Oh my Gosh Paulo, can you stop this dramma about yourself and your problem with everything is connected with WMF?
To others, please have respect for the both parts engaged in this sad story and do what Geert asked, stop discussing about this specific conflict publicly. If you want to talk more about harassment (in a generic way), then open another thread. Thank you, Camelia Il giorno ven 21 giu 2019 alle ore 16:05 Paulo Santos Perneta < paulospern...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > False accusation with the respective punishment, that is. If it was just a > false accusation I would not care that much about it, though I obviously > dislike being falsely accused. > > Paulo > > A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 15:01, Paulo Santos Perneta < > paulospern...@gmail.com> escreveu: > > > Hi Robert, > > > > I believe you will only keep that opinion until the day you would be > > subject to a false accusation by the WMF, without even knowing it, and > > having no way to defend yourself appeal. > > > > Everything is easy to talk about and have opinions while it is only > > happening to the others. Unfortunately it is not my case, and I know in > > first person how flawed the system is. > > > > Apart from the details of the case described by the OP, the almost total > > lack of due process is extremely worrying, especially to those who > already > > experimented it failing in first hand. > > > > Best, > > Paulo > > > > > > > > A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 14:43, Robert Fernandez < > > wikigamal...@gmail.com> escreveu: > > > >> At some point we have to decide who this movement and community is > >> for. Is it for popular individuals to act out in any way they please > >> and be awarded maximum freedom and lack of accountability? Or is it > >> so we can insure a friendly space for everyone, including those who > >> are not popular, who are not loud voices on community forums, who do > >> not want to be harassed or leered at or made uncomfortable? > >> > >> Everything is a tradeoff, and based on what I've seen I'll take the > >> lack of "due process" from trained and responsible professionals over > >> the popularity contests of the mob any day. > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 4:56 AM Paulo Santos Perneta > >> <paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > Taking everything and their dog as "harassment", without due process > to > >> > verify it, and issuing punishments one can't appeal based on that, > >> creates > >> > a feeling of fear and insecurity in the events; and provides a tool > >> easy to > >> > abuse by clever persons who understood how to game the system, as a > >> vehicle > >> > for severe harassment itself. > >> > > >> > This creates an unsafe and unfriendly space in the events,and should > >> really > >> > be looked at. > >> > > >> > Best, > >> > Paulo > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 06:57, Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < > >> > wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> escreveu: > >> > > >> > > First of all I don’t know the context of this conversation. I know > >> that I > >> > > personnally find that the actions of Trust& Safety very valuable > and > >> > > wise. I totally support and trust their judgement. > >> > > > >> > > I am tired of seing their work criticized, and do not appreciate > >> official > >> > > chapter representants and employees publicly supporting alleged > >> offenders, > >> > > showing no aknowledgement of the fact that this is very toxic for > >> alleged > >> > > victims, and does not help to change attitude towards issues of > >> > > harrassment. > >> > > > >> > > How can we feel safe in the movement if the decisions of T&S are > >> > > questionned by official members of our movement? > >> > > > >> > > Nattes à chat > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Le 21 juin 2019 à 01:04, Chris Keating <chriskeatingw...@gmail.com> > a > >> > > écrit : > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > >> It is extremely disappointing, and *extremely typical* of the > >> Wikimedia > >> > > >> movement, to see an entire thread like this dedicated to > supporting > >> > > someone > >> > > >> who Trust & Safety has found to have acted in such a way that > they > >> had > >> > > to > >> > > >> intervene. It is even more disappointing to see a person who was > >> > > affected > >> > > >> by his actions told "this is not your story" and "it may help you > >> when > >> > > you > >> > > >> grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the > >> > > >> feelings of others." > >> > > >> > >> > > >> If you're wondering why women leave the Wikimedia movement, and > why > >> > > >> Wikimedia has such a bad harassment problem in general, just > >> reflect on > >> > > >> this thread. > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Thank you, Molly, for expressing what I was just trying to summon > >> the > >> > > > energy to write. > >> > > > > >> > > > Chris > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> > > > Unsubscribe: > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > >> , > >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
