drawn to Yojimbo
was because it thinks the way I do. (In a much more contextual manner.)

You’re definitely not alone in your hesitance to use tags. David said
this weekend that humans are spacial thinkers. Which is why stuffing
things into an established hierarchy makes more sense than tags. While
it’s true that - some - people are spacial thinkers, there are also
people who are relational, oral, experiential, and a number of other
types of thinkers.

Tags, tag collections, smart folders, labels, and comments all offer the
ability to create multiple contexts and I really like that. That’s how
Yojimbo was designed to organize information. I realize it’s not for
everyone (apparently not the spacial thinkers) but they have a whole lot
of options out there to suit there needs perfectly well.

Carlton,
You've inspired me. I'm planning a trip to the 
Bronx Zoo in the next few weeks. : )

Luis


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Re: Tag Collections not treated the same as 'regular' Collections

[Luis Roca]

I like this idea alot.

> I think that it would be natural to expect either that if you drag an
item
> into a tag collection, it would be automatically tagged as to fit in
that
> collection.

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Re: I use Yojimbo for..

[Sean Chou]

This is a great idea! I've always wondered how folks use Yojimbo and
approach data management in general. Although we all have our pet
requests, I'm sure the vast majority of us incorporated deeply into
our workflow.

For me, data management falls into one of the following (constantly
shifting as I try to improve and products come along/get better)
buckets (in order of preference):

TaskPaper (tagged for context) - for all tasks

Yojimbo (heavily tagged) - for all loose text, code snippets, most
PDFs, images that don't go into iPhoto, serials, passwords, lately
also important emails

iPhoto (heavily tagged) - for all personal photos, wallpaper, screen
captures (other than a single screen shot which goes into Yojimbo
now), personal videos

iTunes (heavily categorized, clean metadata - tag like) - for all
music and 3rd party videos

File system (half heartedly tagged) - for files that don't go into
Yojimbo (mostly presentations, Word, Xmind, source code, , PDFs that
just seem too large, PDFs that are commented

Entourage - for email and most attachments

What I've found is that I'd love to just shove most things into
Yojimbo for the sake of being able to find all things related to a tag
or union/intersection of tags, but realize that would look
suspiciously like a file manager. Leap may work well except it doesn't
seem to interact with Yojimbo.

I also often wonder how others use the features of Yojimbo to help
with their workflow. Between tags, folders, labels, flags, and
comments, there are a plethora of approaches. Yet Yojimbo, perhaps due
to the discipline of the Bare Bones team, remains aesthetically
pleasing. IMO, EagleFiler is a bit cluttery and Together just doesn't
quite flow right (although I do like it a lot). Personally, I think
Evernote is the most promising up and comer.

Anyway, to get back to my Yojimbo system:

Tags - categorizes the data (and sometimes, why I'm storing it -
howto, reference, etc.)

Flags - for things I'm actively working on or need to otherwise pay attention to

Folders - for organizing data against a project (i.e. research for an
essay or presentation)

Comments - comments about the data usually the source if other than my work

Labels - I've had the toughest time here because I originally wanted
to use it for "why I'm storing it" but it hasn't stuck for some
reason. I think the colors are too much when used too liberally. I
guess I don't really use labels much.

Information gets captured via a shortcut key and the input panel (I
dislike the drop dock and have disabled them) or a capture script (for
things like capturing from Entourage or Safari). I tag it, add a
source comment if needed, and flag it if appropriate.

Then I periodically go through, retagging, deleting, and otherwise
sorting/shuffling. Rinse. Repeat.

On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Luis Roca
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I want to start a positive thread on what interesting things everyone
>  > uses Yojimbo for.. Maybe everyone could post one interesting thing
>  > they use the application for, we all might find some new uses..
=

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Re: Tag Collections not treated the same as 'regular' Collections (was: The Real Issue With Nested Folders and Multiple Databases.)

[infrahile]

On 5 May 2008, at 16:45, Bill Rowe wrote:
What would happen if the tag collection had several tags associated  
with it? Would you assign all of the available tags to an item  
dragged to that collection?



That's exactly what I'd expect it to do, I don't see what the problem  
is. For example, I have a number of web archives currently tagged with  
'article' 'to read' and 'projectname'  - when I've read one I'll  
delete it's 'to read' tag and when 'projectname' is over I'll delete  
that tag too leaving me with 'article' and whatever other descriptives  
I've given it. Being able to add those first three tags in one shot  
would be a nice little timesaver.


Cheers, T.

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Re: Any way to edit a tag?

[cubic . archon]

On Mon, 05 May 2008 07:22:49 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> Okay, I remembered that there was a window somewhere with a list of  
> tags, and I dug around it and found it in preferences. So if I were to  
> create a tag for each project, I could view the list of projects here.  
> Seems a little odd but I could get used to that.
> 
> But in that case I'd like to be able to add a prefix to a tag as soon  
> as the project is completed, to drop it to the bottom of that list and  
> keep only the active projects on top. Is there a way to edit a tag  
> once you've created it so that it will be changed everywhere? Or would  
> I have to type the new tag and delete the old one for every note?
> 
> Scott Marley
> 

I have an Applescript which adds tags, remove tags or changes one tag to
another within selected items - I've found this immensely useful, as I'm
never happy with my tags and am always changing them.

I've only just recently rejoined this list so I'm not sure whether there
is a repository for user Applescripts at the moment, but I'd be happy to
put it there if there is one. Otherwise I can upload it when I get home.

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Re: Tag Collections not treated the same as 'regular' Collections (was: The Real Issue With Nested Folders and Multiple Databases.)

[david]

Bill - good question  and the answer becomes more complex as our  
ability to search on tags becomes more complex. A tag collection with  
one tag item or a multiple search involving AND it would be pretty  
easy to alert the user to the definition and offer to append the  
collection tags, change the dropped items to have those tags, or  
cancel. But if the tag collection involves an OR search all bets are  
off.


david

On May 5, 2008, at 11:45 AM, Bill Rowe wrote:


On 5/5/08 at 7:23 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paulo Diniz) wrote:


I think that it would be natural to expect either that if you drag
an item into a tag collection, it would be automatically tagged as
to fit in that collection.


What would happen if the tag collection had several tags associated  
with it? Would you assign all of the available tags to an item  
dragged to that collection? This certainly wouldn't be what I would  
want in general. And if you don't have all of the tags assigned to  
the dragged item, how would you have Yojimbo decide which tags to  
assign to the item?


I believe there are good reasons for not having tags automatically  
assigned.


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Re: Tag Collections not treated the same as 'regular' Collections (was: The Real Issue With Nested Folders and Multiple Databases.)

[Bill Rowe]

On 5/5/08 at 7:23 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paulo Diniz) wrote:


I think that it would be natural to expect either that if you drag
an item into a tag collection, it would be automatically tagged as
to fit in that collection.


What would happen if the tag collection had several tags 
associated with it? Would you assign all of the available tags 
to an item dragged to that collection? This certainly wouldn't 
be what I would want in general. And if you don't have all of 
the tags assigned to the dragged item, how would you have 
Yojimbo decide which tags to assign to the item?


I believe there are good reasons for not having tags 
automatically assigned.


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Re: Yet another mostly happy user

[Claude]

Very interesting : thanks ! I love tags... but I still need to SEE all  
my files in folders (like in ancient times...) But I never go further  
than one nested folder by main folder (sorry for my bad english, hope  
you will understand).

Claude


Le 5 mai 08 à 16:11, Steve Kalkwarf a écrit :

I agree completely with your mail. Sometimes I am afraid to forget  
some items because I don't remember all the tags' name. I really  
need tags and folders.
I try Eaglefiler (nested folders AND tags) : it tastes like  
Yojimbo, but it is not Yojimbo - but looks fine too.


I've seen several people mention that they are afraid if they forget  
a tag, they'll lose an item. I don't understand.


Both Tags and Collections are aids in retrieving items. They are not  
the only way to retreive an item: They provide additional context  
for the item so that you can find it more easily.


I typically search for the content or title of an item when I want  
to fetch a specific item.


I have a small number of Collections present that remind me there  
are things I need to work on, containing tagged and untagged items  
related to that task.


I have a slightly larger number of Tag Collections defined. I use  
these to A) visually group items together for a specific task, or B)  
invert a relationship so I can see things by their Tag instead of  
trying to remember all the items.


But most of my items just live in the Library. I hate organizing.

Steve




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Re: Any way to edit a tag?

[Steve Kalkwarf]

But in that case I'd like to be able to add a prefix to a tag 
as soon as the project is completed, to drop it to the bottom 
of that list and keep only the active projects on top. Is there 
a way to edit a tag once you've created it so that it will be 
changed everywhere? Or would I have to type the new tag and 
delete the old one for every note?


In today's software, tags can not be renamed. Without really 
watching you work, I think I'd recommend just adding a 
"completed" tag to the items. So, as a simple example, say 
you're moving homes. The list of tasks might look something like this:


Find new home
Cancel old lease
Move
Notify electric company
Notify phone company
Notify internet provider
File change of address forms

I'd start with a tag: "moving" and apply it as I created these items.

Find new home I'd hit with an additional tag: "property"

As I went through the classifieds or realtor ads, I'd grab web 
archives of interesting homes, and tag them with "moving" and "property"


At some point, I'd realize I was searching for "moving" an awful 
lot, and I'd create a temporary "Moving" Tag Collection.


After settling on a property, I'd likely search the "Moving" Tag 
Collection for "property" tags, and delete all the items except 
the one I chose, and the anchor task. I'd add a "complete" Tag 
to "Find new home".


and so on.

When I was all settled, I'd delete the temporary "Moving" Tag 
Collection, and forget all about them.


If I decided to move again, I could start over with a search for "moving"...

Steve


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Re: Yet another mostly happy user

[Steve Kalkwarf]

I agree completely with your mail. Sometimes I am afraid to 
forget some items because I don't remember all the tags' name. 
I really need tags and folders.
I try Eaglefiler (nested folders AND tags) : it tastes like 
Yojimbo, but it is not Yojimbo - but looks fine too.


I've seen several people mention that they are afraid if they 
forget a tag, they'll lose an item. I don't understand.


Both Tags and Collections are aids in retrieving items. They are 
not the only way to retreive an item: They provide additional 
context for the item so that you can find it more easily.


I typically search for the content or title of an item when I 
want to fetch a specific item.


I have a small number of Collections present that remind me 
there are things I need to work on, containing tagged and 
untagged items related to that task.


I have a slightly larger number of Tag Collections defined. I 
use these to A) visually group items together for a specific 
task, or B) invert a relationship so I can see things by their 
Tag instead of trying to remember all the items.


But most of my items just live in the Library. I hate organizing.

Steve



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Re: Yet another mostly happy user

[Claude]

I agree completely with your mail. Sometimes I am afraid to forget  
some items because I don't remember all the tags' name. I really need  
tags and folders.
I try Eaglefiler (nested folders AND tags) : it tastes like Yojimbo,  
but it is not Yojimbo - but looks fine too.

And I am still an almost happy user !

Claude


Le 5 mai 08 à 14:22, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :

I'm another mostly happy Yojimbo user who would be even happier with  
nested folders. Well, that and being able to sync my notes to my  
iPhone -- hopefully that will come soon enough.

...


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Re: Read only entries

[Verdon Vaillancourt]

On 5-May-08, at 7:23 AM, Lawrence J Winkler wrote:


I would like the flexibiity to make entries read-only: a toggle Read-
Only/Edit -- no password to toggle from one to the other state.  Just
something to protect my entries from me.


I'll second and third that. It would be hugely beneficial to me!

verdon


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Tag Collections not treated the same as 'regular' Collections (was: The Real Issue With Nested Folders and Multiple Databases.)

[Paulo Diniz]

I forgot to say, one thing that bothers me a bit in Yojimbo is that Tag
Collections are not treated the same way as 'regular' Collections, in the
sense that you can't drag and drop stuff into a Tag Collecion as you can do
with a regular Collection.

I think that it would be natural to expect either that if you drag an item
into a tag collection, it would be automatically tagged as to fit in that
collection.

Cheers,

-Paulo

On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Paulo Diniz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Great discussion here, I'm pretty sure that it isn't the purpose of the
> list, but i think it`s important to discuss organization methods. Like said
> below, we're so busy most of the time dealing with what is given to us (a
> third of the time, or whatever) and also actually DOING stuff, that we don't
> take the time to step back and think outside of the box on what's really
> needed to sort the mess of our lives.
>
> I, for one, am still searching for my ultimate system, and have, in the
> past, written drafts/specs of an ideal organization software. Those drafts
> are availiable at:
>
> http://notariussystem.blogspot.com/
>
> My most recent post (the only recent post, that is) offers a good abstract
> of what i'm searching for. If anyone is interested enough, please take a
> look on it. As time goes, i plan to detail it further.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Paulo
>
>
> On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Luis Roca <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Keith
> > I'm not getting a sense that your sincerely happy for me. Maybe I'm just
> > a little insecure. I don't know but this is neither the time or the
> > place for that discussion. : )
> >
> > Scott responded to this but since you directed it at me it's only fair
> > that I give you an answer. I N-E-V-E-R said I use or would suggest to
> > use Yojimbo as a total GTD tool. There is NO total GTD tool, not
> > OmniFocus, not Things, not kGTD, not Entourage, etc. You're right
> > Yojimbo is part of my system (the archive). That's all any piece of
> > software can hope to be, a part of a complete system. This is
> > repeated throughout the book beginning in the preface.
> >
> > There are people on this list that use Yojimbo as their primary process
> > and review tool within their daily GTDing. I'm honestly not sure how
> > effective it can be over a long period of time but I'd love to hear more
> > about it.
> >
> > > Everything else ends up in the *correct* folder.
> > >
> > > There is such a thing as the *correct* folder  as there are such
> > > things as objective hierarchies -- ones which capture real
> > > relationships between things. You can think of genus-species
> > > groupings in biology, or project-file groupings in your work. Where
> > > such groupings exist, a hierarchical file structure has real value,
> > > but they take some thinking about to be stable/valuable-- which is
> > > why the profession of 'librarian' exists for one.
> >
> > Carlton,
> > You make excellent points and I find it interesting that you're using
> > Yojimbo as an inbox where you go back to identify/process the
> > information at a later date. It's much different than how I use it and
> > seems like a solid system. You hit at the initial point that I was
> > trying to make which was the importance of the initial identification
> > process of a digital asset.
> >
> > I do have to respectfully disagree with the idea of a *correct* folder.
> > I'm not saying it doesn't exist or can't be part of a larger
> > organizational system. I just think this method can easily (and often
> > does) break down when a second user is introduced to the system.
> >
> > Everyone on this list has probably had the uncomfortable sensation of
> > starting a new job and being welcomed with a new folder structure to
> > learn. Your'e at the mercy of whoever decided on the file and folder
> > naming structure (Who may not even be with the company anymore).
> > Tags,notes/comments, saved searches, etc. offer a solution that tech
> > savy librarians and information architects have been promoting recently.
> >(*See : "Ambient Findability" by Peter Morville and
> >"Keeping Found Things Found" by William Jones)
> >
> > Anyone and everyone can name an item without stepping on your coworker
> > or boss' toes. You name an item in a meaningful way to you, and others
> > get to do the same. A new employee can find a file in a shorter period
> > of time and without having to shamefully ask her cubicle mate when
> > searching for file 03.5248-Financials.doc that's buried in a seven level
> > folder structure on the external corporate database.
> >
> > I've read that the average professional spends a third of their week
> > looking for information that they have previously encountered! So as
> > well as folders have worked for some people, more fluid systems need to
> > be put in place for the rest of us.
> >
> > I've helped turn this into exactly what I didn't want
> > - The Continuing Saga of Nested Folders -
> > It en

Re: The Real Issue With Nested Folders and Multiple Databases.

[Paulo Diniz]

Great discussion here, I'm pretty sure that it isn't the purpose of the
list, but i think it`s important to discuss organization methods. Like said
below, we're so busy most of the time dealing with what is given to us (a
third of the time, or whatever) and also actually DOING stuff, that we don't
take the time to step back and think outside of the box on what's really
needed to sort the mess of our lives.

I, for one, am still searching for my ultimate system, and have, in the
past, written drafts/specs of an ideal organization software. Those drafts
are availiable at:

http://notariussystem.blogspot.com/

My most recent post (the only recent post, that is) offers a good abstract
of what i'm searching for. If anyone is interested enough, please take a
look on it. As time goes, i plan to detail it further.

Cheers,

-Paulo

On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Luis Roca <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Keith
> I'm not getting a sense that your sincerely happy for me. Maybe I'm just
> a little insecure. I don't know but this is neither the time or the
> place for that discussion. : )
>
> Scott responded to this but since you directed it at me it's only fair
> that I give you an answer. I N-E-V-E-R said I use or would suggest to
> use Yojimbo as a total GTD tool. There is NO total GTD tool, not
> OmniFocus, not Things, not kGTD, not Entourage, etc. You're right
> Yojimbo is part of my system (the archive). That's all any piece of
> software can hope to be, a part of a complete system. This is
> repeated throughout the book beginning in the preface.
>
> There are people on this list that use Yojimbo as their primary process
> and review tool within their daily GTDing. I'm honestly not sure how
> effective it can be over a long period of time but I'd love to hear more
> about it.
>
> > Everything else ends up in the *correct* folder.
> >
> > There is such a thing as the *correct* folder  as there are such
> > things as objective hierarchies -- ones which capture real
> > relationships between things. You can think of genus-species
> > groupings in biology, or project-file groupings in your work. Where
> > such groupings exist, a hierarchical file structure has real value,
> > but they take some thinking about to be stable/valuable-- which is
> > why the profession of 'librarian' exists for one.
>
> Carlton,
> You make excellent points and I find it interesting that you're using
> Yojimbo as an inbox where you go back to identify/process the
> information at a later date. It's much different than how I use it and
> seems like a solid system. You hit at the initial point that I was
> trying to make which was the importance of the initial identification
> process of a digital asset.
>
> I do have to respectfully disagree with the idea of a *correct* folder.
> I'm not saying it doesn't exist or can't be part of a larger
> organizational system. I just think this method can easily (and often
> does) break down when a second user is introduced to the system.
>
> Everyone on this list has probably had the uncomfortable sensation of
> starting a new job and being welcomed with a new folder structure to
> learn. Your'e at the mercy of whoever decided on the file and folder
> naming structure (Who may not even be with the company anymore).
> Tags,notes/comments, saved searches, etc. offer a solution that tech
> savy librarians and information architects have been promoting recently.
>(*See : "Ambient Findability" by Peter Morville and
>"Keeping Found Things Found" by William Jones)
>
> Anyone and everyone can name an item without stepping on your coworker
> or boss' toes. You name an item in a meaningful way to you, and others
> get to do the same. A new employee can find a file in a shorter period
> of time and without having to shamefully ask her cubicle mate when
> searching for file 03.5248-Financials.doc that's buried in a seven level
> folder structure on the external corporate database.
>
> I've read that the average professional spends a third of their week
> looking for information that they have previously encountered! So as
> well as folders have worked for some people, more fluid systems need to
> be put in place for the rest of us.
>
> I've helped turn this into exactly what I didn't want
> - The Continuing Saga of Nested Folders -
> It ends here!
> : ) Luis
>
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Read only entries

[Lawrence J Winkler]

On the subject of features I would like in Yojimbo, though I did  
mention it several years ago.  Just a reminder and perhaps an answer  
from the developers on whether it would really be considered.


I would like the flexibiity to make entries read-only: a toggle Read- 
Only/Edit -- no password to toggle from one to the other state.  Just  
something to protect my entries from me.


Thanks
---
Larry Winkler
5306 Loruth Ter
Madison Wisconsin 53711
Phone: 608-274-0414
Mobile: 608-345-0627
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


On May 3, 2008, at 4:06 AM, Yojimbo-Talk List wrote:


   Yojimbo-Talk List Digest #681

1) Re: The Real Issue With Nested Folders and Multiple Databases.
   by Keith Ledbetter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Almost happy with Yojimbo the way it is
   by infrahile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: The Real Issue With Nested Folders and Multiple Databases.
   by "Scott J. Lopez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: The Real Issue With Nested Folders and Multiple Databases.
   by "Robertson Dale A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) I use Yojimbo for..
   by "Scott J. Lopez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: The Real Issue With Nested Folders and Multiple Databases.
   by infrahile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: I use Yojimbo for..
   by Carlton Gibson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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From: Keith Ledbetter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: May 2, 2008 3:08:03 PM CDT
Subject: Re: The Real Issue With Nested Folders and Multiple  
Databases.




On May 2, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Luis Roca wrote:

Lorin and Kenneth identified the real issue very well. I think a  
lot of

the discomfort with not having nested folders is due to a habit of
putting off properly identifying an item. We keep bringing up the  
book

“Getting Things Done” but the idea of nested folders and multiple
library databases are in stark contrast to the very first steps of  
GTD.

Folders poorly identify information. At best they just create more
inboxes. Because you haven’t properly identified the specific item  
you
will waste more time searching six weeks down the road when you  
need to

produce a receipt, or email the photo of your family eating pizza in
Times Square to your sister. Tagging is a far more fluid way to  
identify

something at the very moment it enters your system.


Luis, we're all really, really happy that Yojimbo is "perfect" for  
your way of gathering information.  But it's quite pompous of you to  
think that everyone else is wrong because we like to sometimes  
organize our data in physical divisions.


And, repeat after me, YOJIMBO IS NOT A GTD TOOL.  It is a digital  
junk drawer; a tool that you have just been lucky enough to be able  
to "fit" into the GTD principles.


Keith




From: infrahile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: May 2, 2008 3:47:52 PM CDT
Subject: Re: Almost happy with Yojimbo the way it is


Thanks for your response Steve, great to have some direct answers  
from the guy who kicked it all off :o)


Now, naturally, I want more! :o)

In the past I've drawn a distinction between 'nested folders' and a  
means to group collections in the sidebar. I see these as distinct  
things and I've copied the original post below where I go into more  
detail on the issue. My question is, do you see these as one and the  
same or would you consider the latter as a different feature  
request. To me nested folders means hierarchical organisation and  
I'd be the first to agree this is not necessary, I'd be interested  
in your view on the matter.


I appreciate there's more than one way to skin a cat and to my mind  
a different approach to tag navigation could obviate the need for  
this, but as an interface designer myself I'm keeping my cards close  
to my chest on that one as I have a particular solution in mind for  
a project of my own! ;o)


Regards, T.



Extract from that previous post…


Tag collection grouping
OK, hopefully no one thinks I'm trying to pull a fast one and change  
the name of the game from 'nested folders' but on reviewing the  
previous threads again I think the debate gets sidetracked into one  
of hierarchy vs. tagging - a fine debate in it's own right but not  
really what I'm after as a feature request. I'm really very happy  
with tag & search approach for many things, but for quick reference  
and ad-hoc corralling of tagged information I use tag collections  
extensively. I have a lot of them, too many to be easily reviewable  
in one long multi-page scrolling list - not (I'll pre-empt the  
inevitable response) in some vain attempt to re-impose an old  
fashioned hierarchy, but simply to take advantage of the benefits of  
tagging for the purposes of browsing (as opposed to searching). It  
is a pain to only be able to sort these tag collections  
a

Any way to edit a tag?

[dsm101]

Okay, I remembered that there was a window somewhere with a list of  
tags, and I dug around it and found it in preferences. So if I were to  
create a tag for each project, I could view the list of projects here.  
Seems a little odd but I could get used to that.


But in that case I'd like to be able to add a prefix to a tag as soon  
as the project is completed, to drop it to the bottom of that list and  
keep only the active projects on top. Is there a way to edit a tag  
once you've created it so that it will be changed everywhere? Or would  
I have to type the new tag and delete the old one for every note?


Scott Marley

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Yet another mostly happy user

[dsm101]

I'm another mostly happy Yojimbo user who would be even happier with  
nested folders. Well, that and being able to sync my notes to my  
iPhone -- hopefully that will come soon enough.


I admit that I have very little experience using tags. I have made a  
few forays with one program or another, but eventually I always seem  
to find that I hardly ever end up using the tags that I've made. So  
maybe I'm just missing something. But I also know that in over five  
years of using various note-organization programs very heavily, I have  
wanted to keep a note within two different categories exactly once. So  
I'm also not feeling much motivation to break out of the hierarchical  
model for organizing my notes.


Someone recently invited us to describe a problem that needed to be  
solved rather than the solution we wanted somebody to design. So  
here's mine.


I too use the GTD method, tailored to my particular needs. And I also  
take and make lots and lots of notes when I'm working on a project. In  
a meeting or when I'm planning, I often have six or seven or eight  
notes open at once and switch back and forth among them -- this is the  
sort of thing that I find Yojimbo terrific for. The ease of doing  
that, the .Mac syncking, and the lack of SOHO Notes's bugginess (I  
really want to love that software, but it has eaten my homework more  
than once and I feel awkward trusting it with anything really  
important now) are the reasons I'm using Yojimbo instead of one of the  
several other note-organizing programs I own (many of which are  
otherwise perfectly fine).


I have:
-- one folder for all my GTD lists -- active projects, projects I'm  
committed to but which are on hold, possible projects (what Allen  
calls the "someday/maybe" list), and my to-do or "next action" lists
-- a general "inbox" folder for dropping quick notes to myself into,  
that I will process later
-- several more specific inbox-like folders for things like links to  
webpages to look at, stuff I need to read, shopping lists: some of the  
commoner destinations for new notes to myself, basically, to save  
myself one step in the processing process
-- one folder for each active project, plus one folder for "small  
projects" which are projects that don't need more than one note page  
each
-- a "general reference" folder, which probably contains more than  
half my total notes; it's the equivalent of my file cabinet and I keep  
it simple, just an A to Z list (of course I try to title things in way  
that makes sense to me, but I can generally find what I'm looking for  
by keyword searching)
-- a few more specific reference folders for categories that I refer  
to often enough that it's useful to have them up on top


It's important and useful to me to be able to bring up all my notes  
for an active project quickly, so putting each one in a folder seems  
handiest to me. I could, I suppose, use the project name as a tag on  
each of my project notes, but then I'd have to search on the name of  
the tag instead of opening the folder, and that seems like a little  
more trouble to me. Plus I might slowed down by a mindburp causing me  
to forget the exact name of the tag I'm searching for. Plus the worry  
about the possibility of inadvertently using different tags on notes  
from the same project ("July: Workshops" on one note and "Workshops:  
July" on another). And, you know, it's just handy to have that list of  
project folders there to run my eye down.


The problem that nested folders would solve for me is that I want to  
keep my notes for completed projects handy, too, because I do refer to  
them now and then. A lot of the projects are annual or quarterly or  
otherwise regular things, and either I'm doing them again so I will  
want to review all my notes on what I did the last time or times, or  
somebody else is doing them and I want to share my old notes with him  
or her. But I don't want these old project notes to get in the way of  
my active projects, either; I just want them available.


What I'm currently doing is prefixing the name of each completed  
project folder with an omega (control-Z), which is the symbol I use in  
my file naming for something completed or that for whatever reason I  
want to send to the bottom of the list where it's out of the way. The  
result, of course, is that I now have a very long list of folders, the  
bottom three-quarters or so of which are completed projects that I'm  
not likely to look at very often. It would be nice to be able to drag  
them all into a superfolder called "Completed projects".


I have tried exporting old project notes as text files, storing them  
in subfolders in my Documents folder, and deleting them from Yojimbo.  
But that's an unsatisfying solution -- I just have to reimport them if  
I find I want to have them handy on a similar project later. And the  
whole point of this sort of software is to be able to file things away  
where you can get at