Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
This will be the last post from on this thread. We moved all discussions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign up at: http://www.thingamy.com/mailman/listinfo/mk-zprod-devel/ Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Stephan Richter wrote: > All what the wizard will do is provide the user with a nice > interface/GUI to enter the information. I will then pass the > information to the above mentioned management methods and the > MakeZProduct Product will then generate the code and save it to the > file system. Oki. What I currently have is a Zope product that you instanciate (maybe in the context of the wizard) and that instance then provides you with those methods you wanted. The instance is the only thing persisten, since all else will be written out to files (it can quite easily be done to write them as persistent DTML Documents or somesuch if one wanted to "pause" the setup or something, but that's outside the scope of round 1). > BTW, we will assume that the user that runs the Zope engine has write > access to /ZOPE/lib/python/Products. Yeah. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Stephan Richter wrote: > I think we need to setup a separate mailing list for this project. Can > you do that? I think the discussion is getting too specific now. We can use the mk-zprod-devel mailinglist at thingamy.com: http://www.thingamy.com/mailman/listinfo/mk-zprod-devel/> ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
> > BTW, we will assume that the user that runs the Zope engine has write > > access to /ZOPE/lib/python/Products. > > > >Don't forget about those of us that use $INSTANCE_HOME/Products Oops, that what I meant to say. have access to the Products directory :-) Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
On 28 Jun 2001 13:09:56 -0500, Stephan Richter wrote: > > >I just realised something. How do you need this to work? With regards to > >the wizard. Should mk-zprod produce the files and add them to a folder in > >itself? Or should it return everything for the wizard to handle? > > All what the wizard will do is provide the user with a nice interface/GUI > to enter the information. I will then pass the information to the above > mentioned management methods and the MakeZProduct Product will then > generate the code and save it to the file system. > > BTW, we will assume that the user that runs the Zope engine has write > access to /ZOPE/lib/python/Products. > Don't forget about those of us that use $INSTANCE_HOME/Products ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
>I just realised something. How do you need this to work? With regards to >the wizard. Should mk-zprod produce the files and add them to a folder in >itself? Or should it return everything for the wizard to handle? All what the wizard will do is provide the user with a nice interface/GUI to enter the information. I will then pass the information to the above mentioned management methods and the MakeZProduct Product will then generate the code and save it to the file system. BTW, we will assume that the user that runs the Zope engine has write access to /ZOPE/lib/python/Products. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
Erik, I think we need to setup a separate mailing list for this project. Can you do that? I think the discussion is getting too specific now. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Stephan Richter wrote: > For example we would need: > > manage_make_initializeProduct(...) > manage_make_addClass(...) > manage_make_addProperty(...) > manage_make_addIcon(...) > manage_make_addSubClass(mainClass, ...) I just realised something. How do you need this to work? With regards to the wizard. Should mk-zprod produce the files and add them to a folder in itself? Or should it return everything for the wizard to handle? ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Stephan Richter wrote: > Well, but where are the images coming from. The Wizard is a Web > Frontend, so we would need to upload the images or copy them from > somewhere else from the file system. >From the filesystem of the user? > BTW, the /img directory is non-standard. Better would be www/ since other > products use it as well. Sure thing. (Although, www/ indicates to me .html pages and various other things too.) > In fact, we only need to think about adding them with the right permissions > to the directory. A piece of code in the __init__.py will do the rest: Yes. This is what mk-zprod does today :) > 2. When the icon is uploaded, save it somewhere temporarily. At the end, > when all questioning is done, add everything at once. This has the > advantage that you can freely move back and forth until you finish the wizard. Sounds good :) > > def __init__(self, attrib1, attrib2='something'): > > """doc string""" > > self.attrib1 = attrib1 > > self.attrib2 = attrib2 > > Because this is horribly ugly and unflexible when you have 20 attributes. I > always have to change several places, if I modify, add or edit an > attribute/property. Could you give me an example of how you would do it? (Then I could modify the mk-zprod code.) > Well, we can describe that right away in the standard property dictionary > form; then we do not need to parse or do anything else. Nice :) > >Well, I was, but I'm moving to France the 8. of July and I've just come > >home (to Norway) from England. England, Norway, France, Germany, France > >all in just three weeks is a bit much :) (Oh, and I have to get an > >apartment in Antibes.) > > Okay. It would have been a good place to discuss this further. Morten Petersen from Thingamy will be there, I'm sure he has some thoughts about it. > Now, I looked at the mk-zprod code again. We need to make it a real > Zope Product with a nice management API, so that I can use the > functions from the Wizard. I'll start typing right now. I'll probably have something premature by tomorrow. > If we define this API clearly, Ok. I'll just write up mk-zprod as a Python Product and the API is defined as I go. Then, you could have a look and we can unite on one API and I make the necessary changes in the code. Yeah? Unless, of course, you have some specific requests right away. > Once the work, twice the reward! ;-) I like. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
>Python Products.
Ok.
> > 3. Okay, here we should have a loop of enter images with upload
> > functionality. The only problem is where do we save them in the mean time?
>
>Upload? Upload to where?
>
>mk-zprod (as it works today) creates a directory on your filesystem, and
>in that directory (which you just copy to your Products directory) it
>creates an img/ directory and puts them there.
Well, but where are the images coming from. The Wizard is a Web Frontend,
so we would need to upload the images or copy them from somewhere else from
the file system.
BTW, the /img directory is non-standard. Better would be www/ since other
products use it as well.
In fact, we only need to think about adding them with the right permissions
to the directory. A piece of code in the __init__.py will do the rest:
# load all the icons automatically
from Globals import package_home, ImageFile
misc_ = {}
path = os.path.join(package_home(globals()), 'www/')
for file in os.listdir(path):
if file[-3:] == 'gif':
misc_[file[:-4]] = ImageFile('www/%s' %file, globals())
>Or are you asking where the wizard should store them? (Which I thought it
>didn't have to.)
Well, you can take two approaches here:
1. As soon as the user uploads the icon, we are adding it to the directory.
This is a problem, if you want to undo some or all of the wizard actions,
but is much easier to implement.
2. When the icon is uploaded, save it somewhere temporarily. At the end,
when all questioning is done, add everything at once. This has the
advantage that you can freely move back and forth until you finish the wizard.
> > 5. Yep, how could that look like; should I provide users with a text area
> > or what?
>
>In the dtml/ directory of mk-zprod you have Add2.dtml, that's the page the
>user is redirected to after adding an object. Maybe a text area with a
>suggestion (like Add2.dtml) in it?
Sounds good.
>Hubbliski. We could provide them with standard classes as defaults
>(Persistent, Explicit/Implicit, AccessControl) and suggest some
>others. I'm not too sure about the ZClass thing.
Okay, for the first version that will probably suffice.
> > I usually add the 'default' key to each property dictionary and write
> > a two liner in the __init__ method to generate the properties with
> > their default...
>
>Why not just have:
>
> def __init__(self, attrib1, attrib2='something'):
> """doc string"""
> self.attrib1 = attrib1
> self.attrib2 = attrib2
Because this is horribly ugly and unflexible when you have 20 attributes. I
always have to change several places, if I modify, add or edit an
attribute/property.
>which could come from such a description:
>
> attribs:
> name: attrib1 default value: None
> name: attrib2 default value: "something"
Well, we can describe that right away in the standard property dictionary
form; then we do not need to parse or do anything else.
> > 9. Again, that would be a loop. But my question here would be: Are you
> > using sub-classes that much. I have written one so far in all the
> > products ...
>
>My latest projects sub-classes left, right and center. If we just have
>the logic for a recursive loop there the user could add as many as s/he
>wanted without it being much more work for us.
Okay, I just wanted to make sure it really has the additional usage, for
the extra effort.
>Well, I was, but I'm moving to France the 8. of July and I've just come
>home (to Norway) from England. England, Norway, France, Germany, France
>all in just three weeks is a bit much :) (Oh, and I have to get an
>apartment in Antibes.)
Okay. It would have been a good place to discuss this further.
Now, I looked at the mk-zprod code again. We need to make it a real Zope
Product with a nice management API, so that I can use the functions from
the Wizard.
For example we would need:
manage_make_initializeProduct(...)
manage_make_addClass(...)
manage_make_addProperty(...)
manage_make_addIcon(...)
manage_make_addSubClass(mainClass, ...)
If we define this API clearly, then we can use it later to automatically
generate ZClasses as well. Once the work, twice the reward! ;-)
Regards,
Stephan
--
Stephan Richter
CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student
Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management
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Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
At 02:23 PM 6/28/01 +0200, Erik Enge wrote: >On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Erik Enge wrote: > > > name: attrib1 default value: None > > name: attrib2 default value: "something" > >No, that wouldn't work, because you might want None as the default for >that attribute. Maybe Nothing, or somesuch then. None == Nothing. Some default we need to have, otherwise we cannot initialize the attribute. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Erik Enge wrote: > name: attrib1 default value: None > name: attrib2 default value: "something" No, that wouldn't work, because you might want None as the default for that attribute. Maybe Nothing, or somesuch then. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Stephan Richter wrote: > Here my list of questions: > > 1. Will we create ZClass or Python Products? Python Products. > >Product-name > > 2. I think it should ask some more meta-data information here, such as > License, Author(s), Description Yepp :) > >A list of images (like dtmldoc.gif and such) > > 3. Okay, here we should have a loop of enter images with upload > functionality. The only problem is where do we save them in the mean time? Upload? Upload to where? mk-zprod (as it works today) creates a directory on your filesystem, and in that directory (which you just copy to your Products directory) it creates an img/ directory and puts them there. Or are you asking where the wizard should store them? (Which I thought it didn't have to.) > >If you want to set a default Catalog name > > 4. Okay, I do not work with the catalog; what do you need, just a name or > the path? I think the WizardTreePage will help here. Just the name. :) > >If you want nice redirection after adding objects > > 5. Yep, how could that look like; should I provide users with a text area > or what? In the dtml/ directory of mk-zprod you have Add2.dtml, that's the page the user is redirected to after adding an object. Maybe a text area with a suggestion (like Add2.dtml) in it? > 7. Yeah, this is all the meta-data here, so that could go on one page. > But you are missing a list of Base Classes. I have no clue where to > get these from. I guess it is time to look into the ZClass code, but I > think they use a separate Mechanism. The problem with the current > product registry is that NO classes are listed anywhere, only their > constructors, which is nothing worth in this case. Hubbliski. We could provide them with standard classes as defaults (Persistent, Explicit/Implicit, AccessControl) and suggest some others. I'm not too sure about the ZClass thing. > 8. Should that just use the PropertyManager attribute _properties? Yepp. > I usually add the 'default' key to each property dictionary and write > a two liner in the __init__ method to generate the properties with > their default... Why not just have: def __init__(self, attrib1, attrib2='something'): """doc string""" self.attrib1 = attrib1 self.attrib2 = attrib2 which could come from such a description: attribs: name: attrib1 default value: None name: attrib2 default value: "something" What do you think? > 9. Again, that would be a loop. But my question here would be: Are you > using sub-classes that much. I have written one so far in all the > products ... My latest projects sub-classes left, right and center. If we just have the logic for a recursive loop there the user could add as many as s/he wanted without it being much more work for us. > Are coming to Berlin? Well, I was, but I'm moving to France the 8. of July and I've just come home (to Norway) from England. England, Norway, France, Germany, France all in just three weeks is a bit much :) (Oh, and I have to get an apartment in Antibes.) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
Here my list of questions: 1. Will we create ZClass or Python Products? >Product-name 2. I think it should ask some more meta-data information here, such as License, Author(s), Description >A list of images (like dtmldoc.gif and such) 3. Okay, here we should have a loop of enter images with upload functionality. The only problem is where do we save them in the mean time? >If you want to set a default Catalog name 4. Okay, I do not work with the catalog; what do you need, just a name or the path? I think the WizardTreePage will help here. >If you want nice redirection after adding objects 5. Yep, how could that look like; should I provide users with a text area or what? >if you want to include standard headers in your dtml files Okay. >a list of classes 6. Yes, we will start a loop here asking for class information. > class name > class type > class icon name 7. Yeah, this is all the meta-data here, so that could go on one page. But you are missing a list of Base Classes. I have no clue where to get these from. I guess it is time to look into the ZClass code, but I think they use a separate Mechanism. The problem with the current product registry is that NO classes are listed anywhere, only their constructors, which is nothing worth in this case. > catalogaware or not (or may just methods to index/reindex th object) Okay. > a list of attributes > attribute name > attribute type > attribute default value 8. Should that just use the PropertyManager attribute _properties? I usually add the 'default' key to each property dictionary and write a two liner in the __init__ method to generate the properties with their default... > a list of subclasses > subclass name > subclass type > subclass icon name > a list of attributes > 9. Again, that would be a loop. But my question here would be: Are you using sub-classes that much. I have written one so far in all the products ... Okay, I think we got a flow together... If you have a "couple more minutes" , some sort of storyboards would be nice... I started already building a wizard, but I dunno how much time I got today, since I am leaving town tomorrow and won't return until the ZopeCon in Berlin is over. Are coming to Berlin? Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
>>If I have some time left at all tonight, I will make a wizard that could >>be the initial front-end to mk-zprod. Could you give me a short list of >>things you would like to ask the user? > >Hm. a simple collection of questions? Certainly not. >I talking of a whole mechanism, where you group input >and output into contexts. From application view it >would be an API, it schould work no matter if the input/ >output is generated from and to HTML, WML, XML or even >stand-allone GUIs. >I'm thinking of semantic groups of input, output and types >and ranges and default values including naming conventions. Well, that sounds more like what SmartObjects tries to do. But I am still confused. As Erik wrote later, can you give examples? Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Tino Wildenhain wrote: > Hm. a simple collection of questions? Certainly not. I talking of a > whole mechanism, where you group input and output into contexts. From > application view it would be an API, it schould work no matter if the > input/ output is generated from and to HTML, WML, XML or even > stand-allone GUIs. Could you give me an example of how this would work? ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Stephan Richter wrote: > If I have some time left at all tonight, I will make a wizard that > could be the initial front-end to mk-zprod. Could you give me a short > list of things you would like to ask the user? Product-name A list of images (like dtmldoc.gif and such) If you want to set a default Catalog name If you want nice redirection after adding objects if you want to include standard headers in your dtml files a list of classes class name class type class icon name catalogaware or not (or may just methods to index/reindex th object) a list of attributes attribute name attribute type attribute default value a list of subclasses subclass name subclass type subclass icon name a list of attributes a list of subclasses ... For example. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
Hi, --On Mittwoch, 27. Juni 2001 15:54 -0500 Stephan Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 10:45 PM 6/27/01 +0200, Erik Enge wrote: >> On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Tino Wildenhain wrote: >> >> > if there are always many objects to create, may be it would be better >> > to have a generic mechanism for asking users and represent >> > app-/management interfaces rather then copying all the stuff over and >> > over? >> >> That's what mk-zprod does. Or rather, will do once I've made the >> interface friendlier. (If I didn't misunderstand you.) > > If I have some time left at all tonight, I will make a wizard that could > be the initial front-end to mk-zprod. Could you give me a short list of > things you would like to ask the user? Hm. a simple collection of questions? Certainly not. I talking of a whole mechanism, where you group input and output into contexts. From application view it would be an API, it schould work no matter if the input/ output is generated from and to HTML, WML, XML or even stand-allone GUIs. I'm thinking of semantic groups of input, output and types and ranges and default values including naming conventions. Regards Tino ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
At 10:45 PM 6/27/01 +0200, Erik Enge wrote: >On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Tino Wildenhain wrote: > > > if there are always many objects to create, may be it would be better > > to have a generic mechanism for asking users and represent > > app-/management interfaces rather then copying all the stuff over and > > over? > >That's what mk-zprod does. Or rather, will do once I've made the >interface friendlier. (If I didn't misunderstand you.) If I have some time left at all tonight, I will make a wizard that could be the initial front-end to mk-zprod. Could you give me a short list of things you would like to ask the user? Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
>if there are always many objects to create, may be it would be >better to have a generic mechanism for asking users and >represent app-/management interfaces rather then copying all >the stuff over and over? Well, the current wizard version (which I hope I will be able to release in a couple more hours) already has some Page Templates that do some of the common tasks. I think we could easily map this to the management interface. And I like the idea a lot. So often I am simple copying a DTML File just to change a name or so. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Tino Wildenhain wrote: > if there are always many objects to create, may be it would be better > to have a generic mechanism for asking users and represent > app-/management interfaces rather then copying all the stuff over and > over? That's what mk-zprod does. Or rather, will do once I've made the interface friendlier. (If I didn't misunderstand you.) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
Hm. Wizard? if there are always many objects to create, may be it would be better to have a generic mechanism for asking users and represent app-/management interfaces rather then copying all the stuff over and over? Regards Tino --On Mittwoch, 27. Juni 2001 08:54 -0500 Stephan Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> So what does it do? :) > > It is a general Wizard Builder with which you could build a Wizard that > asks for all the necessary information to auto-generate a Python Product > (for example). > >> What I'm thinking is this: maybe use SmartWizard to meta-program you >> Python Product; that creates a definition file(s) of some sort which is >> sent to mk-zprod; mk-zprod consults the WarpFramework do make sure we >> don't create too much work for ourselves, and also provides us with nice >> default HTML/DTML-pages, and finally, Formulator could be used to do >> validation on those HTML/DTML-pages. > > Exactly that. But the SmartWizard would provide you with a framework to > build this "Make New Python Product Wizard". If I get far enough, I will > release the pre alpha today, just you see the proof of concept... > >> Or are we talking past eachother here? > > Nope, we don't. But SmartWizard is a more general tool than you were > thinking of it. > >> It would be very cool to have a tool like that. > > I agree. It is annoying to code all that stuff all the time. > > Regards, > Stephan > > -- > Stephan Richter > CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student > Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management > > > ___ > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
At 06:05 PM 6/27/01 +0200, Erik Enge wrote: >On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Stephan Richter wrote: > > > Exactly that. But the SmartWizard would provide you with a framework > > to build this "Make New Python Product Wizard". If I get far enough, I > > will release the pre alpha today, just you see the proof of concept... > >Cool! I'll be looking forward to it. I have already a decent version running now. I want to add the Formulator and SmartSections WizardPage Templates to the system and make it better looking before the release tonight (or more in the morning). Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Stephan Richter wrote: > Exactly that. But the SmartWizard would provide you with a framework > to build this "Make New Python Product Wizard". If I get far enough, I > will release the pre alpha today, just you see the proof of concept... Cool! I'll be looking forward to it. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
>So what does it do? :) It is a general Wizard Builder with which you could build a Wizard that asks for all the necessary information to auto-generate a Python Product (for example). >What I'm thinking is this: maybe use SmartWizard to meta-program you >Python Product; that creates a definition file(s) of some sort which is >sent to mk-zprod; mk-zprod consults the WarpFramework do make sure we >don't create too much work for ourselves, and also provides us with nice >default HTML/DTML-pages, and finally, Formulator could be used to do >validation on those HTML/DTML-pages. Exactly that. But the SmartWizard would provide you with a framework to build this "Make New Python Product Wizard". If I get far enough, I will release the pre alpha today, just you see the proof of concept... >Or are we talking past eachother here? Nope, we don't. But SmartWizard is a more general tool than you were thinking of it. >It would be very cool to have a tool like that. I agree. It is annoying to code all that stuff all the time. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Stephan Richter wrote: > Okay, okay...I stayed up and typed it down pretty quick (2 hours). I > attached it to this mail. It is plain text, since I was too lazy to do > it in HTML. It might be a little unstructured, but I am too tired to > fix that now. So what does it do? :) What I'm thinking is this: maybe use SmartWizard to meta-program you Python Product; that creates a definition file(s) of some sort which is sent to mk-zprod; mk-zprod consults the WarpFramework do make sure we don't create too much work for ourselves, and also provides us with nice default HTML/DTML-pages, and finally, Formulator could be used to do validation on those HTML/DTML-pages. Or are we talking past eachother here? It would be very cool to have a tool like that. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
> > I will upload the documents tomorrow though, since it is late here and > > I have to do some work still. > >Ok. I'll begin thinking about all the stuff I dreamt of making mk-zprod >into. Okay, okay...I stayed up and typed it down pretty quick (2 hours). I attached it to this mail. It is plain text, since I was too lazy to do it in HTML. It might be a little unstructured, but I am too tired to fix that now. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management SmartWizards - A framework to generate the Every-Day-Wizard === by Stephan Richter in June 2001 Version 0.1 The following parts of a *default* WizardPage are defined: +-+--+ | | | |Logo | Header and Long Description| | | | +-+--+ | | | | Wizard |Wizard| | | | | Overview | Main | | | | | |Window| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +-+--+ | Status Messages | ++ | Navigation Bar (buttons to move) | ++ Therefore there are the following standard methods defined in a wizard: wizardHeaderwizardStatus wizardFooterwizardNavigationBar wizardOverview wizardMainWindow wizardDescription Functionalities of these methods: = wizardOverview: --- - should display a list of all pages (display short description/title) - needs to know about the active page to highlight it Default Output: A numbered list of all the pages with the active one highlighted. wizardDescription: -- - shows the 'long' description of the active page - there might be also a static part, depending on the application wizardStatus: - - status messages/information o Errors by form validation o administrative messages (required fields, ...) o wizard information (page x out of y) wizardNavigation: - - there should be only buttons here! - maybe we should define where the buttons are, since grouping some of them will be necessary wizardMainWindow: - - here goes the real page information - there can be: forms, other actions, information and everything mixed Classes === SmartWizard --> Folder -- - we are going to use Sessions (CoreSessionTracking) and Versions to keep track of the user's status. - Since it will be too hard to give all information first and then commit everything at the end, we decided to use versions, which we can always not commit, if a roll- back is requested. - All the other info is saved in the session, since several people at once could use the wizard at once. - Also, we will keep track of the active page by simply storing the index of the page inside the Pages folder; since it is an OrderedFolder we can do this safely. - methods: wizardHeader wizardFooter wizardCSS wizardStatus wizardNavigationBar wizardOverview wizardMainWindow wizardDescription wizardSession - Contains all the session data information Object is of type SessionDataManager. Versions - Folder that contains versions of the people which use the wizard. Object is of type Folder. Pages - The container of all the WizardPages that being displayed during the Wizard. Object is of type OrderedFolder (see Zope.org). - attributes: activePageIndex - specific value is stored in the session
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
At 06:40 PM 6/26/01 -0700, Andy McKay wrote: > > >What is ZPI? > > > > Typo: Read API > >Its the Zope version of an API :) If you want to see it. Yeah, we just created another three-letter acronym for this world!!! So everyone, it is not anymore API, but ZPI...geez, I am starting to get silly, that means I need some sleep... Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
> >What is ZPI? > > Typo: Read API Its the Zope version of an API :) Cheers. -- Andy McKay. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
>What is ZPI? Typo: Read API > > Well, the SmartWizard would be like the frontend for it. If you want > > to see an early non-SmartWizard-framework version, look at the > > ProiektorInstaller. Just imagine you can build installers like that > > in Zope. I hope to be done with the first version on Thursday. > >Great, will you let us know? Of course. ;-) Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
> > 1. We are building a wizard that asks you all the necessary questions > > to generate a basic class framwework. > >Sounds exactly like my mk-zprod. Cool. I am going to look at it as soon as I have a second to breath. Okay, okay, you got me I looked at the code pretty quick. I like it from the first view. It is very clean and easy to see the functionality. I think, if you can define an ZPI for your communication, then it will be no problem to put a SmartWizard Class Generator Front-End on top of this product. > > If anyone is interested in helping developing that tool (which will be > > released under the GPL as all of the iuveno products), then I can make > > an electronic copy of my personal notes and I setup a CVS. > >If we are working to solve the same problem I'd love to lend a hand. If >you can, it would be great to see your personal notes. mk-zprod is just >an easy way to set up classes that are compliant to the Zope API, but I >have some thoughts how one could make it into a pluggable api/language >compliant-code-generator, but that might be overkill. It's definantly an >overkill :). Well, the SmartWizard would be like the frontend for it. If you want to see an early non-SmartWizard-framework version, look at the ProiektorInstaller. Just imagine you can build installers like that in Zope. I hope to be done with the first version on Thursday. I will upload the documents tomorrow though, since it is late here and I have to do some work still. I think that we will be able to combine the two products easily, once the SmartWizard is in a semi-stable state. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
> If DTML programming / interface design is so simple, and cheap, why not > automate it? (Strike two for low cost development). > > I've been trying to save some time (and my fingers!) by building a RAD > framework, named the WarpFramework [1], which deals with the low level > complexity of properties and how to display / manipulate them in addition > to other common programming tasks.. this could perhaps blend in easily.. What does it do already? (O.k., I know the answer: Read the code ;-)) > Say for example that we could provide the odd designer with the > possibility of simply pushing widgets and displays (generated > automatically of course) around the page, and changing colors and > backgrounds (CSS); then we have a tool that designers would love as well. That's what we at iuveno are doing right now. SmartSections (to be released soon) are simple page elements like headers, HTML text, images, etc. that can be moved around, added, copied and pasted, deleted etc. A ZClass-based proof-of-concept is in the Kontentor 1.x framework. The whole thing will then be embedded into SmartPortals, which are configurable web pages where you can move around boxes etc. Remember I presented the idea in Amsterdam? We are very open to ideas and help! > Minimize the time of people. Period. :-) Yep! > ..lessen the complexity and add to robustness. Yep! Joachim ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
>Well, it's quite logical: UML can be used to map out both software and >business development (they are, after all, two sides of the same story), >the designer can twiddle-n-polish the interface and the programmer can >take care of 'exceptional tasks' that can't easily be taken care of via >the UML interface without adding too much complexity. I agree. The facts are: - A simple DTML Zope programmers costs are okay and maybe below programmer average. - A good Zope/Python programmer will cost above average. - A good Zope/Python System-Designer is very expensive. Because of that you try to minimize the Designer's time by providing a nice tool (UML tool, such as ObjectDomain). Then you try to minimize the Python Programmers time by auto-generating the framework and only make him to fill the methods with life. Now, because we have a UML diagram, the DTML programmer can start right away with programming the DTML and HTML around the data/functional model, since the API is clear. This way you optimized several things: - Minimize the time of the expensive people. - Minimize the development time, since many people can work parallel. - Because of the above, you minimize risk and money spent. And voila, you have a well functioning RAD team.* * This assumes that your team works together well. ;-) Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
>The UML interface may be a bit far fetched, but that's because nobody has >done it yet. ;-) Well, read my other mail. ;-) Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
Hello everyone, I gotta join this discussion. iuveno was also thinking about a tool that would replace ZClasses, since their performance is far too bad. We had a not so good experience with the ZClass-based Kontentor and now that the first part is rewritten in Python we can see the speed-ups (the performance increase can be measured in multiples - real tests need to be done). The reason - in my opinion - that ZClasses are so slow are the huge amount of Acquistion lookups and the save rendering. You can often code things smarter in Python using much less of the "safe" Zope environment, but still providing safety through specific commands. I think Formulator is a great example of how safe the Python programming can be. There are two thoughts here: 1. We are building a wizard that asks you all the necessary questions to generate a basic class framwework. This wizard (which can be used in many other fields - such as installers - as well) is currently being built. We use Formulator a lot and I support the development of it as much as I can (it is a cool product with many cool features). If anyone is interested in helping developing that tool (which will be released under the GPL as all of the iuveno products), then I can make an electronic copy of my personal notes and I setup a CVS. Formulator at Zope: http://www.zope.org/Members/faassen/Formulator Formulator at Sourceforge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/formulator/ 2. Phillip Auersperg from bluedynamics.com uses ObjectDomain quiet heavily, since it has a nice JPython API that comes with it. He already built a reverse-engineering tool for ZClasses and is now going to write another tool to automatically generate DBObjects from a UML diagram in ObjectDomain. I am very excited about this tool, since it will make the already fast DBObject development even faster. As soon as Formulator goes into 1.0, I am going to think about binding the Formulator to DBObjects, so you can quickly generate forms for each object. In Berlin in two weeks, we are going to discuss this integration in more detail... Bluedynamics URL: http://www.bluedynamics.com DBObjects/SmartObjects URL: http://demo.iuveno-net.de I am very glad to see that we all have the same vision. We all just need to work more together (especially me included). This way we can have some strikes against the big ones... Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
> > One thing Id been musing about for a while was a ZClass > Python Product > > script that took your ZClass and set up your basic python product for you. > > It would only work for simple for things like permissions, properties, basic > > methods... Then ZClasses could be an easier springboard into python products > > for those new to them. > > *ponder-wonder* I think this is functionality I could easily add to > mk-zprod. I might just do that. Yeah! One more thing I dont have to feel guilty about not doing... Just noticed mk-zprod, cool. Cheers. -- Andy McKay. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Something better than ZClasses (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zcatalog bloat problem (berkeleydb is a solution?))
One thing Id been musing about for a while was a ZClass > Python Product script that took your ZClass and set up your basic python product for you. It would only work for simple for things like permissions, properties, basic methods... Then ZClasses could be an easier springboard into python products for those new to them. Cheers. -- Andy McKay. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
