How convenient ~!! The opening words of the letter are verse 1 - 7. Wow. I was almost right.
JD
-----Original Message-----
From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 15:09:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
David Miller wrote: >> The quote from which JD takes his "we have sinned" >> is yanked out of context to say something exclusive >> of the context in which it was said. JD wrote: > Part of the "context" of the first 7 chapters of Romans > is the theme that man is a sinner; a second theme is > GOD SAVES US ANYWAY. This is said over and > over again in these first 7 chapters. David Miller wrote: > I agree. Romans 5 introduces some new > concepts though about inheritance. John wrote: > If you agree, then your conclusion above is wrong. No, I agree that PART of the context is as you have stated it, but I disagree with you that Romans 5 EXCLUDES the concept of how death and sin passed upon man from the sin of one man, Adam. David Miller wrote: > 1 John 1:8 is always yanked out of context > by the grace legalists. John wrote: > Since these are the opening words of the letter, > they establish context. These are NOT the opening words of the letter. Prior to verse 8, he wrote: 1 John 1:5-7 (5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. (6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: (7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. Therefore, the context is that God cannot have fellowship with sin; therefore, he cannot have fellowship with us if we are sinners. So, the blood of Christ is needed to cleanse us from ALL sin, and if we say that we have no sin and therefore do not need the blood of Christ to cleanse us, we lie and the truth is not in us. That is the context. John wrote: > You do not allow that to be the case > - at least this is the case to date. I have always allowed 1 John 1:8 to speak in the context in which it is written. The entire letter is best given context by 1 John 2:1, "... these things write I unto you, that ye sin not..." John wrote: > Death is univeral because sin is universal. > James tells us why we sin. We do not > have anyone to blame for our transgressions > except ourselves. You are still not dealing with what Paul was dealing with in Romans 5, which concerns why sin is universal. You are oversimplifying a complex situation. We exist, not because we chose to exist, but because of what our parents did, and what their parents did, and what their parents before them did. Furthermore, our inclinations in life were not predetermined by us, but by that which was passed down to us from our parents, and by that which God put into us when he created our spirit. David Miller wrote: > I agree that all men have sinned, as you point out, > but not to the EXCLUSION of the other points > being made. We need to consider all these passages > together. John wrote: > I believe that you exclude "for all have sinned" and > the concept that we alone are accountable for our > situation. You are mistaken. I do not exclude "for all have sinned." I do, however, disagree with the concept that we alone are accountable for our situation. Such a remark is utmost foolishness. None of us decided to be born, nor did we choose to be part of the human race. We were put into out situation entirely by others, our parents, our ancestors, God, their interactions with Satan and his angels, the environment, etc. There are many factors accountable for our situation. Not only do I disagree about we ALONE being accountable for our situation, I think our role in accounting for our present situation is very minimal. On the other hand, if you are going to talk about accountability for sin, then I would agree that we alone are accountable for the role we play in sinning. This does not mean that others also do not bear accountability as well. God will judge those who tempt others to sin, and he will judge the devil and his angels who cause others to sin. John wrote: > Adam was created mortal and fully capable > of sin and sinning. Who told you that Adam was created mortal? Is that your imagination at work? Upon what authority, what passage of Scripture or revelation, do you base the idea that Adam was created mortal? Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
