I like this! +1000!! On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 11:07 PM, Info WorldUniversity < i...@worlduniversityandschool.org> wrote:
> John and All, > > As a possible complement to this discussion, CC-4 MIT > OpenCourseWare-centric World University and School seeks to matriculate > students in all ~200 countries' official/main languages ( > https://wiki.worlduniversityandschool.org/wiki/Languages), and may > compensate them for work in a number of ways, including translation and > developing machine translation (and in all 7,099 living languages > eventually). > > World Univ. and Sch. donated ourselves to Wikidata in 2015 for > co-development, and got a new WUaS Miraheze Mediawiki last year in these > regards too. > > Cheers, Scott > - https://wiki.worlduniversityandschool.org/wiki/Nation_States > (each to become a major online University for free CC-4 OCW degrees) > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:49 PM, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > It is a long time since everyone on these projects were solely > volunteers. > > :) > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:40 PM, Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > Yes, and then there's always the question. If he's getting paid, why > > aren't > > > I? Why is he getting paid per word of article translated? Why am I not > > > getting paid per spamvertisement deleted or vandal blocked? Why am I > not > > > getting paid for closing discussions that it takes hours of reading > input > > > and considering all sides and getting rocks thrown at me no matter > what I > > > do? Is that not valuable to the project as well? > > > > > > If you want to pay anyone, you better start paying me. I'm okay with > the > > > idea of being a volunteer as long as everyone is a volunteer. But if > you > > > start paying some people and not me, we're going to have a problem. > > > > > > Todd > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 12:47 PM, Peter Southwood < > > > peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > > > > > > > Those who pay get to select what is translated. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] > On > > > > Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Béland > > > > Sent: 24 February 2018 16:55 > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation > > > > > > > > I think the request for such projects should come from the concerned > > > > language projects, same for the list of articles. If not, in my > simple > > > > opinion, it is a form of coloniasm again. > > > > > > > > Jean-Philippe Béland > > > > Vice President, Wikimedia Canada > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:40 AM John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Should have added that the remaining points are somewhat less > > > > > interesting in this context. Preloading a set of articles is a bad > > > > > idea, the translators should be able to chose for themselves. > > Articles > > > > > should also be pretty broad, not very narrow technical or medical, > ie > > > > > vertical articles, as the number of editors that can handle those > > will > > > > be pretty small. > > > > > > > > > > In particular: Do not believe you can turn a teanslator into a new > > > > editor! > > > > > You can although turn an existing editor into a translator. > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:34 PM, John Erling Blad < > jeb...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles > > > > > > are > > > > > >> extensively improved before being proposed for translation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that to much pressure on "quality" can easily kill the > > project. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made > efforts > > > > > > more > > > > > >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to see > > > > > >> that > > > > > tool > > > > > >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of > > > > > >> articles > > > > > that > > > > > >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also > > love > > > > > >> the tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Didn't mention ContentTranslation, but it should be pretty > obvious. > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our > partner > > > > > >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that > languages > > > > > >> in which their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, > > and > > > > > >> Italian there is often already at least some content on many of > > the > > > > > >> topics in question. > > > > > The > > > > > >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. > > And > > > > > >> for languages in which we have little content there are often > few > > > > > >> avaliable volunteers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used projects below 65k articles as an example, as the chance > of > > > > > > competing articles are pretty low. > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would > > > > > > require > > > > > >> significant checks and balances to make sure people are taking > the > > > > > >> work seriously and not simple using Google translate for the 70 > or > > > > > >> so > > > > > languages > > > > > >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a > > > > > >> second review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain > tests > > > > > >> to be accepted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'n my original email I wrote "verified good translators". It is > as > > > > > > simple as "Has the editor contributed other articles at the > > project?" > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 2:26 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> We learned a few things during the medical translation project > > > > > >> which started back in 2011: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all > articles > > > > > >> are extensively improved before being proposed for translation. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> 2) A lot of languages want "less" content than is present on EN > > WP. > > > > > >> Thus we moved to just improving and suggesting for translation > the > > > > > >> leads of the English articles. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made > > efforts > > > > > >> more efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to > > > > > >> see that > > > > > tool > > > > > >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of > > > > > >> articles > > > > > that > > > > > >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also > > love > > > > > >> the tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our > > partner > > > > > >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that > languages > > > > > >> in which their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, > > and > > > > > >> Italian there is often already at least some content on many of > > the > > > > > >> topics in question. > > > > > The > > > > > >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. > > And > > > > > >> for languages in which we have little content there are often > few > > > > > >> avaliable volunteers. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would > > > > > >> require significant checks and balances to make sure people are > > > > > >> taking the work seriously and not simple using Google translate > > for > > > > > >> the 70 or so > > > > > languages > > > > > >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a > > > > > >> second review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain > tests > > > > > >> to be accepted. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> 6) I hired a coordinator for the translation project for a > couple > > > > > >> of years. > > > > > >> The translators at TWB did not want to become Wikipedians or > learn > > > > > >> how > > > > > to > > > > > >> use our systems. The coordinator created account like TransSW001 > > > > > >> (one > > > > > for > > > > > >> each volunteer) and preloaded the article to be translated into > > > > > >> Content Translation. They than gave the volunteer translator the > > > > > >> user name and password to the account. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> 7) Were are we at now? There are currently just over 1,000 leads > > of > > > > > >> articles that have been improved and are ready for translation. > > > > > >> This includes articles on the 440 medications that are on the > WHO > > > > > >> Essential List. We have worked a bit in some 100 languages. The > > > > > >> efforts have resulted in more than 5 million works translated > and > > > > > >> integrated into different Wikipedias. The coordinator has > > > > > >> unfortunately moved on to his real job > > > > > of > > > > > >> teaching high school students. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> 8) The project continues but at a slower pace than before. The > > > > > Wikipedian > > > > > >> and retired orthopedic surgeon Subas Chandra Rout has basically > > > > > >> single handedly translated nearly all 1,000 leads into Odia a > > > > > >> language spoken > > > > > by > > > > > >> 40 million people in Eastern India. The amazing thing is that > for > > > > > >> many > > > > > of > > > > > >> these topics this is the first and only information online about > > it. > > > > > >> Google > > > > > >> translate does not even claim to work in this language. Our > > > > > >> partnerships with WMTW and medical school in Taipai continue to > > > > > >> translate into > > > > > Chinese. > > > > > >> There the students translate and than their translations are > > > > > >> reviewed by their profs before being posted. They translate in > > > > > >> groups using hackpad > > > > > to > > > > > >> make it more social. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I am currently working to re invigorate the project :-) James > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 5:51 AM, John Erling Blad > > > > > >> <jeb...@gmail.com> > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > This discussion is going to be fun! =D > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > A little more than seventy Wikipedia-projects has more than > 65k > > > > > >> articles, > > > > > >> > the remaining two hundred or so are pretty small. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > What if a base set of articles were opened for paid > translators? > > > > > >> > There > > > > > >> are > > > > > >> > several lists of such base sets. We have both the thousand > > > > > >> > articles > > > > > from > > > > > >> > "List of articles every Wikipedia should have"[1] and and the > > ten > > > > > >> thousand > > > > > >> > articles from the expanded list[2]. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Lets say verified good translators was paid about $0.01 per > word > > > > > (about > > > > > >> $1 > > > > > >> > for a 1k-article) for translating one of those articles into > > > > > >> > another language, with perhaps a higher pay for contributors > in > > > > > >> > high-cost countries. The pay would also have to be higher for > > > > > >> > languages that > > > > > lacks > > > > > >> > good translation tools. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > I believe this would be an _enabling_ activity for the > > > > > >> > communities, as without a base set of articles it won't be > > > > > >> > possible to build a > > > > > >> community at > > > > > >> > all. By not paying for new articles, and only translating > > > > > >> well-referenced > > > > > >> > articles, some of the disputes in the communities could be > > > avoided. > > > > > >> Perhaps > > > > > >> > we should also identify good source articles, that would be a > > > help. > > > > > >> > Translated articles should be above some minimum size, but > they > > > > > >> > does > > > > > not > > > > > >> > have to be full translations of the source article. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > A real problem is that our existing lists of good articles > other > > > > > >> projects > > > > > >> > should have is pretty much biased towards Western World, so > they > > > > > >> > need > > > > > a > > > > > >> lot > > > > > >> > of adjustments. Perhaps such a project would identify our > > inherit > > > > > bias? > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > [1] > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_ > > > > > >> > Wikipedia_should_have > > > > > >> > [2] > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_ > > > > > >> > Wikipedia_should_have/Expanded > > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: > > > > > >> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > >> > Unsubscribe: > > > > > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > > > , > > > > > >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > unsubscri > > > > > >> > be> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> -- > > > > > >> James Heilman > > > > > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik i/Wikimedia-l New messages to: > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > >> Unsubscribe: > > > > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > unsubscribe > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > --- > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > > > > http://www.avg.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > -- > > -- > - Scott MacLeod - Founder & President > - https://twitter.com/WorldUnivAndSch > - World University and School > - http://worlduniversityandschool.org > - http://scottmacleod.com > > - CC World University and School - like CC Wikipedia with best STEM-centric > CC OpenCourseWare - incorporated as a nonprofit university and school in > California, and is a U.S. 501 (c) (3) tax-exempt educational organization. > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
