Perry wrote: > I beleive the verse about preaching to all creatures > to be parenthetical to the rest of the passage, telling > the apostles their commission, but not changing the > subject of his address, namely those whom he had > just upbraided for thier unbelief.
The verses leading up to and including verse 14 are a narrative spoken by the author, John. John is the one who refers to the eleven as they and them. This is not Jesus addressing anyone. Verse 15 starts with, "And HE said unto them..." I assume the antecedent of "He" is Jesus. So after this phrase in verse 15, it is Jesus speaking, up to but not including verse 19 where it says, "THEN AFTER THE LORD HAD SPOKEN." Verse 19 resumes the narrative by John, and so the antecedent of "they and them" switches back to the original, which would be the eleven. So, when he says "YE" in verse 15, he is referring to the eleven, and therefore "they or them" are referring to others to whom they preach. When Jesus is speaking, he would use the word "YE" again if he meant to refer to the eleven. Why start out talking to them saying "Go YE" but then switch to saying THEY or THEM? Who speaks in this way, addressing a group and instead of saying "YOU" says "THEY or THEM"? Or is it possible that you assume that Jesus is not the one speaking in verses 16-18? Mark 16:14-20 (14) Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. (15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (19) So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. (20) And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. Peace be with you. David Miller. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 4:34 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides >David wrote: > >Jesus is speaking to the eleven. We agree on this. Verses 16-18 use > >pronouns such as he, they, and them. All of these pronouns in these >verses > >refer to the creatures to whom they preach. We know this because the > >context of his message to the eleven is preaching the gospel to every > >creature. He is giving them the reason why they should be preaching, > >because of those to whom they preach, some will believe and be baptized >and > >thereby be saved, while others would not believe and would be damned. > >Jesus > >then goes on to teach that sings would follow them that believe. Who are > >"them that believe"? Those who believe the gospel being preached by the > >eleven. How can you view this any other way? What motivates you to > >interpret the passage another way? Think about that. > >Perry wrote: > > Sounds to me like you are making a lot of > > assumtions that the text does not contain. > >Such as? Perhaps if you identify the assumptions you are making when you >read the passage, it might help me see your point. 1. "All of these pronouns in these verses refer to the creatures to whom they preach." This is an assumption on your part, and I believe to be incorrect. 2. "We know this because the context of his message to the eleven is preaching the gospel to every creature." I beleive the verse about preaching to all creatures to be parenthetical to the rest of the passage, telling the apostles their commission, but not changing the subject of his address, namely those whom he had just upbraided for thier unbelief. 3. "He is giving them the reason why they should be preaching" I think this is a wrong assumption. You can make that assertion ONLY if you have incorrectly determined the antecedent to be "all creatures". In this verse He is telling th 11 WHAT to do, not why they should be doing it. 4. "because of those to whom they preach, some will believe and be baptized and thereby be saved, while others would not believe and would be damned. While this may be a true statement in general, it does not follow from #1, and fails due to #2. it only makes sense when the ones whom he had just upbraided for their unbelief is the antecedent. 5. "Who are "them that believe"? Those who believe the gospel being preached by the eleven. " Not quite. He is talking about the 11, whom he just finished upbraiding for their unbelief! 6. "How can you view this any other way? What motivates you to interpret the passage another way? " As I said previously, but you are doubting, this understanding of the passage was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. Perry ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
