On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 02:34:06PM +0100, swe wrote:

> Hi VOS-developer,
> I downloaded the new terangreal, new box world looks nice: good idea to 
> have the move explaination in first sight!
> Funny little pyramid and penguin online then ;)

Thanks!  Hopefully we can eventually have a whole tutorial within the 
vos world.

> Ok, but thats still all one can find easy if one wants to attend own stuff 
> to vos from a non-hardcore-coder perspecive.

Well, you're right.  It isn't suitable for non-technical users at this 
point.  However, I think we've learned a lot about the importance of 
user interface since then and hope to do better in the future.  
Actually, one of the major challenges is the fact that we're trying to 
develop for several platforms, so just in terms of tools we have to do 
everything three times to make it fit well with each operating system.
> The blocks.cod is compressed (wow! saves 50 bytes?)
> and in cod-format (why not using a more human readable and editable .xod 
> too?)

"COD" stands for Compact Object Description and came before "XOD" (XML 
Object Description).  The blender exporter we wrote produces COD files 
because I hadn't created the XOD format at that time, and haven't had a 
chance to go back and rewrite the exporter to support another export 
format.  Also the world files store textures and mesh data in binary 
formats, but the XML-based XOD format can't store binary data at this 

> What do I need to convert .cod back to .xod?
> Where do I find infos about that?
> Or better, can I write my worlds in (ok static?)vrml and convert to .xod 
> by a tool?

Reed has been working on a tool to convert from VRML to A3DL (XOD) but 
I'm not sure how sophisticated it is yet.

> Where do I get them?
> All that infos could help new users to get more involved in vos I think.
> Why not include such examples in the download?

This (and everything else) is a time issue, basically.  VOS was 
developed when Reed and I were attending University together, and since 
then we've graduated and had much less time to work on it due to having 
a full-time job, girlfriends/wives, etc.

That said, suppose now is a good a time as any to announce to the list 
that I'm in the process of drawing up a business plan for being able to 
work on VOS full time.  I'm in discussion with the Free Software 
Foundation and others about possible sources of funding.  This is a 
long-term thing (the earliest I would be able to start doing this full 
time would be July) but it'll mean a lot for the project, since I'll be 
able to focus on it completely, support users, and generally get 
everything done I've been meaning to do for a long time.  I've come to 
the conclusion that what we're trying to do is simply too big of a 
problem to be solved by a few open source hobbists in any reasonable 
amount of time (or more to the point, the world will have moved on to 
something else before we have something usable).  So by turning VOS 
development into a business effort (while still based on free software 
principals) I think I stand a good chance of being in a position to 
really make a difference.

> Further more, if you look at the free blaxxun community: one central 
> feature is a 'world'-list where user can promote own worlds:
> Why not add an interface or upload button so user can create 
> own worlds or add static objects (given in common formats like 
> .obj/.3ds/vrml?) to the first VOS world?

We were working towards this.  Also an earlier version of VOS had 
exactly the kind of master server world list you're describing, but like 
a lot of things we haven't gotten a chance to integrate it into the 
current version.

> Its nice that one can use blender to convert models, but thats another 
> barrier to download, keeping people from attending.
> Also I think the first VOS worlds should show what possibilities
> (->shadows? water? layers? mediaformats? sounds?-> I remember you added 
> the emma3d features to vos?) VOS can use.
> If you want more users and especial content designers, the first steps 
> should show why VOS is good for them.

I'm not sure where you got the idea we had anything to do with Emma3d -- 
I think I might have floated the idea of VOS and Emma3d working together 
on the Emma3d forums, but nothing ever came of it.

> Or think it from a different perspecitve, why SL makes user want to be 
> part of it?
> Show them that SL is 'dead-end-tech' (a word SL-hype has for other 
> communities ;)!
> Anyway, I would like to bring some models into vos. Like a pirate 
> ship? Maybe a little island? One there outside can help me to get a water 
> surface working and convert/upload stuff on main server?
> The knowledge that vos is the better system is not enought.

I feel that VOS *will* be the better system because it's based on better 
ideas, but to be realistic it's not there yet.  It's not, at the moment, 
good for much beyond a proof-of-concept demo to show that our ideas will 
actually work.  Once I find support to be able to devote more time to 
developing VOS, the next-generation (codename "s5" and already under 
development) will address everything you've brought up here, and a lot 

[   Peter Amstutz  ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]
[Lead Programmer][Interreality Project][Virtual Reality for the Internet]
[ VOS: Next Generation Internet Communication][ http://interreality.org ]
[ http://interreality.org/~tetron ][ pgpkey:  pgpkeys.mit.edu  18C21DF7 ]

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