Hi Matthias..

well..sorry..but as far as I see it, this wont help..(I will look more into it..) Since the problem is the initial relationship between the Meshes and the Skeleton.... which will affect the setup always, after first time you ever bind anything to the skeleton..

So until I get to know what I actually did to fix my setup (which I did by just pure luck.=) Then for all new character I create, I really need to think a head and get things placed correctly (this means, to have to get the actual Skeleton with correct needed bones and these bones needs to be in correct positions and angles..) BEFORE I bind the very first mesh to it..

btw.. noticed you mentioned the Lattice Mapping Reconnect tool..(but I mostly only use the Bind Tools.. , only using Lattice Map for other stuff..) And the Native state.. is only for the actual Bone angles.. and wont affect the whole skeleton if you have modified it in Object Mode.. (so for my wild ways of doing things.. it wont help..)

and yep, RS adds chors.. depending on what chor is active, and if something has been animated once or had any chors before.. At times things get added that I really dont see why..and I would want an option to prevent any chors from being added unless I as User wants it.. (like you have the Protect Anim option, which prevent RS to add keyFramer Chors.... it would be nice with similar for ALL chor types..)
A simple example..
At times when you move animated things, in the Select Window... RS adds translate (Pose)chors, maybe this is buggy, but it actually makes the object MOVE in the View Win, which I really dont want... Things is fixed by you the user, that just go in the Chor win, and delete that by RS created Chor.. (which makes the object jump back to correct position again) So what is the point RS adds this, when it makes an unwanted move (if it were created, to prevent the animated object from moving when changed position in the Select Win.. then I could understand this added chor.. but.. now it dont.. =)
But I am sure it will get fixed for V6 too..

Thx again for your input...

well I have some free time now this afternoon..
so I will try get something animated after I look into your Pickup prjs..!
Hopefully I soon have some testanims ready...

Take Care
Best Regards
Stefan Gustafsson ( Beg-inner )
A Proud Owner and User of Real3D and Realsoft3D..
----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthias Kappenberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: Is there Anyone that... forgotten to say


Hi Stefan,

isn't it possible for you to first create a file with the initial
geometry+skeleton then save this file (lets say "my-charater.r3d") ;-)
Now animate the character and save it as "my-character-anim.r3d".

If you now have to modify something go to my-character.r3d,
do there the changes, copy only the modified geometry and paste the
geometry in the same level as the "old geometry" from my-character-anim.r3d,
delete the old geometry,
then use the dropdown near the play and record buttons to switch
once to "init0" and then back to the skeletons (last "animators") name.
The geometry should now jump to the "binded+modified" position.
If you now have the problem, that after the "jump-to" the geomtry is not following the skeletons anim, only after newly switching from "last-animator-->init0-->last animator",
select the geometry and the skeleton and go to "Lattice Mapping" tab
and try there the "Reconnect".

The above did the trick in a short tryout I made, maybe it's helpy for you.

Does the "store" and "native" don't help, too?
Do you get additional "poses" in chor-window after modifying geometry?

For v6 an easy possibility to add bones after rigging would be nice, too.
(something like: Uuuups, I need on more spine bone, and then only add
the bone and assign binding 1 step down in skeletons hirarchy beginning at
new created bone <-- maybe not really good explained, too)

Matthias

----- Original Message ----- From: "Beg-inner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: Is there Anyone that... forgotten to say


Hi Matthias..

Just came back home..

well..maybe I explained the problem very badly...which really can be so..
or I might have got it all wrong...

But your suggestion (which I have already tried) do work IF you havent
move/rotated or edited the skel too much...(which then makes it practically
impossible to forsee how you should edit the Mesh to later end up as you
want it in the new position of the skel.. =(
In my case then it had worked fine, since I almost only needed to Rotate the Head...but I did by a chance as I said in my earlier post, already fixed it
in a way that I dont even know myself how it happened..=)

So for my way of modeling, where I go with the flow, and might add a new
mesh here and there, after I have moved my character around, or posed it,
which then I want to model some details or add some stuff, and do it there,
then its really hard to fix this... =)
(I bet many others really only model, in the initial pose, position and so
on..=), or actually just model the model ready then create the skel.. =)
rofl..

Still I think either its a bug or maybe just how things is implemented.
After something has been Bound to a bone, then every other meshes that you try to bind to the skels..(when this bone or skeleton has been moved/rotated from its initial pose it had when the first mesh was bound to it..!) will be
offset with equal amount of Translation and Rotations as skels( and
subskels) has been translated/rotated..  =( its like a doubler..
In an odd way..the Skeleton or something, keeps this info, which is then
applied to all new bound objects or meshes already bound to it but that you
move/rotate or point edit.... =(

Try this...simple and extreme example...
1. Create a simple one bone skeleton
2. Create a simple SDS object...
3. Select all points of the SDS... and the Bone.. and hit 'Bind' Tool...
4. Move and Rotate the Skeleton (do it in Object Mode) enough away from its
position where it was when you bound the SDS to it..
5. Create a new SDS object... and bind it to the skel..
(As soon as you hit bind button.. this new SDS object will be offset

Or maybe its just me and my ways of doing things that are wrong..=)

Well if not soon, then V6 will surely have things that makes it easier, for
example one thing that would ease it up, is to have one Chor as Current
(were changes will be set into) and another set to which Chor in the
hierarchy should show the result... =)
Then your suggestion would be workable even for me and my extreme cases..
since then one can set Init Chor as Current and the Last Chor (or the wanted
chor) as Result Chor.. =)

Ouch.. came in too late..
I will take an indepth look at your Pickup prjs tomorrow..!
Hopefully I will be able to make a little test anim..which I am looking
forward to.. !

Take Care
Best Regards
Stefan Gustafsson ( Beg-inner )
A Proud Owner and User of Real3D and Realsoft3D..


> Hi Stefan,
>
> try this:
>
> Open chor-window.
>
> Hold CRTL and select the initial Chor (like init0) (blue point should > jump
> to init0)
> then move the head
> hold CRTL and select last chor item (keyframer, pose or something
> blue point should jump)
> this should do the trick
> You can use the select dropdown at the "timeslider" Animation Window
> select there the top (something like init0) item to disable all > "animators
> below and try to move, rotate the object as desired.
> Then enable the animators again, and move the frameslider.
>
> Feel free to ask.
> If the explanation is not good enough, I'll do a screenshow avi.
>
> Matthias
>
>> In that I wanted to change the initial position/rotation for the Head >> SDS
>> mesh relative to the bone it was bound to..
>> So I unbound it, then changed the position of the Skel... and rebound >> the
>> head mesh again..
>> But the head mesh moved...=(.. to offset the Skel..(by the same >> distance
>> and
>> with same angle of rotation as what I had changed for the Skel.. =)
>> This means that you can only rebind a mesh when the skel is exactly in
>> the
>> same position and rotation as it was when you for the very first time
>> bound
>> that Particular Mesh to the skel..=)
>> (hehe shouldnt one be able to bind or rebind the mesh in whatever >> state
>> the
>> skel is in.. ?=) .

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