I agree you don't have to be religious to be ethical. I know many atheist who 
are good people. But I also know many who are bad. Especially when they have 
power, which they use in a wrong way. What stops you from doing something 
'bad'? If nobody possibly notice me, should I steal the large sum of money that 
comes my way?

--- On Sun, 5/10/08, Endymion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: Endymion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Date: Sunday, 5 October, 2008, 4:21 AM

I know, I considered myself an atheist from about 1968-1983 and shock of 
shocks, I didn't rape a single person then. And believe it or not, I didn't 
murder anyone either. A LOT higher percentage of my atheist friends I would 
consider highly ethical or moral or whatever word de jour you want to use than 
of the theistic people I've known.


--- On Fri, 10/3/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] org <[EMAIL PROTECTED] org> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Date: Friday, October 3, 2008, 9:38 PM


If you need a purpose to guide your actions, or you need a promise of reward or 
threat of retribution to convince you not to kill, burn, steal, or rape, try 
Christianity or one of the many other religions that provide you with an 
external daddy that will tell you what to do and punish you if you don't.

If your request 'Please enlighten me.' was not just rhetorical, I suggest you 
begin by giving zen mediation (zazen) a try. There are any number of web sites 
which can instruct you one the basics, or better yet find a sangha (zen 
community) near you that has a qualified teacher.

Good luck on your practice...Bill! 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of 
Anthony Wu
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen

That sounds like materialism. When we die, we return to atoms and molecules.. 
Nothing else. No heaven and no hell. So we can kill, burn, steal, rape... No 
retrubution, no karma. What is the purpose of working hard on zen or others? 
Please enlighten me.


--- On Sat, 4/10/08, Al <actionheroes@> wrote:
From: Al <actionheroes@>
Subject: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Date: Saturday, 4 October, 2008, 2:14 AM
As we all get older, and some of us are a lot older, the question for 
me now is this: Does Zen give you everything you want? Are you willing 
to die sitting on a cushion just saying "this is it?" No Heaven for 
you? No Nirvana? No nothing? Just worms??

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