Paul Everitt wrote:
> Martijn Faassen wrote:
> > The addition of the Perl stuff will be bad if the Zope source will be
> > hacked up in various places in order to support this. I can be _good_ if
> > this means a focus on providing clean interfaces first, and a more
> > componentized architecture.
Martijn Faassen wrote:
>
> Jimmie Houchin wrote:
> > I would like to echo what Dieter wrote here.
> >
> > We need to encourage people who write products or other extensions to
> > Zope in writing cleanly, clearly defined extensions which can be used in
> > a black box manner.
>
> Sure, but we al
Martijn Faassen wrote:
> The addition of the Perl stuff will be bad if the Zope source will be
> hacked up in various places in order to support this. I can be _good_ if
> this means a focus on providing clean interfaces first, and a more
> componentized architecture. I.e. there's a focus on integ
Paul Everitt wrote:
[snip]
> As the person that made the decision, I can at least testify that no
> ulterior motives were behind it. Still, Zope is a community thing, and
> we here at DC need our heads bopped on a regular basis, lest we ever
> forget it.
>
> Consider our heads bopped. :^)
And t
Martijn Pieters wrote:
[snip]
> Now, please, can we stop this whole silly argument? Can't we talk about old
> terminal types or something, instead?
That invocation only works on comp.lang.python. :)
Regards,
Martijn
___
Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROT
Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> > Where do you intend on going? If there was something better out there
> > you'd be humping its leg already.
>
>Thanks goodness, I am not using Zope on production servers. I use Zope
> only to experiments and understand the technology. Looked good until
> yesterday.
Jimmie Houchin wrote:
> I would like to echo what Dieter wrote here.
>
> We need to encourage people who write products or other extensions to
> Zope in writing cleanly, clearly defined extensions which can be used in
> a black box manner.
Sure, but we also need to encourage people to study each
I would like to echo what Dieter wrote here.
We need to encourage people who write products or other extensions to
Zope in writing cleanly, clearly defined extensions which can be used in
a black box manner.
If each product had a management interface in which it's options could
be configured and
Roman wrote:
> Perhaps this is a disadvantage to the DC company-owned open-source
> project model. They will make bad decisions based on potential
> profit.
I wanted to address this specifically.
This is, in the abstract, a legitimate concern that comes up repeatedly
about Netscape/Mozilla.
Evan Gibson writes:
> What happens when we have 4 or 5 different types of methods (perl, php,
> python, c, pascal, whatever...) and through multiple people working on a
> site or a product you suddenly have them all used and have to suddenly
> upkeep something you have no idea about because so
On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 02:55:52PM +, Oleg Broytmann wrote:
>Thanks goodness, I am not using Zope on production servers. I use Zope
> only to experiments and understand the technology. Looked good until
> yesterday.
>On production servers I use pure Python CGIs powered by ZTemplates. I
Ken Manheimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 25 May 2000, Roman Milner wrote:
>
> > Well, my point is that I don't think you will be able to ignore it.
> > Your boss will give you a product to maintain that includes someone
> > else's perl code - sooner or later.
My boss isn't going to sudden
On Sat, 27 May 2000, Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote:
> | > So, I believe this is enough reason for me to start considering other
> | > web technologies for me, and my company.
> |
> |I am considering dismounting the Zope bandwagon, too :( It was good
> | techonology, but what will come?
>
> Whe
+[ Oleg Broytmann ]-
|
| > So, I believe this is enough reason for me to start considering other
| > web technologies for me, and my company.
|
|I am considering dismounting the Zope bandwagon, too :( It was good
| techonology, but what will com
On 25 May 2000, Roman Milner wrote:
> Here is why I'm bummed about this. Like other people who have posted
> - after years of coding perl for money, I have vowed never to do it
> again. (I find that it produces encourages unmaintainable code.)
> Also, I think my main marketable skill now is Zope
Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote:
[...]
> The sad fact of the matter is that there is more concern for people's
> personal welfare, than that of the project as a whole. When in fact, what
> is good for Zope is good for the community.
>
> Zope is open source, if you don't like Perl, and it morally of
> Actually, I'd like to see Zope interface with "more" languages (Java, C++
> etc.) There are a number of areas that Python performs poorly (I'd prefer
> to write encryption algorithms in C, personally) and there are areas where
> Python performs very well (OO modelling). I think if people are u
Roman Milner wrote:
> For zope, you will just have to
> "know zope" - employers will see "zope" and a language just like
> parents see "understanding computers" as knowing how to fix their windows
> boxes :)
I feel like I "know zope", but I don't have a deep understanding of
python, or a compreh
On Thu, May 25, 2000 at 09:17:16PM +0200, Dieter Maurer wrote:
> > What are the benefits?
> > - being able to use DBI when I have Zope Database connectors?
> > - finally having people doing obfuscated perl contests again in their
> > products, when I was just glad to having gotten rid of all t
+[ Roman Milner ]-
|
| Well, I don't think that analogy applies directly. People will ask,
| "do you know zope", and in order to say yes - I will need to know
| perl. The answer "yes except for the perl bits" won't fly with an
| employer.
|
| Linu
>>> Ken Manheimer wrote
> (Do you think the perl folks are, conversely, going to feel they have
> to know python? I have to say, i esteem python enough to think that
> the ultimate result will be increasing prevalence and preference for
> python.)
I think it's fair to say that I'm not one of per
On 25 May 2000, Roman Milner wrote:
> > "KM" == Ken Manheimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> KM> I have some misgivings with this outlook. It sounds like
> KM> people who seek job security by having expertise with a system
> KM> that closes out unfamiliar options - whether the
Actually, I'd like to see Zope interface with "more" languages (Java, C++
etc.) There are a number of areas that Python performs poorly (I'd prefer
to write encryption algorithms in C, personally) and there are areas where
Python performs very well (OO modelling). I think if people are upset tha
> "KM" == Ken Manheimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
KM> I have some misgivings with this outlook. It sounds like
KM> people who seek job security by having expertise with a system
KM> that closes out unfamiliar options - whether the options are
KM> better or worse.
I'm not i
On 25 May 2000, Roman Milner wrote:
> Well, my point is that I don't think you will be able to ignore it.
> Your boss will give you a product to maintain that includes someone
> else's perl code - sooner or later. Since it is "part of zope" and you
> clearly "know zope" you should be able to mai
> "HK" == Hannu Krosing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
HK> Some of its most significant features (Aquiition,
HK> ExtensionClass) are even written in C and mess with guts of
HK> python interpreter.
HK> See for example PostgreSQL - it has C, SQL, PL/SQL, TCL, Perl,
HK> Ruby an
Heiko Stoermer writes:
> Zopistas,
>
> Paul Everitt wrote:
> >
> > Digital Creations, creators of the Open Source Zope application server,
> > announced today that it is teaming with ActiveState, a leading provider
> > of
> > Internet programming software, to make Perl a scripting langua
Kevin Dangoor wrote:
>
>
> I haven't heard of anyone standing up and saying "I'm not going to use
> Linux, because people might write tools in perl [or awk, or C, or lisp, or
> sh, or yacc or postscript, or ...]" Perhaps that's a better way to look at
> Zope... not as a python web application, b
> "KD" == Kevin Dangoor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
KD> I think Zope offers a ton of features that I wouldn't want to
KD> give up. (And I've been watching what the other servers out
KD> there are doing, and I still appreciate the power given by
KD> Zope.)
I don't question at
- Original Message -
From: "Roman Milner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 1:48 PM
Subject: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed
> Here is why I'm bummed about this. Like other people
Here is why I'm bummed about this. Like other people who have posted
- after years of coding perl for money, I have vowed never to do it
again. (I find that it produces encourages unmaintainable code.)
Also, I think my main marketable skill now is Zope. So, were I to
want to find a different j
Heiko Stoermer wrote:
> All I can say for myself is this:
> I know several people - myself included - who moved from perl to
> python/java/c++ for many very good reasons.
Don't blame you. You did the right thing, and nothing in this
announcement changes that.
On the other hand, hopefully this w
Zopistas,
Paul Everitt wrote:
>
> Digital Creations, creators of the Open Source Zope application server,
> announced today that it is teaming with ActiveState, a leading provider
> of
> Internet programming software, to make Perl a scripting language for
> Zope.
> [...]
> --Paul
>
> Paul Everi
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