Hoi,
Technical considerations are imho less relevant. What trumps it is
functionality. Our maps have to be good everywhere and as far as I know OSM
is superior in places where there is profit to be made from maps.

Current maps world wide and historical maps are what we need. How would you
use the Apple maps for a map of the Ottoman empire?
Thanks,
      GerardM

On 21 March 2017 at 15:22, Dan Garry <dga...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hey Magnus,
>
> There are a few other factors to consider in addition to those listed. For
> example, development cost. Our maps tile service is not compatible with the
> iOS app out of the box. This isn't surprising; Apple wants you to use
> things like Apple Maps rather than your own solution. Android is, by its
> nature, a more open platform, so I am not too surprised that it was easier
> to integrate our tile server into the Android app than the iOS app. Sadly,
> it's not as simple as just switching over to OSM-based tiles; on the
> contrary, it's a significant amount of work.
>
> Now, using our tile service would also have required the iOS app to use the
> MapBox SDK. This is the size of all their other third party libraries
> combined, significantly increasing app download size. The size of your app
> can significantly reduce downloads [1]. Switch a single feature over to a
> different set of map tiles, and possibly decreasing downloads of the app,
> seems like a dangerous and counterintuitive tradeoff to me.
>
> So the question is, given all this, is switching over the nearby feature to
> use OSM-based tiles instead of Apple Maps worth it? In the long run, if
> these problems could be solved, I'd say it absolutely is worth it. But, in
> the short term, the work would take significant time and effort, and could
> actually decrease app usage by decreasing the app download rate; that
> tradeoff doesn't seem worth it to me.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> Disclaimers: These are my opinions only. I worked on the apps in the past,
> but haven't for two years; my statements about development costs may be
> wrong, and the apps folks may well disagree with me about things. I work in
> the department responsible for Wikimedia maps, but have only worked on the
> team working on maps for a couple of months.
>
> [1]: https://segment.com/blog/mobile-app-size-effect-on-downloads/
>
> On 15 March 2017 at 09:25, Magnus Manske <magnusman...@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Josh, all,
> >
> > I am not one hell-bent on "FOSS or death"; I tend to use whatever works
> > best.
> >
> > That said, the cost-benefit analysis of using Apple Maps seems to boil
> > down:
> > * Apple Maps has slightly better rendering (didn't check, but I assume)
> > * Apple Maps uses less mobile bandwidth
> > * Apple Maps is not free (as in freedom)
> >
> > Now, looking at these points:
> >
> > * Somewhat better quality is not an argument. If it were, we would have
> > stayed with Britannica, and skipped that whole Wikipedia nonsense.
> > Wikipedia became better, in part, because people actually used it, saw
> the
> > issues, and fixed them. And OSM rendering might be not quite en par with
> > Apple Maps, it is quite usable, in my experience.
> >
> > * Less bandwidth usage is not an argument either. I doubt we are talking
> > about a significant percentage of an average users' data volume here. If
> > Android users can afford the bandwidth, so can people who buy an iPhone
> > (source: used to have iPhone).
> >
> > * The price tag is the "non-freedom". As far as I can tell, this would be
> > the very first Wikimedia "product" that incorporates non-free technology
> > and data. It sets a precedence. It also has the potential to poison the
> > otherwise great relations between the Wikipedia, Wikidata, and OSM
> > community. It says "OSM is not good enough (at least for Apple users)"
> > quite plainly. How would we feel if OSM started to remove Wikidata tags
> and
> > replace them with Britannica links?
> >
> > All in all, IMHO, the cost is too high for the (at best) flimsy benefits.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Magnus
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:52 AM Joshua Minor <jmi...@wikimedia.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > My name is Josh Minor, and I am the Product Manager for the Wikipedia
> iOS
> > > app. I wanted to speak to a couple specific issues and
> misunderstandings
> > > raised by this email thread.
> > >
> > > First, please take a look at
> > > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Apps/Team/iOS/Maps_service
> > which
> > > provides some background on this decision. Jonatan linked to it, and it
> > > covers several of the concerns raised on the thread and gives our
> > > reasoning. I'd also suggest subscribing to this ticket:
> > > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T157763 which Jonatan filed, and
> where
> > > you can track efforts and issues with replacement maps.
> > >
> > > A few clarifying points:
> > >
> > > 1. The Places tab[1], and its use of Apple’s maps tiles, is not part of
> > the
> > > articles or article display, it is a navigational aid to help you find
> > > articles. This doesn’t mean it’s exempt from considerations raised
> here,
> > > but just want to clarify that this is not about editor created maps in
> > > projects, but rather an app-specific discovery mechanism.
> > >
> > > 2. The feature doesn’t violate our privacy policy[2] and was reviewed
> by
> > > Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department before entering beta. The App’s
> > > access to the users’ geolocation to recommend nearby articles, with the
> > > users’ explicit consent, is already part of both apps. The new feature
> > > merely adds a different way to visually view nearby articles - the user
> > > must, as before, still provide explicit consent for the App to access
> > their
> > > geolocation. Users can always turn on or off the provision of their
> > > geolocation via their iPhone location settings.
> > >
> > > The feature also makes requests to Apple’s map tile servers for display
> > on
> > > the App. These tiles may or may not be near the actual location of the
> > > user. It doesn’t involve sending Apple the articles you read or
> anything
> > > about your Wikipedia usage. Apple has public statements and
> documentation
> > > to explain[3] how their maps service preserves privacy by using a
> > > randomized and frequently changing device ID to request the maps, by
> not
> > > tracking users over time, and by not  building map usage profiles of
> > users.
> > > Overall, Apple’s data collection practices are governed by their
> privacy
> > > policy [4], which  users must agree to order to use their iPhones.
> > >
> > > We plan to further expand the explanation in the FAQ/privacy section of
> > the
> > > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Apps/Team/iOS/Maps_service
> page
> > > in
> > > the next day or so.
> > >
> > > 3. As stated by others on this thread, the issue at hand is the
> > feasibility
> > > and usability of a libre maps tile server, and impacts on users and how
> > it
> > > reflects (or doesn’t) the values of Wikimedians. The rest of the work
> on
> > > this feature (such as the time spent on search, visually clustering
> items
> > > on the map, a list view of nearby landmarks, and the Wikipedia article
> > > pins) will be applicable, independent of the map provider. In fact, I’d
> > > estimate the engineer doing the work spent more time on hacking to try
> to
> > > make a combination of MapBox and Wikimedia tiles work, than he did/will
> > on
> > > integrating/removing Apple maps.
> > >
> > > 4. This feature was announced on the Wikimedia Blog[5], described in an
> > > initial MediaWiki.org page[6], all work was documented and tracked on
> > > Phabricator (including an initial tech investigation, the request to
> > remove
> > > Apple Maps during development, and the overall feature[7]) and then the
> > > decision to push into beta with Apple Maps further documented on
> > > MediaWiki.org[8].
> > >
> > > In conclusion, I would like to thank you for the feedback and the
> > > opportunity to engage in a civil discussion about these important
> issues.
> > > Again, if you are interested in the next steps, I’d invite you to
> > subscribe
> > > and comment on the phab ticket https://phabricator.wikimedia.
> org/T157763
> > > or
> > > the MediaWiki.org page.
> > >
> > > [1] Design specification: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T130889
> > > [2]
> > > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Apps/Team/iOS/
> > Maps_service#Privacy
> > > [3] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203033,
> > > https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207056,
> > > http://www.apple.com/privacy/approach-to-privacy/
> > > [4] http://www.apple.com/privacy/privacy-policy/
> > > [5] https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/06/17/wikipedia-mobile/
> > > [6] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Apps/Team/iOS/Nearby
> > > [7] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/ios-app-feature-places/
> > > [8] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Apps/Team/iOS/
> Maps_service
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>
>
> --
> Dan Garry
> Lead Product Manager, Discovery
> Wikimedia Foundation
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