@Brian, Yes I think we are like-minded on this. To the extent that there is provision for alteration, it has to be provided in a safe manner and not by manipulating the document representation directly.
I don't see a particular problem with a Reveal/Review Styling allowing certain safe alterations, although it increases the complexity of an implementation. Of course, a Reveal/Review implementation has to be available first before one can use it to remedy unintended or blocked situations. (This is not the same as hacking the XML, which is not in memory anyhow in the case of OpenOffice, where one could break the structure, although there are XML editors that require a schema to be honored.) I'm satisfied that there is a case for a feature that provides a safe equivalent of what Reveal Codes provides in WordPerfect. I don't know how to get past that point, nor do I know anyone who is able to do so and is also willing to do so. - Dennis ANOTHER CASE THAT WORKS One of my favorites that does reveal structure and format coding is Microsoft FrontPage 2003 (the last version now that it is abandon-ware). I can put the cursor anywhere and a little ribbon strip at the top of the WYSIWYG text window will show the linear nesting of structure that covers that position. I can also click on one of those and the text covered by that structure will be high-lighted. I can also ask to edit a particular structure's attributes (e.g., a font setting) or even remove a given structure from the hierarchy (such as the span of a font setting, but not its content). These are all benign operations -- the result is always valid. (I could also switch to the raw HTML and damage the document any way I wanted, although FrontPage will repair it in some inscrutable fashion if I mess up.) Where styling comes into this would have to do with CSS, including in-line CSS properties. I've not explored that particular case, although I know CSS styles can be viewed/reviewed. OpenOffice and ODF are more complex in this respect, and I have no idea how to provide a counterpart in OpenOffice. I can imagine having an equivalent feature in an ODF-based editor, but it would probably be one that is designed for that from the beginning. (I can imagine considerable value to such a provision during development and troubleshooting of an implementation, and it should be part of the product.) -----Original Message----- From: Brian Barker [mailto:b.m.bar...@btinternet.com] Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 00:34 To: users@openoffice.apache.org Subject: RE: reveal codes At 16:42 20/01/2013 -0800, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: >I agree that an equivalent means of inspecting what formatting >features apply at a point in the text, and where they come from, >would be extremely valuable in trouble-shooting these style-based >documents. Being able to see the span of the application of a >format feature (or of an applied style) would also be very >useful. This is particularly important, it seems to me, because the >created structures and the styles they introduce are not >invertible. It is difficult to see where they are and to reverse >their effects by making more formatting operations and it is >conceivable that there are bugs in all of that as well. > >To that extent, I tend to disagree with Brian Barker. It should be >possible to manipulate the styles in rational ways, similar to what >is available with the "Styles and Formatting" pop-out. This would >not be by getting under the hood and pulling wires, but having a >tool that accomplishes an available manipulation in a valid way. For what it's worth, I don't see where we are disagreeing. Don't we both agree that (1) a clearer way of seeing exactly why a document is behaving in a particular way is desirable, but that (2) users modifications should continue to be carried out through a proper interface, not by trying to tinker with non-existent "tags"? Brian Barker --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
