On Jan 23, 2012, at 22:33, rewrisk rewrisk@... wrote:
I am excited by the prospect of discourse with people who are not
entirely asleep and no interest whatsoever in those who contentedly
sleep on.
A distinction many will understand on such a forum, yet has no meaning
outside the
On 1/25/2012 2:18 AM, Bill! wrote:
Rewisk,
I've often also used the mythology of 'eating of the fruit of the Tree
of the Knowledge of Good and Evil' as a metaphor for the rise of the
discriminting mind and self which tends to obscure Buddha Nature
(which I refer to as Just THIS!)
...Bill!
On 1/25/2012 4:51 AM, Bill! wrote:
Rewisk,
To continue with the analogy from my perspective...
The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil did have fruit, but it
wasn't just the Fruit of Knowledge. It was the Fruit of the Knowledge
of Good and Evil which is necessarily laced with the
On 1/26/2012 12:22 AM, rewrisk wrote:
Ha ha.
This speeks to my new topic.
So you think knowledge learnt from others is essential to the search
for enlightenment?
Funny question, as it appears to seek an answer from others! Almost as
funny as this notion of searching for...
On 1/26/2012 12:50 AM, rewrisk wrote:
I answer this out of courtesy.
Except for parts of a few scriptures, where have I spoken the words of
another? Used ideas pronounced by another? I have answered this
question from yourself before, this becomes an accusation.
An accusation that I know is
On 1/26/2012 4:35 AM, rewrisk wrote:
You are being disingenuous.
Worse than the previous intellectual fraud.
It is more simply dishonest.
I am not asking disingenuous questions.
Not labeling you or your words.
I am simply reflecting on your offerings.
On 1/26/2012 4:54 AM, rewrisk wrote:
I see hints, here and there in your words of something.
But mostly not.
Something? Just an illusion. Arising and passing. The words having
nothing in them, are not for you.
On 1/26/2012 5:56 PM, rewrisk wrote:
Your argument is based on a premise.
You confess that you do not know that premise to be true.
Therefore your words make a non sense.
I have no use for non sense.
Naturally.
Enlightenment is no different.
On 1/26/2012 6:09 PM, rewrisk wrote:
Dont bother unless you are going to speak of what you yourself know.
Zen flesh zen bones is far from my favourite book on zen but probably
the most usefull that I encounterred in the time I was searching. I
could look at any page and see words spoken by
On 1/26/2012 6:20 PM, rewrisk wrote:
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com,
Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 1/26/2012 5:56 PM, rewrisk wrote:
Your argument is based on a premise.
You confess that you do not know that premise to be true.
Therefore
On 1/26/2012 8:36 PM, rewrisk wrote:
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com
mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com,
Kristopher Grey kris@ wrote:
Forms offer no hindrance.
Eloquence.
What hindrance but form?
Attachment.
On 1/26/2012 9:29 PM, rewrisk wrote:
Attachment. Illusion
Do you listen?
If you listen why do you not hear.
Yes, nothing to be hindered.
You hear clearly, yet ask for more noise. Curious pastime.
Attachment is believing things should be this or that.
Suffering is believing things should not be this or that.
Delusion is thinking either causes the other/that these and other things
are separate things, and so am I.
Current Book Discussion: any Zen
Twitter version:
Attachment: Believing things should be.
Suffering: Believing things shouldn't be.
Delusion: Believing either causes the other/are separate.
On 1/26/2012 10:04 PM, Kristopher Grey wrote:
Attachment is believing things should be this or that.
Suffering is believing things
On 1/26/2012 10:34 PM, rewrisk wrote:
You must both know your own mind and be able to exercise control over
it or any powerfull Satori will leave you insane.
I also see this potential for people going insane. Perhaps all do. Some
in ways society can ignore or tolerate, some not (sanity
On 1/26/2012 10:47 PM, rewrisk wrote:
This is disingenuous my friend.
You did not hear my statement, but responded from preconceptions.
Having no way to hear what another hears, is it not disingenuous to
suggest otherwise?
Disingenuous it a label that must be preconceived to be able to
On 1/27/2012 1:27 AM, rewrisk wrote:
danger... problem... control... insanity... lose their minds...
control... dominate... control... violation... my autonomy...
Autonomy... self governing... self control... control another..
forsake... control of yourself... fight oneself... govern
On 1/27/2012 3:15 AM, Bill! wrote:
Rewisk,
If you have no use for non sense then you have no use for zen...Bill!
To not see the great humor in much of Zen writing, history, and
practices - is tragic indeed.
On 1/27/2012 3:22 AM, rewrisk wrote:
This is avoidance
Avoidance, engagement - same disease.
On 1/27/2012 3:26 AM, rewrisk wrote:
But tell me what use is enlightenment?
Isn't it obvious?
Only use is you'll never again feel any lack of it, no desire to seek
after it.
Liberation is FROM this notion of Enlightenment!
Too damn funny!
谢谢您
On 1/27/2012 10:35 AM, 覺妙精明 wrote:
Dear Kristopher Grey, I enjoyed your posting. Where were you all
this time. Please contribute more in the future. A bow to you, JMJM
On 1/27/2012 12:06 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
...we should split off a group... that can focus on the absolute, and
allow this listserv group the much more boing task of seeing the
absolute and the relative intermingled.
Yes. Let's separate apparent absolute aspects of suchness from
On 1/27/2012 12:27 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
To elaborate on who controls what?:
Self-control is stupid because there is no self to control or to do
the controlling. Zen is about stopping things, not adding new layers
of control...
Even stopping things speaks of control...
On 1/27/2012 3:23 PM, ChrisAustinLane wrote:
Zen is about not doing things.
Doing/not doing - same. Either way this still speaks of a separation,
and implies a separate controller.
Non-doing - aka - Cessation, is not the same as not doing .
Things are simply done or not done as they arise
On 1/27/2012 5:24 PM, rewrisk wrote:
There is no zen in any of what you say.
High praise. Thank you.
On 2/1/2012 1:21 AM, mattmodrow wrote:
Well, I suppose that makes a lot of sense. I have become rather
quick in noticing when I first begin to have a thought, but my
practice has always been to return to the present.
What thought can arise that is not present?
K
On 2/1/2012 3:35 AM, Bill! wrote:
If you do not meditate to halt your mind's functions the you are not
doing zazen.
Is that so?
Just to be clear by 'halt' I mean 'sever your attachments to the
products of your mind's functions.
OK, that's a significant difference, though any
On 2/1/2012 7:11 PM, mattmodrow wrote:
This is how we practice at the center I go to.
Just to be clear(er), I am questioning your practice. It's all up to you.
Such practices have many potential uses, and hidden in plain sight among
all of these uses lies the possibility that what you
On 2/1/2012 7:42 PM, mattmodrow wrote:
Rewrisk, if you could only see how hard that made me laugh just now.
Oh man, I am still laughing as I write. I like your piss vinegar (a
deep compliment, seriously) approach to Zen. After all, it is good old
fashioned elbow grease that makes things
On 2/1/2012 8:08 PM, Kristopher Grey wrote:
Just to be clear(er), I am questioning your practice. It's all up to you.
FWIW - That should have read not questioning...
Likewise, not answering! :)
A very good classical description, Bill. I have no issues with
definitions of Japanese terms - they're as good as any. If I had a path
more similar to yours I might say many of those things.
On 2/1/2012 9:57 PM, Bill! wrote:
Kristopher,
I'll only address the part of your post that you pose
On 2/1/2012 11:31 PM, Bill! wrote:
Kristopher,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
Likewise.
Just to revist for a second, as there was one other thing that caught my
eye when you wrote: Japanese Zen Buddhist do use several terms to
describe varying degrees of awakening: 'kensho', 'satori'
Likewise, we are expressing this differently.
Suchness.
K
On 2/3/2012 3:12 AM, Bill! wrote:
Kristopher,
IMO religions are cultural expressions of some perceived 'Truth'.
When they move from culture to culture the expression of the
fundamental 'Truth' changes to better fit the culture. So
On 2/8/2012 10:30 AM, ED wrote:
As per zen, how does one 'deal with' or relate to or be with acute
physical pain or chronic physical pain or emotional pain or feelings
such as anxiety or fear?
How does one not deal with these things?
This whole issue of dealing with/not dealing with what
The way, appears so, but is this so?
Such is the way.
K
On 2/9/2012 4:38 AM, mattmodrow wrote:
It has occurred to me, that practice has a lot to do with perspective.
How you mentally approach formal practice and practice within daily
life is of the utmost importance. Because of our
Nature's energy, appearing to be of the place, is minds relation to what
it perceives. Mind's relation to mind. Mind's nature. Some places
present simply appearances we mind less than others.
Wild places, calm wild minds.
K
Current Book Discussion: any
What sort of master wastes a second on questions of how they should
act? If such opinions/consensus are needed, what has been mastered?
Should is just another form of attachment. It may appear as if it
directs future actions, but is always a justification for, or indictment
of, past behavior.
On 2/10/2012 9:08 AM, Anthony Wu wrote:
OK, lets drop the word 'should'. What do they do in the face of other
people's suffering?
Better to drop this idea of suffering.
Questioning others actions only re-frames your own suffering, obscuring
what is, impeding clear action.
The enlightened
On 2/10/2012 4:45 PM, Anthony Wu wrote:
You say, 'Better to drop this idea of suffering.'
How can? If you are in great pain, e.g. due to cancer, can you 'drop'
the idea?
You pick through my words, hoping to find something that conforms to
what you want to believe, while what I'm getting at
On 2/12/2012 5:50 AM, Anthony Wu wrote:
I would have done the same as you would... ...It is certainly no use
just theorizing.
You have your answer.
You always have your answer, as the answer/action arises in the moment.
Anything else is theorizing.
Your story sounds like my own personal
On 2/12/2012 7:30 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Information is neutral not painful. The pain is in the reaction to the
information not the information and that can be changed by right thought.
I am speaking purely of neurological signals when I say information.
Neutrality is not very attention
On 2/13/2012 3:30 AM, rewrisk wrote:
Right thinking not discursive judgemental thinking?
Judgement is dividing/identifying/attaching some relative value system
to this/that, self/other, yours/mine, right/wrong. From this arises
perceptions of lack, desire for more/better/other, etc. This is
On 2/17/2012 6:25 PM, rewrisk wrote:
Where?
Busy buzzing fly
Going shit pile to shit pile
Seeks the shittiest
Compound eyes seeing
Facets of feces before it
Not what's left behind
Following the scent
Sensing the finest is near
It rides the tailwind
K
On 3/31/2012 6:47 PM, robenzo72 wrote:
Hello all,
I just joined after searching the net for a couple of hours. I'm
enduring some considerably demoralizing persecution. I'm mainly
talking of verbal/mental/emotional abuse. I'm curious what Zen or
Buddhism in general recommends for this
On 4/4/2012 3:52 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
... his Zen which was mixed in with a lot of other stuff and not very
pure. But hey so was mine at the time!
A timeless error, this his Zen/my Zen business...
K
On 4/4/2012 6:23 PM, mike brown wrote:
Kirk,
Even a Zen traditionalist wouldn't be too concerned about Ginsberg's
and Watts' Zen. People can experience Zen/zen whether they've heard of
it previously, or not, Indeed, it's possible to 'experience' Zen even
be those following an orthodox,
On 4/5/2012 1:16 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
This is of course why the notion of Karma is total nonsense..
No more so than saying so. ;)
The whole notion of 'Zen' is captured with: Is that so?, and dispelled
with: Don't know, yet people still seek some understanding of this...
, just not the
rules of Karma which are a gross Pollyanna oversimplification designed
to succor the weak and oppressed.. Same as the meek will get their
rewards in heaven...
Edgar
On Apr 6, 2012, at 12:44 AM, Kristopher Grey wrote:
On 4/5/2012 1:16 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
This is of course
The question answers itself, already being where those words were
pointing...
On 4/6/2012 10:58 AM, salik888 wrote:
since there really is not time, where is the error?
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com,
Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
On 4/4/2012 3:52
On 4/6/2012 12:22 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
I agree that all forms are empty information but they are all subject to
logical computational laws which are themselves also forms.
Thus such a statement of emptiness being subject to emptiness is
redundant and useless.
The laws you speak of, being
On 4/6/2012 12:18 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Two kinds of time exist, what I call p-time, the time of the present
moment and clock time which flows through the present moment at
different relativistic rates...
Edgar
Time is conceptual. Empty. Further spliting it doesn't change this. Time
On 4/6/2012 7:18 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
The error is that to have Zen...
Have Zen, will babble...
K
On 4/6/2012 7:18 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
The error is that to have Zen you must directly experience reality as
it actually is. Without understanding what reality actually is you'll
forever mistake illusion for reality...
With any understanding of this, that you believe to be so, you mistake
There is understanding of, there is recognition in, and there is
realization as. Tripartite aspects of Unity (an apparent division
of/in/as mind)*
Words being equally as useful for conveying understanding as
misunderstanding, can only point to this.
Whether you see agreement or disagreement
On 4/7/2012 11:05 AM, 覺妙精明 wrote:
Is/Are there cause(s) for the actualization? From the Big Bang to
this and to that?
Conception of from and to, this and that... is actualization.
Conception of space and time, matter and energy... same.
If there was no time/space before the Big Bang,
On 4/8/2012 9:49 PM, pandabananas...@yahoo.com wrote:
Stop trying so hard, everyone! Drop the hierarchy and the charts and
the lists and the steps and the wheels and everything else. Tear them
off the walls! They are like childrens' drawings: very poor quality,
but still earning a loving
On 4/10/2012 7:15 PM, Bill! wrote:
Ed,
If you mean does zen recognize Free Will or Predestination (karma),
IMO zen would recognize Free Will.
...Bill!
If as Buddha is reputed to have said, Karma is intention, then belief
in Free Will generates no less karma than belief in fate. Free
On 4/12/2012 3:16 PM, salik888 wrote:
flexibility ... for some, none for others
zendervish
You see much, where there is little. ;)
All that, the flexibility, the others - are you. Apparent aspects of
your experiencing - of mind. Whatever you may learn, right or wrong, same.
In other
On 4/13/2012 10:39 AM, salik888 wrote:
Well, as we know, there really is nothing to say, but we all go on
saying it in one way or another . . . and well, that is the Catch 22,
the fly in the ointment, the sticky mess, the live we life, the love
we leave, and the long and the short of it .
On 4/13/2012 10:06 AM, salik888 wrote:
Thank you for Zen Master discourse
zendervish
Leaves rustling in the wind. Is this Zen?
A bag full of nails, a tradition full of stories, a list full of posts...
Mind is filled, mind is emptied.
All is mind.
K
On 4/23/2012 11:57 PM, salik888 wrote:
A BAG OF NAILS
Once upon a time there was a little boy with a bad temper. His father
gave him a bag of nails and told him that
In passing, reflecting on the last words... Repeatedly muttering to
himself I'm sorry, smiling, as no one noticed this.
How could they? There are no zen masters (in any of the ten directions).
K
On 4/24/2012 1:01 PM, ED wrote:
A (Western) zen master passing by heard this conversation
Perhaps. Either way I remain unmoved by such holy business, unconcerned
which direction it may appear to be coming from or going to.
K
On 4/25/2012 10:41 AM, ED wrote:
K, a (Western) zen master might say: Holes or no holes - walk on.
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey kris
Nothing says it better.
On 4/25/2012 1:24 PM, ED wrote:
Whether you or I am moved or unmoved by holy business, the birds still
chirp in spring and the stars till twinkle in a clear sky.
On 4/25/2012 3:03 PM, ED wrote:
A recurring theme in zenist utterances appears to be:
Get out of your (discursive) mind and into your senses.
Senselessly perpetuating the myth of 'Ordinary Mind' being other than
'Buddha Mind'.
On 4/25/2012 3:18 PM, ED wrote:
Subtle and significant distinction.
Demon Zen! Or, for (Western) masters: 'The Devil's in the details.'
K
On 4/25/2012 3:08 PM, mike brown wrote: ...dwell in the space before the
discursive mind starts interpreting what the senses receive..
Such a choice is delusion itself. Mind choosing aspects of mind,
reflecting an aspect of mind's nature. All is mind. Choiceless. Suchness.
.
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com,
Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
Senselessly perpetuating the myth of 'Ordinary Mind' being other than
'Buddha Mind'.
On 4/25/2012 3:03 PM, ED wrote:
A recurring theme in zenist utterances appears to be:
Get out of your
.'
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com,
Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
Demon Zen! Or, for (Western) masters: 'The Devil's in the details.'
K
On 4/25/2012 3:18 PM, ED wrote:
Subtle and significant distinction.
On 4/27/2012 3:54 PM, robenzo72 wrote:
The quandary I've shared here is simple, which works: Pacifist Zen
techniques (not sure if it's really practical in mainstream society),
or a mixture of healthy assertiveness in order to maintain your Zen (I
envision it as sorta' standing up for your
People are wont to say: Zen is _...
This is not Zen. This is ordinary mind creating stories of Zen.
With the nature of mind revealed, ordinary mind as Buddha Mind, any
illusion of stopping mind is no more special than any other apparent
state of mind.
Please don't take my word for this.
[Buddha Mind] and watch the ripples...
K
On 5/23/2012 4:32 PM, ED wrote:
Zen is nothing about which anything can be said?
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com,
Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
People are wont to say: Zen is _...
This is not Zen
Powerful indeed, this realization of give and take without giver or
taker! Limitless!
I have, in wiser moments, used the spaces between raindrops to avoid
drowning. *L*
The way you expressed this could be played upon [variations on a theme]
to create a very simple enjoyable book about the
On 5/23/2012 8:39 PM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote:
Let me know when you are able to read others' thoughts, I could use
some help :-)
Whatever you think they're thinking is as accurate as your thinking
about who you think they are. All thoughts, equally limited to their
thinker, thus no
Bewildering presence of being, may be recognized as clear seeing, or not.
On 5/24/2012 2:02 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote:
Read me?
Totally lost
*From: * Kristopher Grey k...@kgrey.com
*Sender: * Zen_Forum
Originality is a conceived quality of perception. What seems to be new,
is but a small bit less ignorance of what is so. If we were to truly use
our own words, they would be unintelligible to others. Gibberish.
Instead, I use these words, borrowed from what is commonly called the
'English
Not being able to read from those who have not written, this is your
understanding of 'zen masters'. Most do not write. With other forms of
Buddhism, same. Yet, there are more works than can easily be cataloged.
Also notice how much is written ABOUT such 'masters', and about Buddha -
and
authors.
Anthony
*From:* Kristopher Grey k...@kgrey.com
*To:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Saturday, 2 June 2012, 22:00
*Subject:* Re: [Zen] Re: News: Stanford scholar tracks meditation's
migration from ancient monasteries to modern yoga
Not being able to read from those who have
. There are some notable exceptions, but
for example Buddha himself left no writings (we know of). Neither did
important zen masters like Joshu. And of course Jesus left no
personal written teachings.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey
On 6/4/2012 12:49 AM, Joe wrote:
Your zen is what I care about...
None have any zen
Never giving this a thought
No zen is lacking
On 6/4/2012 1:02 AM, Joe wrote:
Even the greatest of Great practitioners read the sutras regularly.
Does anyone know the reason?
The reason is... that... during the time of reading the sutras, we are
not doing evil.
Fool, this is demon zen!
K
And teachers remind us that we must not
Well, there is that implication, but that's not Bill's doing! *L* His
comment could also be read more simply.
K
On 6/4/2012 6:56 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Bill...
Come on Bill I can't believe you said this! You imply that great
practitioners would be out doing evil unless they were doing THOSE
that 'you should develop a mind which abides nowhere'. Do
you believe that Buddha really held up a flower and Mahakasypa smiled?
It is very wholesome to believe it.
Anthony
*From:* Kristopher Grey k...@kgrey.com
*To:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Monday, 4 June 2012, 5:08
*Subject:* Re
On 6/4/2012 8:50 PM, Joe wrote:
What's zen to you?
This is my query.
How is this relevant? What can any answer offer you, but another chance
to mistake this?
I only care because I know what it is to me.
I only reply, as I find it a curious thing to question.
And I know we are not
On 6/6/2012 4:53 PM, Joe wrote:
No, seriously not seeking other favors of zen, as you write, Kris,
but asking what may be important to you about our Topic.
Though Zen has been imported to the West, I will not further muck it up
by attaching any importance.
Zen, being priceless, has no
This is very clear
Where there is transparency
You see see evasion!
_/|\_
On 6/6/2012 7:39 PM, Joe wrote:
Can't argue with that.
I am asking about its importance to you, not about its real
importance. ;-)
Evasion and hiding are not the Buddha-way. Of course, you are entitled
to (keep)
Airy fairy? You're being too kind Merle. Hope is a lie. Trust is a
contract built on that lie.
With whom or what is your trust placed?
What is trust, but hope with more specific intentions and added
expectations/terms/strings attached?
Intention is Karma, Expectations are suffering.
I
Of course, it has to take some form, and have some description, to be
shared. Still, even as these are aspects of suchness, including apparent
clinging, there is no lack this fills. If you prefer to called this
trust, so be it. I enjoy you perspective.
Without intention or expectation,
K
On
On 6/10/2012 10:44 PM, Joe wrote:
(Another thing, sometimes noted: Compassion is not necessarily
something you FEEL, but it simply operates; and, to say the least, it
is not always sweetness-and-light).
Indeed!
Yes, pointing to this can get in the way of their whole Bodhisattva dream.
I'd go as far to say compassion is a side effect/integral aspect of
awakening. I'd say the same of equanimity. All aspects of this
realization. In other words, it's not what someone thinks it is.
Compassion is not
to label it. Categorization / filing /
analyzing are just different perspectives / descriptions /mental
construct of this inseparable oneness / integrated system... jm
On 6/12/2012 8:33 AM, Kristopher Grey wrote:
Yes, pointing to this can get in the way of their whole Bodhisattva
dream.
I'd go
:55 AM, Kristopher Grey wrote:
Appreciate that jm, as I didn't express it very well - or perhaps
perfectly - as there was no intention/expectation - just the
expression. ;)
K
On 6/12/2012 11:49 AM, 覺妙精明 （JMJM） wrote:
I like it, K. Yes, indeed. At the center / beneath of it all,
just ONE
On 6/12/2012 9:13 PM, Joe wrote:
My favorite non-Haiku is:
A horse walks into a bar. Bartender says, Why the long FACE?
A skeleton walks into a bar, and orders a beer, and a mop.
OK, maybe that was more Chöd than Zen.
There is nothing in Zen, nothing that is not an an aspect of Zen.
Perhaps you were speaking only of what is contained in various teachings
some ascribe to Chan/Zen schools of Buddhism, mistaking these for Zen?
Your question, is a form of 'hungry' - look no farther.
K
On 6/13/2012 4:21 AM,
Compassion is wherever you are. Compassion is always with, never from
or for. What use seeking it in others? Questions of others equanimity or
enlightenment, make the same error.
Compassion with this error, allows it to be realized.
Equanimity in this error, allows this to be realized.
Where does this 'practice' begin and end?
If an answer appears, if there are reasons and results, such practice is
too full of itself.
K
On 6/13/2012 10:00 AM, Joe wrote:
Now, when you say lay terms, do you mean terms that have nothing to
do with zen practice and its results? If so,
OK - I'm no Zennist - or teacher - but I'll play:
Compassion, extends even to false ideas of compassion. - K
On 6/13/2012 10:52 AM, seacrofter001 wrote:
Joe, the words in this thread can go on forever. If you as a zenist (or
any other zenist on this forum) were allowed only one sentence
that root
free of attachments, but it already holds no ground.
On 6/13/2012 11:00 AM, ED wrote:
K, and that is why all this talk about compassion, idiot or otherwise is
to no avail?
--ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com,
Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote
On 6/13/2012 11:07 AM, ED wrote:
K, the problem with zen is that, without reliance on scriptures, zen in
the West appears to have become a madhouse of opinions of zen teachers
and their students - not that I recommend any change.
--ED
This windmill is not a dragon Don Quixote!
This is
Yes, Bill got as close to expressing the essence of compassion as anyone
can. ;)
K
On 6/13/2012 11:34 AM, ED wrote:
Mike -
I do - as does everyone else in this forum, IMO. I think that Bill in
his message below has answered the question as to what a zenist should
'do' about compassion.
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