Again... Canopy is a very popular platform, I do not deny that. But I still feel there is no basis to your statement, or statistics that back up your original statement taht Canopy dominates the large provider market.
What about Tower Stream? Last I knew they were one of the largest Urban WISPs. They use Aperto. What about AirBand, they had some serious numbers at some time, one two occasions, I was aware of them buying Proxim at one point, then a lot of Alvarion later on. What about Prairie-I.net, one of the larger, I know they used alot of Trango at one point. What about Travis, one of the larger, He's bigtime Trango user. What about Matt Larson (now w/GAB), he had gotten pretty darn big, he was mostly Tranzeo and StarOS. What about Covad/Nextweb, to the beest of my knowledge they were NOT primarilly a Canopy shop. Sure, Canopy is emergencing as a company that is continueing to evolve in compatibility with WISP models to enable expansion to 20mbps and beyond. But to say Canopy owned the large player market is ludicris. You could argue Canopy was a preferred choice for many Muni plays, most all of which went bankrupt or shut down their networks, creating one of the largest availability stockpiles of second hand used product for WISPs to now buy at discount, compared to any other brand. I find it interesting that Alvarion and Trango still hold their value higher on Ebay. I'll also argue that what is considered preferred choice gear is a leap frog game. Ironically, I personally have been using some Canopy recently, because of a unique value proposition it offers for specific application on this given day. However, there are many new players, which very well may bring the next best product line to the market. A perfect example are new products like Redline, Aperto, Alvarion dominating the new 3650 markets. And the comment "are swapping out their Trango gear anyways.", that's a croc. If they are swapping them out, they are fools. Eight years later, my Trangos are as strong as the day they were installed. I'd actually argue the opposite of your comment. Alvarion always had the reputation as the choice for the larger VC funded companies that could afford the best. Canopy is more destined to be a preferred choice for "small operators." To Canopy's luck, Trango, the price and engineering leader, and favorite to many medium size providers, decided not to continue down the path to evolve PtMP solutions into the next generation 20-30mbps capacities, therefore leaving the door wide open for Canopy to work its way into winning business from smaller market providers. If a WISP wants 20mbps, and doesn't want to mess around with OEM style gear, its one of the solution left that can do it at near the same price point. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >I guess we need to define large... :-) > > You also need to look at the region I know best... for WISP's over say > 1000 > customers in the State of Colorado... only one WISP operational in say > 2006 > on had over 1000 customers and was using anything but Canopy... and now > they > are swapping out their Trango gear anyways. > > I think large for a WISP has to be at the 5000 sub or higher mark. I for > one can only think of three or four companies at that mark... and they all > use Canopy... > > Since I don't get out to the East coast... I know I can be very very wrong > :-) I should have put that disclaimer on that statement (so I apologize!) > > Daniel White > 3-dB Networks > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:43 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >> >> > the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a reason >> >> Canopy makes a real nice platform now, and some large companies may use >> Canopy.. But that comment is in no way true. >> >> I can name just as many large companies that deploy, Trango, Alvarion, >> StarOS, etc. >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:47 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >> >> >> > Steve, >> > >> > I think Mesa Networks former CEO (if your not familiar with our company >> we >> > are a spin off of Mesa Networks) Todd Bergstrom attributes part of our >> > success by leasing equipment early on as a WISP. He wrote an article >> here >> > about leasing that might change your mind. http://tinyurl.com/5uowsx >> > >> > Basically look at it this way. If you lease your equipment, it allows >> you >> > to build that next tower site, get customers installed, increase your >> > revenue. You end up paying more in the long run because of the >> interest, >> > but you may also save money by being able to buy in bulk from your >> vendor >> > instead of individual or 5 packs. Todd probably explains it better in >> the >> > article. >> > >> > Other than this, I've been racking my brains on things that another >> > WISP >> > can >> > replicate to expand... and the only thing I can think of is equipment >> > related... I know we couldn't have built our network using an >> 802.11a/b/g >> > solution (although our networks first couple hundred customers were on >> > KarlNet) because you hit an oversubscription on the AP really fast. We >> > had >> > many many AP's with 50+ customers... we would not have been successful >> > without timing and the ability to place so many customers on an AP. >> > Our >> > WISP almost failed back in 2002 (before I joined Mesa) because we hit >> the >> > limitations of the KarlNet system. My experiences with a Tranzeo >> network >> > in >> > 2006/2007 lead me to believe things really haven't changed that much >> (its >> > all still 802.11 and its hard to make significant improvements to it). >> So >> > while this is probably along the lines of rip out your network and >> > start >> > over... the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a reason. >> > >> > My 2 cents, take them for what they are worth (which 2 cents isn't >> > worth >> > much anymore) >> > >> > Daniel White >> > 3-dB Networks >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> On >> >> Behalf Of Steve Barnes >> >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:53 AM >> >> To: WISPA General List >> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >> >> >> >> I guess maybe I am old school but leasing the CPE just makes it so >> >> that >> >> the monthly fee has to pay the CPE cost instead of the install. You >> >> still have to pay for it. It may make cash flow easier but the ROI >> >> takes longer due to interest rates and labor dealing with lease Co. >> >> Can you help me with that one. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> On >> >> Behalf Of Travis Johnson >> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:45 PM >> >> To: WISPA General List >> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Honestly, the fastest way to grow is to lease your CPE. Then the >> install >> >> fee covers your cost on every install, and you aren't "upside down" on >> >> every new customer. >> >> >> >> Travis >> >> Microserv >> >> >> >> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: >> >> >> >> You are doing it. Just keep bootstrapping. Once you get 1000 >> >> subscribers >> >> things will be a bit better. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Steve Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >> >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:32 PM >> >> Subject: [WISPA] Client Speeds >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I have read many post on this list about how much bandwidth >> >> different >> >> WISP offer. I want to discuss that as well as the recommended >> >> equipment >> >> that is so often discussed on this list. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I am a startup. Little to no startup capital. I had to pinch >> >> each >> >> penny to get as much as possible out of it. My goal was to >> >> service the >> >> clients no one wanted in a county that had no Fiber or DSL other >> >> that >> >> what Verizon holds hostage. So now after 2 years I have 8 >> >> towers with >> >> 320 clients. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The service I offer is a $39.99 basic level 640k x 256k and a >> >> $59.99 Pro >> >> Level 1M x 512k. You guys are talking about 10Mb. If I turn >> >> off the >> >> speed control on AP's and let people play I don't get over 3.5M >> >> on any >> >> of them. ( 2.4 MT or StarOS, and Tranzeo CPE's) I use a StarOS >> >> Full >> >> Duplex Link to Backhaul to a Fiber connection that I Share cost >> >> of with >> >> another WISP my size. The investment I would have to make to >> >> achieve >> >> 10MB to each client is financially Impossible. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Surely some of you big guys out there have been in my shoes. >> >> What do >> >> you recommend a small WISP in my situation to do in the future. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Please don't start with the statement, "How you should have >> >> started you >> >> service". I was providing a solution. So this is what I have >> >> and I >> >> know of at least 6 other small WISP's on this list who are in >> >> the same >> >> boat. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> So BIG GUYS think back. How do I grow into new BROADBAND >> >> definition >> >> without rebuilding my network from the ground up. What is >> >> everyone >> >> charging and what does the client get for that price. Financing >> >> is not >> >> readily available and the Boss hopes to one day get some ROI. >> >> No >> >> Grants available and no big group wanting to invest or challenge >> >> Verizon. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Barnes >> >> >> >> RC-WiFi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> >> -------- >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> >> -------- >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >> >> >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> >> -------- >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> >> -------- >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >> >> >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> >> ------ >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> >> ------ >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >> >> >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------- >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> > http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> -------- >> > >> > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >> > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> > >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > >> > >> > -- >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG. >> > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.13/1826 - Release Date: >> 12/3/2008 >> > 9:34 AM >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------ >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------ >> >> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.13/1828 - Release Date: 12/4/2008 > 8:05 AM > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
