I would be interested in your experience.
__________________________________ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 We did test them. I would rather not share bad experiences on a public list. See you at ISPCON. -Matt On Nov 3, 2008, at 11:14 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: > Matt, > > What does that mean? Have you tested it? Was it good or bad? > > Travis > Microserv > > Matt Liotta wrote: >> >> There is already an SR3 card. I would HIGHLY suggest you test it >> throughly before deploying. >> >> -Matt >> >> On Nov 3, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: >> >> >>> That would be great... but is there a time frame? >>> >>> Travis >>> Microserv >>> >>> Mike Hammett wrote: >>> >>>> There are companies out there working on non-802.11 3.65 GHz >>>> systems that provide the same spectral efficiency as WiMAX, but >>>> without the WiMAX hype price tag. >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------- >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>> http://www.ics-il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Travis Johnson >>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:30 AM >>>> To: WISPA General List >>>> Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt, >>>> >>>> I agree. We are looking at the same thing... putting up some >>>> 3.65ghz AP's on our "bigger" towers and moving heavy usage >>>> customers to that. However, until base stations are less than $8k, >>>> the WiMax people can keep spending money on advertising, trade- >>>> shows, etc. telling us how great they are, I'm not going to buy. >>>> >>>> When you can buy a licensed microwave radio link for $8k (less >>>> antennas), and you know the company is making money, there is no >>>> reason 3.65ghz base stations have to be $8k+. >>>> >>>> Hopefully at some point, they will wake up and realize there is an >>>> entire market they are missing. >>>> >>>> Travis >>>> Microserv >>>> >>>> Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: >>>> I'm with Travis on this, with the exception of using StarOS instead >>>> of >>>> Mikrotik. It is nice to have a set of standard, mature tools such >>>> as >>>> radius, cbq/iptable rules and standard, non-vendor specific >>>> hardware to work with instead of having to use a limited, >>>> proprietary system limited to a single vendor. I've >>>> deployed/consulted on 802.11 a/b/g networks representing 8000+ CPE >>>> units and it can be made to work just fine as >>>> long as it is managed properly. Travis is a pro, and he has the >>>> experience to design his network in such a way as to maximize the >>>> performance of his equipment. There are many others out there >>>> having >>>> the same success. >>>> >>>> FWIW, I believe the most logical next step is to start moving heavy >>>> usage customers over to 3.65 WiMAX gear starting next spring. I >>>> think >>>> we are near the threshold of what is going to be possible with >>>> unlicensed equipment - barring some kind of amazing >>>> breakthrough. I >>>> foresee a need to deploy smaller and smaller cells to maintain the >>>> desired performance level. It helps to have 10mhz channel sizes >>>> available to maximize the utilization of existing spectrum, but >>>> even >>>> that is starting to get awfully crowded. Whitespaces sure would >>>> help. >>>> >>>> I spent the last two years putting up 802.11a based APs across my >>>> entire service area and migrating customers from 2.4 to them to get >>>> the higher >>>> ARPU from faster speeds and VOIP service. I foresee spending the >>>> next >>>> two years deploying licensed backhauls and 3.65 APs starting with >>>> the >>>> high traffic areas and working out to the fringes. Its the >>>> neverending >>>> story. >>>> >>>> Matt Larsen >>>> vistabeam.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Travis Johnson wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> We don't use DHCP. Every single customer gets a real, static IP >>>> address. >>>> We also a assign a static IP address to every radio (for >>>> management). >>>> >>>> When I posted the question a month ago about how to force an SM to >>>> connect to a specific AP on a tower, the only answer was "color >>>> code". >>>> This isn't really an option, as that means the installer has to >>>> change the color code in the field. All of our current radios are >>>> setup and ready to connect to ANY tower and ANY AP on that tower >>>> without the installer doing anything in the field. >>>> >>>> And how does first level tech support even find the correct radio >>>> in the AP list for a customer on the phone? They have to scroll >>>> through 160 people to find them by MAC address? >>>> >>>> Yes, Canopy is a slower radio in today's world. 14Mbps of total >>>> throughput on a 20mhz channel is SLOW. Using Mikrotik I can get >>>> 30Mbps (double the speed) on the same channel size. Or I can use a >>>> 10mhz channel and get 15Mbps. And all these speeds can be delivered >>>> via upload or download or any combination, I don't have to set a >>>> specific percentage of up/down. >>>> >>>> And how do you guarantee 7ms latency? What happens if a customer >>>> gets 8ms? And how do they test that measurement? And what happens >>>> when a customer completely clobbers an AP and 160 customers are >>>> getting 20ms latency? Or you have interference from a new provider >>>> and all those people get 100ms latency? >>>> >>>> Travis >>>> Microserv >>>> >>>> >>>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: >>>> >>>> All of the complaints are easily overcome with the proper >>>> management software, DHCP reservations etc. You can easily force >>>> the SM to connect to the exact AP you want a couple different ways. >>>> And there are several non motorola software packages that do this >>>> kind of stuff. We have 5000 subs on it and we don't break a sweat >>>> in managing any of this. >>>> >>>> We put 128-160 customers per AP and they all still get 10.2 Mbps >>>> burst. Slower radio? That seems pretty fast to me. >>>> And we guarantee latency to 7 mS. Hmmm, that is pretty hard to do >>>> with anyone else. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Travis Johnson >>>> To: WISPA General List >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 1:39 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers >>>> >>>> >>>> We've tried Canopy... twice in fact... once about 3 years ago, and >>>> once about a month ago. We just can't make it fit into our network >>>> management (IP database, Call tracking, customer management, etc.) >>>> system very well... having customer radios that change their LUID >>>> and IP address every time they register, having to set the >>>> bandwidth on each SM instead of the AP, having no security or ways >>>> to control which AP a customer connects to without having to buy >>>> their software, etc. >>>> >>>> All that, plus paying MORE for a slower radio than what we are >>>> using just didn't make sense. I can put up an AP (2.4ghz, 5.3ghz, >>>> 5.4ghz, or 5.8ghz) for less than $400 that will support 50 >>>> customers, using only 10mhz wide channels... and each CPE is less >>>> than $175 complete (including PoE, antenna). >>>> >>>> Canopy seems to work well for many people... but I've never been >>>> one to follow the "norm". And I get to put $50 in my pocket on >>>> every install, and $1,000 for every AP we put up. ;) >>>> >>>> Travis >>>> Microserv >>>> >>>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: >>>> Well that is a testimony to your quality of service for sure. >>>> Now, if you were using Canopy your customers would be even happier! >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 11:07 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers >>>> >>>> >>>> I have Qwest DSL, CableOne, another WISP (doing "up to 4meg" for >>>> $29.95 >>>> with Canopy), and a licensed WiMax (2.5ghz) provider (doing "up to >>>> 2meg", mobile, for $29.95). I have a lot of competition... and yet >>>> we have no sales people, no real advertising campaign, and more >>>> installs than we can keep up with each month. >>>> >>>> Travis >>>> Microserv >>>> >>>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: >>>> You must not have competitors. I have both Qwest and Comcast >>>> giving away multi megabit starting at $15.95 >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Travis Johnson >>>> To: WISPA General List >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:53 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers >>>> >>>> >>>> I guess that's my point... why offer more bandwidth than you have >>>> to? >>>> Most people don't need more than 1meg, and that's our most popular >>>> package for $39.95 per month (total, no modem rental fee, etc.). >>>> Why give >>>> away the farm if you don't have to? :) >>>> >>>> Travis >>>> Microserv >>>> >>>> RickG wrote: >>>> Wow, with all that bandwidth, I'm surprised you dont offer higher >>>> speeds. >>>> >>>> Technically speaking, the download & upload price is the same. >>>> From a >>>> cost standpoint, I allocate the download & upload separately >>>> because I am "forced" to pay dearly ($1200/month) to AT&T for my >>>> dual T1's which are required for "decent" upload speeds. Right now, >>>> my traffic is split so all port 80 traffic flows though the 4Mbps x >>>> 2Mbps connection through Time Warner which runs over $500/month. >>>> This works fairly well for now since about half the traffic is web >>>> browsing. When I bought this WISP there was no management, >>>> monitoring or reporting. I took care of the management & monitoring >>>> and I'm working on the reporting. >>>> The best thing I've done is replace the StarOS firewall with >>>> Mikrotik and set up traffic priority. >>>> Whew! Lots of work. At any rate, I'm working on my upstream >>>> connection next. I really need to get the cost down. >>>> >>>> Thanks! -RickG >>>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> wrote: >>>> Rick, >>>> >>>> Yes, all of our packages are symmetrical speeds (same download and >>>> upload). >>>> So if they buy our 512k package, they get 512k down x 512k up all >>>> the time. >>>> They are not "dedicated" connections, but rather you get what you >>>> pay for connections. We still oversubscribe users on an AP, but >>>> only to the point where each AP is running around 60% capacity >>>> during peak times, thus leaving room for bursts, etc. We graph and >>>> monitor every single AP (over 200 of >>>> them) and every single user (bandwidth, packets, RSSI, etc.) so we >>>> always know what's happening on our network. >>>> >>>> We currently have three full OC-3 (155Mbps) dedicated connections >>>> to the backbone. On average, we pay $40/meg for bandwidth. Why is >>>> your upload price different than your download price? >>>> >>>> Travis >>>> Microserv >>>> >>>> RickG wrote: >>>> >>>> Travis, >>>> >>>> Nice work! Therefore, you are selling dedicated bandwidth to all of >>>> your customers. In other words, if all your customers run speed >>>> test at the same time they will get what their plan allows. If you >>>> dont mind, I have a few questions: >>>> Is the above scenario true for upload speed as well as download >>>> speed? >>>> What are you paying for your upstream connection? >>>> What type of upstream connection do you have? >>>> >>>> I'd like to be there and I keep hoping cheap bandwidth comes my >>>> way. >>>> When you are paying $150/meg for download and $400/meg for upload, >>>> the business model is tough. >>>> >>>> -RickG >>>> >>>> BTW: I'd take this offlist if you prefer but I think this is a >>>> problem that many us us small WISP's face. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Every customer can get the speed they are paying for ANY time they >>>> run a speed test. We offer packages from 512k to 2.5meg for >>>> residential customers and they always get what they pay for >>>> (download AND upload, which is the same for all of our packages). >>>> >>>> Travis >>>> Microserv >>>> >>>> RickG wrote: >>>> >>>> Travis, >>>> >>>> If I understand this correctly, you have at least 1Mbps or higher >>>> of >>>> bandwidth for every customer? >>>> >>>> -RickG >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> We deliver what the customers pay for. If they purchase a 1Mbps >>>> package, >>>> they get 1Mbps 24x7 (with no monthly bit caps). Personally I have >>>> never >>>> liked the "up to" speed packages... it's like going to Walmart and >>>> buying milk. You can pay $3 for a full 1 gallon, or you can pay $2 >>>> for >>>> "up to" a gallon (without really knowing how much you are going to >>>> get, >>>> but it will be somewhere between nothing and a full gallon). >>>> >>>> Travis >>>> Microserv >>>> >>>> Kurt Fankhauser wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Does anyone else here have customer/s that consume so much >>>> bandwidth that >>>> you have to throttle them down after say 5 minutes of downloading. >>>> And >>>> what >>>> do you tell them when they start complaining about the throttled >>>> down >>>> speed. >>>> (they don't know your throttling them though) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Kurt Fankhauser >>>> WAVELINC >>>> P.O. Box 126 >>>> Bucyrus, OH 44820 >>>> 419-562-6405 >>>> www.wavelinc.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> -------------------- >>>> WISPA Wants You! 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