I understand that... but honestly I can only see rolling out 3 or 4 base stations in the next 12-18 months. Yet I imagine buying 500-600 CPE in that same time period. So does the price really go from $8k to less than $5k if I buy 3 units? ;)
Travis Microserv Jeff Booher wrote: > Travis, > > thats list pricing for a single base station. Airspan is around the same > price as well. Logic proceeds that they are much less in QTY. > > Jeff Booher > > Director of Sales, North America > www.apertonet.com <http://www.apertonet.com/> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 24/7: 206-455-4950 > > This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work > product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or > distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If > you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all > copies. > > _____ > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Travis Johnson > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:43 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 > > > Tranzeo and Aperto are operating in a partnership. Their base station was > around $8k when I checked about 30 days ago. > > Travis > > > Gino Villarini wrote: > > Tranzeo > > Airspan > > Vecima > > > > All 802.16d > > > > Gino A. Villarini > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. > > tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of Travis Johnson > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:15 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 > > > > Like? > > > > Gino Villarini wrote: > > > > There are some below $5k BSU solutions on the market > > > > > > > > Gino A. Villarini > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. > > tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Travis Johnson > > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:30 AM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 > > > > > > > > Matt, > > > > I agree. We are looking at the same thing... putting up some 3.65ghz > > AP's on our "bigger" towers and moving heavy usage customers to that. > > However, until base stations are less than $8k, the WiMax people can > > keep spending money on advertising, trade-shows, etc. telling us how > > great they are, I'm not going to buy. > > > > When you can buy a licensed microwave radio link for $8k (less > > antennas), and you know the company is making money, there is no > > > > reason > > > > 3.65ghz base stations have to be $8k+. > > > > Hopefully at some point, they will wake up and realize there is an > > entire market they are missing. > > > > Travis > > Microserv > > > > Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: > > > > I'm with Travis on this, with the exception of using StarOS instead of > > > > > > > > Mikrotik. It is nice to have a set of standard, mature tools such as > > > > > > > > radius, cbq/iptable rules and standard, non-vendor specific hardware > > > > to > > > > work with instead of having to use a limited, proprietary system > > > > limited > > > > to a single vendor. I've deployed/consulted on 802.11 a/b/g networks > > representing 8000+ CPE units and it can be made to work just fine as > > long as it is managed properly. Travis is a pro, and he has the > > experience to design his network in such a way as to maximize the > > performance of his equipment. There are many others out there having > > > > > > > > the same success. > > > > FWIW, I believe the most logical next step is to start moving heavy > > usage customers over to 3.65 WiMAX gear starting next spring. I > > > > think > > > > we are near the threshold of what is going to be possible with > > unlicensed equipment - barring some kind of amazing breakthrough. I > > foresee a need to deploy smaller and smaller cells to maintain the > > desired performance level. It helps to have 10mhz channel sizes > > available to maximize the utilization of existing spectrum, but even > > that is starting to get awfully crowded. Whitespaces sure would > > > > help. > > > > > > I spent the last two years putting up 802.11a based APs across my > > > > entire > > > > service area and migrating customers from 2.4 to them to get the > > > > higher > > > > ARPU from faster speeds and VOIP service. I foresee spending the > > > > next > > > > two years deploying licensed backhauls and 3.65 APs starting with the > > > > > > > > high traffic areas and working out to the fringes. Its the > > > > neverending > > > > story. > > > > Matt Larsen > > vistabeam.com > > > > > > > > Travis Johnson wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > We don't use DHCP. Every single customer gets a real, static IP > > address. > > We also a assign a static IP address to every radio (for > > management). > > > > When I posted the question a month ago about how to force an SM > > to > > connect to a specific AP on a tower, the only answer was "color > > code". > > This isn't really an option, as that means the installer has to > > change > > the color code in the field. All of our current radios are setup > > and > > ready to connect to ANY tower and ANY AP on that tower without > > the > > installer doing anything in the field. > > > > And how does first level tech support even find the correct > > radio in the > > AP list for a customer on the phone? They have to scroll through > > 160 > > people to find them by MAC address? > > > > Yes, Canopy is a slower radio in today's world. 14Mbps of total > > throughput on a 20mhz channel is SLOW. Using Mikrotik I can get > > 30Mbps > > (double the speed) on the same channel size. Or I can use a > > 10mhz > > channel and get 15Mbps. And all these speeds can be delivered > > via upload > > or download or any combination, I don't have to set a specific > > percentage of up/down. > > > > And how do you guarantee 7ms latency? What happens if a customer > > gets > > 8ms? And how do they test that measurement? And what happens > > when a > > customer completely clobbers an AP and 160 customers are getting > > 20ms > > latency? Or you have interference from a new provider and all > > those > > people get 100ms latency? > > > > Travis > > Microserv > > > > > > Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: > > > > > > > > All of the complaints are easily overcome with the > > proper management software, DHCP reservations etc. You can easily > > > > force > > > > the SM to connect to the exact AP you want a couple different ways. > > > > And > > > > there are several non motorola software packages that do this kind of > > stuff. We have 5000 subs on it and we don't break a sweat in managing > > any of this. > > > > We put 128-160 customers per AP and they all still get > > 10.2 Mbps burst. Slower radio? That seems pretty fast to me. > > And we guarantee latency to 7 mS. Hmmm, that is pretty > > hard to do with anyone else. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Travis Johnson > > To: WISPA General List > > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 1:39 PM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers > > > > > > We've tried Canopy... twice in fact... once about 3 > > years ago, and once about a month ago. We just can't make it fit into > > our network management (IP database, Call tracking, customer > > > > management, > > > > etc.) system very well... having customer radios that change their > > > > LUID > > > > and IP address every time they register, having to set the bandwidth > > > > on > > > > each SM instead of the AP, having no security or ways to control which > > AP a customer connects to without having to buy their software, etc. > > > > All that, plus paying MORE for a slower radio than > > what we are using just didn't make sense. I can put up an AP (2.4ghz, > > 5.3ghz, 5.4ghz, or 5.8ghz) for less than > > $400 that will support 50 customers, using only 10mhz > > wide channels... and each CPE is less than $175 complete (including > > > > PoE, > > > > antenna). > > > > Canopy seems to work well for many people... but I've > > never been one to follow the "norm". And I get to put $50 in my pocket > > on every install, and $1,000 for every AP we put up. ;) > > > > Travis > > Microserv > > > > Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: > > Well that is a testimony to your quality of service for > > sure. > > Now, if you were using Canopy your customers would be > > even happier! > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Travis Johnson" <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL > PROTECTED]> > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "WISPA General List" <mailto:[email protected]> > <[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> > > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 11:07 AM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers > > > > > > I have Qwest DSL, CableOne, another WISP (doing "up to > > 4meg" for $29.95 > > with Canopy), and a licensed WiMax (2.5ghz) provider > > (doing "up to > > 2meg", mobile, for $29.95). I have a lot of > > competition... and yet we > > have no sales people, no real advertising campaign, and > > more installs > > than we can keep up with each month. > > > > Travis > > Microserv > > > > Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: > > You must not have competitors. I have both Qwest > > and Comcast giving away > > multi megabit starting at $15.95 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Travis Johnson > > To: WISPA General List > > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers > > > > > > I guess that's my point... why offer more bandwidth > > than you have to? > > Most people don't need more than 1meg, and that's our > > most popular > > package for $39.95 per month (total, no modem rental > > fee, etc.). Why give > > away the farm if you don't have to? :) > > > > Travis > > Microserv > > > > RickG wrote: > > Wow, with all that bandwidth, I'm surprised you dont > > offer higher speeds. > > > > Technically speaking, the download & upload price is the > > same. From a > > cost standpoint, I allocate the download & upload > > separately because I > > am "forced" to pay dearly ($1200/month) to AT&T for my > > dual T1's which > > are required for "decent" upload speeds. Right now, my > > traffic is > > split so all port 80 traffic flows though the 4Mbps x > > 2Mbps connection > > through Time Warner which runs over $500/month. This > > works fairly well > > for now since about half the traffic is web browsing. > > When I bought > > this WISP there was no management, monitoring or > > reporting. I took > > care of the management & monitoring and I'm working on > > the reporting. > > The best thing I've done is replace the StarOS firewall > > with Mikrotik > > and set up traffic priority. > > Whew! Lots of work. At any rate, I'm working on my > > upstream connection > > next. I really need to get the cost down. > > > > Thanks! -RickG > > > > On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Travis Johnson > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rick, > > > > Yes, all of our packages are symmetrical speeds (same > > download and > > upload). > > So if they buy our 512k package, they get 512k down x > > 512k up all the > > time. > > They are not "dedicated" connections, but rather you get > > what you pay for > > connections. We still oversubscribe users on an AP, but > > only to the point > > where each AP is running around 60% capacity during peak > > times, thus > > leaving > > room for bursts, etc. We graph and monitor every single > > AP (over 200 of > > them) and every single user (bandwidth, packets, RSSI, > > etc.) so we always > > know what's happening on our network. > > > > We currently have three full OC-3 (155Mbps) dedicated > > connections to the > > backbone. On average, we pay $40/meg for bandwidth. Why > > is your upload > > price > > different than your download price? > > > > Travis > > Microserv > > > > RickG wrote: > > > > Travis, > > > > Nice work! Therefore, you are selling dedicated > > bandwidth to all of > > your customers. In other words, if all your customers > > run speed test > > at the same time they will get what their plan allows. > > If you dont > > mind, I have a few questions: > > Is the above scenario true for upload speed as well as > > download speed? > > What are you paying for your upstream connection? > > What type of upstream connection do you have? > > > > I'd like to be there and I keep hoping cheap bandwidth > > comes my way. > > When you are paying $150/meg for download and $400/meg > > for upload, the > > business model is tough. > > > > -RickG > > > > BTW: I'd take this offlist if you prefer but I think > > this is a problem > > that many us us small WISP's face. > > > > On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Travis Johnson > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Every customer can get the speed they are paying for ANY > > time they run a > > speed test. We offer packages from 512k to 2.5meg for > > residential > > customers > > and they always get what they pay for (download AND > > upload, which is the > > same for all of our packages). > > > > Travis > > Microserv > > > > RickG wrote: > > > > Travis, > > > > If I understand this correctly, you have at least 1Mbps > > or higher of > > bandwidth for every customer? > > > > -RickG > > > > On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Travis Johnson > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > We deliver what the customers pay for. If they purchase > > a 1Mbps package, > > they get 1Mbps 24x7 (with no monthly bit caps). > > Personally I have never > > liked the "up to" speed packages... it's like going to > > Walmart and > > buying milk. You can pay $3 for a full 1 gallon, or you > > can pay $2 for > > "up to" a gallon (without really knowing how much you > > are going to get, > > but it will be somewhere between nothing and a full > > gallon). > > > > Travis > > Microserv > > > > Kurt Fankhauser wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone else here have customer/s that consume so > > much bandwidth that > > you have to throttle them down after say 5 minutes of > > downloading. And > > what > > do you tell them when they start complaining about the > > throttled down > > speed. > > (they don't know your throttling them though) > > > > > > > > Kurt Fankhauser > > WAVELINC > > P.O. Box 126 > > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > > 419-562-6405 > > www.wavelinc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > -------------------- > > WISPA Wants You! 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