> > *I have seen two types of approaches, those confortable with programming > go to VEX because it is so direct and compact… the others (like me) use > regular SOPs and only dive to VEX when I want to avoid VOPs which are a bit > too cumbersome for my own taste… VEX is so convenient…*
*Funny you found vex convenient and vops cumbersome :) I'm the opposite ;)* Oliver, I don't think there's a right or wrong way when it comes to VEX and VOPs. I've come across quite a few ex ICE folk who find VOP's a more natural workflow. However if you did get a handle on VEX you'll find there are many situation where VEX is simpler in terms of the effort involved. The side benefit of VEX's efficiency is that it can provide more clarity as most general VEX tasks only require a few lines of code. I'm sure you saw the 'Joy of Vex' when Matt Estella first launched it a few months back. A lot of artists in the Houdini community seem to have found this series of short tutorials really useful for getting a foundation knowledge of VEX. If nothing more, it provides insights into those times where VEX may provide a path of least resistance, rather than seeing VEX as a replacement to VOP's. Give it a try, Matt's certainly got a knack for teaching this stuff in a natural, common sense manner. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.tokeru.com_cgwiki_index.php-3Ftitle-3DJoyOfVex&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=q8JRk0EhoMonmWrlbCKPfb-6ziy_FK_Vmr8uP5lhG24&s=s8audWDcsRiM2G5wI_KQiBrGanS_nzzNDN1dgLgkFLg&e= On 7 May 2018 at 08:48, Olivier Jeannel <[email protected]> wrote: > Funny you found vex convenient and vops cumbersome :) I'm the opposite ;) > > 2018-05-06 19:28 GMT+02:00 Jordi Bares <[email protected]>: > >> >> On 5 May 2018, at 17:52, Laurence Dodd <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Jordi, >> PS. I am thinking… would it be of interest for you guys if I talk to >> SideFX to organise a crash course in Houdini for Softimage users? May be >> replicating one of the old XSI tutorials live in Houdini??? I still love >> those tutorials… remember the carnivore plant? >> >> I would love to see these, thanks. >> >> >> :-). will chat with them >> >> I'm pretty comfortable in Houdini, and day to day stuff is all fine, in >> fact I love so much about Houdini; but at the moment for me its as soon as >> you hit the Vex stuff I stumble, but thats my shortcoming, and its getting >> better, just have to knuckle down. >> >> >> I have seen two types of approaches, those confortable with programming >> go to VEX because it is so direct and compact… the others (like me) use >> regular SOPs and only dive to VEX when I want to avoid VOPs which are a bit >> too cumbersome for my own taste… VEX is so convenient… >> >> But as you say, it is a matter of just going for it… >> >> jb >> >> >> >> On 4 May 2018 at 19:22, Jordi Bares <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> For the sake of sharing my experiences... >>> >>> On 4 May 2018, at 14:24, Morten Bartholdy <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Pardon me for intruding, but I have to agree with Jonathan here. >>> >>> It used to be that developers worked to make better tools and make them >>> more accessible to the average artist (and I am not talking about Kais >>> Powertools ;), but that path seems to have been abandoned in the pursuit of >>> better and more advanced tools, and letting it up to the users to get a >>> degree in rocket science to be able to wield said tools at all >>> >>> Tools are getting easier (just look at the new hair system in 16.5 vs >>> 16.0 or the new MAT context in order to blend BRDFs properly), complex >>> things are simply complex (DOPs for example) and you can’t simplify certain >>> things without loosing the whole point or it will take a lot to get there >>> (for example custom controls with DOPs records and others) >>> >>> Houdini is probably the best example of this. I know a lot of effort has >>> gone in to making it more accessible, but to my knowledge it still requires >>> a fair amount of insight into expression syntax and scripting plus more >>> than basic math end vector knowhow to get even simple things done. >>> >>> The fact you can add expressions in your fields (something you can’t do >>> in softimage) means you don’t need to script as much… so arguably you can >>> choose between learning simple expressions or learning to program. >>> >>> Both require a certain level of simple maths involving trigonometry, >>> vectors and matrices. >>> >>> I understand your position (stated in earlier threads) that the >>> increased demands on production requires more complex solutions/tools, >>> >>> I would say sophisticated rather than complex… for example packed >>> primitives allow you to do things that are truly mind-bending in >>> combination with Material Style Sheets, but that does not mean they are >>> difficult of full of moving parts. >>> >>> but I don't buy the premise that it also has(!) to become more difficult >>> to use. >>> >>> I don’t think that either.. a good example of sophisticated tools in >>> Houdini 16 and 16.5 that are a pleasure to work are the new terrain tools… >>> but it is also true that unfortunately some problems are complex no matter >>> what. >>> >>> Good UI devs could alleviate that and make even really complex stuff >>> accessible to the least technical artist in the room if ressources were >>> made available, ie the management and dev team leads concur it would be a >>> good idea. I am going out on a limb and guessing it might often come down >>> to this – spend ressources on making the tool more accessible or spend them >>> on making more and better tools… In reality I think in all fairness they >>> try and balance it while keeping a keen eye on their userbase and potential >>> for increasing it. >>> >>> With the UI and UX there is a major point Jeff Wagner explained to me >>> long time ago… Houdini is non-linear (branches splitting and mixing again) >>> so many things there can be easily put on a linear system (like Softimage) >>> are not possible in Houdini and therefore we have to accept certain >>> limitations. Exactly the same than ICE, you don’t have many tools making >>> your live eraser in terms of workflow inside ICE, you need to know what you >>> are doing. >>> >>> But it is true also that Softimage vision of ICE is a lot neater, easier >>> and element in terms of packaging functionality in ICE… A LOT BETTER IN >>> FACT. >>> >>> What remains is that people like me find Houdini way too technical for >>> practical use (the steep learning curve) and as such I have not delved into >>> it for real yet. >>> >>> May be that is what makes you feel it is complex... >>> >>> I will for sure, because I think it is probably the only major 3D DCC >>> which is really evolving and making groundbreaking tools available to the >>> users, so it will very likely inherit the world, but for me, and probably >>> many others, as Jonathan probably indicates, it would do so much faster if >>> it was made even easier to use :) >>> >>> Agreed, there are many things that should be a lot easier because you do >>> them all the time (like path deform for example, or layering animation, or >>> having a shape manager and others) but don’t be mistaken, it is not >>> difficult at all until you need to dive in certain areas. >>> >>> And that would mean I would get to spend less time in Maya which >>> honestly makes me short of breath to the point of needing to vomit, almost >>> every day. >>> >>> Well, then I can guarantee you you will age slower. ;-) >>> >>> Peace and have a great weekend. >>> jb >>> >>> PS. I am thinking… would it be of interest for you guys if I talk to >>> SideFX to organise a crash course in Houdini for Softimage users? May be >>> replicating one of the old XSI tutorials live in Houdini??? I still love >>> those tutorials… remember the carnivore plant? >>> >>> Just my two kr (the coin we use here) >>> >>> Have a nice weekend all – Morten >>> >>> Den 3. maj 2018 klokken 19:17 skrev Jordi Bares <[email protected]>: >>> >>> And by my judgement, Houdini is no closer to being a generalist >>> replacement for Softimage. >>> >>> This is what I would love to understand if you don’t mind… >>> >>> jb >>> >>> ------ Softimage Mailing List. To unsubscribe, send a mail to >>> [email protected] “unsubscribe” in the >>> subject, and reply to confirm. >>> >>> ------ Softimage Mailing List. To unsubscribe, send a mail to >>> [email protected] with “unsubscribe” in the >>> subject, and reply to confirm. >>> >>> >>> >>> ------ >>> Softimage Mailing List. >>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to [email protected] with >>> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Laurence Dodd >> Porkpie Animation >> E: [email protected] >> W: www.porkpie.tv >> <https://u7507473.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=5SmYwFIJXHmC5X9wAP0G6iB4H67OtDu1LYz6krlc8-2FqBeLCXrELBQVbfMn71cNywwCM9MLKQNt6NvY2bdnUVgiRuzEw0g0OZUwVhB4KIDvkjTtq34l13Jmfjgwg01isCCK511SfOUct9zBCzgDFFRO-2FaVrThr3vNXUM7RiWhBe-2BeNhsuRVYy8WcsXk6VbpXImEfuRQawGiawr4d49P-2FHnLnlELB9OOSGEp8kBIqiFZxa2fSH2uroog4eQsi5i0iGOvAlBanKasL72X371xL3Z1-2FMAUK-2F1-2Bn7d4-2Fi9jwJGmD-2FXB0QlJXgqMM4kstz-2Fm56HjIsU-2BkoNKiHaHAxbA8n7qCi7fJECJ12MiQJpTrx2jfXGBXF3zfBvDddlR827i4aFwrn2yvXBGGOoEZOMg9hjJ1wpoyeQ1zfNS-2FsdMLrqqKGHus-2F8i29bvjlIZWcWWw5BJzNiECLMIXfZdNXxnembvuSthPD5s7oJgDPzMMcE-2BZ-2Fbg217Tb8pG9IPlJ0oTrGm9nJVBeu69JfgIek17q31gmbNwgkgVb6qlor-2BrN-2BQuNhaoZ2gEES3m7ODvQOvC4Sj-2BAiz4fndxfDUHix2zWmCWxAy8P49brmdoGVhD6Tlwn3ZApS0RUKx-2FkX-2B7tuQvOYQEJDqcaf-2BuYp2DnWjrCLgo2nBPFcfe2zIHd-2FMNwXXg9nWYgul2Kfy4qR6Dnv6OQ51Z9Jhc0I0rxtkG25OsGp0-2FQrpnr-2F9GCSwMSanvw3WbPIGvTNaAhNb44-2FJqbi1SaTVBhksXarY8aezmLere4GvrNA8jJVNtUCDkBLO-2FKkyLznhwA5yYzpXzGMEfjFZCK884efjjflxORq70sNg3K3wWmwVKfspJtKlO3nXhUX0vgU6ZM8xG6sgjcVe46UkFsaXdImeqDNoFUjMvYT6VNOJ1ROJtBBzQJYyvArucOdURKIEVvm-2BJa7UJdIUB-2BFtTFtEcun7ruZjkvfOqGLv39zDpbx79o-2Fm-2BouKGKey6VgHInG9sgSVahMJVjTjf-2FlUl68jSxrAZ2x4t7yo9OtBy8rEseosByZ5YVEdBNxCneXNHpWVyLa30p2-2FebxUsAe5YESK1CxXFdUUguUFsUK4GR0v1J0MR-2Fn-2BPz5YaOXiDhH395zuQmXkD4Atai4NajXHc47xpQvwjeAMxMdwuqdnhDL1ce4zQhK69qnJXQLijv4X47N57eqq-2Bi1pPMiQSH3CcIfkm4HYos3-2BN55ICR1c8VHe-2BtAd0Ytwu51ME2LKPeQTZhJ59zOqUOEyfWgc1Mk9pzIDZGjt6RFojP19mcnb8x8fxYMRzBcRtdXAVZPVu1ImW9B-2BOUbj40ciN-2B2WbaxH57TqOBPbIPek1l5vqsmnJVUfpjnzC7ddwwSGxUVd5i4LaA7Y4qYgf3ddpKkBstAojXMkNgpfBObceyWBdhH9zqPltCRGzRiq0LriNRGTqH3uAtwqPkmEY2D1tDk-2FQCRzafWr5N-2BMUl1v8FdG1ietmk40FIi85WVhrRk5Cf7Kf41sk-2Fgl-2BhIi1wRexkjINhmmZGhKZKaBeeOJEuE7xswXj30KiyiyURmobsmkHtNJ0aGka7uFhTMO-2FPM0UJkCZPqRGeQjEonyUeS3eAIGVzEG-2BJGVDq69ySPBmom4gdTfXZ6U-2BG0Zq1mpkraRGq4PVjmRy18VUcijtw16d0RdWq3q23yne7nkT5LU6rmLpLlvs5eKqJU8C-2B672bTV88Zz2dRJuxSzJOiiqEiiRgCQDazxCEdPNrA8IzEyGOawck1EKPlS3TEW3NwT2tsbIqchKSPw7a5-2BzLffanTrI5ooMCtrskvyWBcZlJrj5GKzAAbq-2BlpbXnxJFg0QILvzzRDk5RIBtXa8y1dJOvyguPkRPkirRVvYyLCg-2FJncm-2Bu9zsD-2BYG83KN7O-2B3K33vOsaz7LdaAiXJ6iduStjKJ9WMJqEEyXJY5kvhQ78b06i4vn-2F-2F4QI8elhvO7DlPRmHJ7aZjUjFSa16IawM7mVbq0AmXRBJec-2Bp11-2FLxWcqEO3kust2u0wvTqyCzdx8PZRDNRtkPots6S0472m1rfaAcTgu2-2Fx75kuWogVTIh2PUgsg2HK9zPpxPp-2Fckm-2BDOOJ-2BzJ91QFfM3KCghWpMHysaUOmWS09-2BrUvos87uQFPesioDOD-2Fewh1gn8k6I9RKGaqB-2F-2B26v0bjcg7C55Z7YSwm7tNcyt4l4Ep98IQ98a0nRxoxQ7p2brkzpSDU781k5otHt-2FY064r1YKHy-2B9zc1eixmKHg9DvPF-2FUGW3oMK1eEFzocBm7sOLHePRlejIbbVZTouFYWhOxquxLMB61BLprfU2uCmUR4003N9Uzaa4UAHgA6wiZE5CDfwYG5mAoaCW8f55kGa3c-2FtwJTa_8oxW4HKyAHmpsFLR5-2FCi07AjfPcvdujiFz-2FAu1T5li1CoVVq-2BJ90fSZf-2B9IEuFEODKzp5huCWLeiKhzWhlMPST76Gc7qPSVEvzBx6AKcitu-2BbIQYbjfiiHeuj4soz03DPC8hlW51A9U7ws8xtP0t8wlYwTrK4WR33W0h-2BxvxLrF9Bev4NWluF7Pi-2BdXa1Eg-2FN6MzN7D-2B7uWh72u1FlNhcDVuBxoMXvFmopsWsCTEmHg-3D> >> M: 07570 702 576 >> T: 01273 278 382 >> ------ >> Softimage Mailing List. >> To unsubscribe, send a mail to [email protected] with >> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >> >> >> >> ------ >> Softimage Mailing List. >> To unsubscribe, send a mail to [email protected] >> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >> > > > ------ > Softimage Mailing List. > To unsubscribe, send a mail to [email protected] > with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >
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