On Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:07:15 +0100, Bernie wrote:
>Per B�ckman wrote:
How did "�" get in here?
>>>But then the american civil war wasn't a civil war either since neither
>>>part had lived there before the other.
>>So the civil wars in Russia or Finland were not a civil wars either?
>
>If we assume that the war inside Russia isn't one then they wouldn't be
>either.
>But that's not what I think they were. Besides aren't you refering to the
>revolution in Russia?
There was a revolution 1905, another one in February 1917 (old style), a coup in
October 1917 (old style), a civil war 1918-20. The civil war was a result of the coup
by the
communists, it brought terror on both sides, and was followed by even more terror
after the communist victory. I do not know how many millions are estimated to have
been murdered, probably over 100 millions.
The civil war in Russia has always been assumed to be a civil war. Two armies from the
same country fighting, that should be enough to make it a civil war.
>
>Almost 200 years, that's a long time IMO
200 years is not such a long time in history. However, to some authors of computer
pocketbooks a few years is a very long time.
(besides if we change to our own
>local politic someone is assumed to be completly swedish after their family
>has lived here in three generations).
If so, where do the Jews, Gypsies, Finns and Lapps come from?
>
>>The Baltic states were never a part of the Russian Federation, they
>declared themselves >independent in 1918, after a bit more than hundred
>years under Russian rule.
>
>That was not what I was refering to. They were parts of the USSR were ex.
>Russia consisted of several smaller parts as well - I have no idea if the
>others were the same, but ex. Moldavia have had their share of problems).
Moldavia was a part of Roumania, occupied by USSR in 1940. USSR also occupied parts of
Poland and Czechoslovakia, as well as the Baltic states. They were not as
succesful with Finland.
>> The German population was deported around 1947 and
>replaced by >Russians, in matters of independence you can not compare the
>region with any
>>other soviet republic or autonomous republic or area.
>
>I didn't know that so many were forced to move, are relatives to them
>moving back as they are doing in .cz?
Most of the Germans were deported from Czechoslovakia, because they had cooperated
with the nazis, they are not allowed back as far as I know.
The Germans in East Prussia, as well as those in other parts of Germany east of Odra,
were deported to make room for Poles, that were deported from east of Bug. Stalin
wanted to rearrange a little in Europe. Some of the Germans and Poles would probably
like to go back, and there are still quite a few Germans in Silesia and Poles on the
east side of Bug (and in Kazakhstan, where they were deported in 1939-41).
>But it's cheaper to import things into Kaliningrad and then manufacture it
>up by 10% or something like that and then you're allowed to sell it in the
>entire Russian Federation. So they are diffrent (the big navy bases there
>will on the other hand probably make it harder to break free since I would
>believe many still dream of "the good old days" when they could crash their
>subs on our coasts and claim to have gotten lost and get away with it <g>).
It is not as simple as that, in the 70's officers of the Baltic Fleet were acting for
the independence of Estonia, there was a mutiny on one of the ships etc. In the
Kaliningrad
area it is different. They may be willing to go their own way, but not to break away
from Russia. Emotions are far more important than economy. The population is mainly
Russian, I think, it is not like Estonia, with its history of being a highly
developed, independent national state. The Kaliningrad area is just like any other
part of Russia. It is
hard to imagine Russians associate with Prussian traditions to such an extent, that
thay would want to leave the motherland.
Anyway, this is a bit off the topic of this list, is it not?
Per B.
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