Those who pay get to select what is translated. Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Béland Sent: 24 February 2018 16:55 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation
I think the request for such projects should come from the concerned language projects, same for the list of articles. If not, in my simple opinion, it is a form of coloniasm again. Jean-Philippe Béland Vice President, Wikimedia Canada On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 9:40 AM John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote: > Should have added that the remaining points are somewhat less > interesting in this context. Preloading a set of articles is a bad > idea, the translators should be able to chose for themselves. Articles > should also be pretty broad, not very narrow technical or medical, ie > vertical articles, as the number of editors that can handle those will be > pretty small. > > In particular: Do not believe you can turn a teanslator into a new editor! > You can although turn an existing editor into a translator. > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:34 PM, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles > > are > >> extensively improved before being proposed for translation. > > > > > > Note that to much pressure on "quality" can easily kill the project. > > > > 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made efforts > > more > >> efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to see > >> that > tool > >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of > >> articles > that > >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love > >> the tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects. > > > > > > Didn't mention ContentTranslation, but it should be pretty obvious. > > > > 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner > >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages > >> in which their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, and > >> Italian there is often already at least some content on many of the > >> topics in question. > The > >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. And > >> for languages in which we have little content there are often few > >> avaliable volunteers. > > > > > > I used projects below 65k articles as an example, as the chance of > > competing articles are pretty low. > > > > 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would > > require > >> significant checks and balances to make sure people are taking the > >> work seriously and not simple using Google translate for the 70 or > >> so > languages > >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a > >> second review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests > >> to be accepted. > > > > > > I'n my original email I wrote "verified good translators". It is as > > simple as "Has the editor contributed other articles at the project?" > > > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 2:26 PM, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> We learned a few things during the medical translation project > >> which started back in 2011: > >> > >> 1) You must start with high quality content and thus all articles > >> are extensively improved before being proposed for translation. > >> > >> 2) A lot of languages want "less" content than is present on EN WP. > >> Thus we moved to just improving and suggesting for translation the > >> leads of the English articles. > >> > >> 3) The "Content Translation" tool developed by the WMF made efforts > >> more efficient than handing around word documents. Would love to > >> see that > tool > >> improved further such as having it support specific lists of > >> articles > that > >> are deemed ready for translation by certain groups. Would also love > >> the tool to have tracking metrics for these types of projects. > >> > >> 4) We used volunteer translators mostly associated with our partner > >> Translators Without Borders. One issue we found was that languages > >> in which their are lots of translators such as French, Spanish, and > >> Italian there is often already at least some content on many of the > >> topics in question. > The > >> issue than becomes integration which needs an expert Wikipedia. And > >> for languages in which we have little content there are often few > >> avaliable volunteers. > >> > >> 5) With respect to "paying per word" the problem is this would > >> require significant checks and balances to make sure people are > >> taking the work seriously and not simple using Google translate for > >> the 70 or so > languages > >> in which it claims to work. We often had translations undergo a > >> second review and the volunteers at TWB have to pass certain tests > >> to be accepted. > >> > >> 6) I hired a coordinator for the translation project for a couple > >> of years. > >> The translators at TWB did not want to become Wikipedians or learn > >> how > to > >> use our systems. The coordinator created account like TransSW001 > >> (one > for > >> each volunteer) and preloaded the article to be translated into > >> Content Translation. They than gave the volunteer translator the > >> user name and password to the account. > >> > >> 7) Were are we at now? There are currently just over 1,000 leads of > >> articles that have been improved and are ready for translation. > >> This includes articles on the 440 medications that are on the WHO > >> Essential List. We have worked a bit in some 100 languages. The > >> efforts have resulted in more than 5 million works translated and > >> integrated into different Wikipedias. The coordinator has > >> unfortunately moved on to his real job > of > >> teaching high school students. > >> > >> 8) The project continues but at a slower pace than before. The > Wikipedian > >> and retired orthopedic surgeon Subas Chandra Rout has basically > >> single handedly translated nearly all 1,000 leads into Odia a > >> language spoken > by > >> 40 million people in Eastern India. The amazing thing is that for > >> many > of > >> these topics this is the first and only information online about it. > >> Google > >> translate does not even claim to work in this language. Our > >> partnerships with WMTW and medical school in Taipai continue to > >> translate into > Chinese. > >> There the students translate and than their translations are > >> reviewed by their profs before being posted. They translate in > >> groups using hackpad > to > >> make it more social. > >> > >> I am currently working to re invigorate the project :-) James > >> > >> On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 5:51 AM, John Erling Blad > >> <jeb...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > This discussion is going to be fun! =D > >> > > >> > A little more than seventy Wikipedia-projects has more than 65k > >> articles, > >> > the remaining two hundred or so are pretty small. > >> > > >> > What if a base set of articles were opened for paid translators? > >> > There > >> are > >> > several lists of such base sets. We have both the thousand > >> > articles > from > >> > "List of articles every Wikipedia should have"[1] and and the ten > >> thousand > >> > articles from the expanded list[2]. > >> > > >> > Lets say verified good translators was paid about $0.01 per word > (about > >> $1 > >> > for a 1k-article) for translating one of those articles into > >> > another language, with perhaps a higher pay for contributors in > >> > high-cost countries. The pay would also have to be higher for > >> > languages that > lacks > >> > good translation tools. > >> > > >> > I believe this would be an _enabling_ activity for the > >> > communities, as without a base set of articles it won't be > >> > possible to build a > >> community at > >> > all. By not paying for new articles, and only translating > >> well-referenced > >> > articles, some of the disputes in the communities could be avoided. > >> Perhaps > >> > we should also identify good source articles, that would be a help. > >> > Translated articles should be above some minimum size, but they > >> > does > not > >> > have to be full translations of the source article. > >> > > >> > A real problem is that our existing lists of good articles other > >> projects > >> > should have is pretty much biased towards Western World, so they > >> > need > a > >> lot > >> > of adjustments. Perhaps such a project would identify our inherit > bias? > >> > > >> > [1] > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_ > >> > Wikipedia_should_have > >> > [2] > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_every_ > >> > Wikipedia_should_have/Expanded > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: > >> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> > Unsubscribe: > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscri > >> > be> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> James Heilman > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik i/Wikimedia-l New messages to: > >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe > >> > > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
