[Zope-dev] Re: Still i18n:attributes DeprecationWarning on Zope head!

2003-09-17 Thread Chris Withers
Godefroid Chapelle wrote:
Sidnei and I have corrected branch 2.7. Currently, DeprecationWarnings 
are meant to stay on HEAD. 
Indeed, this is a good thing...

Those Deprecation Warnings are emitted from TAL/TALGenerator.py.

Feel free to replace the message by something more explicit to you.
I know that, the error message is fine, but there are tests that need to be 
corrected. Since you know this syntax very well, please can you check out the 
Zope HEAD, search for tal:attributes and fix and broken tests? I think there are 
only a few files that need to be changed...

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] AW: [Summary] Caching prob with AHCM and headers

2003-09-17 Thread Chris Withers
Fred Yankowski wrote:
	python: content.meta_type == 'Filesystem Image'
Do you have any content with this metatype?
There is nothing in the portal_catalog with that meta_type.  But there
are lots of objects with that type:  most everything in
portal_skins/plone_images/, for example.
Oh, I getcha now... hmmm.. since these are served from disk anyway, what would 
be the benefit in caching them?

(Dim memories suggest that OFS.Image.Image does some work to circumvent caching, 
that's probabyl why they'er not being cached...)

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Etag support in page templates

2003-09-17 Thread Chris Withers
Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
+1

Along with that the MS Author Via header garbage should at least be 
governed by some configuration flag.
+ as many things as I'm allowed ;-)

Then I can finally stop patching production servers that serve up MS office 
files for download...

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Etag support in page templates

2003-09-17 Thread Chris Withers
Jamie Heilman wrote:
  Solution A)
 Solution B)
The correct answer, of course, is to do both...

Sorry, but not everyone fronts Zope with a proxy (yes, of coruse they should 
Jamie, but you have to understand not everyone is qutie as godlike as wants to 
get going as quickly as possible so they can try thing out, not as correctly as 
possible... hence the use case of Zope running standalone on a Win98 laptop ;-)

In addition, some people's proxies may not be capable of adding the required 
headers.

Finally, if support is added back, I'd like to see if via an API, so I can 
configure at the application level what headers are sent and from where.

I wonder if RESPONSE.setHeader() is sufficient for this?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Cache growing during single REQUEST

2003-09-15 Thread Chris Withers
Tim Peters wrote:
Probably none for many apps.  You'll be working with possibly non-current
data, so think of ways your apps could possibly be damaged by that.  For
example, you're Bill Gates, using ZODB to track all your assets.  A summary
report takes hours to generate, and by the time you get it, perhaps a few of
your billion-dollar overseas accounts were wiped out in the wee hours by an
adverse court judgment, but the total you get added in the account values as
of the time the report-generating transaction began.  Oops.  To the extent
that MVCC hides that you're working with non-current data, to that extent
also does an app relying on current data become vulnerable.  When Bill is
contemplating fleeing the country during turbulent times, he presumably
needs to know how much cash he has right now, not what he had last night.
Most apps aren't like that, but a one-size-fits-all policy for long-running
transactions (like Bill's) doesn't exist.
Ah, okay. That all makes sense...

Of course, Bill may appreciate having a report that says based on data no newer 
than X where X is the time the transaction to generate the report started, 
rather than no report at all due to lots of read conflicts ;-)

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Communication between Zserver and ZPublisher

2003-09-15 Thread Chris Withers
Alexander Schad wrote:
Hi all,
I'd like to understand how the communication between the ZServer and the 
ZODB
works. As far as i know the ZServer (Web server) talks to the ZPublisher 
(ORB)
to get the Requested Object. But do they communicate via tcpip sockets 
or unix sockets?
Neither, AFAIK.

I have a problem with hanging connections (for more than 1s) on the 
debug
screen in zopes control panel and when all connections are jammed zope 
freezes.
You using relational databases at all?

What do the hung threads say they're doing on the debug info panel?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Communication between Zserver and ZPublisher

2003-09-15 Thread Chris Withers
Alexander Schad wrote:
Yes an oracle DB and i'm using an external session service to store and 
retrieve
session data using the httplib.
I think using httplib to return session data is risk to put it mildly. I'd put 
money on the fact that it's either that or your ORacle query that's hanging...

What do the hung threads say they're doing on the debug info panel?


for example:

* Connections:
* Fri Sep 12 10:28:09 2003 (11650.65s) ({'HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING':
  'gzip,deflate,compress;q=0.9', 'SERVER_PORT': '',
'PATH_TRANSLATED': ...
Well, yeah, the result of that would be helpful...

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Catalog performance

2003-09-12 Thread Chris Withers
John Barratt wrote:
Chris Withers wrote:

John Barratt wrote:

docs = container.portal_catalog(meta_type='Document', ...)
for doc in docs:
obj = doc.aq_parent.unrestrictedTraverse(doc.getPath())
was_ghost = obj._p_changed is None
value = obj.attr
if was_ghost:obj._p_deactivate()
Bear in mind though, that you can only do this in an external method...
..or product code ;-)

Why can you only do this in an external method?  This idea (deactivating 
objects) is used quite a extensively in many parts of core zope such as 
OFS.ObjectManager as I mentioned in another post, and we use it in our 
product code quite a bit as well.
Nguyen was asking about a python script, you can't do these things there as the 
necessary methods don't have security declarations, and the methods start with 
'_', which I think the Zope Security Policy denies access to...

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Cache growing during single REQUEST

2003-09-12 Thread Chris Withers
Tim Peters wrote:
Multiversion concurrency control (MVCC for short) is the next step.  If no
other crises intervene, Jeremy and I will start implementing that on the
ZODB3 3.2 branch (most likely that branch -- can't swear to it) soon
(ditto).
From Jeremy's recent notes, I think it'll be the Zope 2.6 branch...

You can google on the phrase to get a ton of more-or-less abstract overviews
of the concept.  The short course in ZODB is that, when MVCC is in effect, a
read will return the state of the object as of the time the current
transaction began, even if the object has subsequently been modified by some
other transaction.
Sounds great :-) If you need any implementations testing, do let me know!

The overriding concern in all schemes is that you don't see inconsistent
data.
Yep.

The current ReadConflictError prevents you from seeing inconsistent
data by preventing you from loading objects that have changed since your
current transaction began.  
Indeed, butthat could eb a lot of things, and often in situations where ti 
wouldn't matter, as long as the data is consistent...

MVCC prevents it by (possibly) delivering
non-current object states.  I don't think either can be viewed as a pure
win.  The ways in which ReadConflictError loses are obvious to people here
because they've experienced them.  The ways in which MVCC loses will become
obvious later 0.9 wink.
Any ideas what they'll be yet?

Chris

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[Zope-dev] Still i18n:attributes DeprecationWarning on Zope head!

2003-09-11 Thread Chris Withers
Chris Withers wrote:
/stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:870: 
DeprecationWarning: Space separated attributes in i18n:attributes are 
deprecated (i18n:attributes=value title). Please use semicolon to 
separate attributes (i18n:attributes=value; title).
Come on!

Someone must have written this code!

What does it mean and what should it be changed to?

Chris :-(

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Re: [Zope-dev] Still i18n:attributes DeprecationWarning on Zope head!

2003-09-11 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote:
What does it mean and what should it be changed to?
I think the test must be updated.
Arg! I know that!

From what to what?!

As usual with deprecation warnings, the error is next to useless...
File None at row, column (1, 0) 
...very helpful.
Anyone have any idea where these are being emitted from?

Chris

PS: Wh yare depreaction warnings so useless? We have them from this stuff and 
from SearchIndex, neither of which tells you what's actually causing the 
problem. What would be the best way todo that?

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.7.0-b2 startup error on windows

2003-09-11 Thread Chris Withers
Michael Long wrote:
After some further investigation I have found that a product that I am
developing is causing the error to appear. The product appears to work
fine in zope. I can add it, create objects with it and the objects are
persistent. Can someone give me some advice on how to go about debugging
my product to identify the offending code? 
print statements or the python debugger, take your pick :-)

The error appears in the
following environments:
What's the error (type, value and traceback please...)

cheer,

Chris

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[Zope-dev] Zope HEAD test.py --dir doesn't work...

2003-09-11 Thread Chris Withers
...can anyone else confirm this?

It doesn't appear to ever find any tests.

How should it be used? (just to check I'm doing the right thing...)

cheers,

Chris

PS: CC'ing Jeremy in since he's the last person to touch test.py...

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Re: [Zope-dev] Strange bug(?) accessing File objects

2003-09-10 Thread Chris Withers
Bjorn Stabell wrote:

When accessing File objects that are not accessible to Anonymous (HTTP
and WebDAV View permissions not given), the Basic HTTP Auth window pops
up repeatedly even after the user has logged in using the cookie
crumbler method, and the user has permissions to view the file.
Clicking cancel actually lets the user view the file, but that's not an
acceptable solution, of course.
Hmmm, you absolutely positive that's a basic auth box?
Do you have MS Office installed on the machines where this happens?
What type of files does this occur with?
cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.7.0-b2 startup error on windows

2003-09-10 Thread Chris Withers
Michael Long wrote:

I have recently installed Zope 2.7.0-b2 on windows XP and am getting the
same error message as 2.7.0-b1 when starting zope. Is this truly an
error message or just informational?
2003-09-05T11:37:23 BLATHER(-100) ZODB Commiting subtransaction of size 5382
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File C:\Program Files\Zope-2.7.0-b2\lib\python\Zope\App\startup.py,
line 52, in startup
m=imp.find_module('custom_zodb',[getConfiguration().instancehome])
ImportError: No module named custom_zodb
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File C:\Program Files\Zope-2.7.0-b2\lib\python\Zope\App\startup.py,
line 52, in startup
m=imp.find_module('custom_zodb',[getConfiguration().instancehome])
ImportError: No module named custom_zodb
Try adding objects to your Zope, if that works and they stick around even after 
you restart Zope, then this isn't so much of a problem.

However, it's nasty, and I suspect you find you may not be able to store objects 
to disk, so this does need fixing :-(

Please file on http://collector.zope.org

cheers,

Chris

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[Zope-dev] i18n:attributes DeprecationWarning on Zope head? Space separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes=value title)

2003-09-10 Thread Chris Withers
The message makes sense, what should they be replaced with?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

==
Python Version:2.2.3 (#1, Jun 10 2003, 13:52:48) 
[GCC 2.95.2 2220 (Debian GNU/Linux)]

Modules included:
Zope (HEAD)
Running unit tests from /stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope
/stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:870: DeprecationWarning: Space 
separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes=value title). Please 
use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes=value; title).
File None at row, column (5, 3)
Attributes alt
  , DeprecationWarning)
/stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:870: DeprecationWarning: Space 
separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes=value title). Please 
use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes=value; title).
File None at row, column (1, 0)
Attributes name
  , DeprecationWarning)
/stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:862: DeprecationWarning: Space 
separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes=value title). Please 
use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes=value; title).
File None at row, column (14, 0)
Attributes name title
  , DeprecationWarning)
/stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:862: DeprecationWarning: Space 
separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes=value title). Please 
use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes=value; title).
File None at row, column (17, 0)
Attributes name title
  , DeprecationWarning)
/stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:870: DeprecationWarning: Space 
separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes=value title). Please 
use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes=value; title).
File None at row, column (1, 0)
Attributes value
  , DeprecationWarning)
/stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:870: DeprecationWarning: Space 
separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes=value title). Please 
use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes=value; title).
File None at row, column (1, 0)
Attributes alt
  , DeprecationWarning)
--
Ran 2288 tests in 1155.309s
OK

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Re: [Zope-dev] Cache growing during single REQUEST

2003-09-05 Thread Chris Withers
Toby Dickenson wrote:
On Wednesday 03 September 2003 12:15, Chris Withers wrote:

If the object load would cause the cache to go above it's maximum number,
*Number* isnt the the right parameter to control here. We need to limit 
the total amount of RAM. Objects are of variable size, and the largest ZODB 
objects are very much bigger than the average.
This is true, but isn't this much harder to do as we run into the same issue 
that people have trying to produce folderish objects for Zope that limit the 
size of their contained objects?

Hmmm, maybe not... could we make a note of the pickles size when the data is 
loaded and update that size when it's comitted? Is this the same as the 
in-memory size?

then boot an object out of the cache in order to make room for the new one.
That would have a bad effect on ReadConflictErrors.
Don't follow, can you explain?

Cache purging should only 
happen on transaction boundaries for storages where ReadConflictErrors are 
possible.
Can you put some brackets in that statement, I don't follow it..

I havent seen a mention of ulimit or autolance earlier in this thread They 
are mostly adequate protection against the work problems.
Do they kill the thread or the whole Zope? I'm also keen for users to nto get 
MemoryErrors, but to just have their request take much longer ( cache thrashing 
and the like...)

cheers,

Chris





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Re: [Zope-dev] Cache growing during single REQUEST

2003-09-04 Thread Chris Withers
Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote:
as a lower bound.  (Note that the cache is still allowed to grow 
indefinitely within the scope of a request, however.)
This is the single biggest cause of Zope becoming unresponsive for me:
people doing silly things that drag hordes of objects into memory i na single 
request,
Now that would be an interesting feature: An upper bound on the number
of objects a request is allowed touch, period. If a request requires
more than that it's rolled back.
Hmm, not so useful, is people just keep retryign the request.
What I'd like to see if the cache checking it's size on object load.
If the object load would cause the cache to go above it's maximum number, then 
boot an object out of the cache in order to make room for the new one.
So, you'd get slowness because of cache thrashing on THAT PARTICULAR REQUEST, 
but at least you'd be able to control the amount of memory Zope actually uses 
and other requests would stand a chance of beind processed normally.

snip very enlightening explanation of why a Python process using lots of 
memory, even for a short period of time, is a 'bad thing'

That was pretty informative, but does give even more of a good reason why we 
really need to be able to put a maximum upper bound on the amount of memory Zope 
can use at any one point...

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Cache growing during single REQUEST

2003-08-29 Thread Chris Withers
Shane Hathaway wrote:
as a lower bound.  (Note that the cache is still allowed to grow 
indefinitely within the scope of a request, however.)
Which is still pretty broken IMHO :-(

This is the single biggest cause of Zope becoming unresponsive for me:
people doing silly things that drag hordes of objects into memory i na single 
request, made worse by the fact that Python is extraordinarily bad at giving 
memory back to the OS after that request has been completed ;-)

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: tal i18n and ZopeStarter test failures

2003-08-29 Thread Chris Withers
Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:

Chris Withers writes:
  I see these tests fail on both Windows and Linux.
  
  What gives? Who checked in this code without running the tests?!

As I've indicated previously, I don't see these tests failing on Linux
at all.
Well, I see an identical set of tests fail and warnings from the stuff mentioned 
in the subject line on both Windows and Linux. That makes me kinda suspicious ;-)

Can I take a peak at the config.xml you're using for autotester.py?

What versions of python are you using for Python 2.1 and Python 2.2 resepctively?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: tal i18n and ZopeStarter test failures

2003-08-29 Thread Chris Withers
Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
Chris Withers writes:
  Can I take a peak at the config.xml you're using for autotester.py?
I'm running make ftest test from the command line.
Never heard of that, what does it do? What versions of Zope does it work with?

On Linux I'm using:

build
  locationZope/location
  command./configure/command
  options--with-python=/usr/local/bin/python2.2/options
/build
build
  locationZope/location
  commandmake/command
  optionstestinst/options
/build
test
 locationZope/location
 scriptutilities/testrunner.py/script
 options-v 0 -a/options
/test
Python Version:2.2.3

On Windows:

build
  locationZope/location
  commandsetup.py/command
  optionsbuild_ext -i/options
/build
test
 locationZope/location
 scriptutilities/testrunner.py/script
 options-v 0 -a/options
/test
Python Version:2.2.3

Now, there doesn't seem to by anything in there which is gonna make this kinda 
difference from my point of view. Hmmm, maybe a PyXML version or something?
Can you think of anything?

I have to admit, I'm at a bit of a loss, although I can assure you those tests 
are failing for me on both platforms with fresh checkouts :-S

cheers,

Chris

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[Zope-dev] Re: tal i18n and ZopeStarter test failures

2003-08-28 Thread Chris Withers
Hi,

I see these tests fail on both Windows and Linux.

What gives? Who checked in this code without running the tests?!

Chris

PS: Does anyone know why there's that SearchIndex warning appearing, but on 
Linux only?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

==
Python Version:2.2.3 (#1, Jun 10 2003, 13:52:48) 
[GCC 2.95.2 2220 (Debian GNU/Linux)]

Modules included:
Zope (HEAD)
Warning: no test input files found!!!
/stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/SearchIndex/__init__.py:19: 
DeprecationWarning: The usage of the SearchIndex package is deprecated since Zope 2.4.
This package is only kept for backwards compatibility for a while
and will go away in a future release.
Please use instead the re-factored modules in Products/PluginIndexes.

  warnings.warn(The usage of the SearchIndex package is deprecated since \
/stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:870: DeprecationWarning: Space 
separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes=value title). Please 
use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes=value; title).
File None at row, column (1, 0)
Attributes name
  , DeprecationWarning)
/stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:862: DeprecationWarning: Space 
separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes=value title). Please 
use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes=value; title).
File None at row, column (14, 0)
Attributes name title
  , DeprecationWarning)
/stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:862: DeprecationWarning: Space 
separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes=value title). Please 
use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes=value; title).
File None at row, column (17, 0)
Attributes name title
  , DeprecationWarning)
/stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:870: DeprecationWarning: Space 
separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes=value title). Please 
use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes=value; title).
File None at row, column (1, 0)
Attributes value
  , DeprecationWarning)
/stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:870: DeprecationWarning: Space 
separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes=value title). Please 
use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes=value; title).
File None at row, column (1, 0)
Attributes alt
  , DeprecationWarning)
/stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:870: DeprecationWarning: Space 
separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes=value title). Please 
use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes=value; title).
File None at row, column (5, 3)
Attributes alt
  , DeprecationWarning)
==
ERROR: testSetupServers (testStarter.ZopeStarterTestCase)
--
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File testStarter.py, line 166, in testSetupServers
  File /stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/Zope/Startup/__init__.py, 
line 186, in setupServers
raise ZConfig.ConfigurationError(socket_err
ConfigurationError: There was a problem starting a server of type HTTPServer. This 
may mean that your user does not have permission to bind to the port which the server is trying 
to use or the port may already be in use by another application. (Address already in use)
==
ERROR: test_fcgi_factory (test_config.ZServerConfigurationTestCase)
--
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File /stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/ZServer/tests/test_config.py, 
line 113, in test_fcgi_factory
factory = self.load_factory(\
  File /stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/ZServer/tests/test_config.py, 
line 48, in load_factory
StringIO.StringIO(text))
  File /stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/ZConfig/loader.py, line 45, 
in loadConfigFile
return _get_config_loader(schema, overrides).loadFile(file, url)
  File /stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/ZConfig/loader.py, line 55, 
in _get_config_loader
loader = ConfigLoader(schema)
  File /stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/ZConfig/loader.py, line 163, 
in __init__
if schema.isabstract():
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'isabstract'
==
ERROR: test_ftp_factory (test_config.ZServerConfigurationTestCase)
--
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File /stuff/chrisw/ZopeTests/sandbox/Zope/lib/python/ZServer/tests/test_config.py, 
line 

[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] CacheManager missing in 2.6.2b4 :-(

2003-08-14 Thread Chris Withers
[moving to Zope-Dev]

Jamie Heilman wrote:
That depends on the cache replacement policy you need.  If you're not
tied to LFU then you can just switch to using my MemoryCache product.
(With all the various caveats surrounding it, of course, python 2.2,
patching Zope, etc.)  
Why Python 2.2? What's the patching you do? What's 'etc'?

Have you submitted a collector issue for all this? If so, I might try and work 
on it some time, although it's not an area I specialise in :-(
I wonder if anyone on this list could help out?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.app() dance with 2.7

2003-08-14 Thread Chris Withers
Chris McDonough wrote:
What about when you're not debugging?

What about scripts that pump stuff into Zope and the like?
That would be zopectl run.
Hmmm... for trivialities sake, say what I had before was a script called 
x.py:

import Zope
app = Zope.app()
app.Catalog.catalog_object(app.document1)
What would x.py need to look like now, and how would I use zopectl run 
to run it?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope.app() dance with 2.7

2003-08-14 Thread Chris Withers
Chris McDonough wrote:
You can use zopectl debug to do this.
What about when you're not debugging?

What about scripts that pump stuff into Zope and the like?

cheers,

Chris

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[Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking

2003-08-02 Thread Chris Withers
Evan Simpson wrote:
It wouldn't -- this is a Zope 2 implementation.  OK, I know what you 
mean, but I don't know enough about the Zope 3 implementation to make an 
informed response.  Wouldn't Zope 2's lack of the whole component 
framework make this really hard?
Don't think so, the stuff we implemented in the TALES package was agnostic of 
component architecture...

Chris

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Re: ZEO caching, was Re: [Zope-dev] more Zope2.6 fun: ZEO clientdeath.

2003-08-02 Thread Chris Withers
Paul Winkler wrote:
snip
This is clearly problematic.  At what point is client 2 supposed to
see the new object??
I've seen this too. Where are we supposed to report these kinds of bugs now?

cheers,

Chris

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[Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking

2003-07-31 Thread Chris Withers
Evan Simpson wrote:
OK, I've checked in a sample implementation on evan-pathprefix-branch. 
 It allows for registering prefixes with:

from Products.PageTemplates.PathPrefixes import registerSubPathPrefix
registerSubPathPrefix('call',  call_compiler, call_handler)
How would this interact with the Adapters stuff implements in Zope 3's TALES?

I'm pretty sure the implementation there could be used to make this happen, if 
it was backported to Zope 2's TALES...

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking

2003-07-31 Thread Chris Withers
Shane Hathaway wrote:
Guys, that line of thinking is a distraction.  ZPT authors ought to 
learn Python.
I dunno about that, I would really like to see simple ZPT require no 
understanding of python...

language again.  If DTML used TALES expressions, it would be just as 
clean as ZPT.
I actually agree with that, but due to the likelyhood of that happening being so 
small, and the fact that backwards compatability will mean that the 
throat-slittingly bad stuff that happened as a result of DTML being used to do 
logic, and the bulk of really evil example stuff out there, I stick with my view 
that 'DTML sux'...

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking

2003-07-31 Thread Chris Withers
Jim Penny wrote:
Ahh, OK.  The damned here/context semantic trap again.  It is too late
to revisit, it is a done deed, it was a really good idea to call the
concept context, self, and here, depending on what kind of object you
are using, etc. But here suggests container more strongly to my mind
than container does! So, I try never to use it.
I believe 'here' is gone in Zope 3.
You're only likely to see 'self' if writing code on the filesystem.
And we're left with 'context' and 'container', which is pretty clear :-)
cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] ZCatalog Indexes tab crawls...

2003-07-29 Thread Chris Withers
Dieter Maurer wrote:

But overall, unless you have special (non DC derived) indexes,

That can well be the case...

Anyway, what are we going to do about this crawling tab?

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Object Type Assocation And Death To index_html

2003-07-29 Thread Chris Withers
Christopher N. Deckard wrote:
Can you put us to the underlying code and I'll take a look at what
needs to be done?  This is something that is going to be very useful
to us.
Have a trawl through the list archives, I'm afraid I can't remember where the 
code is...

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking

2003-07-29 Thread Chris Withers
Shane Hathaway wrote:
Literally, user_files/int:0 says get item 0 of user_files, 
interpreting '0' as an integer.  Technically, this could be interpreted 
as get the attribute named 0 or item 0, but an attribute name must be 
a string, so implicitly it really just says get item 0.

We've come up with a number of generally useful prefixes, BTW.  Off the 
top of my head:

call:   -- Call a named method
int:-- Look up an item by index
format: -- Perform simple formatting operations like format:money
zope:   -- Access a big Zope API
This rocks from my perspective :-)

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking

2003-07-29 Thread Chris Withers
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
AFAIK, Jim wants this for Zope3 for some time now. The idea is to 
implement this with named adapters.
The framework is implemented, as are one or two examples, IIRC...

The question remains how to implement this in Zope2 as we don't have 
adapters there.
The implementation in Zope 3's TALES engine doesn't rely on Adapters, take a 
look :-)

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking

2003-07-29 Thread Chris Withers
Evan Simpson wrote:

'key:' -- use item access with the prefixed string.
'index:' -- use item access with the prefixed integer.
'attr:' -- use attribute access with the prefixed string.
In each case, the path traversal fails if the specified access method 
fails, rather than trying other access methods.  This would allow 
options/a_mapping/key:items/index:0 rather than 
python:options['a_mapping']['items'][0].
What an extraordinarily good idea! Why has none of us thought of this before?

Like it :-)

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: TALES idea: tuple unpacking

2003-07-29 Thread Chris Withers
Paul Winkler wrote:

On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 11:07:20AM -0500, Evan Simpson wrote:

...  This would allow 
options/a_mapping/key:items/index:0 rather than 
python:options['a_mapping']['items'][0].
Why is that an improvement? 
Personally, I find it much easier to read...

I wonder what non-python'ers would think?


I guess I don't understand the goal. Are we trying to make it
so that zpt authors don't have to know any python?
For me, that would be ideal...

I really think that's a mistake.
What leads you to believe that?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] TALES wish : the thistemplate variable

2003-07-29 Thread Chris Withers
Shane Hathaway wrote:

We recently had a discussion about this:

http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/MacroParameters

The conclusion we came to is that we need a new kind of construct, 
tentatively called a subtemplate.  Subtemplates accept parameters and 
have full control over the variable namespace, including the template 
variable.
I'm swinging round to the ideas behind this proposal having initially been 
against it.
What's the status of implementation?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] TALES idea: tuple unpacking

2003-07-25 Thread Chris Withers
Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
- Use a Python-like sequence unpacking syntax.  This is probably most
  comfortable to template authors who are Python programmers first,
  and web guys (or gals!) second.
-0 for feature creap

- Use the namespace qualifiers to get an adapter to handle converting
  container lookup to a sequence indexing operation.  This plays off
  the machinery being built anyway, so is quite attractive, and
  doesn't affect the basic syntax or implementation of TAL, but only
  of the TALES expression engine.  This is very attractive because it
  pushes the support for this feature somewhere the application
  controls in as much detail as it wants.
+1 'cos I like the way this leverages the stuf we added to TALES at the last UK 
sprint...

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] ZCatalog Indexes tab crawls...

2003-07-21 Thread Chris Withers
Dieter Maurer wrote:
#objects suggests that it is the number of objects indexed by
this index. Who is interested in this information?
Well, it's been useful to be on several occasions when I've seen one index has 
less objects in than another...

Unless one has inhomogeous objects, almost all objects are indexed
by every index. Thus, #objects is likely to be similar for
many indexes.
Hmmm... I use ZCatalogs a _lot_ for searching over inhomogenous sets of objects. 
For example, that's it's primary role in the CMF...

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Object Type Assocation And Death To index_html

2003-07-21 Thread Chris Withers
Brian Brinegar wrote:
There is a proposal in the Zope 2.6 plan called Object Type Assocation 
and Death To index_html the status listed is incomplete. Is this 
still on the table for future versions of Zope? If part of the proposal 
was implemented what parts?

http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/ObjectTypeAssociationAndDeathToIndexHtml 
IIRC, the underlying code was implemented, but never plumbed through to the UI :-(

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] ZCatalog Indexes tab crawls...

2003-07-18 Thread Chris Withers
Casey Duncan wrote:
Actually I regard the current behavior as a feature. Using a stopwatch and a 
slide-rule I can estimate to within 100 objects, how many values are indexed 
in a catalog by measuring the time it takes to draw the indexes page.

Please do not remove this most valued feature!
I see now winks so am scared ;-)

Seriously though, it is kinda problematic when you want to get to the ZMI of an 
index and have to guess the URL 'cos hitting the indexes page cripples the server...

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] ZCatalog Indexes tab crawls...

2003-07-18 Thread Chris Withers
Dieter Maurer wrote:
I suggest to change the title to # index terms and
revert for the indexes to the old behaviour.
If that'll make it quicker, cool :-)

Others pointed out, that also the size determination for an
index may be expensive. However, it is at most linear in the number
(rather than quadratic) and all recently created indexes now
use BTrees.Length to maintain their size (which gives constant time).
Having a feeling how large an index is is valuable information.
Indeed...

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] ZCatalog Indexes tab crawls...

2003-07-18 Thread Chris Withers
Anthony Baxter wrote:
if there's no counter present:
   create one, do a count of the docs, initialise the counter
display counter
Sounds good, what needs to happen to make this happen?

Since this is a bug fix, can it go on the 2.6 branch?

cheers,

Chris

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[Zope-dev] ZCatalog Indexes tab crawls...

2003-07-17 Thread Chris Withers
Hi,

Has anyone noticed that the ZCatalog Indexes tab crawls if you have loads of 
objects indexed.

My guess is that some types of index take way too long to figure out how many 
objects are indexed. Anyone know which index types those could be?

BTW, would anyone object if I removed that object count, since it's not often 
very useful...

cheers,

Chris

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[Zope-dev] ZCatalog Indexes tab crawl reason confirmed

2003-07-17 Thread Chris Withers
Chris Withers wrote:
My guess is that some types of index take way too long to figure out how 
many objects are indexed.
This was confirmed by commenting out:

dtml-var numObjects missing=n/a

...in catalogIndexes.dtml

BTW, would anyone object if I removed that object count, since it's not 
often very useful...
so... would anyone mind?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] version status

2003-06-17 Thread Chris Withers
Jamie Heilman wrote:
100% correct.  Frankly I'm not entirely convinced anonymous users
should ever be able to open a zodb connection, 
Well, without that, they would never be able to view a page from a Zope site.
That would make it tricky to log in ;-)
Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] storing passwords

2003-06-16 Thread Chris Withers
Markus Bengts wrote:

I want to use the same usernames and passwords in Zope and some other
servers. The usernames and password digests are stored in a PostgreSQL
database, and a given username and password -pair can be checked with a
simple SQL-query.
SimpleUserFolder will let you do this with the addition of a single ZSQL query...

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] storing passwords

2003-06-16 Thread Chris Withers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Or SimpleUserFolder: create a user folder class in a Zope product that
subclasses both SimpleUserFolder and OFS.Folder.  Then put ZSQL methods and
a few TTW python scripts in the folder contents of an instance of this class
to make it work.  I've done something similar to this with relative success.
Hmmm... I prefer to just put the SQL method in the folder containing the SUF, no 
need for subclassing and knowing how to write Zope Products then...

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] RE: DBtab and BDBStorage

2003-06-12 Thread Chris Withers
Andrew R. Halko wrote:
Well, currently I cannot get python 2.2.3 to work with Plone.  
What do you need Python 2.2.3 for?

2.2.3 will support up to 4TB, which would solve all my problems, but it
doesn't work.
I have LFS in 2.1.3, have you tried recompiling Python 2.1.3 with LFS?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] RE: DBtab and BDBStorage

2003-06-12 Thread Chris Withers
(keep it on the list please)

Andrew R. Halko wrote:
Are you running Windows or Linux?  Windows and python do not support LFS
Why are you trying to run a production system on Windows?

Chris

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Re: small summary and big plea was:(Re: [Zope-dev] Versions: shouldthey die?)

2003-06-10 Thread Chris Withers
Shane Hathaway wrote:
My opinion on this is a little different.  It's quite easy for anyone to 
make mischief on any Zope server that lets people make even minor 
changes to the site, such as giving feedback, posting a discussion item, 
etc.  All you have to do is include a Zope-Version cookie in the request 
and your changes will place a lock on any objects that the request 
touches.  Zope doesn't even check the validity of the Zope-Version 
cookie.  Anyone who is not a ZODB expert would have a hard time bringing 
the site back to sanity.
This was my fear, and it's pretty shocking.

Maybe Oliver should do just such a thing on both collector.zope.org and 
zope.org, or maybe cbsnewyork.com to prove a point and then this issue will get 
the attention is deserves ;-)
(not Squishdot.org please, I'm not a ZODB expert and I don't haev the expertise 
to fix this bug :-S)

I think 2.6 ought to fix this by disabling recognition of the 
Zope-Version cookie and disabling the creation of Version objects, with 
an option to re-enable.
Yes indeed!

Chris

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[Zope-dev] Post-authentication hook

2003-06-10 Thread Chris Withers
Dieter Maurer wrote:
   When we had a post-authentication hook (a hook called by
   ZPublisher after authentication has been done),
   then we could check in this hook that the user has
   the right to enter the version.
When did we have one? Where did it go?

   Such a hook would be extremely helpful for other applications,
   too.
Yeah, a specific example that springs to mind is the selection of a CMF skin 
based on a user's role...

cheers,

Chris

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[Zope-dev] Image.py:File._upload_data

2003-06-10 Thread Chris Withers
It would appear that _read_data only returns a single Pdata object if you chuck 
it a large string rather than the linked list of Pdata objects it would if you 
chucked it a FileUpload instance.

Surely it should return a linekd list of Pdata objects in either case?

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Re: [Zope-dev] Versions: should they die?

2003-06-07 Thread Chris Withers
Dieter Maurer wrote:
If we really think, they were evil (I do not), we should make
them a separate product which can be downloaded and installed
by people who want it (like I do).
That seems like a good idea :-)

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Conflict Errors; how to track them down?

2003-06-04 Thread Chris Withers
Dieter Maurer wrote:
The attached patch to Zope/App/startup.py provides this
additional information.
Where's the patch?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Versions: should they die?

2003-06-04 Thread Chris Withers
Paul Winkler wrote:
Comments?  
They really should die. They cause nothing but pain and suffering.

Could we get at least some warnings in the ZMI before
2.6.2 final?
I do hope so. I'd also like to see them becoming an explicit configuration 
option in 2.7 and not appear in any UI's unless they have been explicitly turned 
on...

Perhaps Jeremy could run through his reasons for wanting them to stay around again?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Let's have another bug day

2003-04-01 Thread Chris Withers
Lennart Regebro wrote:
How about the next Wed after that (9/4)?
That works for me :-)


I'm fine with any of it. (Although the first wednesday is slightly better).
Ug! 9/4 just vanished for me... sorry :-S

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Let's have another bug day

2003-03-28 Thread Chris Withers
Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote:
How about the next Wed after that (9/4)?
That works for me :-)

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Let's have another bug day

2003-03-27 Thread Chris Withers
Florent Guillaume wrote:
Brian wrote:

It's been some time now since we last had a bug day. Should we have
another one?
Absolutely. How about Wed the 2nd?
FWIW I'll be unavailable that week.
Likewise... :-S

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Any thoughts on when Zope 2.7 beta1 might be available?

2003-03-26 Thread Chris Withers
Craeg K Strong wrote:
Thanks much for the quick response.   And good news, too!

Hum.  In your opinion, what is the best way to do this?   My constraints:

- I use both windows 2000 and Red Hat Linux 8
- I do *not* have a C/C++ compiler on Windows
I do ;-)

Anything in particular you'd like a build of?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Merging the new-install-branch

2003-03-19 Thread Chris Withers
Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
Chris Withers writes:
  Will I have to change the way Zope is built and/or the etsts are run?
Yes.

  If so, where could I find otu what they now need to look like?

There is a scenario for Linux in the newinstallbranch.xml in
Packages/TestScripts; I'll test it again before the merge takes
place.
...it doesn't appear to work on Windows, since VC++ doesn't provide 'make'.

I don't know about the Windows scenario, but it's probably OK for
now.  It may need to change in the future (I'll try to help as much as
possible; Tim just tried the new-install-branch tests on Windows and
we found one buglet there).  I won't be in front of a Windows box
myself until tonight.
Well, I tried subbing 'nmake' for 'make' in the Linux scenario, and got this:


cvs export: Updating Zope/var
U Zope/var/.cvsignore
U Zope/var/Data.fs.in
Running: c:\python22\python -c import sys; print sys.version
Running: configure
Running: nmake build
'configure' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.
Microsoft (R) Program Maintenance Utility   Version 6.00.8168.0
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corp 1988-1998. All rights reserved.
NMAKE : fatal error U1073: don't know how to make 'build'
Stop.

I'm guessing that the real culprit here is 'configure' not working.
How did Tim get it to work?
cheers,

Chris

PS: For safety's sake, I'll disable the Zope HEAD tests tonight, pendign this 
isssue being resolved...

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Re: [Zope-dev] Merging the new-install-branch

2003-03-18 Thread Chris Withers
Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
I'm planning to merge the new-install-branch efforts recently
discussed on this list into the Zope 2 trunk tomorrow.  There will be
things to do after the merge, but the basic functionality will be more
easily testable and easier to contribute to.
Will I have to change the way Zope is built and/or the etsts are run?

If so, where could I find otu what they now need to look like?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] How to trigger Zope externally (mail)

2003-03-10 Thread Chris Withers
Ross Boylan wrote:
On Wed, Feb 26, 2003 at 05:37:17PM -0800, Andy McKay wrote:

Or just write a simple HTTP post using Python. Have a look around for 
the MailIn Product, or CMFMailIn which does this very simply and works 
fine for low volume traffic (eg: fine listening to [EMAIL PROTECTED]).
Thanks.  I borrowed from CMFMailIn; I couldn't find the MailIn product.
http://www.zope.org/Members/NIP/ZMailIn/

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Vote] PEP308 voting began

2003-03-10 Thread Chris Withers
Paul Winkler wrote:
+sys.maxint

ugly python expressions in ZPT is to me a clear signal that
you need to refactor and that's a GOOD THING.  And refactoring
is easy when you can just start by copy / pasting the
python expressions into a Script.  If they were some
new-fangled if: then: else: syntax in TAL, you'd have to
rewrite from scratch...  and we're right back in the
mess we got into with DTML: the poor developer is forced
to learn many ways of doing the same thing.
+OO (that's infinity in case it's not clear...)

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Stupid dtml-if comparision

2003-03-10 Thread Chris Withers
David Cain wrote:
I'm trying to compare two number, or at least I think they're numbers.
You should be asking this on [EMAIL PROTECTED]

If I do:
   dtml-var i
   dtml-var j
   dtml-if expr=i == j
 Equal block
   /dtml-if
I and J print out the same, but do not compare to be equal since Equal
block string doesn't print.
...and this should be in a python script!

print i
print j
if i==j:
 print Equal block
return printed
DTML sucks for this, as you can see, because it evaluates things in interesting 
and unexpected ways...

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] [Vote] PEP308 voting began

2003-03-05 Thread Chris Withers
Guido van Rossum wrote:
IMO TALES should solve this for itself by introducing an if/then/else
expression form rather than depending on Python.  If you can have a
not:.. expression, surely you can have an if:..:then:..:else:..
expression.
I think not: is dubious and I'd find if-then-else way over the lines...

Chris

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[Fwd: Re: [Zope-dev] [Vote] PEP308 voting began]

2003-03-05 Thread Chris Withers
I think this was for the list...

Chris

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] [Vote] PEP308 voting began
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 08:42:10 -0500
From: Brian Brinegar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Not sure if this applies, but lets say I have something like:

div tal:repeat=item container/myList
  div class=selectedItem tal:condition=item/isCurrentItem 1/div
  div class=regularItem tal:condition=not: item/isCurrentItem 2/div
/div
When this is viewed outside of TAL, say by a designer in Dreamweaver,
both styles are apparent and their presentation can be changed by the
designer. Where something like this:
div tal:repeat=item container/myList
  div class=selectedItem tal:attributes=class ternary:
item/isCurrent: string: selectedItem | string: regularItemItem/div
/div
would not include both versions of the presentation when viewed outside
of TAL. I've always assumed any kind of if/else combo would break the
change design after implementation aspect of page templates. However a
little extra work for designers saves a ton of duplication for
developers, so I think we should go with it. I also agree that it should
be an addition to TAL rather than using whatever python ends up with.
That's my few cents.
-Brian

Chris Withers wrote:

 Guido van Rossum wrote:


 IMO TALES should solve this for itself by introducing an if/then/else
 expression form rather than depending on Python.  If you can have a
 not:.. expression, surely you can have an if:..:then:..:else:..
 expression.


 I think not: is dubious and I'd find if-then-else way over the lines...

 Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] Session Event Listeners

2003-02-27 Thread Chris Withers
Beef a wrote:
Does anyone have any idea how to register session event listeners in 
Zope 2?
Chris McDonough is tha man when it comes to this. It's probably all documented 
in the online Zope Book by now, or in the Zope distribution somewhere. In any 
case, he'll be able to tell you wehre to find it...

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Index errors revisited: KeywordIndex unindex_objectcould not remove documentId -883140122 from index ComponentVersions. Thisshould not happen.

2003-02-27 Thread Chris Withers
Jean Jordaan wrote:
Dieter:

The reason is very simple:
Indeed! You make it clear as day :)

The fix: fix KeywordIndex such that is removes duplicates
  from _unindex[documentId].
We're looking to see if we can fix it for us ..
Is this fixed in 2.6.x?

If not, please file a collector issue when you have a patch and I'll make sure 
it's applied on the 2.6 branch as well as the HEAD.

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.5.1 with ZEO 2.0.2

2003-02-20 Thread Chris Withers
Brian R Brinegar wrote:

Hello,

We are trying to upgrade the ZEO component of our Zope 2.5.1 system from
ZEO 1.0 to ZEO 2.0.2. We are using Python 2.1.3, everything is compiled
from source.


I'm pretty sure ZEO 2 requires Zope 2.6.x...

cheers,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] How can I tell what a Zope Process is doing?

2003-02-19 Thread Chris Withers
Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote:


http://www.zope.org/Members/4am/debugspinningzope

http://www.zope.org/Members/mcdonc/Products/ForensicLogger


Thanks for the links :-)

cheers,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] How can I tell what a Zope Process is doing?

2003-02-19 Thread Chris Withers
Toby Dickenson wrote:

If you have got a live one then Control Panel / Debug Information will 
show current  requests.

Yaknow, I never even noticed that and it could be exactly what I'm after...

thanks,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] How can I tell what a Zope Process is doing?

2003-02-19 Thread Chris Withers
Dieter Maurer wrote:


When your Zope comes back again (i.e. stops iterating finally),
you can use my ZopeProfiler
  http://www.dieter.handshake.de/pyprojects/zope
to learn what is using time (not memory!) in your Zope instance.


I know about your excellent profiler already, but the problem here is memory 
rather than CPU usage.

cheers,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] 2.6.1b2?

2003-01-24 Thread Chris Withers
Guido van Rossum wrote:


If only it were that easy.  Everybody wants no new features except
for the one feature they desperately want to have without upgrading to
the next feature release. :-(


Still, we're back to the situation where it's been weeks since the last release, 
and there's nothing we (the public) can do about that :-(

cheers,

Chris

PS: How's the new zope.org coming?


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: AdaptableStorage

2003-01-22 Thread Chris Withers
seb bacon wrote:

I'd prefer just to have a method somewhere that, as Shane suggested, 
could be hit by URL, etc.

A whole seperate server seems like overkill...

But what about, for example, databases which don't have an efficient way 
to do callbacks to external applications?  You may have to do a SELECT 
id FROM tblObjects WHERE timestamp  some_time or a similar kludge from 
a polling server.  You may want this server to reside at the same 
location as the RDBMS, rather than as a thread in Zope.

Well, if by server you could mean script that gets run by cron every 1 minute 
and hits a URL in Zope if something has changed, then I might be in agreement ;-)

I'm worrying that if we are not to be restricted to Oracle or bleeding 
edge kernels, the notification part of the cache invalidation scheme may 
be (a) kludgy, (b) inefficient, and (c) utterly different in design 
between different storages.

I think this is as such is life problem. Provided AdaptableStorage provides 
some way (exposed url?) for an external process to say that things have changed, 
I think that's the best form of flexibility we can provide.

cheers,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: AdaptableStorage

2003-01-21 Thread Chris Withers
seb bacon wrote:

Since every storage will have its own unique notification scheme, which 
may be more or less inefficient (worst case scenario, periodic polling 
of entire storage for recently modified items), it might make sense to 
have a notification server.  It would make it simpler for users to 
create custom storage transaction alert handlers.

For different cache invalidation scenarios, Zope could poll the server 
as well as get poked.

I'd prefer just to have a method somewhere that, as Shane suggested, could be 
hit by URL, etc.

A whole seperate server seems like overkill...

cheers,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: AdaptableStorage

2003-01-20 Thread Chris Withers
Shane Hathaway wrote:

I'm thinking about real-time updates.  When the underlying data 
changes, you'd like Zope to see the change immediately.  If indefinite 
delays are OK, then AdaptableStorage already does enough: it raises a 
ConflictError if you try to write changes based on old data.

I think it depends on how you're using it, so I guess thsi wants to be 
configurable. Is that possible?

The idea I like the most for relational databases is to ask the RDBMS 
what the ID of the last transaction was.  If Zope missed a transaction, 
it should flush all caches.  This will work if the database is 
infrequently changed by external applications, or if Zope is accessed 
infrequently.

Indeed.


If external applications make a lot of changes, however, and Zope needs 
good performance at the same time, then both Zope and the external 
applications need to update a per-object transaction ID.  Then, at the 
beginning of transactions, Zope would invalidate only the recently 
updated objects.  Hmm, perhaps smarter RDBMSs could make it easy to keep 
transaction IDs updated using triggers.  (This solution could also 
replace both ZEO and ZRS, BTW. ;-) )

This sounds cool, and the best option, when it's possible...


On the filesystem, the problem seems much more difficult, since there 
are no transactions.  You'd like the kernel to send Zope a message 
anytime someone modifies a file in a certain hierarchy, but that would 
require kernel hacking.

How about having a seperate process which just watched the files and notifed 
Zope when they changed?

For that case, I'm thinking that requiring external apps to touch a 
special file somewhere might be the right thing.  At the beginning of 
each transaction, if Zope sees a change to the file, it flushes its cache.

I don't think you can rely on this :-(


I'm hoping to present a complete tutorial on AdaptableStorage at PyCon 
DC 2003.

I hope you'll make this availabel for those of us who can't make it...

cheers,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope and Python compatibility

2003-01-13 Thread Chris Withers
Lennart Regebro wrote:


Of course, if the requirement could be 2.1.3 *or* 2.2.2, that would be nice,
but is that realistic?


This would be best and I don't see why it shouldn't happen...

cheers,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope-Checkins] CVS: Zope/lib/python/TAL - TALInterpreter.py:1.69.6.10

2002-12-23 Thread Chris Withers
Andy McKay wrote:

Collector number 735: http://collector.zope.org/Zope/735

This was prompted by some bugs people found with Plone. For a two character
fix that to me looked like a simple oversight I didn't bother with a unit
test.


*bzzzt* bad.

Everything should be unittested, please correct ;-)

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] manage_roleForm (bug?)

2002-12-08 Thread Chris Withers
Brian R Brinegar wrote:


Now, my question is if this is a bug within RoleManager or a bug within
the individual products?


I may be wrong, but I think this might be a reflection on the way the Zope 
security system works...

cheers,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] Bugfix release?

2002-11-28 Thread Chris Withers
Guido van Rossum wrote:


That means we either waste a lot more time doing releases, or the
releases become a lot more shoddy, hardly more than a snapshot from
CVS.  Neither sounds attractive, sorry.


...or the release process becomes automated/documented enough that neither of 
these happen ;-)

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] Bugfix release?

2002-11-28 Thread Chris Withers
Casey Duncan wrote:


I'm assuming we will not have bug day before 2.6.1, but perhaps one shortly 
thereafter is in order?

I'll upgrade to 2.6.2 when it comes out then ;-)

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] Bugfix release?

2002-11-27 Thread Chris Withers
Andreas Jung wrote:

Someone posted already a fix for this problem. It should not be hard to fix
this single problem by exchanging the DateTime.py file on your sites


I'll echo my earlier comment: Whatever happened to release early, release often?

Why is this not happening with Zope?

cheers,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] Bugfix release?

2002-11-27 Thread Chris Withers
Guido van Rossum wrote:


Why is this not happening with Zope?


Because it doesn't apply.  Release early, release often is for
bleeding edge developers.  

Says who? I thought the idea behind it was to get the releases out early, so you 
can find the bugs faster and get the releases more stable more quickly...

I guess what I'm saying is that for a version 2.x.y, x should behave as you 
describe while y should go up as often as a bug is discovered and fixed...

cheers,

Chris


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[Zope-dev] KeywordIndex errors

2002-11-27 Thread Chris Withers
Hi, started seeing quite a few of these showing up in one of our server's logs:

--
2002-11-27T16:16:26 ERROR(200) KeywordIndex unindex_object could not remove 
documentId -869933785 from index companies.  This should not happen.

exceptions.KeyError: -869933785

This is Zope 2.6.0, hence the total lack of traceback :-(

Anyone got any idea what's going on here?

cheers,

Chris




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Re: [Zope-dev] PathIndex unindex fix

2002-11-22 Thread Chris Withers
Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote:


If you are to ignore errors, please ignore specific errors that are
known to happen. Please don't use a generic except.


...or re-raise only ConflictErrors. Hmmm... this issue is perhaps deeper than it 
first appeared. Are conflict errors swallowed by the other indexes? Should they be?

I wonder if the discussion about swallowing ConflictErrors (on zodb-dev IIRC) 
was ever resolved?

cheers,

Chris


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[Zope-dev] Security problems importing from python package.

2002-11-21 Thread Chris Withers
Hi,

I'm trying to get stripogram working from Script(Pythons). I thought I had it, 
but it appears I don't.

I added the following in the __init__.py of the stripogram package:

try:
from AccessControl import ModuleSecurityInfo,allow_module
except ImportError:
# no Zope around
raise
else:
allow_module('stripogram')
ModuleSecurityInfo('stripogram').declareObjectPublic()
ModuleSecurityInfo('stripogram').declarePublic('html2text', 'html2safehtml')

I don't think either the allow_module or the declareObjectPublic() should be 
necessary. However, the declareObjectPublic at least made this test pass:

from Products.PythonScripts.PythonScript import PythonScript
theScript = PythonScript('test')
theScript.ZBindings_edit({})
theScript.write(from stripogram import html2text\nreturn 
html2text('ihello/i'))
theScript._makeFunction()
self.assertEqual(theScript(),'hello')

But even adding the 'allow_module' won't let the following Script (Python) 
created through the ZMI work:

from stripogram import html2text

The error I get is:

 Error Type: ImportError
Error Value: import of stripogram is unauthorized

  File \lib\python\Products\PythonScripts\PythonScript.py, line 302, in _exec
(Object: tester)
(Info: ({'script': PythonScript instance at 012CB4D8, 'context': 
Application instance at 012B92D8, 'container': Application instance at 
012B92D8, 'traverse_subpath': []}, (), {}, None))
  File Script (Python), line 1, in tester
  File \lib\python\AccessControl\ZopeGuards.py, line 153, in guarded_import
ImportError: (see above)

What am I doing wrong? Why doesn't this code behave as advertised in
Products/PythonScripts/module_access_examples.py?

cheers,

Chris



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Re: [Zope-dev] PathIndex unindex fix

2002-11-21 Thread Chris Withers
Sidnei da Silva wrote:


Now that you mentioned, I got an error while trying to index NZO using
ZCTextIndex, so I guess it is suffering from the same issue. Anyone
can confirm?


No, no, failure during _indexing_ is a good thing (tm).

Failure during _unindexing_ is a bad thing (r).

cheers,

Chris


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[Zope-dev] Re: [ZODB-Dev] deadlock prevention for ZODB3 / Zope 2.6

2002-11-13 Thread Chris Withers
Jeremy Hylton wrote:

We recently discovered that ZODB3 applications, like Zope 2.6, can
deadlock when run in a system that uses multiple storages.  This was a
fundamental design flaw in ZODB that, happily, has a simple fix.


Would this fix also help with this problem:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=550246group_id=15628atid=115628

cheers,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] strange overflowerror long int too large to convert

2002-11-05 Thread Chris Withers
Tobias Herp wrote:

Hi,

we have a Zope-based (v2.5.0) editorial system running on a server of our
customer's; it uses a ZUserFolder to store eMail addresses of the top-level
users. Last week, an error turned up whenever the system tried to
automatically send a notification eMail, which said:

Error Type: OverflowError
Error Value: long int too large to convert


This reminds me of a thread taking place on [EMAIL PROTECTED] right now, maybe 
join there having read the archives?

cheers,

Chris - http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zodb-dev/2002-November/003511.html


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Re: [Zope-dev] blackmusic.ch mailing list memberships reminder

2002-11-01 Thread Chris Withers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your blackmusic.ch
mailing list memberships.  It includes your subscription info and how
to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list.


Fantastic, this is the second mailman list I've seen being used to send spam.
Still, at least it's easy to unsubscribe ;-)

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] 2.6.1 Plan?

2002-10-31 Thread Chris Withers
Jeffrey P Shell wrote:


But release often is a BITCH for software configuration management.  
Good for developers, bad for deployers.

Why?

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] My 2.6.0 feature patch didn't make it!?

2002-10-31 Thread Chris Withers
Brad Clements wrote:

But the passive port range patch didn't make it into 2.6


Do you have CVS access?


No. I emailed both sets of patches to .. Brian (?) at the same time.


Suggest you apply for it. DIY is the best way of making sure stuff gets in :-)

cheers,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] 2.6.1 Plan?

2002-10-30 Thread Chris Withers
Ross J. Reedstrom wrote:

It what world do you live, and can I move there? 

You miss the point ;-)

The flurry to get features into a 'stable' release is what I was on about.
If you flurry, the release won't be stable.

I like the pattern of having stable releases and CVS or nightly builds for 
people who want the latest and greatest. That way everyone gets to contribute 
easily and freely and yet we still get truly stable versions.

Maybe not to the extent of having seperate 'dev' and 'stable' streams a la 
Linux, but that's a good feeling in essence.

Still, the overarching thing is release early and often. The fewer features in 
each release, the fewer problems of I need this feature, but that means I also 
have to accept this one that I don't trust

cheers,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] My 2.6.0 feature patch didn't make it!?

2002-10-30 Thread Chris Withers
Brad Clements wrote:

http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/Zope2.6/ProposedFeatures

But the passive port range patch didn't make it into 2.6


Do you have CVS access?

cheers,

Chris


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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [ZODB-Dev] change date vs. save date

2002-10-29 Thread Chris Withers
Jim Fulton wrote:

For example, Zope 3 tracks creation and modification times that have 
nothing
to do with database time stamps. 

I agree. Is there any reason for ZODB to actually keep timestamps rather than 
just use serial version ids?

(I understand calls to get the system tiem are expensive, incrementing an 
integer number by one should be somewhat less expensive...)

cheers,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope-Coders] DateTime screwup on 2.6 branch andHEAD

2002-10-29 Thread Chris Withers
Lennart Regebro wrote:

From: Casey Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED]


This is in no way a defense of the release tactics for 2.6.0, but
these types of changes should be done on their own branch and
then merged in atomically to avoid exactly this type of issue.



They were. There were two independant, but related, bugs. Both made in their
own branch, and merged in atomically.


Personally, I'd put this down to bad luck. Bugs are bugs and you don't know 
they're there until you notice them. I don't think there was anything that could 
have reasonably been done to prevent this.

That said, can we see if we can actually get 2.6.1 out within a week (OK, lets 
be sane and say month ;-).

This is open source, lets release early and often...

cheers,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] 2.6.1 Plan?

2002-10-29 Thread Chris Withers
Chris McDonough wrote:

FWIW, the reason that there is a flurry of activity before any release
is because people want to see features in a stable release version and
by nature (IMHO) programmers are procrastinators. ;-)


This doesn't fit with normal open source practice. Why are we starting to 
operate like this?

cheers,

Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope-2.5.1 restart failed

2002-10-14 Thread Chris Withers

Andre Schubert wrote:
 
 I have a installation without chroot or jail, everything is normal.

Sounds like a job for http://collector.zope.org...

cheers,

Chris


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[Zope-dev] Security Testing

2002-10-14 Thread Chris Withers

Hi,

I'd like to build a suite of security tests for a product I'm writing using 
unittest.py.

Is this possible?

I thought about using newSecurityManager with various known users, and 
restrictedTraverse to get to the appropriate methods, but then how do I test if 
those methods are callable?

cheers,

Chris

PS: How is all this being tackled in Zope 3?


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