Anthony,
Not quite. What I'm saying is that consciousness and the material
world are identical. Consciousness is observer dependent perspectives
on the material world from the POV of particular observers and
events. Each of these consciousnesses is all that exists for the
particular observer (all is consciousness only). Our concept of a
material world is simply a cognitive construct of our consciousness,
however that construct seems consistent and sharable thus we may
assume it has an independent existence beyond our particular
consciousness though we of course can never actually confirm that
because we can never step outside of consciousness.
Not easy to explain or perhaps understand.
To address your questions: Replace Karma with causality. Karma has
moral implications that are unsubstantiated. Causality though does
exist and provides the rules which make our conscious perspectives
and material world view cognitive constructs consistent. Thus
causality does govern what happens in the world of forms.
As to when we die, the answer is that when you die your consciousness
stops and your body decays (my perspective). On the other hand I can
never experience death since death is the end of experience.
Hope that helps,
Edgar
On Oct 11, 2008, at 11:00 PM, Anthony Wu wrote:
Edgar,
Thank you.
You seem to say that the world is nothing but universal
consciousness. Material objects and all kinds of living beings are
just manifestations (contents) of the universal consciousness.
Maybe I am wrong, but that is an interesting philosophical discussion.
Whether or not it is relevant to zen, I would like to know the
practical aspects of your theory:
- Does karma work in the universal consciousness, or whatever you
call it?
- When we die, do we just merge into the universe and lose our
individual entities?
Regards,
Anthony
--- On Sun, 12/10/08, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Zen] consciousness
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 12 October, 2008, 7:46 AM
Anthony,
Well not quite. Personal consciousness is associated with material
beings and disappears with the dissolution of the material form.
However if you read my paper http://EdgarLOwen. com/HardProblem.
pdf you will see that my view is that everything, that is the
entire material world, is in fact the same experiential 'stuff' of
consciousness that is the same 'stuff' of human consciousness just
in a different form particular to the material it is associated
with. I.e. a human has human type contents in this consciousness
stuff and a molecule has molecule type contents of it. That's
probably not very clearly stated but the idea is that the
interaction of all matter with other matter amounts to matter's
experience of matter which is what the causal process of reality
that continually flows through the present moment with clock time
is. That same flow is experienced as human consciousness by humans,
and mouse consciousness by mice as the details, the contents of
consciousness, depend on the different biological and cognitive
structures of mice and men while the phenomenon of consciousness
itself as opposed to its details is common to both mice and men,
and in fact everything in the universe.
So the contents of consciousness will be different for each being
and the contents are the forms that arise in consciousness itself
which are illusion. Whereas consciousness itself, that in which the
contents of consciousness arise is the same for everything in the
universe. It is simply the physical reality of the present moment.
So tuning into the pure consciousness itself, devoid of its
contents, is Zen, or satori since the content forms which are the
veils of illusion are no longer present and do not distract from
consciousness itself.
But of course the contents do persist in the material world and so
the trick is to continually recognize these contents for what they
are, contents of pure consciousness, ripples or disturbances in the
field of consciousness itself, so that one doesn't get entangled in
the individual forms but always sees them as contents of the
underlying pure consciousness itself. The forms themselves have no
real substance since they are just ripples or disturbances in what
would be the perfect stillness of consciousness itself devoid of
any forms or ripples.
Hope that makes it a little clearer.
As to the OBE, I really haven't felt I had to explain it. It was
just something that happened. In my view it is a fundamental
mistake to think consciousness is located or centered in the
physical body, since everything we see and experience is actually
happening in our own head and the idea of an individual 'self' is
just a cognitive construct, so that cognitive construct can
subjectively locate its concept of observer anywhere it wants, at
least temporarily. In that view 'our' consciousness continually
pervades everything that we experience to its furtherest
boundaries. Since all that is experienced is consciousness,
consciousness must then be antecedent to the division between self
and not self.
Remember the furtherest boundaries of the horizon are simply our
retinas inside our eyes, and the whole world exists in the nigredo
of our brains (the black obsidian crystal ball which we wish to
turn into a perfectly clear crystal ball brain - unconsciousness
into consciousness) , but of course that means our eyes are the sky
and our consciousness in our brains pervades the entire universe.
Thus the Zen adage: "Awaken the mind, while dwelling nowhere."
Which means wake up and recognize that consciousness is not
centered anywhere but everywhere and transcends the distinction
between self and world.
Edgar
On Oct 11, 2008, at 5:58 PM, Anthony Wu wrote:
Hi Edgar,
I keep an open mind. In your view, does consciousness just
disappear, when we die?
You seemed to say you had an OBE in Japan. How do you explain that
based on science.
Regards,
Anthony
--- On Sun, 12/10/08, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED] net> wrote:
From: Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED] net>
Subject: Re: [Zen] consciousness
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com
Date: Sunday, 12 October, 2008, 3:23 AM
Thanks Margie,
Your comments or questions would be welcome.
Much appreciated,
Edgar
On Oct 11, 2008, at 9:55 AM, roloro1557 wrote:
Hi Edgar-
I am still reading HardProblem - I'm on page 10. So far it is
wonderful! :-)
Margie (roloro1557)
------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------
FROM: Over the hills and far away... . .
Don't be an observer of life. Be life. T'ao Shan
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