on 8/24/01 7:15 PM, "Flying Cloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You can download from jcorporate without registering!
Not from CVS.
> Being for internal use only - is entirely true. That "something" is the
> value of a qualitative number of people in our community. Currently we have
> approximately 12,000 registered users.
How many active users?
> Vague.
When I get back, I will write another YMTD-style article that goes in detail
over all of the design and code issues that I have with Expresso. How's
that?
> Jon, enough already - your earlier claim was "Expresso is a framework done
> by...one employee" not that he is author of a large portion. Interesting how
> your claims change to suit your purpose.
I will ask again:
How many full time paid employees does JavaCorporate have?
Let me also expand on that:
How many full time paid software engineers does JavaCorporate have?
> Factually speaking about 2 years ago I approached Kevin Burton about the
> idea of combining efforts and strengths into creating one framework - and
> that was one of primary reasons I came to ApacheCon in Orlando. We offered
> to contribute the Expresso code to Apache provided we could retain copyright
> for the substantial effort of years code (in dev since '96) we would be
> contributing.
We were only interested in joining forces. The rules are clear about the
copyrights.
> The other factor in our decision was you made it abundantly clear in Orlando
> that all decisions would be yours and the first thing you'd start with was
> throwing away dbobjects - one of Expresso's core strengths.
What the hell? I never made any statements that any decisions are "mine". In
fact, I have always been strongly advocating that I am *not* the core of the
Turbine project. Look at development today, Jason van Zyl and the rest of
the contributors run the show. Not me. Nearly every commit that I made in
Turbine today is done after discussion with Jason.
To add to that, the "rules" for the Jakarta/ASF projects dictate that no one
person has complete control over anything. Look at the voting rules.
<http://jakarta.apache.org/site/guidelines.html>
> So much for the
> concept of teamwork and collaboration on decisions. As you said yourself
> today you are "very opinionated". The one difference is while to you, "That
> isn't a bad thing IMHO", my view is closemindedness can detrimental to a
> project. So while no one is wrong - there was a philosophical difference
> that made this not win/win for us.
I can state my opinions all day long. When it comes down to contributing
code, my opinions only go so far as what the developers of the project want.
This is clearly documented in the voting guidelines for all of the Jakarta
projects. How you can twist that into me owning a project is beyond me.
<http://jakarta.apache.org/site/guidelines.html>
> It didn't much matter because the frameworks really had considerably little
> overlap and we continued on in different directions. If there becomes an
> opportunity where collaboration would be possible I would be ecstatic Jon.
That has always been up to you. We always welcome contributions and you have
clearly decided to stay away and create your own wheels.
> My interest remains today collaborating with the OSS community for the
> greater good of the Java market. Our integration with other components, Java
> Standards and most recently Struts are the results of our commitment.
Great! Needless to say, I think you choose the completely wrong direction
with integration with Struts/JSP. Of course, that is MY OPINION and carries
as much weight as anyone else's opinions.
-jon
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