Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
After careful consideration, Marc A. Schindler wrote: I know what you mean, but technically Khrushchev had nothing to do with the embargo of Cuba, which was put into place by the U.S. I think you mean the emplacement of missiles there. But what very few USAmericans realize, and what you apparently aren't taught is that this was in reprisal for something. Trivia time, boys and girls: anybody know what the original US action was that prompted the emplacement of missiles in Cuba? You already gave it away a couple of weeks ago, Marc. You said then that is was a retaliation for the missiles that the USA had installed in Turkey. Now you know that I actually do read some of your stuff. grin --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
By that time, Kruschev had changed his name to Khrushchev ;-) and Khrushchev was party chairman. This was after Stalin's death. Incidentally, while he grew up in the eastern, more russianized half of Ukraine, he was actually born in Kursk, Russia. I believe the meeting where ETB first met him was during Eisenhower's trip to Moscow in 1945. Kursk (after whom the submarine was named) is the Oblastgorod (provincial capital) of the province by the same name, which lies on the Russian side of the border with Ukraine, and the city lies on the main highway south from Moscow to Kharkov (Ukraine), and eventually, to the Crimea. Steven Montgomery wrote: At 12:05 PM 10/16/2002, you wrote: Now Stalin didn't do this personally. He delegated it to another man, a Ukrainian named Nikita Kruschev. And ever since, Kruschev has been called the butcher of the Ukraine. This is the man that President Eisenhower honored by inviting him to visit the United States and receive all the hospitality of the White House. This is the man that Ezra Taft Benson shook hands with. Well, this is a dreadful story indeed. How awful! And, on another note, I certainly won't be telling any of my non-Mormon friends about this. I'm very disappointed. I will NOT follow the example of the apostle in this regard. :-( Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Choose who you will to follow, but it was President David O. McKay who advised Elder Benson to go ahead and meet with Kruschev. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Explore Freedom: http://www.geocities.com/graymada / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
Stephen Beecroft wrote: -Marc- Trivia time, boys and girls: anybody know what the original US ^^^ action was that prompted the emplacement of missiles in Cuba? ^^ [...] NATO had put into place batteries of missiles in NE Turkey, aimed at the USSR, and it was in retaliation for this that Khrushchev put missiles in Cuba. [...] The problem is that today we tend to remember Cuba, but forget that we wronged them first. -Stephen- Wow. NATO, led by the US, no doubt, decided out of a clear blue sky -Marc- Why do you say they did it out of the clear blue sky? It was sarcasm. You spoke of the original US action as the trigger for the incident, it was. without acknowledging that perhaps the so-called original US action was in fact done in response to other Soviet actions -- in which case (by your logic) the blame would rest on the USSR, not on the USA. Well, sure, and you can carry it back to the beginning of the Cold War. But the point was that the Cuban missile crisis didn't just pop up out of the blue -- that's all I was saying, and nothing more. In other words, you're claiming that the US started it. The words within your quotes are words I've never stated, nor do I believe them. But you're not backing that claim up with anything at all except your own word. I respect your knowledge of history and world events, but somehow I just don't think I'll accept your word for it that the US action that supposedly precipitated the Cuban missile crisis was the original action. I bet Do you know, or is this more telepathy? it was precipitated by a number of Soviet events; in fact, with a little prodding, I bet you could even name many of those actions (hint: eastern Europe, southeast Asia, other Soviet expansionist actions). Your telepathy is in overdrive today. -Marc- I'd be surprised if it hadn't been part of a strategy. Of course there was a reason. But that wasn't my question. What question? You mean the one you already answered, that the Cuban missile crisis was caused by an original US action of stationing missiles in Turkey? I wasn't addressing that question; I was addressing your answer to it. Yeah, yeah, and it's tortoises all the way down... -Stephen- Less ignorant than before, -Marc- But more and more telepathic all the time. Practice makes perfect. The problem is, to be sarcastic, you have to be sarcastic of *something.* Nowhere in my post did I ever said that NATO put missiles in Turkey for no reason You clearly implied it in saying that the original US action precipitated the Cuban missile crisis, Which is true. all the while ignoring that that supposedly original action also had a history behind it. Because any previous history wasn't part of the question. How far back do you want to take it -- to Adam? -- I was clarifiying the idea that the Russians put missiles in Cuba for no reason. Reread your self-answer, Marc: The problem is that today we tend to remember Cuba, but forget that we wronged them first. This is correct. It's been my experience that the vast majority of North Americans do *not* know that the Cuban missile crisis was immediately precipitated and was the immediate response by the Soviets to what they took to be the provocative action of NATO stationing missiles in Turkey. Huh? We wronged them *first*? If you did not intend to say that there was no reason for our stationing of missiles in Turkey, then what exactly did you mean by saying that we wronged them first? First -- previous, prior to, before. Don't rely on telepathy to the point where you burn your dictionaries ;-) Stephen -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
I think you have a Pollyanna view of Prophets and their role. In 1959, at President McKay's request, [then] Elder Ezra Taft Benson welcomed and shook hands with the butcher of the Ukraine, Nikita Kruschev. More recently, at the Polynesian Cultural Center in Hawaii, Church leaders met with some of the leaders of the murderous Communist Chinese regime. So what? The First Presidency meets with a lot of people in an official capacity, not all of them righteous upstanding individuals, and a few of them with hearts full of murder. Well, I don't know much about Kruschev other than he backed down against the blockade in Cuba. Whether he is a murderer or not is not for me to decide. Same thing goes for the Chinese leaders. And if the prophet does shake hands with murderers--all I can say is I am terribly disappointed and I disapprove. Oh well. I suppose that these guys you call murderers have already been baptized by proxy? What a deal. :-( Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
The Lord's priesthood has a mission to perform for liberty-loving people everywhere. We cannot, any more than Jonah of old, run away from our calling. (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 620; italics added.) I'm not running away. I'm just not going to get involved with politics. I don't want to know. See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil. Let the prophets take care of it. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
Thanks Steven for the quotes from Pres Benson on the secret combinations. Now, if we look at his overall writings on the subject, he primarily meant communism as that secret combination. He saw many in our own nation who had leftist leanings, and saw that as the downfall of our nation. You will note, however, that he never mentions anything about the CFR or other groups. So, I suggest we take his words in the context he placed them, and not put words in his mouth. He did not ask us to see shadows of conspiracy everywhere, rather to fight against secret combinations as we find them. Terrorism is a form of secret combination, where they literally seek to get gain through murder. Communism/socialism has slaughtered millions over the past century, it too, is still a great and grave danger. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
After careful consideration, Steven Montgomery wrote: At 07:46 AM 10/15/2002, Paul wrote: Well, you know me--I'm NOT into conspiracy theories at all. Wasn't it so that Elder Benson was all alone in his campaign or which of the other apostles stood by his side and declared the same message? You know what I mean--two or three witnesses. Was his campaign overseen by the First Presidency including the one he belonged to? I don't believe it was. Below are six statements from President Ezra Taft Benson regarding a world- wide conspiracy that is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. These warnings have come to us from God through His living prophet. All six statements came after his call in 1985 to be President of the Church. And just in case there might be some uninformed members on the list, this counsel has been given us just recently in General Conference by Elder Ballard. So the argument that was then, and this is now won't fly. Elder Ballard is not a dead prophet. And neither is President Hinckley who presided at that conference and sat right behind the podium. People who do not want to believe in this great secret combination that is gaining an ever tighter grip over all of the nations of the earth are just scared. They feel impotent. They want every thing to be all right. They don't know what to do about it. Well, considering these things when voting might be in order. This understanding might help us from being deceived by a toothy grin and a firm handshake. We might be able to prepare our families better if we understood what was going on right before our noses. And if we understood how dreadful our peril is, we might be more faithful in doing our duty. Nobody has suggested that we should throw the bums out. It is too late for that. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === It may be, for instance, that nothing except the power of faith and the authority of the priesthood can save individuals and congregations from the atomic holocausts that surely shall be. --Bruce R. McConkie === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
After careful consideration, Paul Osborne wrote: Generalizations were made and we are reminded not to mix ourselves with Babylon. I feel the prophets should protect the saints and if they are inclined to muster a rebellion with the government--fine. Just count me out. Who said anything about rebellion? Maybe the Lord just wants us to be savvy. It might help us raise our children and keep our families safe. Perhaps it will awaken us to our awful situation so that we will be more strongly motivated to repent of our sins? The rise of the secret combination is one of the signs of the times prophesied to precede the Second Coming. The Lord uses the signs of the times to help his most devoted followers prepare for the Second Coming, and for our passing through the veil of death. In the Book of Mormon those who know the prophet's words knew when Christ was to come. We too will know if we remain true and faithful. And an understanding of this secret combination might help us remember the urgency of our preparations. Otherwise, we might be inclined to forget about the imminence of his coming, and get too wrapped up in worldly concerns. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === The gospel, the kingdom of God, can prosper only in an atmosphere of freedom. --Ezra Taft Benson === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
After careful consideration, Paul Osborne wrote: Nope. And neither was the President of the United States. Prophets don't shake hands with murderers. Let that be a SIGN to you. This is not any doctrine I've ever heard. Did King Ahaz ever shake the hand of Elijah? I'll bet he did. Did Joseph ever shake the hand of Pharoah? Was Pharoah a murderer. You tell me, Paul. You are the list Egyptologist. Isaiah was a trusted adviser to his king during a time when the Jews were corrupt. Didn't he shake hands with the king he was advising? I think you are wrong about this. If you are right, it is new doctrine to me. I'd need to see some sources. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === It may be, for instance, that nothing except the power of faith and the authority of the priesthood can save individuals and congregations from the atomic holocausts that surely shall be. --Bruce R. McConkie === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
After careful consideration, Paul Osborne wrote: People are going to interpret the fight for freedom differently and how it might apply to their own lives. Irregardless, I'm staying out of the fight. And God can do with me according to his judgment, and I know that his judgements are just and true. I think a good way to fight for freedom is to celebrate Independence Day, and bear our testimonies to our children how much we love living in a free land. We could teach them about the Constitution that God caused to be written by inspired men. This is surely fighting for freedom. If we do our part in keeping the spark of freedom alive in this country, then we have fought the good fight. And understanding our dire peril of losing that freedom might help many of us to repent and do our duty. I don't think we have to charge the White House with a machine gun to fight for freedom. We just need to understand the situation so that we can defend ourselves and our families more effectively. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === It may be, for instance, that nothing except the power of faith and the authority of the priesthood can save individuals and congregations from the atomic holocausts that surely shall be. --Bruce R. McConkie === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
At 12:58 10/16/2002 -0500, Paul O wrote: I would not knowingly shake hands with a murderous unrepentant Gadianton, and that is *my* doctrine. Would you shake hands with a Gadianton robber? I'm very very curious to know the answer to this one. hee hee hee ;-)) Shaking of hands has some interesting scriptural reference, does it not? DC 129 Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
We're pretty sure Abraham shook hands (or the cultural equivalent) with the Pharaoh of his day. In fact, I even believe ETB, as Secretary of Agriculture, shook hands with Khrushchev while showing him the bounty that was possible (on mid-Western farms) under the democratic system of agriculture. John W. Redelfs wrote: After careful consideration, Paul Osborne wrote: Nope. And neither was the President of the United States. Prophets don't shake hands with murderers. Let that be a SIGN to you. This is not any doctrine I've ever heard. Did King Ahaz ever shake the hand of Elijah? I'll bet he did. Did Joseph ever shake the hand of Pharoah? Was Pharoah a murderer. You tell me, Paul. You are the list Egyptologist. Isaiah was a trusted adviser to his king during a time when the Jews were corrupt. Didn't he shake hands with the king he was advising? I think you are wrong about this. If you are right, it is new doctrine to me. I'd need to see some sources. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === It may be, for instance, that nothing except the power of faith and the authority of the priesthood can save individuals and congregations from the atomic holocausts that surely shall be. --Bruce R. McConkie === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
After careful consideration, Stephen Beecroft wrote: Wow. NATO, led by the US, no doubt, decided out of a clear blue sky to station some missiles in Turkey. No history to that action, of course. Just a sudden, impulsive decision by those imperialistic westerners against the poor, oppressed Soviet proletariat. No wonder Khrushchev had to put missiles 90 miles off our coast. Clearly it was the US' fault. Thanks for that informative and impartial analysis. I just love your sarcasm, Stephen. In this case I'm sure we would agree. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
-John- I just love your sarcasm, Stephen. In this case I'm sure we would agree. --JWR Actually, I don't love my own sarcasm. What comes out of my fingertips sounding silly and a bit over-the-top to me ends up seeming much more acidic and unpleasant than intended. You'd think I would learn to avoid sarcasm, since I can't seem to dilute it down enough. Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
The placement of U.S. Missiles in Turkey. At least that's the pat answer the leftists always give. This answer however, is similar to the one given for taking over the countries of eastern Europe--that they needed buffer states to prevent against western aggression and hides the fact that the USSR was an imperialistic country. The real reason the Soviets put missiles in Cuba is that is was part of their expansionist policies. -- Steven Montgomery At 09:13 AM 10/16/2002, you wrote: I know what you mean, but technically Khrushchev had nothing to do with the embargo of Cuba, which was put into place by the U.S. I think you mean the emplacement of missiles there. But what very few USAmericans realize, and what you apparently aren't taught is that this was in reprisal for something. Trivia time, boys and girls: anybody know what the original US action was that prompted the emplacement of missiles in Cuba? Paul Osborne wrote: I think you have a Pollyanna view of Prophets and their role. In 1959, at President McKay's request, [then] Elder Ezra Taft Benson welcomed and shook hands with the butcher of the Ukraine, Nikita Kruschev. More recently, at the Polynesian Cultural Center in Hawaii, Church leaders met with some of the leaders of the murderous Communist Chinese regime. So what? The First Presidency meets with a lot of people in an official capacity, not all of them righteous upstanding individuals, and a few of them with hearts full of murder. Well, I don't know much about Kruschev other than he backed down against the blockade in Cuba. Whether he is a murderer or not is not for me to decide. Same thing goes for the Chinese leaders. And if the prophet does shake hands with murderers--all I can say is I am terribly disappointed and I disapprove. Oh well. I suppose that these guys you call murderers have already been baptized by proxy? What a deal. :-( Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] HTML BODY a href=http://www.getusout.org;img border=0 src=http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif;/a PPBR /BODY /HTML / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
After careful consideration, Stephen Beecroft wrote: Actually, I don't love my own sarcasm. What comes out of my fingertips sounding silly and a bit over-the-top to me ends up seeming much more acidic and unpleasant than intended. You'd think I would learn to avoid sarcasm, since I can't seem to dilute it down enough. Well, I happen to like sarcasm as long as it doesn't get too personal and hurt too much. My maternal grandfather was heavily into sarcasm and I appreciate the humor as long as it is directed elsewhere. grin Jim Cobabe is really good at it too. John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Our Constitution was designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other. (John Adams, 1789) *** All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
At 09:02 PM 10/16/2002, you wrote: After careful consideration, Stephen Beecroft wrote: Actually, I don't love my own sarcasm. What comes out of my fingertips sounding silly and a bit over-the-top to me ends up seeming much more acidic and unpleasant than intended. You'd think I would learn to avoid sarcasm, since I can't seem to dilute it down enough. Well, I happen to like sarcasm as long as it doesn't get too personal and hurt too much. My maternal grandfather was heavily into sarcasm and I appreciate the humor as long as it is directed elsewhere. grin Jim Cobabe is really good at it too. John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED] Let me pipe in and add that I love the facility that both Jim and Stephen have with the english language. Would that I could craft sentences so well. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
I'm sorry that I'm being offensive, but sometimes it just cannot be avoided. Ignorant people are getting us into a war that is not in the national interest. I beg to differ. It certainly appears that there are quite a few folks that are interested in seeing this war carried out. Even in Zion. Hmm. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
I'm sorry that I'm being offensive, but sometimes it just cannot be avoided. Ignorant people are getting us into a war that is not in the national interest. I ain't igerint! You stop tellin that right now! Jon / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
At 07:46 AM 10/15/2002, Paul wrote: Well, you know me--I'm NOT into conspiracy theories at all. Wasn't it so that Elder Benson was all alone in his campaign or which of the other apostles stood by his side and declared the same message? You know what I mean--two or three witnesses. Was his campaign overseen by the First Presidency including the one he belonged to? I don't believe it was. Below are six statements from President Ezra Taft Benson regarding a world- wide conspiracy that is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. These warnings have come to us from God through His living prophet. All six statements came after his call in 1985 to be President of the Church. They cannot be safely ignored. Without an understanding of these prophetic warnings, we cannot correctly interpret national and world events. President Benson's apostolic statements during the 42 years prior to his becoming President of the Church are also helpful as we seek to understand his prophetic statements on this important subject. Many of these apostolic statements were keynote addresses made with the full support, advice, and even explicit recommendation by President David O. McKay. Need two witnesses? Add David O. McKay as a second witness. During this time Elder Benson gave 15 General Conference addresses and President McKay, over a dozen on freedom, free enterprise, fiscal responsibility, the Constitution, and agency. They invariably tied these topics into showing the evils of secret combinations. (Sheri Dew, Ezra Taft Benson: A Biography, Deseret Book, 1987, pp. 366,367.) Finally, God does not call as Prophets men who teach false doctrine. 1. Secret Combinations Oct. 1986: From the Book of Mormon we see the evils of secret combinations portrayed in graphic and chilling reality . . . . We should constantly ask ourselves, 'Why did the Lord inspire Mormon (or Moroni or Alma) to include that in his record? What lesson can I learn from that to help me live in this day and age?' (Conference Report, Oct. 1986, Ensign, Nov. 1986, pp. 6-7; also The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 59.) April 1989: Secret combinations . . . are built up to get power, gain, and glory of the world. (See Hel. 7:5; Ether 8:9, 16, 22-23; Moses 5:31.) . . . Secret combinations brought down both the Jaredite and the Nephite civilizations and [have] been and will yet be the cause of the fall of many nations. (See Ether 8:18-25.) (Conference Report, Oct. 1989, Ensign, May 1989, p. 6.) Jan. 1988: The situation in the world will continue to degenerate unless we read and heed the words of God and quit building up and upholding secret combinations, which the Book of Mormon tells us proved the downfall of ancient civilizations. (The Book of Mormon Is the Word of God, Ensign, Jan. 1988, p. 5.) April 1986: Our nation will continue to degenerate unless we read and heed the words of the God of this land, Jesus Christ, and quit building up and upholding the secret combinations which the Book of Mormon tells us proved the downfall of both previous American civilizations. (The Book of Mormon Is the Word of God, Regional Representative Seminar, Friday, April 4, 1986, pp. 3-4; as quoted in The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 61.) Oct. 1988: Wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. (See DC 1:14- 16; 84:49-53.) It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. (See Ether 8:18-25.) (Conference Report, Oct. 1988, Ensign, Nov. 1988, p. 87; italics added.) April 1987: Secret combinations flourished because, as Helaman tells us, the Gadianton robbers 'had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils' (Helaman 6:38). (Conference Report, April 1987, Ensign, May 1987, p. 4; italics added.) -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
1. Secret Combinations Oct. 1986: From the Book of Mormon we see the evils of secret combinations portrayed in graphic and chilling reality . . . . We should constantly ask ourselves, 'Why did the Lord inspire Mormon (or Moroni or Alma) to include that in his record? What lesson can I learn from that to help me live in this day and age?' (Conference Report, Oct. 1986, Ensign, Nov. 1986, pp. 6-7; also The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 59.) I see nothing here that refers to the President of the United States. The Book of Mormon reminds us to avoid the evils of Babylon. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
April 1989: Secret combinations . . . are built up to get power, gain, and glory of the world. (See Hel. 7:5; Ether 8:9, 16, 22-23; Moses 5:31.) . . . Secret combinations brought down both the Jaredite and the Nephite civilizations and [have] been and will yet be the cause of the fall of many nations. (See Ether 8:18-25.) (Conference Report, Oct. 1989, Ensign, May 1989, p. 6.) There is corruption in governement. It exists. And when the voice of the people choose evil the country is in big trouble. Who was President in 1989? Did President Bensen shake hands with that man? I think so. Was President Bensen also a Gadianton? Nope. And neither was the President of the United States. Prophets don't shake hands with murderers. Let that be a SIGN to you. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
Steve wrote: Below are six statements from President Ezra Taft Benson regarding a world- wide conspiracy that is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. These warnings have come to us from God through His living prophet. All six statements came after his call in 1985 to be President of the Church. They cannot be safely ignored. Without an understanding of these prophetic warnings, we cannot correctly interpret national and world events. President Bensen only taught that secret combinations exists in the earth and in the including the USA. He did NOT target individuals or call our elected leaders Gadiantons. I too admit that secret combinations exist in the earth but as I said, I'm NOT into conspiracy theories at all. That means I don't want to know about them and I'm not going to do anything about it either. Let the prophet go forth and root out the Gadiantons. I'm not getting involved. He can call fire down from heaven and destroy them. The First Presidency did not give the church instructions on how to go out and get the Gadiantons. Generalizations were made and we are reminded not to mix ourselves with Babylon. I feel the prophets should protect the saints and if they are inclined to muster a rebellion with the government--fine. Just count me out. President Benson's apostolic statements during the 42 years prior to his becoming President of the Church are also helpful as we seek to understand his prophetic statements on this important subject. Many of these apostolic statements were keynote addresses made with the full support, advice, and even explicit recommendation by President David O. McKay. Need two witnesses? Add David O. McKay as a second witness. During this time Elder Benson gave 15 General Conference addresses What have the prophets done to push a plan to get the Gadiantons? Shouldn't they be killed? They are murderers! As I say--I feel that President Bensen was making generalizations on how the saints should avoid the evils of the world. There was no formal campaign put in place to attack the Gadiantons as was done in the Book of Mormon. Today is a whole new ball game. Things are done differently. and President McKay, over a dozen on freedom, free enterprise, fiscal responsibility, the Constitution, and agency. They invariably tied these topics into showing the evils of secret combinations. (Sheri Dew, Ezra Taft Benson: A Biography, Deseret Book, 1987, pp. 366,367.) Finally, God does not call as Prophets men who teach false doctrine. Great! I'm glad that our prophets are patriotic and recognize the evils that exist in the world. Now--tell me which President of the USA was called a Gadianton by a church President? They don't do it and neither should you or John. It's bad form. And, Gary Smith said it's not right to do so and he is as strait as an arrow. :-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
destruction of the people, but notice how he singled out the secret combinations, just as the Church today could point out many threats to peace, prosperity, and the spread of God's work, but it has singled out as the greatest threat the Godless conspiracy. There is no conspiracy theory in the Book of Mormonit is a conspiracy fact. I seek to live by the principles of the Book of Mormon. A man can get closer to God by abiding the precepts therein than any other book. I'll leave the conspiracies to the prophets since they seem to know so much about them. If the Lord wills it-- let the prophets go out and fight our battles by approaching the beasts, false prophets, and Gadiantons. The power is in their hands. Notice how he said that they threaten the spread of God's work? Sound like Iraq to me. All in all you have failed to make your case. The church does not have a program in place for LDS people to get involved in conspiracy facts or theories. We are too busy raising our families and trying to be good. We are too busy trying to be politically correct so everyone will like the Mormons. Let the prophet go up against the beast! Count me out! Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
Paul are you a human being or a mule?? just kidding don`t get offended{:
Sandra
- Original Message -
From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
Steve wrote:
Below are six statements from President Ezra Taft Benson regarding a
world-
wide conspiracy that is increasing its evil influence and control over
America and the entire world. These warnings have come to us from God
through His living prophet. All six statements came after his call in
1985
to be President of the Church. They cannot be safely ignored. Without an
understanding of these prophetic warnings, we cannot correctly interpret
national and world events.
President Bensen only taught that secret combinations exists in the earth
and in the including the USA. He did NOT target individuals or call our
elected leaders Gadiantons. I too admit that secret combinations exist
in the earth but as I said, I'm NOT into conspiracy theories at all.
That means I don't want to know about them and I'm not going to do
anything about it either. Let the prophet go forth and root out the
Gadiantons. I'm not getting involved. He can call fire down from heaven
and destroy them. The First Presidency did not give the church
instructions on how to go out and get the Gadiantons. Generalizations
were made and we are reminded not to mix ourselves with Babylon. I feel
the prophets should protect the saints and if they are inclined to muster
a rebellion with the government--fine. Just count me out.
President Benson's apostolic statements during
the 42 years prior to his becoming President of the Church are also
helpful
as we seek to understand his prophetic statements on this important
subject. Many of these apostolic statements were keynote addresses
made
with the full support, advice, and even explicit recommendation by
President David O. McKay. Need two witnesses? Add David O. McKay as a
second witness. During this time Elder Benson gave 15 General Conference
addresses
What have the prophets done to push a plan to get the Gadiantons?
Shouldn't they be killed? They are murderers! As I say--I feel that
President Bensen was making generalizations on how the saints should
avoid the evils of the world. There was no formal campaign put in place
to attack the Gadiantons as was done in the Book of Mormon. Today is a
whole new ball game. Things are done differently.
and President McKay, over a dozen on freedom, free enterprise, fiscal
responsibility, the Constitution, and agency. They invariably tied these
topics into showing the evils of secret combinations. (Sheri Dew, Ezra
Taft
Benson: A Biography, Deseret Book, 1987, pp. 366,367.) Finally, God does
not call as Prophets men who teach false doctrine.
Great! I'm glad that our prophets are patriotic and recognize the evils
that exist in the world. Now--tell me which President of the USA was
called a Gadianton by a church President? They don't do it and neither
should you or John. It's bad form. And, Gary Smith said it's not right to
do so and he is as strait as an arrow. :-)
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
At 06:32 PM 10/15/2002, you wrote: Jan. 1988: The situation in the world will continue to degenerate unless we read and heed the words of God and quit building up and upholding secret combinations, which the Book of Mormon tells us proved the downfall of ancient civilizations. (The Book of Mormon Is the Word of God, Ensign, Jan. 1988, p. 5.) Does this make President Bush a Gadianton? NOPE! It simply says that we are to read the scriptures and to not give in to the tempations of Babylon or it will destroy us. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] By their fruits ye shall know them. The Bush administration is loaded with CFR members and is every inch an establishment man. http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2000/07-17-2000/vo16no15_bush.htm -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] HTML BODY a href=http://www.getusout.org;img border=0 src=http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif;/a PPBR /BODY /HTML / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
At 06:36 PM 10/15/2002, you wrote: Oct. 1988: Wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. (See DC 1:14- 16; 84:49-53.) It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. (See Ether 8:18-25.) (Conference Report, Oct. 1988, Ensign, Nov. 1988, p. 87; italics added.) No where here are individuals of our government targeted. It simply says that wickedness is expanding in all parts of society and that does not necessarily mean the government only. The prophet was not specific. I'm glad. because I don't want to know. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Prime targets of the Secret Combinations are the organs of power. Gain control of the government and you gain control of the rest of society. Helaman 6: 39 And thus they did obtain the sole management of the government, insomuch that they did trample under their feet and smite and rend and turn their backs upon the poor and the meek, and the humble followers of God. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] HTML BODY a href=http://www.getusout.org;img border=0 src=http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif;/a PPBR /BODY /HTML / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
At 06:53 PM 10/15/2002, you wrote: destruction of the people, but notice how he singled out the secret combinations, just as the Church today could point out many threats to peace, prosperity, and the spread of God's work, but it has singled out as the greatest threat the Godless conspiracy. There is no conspiracy theory in the Book of Mormonit is a conspiracy fact. I seek to live by the principles of the Book of Mormon. A man can get closer to God by abiding the precepts therein than any other book. I'll leave the conspiracies to the prophets since they seem to know so much about them. If the Lord wills it-- let the prophets go out and fight our battles by approaching the beasts, false prophets, and Gadiantons. The power is in their hands. Notice how he said that they threaten the spread of God's work? Sound like Iraq to me. All in all you have failed to make your case. The church does not have a program in place for LDS people to get involved in conspiracy facts or theories. We are too busy raising our families and trying to be good. We are too busy trying to be politically correct so everyone will like the Mormons. Let the prophet go up against the beast! Count me out! Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] President Ezra Taft Benson has reminded: The Prophet Joseph Smith is reported to have prophesied the role the priesthood might play to save our inspired Constitution. Now is the time to move forward courageouslyto become alerted, informed, and active. The Lord's priesthood has a mission to perform for liberty-loving people everywhere. We cannot, any more than Jonah of old, run away from our calling. (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 620; italics added.) On another occasion, President Benson said: Any Christian constitutionalist who retreats from this battle jeopardizes his life here and hereafter. Seldom has so much responsibility hung on so few, so heavily; but our numbers are increasing, and we who have been warned have a responsibility to warn our neighbor (see DC 88:81). (Ibid., p. 591.) [The] divine duty to be a faithful fighter for freedom requires that those of us who have been warned do our duty to warn our neighbor. (Ibid., p. 657.) Righteousness is important. In fact, President Benson has said repeatedly that righteousness is the one indispensable ingredient to liberty. (Ibid, p. 346; see also pp. 416 588.) How, asks the Prophet, can we best befriend the Constitution in this critical hour and secure the blessings of liberty? (Ibid., p. 621.) The Prophet answers his own question: First and foremost, we must be righteous. (Ibid.; italics in original.) It has been suggested, however, that the fundamental principles of the Constitution will be upheld and the nation will be saved as members of the Church simply live the gospel. President Benson has responded to this suggestion as follows: Satan is anxious to neutralize the inspired counsel of the prophet and hence keep the priesthood off balance, ineffective, and inert in the fight for freedom. He does this through diverse means, including the use of perverse reasoning. For example, he will argue, 'There is no need to get involved in the fight for freedom;all you need to do is live the gospel.' Of course this is a contradiction, because we cannot fully live the gospel and not be involved in the fight for freedom. We would not say to someone, -There is no need to be baptized-;all you need to do is live the gospel.' That would be ridiculous because baptism is a part of the gospel. How would you have reacted if during the War in Heaven someone had said to you, -Look, just do what is right; there is no need to get involved in the fight for free agency.' It is obvious what the devil is trying to do, but it is sad to see many of us fall for his destructive line. The cause of freedom is a most basic part of our religion. Our position on freedom helped get us to this earth and it can make the difference as to whether we get back home or not. (Ibid., p. 656.) And finally, President Benson has warned: One of our most serious problems is the inferiority complex which people feel when they are not informed and organized. They dare not make a decision on these vital issues. They let other people think for them. They stumble around in the middle of the road trying to avoid being 'controversial,' and get hit by traffic going both ways. In this mighty struggle each of you has a part. Every person on the earth today chose the right side during the War in Heaven. Be on the right side now. Stand up and be counted. (Ibid., p. 387.) -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] HTML BODY a href=http://www.getusout.org;img border=0 src=http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif;/a PPBR /BODY /HTML / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
Heck, Pres. Hinckley has even shaken hands with gasp Kofi Anan! Paul Osborne wrote: Jan. 1988: The situation in the world will continue to degenerate unless we read and heed the words of God and quit building up and upholding secret combinations, which the Book of Mormon tells us proved the downfall of ancient civilizations. (The Book of Mormon Is the Word of God, Ensign, Jan. 1988, p. 5.) Does this make President Bush a Gadianton? NOPE! It simply says that we are to read the scriptures and to not give in to the tempations of Babylon or it will destroy us. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
[ZION] The Rulers of Darkness
After careful consideration, Jon Spencer wrote: I take it, then, that (1) you strongly believe that Bush is controlled by the rich folks, Not rich folks. Evil, rich folks, folks who want to destroy our nation and especially our Constitution. and (2) those of us who approve of his approach in many things are also controlled by the rich folks, or are at least stupid enough to be fooled. Yes, that is exactly right. I think you (plural) are stupid enough to be fooled. That is exactly what I think. That is also what President Benson thought. He wasted his life in trying to mobilize the priesthood to overthrow the Gadianton Robbers in our government, and the members of the Church just dismissed him as an old fool who had funny right-wing notions about conspiracy. (2) is certainly the implication of your statement below. It wasn't implied. It was bluntly stated. I'm sorry that I'm being offensive, but sometimes it just cannot be avoided. Ignorant people are getting us into a war that is not in the national interest. And they are doing it because they are being manipulated by criminals, the rulers of the darkness of this world. That is what Paul was referring to when he wrote: 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (New Testament | Ephesians 6:11 - 12) John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** There is no conspiracy theory in the Book of Mormon --it is a conspiracy fact. (Ezra Taft Benson, April 1972) *** All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
