Hi Peter and others using Entourage, Is anyone who uses Entourage, backing up Entourage using Time Machine? If so have they been checking their Entourage backups to see if there is any corruption?
Why I ask is I have always understood the main issue with Time Machine and the Entourage database isn't just because it is backed up every hour filling up hard drives, but because the database daemon is running at all times and could do some garbage collection during a copy and end up corrupting your copy. Microsoft has confirmed that the Office 2008 database gets corrupted by Time Machine backups. See the Microsoft KB article here: <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946961>. Note the line in the "More Information" paragraph that says, I quote, "If Time Machine starts an automatic backup while Entourage 2008 is modifying the user database, the backup process may damage the backup copy of the user database." The only option is to exclude the Entourage database from the Time Machine backups, and back up your database via other means (when Entourage is not running). Maybe with Office 2010 Microsoft will break up that monolithic database into something TM can back up ... yeah, and Cows might Fly ;-) Cheers, Ronni PS. I'm so relieved that I have my 17" MacBook Pro back with a new Logic Board installed. Huge thankyou to Daniel (for organising, delivery & pickup) & Nick at Joondalup (for the repair). On 02/02/2010, at 1:50 PM, Ronda Brown wrote: > Hi Peter, > > I use Apple Mail and it suits my needs well, but it you do make the decision > to stick with Entourage, you can Exclude your Entourage database from Time > Machine backups. > > If you use Microsoft Entourage, you have a file called Database, which stores > all your email messages, calendar items, and to-do tasks. (By default, it’s > stored in ~/Documents/Microsoft User Data/Office 2008 Identities/Main > Identity; substitute Office 2004 or Office X for Office 2008 if you are using > an older version.) > > As Rob has already explained, this file can grow to several gigabytes in size > or larger, and it changes every time you receive or file an email message—or > do just about anything else in Entourage. > As a result, Time Machine must recopy that entire file every time it runs. > Not only will that make your hourly backups take a long time, it’ll rapidly > fill up your backup disk. > > However, since this is an important file, if you exclude it from Time > Machine, I recommend backing it up in some other way ... "Every Day"! > > Cheers, > Ronni > > 17" MacBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo > 2.4 GHz / 4GB / 800MHz / 500GB > OS X 10.6.2 Snow Leopard > Windows 7 Ultimate (under sufferance) > > > > On 02/02/2010, at 1:32 PM, Crisp, Peter wrote: > >> Thanks Rob that is a very logical reason to move to Mail. I will have some >> off-line discussion with my father Severin (he is a devout Mail user) and >> discuss further with him. >> >> At the risk of beating a well beaten drum though, a solution to the >> Monolithic file issue you point out, is to exclude the “monolithic file” >> from the Time Machine back up register, and institute my own separate back >> up process for that file far less frequently than hourly – say monthly. I’m >> sure most will groan and say “get over it and use Mail”. Maybe I will. >> >> Will get back in due course. >> >> Regards >> >> Peter. >> From: wamug-ow...@wamug.org.au [mailto:wamug-ow...@wamug.org.au] On Behalf >> Of Rob Findlay >> Sent: Tuesday, 2 February 2010 11:55 AM >> To: WAMUG Mailing List >> Subject: Re: Entourage bug >> >> The single fact that makes me recommend my clients not to use Entourage is >> that it keeps all it's data (mail, contacts, calendars) in a single >> monolithic data file. >> If you get a lot of email this file will quickly grow to multiple gigabytes. >> If you use Time Machine, have a 3 Gig Entourage file and you receive 1 >> email per hour, in 12 hours you will use 36 Gigs of space on it for >> instances of the Entourage database*. The modified date changes on the >> database and even if it was a 20k email the whole 3 Gig gets backed up again >> saturating your network connection for 20 minutes or so. If your database >> becomes damaged beyond reading and you don't have a backup you lose >> everything, I've seen this happen many times over the years. Apple Mail by >> contrast keeps individual emails so if you have 10 Gigs of email it gets >> backed up once but subsequent backups only add the new emails that have come >> in so they are a tiny fraction of the original backup in time & space. >> >> I weaned myself off Entourage a year or so ago after a long time addiction. >> Quite happy with the Mail, iCal, Address Book paradigm now. >> >> >> *yes I'm aware there are workarounds but they are workarounds and lots of my >> clients just want stuff that works out of the box. >> >> On 02/02/2010, at 11:18 AM, Crisp, Peter wrote: >> >> >> I wondered how long it would take for someone to suggest this “solution” – >> thanks John for raising this one. Having come from a Windows background, I >> find it hard to move to a program (Mail) that doesn’t have Contacts and >> Calendar functions integrated into the one app. Mail is just one part of >> daily activity and within Entourage (like MS Outlook) it is a nice >> integrated look and feel, not to mention logical, to have >> Mail/Calendar/Contacts integrated into one app. >> >> Can Mail/iCal/Contacts be managed in the same way? >> >> I am not 100% settled on Entourage and prepared to consider >> Mail/iCal/Contacts but it seems retrograde to use 3 apps for what one app >> can manage albeit with this bug. Maybe Microsoft will arrange a fix for this >> or maybe I’ll use the noted work-around (a la Time Machine Scheduler) for >> the temporary “solution” to my problem. >> >> Regards >> >> Peter….. >> >> From: wamug-ow...@wamug.org.au [mailto:wamug-ow...@wamug.org.au] On Behalf >> Of John Thompson >> Sent: Tuesday, 2 February 2010 9:20 AM >> To: WAMUG Mailing List >> Subject: Re: Entourage bug >> >> A very simple solution - ditch Entourage and use Mail. >> >> John Thompson >> On 02/02/2010, at 7:42 AM, Crisp, Peter wrote: >> >> >> >> Yes, Entourage is left running all day for the usual email correspondence >> that we all use, so quitting Entourage (and all other Microsoft apps) is not >> really practical – the back up starts whenever it likes to and maybe I could >> extend that to daily backups – timed to occur at 2AM – is that possible? >> >> Any advice on how I can escape the hang that comes when backup overlaps use >> of the Microsoft apps gratefully appreciated. >> >> Thanks for the link Ronni. >> >> Regards >> >> Peter.. >> From: wamug-ow...@wamug.org.au [mailto:wamug-ow...@wamug.org.au] On Behalf >> Of Severin Crisp >> Sent: Monday, 1 February 2010 10:48 PM >> To: WAMUG Mailing List >> Subject: Re: Entourage bug >> >> Interesting. I have Word and Excel from Office 2008 always running but have >> no problems with hourly Time Machine backups (Leopard). I do not use >> Entourage at all. >> Severin Crisp >> >> On 01/02/2010, at 9:20 PM, Ronda Brown wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Hi Peter, >> >> From Microsoft support you must quit all Microsoft Applications before >> backing up. >> "backing up hourly you must quit quit All Microsoft applications (Entourage, >> Word, Excel, PowerPoint, My Day, Office Reminders, Messenger) and the >> Microsoft Database daemon before backing up. See article Quit all Microsoft >> applications before backing up" >> >> <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2009/04/quit_all_microsoft_applications_before_backing_up.html> >> >> Also, force shutting down your your MacBook is NOT recommended. >> >> Sent from Ronni's iPhone >> >> On 01/02/2010, at 8:42 PM, "Crisp, Peter" <pcr...@hatch.com.au> wrote: >> >>> I have noticed what I believe is a bug in Entourage (Office 2008). I have a >>> Macbook 13” 1 month old so running Snow Leopard. I also have a Time >>> Capsule. When the hourly backup is running AND at the same time I attempt >>> to Attach a file to an email I am preparing, it all hangs up solid. >>> Option/Command/Escape allows me to crash Entourage which reports as “Not >>> Responding” but I have only been able to get back to ‘normal’ by a forced >>> crash by holding down the Power button and starting again. >>> >>> This seems a bit savage but I am not aware of a more elegant solution. >>> >>> Is this a bug that anyone else has noted and any tips for elegantly >>> restoring the balance without savagely crashing the machine and in turn >>> interrupting the backup as well? >>> >>> Kind Regards >>> >>> Peter… >>> >>> >>> >>> Kind Regards, >>> Peter Crisp, Associate, BE Mech >>> HATCH >>> (Phone + 61 8 9428 5437 >>> 2Fax + 61 8 9428 5555 >>> ÈMob 0402 001 019 >>> ?E-mail pcr...@hatch.com.au >>> Website <http://www.hatch.com.au/> >>> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> Unsubscribe - <mailto:wamug-unsubscr...@wamug.org.au>
