On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:54:11 -0800, mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Notice there is a complete absence of CHOOSING. To make sure of that I > would change the word DETERMINING in the third sentence to REALIZING or > ACCEPTING. I am deeply familiar with Zen, as a practitioner for more than 30 years. It is neither correct nor incorrect to state that if one "practices Zen" that one does not "make choices." As humans, we make choices, and practicing Zen is a choice. If we then choose to practice Zen, then our Zen Mind, and Zen Bones, follow that perspective, if we remain in that state of being. However, being human, means to drift in and out of states of varying consciousness..we must remind ourselves that the finger pointing at the moon is not the moon, and that the moon is actually unknown..the image of the moon on the retina is no more "real" than our sketch of the moon on paper. Yet, there is a world, even if only intuited, and we must find ways to function within it...the Zen approach is Buddhist at its foundation, so right thought, etc., is a starting point first, and not trying to force the world into a preconceived illusory set of rultes is the next step. We can agree that a door is just a series of info-packets and spinning electrons, etc., but it hurts to run into one, nonetheless. So, we refine our knowing of the world, moment by moment, until we begin to "ride the bicycle without thinking...without conscious choosing" and this gets us close to Zen for a bit. Then we "fall off the bike" and scratch our sore heads and try to get back on and ride again...hoping that we learned enough to understand what caused our fall and do not repeat the mistake. A lot of Zen is conveyed in far too mystical terms, I think...and yet, it cannot be explained, nor simplified to the point of absurdity... this is most correct. Both of us, I think are pointing at something we share in common to our experience, and seem to share a common foundation with...we must allow Zen to happen, we cannot force it...but we also cannot expect it to occur without some choices of our own day by day. Allowing the tea to taste great still requires that we brew it in some "right" fashion, even if you or I brew it by different methods! In the end, we each must be satisfied or enjoy the cup of tea that we end up with. When I use the word "choice" of choosing, I mean to suggest not the process of "choosing a specific act with the intent of making Zen occur" as that is silly, but I mean the aspects of the Eightfold Path, as I began with in my earlier post. I am also not trying to be doctrinaire or absolutist with that, only, again, suggesting a basis for developing a broader foundation that leads to "better results." What else can one do? :) Our own inner transoformation is gradual and often surprising. Zen does just happen, but it never happens to the person who has not cultivated the nature of Zen within his or her own mental garden first. The mental reminders are the gentle rain that allow the seeds of Zen to germinate and eventually blossom, seemingly without any "choice" or "action" of our own. But we have been instrumental in their creation, nonetheless. Really enjoyed the discussion, recently! Thank You! Zenbob -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
